Total RP Pres. Texas votes 69,824 vs RP district14 Total votes 54,111

[ronpaulbillboards]

I was seeing conflicting total numbers that didn't represent the official numbers posted on the forums.

So we are to believe that Ron Paul had 54,111 combined Early and Election day votes for his district 14 Congressional race.

And 69,824 total votes in Texas for president?

This is a blatant travesty and I didn't think it would be this bad and in your face.
He always gets this consistent percentage and it is just a sham and there is no doubt. When you watch the votes come in live, how come there is always a consistent difference between Ron Paul and Huckabee during the whole night while the votes coming in. How can the number separating him from Huck stay the same while total votes are coming in the whole night. It's like a software fix that keeps his votes at a specific percentage as the votes come in no matter what. How come the votes aren't fluid, why do they come in with the same vote difference the whole night. I'm speculating but I just can't see how basically the poll numbers show that his district was the only place that voted for him and the rest of the counties like Austin where the largest base is look like nobody voted.

We passed a resolution in our precinct last night to abolish electronic voting machines for all Republican elections and replace it with paper ballots.

[AJ Antimony]

I've always wondered this too. I mean what I never understand is, you NEVER see a completely wild result when they report precinct #1. Like, when they first start posting results you've never seen Paul 25, Rudy 15, McCain 9, Romney 8, Huckabee 3.

Every single time they first post results with 0% reporting, it's always McCain 30, Romney 20, Huckabee 15, Paul 5 or something.

You'd think the numbers would radically change back and forth as numbers came in, yet they remain identical to the 0% report give or take 5 points max.

[VoteForRonPaul]

We passed a resolution in our precinct last night to abolish electronic voting machines for all Republican elections and replace it with paper ballots.
I hope this can go through, enough corruption!

[DFF]

*shakes head* No doubt about it. Vote fraud at it's finest.

[CoreyBowen999]

Could it be that his district only voted him in because he was incumbent?

[TruthAtLast]

don't you know.... no one lives in Texas outside of the 14th district. :D

[josh24601]

Could it be that his district only voted him in because he was incumbent?

No, because that would contain too much common sense and lack the requisite conspiracy theory to hold water on this forum. Try again.

[ronpaulbillboards]

I've always wondered this too. I mean what I never understand is, you NEVER see a completely wild result when they report precinct #1. Like, when they first start posting results you've never seen Paul 25, Rudy 15, McCain 9, Romney 8, Huckabee 3.

Every single time they first post results with 0% reporting, it's always McCain 30, Romney 20, Huckabee 15, Paul 5 or something.

You'd think the numbers would radically change back and forth as numbers came in, yet they remain identical to the 0% report give or take 5 points max.


don't you know.... no one lives in Texas outside of the 14th district. :D

The number difference is always the same from 0% to 100% the whole night when you watch it live. I have noticed this since Iowa and it is looks like a software code to me.

It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes that counts!

[syborius]

bump

[ronpaulbillboards]

This is the largest percent that he won in all his Congressional runs.
So why is his President numbers low.
Why were we so worried about Peden and his so called numbers stating that he was close to beating Dr. Paul.
The MSM was reporting Peden having large poll numbers and they were wrong again.
One thing I do know is that his district has a low number of Diebold electronic machines.

[TruthAtLast]

This is the largest percent that he won in all his Congressional runs.
So why is his President numbers low.
Why were we so worried about Peden and his so called numbers stating that he was close to beating Dr. Paul.
The MSM was reporting Peden having large poll numbers and they were wrong again.
One thing I do know is that his district has a low number of Diebold electronic machines.

there is another thread on this. Many believe that because there were no Democrats running against him, the Dems in District 14 voted (and partially saved) Ron Paul because he is better than the NEOCON Peden. Obviously these people wouldn't vote for Ron Paul for President.

[FSP-Rebel]

there is another thread on this. Many believe that because there were no Democrats running against him, the Dems in District 14 voted (and partially saved) Ron Paul because he is better than the NEOCON Peden. Obviously these people wouldn't vote for Ron Paul for President.
Maybe you're right, but I know in Mich's open primary you can only vote in one party--not go back and forth.

[ronpaulbillboards]

You can't vote for both parties in Texas, once they got a Republican ballot to vote for Paul in the Congressional vote they wouldn't be able to vote Democrat in the National vote. So for that reason I don't think that is happening, If you get a Republican ballot and vote that way, you are a registered Republican for 2 years and you can't vote for a Democrat in the national election in November. Why wouldn't they vote for Ron Paul for pres as well against McCain. I don't see people doing this against one Neo Con candidate and not for the other. And again they would forfeit their Democrat vote in November. I believe you have to vote for the same party when you vote in a primary. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Looking at the official numbers for Travis county (Austin)

So you are telling me that he only received 6905 votes for Austin!!!???

There are RP delegates popping up everywhere in precincts so I know the RP supporters were out in force voting. This is a travesty!

Look at these numbers yourself, just unbelievable.

http://www.co.travis.tx.us/county_clerk/election/20080304/files/RepCume.pdf

[jacmicwag]

Could be the party elite was worried Ron would go third party if he lost his seat.

[ronpaulbillboards]

Maybe you're right, but I know in Mich's open primary you can only vote in one party--not go back and forth.

You are right, so I don't see Democrats forfeiting their National vote for this but they didn't vote for him for Pres to do the same thing.

Also when I went caucusing last night the line for Democrats was well over 300 people deep. These Democrats are to wrapped up in the Clinton Obama show to be concerned with the Republicans. I almost didn't find the Rep. caucus location which was in a separate building outside in the cold and their were no signs and none of the organizers even said anything about it. I finally had to leave this Dem. line once I figured it out and go and hunt out the Rep. caucus location myself.
All 9 of the delegates selected in my precinct I can almost guarantee are all RP supporters. And this is the case in several precincts that I am aware of around the state. The next phase on March 29th will be interesting, there will be 200 delegates and 200 alternates selected. I'm sure RP delegates will make that cut as well.

[ronpaulbillboards]

Could be the party elite was worried Ron would go third party if he lost his seat.


This is too weird, why would it look this obvious :confused:

[DFF]

there is another thread on this. Many believe that because there were no Democrats running against him, the Dems in District 14 voted (and partially saved) Ron Paul because he is better than the NEOCON Peden. Obviously these people wouldn't vote for Ron Paul for President

This argument doesn't hold water. Ron Paul is wildly popular with people from both parties in Dist 14 because he saves them $$$'s like there's no tomorrow. So there's no way in Hell these numbers are legitimate. If you believe he got stomped out in his own district, with this sort of a disparity, you're living in the land of Oz.

[DFF]

This is too weird, why would it look this obvious :confused:

Because we live in a land of sheep and the powers that be know this. They know there won't be enough of an outcry from the people calling "Bullshit!" in order to justify not rigging the elections. So to them, the answer to the question of "Should we do it?" is a resounding "Yes!".

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

just so you know....

total District 14 presidential votes = 9071
total Harris county (ALL OF HOUSTON!!!) presidential votes = 9134

wtf?

[Catatonic]

I've always wondered this too. I mean what I never understand is, you NEVER see a completely wild result when they report precinct #1. Like, when they first start posting results you've never seen Paul 25, Rudy 15, McCain 9, Romney 8, Huckabee 3.

Every single time they first post results with 0% reporting, it's always McCain 30, Romney 20, Huckabee 15, Paul 5 or something.

You'd think the numbers would radically change back and forth as numbers came in, yet they remain identical to the 0% report give or take 5 points max.

There was a long thread a few months ago made mostly by people who claimed to be programmers discussing how the way the results play out looks extremely similar to a computer program.

I'm no programmer but I hope people understand the extremely unlikely odds of the results maintaining roughly the same percentage for even 1 candidate through the entire count.

And then I hope they remember all the cases of media reporting the results with 0 or 1% reporting.

[TruthAtLast]

This argument doesn't hold water. Ron Paul is wildly popular with people from both parties in Dist 14 because he saves them $$$'s like there's no tomorrow. So there's no way in Hell these numbers are legitimate. If you believe he got stomped out in his own district, with this sort of a disparity, you're living in the land of Oz.

lol don't kill the messenger. I'm just repeating what people are saying in the other thread. I don't know the particualar rules in Texas.

[ronpaulbillboards]

I have contacts with the local vote rescue office so hopefully some info will come out about these results. These results need to be scrutinized and analyzed with graphs and probability and statistic charts. We need some professional individuals looking at this as well as the voting irregularities. This should be written about and plastered all over the net. I could probably count 6900 stickers, signs, shirts and billboards in Austin, there were at least 5000 at the rally at UT last week. This can't be right for Austin, 6905 votes which represents 10% of the total for Texas. How come the numbers look so fixed by percents and ratios.

[d03boy]

Maybe they thought he would be good for congress but bad as president? Not to mention supporting your party... someone (you) should look into this but I don't personally think it's that far off

[alaric]

I was seeing conflicting total numbers that didn't represent the official numbers posted on the forums.

So we are to believe that Ron Paul had 54,111 combined Early and Election day votes for his district 14 Congressional race.

And 69,824 total votes in Texas for president?

This is a blatant travesty and I didn't think it would be this bad and in your face.
He always gets this consistent percentage and it is just a sham and there is no doubt. When you watch the votes come in live, how come there is always a consistent difference between Ron Paul and Huckabee during the whole night while the votes coming in. How can the number separating him from Huck stay the same while total votes are coming in the whole night. It's like a software fix that keeps his votes at a specific percentage as the votes come in no matter what. How come the votes aren't fluid, why do they come in with the same vote difference the whole night. I'm speculating but I just can't see how basically the poll numbers show that his district was the only place that voted for him and the rest of the counties like Austin where the largest base is look like nobody voted.

We passed a resolution in our precinct last night to abolish electronic voting machines for all Republican elections and replace it with paper ballots.

If this isn't proof of votefraud, I don't know what is!:eek:

[alaric]

Maybe they thought he would be good for congress but bad as president? Not to mention supporting your party... someone (you) should look into this but I don't personally think it's that far off

that might be true of some turd like hitlery, but not with a real American like Ron!:cool:

[syborius]

I have contacts with the local vote rescue office so hopefully some info will come out about these results. These results need to be scrutinized and analyzed with graphs and probability and statistic charts. We need some professional individuals looking at this as well as the voting irregularities. This should be written about and plastered all over the net. I could probably count 6900 stickers, signs, shirts and billboards in Austin, there were at least 5000 at the rally at UT last week. This can't be right for Austin, 6905 votes which represents 10% of the total for Texas. How come the numbers look so fixed by percents and ratios.


Thank You!! I'm ready to strangle some of the shills in the other threads that so fervently want to hush this up, say it's normal, and persuade others to do the same.

[Agent CSL]

As I said in another thread, it's rather odd, the vote discrepancies and I would love to see an investigation into this (or any other state for that matter).

[alaric]

As I said in another thread, it's rather odd, the vote discrepancies and I would love to see an investigation into this (or any other state for that matter).
here's another anomoly:
Ron Paul in Texas.....
Body: They want us to believe that McCain won Texas in a landslide. A place where I have never heard anyone mention his name, never seen so much as a bumper sticker, and clearly a state that is covered by Ron Paul signs. Just for the sake of discussion let's say it's possible. What I find seriously hard to believe is this:

* Ron Paul got 70% of the vote in his district for Congress---- -37,220 votes.

* In that same district they want us to believe he only got 6,697 votes for president.

* That equates to approximately ONLY 1 in 5 people that voted for him for Congress supported him for President. They can't be serious. Don't lie to me!!


Please don't take my word for it. Look at the numbers yourself.

Congressional District 14 Results -

http://enr.sos. state.tx. us/enr/mar04_ 135_race4. htm

Presidential Race District 14 Results -

http://enr.sos. state.tx. us/enr/mar04_ 135_race64. htm


Please pass it on. Our votes are not counted people. Restore the Republic!
Ron Paul 2008, the Revolution has begun!

[DFF]

Something has to be done. Our elections are being stolen right in front of our eyes. But what can we legally do? I know www.blackboxvoting.org and www.devvy.com are both whistle blowers and investigate incidents of vote fraud. Maybe we should contact them?

[syborius]

Something has to be done. Our elections are being stolen right in front of our eyes. But what can we legally do? I know www.blackboxvoting.org and www.devvy.com are both whistle blowers and investigate incidents of vote fraud. Maybe we should contact them?

I believe someone from the boards already has about this. I'm sure they are already well aware of this.

[NerveShocker]

It's fixed man.. what can ya do? Just get the word out keep fighting people are awakening nobody knows how many are truly in this revolution. Remember the revolution will not be televised. Matter of fact throw your television out the damn window it's the biggest instrument of manipulation ever know to man. Stick to the internet at least it's still free, for the time being.

[alaric]

Here is a suggestion from my friend John in Minnesota:
Would it be possible to do a door to door canvas of his district.
Ask the person who answers the door: "Did you vote in the primary?".
If yes, hand them a slip on a clipboard with the candidates names on it
and ask them to mark the box beside the name of the person they voted
for, fold the slip and put it in a sealed ballot box.
Did anyone else in your house vote? Would they also please mark a
ballot and drop it in the box.
If that person is not available ask if they know who they voted for, and
would they also mark a ballot for that person and put it in the box..

That is one way to blow the bull manure out of that district.

Better get all the permits needed to do a door to door solicitation.

John

[hyoomen]

I think the difference in results reflects Congressman Paul's interest in holding one position over the other. If he'd truly wanted the Presidency as he truly wanted to defeat Chris Peden, we'd have seen much better numbers nationwide.

[Publius Freeman]

Notice the "bone" that Ron Paul gets in most state primaries is 5% or 7%....

The difference between district 14 votes and total TX state votes for RP is stated as only 15,713 votes (= 69,824 - 54,111)...

There is *NO WAY* that is accurate. Not in Texas. (Not that vote rigging is new to TX, or any other state...now it's just more scalable...)

Steve Forbes won the AZ primary out of the blue in the 90's, and he didn't even have the broad support or political experience that RP has in his own Lone Star State of TX - yet Forbes won. (Of course, that was before electronic voting)...

IMHO, these Republican Presidential Primary Elections are being essentially stolen from Ron Paul, all the way back to the NH primary, and the electronic voting machines are the main culprit. Look at the caucus states for comparison.

Rather than just going door to door trying to recreate the vote with ballots (not a bad idea, btw), among other things, we the People need to get signatures on the petitions to restore publicly counted paper ballots (download petitions at http://www.voterescue.org), and action taken at the county and state level. Otherwise, this scourge will continue to persist with the goal of turning America into a "voting" dictatorship of the few over the many...

92% of Americans (Zogby poll) have expressed some sort of distrust in electronic voting. These signatures are easy to get. We got over 100 yesterday at one polling place alone...

Tyranny is not an option.

"[Voting] is the right upon which all other rights depend." - Thomas Paine


RP2008!

[syborius]

I think the difference in results reflects Congressman Paul's interest in holding one position over the other. If he'd truly wanted the Presidency as he truly wanted to defeat Chris Peden, we'd have seen much better numbers nationwide.

You should stop before you hurt yourself.

[Primbs]

For a congressman, Ron Paul has waged a large campaign. Plus he has some positions that are new to people and sometimes it can take more than one campaign to convince voters that his positions are correct.

[hyoomen]

You should stop before you hurt yourself.

So you disagree? He, himself, has said in speeches that he was/is in a reluctant bid for the Presidency, but that his supporters push him onward each day. If he'd had the same sort of reluctance about running for Congress again this year, you'd probably have seen him defeated by Peden.

You could also suggest that the media's attempts to discredit him were on a nationwide basis rather than a local basis, but obviously his district isn't oblivious to what is going on in the nation. They want him as a Congressional official but they don't think his values are right for President?

[Anyeong]

Yes. There is definitely something fishy going on. And every minute that passes by without this being solved irritates the hell out of me.

[Laja]

bump

[syborius]

So you disagree? He, himself, has said in speeches that he was/is in a reluctant bid for the Presidency, but that his supporters push him onward each day. If he'd had the same sort of reluctance about running for Congress again this year, you'd probably have seen him defeated by Peden.

You could also suggest that the media's attempts to discredit him were on a nationwide basis rather than a local basis, but obviously his district isn't oblivious to what is going on in the nation. They want him as a Congressional official but they don't think his values are right for President?

How often do you go fishing for, say...hmmm bass is it, no no, thats not your favourite, I think yours is "red herring".

[Agent CSL]

Bump

[Highstreet]

Notice the "bone" that Ron Paul gets in most state primaries is 5% or 7%....

The difference between district 14 votes and total TX state votes for RP is stated as only 15,713 votes (= 69,824 - 54,111)...

There is *NO WAY* that is accurate. Not in Texas. (Not that vote rigging is new to TX, or any other state...now it's just more scalable...)

Steve Forbes won the AZ primary out of the blue in the 90's, and he didn't even have the broad support or political experience that RP has in his own Lone Star State of TX - yet Forbes won. (Of course, that was before electronic voting)...

IMHO, these Republican Presidential Primary Elections are being essentially stolen from Ron Paul, all the way back to the NH primary, and the electronic voting machines are the main culprit. Look at the caucus states for comparison.

Rather than just going door to door trying to recreate the vote with ballots (not a bad idea, btw), among other things, we the People need to get signatures on the petitions to restore publicly counted paper ballots (download petitions at http://www.voterescue.org), and action taken at the county and state level. Otherwise, this scourge will continue to persist with the goal of turning America into a "voting" dictatorship of the few over the many...


Why don't we ask HQ to HIRE an Exit poll company for random districts, and especially those that have high support for Paul?

This would have been the easiest and cheapest way to verify it in this specific case, where we know he had HIGH support.

[syborius]

it's not a bad idea, I don't know why it hasn't be done, but why not just organize a polling system by the grassroots. We have precinct captains, and vote observers, why not have exit poll captains, something I suggested before.

[constituent]

How often do you go fishing for, say...hmmm bass is it, no no, thats not your favourite, I think yours is "red herring".

i disagree with you strongly, and partially agree w/ the individual you are seeking to antagonize.

do you have something to say that might refute his claims, or are you just going to shout "troll" and "red herring?"

[SteveMartin]

Our HQ has never been interested in winning. That is now amply clear to anyone who has followed them from the beginning.

We have precincts all over the country where RP's name was crossed off the ballot and where election officials told people RP had dropped out and they could not vote for them. Absolute proof in the form of documents and photos was sent to Joe Becker by registered mail and he has done NOTHING.

I'd like to believe they would say/do something about this obvious and blatant vote fraud in Texas, but they won't. They are not on our side.

[Phantom]

Bump!

[syborius]

Our HQ has never been interested in winning. That is now amply clear to anyone who has followed them from the beginning.

We have precincts all over the country where RP's name was crossed off the ballot and where election officials told people RP had dropped out and they could not vote for them. Absolute proof in the form of documents and photos was sent to Joe Becker by registered mail and he has done NOTHING.

I'd like to believe they would say/do something about this obvious and blatant vote fraud in Texas, but they won't. They are not on our side.


That is probably the case, but you still have knuckle heads here that refuse to acknowledge that vote fraud exists even when the statistical anomaly is so blatant it fly's in the face of all probability.

[SteveMartin]

The math doesn't lie, even if the morons do.

[syborius]

i disagree with you strongly, and partially agree w/ the individual you are seeking to antagonize.

do you have something to say that might refute his claims, or are you just going to shout "troll" and "red herring?"

You should look up what red herring actually means. This is not a question about where RP's focus is, was, or had been or HQ incompetence for that matter, the question is about probability and statical anomaly which that person completely failed to address, or maybe doesn't understand the significance of, which is exactly what this whole freakin thread is about.

[SteveMartin]

Let's not let the "HQ incompetence" theory get started....it's worse than that...

[SteveMartin]

This is the most important thread ever posted on any Ron Paul message board anywhere. We need to find out why HQ won't even comment on blatant vote fraud (even though RP himself did in an indirect way in that nearby thread about his most recent statement).

If the grassroots can FORCE the people in Arlington to do their jobs on this ONE ISSUE, we can accomplish something yet and WIN THE WHITE HOUSE--with or without them. If they refuse to acknowlegde this, we will KNOW the truth about what really happened there, and RP will eventually take action.

[golfboy]

i wonder if we will play the voter fraud card at some point in the future?

This is something the grassroots or a PAC should be working on though.

[SteveMartin]

It is something Arlington HQ better be working on, or they are traitors--pure and simple.

It is something the RNC (and TPTB generally) better be hoping they aren't working on.

Meanwhile, the rest of us need to organize our own analysis effort, and not wait for anybody in Arlington.

[SteveMartin]

bump

[SteveMartin]

bump

[Tedhunter]

bump

[nc4rp]

think about it, what is the single most important aspect of waging a vote fraud?

its the consistent numbers to manipulate public perception.

This was the illuminati's Rosetta stone. Polls = 5-7% votes = 5-7% across the board mostly (ala cell phone and internal diebold modem-chip?)

The reason this is the single most important aspect is that it prevents mass awareness of the fraud and circumvents a national inquiry/revolt.

with the constant numbers people (millions and millions of people) will say "well the votes matched the polls and Ron Paul is too libertarian for the GoP blah blah"

So the illuminati dont care how hard we fight, how right we are, how deserving the country is, etc as long as they maintain control and prevent mass revolt.

their manipulation of public perception through media and vote hacking has insured then against a public revolt on a mass scale. and leaves Paul supporters kind of disorganized without the resources to fight the CFR.

Ill wager that the stealing of this election was so simple and elementary to them, and we havnt a clue or resource to fight it (except Albert Howard is STILL fighting in NH. he was our one saving grace but they had a trillion $ to manipulate NH vote with Hoppy and Butch etc)

So were working from underneath the plane of this election and working upwards.

The CFR is working from above with Trillions of dollars and just throwing money into every crook's hands that can hack the election (and into every law enforcement pyramid) Its easy for them to throw around trillions$ and with these OLD alliances they have built up since the corperate gangs took over.

for us its hard, tryiong to scrape up $25 to send to Paul, and still have money to pay the electric bill.

We are like a ford escort racing a lamborghini.

CFR/trilateral/fremasons/illuminati/etc has its fangs sunk so deep into the nation; we are fooling ourselves if we think we can bowl over the tide. im not saying give up, but DO NOT expect a fair fight. in fact expect to be racing a lamborghini in your ford escort running on 3 cylinders.


PS in my precinct we had 8 delegate slots. 5 people showed up. 3 became delegates. 2 of those were Ron Paul delegates. So i dont for one second beleive that Mcain has the delegates they say he does. (thats part of the manipulation of public perception though) See yall in Minnesota September 1st.

and what happens when mcain delegates dont show up and all our alternates get the slots?

THEN we get to give the speeches to the PEOPLE at the Convention. I think thats the cross-point at which Lincoln won. (Paul a long long long-shot? sure. but thats nothing new)

[rancher89]

think about it, what is the single most important aspect of waging a vote fraud?

its the consistent numbers to manipulate public perception.

This was the illuminati's Rosetta stone. Polls = 5-7% votes = 5-7% across the board mostly (ala cell phone and internal diebold modem-chip?)

The reason this is the single most important aspect is that it prevents mass awareness of the fraud and circumvents a national inquiry/revolt.

with the constant numbers people (millions and millions of people) will say "well the votes matched the polls and Ron Paul is too libertarian for the GoP blah blah"

So the illuminati dont care how hard we fight, how right we are, how deserving the country is, etc as long as they maintain control and prevent mass revolt.

their manipulation of public perception through media and vote hacking has insured then against a public revolt on a mass scale. and leaves Paul supporters kind of disorganized without the resources to fight the CFR.

Ill wager that the stealing of this election was so simple and elementary to them, and we havnt a clue or resource to fight it (except Albert Howard is STILL fighting in NH. he was our one saving grace but they had a trillion $ to manipulate NH vote with Hoppy and Butch etc)

So were working from underneath the plane of this election and working upwards.

The CFR is working from above with Trillions of dollars and just throwing money into every crook's hands that can hack the election (and into every law enforcement pyramid) Its easy for them to throw around trillions$ and with these OLD alliances they have built up since the corperate gangs took over.

for us its hard, tryiong to scrape up $25 to send to Paul, and still have money to pay the electric bill.

We are like a ford escort racing a lamborghini.

CFR/trilateral/fremasons/illuminati/etc has its fangs sunk so deep into the nation; we are fooling ourselves if we think we can bowl over the tide. im not saying give up, but DO NOT expect a fair fight. in fact expect to be racing a lamborghini in your ford escort running on 3 cylinders.


PS in my precinct we had 8 delegate slots. 5 people showed up. 3 became delegates. 2 of those were Ron Paul delegates. So i dont for one second beleive that Mcain has the delegates they say he does. (thats part of the manipulation of public perception though) See yall in Minnesota September 1st.

and what happens when mcain delegates dont show up and all our alternates get the slots?

THEN we get to give the speeches to the PEOPLE at the Convention. I think thats the cross-point at which Lincoln won. (Paul a long long long-shot? sure. but thats nothing new)

I'm with you 100% See you in Minnesota!!

[SteveMartin]

There will be people at the national convention saying they are McCain delegates who aren't even from the United States. Count on it.

They make the rules and break them at their whim and pleasure.

[SteveMartin]

From: "Virginia Brooks" <vareforms1@bright.net>
Date: March 6, 2008 8:28:41 AM EST
To: <vareforms1@bright.net>
Subject: VERY important: Forwarded: Numbers don't add up in Texas...








Of course it is fraud, no other answer to this, when you read about Ron Paul's own district in Tx....Virginia


(I am forwarding to all CD captains, and as many Ohio groups as possible):


Very Important on this thread: so keep the thread moving through the groups.


_I had a Gentleman call me when I got Home from the Kent Meeting last night from New York. _


He happens to be publishing a book with photos of all of the 2004 Election Fraud Evidence, that was supposed to be published by a company in Kent State? He literally has the photographs of burned and otherwise mutilated, destroyed ballots. He is very familiar with how to follow the fraud, due to his research in the book. I would call him an investigative Journalist, in Election Fraud.
I don't know him from Adam.
_He called me last night, from New York, upset about huge numbers of precincts in Texas, where there were thousands of registered voters, and ZERO votes at all, with 100 of the Precincts reporting in_.
He repeated so I understood.
He is saying there are precincts with over 2000 registered voters, and the official count is saying NO one voted at all in that precinct after the precinct has reported in officially!!
He said he has been studying elections now, for years. He has NEVER seen anything like this.
He said the number of zero precincts, are especially High in the Panhandle of Texas.
He also mentioned what Ron here is saying in this post.
Ron Paul got more votes in his precinct for Congressman, than he did for president in the same precinct. He said, by huge amounts.
Even More important, and possibly something we can all do to help... with this Ron Paul Fraud.


This investigative Journalist is just about to publish the research on the fraud, and now, the company that was going to print with his book, has suddenly pulled out, and refusing to publish.
He was supposed to be doing a book signing at Kent on the anniversary of the shootings, that happens annually there... I guess.
He now has to self publish, which, given the situation, and the fact that he is the only one with his "manual", puts him in a great deal of danger.
Maybe I am a little paranoid for him, because of my past experience with revolution researchers and publishers that have suddenly gone missing, or suddenly commit suicide, over the past ten years. But while we were on the phone, we were getting echoes, then, three or four voice cut outs for ten, then 20 then 30 seconds. Finally, we were disconnected, and could not get reconnected.
I did ask him to write to me so I could foreword the Texas research he did to all, and let you hear about the Ron Paul Information, since I know all of you would care a lot.
I explained to him how to get a hold of the Ron Paul Texas Meetups, so they could investigate, and move on the situation, if they chose.
I am hoping for an email from him this morning.
I will be trying to call him back all day today.
So please to the degree you can, keep an eye on this thread. If I get him on the phone, I will let you know. He needs some help getting his information out, and wants to investigate the Ron Paul campaign and election fraud, on a larger scale.
Will follow up.... and if he does send an email, I will be sure to post it to you all
Linda




Ron wrote:
They want us to believe that McCain won Texas in a landslide. A place where I have never heard anyone mention his name, never seen so much as a bumper sticker, and clearly a state that is covered by Ron Paul signs. Just for the sake of discussion let's say it's possible. What I find seriously hard to believe is this:


* Ron Paul got 70% of the vote in his district for Congress-----37,220 votes.


* In that same district they want us to believe he only got 6,697 votes for president.


* That equates to approximately ONLY 1 in 5 people that voted for him for Congress supported him for President. They can't be serious. Don't lie to me!!




Please don't take my word for it. Look at the numbers yourself.
Congressional District 14 Results - http://enr.sos.state.tx.us/enr/mar04_135_race4.htm


Presidential Race District 14 Results - http://enr.sos.state.tx.us/enr/mar04_135_race64.htm




Please pass it on. Our votes are not counted people. Restore the Republic!
Ron Paul 2008, the Revolution has begun!

[Barney]

Why not pay for an independent poll of the state? I'd chipin for that.

Simple question, "Who did you vote for in the GOP presidential primary?"

And unlike other polls, Dr Paul would be one of the choices.

[hyoomen]

syborius, et al:

My suggestion that the anomaly between Congressman Paul's TX-14 results for his Congressional run vs. his Presidential run might be correlated to the initiative with which he has gone after one race vs. the other is not a distraction from the topic at hand. I am positing what I think is a probable reason for the difference. There are other probable reasons, as well, which seem simpler and more logical (can be reasoned even without the lack of genuine evidence you would all need to back up your claim of voter fraud).

The current reasoning which uses this discrepancy in votes to support allegations of voter fraud does not take into account:
-many people would want Congressman Paul as their Rep. but not their Pres.
-McCain and Huckabee were not running against Congressman Paul for his TX-14 seat, thus you cannot draw a genuine comparison
-additionally, Chris Peden was not running against Rep. Paul for President, thus you cannot draw a genuine comparison
-if people like him as a Rep. they might not want to lose him to the Presidency (ie who would pass all of their earmarks down the hall to get rubberstamped?)
-while there have been some definite travesties of the election process (his name being scratched out, the media saying or alluding to his having dropped out, etc), the fact remains that most of the people I talk to in Dallas, TX who aren't particularly computer savvy or concerned about libertarian ideals have either not heard of Ron Paul or were not aware he was even still in the race (anecdotal evidence supports this in the form of my having disseminated large amounts of information at polling places and overwhelmingly been told that he'd already dropped out or that he didn't have a chance)
-if Congressman Paul had the overwhelming support of the people that many of the posters seem to allude to through their leap to allegations of voter fraud, people across America (who aren't a part of these boards) would be calling for widespread investigations

Have people been disenfranchised? Yes. Does the system need to be hauled over completely? Probably. Is there significant evidence to warrant further undercutting our (some of us) mission to restore dignity and liberty to the American governing system by spending precious moments wondering who all of our enemies are rather than making friends? I am not so certain.

If you want to poll TX-14 and submit certified affidavits that his district overwhelmingly supported him for President, so be it. I'd be one of the first to launch a media blitz and march on wherever to bring such evidence to light. Otherwise, do not leap to foregone conclusions and drum up allegations that, without certifiable evidence, amounts to little more than "one more conspiracy theory" that causes all Ron Paul supporters and platform elements to be rejected without consideration. As though that were not enough, asserting a conclusion as 'obvious' without evidence may prevent you from investigating with enough semblance of objectivity to recognize the validity of facts and figures as they become available.

You want a red herring? How about all of those people who have been faster to decry possible voter fraud than they have been to go talk at every church, school, and small business in their area about the merits of a Ron Paul Presidency? How about all of those people who gave money to a blimp and a Dec. 16th moneybomb and a fanboy calendar and helped make campaign history, but couldn't be bothered to canvas by phone/foot or attend their Precinct Conventions and become delegates to their Senatorial/County/State conventions? I know I didn't do enough, but I know how to do what needs to be done now, and I know that changing the minds of people I interact with about the issues that Ron Paul represents is more important than any vote count is ever going to be.

[Tedhunter]

Maybe I am a little paranoid for him, because of my past experience with revolution researchers and publishers that have suddenly gone missing, or suddenly commit suicide, over the past ten years. But while we were on the phone, we were getting echoes, then, three or four voice cut outs for ten, then 20 then 30 seconds. Finally, we were disconnected, and could not get reconnected.



This makes me a little queasy. Whoever this investigative journalist guy is, he needs to protect himself by sending out copies of whatever he has to as many people as possible.

This just chills my spine, the way it reminds me of Bill Cooper, and how he had to protect himself by self-publishing "Behold a Pale Horse." Then he was murdered by the FBI.

[SteveMartin]

hyooman,

You can stop spreading your hooey now. We are on to it.

There is no possible way that 80% of the people who voted for him for his Congressional seat in district #14 then turned around and voted for a neocon for President.

I could buy 20%, maybe even 30 or 40%....but 80%!!!! NO WAY!!!

[hyoomen]

hyooman,

You can stop spreading your hooey now. We are on to it.

There is no possible way that 80% of the people who voted for him for his Congressional seat in district #14 then turned around and voted for a neocon for President.

I could buy 20%, maybe even 30 or 40%....but 80%!!!! NO WAY!!!While I applaud your faith in human reasoning as well as the support for Congressman Paul in his own district, it is dangerous to allow assumptions about human reasoning to haze the light of truth. Guessing about people's intentions or logic is not evidence -- it may be cause for skepticism that can be corroborated by certifiable evidence, but short of that you are just left with wondering why people could be so senseless. If you haven't experienced that sensation on a near daily basis in your life, then you may not be paying attention.

The fact that they could only choose between Ron Paul and Chris Peden is enough to account for why he could have done so well for one office and not the other. I am not making a positive assertion for this as the cause, I am simply suggesting it is a more obvious explanation than voter fraud.

[freelance]

This is the largest percent that he won in all his Congressional runs.
So why is his President numbers low.
Why were we so worried about Peden and his so called numbers stating that he was close to beating Dr. Paul.
The MSM was reporting Peden having large poll numbers and they were wrong again.
One thing I do know is that his district has a low number of Diebold electronic machines.

No, they weren't "wrong." They just figured that they could create opinion in his district the way they created opinion nationally. ;)

[ButchHowdy]

I trust that in St. Paul there WILL be a paper trail?!?

[NerveShocker]

Wow theres like two or three people that are actually trying to say 70% of the his district voted him for congress but 4/5 of those who did that chose they only wanted him as congressman not president? Please stop the lame attempts to excuse this... that's the worst excuse I've heard for why he did so poorly. This is clearly vote fraud people don't support Ron Paul half way. It's either completely or not at all.. rofl. Who are you kidding? And yes I'm talking mostly to you hyoomen.. you write an entire paragraph of non-logical bs? I Look forward to your next intelligent post and getting another good laugh out of it hopefully too... Please stop trying to convince us that 80% of the people voted for him for congress did not vote him for president. I am a Ron Paul supporter and I know many other Ron Paul supporters. I do not know 1 single soul who would only want him to win for congress, what your arguing is complete bullshit (Excuse my language but your really getting on my nerves with your lack of any common sense). It's a simple numbers game and I don't know anyone who would vote him for congress but not president, and now your trying to convince me 80% of Ron Paul supporters did this?! Please stop your lame attempt to mislead people here. Your beating your head against a wall.

[hyoomen]

Not trying to kid anybody. Just trying to be a responsible skeptic. Show me certified affidavits from all of those voters. For that matter, if this is the case, don't you think the people of TX-14 are going to be raising a ruckus of their own? If you think they support Rep. Paul completely ("or not at all"), then you might similarly expect that they have his same sort of fervor for following up on things like potentially disenfranchised votes. Let us see what the people of TX-14 do about this.

Considering I talked to a lot of people who voted one way or another in Primaries simply because a person was standing outside of the polling place to suggest to them that they do so, I have no qualms about suggesting the senselessness of many American voters is such that they could vote for Ron Paul in one election and not another.

Regardless, the burden of proof is on the positive assertion, and poorly qualified statistical analysis without appreciation of individual value judgments is hardly proof.

[NerveShocker]

Not trying to kid anybody. Just trying to be a responsible skeptic. Show me certified affidavits from all of those voters. For that matter, if this is the case, don't you think the people of TX-14 are going to be raising a ruckus of their own? If you think they support Rep. Paul completely ("or not at all"), then you might similarly expect that they have his same sort of fervor for following up on things like potentially disenfranchised votes. Let us see what the people of TX-14 do about this.

Considering I talked to a lot of people who voted one way or another in Primaries simply because a person was standing outside of the polling place to suggest to them that they do so, I have no qualms about suggesting the senselessness of many American voters is such that they could vote for Ron Paul in one election and not another.

Regardless, the burden of proof is on the positive assertion, and poorly qualified statistical analysis without appreciation of individual value judgments is hardly proof.

Wow, where did you learn to talk like that? Alan Greenspan teach you some of his GreenSpeak? I'm not going to waste much of my time with you since your agenda is now clear. Bringing logical arguments to you I see is a waste since you ignore them every time and change the subject (Something about people voting by who is outside the polling station). Rofl.. I'll have you know only 10% of people have not made their decision by the time they get to the polls (FYI). Not that your argument makes any sense anyways since in his district there are more signs and Ron Paul supporters than anywhere else.. Regardless, you can keep ignoring the fact 70% of the district wanted him for congress and that supposedly 80% of those people supposedly decided they only like him enough to be congressman.. Rofl.. (seriously that is quite humorous). I would suggest you look into Diebold machines and how easily corruptable our voting system is you might actually learn something.

Or you could keep trying to explain this by saying "Ron Paul supporters just want him as congressman not president" ... rofl, Your funny ;)

The best thing of all is that what your saying is that Ron Paul supporters did something other than vote for Ron Paul... If you were a Ron Paul supporter you would understand how completely absurd and impossible that is.. you clearly have a lot to learn about us Ron Paul supporters. (Now are you done joking around yet and wasting everyone's time?)

[Mordan]

The difference between district 14 votes and total TX state votes for RP is stated as only 15,713 votes (= 69,824 - 54,111)...


wrong

Ron Paul got 37 000 votes in TX 14 and 15800 went for Peden

you can verify it here http://enr.sos.state.tx.us/enr/mar04_135_state.htm?x=0&y=1501&id=16

stop crying wolf without fact and source for the facts

[SteveMartin]

hooyman is spreading pure hooey.

I have seen the M.O. a dozen times on a dozen forums relating to a dozen topics. Vote fraud is a common one where they send their disinfo agents. Most commonly, they even come out and tell you who they are in their usernames, for crying outloud!

It's standard psy ops M.O.

These people love to boast to each other about how "gullible" the unwashed masses are.

[SteveMartin]

Mordan is correct, however it changes the underlying assumptions very little. The anomaly is still outrageous.

"Mordan" fits the M.O. too.

[TruthAtLast]

Not trying to kid anybody. Just trying to be a responsible skeptic. Show me certified affidavits from all of those voters. For that matter, if this is the case, don't you think the people of TX-14 are going to be raising a ruckus of their own? If you think they support Rep. Paul completely ("or not at all"), then you might similarly expect that they have his same sort of fervor for following up on things like potentially disenfranchised votes. Let us see what the people of TX-14 do about this.

Considering I talked to a lot of people who voted one way or another in Primaries simply because a person was standing outside of the polling place to suggest to them that they do so, I have no qualms about suggesting the senselessness of many American voters is such that they could vote for Ron Paul in one election and not another.

Regardless, the burden of proof is on the positive assertion, and poorly qualified statistical analysis without appreciation of individual value judgments is hardly proof.


I haven't read all of hyoomen's posts but I'm not sure why people are jumping on him. From what I've read, it doesn't sound like he is counting out any possibility, he is just making a logical argument that ALL possibilities need to be considered and researched. He is right in that you can't just assume you know the answer just because it would make "sense". You can't just assume you know the reasoning behind someone's actions.

We may find out that it is IN FACT voter fraud. But we don't know this for sure. It sounds to me like he is merely suggesting that we investigate it further and really find out what caused it.

Anyone who can jump to conclusions blindly without researching and seeking truth is NO BETTER than the mindless drones that vote for McCain, support Socialism, support our military empire, and so on.

We are better than this. Let's research what really happened and if it turns out to be voter fraud then let's take the appropriate actions. If it isn't voter fraud and there is some other reason, then lets learn from it.

[SteveMartin]

There is no statistical probability above the ridiculous, that would say that the voters in his district would vote 70% for Ron Paul on one line, and then only 12% for him on the Presidential line.

That is not jumping to conclusions. That is from watching voting patterns for decades. People do not act that way. PERIOD.

You can believe what you want, but I absolutely refuse to believe that Ron Paul only won 60,000 votes outside of his district. Heck, he probably had half that many supporters just within the Austin City limits!!

[SteveMartin]

Joined in February, huh?

Things that make you go "hmmmmm....."

[NerveShocker]

There is no statistical probability above the ridiculous, that would say that the voters in his district would vote 70% for Ron Paul on one line, and then only 12% for him on the Presidential line.

That is not jumping to conclusions. That is from watching voting patterns for decades. People do not act that way. PERIOD.

You can believe what you want, but I absolutely refuse to believe that Ron Paul only won 60,000 votes outside of his district. Heck, he probably had half that many supporters just within the Austin City limits!!

1+ million. Where is the disconnect with some people..? This is blatantly obvious. Even from someone who has watched Edward G. Griffen's videos and hopefully read his books..? After listening to him and you are still skeptical when the truth stares you right in the face? How can some people be so blinded. I suggest you go read buy his book and further understand what we're up against. (Talking to you truth..) Those videos appear not to have done their job.


Live Free Or DieBold?

[TruthAtLast]

There is no statistical probability above the ridiculous, that would say that the voters in his district would vote 70% for Ron Paul on one line, and then only 12% for him on the Presidential line.

That is not jumping to conclusions. That is from watching voting patterns for decades. People do not act that way. PERIOD.

You can believe what you want, but I absolutely refuse to believe that Ron Paul only won 60,000 votes outside of his district. Heck, he probably had half that many supporters just within the Austin City limits!!

You may very well be right. But are you going to the court or the media with "there is no way this could have happened?"

My answer is PROVE IT.

I'm NOT saying you are wrong. I'm just saying you need more than a hunch. The FACT is that you have absolutely no evidence to back up your claim. GO GET SOME and then maybe we can do something about it.

[TruthAtLast]

1+ million. Where is the disconnect with some people..? This is blatantly obvious. Even from someone who has watched Edward G. Griffen's videos and hopefully read his books..? After listening to him and you are still skeptical when the truth stares you right in the face? How can some people be so blinded. I suggest you go read buy his book and further understand what we're up against. (Talking to you truth..) Those videos appear not to have done their job.


Live Free Or DieBold?

My God. Do you bother to even read what I write? I'm not saying it isn't true!!!!

I'm saying that you people spout off with these theories that MIGHT be true and have no friggin proof.

[TruthAtLast]

Joined in February, huh?

Things that make you go "hmmmmm....."

oh give me a break. go read every post I've ever written.

[NerveShocker]

You may very well be right. But are you going to the court or the media with "there is no way this could have happened?"

My answer is PROVE IT.

I'm NOT saying you are wrong. I'm just saying you need more than a hunch. The FACT is that you have absolutely no evidence to back up your claim. GO GET SOME and then maybe we can do something about it.

Yeah great idea maybe I'll take them to court. Ahh, damn they control the courts. Well I guess that won't work. (Goes back to waking people up on an individual basis).


Seriously, you should read his book.


Live Free or DieBold?

[TruthAtLast]

Yeah great idea maybe I'll take them to court. Ahh, damn they control the courts. Well I guess that won't work. (Goes back to waking people up on an individual basis).


Live Free or DieBold?

ok then, what are you going to do? What is this whole argument about then? If there is no action that can be taken then what does it matter WHAT the reason was?

[SteveMartin]

The numbers say he took only 4.3% in a 3-man race beyond CD #14 in a very independent-minded (especially among Republicans) State where INDEPENDENCE movements are born. That is Ron Paul's home state. That would be among the very poorest results he ever had in any state, including going back to when there were 8 guys still in the race!

You may say it's not proof. Some things in life are just empirically deduced, and never proven.

Prove the sun will come up tomorrow. I dare you.

[SteveMartin]

The FACT is that you have absolutely no evidence to back up your claim.

Patently false statement that can easily be proven false.

What else you got?....Bring it on....

[NerveShocker]

ok then, what are you going to do? What is this whole argument about then? If there is no action that can be taken then what does it matter WHAT the reason was?

Wow I really have to lay this out for you don't I? Ok.. as Edward Griffen said we need to overthrow the government.

Or since you suprisingly don't seem to know much about him.. maybe I'll use Thomas Jefferson who said for the good of the nation there should be a revolution once every twenty years. This in his opinion was the only way to not allow power to corrupt and to maintain the liberties and freedoms of the people.
Link:
http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl64.htm


Live Free or Die-Bold?

[SteveMartin]

I submit that nobody who signs up a few days ago, piles up 300+ posts, claims to support the writings of G. Edward Griffin, and then challenges blatantly obvious evidence of vote fraud is what he purports to be.

Now that, I admit, can't be proven.

Just putting it out there....

[CurtisLow]

I did not read all the posts...

But don't worry about it, Didnt you hear that bush had Alberto Gonzales fire all those Supreme Court justices and replaced them with people that will deal with the 2008 vote fraud when they come up.


No worries..
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5195/361125b15dhx9.gif

[TruthAtLast]

You actually CAN prove that the sun come up tomorrow, or rather than the earth will continue to rotate on its axis and in orbit which gives the illusion of the sun coming up.

I look at the stats and I agree, it is odd. And I'm frustrated like you. But if you can't go to court, and you can't go to the media, and you can't go to the GOP, then what can you do?

If some action is going to be taken, whatever it is, we need something more than "it just doesn't make any sense".

Come on, you know this. You know how these things work. I'm not arguing that you're wrong, I'm just saying (as it appeared others were saying as well) that our proof must either be direct evidence of voter fraud, or hard evidence that it WASN'T any other factor (which may indirectly imply voter fraud).

[TruthAtLast]

Patently false statement that can easily be proven false.

What else you got?....Bring it on....

So you are saying you DO have evidence of voter fraud? SWEET! then lets take action!

[NerveShocker]

I submit that nobody who signs up a few days ago, piles up 300+ posts, claims to support the writings of G. Edward Griffin, and then challenges blatantly obvious evidence of vote fraud is what he purports to be.

Now that, I admit, can't be proven.

Just putting it out there....

Maybe just an off day for him.. Based on what I'm hearing he likely hasn't seen any of those videos recently, his mindset would be entirely different. We all go through phases in my opinion, he's in his skeptic phase ;) (I've been too there even after knowing what I know). Notice he keeps demanding proof, as if the numbers are not proof themselves. The problem is once you pick a side of an argument your pretty much stuck on that side. Unless of course you understand how silly that is, sometimes you catch yourself.

[SteveMartin]

Another very common trait is that they never give up, even when proven wrong. They get paid the same either way.

Now look, we have already provided clear evidence of voter fraud to Joe Becker, and for whatever reason he has stymied all grassroots efforts to do anything about it. There are several threads on the official Ronpaul.meetup.com/boards/ message boards about this.

Our campaign has been as infiltrated as these boards.

We need to rise up and throw the bums out!

[TruthAtLast]

I submit that nobody who signs up a few days ago, piles up 300+ posts, claims to support the writings of G. Edward Griffin, and then challenges blatantly obvious evidence of vote fraud is what he purports to be.

Now that, I admit, can't be proven.

Just putting it out there....

I few days ago? you're joking. Again, read my posts. They aren't friggin *bump* posts I've done. Ask anyone here.

I've donated and have supported countless efforts. I've maxed out on both the presidential and congressional campaigns, i've donated to the blimp and the racing and the billboards, I've donated to many of the other Pauliticians as well.

if you think that the time at which someone signs up to this forum equates to their validity as a supporter, you haven't been paying attention.

[BigTimeMoe]

The Texas GOP platform already has a plank in it about returning to paper ballots. The problem is that is might not have made it to the national platform. If it is in the national platform, then, our reps just aren't reading it. If anyone hasn't done it yet I highly encourage you to read the GOP platform of Texas (www.texasgop.org). It reads as if Ron Paul wrote it himself, for the most part.

[SteveMartin]

Of course I have evidence. I have already given it and so have many others.

"Evidence" is not "proof." How old are you?

[SteveMartin]

I've donated and have supported countless efforts. I've maxed out on both the presidential and congressional campaigns, i've donated to the blimp and the racing and the billboards, I've donated to many of the other Pauliticians as well.



"Prove it."

[jrich4rpaul]

We passed a resolution in our precinct last night to abolish electronic voting machines for all Republican elections and replace it with paper ballots.

Good job!

[TruthAtLast]

Wow I really have to lay this out for you don't I? Ok.. as Edward Griffen said we need to overthrow the government.

Or since you suprisingly don't seem to know much about him.. maybe I'll use Thomas Jefferson who said for the good of the nation there should be a revolution once every twenty years. This in his opinion was the only way to not allow power to corrupt and to maintain the liberties and freedoms of the people.
Link:
http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/P/tj3/writings/brf/jefl64.htm


Live Free or Die-Bold?

I KNOW what the long term goal is. Geesh, can you please stay on topic. My point is that this entire thread is based on the numbers in Texas. I am saying we need proof. Then others say that proof wont matter because we can't take anyone to court (which I'm not arguing with). So I merely am responding that if there is no immediate action that can be taken regarding this alleged voter fraud, then why are we arguing WHAT the reason was?

[TruthAtLast]

"Prove it."

Private message me. Do you want be to scan copies of my bank statements?

[SteveMartin]

Don't back up obvious trolls like Mordan and hooyman, and I will give you the benefit of the doubt you are just having a bad day.

[SteveMartin]

I KNOW what the long term goal is. Geesh, can you please stay on topic. My point is that this entire thread is based on the numbers in Texas. I am saying we need proof. Then others say that proof wont matter because we can't take anyone to court (which I'm not arguing with). So I merely am responding that if there is no immediate action that can be taken regarding this alleged voter fraud, then why are we arguing WHAT the reason was?

Immediate action is being taken right here and right now. Information and knowledge lead to victory. Nothing much else ever has.

[TruthAtLast]

Immediate action is being taken right here and right now. Information and knowledge lead to victory. Nothing much else ever has.

OK, i can go with that. But I'd still love someone to investigate this further. Isn't there a smoking gun we can find? :D

[NerveShocker]

I KNOW what the long term goal is. Geesh, can you please stay on topic. My point is that this entire thread is based on the numbers in Texas. I am saying we need proof. Then others say that proof wont matter because we can't take anyone to court (which I'm not arguing with). So I merely am responding that if there is no immediate action that can be taken regarding this alleged voter fraud, then why are we arguing WHAT the reason was?

Go watch those videos again, you'll be out of this skeptic phase faster than you can count to 3. Seriously.. I've been where you are, I know the remedy. You keep saying I don't offer and option but I offer the only option that Edward Griffen says is viable. This is overthrowing and giving the power back to the people. You do this hopefully peacefully by one by one waking up the population and letting them know who truly represents the voice of the people. (What we do here everyday) In other words getting people to vote those who have our best interests at heart into positions of power.

Of course theres always the other way which as the Revolution against British rule and tyranny did involves violence. This would only happen if there was no choice or as Jack Kennedy said "When peaceful protests become illegal, violent protests become inevitable."

[SteveMartin]

NS,

Sadly that day seems to be arriving quickly. If we can't even vote anymore, that's all we have left.

Thank goodness we have strong evidence that many in the military are with us.

This blatant fraud in Texas may lead to many things.

TAL,

My apologies. You are young if that is your picture, and we old guys who have been fighting these traitors for decades are running out of patience--I shouldn't take that out on people who are just beginning to understand the depths of the problem.

[hyoomen]

Wow, where did you learn to talk like that? Alan Greenspan teach you some of his GreenSpeak? ... and other inanities

You've questioned my intelligence, you've questioned my speech, you've questioned my support of Ron Paul, you've put words in my mouth. What else would you like to do?

I said specifically I was offering alternatives to the idea of voter fraud; they happen to be not senseless suggestions and do not require specific evidence to refute your foregone conclusion. I'm not opposed to the possibility of voter fraud out of hand, but it is a serious allegation that warrants better evidence than your onerous assumption that all people who vote for A for Office B must also vote for A for Office A when Office B and Office A are different and present different obstacles.

I'll try not to take too much offense at the idea that you questioned my support of Ron Paul indirectly by saying I have a lot to learn about "us Ron Paul supporters" in an exclusive way. I am, however, learning how rapidly people are willing to jump to the idea of conspiracy without considering the more commonplace answers of coincidence, stupidity, or a lack of will.

BTW, if you'll "have me know" a statistic, please back it up with your source. Which specific polls are you using to back up the idea that only 10% make up their mind at the polls? It is somewhat moot, as I was simply offering one of many alternative possibilities, but I'm curious nevertheless.

[SteveMartin]

Oh goodie! More hooey from the hooyman!

Want to try telling us another race in the history of American politics where a candidate running for two positions got a 5-fold variation in votes from voters in the same district on the same day for one office versus another?

[TruthAtLast]

Go watch those videos again, you'll be out of this skeptic phase faster than you can count to 3. Seriously.. I've been where you are, I know the remedy. You keep saying I don't offer and option but I offer the only option that Edward Griffen says is viable. This is overthrowing and giving the power back to the people. You do this hopefully peacefully by one by one waking up the population and letting them know who truly represents the voice of the people. (What we do here everyday) In other words getting people to vote those who have our best interests at heart into positions of power.

Of course theres always the other way which as the Revolution against British rule and tyranny did involves violence. This would only happen if there was no choice or as Jack Kennedy said "When peaceful protests become illegal, violent protests become inevitable."

So would we say that education and informing the public is really the best long term goal? I talk to people every day that are so darn brainwashed that I don't know how to UN-brainwash them. I can talk to them about liberties being taken away, and how socialism creates eternal reliance on those in power, and the Homegrown Terrorist Act, and Rendition, and the FEMA concentration camps, and how the FED was created, how the IRS was never properly radified, how fractional reserve banking destroys a currency, how the media facilitates these actions, how our foreign policy affects our safety, and I can talk about the NAU and the Amero, and the how the U.N. and the World Bank were created, and I can spout off countless quotations from other presidents and heads of industries over the years..... and when all is said and done..... the truth is so friggin overwhelming that people immediately say that it is impossible or that I'm into conspiracies, or worse. Hell, my own family are hard pressed to believe it. My mom is friggin voting for McCain.

I know we need to "retake the ship" but there has GOT to be a method of effectively informing the public to these things without them being dismissed.

The department of education often controls the text books and very intelligent kids are coming out of school brainwashed.

[constituent]

fwiw, i doubt the votes have ever been accurately counted.

"free and fair" elections are probably just pie in the sky.

however, after watching the backlash to every state being
"voter fraud..." well, it's kinda like... we know that already.

i will tell you this though, just as an anecdotal story about
voting in tx.

my wife and i battled our 18 mo. old baby in a line for nearly
two hrs... right before we got up to the sign in table, a lady walks
up the line, "are there any republicans?"

my wife and i were alone in raising our hands...

we were brought immediately to the voting tables.

we'd been waiting in the "democrats" line b/c there
was no "republican" line... well, there was, you just couldn't
see it until you'd waited to get near the voting room.

the world is a crazy place.

something like 10x the turnout of any election ever, and
almost zero republicans.

there was a major failure in strategy that played out somewhere.

if not strategy, expectation.

just some thoughts.

[SteveMartin]

TAL,

The best thing is what we are all doing. When TPTB pull their next "terrorist attack" many people who may think your nuts now will become friendlies who will join us. You can only suspend disbelief for so long. You have planted the seed of truth, and TPTB will inevitably come along and water it.

Check out the nearby "petition" thread. That is (IMHO) how we take this to the next level, WITHOUT making it just a pure educational effort.

[theantirobot]

Could be the party elite was worried Ron would go third party if he lost his seat.

best explanation yet

[SteveMartin]

Constituent,


Very few Republcians, and yet we are supposed to believe there is all this enthusiasm out there for their anointed neocon?? Unbelievable brashness for the MSM to say otherwise, isn't it? Coincidence that we are stuck with the absolute worst of the original 11 they gave us, huh? The most warlike, belligerent S.O.B. ever to run for the office...

McCain has virtually no support beyond the newsroom. And those in the hinterland who do support him tend to be the most brainwashed and unintelligent of all.

[constituent]

Constituent,


Very few Republcians, and yet we are supposed to believe there is all this enthusiasm out there for their anointed neocon?? Ubelievable brashness for the MSM to say otherwise, isn't it?

McCain has virtually no support beyond the newsroom. And those in the hinterland who do support him tend to be the most brainwashed and unintelligent of all.

amen to that.

[Barney]

Somethings amiss. Everyone here feels it. Even the contrarians and the naysayers. So,...

Why not poll the district?


It wouldn't cost much and it may not be something that would hold up in court, but seriously,... how many here are dying to know?

I for one am tired of being force fed numbers I don't believe.

[SteveMartin]

Barney,

Right on, brother! I am Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sick of them getting away with this BS!!!

It would probably be quashed by the morons in Arlington, but hey, if anyone knows anybody in that district who is a real grassroots go-getter, I'd be willing to call him/her and try to get something rolling!

[hyoomen]

SteveMartin, et al

For those of you who can't produce an accurate, well-defended logical argument which succeeds in going beyond any element of reasonable doubt, I shall try to take a moment to post some basic references to logical thought later -- in another thread so you won't further accuse me (erroneously, thus far) of detracting from the thread.

Thus far your responses to my arguments have been the Ron Paul-fanatic equivalent of "if you're against the war on terror then you are unAmerican". I had hoped us Ron Paul supporters stood for more than that.

[SteveMartin]

hooyman,

Have fun. Nobody here is buying your hooey.

We are already way beyond a reasonable doubt in just comparing the 37,000 votes RP got in CD #14 for the congressional race vs. the measly 6000+ he got for the presidential race. Anybody who can't see that is not worth my time to read.

Here is what RON PAUL said today:

"Of course all the spontaneous effort and work and sign making; there is no doubt in the minds of congress who has the most enthusiastic supporters. It would be nice if this translated into a much higher percentage. To some degree this is a little disappointing, but there are different explanations for that. The type of credibility the front runners get from the media has something to do with it. Sometimes I wonder about the counting of the votes."

[SteveMartin]

bump

[hyoomen]

"The type of credibility the front runners get from the media has something to do with it. Sometimes I wonder about the counting of the votes."
Even Rep. Paul does not make the logical error of jumping to a conclusion. He simply allows for the possibility and, probably, expects there to be some answers in the future.

I don't deny that something is awry. But then, I also can't forget that every person I encountered in N. Texas who I didn't know to be a Ron Paul fan in advance had either not heard of him or thought he had dropped out. I can't forget that Congressman Paul himself laid off Presidential campaign staff and spent nearly a month focusing almost exclusively on his Congressional primary race. I can't ignore that in the last week leading up to Tuesday polls show Rep. Paul dropping from 11% to 7% to 4% as Huckabee enacted a huge media blitz and dramatic grassroots/church surge to try and overtake McCain. McCain's numbers held steady and Huckabee siphoned off would-be Rep. Paul supporters on the basis that he might have a better chance of stopping McCain at this point than Rep. Paul. I don't like it, but that is clearly borne out by statistics that are far more scientific than "well those people voted for him in one race but didn't vote for him in that other race so we call shenanigans". Could TX-14 have trended similarly? I'm not sure. Do a poll and find out.

None of what we have talked about, except for one brief mention in one of my previous posts, has even really touched on a phenomenon many of us know all too well. Since many (most?) people tend to vote for the 'lesser of two evils', many people might have thought Ron Paul to be the lesser of the two evils between him and Peden, but not the lesser of the three evils between him and McCain and Huckabee. Most of us on the boards and/or those of us who stayed up for 60 hours straight merging databases and calling people in multiple counties and training precinct participants and sending mass emails with resolutions and delegate strategies and/or those of us who further went on to become delegates and Precinct Convention Chairs and pass resolutions, etc. would never fathom Dr. Paul as the 'lesser of two evils', but that doesn't mean Joe Blow of Victoria, TX doesn't.

I'd like to point out at this point that I've done my best to not counter this run away allegation with ad hominem attacks or appeals to emotion, community/family (Ron Paul supporters), or any other logical misstep.

I'm at this time trying to figure out how to filter results of other elections for candidates who ran in two races simultaneously and then assess whether there have been past statistical anomalies of this sort, though I suspect if I were to demonstrate past instances you'd all only accept them as "further proof of a conspiracy". In essence you've setup a circuitous logic in which you have only one answer and you'll seek to fit all evidence into it.

[TN_VOL]

Unbelievable.... Completely Unbelievable

[hyoomen]

First result in researching similar phenomenon, Congressman Paul's Democratic friend, Dennis Kucinich:

http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com/2008/02/ohio-10th-district-poll.html

Ohio 10th District Poll

Voters in Ohio's 10th Congressional District aren't planning to cast a symbolic vote for their Congressman, Dennis Kucinich, for President:

Hillary Clinton 55
Barack Obama 31
Dennis Kucinich 4

Hillary Clinton has a strong advantage in the heavily white district.

But despite a challenge in the primary from four opponents, Kucinich appears pretty safe for reelection:

Dennis Kucinich 55
Joe Cimperman 29
Barbara Anne Ferris 5
Tom O'Grady 4
Rosemary Palmer 1

Since there isn't much enthusiasm in the district for his Presidential candidacy, it looks like Kucinich made the prudent choice by coming home before the South Carolina primary and campaigning for reelection.

While a strong majority of Democrats (59-26) support Kucinich for reelection but Republicans and independents planning to vote in the primary appear to be less enthused with him. He leads 45-35 with the former group and trails 45-34 with the latter.

Gee, I wonder if those numbers look familiar. Oh wait, maybe all of the Diebold machines and polling surveys in the land are automatically programmed to give incumbent Congressmen who are running for President the same numbers, approximately 70% for incumbent Congressional seat, 4% for White House. I CRACKED THE CODE. </sarcasm>

[SteveMartin]

hooyman,

Nice job! Extra pay check for you this week!

[syborius]

So Hyoomen claims he is being logical, he claims he is only here to offer alternatives, yet he uses as an example the only other congressman in all of congress that the elite establishment absolutely despise as evidence that there is nothing wrong with these election numbers.

While we are trying to open up eyes to the obvious anomalies and abnormalities of the voting numbers, you do the exact opposite by propping up the same establishment numbers of one of the only friends of Ron Paul's, who many times actually votes with Ron Paul. Do you not see your own fallacy here? It becomes very circular after that. You have tried your best to shape perception, to cultivate doubt on these forums, to dismiss any and all allegations with alternatives yet you fail because these questions will persist, they will linger. There is such a thing as "blowback", its very real. It happened when Peden tried to release polling numbers placing him ahead by 10 points, but that didn't really work too well. In any event keep on trying, you are doing a bang up job for your masters, just let it be know they own you.

So, here it is hyoomen, Show me a rally with Mccain pulling at least 1000 people from the street. A street rally. I want to see a youtube or pictures of him with adoring crowds. Not a staged event from a University. I want to see a street rally for John Mccan with all his fans.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bryanmartin/2287818536/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bryanmartin/2287819144/in/set-72157603970964652/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bryanmartin/2287817532/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bryanmartin/2287032469/in/photostream/


Let's actually up the ante. Show me a rally like that in Texas. This was in Austin. This was a rally for Ron Pauls presidential bid where he had 5k or so people attend. These are ordinary people coming in from the street. Are you seeing the picture yet??

Show me Mccain's huge magnificent rally's where he gets 10x that, so at least it equals in some way all the voting patterns from state to state.!!! SHOW ME!!

[hyoomen]

So Hyoomen claims he is being logical, he claims he is only here to offer alternatives, yet he uses as an example the only other congressman in all of congress that the elite establishment absolutely despise as evidence that there is nothing wrong with these election numbers.

While we are trying to open up eyes to the obvious anomalies and abnormalities of the voting numbers, you do the exact opposite by propping up the same establishment numbers of one of the only friends of Ron Paul's, who many times actually votes with Ron Paul. Do you not see your own fallacy here? It becomes very circular after that. . . In any event keep on trying, you are doing a bang up job for your masters, just let it be know they own you.

So, here it is hyoomen, Show me a rally with Mccain pulling at least 1000 people from the street. A street rally. I want to see a youtube or pictures of him with adoring crowds. Not a staged event from a University. I want to see a street rally for John Mccan with all his fans.

Let's actually up the ante. Show me a rally like that in Texas. This was in Austin. This was a rally for Ron Pauls presidential bid where he had 5k or so people attend. These are ordinary people coming in from the street. Are you seeing the picture yet??

Show me Mccain's huge magnificent rally's where he gets 10x that, so at least it equals in some way all the voting patterns from state to state.!!! SHOW ME!!If rallies and moneybombs were votes, we wouldn't have to worry about voter fraud because we'd simply have an applause-o-meter. I am a young person who cares and has done volumes to turn others into intellectually fortified Ron Paul supporters. I was unable to make the UT Austin or Killeen rallies, but I was at the Denton rally the week before where a third of us attendees had to move to another room and hear an abbreviated version of Dr. Paul's speech because there were so many more of us than anticipated. But by the same token, I didn't see many of those 'energized youth' offering themselves as election judges or poll watchers. I didn't see a statistically significant number of the 60-80 year olds who are accountable for the majority of votes cast in election after election at the rally or in other Ron Paul events.

It is blatantly disrespectful of you to question my loyalty simply because I question the prevailing 'logic'. I'd point out how similar your attacks on me are to how "the Establishment" attacks its detractors, but I fear the point would be missed. My masters? How dare you? Is this the sort of talk you would expect from Ron Paul to somebody who tries to inject cautious logic into unfounded accusations?

I offered one example (the first of many I'm sure I'll find and you'll reject as further proof that the Establishment is In Power) and you accuse me of not being concerned about vote anomalies/abnormalities. Is the difference between TX-14 votes in Dr. Paul's TX-14 race and his Presidential race qualifiable as an abnormality or anomaly? Yes, in one sense (strange that people would vote for a person in one election but not another); no, in another sense (matches polling figures nationwide). Does it NECESSARILY indicate voter fraud? No -- it could represent, as previously mentioned, the disconnect between his domestic policy and his foreign policy, the difference in his opponents for each race, the senselessness of the average voter (no offense to TX-14 voters), voter fraud, the Congressman's own interest in running for House of Representatives again vs. running for President, the effect of an incumbent for one office as a 'darkhorse' for another, people's interest in voting for the 'obvious winner' regardless of issues or community pride, the amount of money per vote spent on his Congressional race vs. the amount of money per vote spent on his Presidential race, etc.

[syborius]

If rallies and moneybombs were votes, we wouldn't have to worry about voter fraud because we'd simply have an applause-o-meter. I am a young person who cares and has done volumes to turn others into intellectually fortified Ron Paul supporters. I was unable to make the UT Austin or Killeen rallies, but I was at the Denton rally the week before where a third of us attendees had to move to another room and hear an abbreviated version of Dr. Paul's speech because there were so many more of us than anticipated. But by the same token, I didn't see many of those 'energized youth' offering themselves as election judges or poll watchers. I didn't see a statistically significant number of the 60-80 year olds who are accountable for the majority of votes cast in election after election at the rally or in other Ron Paul events.

It is blatantly disrespectful of you to question my loyalty simply because I question the prevailing 'logic'. I'd point out how similar your attacks on me are to how "the Establishment" attacks its detractors, but I fear the point would be missed. My masters? How dare you? Is this the sort of talk you would expect from Ron Paul to somebody who tries to inject cautious logic into unfounded accusations?

I offered one example (the first of many I'm sure I'll find and you'll reject as further proof that the Establishment is In Power) and you accuse me of not being concerned about vote anomalies/abnormalities. Is the difference between TX-14 votes in Dr. Paul's TX-14 race and his Presidential race qualifiable as an abnormality or anomaly? Yes, in one sense (strange that people would vote for a person in one election but not another); no, in another sense (matches polling figures nationwide). Does it NECESSARILY indicate voter fraud? No -- it could represent, as previously mentioned, the disconnect between his domestic policy and his foreign policy, the difference in his opponents for each race, the senselessness of the average voter (no offense to TX-14 voters), voter fraud, the Congressman's own interest in running for House of Representatives again vs. running for President, the effect of an incumbent for one office as a 'darkhorse' for another, people's interest in voting for the 'obvious winner' regardless of issues or community pride, the amount of money per vote spent on his Congressional race vs. the amount of money per vote spent on his Presidential race, etc.

You seem to be losing rather badly, I see those pictures from austin TX are hard to swallow given your vociferous attempt at rebuttal....btw, you forgot to show me....

[hyoomen]

WTF are you talking about? I had seen numerous pictures of the Austin rally. I never said anything decrying the awesomeness of all of the Texas rallies heretofore.

Please allow me to phrase my response a better way: what, specifically, do you think a rally of 5000 people for Ron Paul indicates?

[josh24601]

Is this still an actual discussion? Amazing.

PEOPLE VOTE FOR THE PERSON WITH NAME RECOGNITION. If it's between somebody they've heard of and somebody they haven't, they choose the person they know most about.

If McCain was running against RP for this congressional seat he would have won.

When it's a nobody named Chis Peden, RP wins.

What is so impossible to grasp about this concept? Why must everything be a conspiracy?

[syborius]

WTF are you talking about? I had seen numerous pictures of the Austin rally. I never said anything decrying the awesomeness of all of the Texas rallies heretofore.

Please allow me to phrase my response a better way: what, specifically, do you think a rally of 5000 people for Ron Paul indicates?

It indicates your head in the sand of denial. I asked you to show me! SHOW ME A MCCAIN RALLY from the STREET with that kind of support...SHOW ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want to see something tangible from you, something, anything other than your empty platitudes, and conjecture. SHOW ME pictures of a rally for Mccain. Surely he must have 1 youtube, or a few pictures from a single state where he is winning these landslide victories..You fight very hard to prop up the establishment position. Now SHOW ME!!!

[hyoomen]

/me faints from exhaustion and and bewilderment that there is a voice of reason

BTW, for the continued conspiracy theorists, I'm currently seeking records of AZ polls for Rep. Udall for his House seat vs. his Presidential bid. He was a bit more beloved than Ron Paul, though. It is difficult to find examples with any similarity, as Representatives rarely run for President.

Another Rep. who ran for Pres. was John B. Anderson in 1980, who, after falling out the Republican nomination race, sought candidacy as an independent and gave one of the strongest showings as a third party candidate in the 20th century (with approximately 7%). The example is again not perfect -- though he didn't carry a single precinct in the country including the one from which he had originated as a Representative -- he had dropped out of his House race to run for President. Thus, one could argue, he had shown more dedication to his run for President than has Congressman Paul. Though he has recently endorsed Obama, he is definitely a person to research for anybody who is interested in Republicans or Democrats running third party in a Presidential election. He's also an advocate for Instant Runoff Voting -- both as a way of encouraging more legitimate numbers in elections and of mitigating the 'spoiler effect' that keeps many people from voting for third party candidates.

Anybody else have other examples? Is there any example I could give that would prove that the numbers could just be the numbers and nothing more or will you refuse to hear it, syborius?

[SteveMartin]

I suppose Hooey would like us to believe that 40,000 people just walked away in District #14 after voting for President without voting in their own Congressional race.

Answer me that one, smart guy.

[SteveMartin]

Josh,

500+ posts in a little over a month. Busy boy, huh?

What is your insurance plan like?

[SteveMartin]

Well, well, well. Looks like the cat is having troll tongues for din din tonight, huh?

[syborius]

I suppose Hooey would like us to believe that 40,000 people just walked away in District #14 after voting for President without voting in their own Congressional race.

Answer me that one, smart guy.

HAHAHA, here we go....

[Proemio]

Constituent,
...

McCain has virtually no support beyond the newsroom. ...

Wrong.
He's been numberOne ever since it became clear the Giuliani could simply not be sold.

Checking regularly with the only Song Sheet that counts, helps avoid wild speculations - not to mention shock & outrage...

Song Sheet
V
http://hftpi.com/stuff/SongSheet.jpg

That little page, accurately predicted every twist and turn in fortunes over the last six months.
Ron Paul is nowhere, because he isn't on that page, tho no less than 23 havebeens are.
It's just the way democracy works...

[SteveMartin]

LOL...Proemio...

Are you saying we have the best democracy a shekel can buy?

[Proemio]

LOL...Proemio...

Are you saying we have the best democracy a shekel can buy?

It took me about 40 years to realize that democracy is as much a scam as fractional reserve banking, and also has a similar, finite life-cycle, whereby it must eventually self-destruct. With democracy, the moment arrives when over half the voting population depends on government 'largesse' in some fashion. We are way past that mark, if you count all the fashist constructs involving 'strategic' corporations.

The worst part about my 'discovery' was the fact that less than two weeks after my great moment, I discovered that the ancient greeks had all this already figured out; and so did obviously some of the Founders.
There isn't much 'change' available under the sun, except packaging...

Since we are effectively only 'hours' away from the critical point, Ron Paul will most likely be the next President - almost by default.
Events are marching his (our) way.
That's what I believe since the day he announced his intention to run - and still do, as long as we keep him going...

----------
BTW. it's not sheckels. It's all the dollars from all the various 'aid' packages. It's called buying your own demise...

[hyoomen]

HAHAHA, here we go....

What, specifically, are you referring to? I haven't seen this statistic borne out.

[ronpaulbillboards]

Wow!
It's great to see this post get this amount of attention.
Let me clarify, the 54,111 votes were for Ron Paul's Congressional seat in District 14.
The problem is that I can't believe that 54,111 people in his district would vote for him for Congress but not for President.
This does not make sense, maybe we need to find these people or poll his district to see if they voted for him for President as well.

I just can't see a large group of people voting for Ron Paul for Congressman and then voting for McCain or Huckabee for President.
They are in 180 degrees away from his political philosophy.

[ronpaulbillboards]

Looks like in Texas you can vote for whoever you want to in the general election.

Voting in the Primary Elections

If you are a registered voter in the state of Texas, you will simply choose your party and vote in that party's primary. To explain, we do not register by party in Texas. One becomes "affiliated" with a party by voting in a party's primary and the affiliation lasts for that primary year. As an example, if a voter voted in the March 2006 primary or April 2006 runoff primary, the voter affiliated with that party for the rest of that year, but on December 31, 2006 the affiliation expired. The affiliation means that the person may not vote in another party’s primary or participate in another party’s convention or sign an independent candidate’s petition for place on the ballot if the independent candidate’s position appears on the primary ballot.
Note that in the general election in November, a voter may vote for whomever he/she wishes, regardless of how or whether he/she voted in the primary or runoff primary election, since all candidates are on the same ballot.

[AWF]

Folks, please calm down. Take a deep breath and think.

RP did quite poorly in terms of TX-14 presidential votes for some combination of factors: campaign distracted by congressional run, people wanted to keep him as their representative, he simply did not reflect peoples' foreign policy and other national priorities that are relevant to a president (vs. House member), weak advertising and phone-banking relative to the Big 2, he was running against two more prominent and better funded peers vs. 1 bozo deputy mayor and the fact that incumbents have an ENORMOUS advantage in House races, especially in a primary. We could think of other reasons if we tried. RP got like 12%+ for Prez in his district, so there was some bounce due to hometown pride and name recognition, but it doesn't trump everything.

Have you taken a break from your pile-on of hyoomen yet? By the way, do any of you live in TX-14? Have you spoken at length with people there? How many, and what did they say? This issue has been addressed at other sites (I think it was either Daily Paul or Daily Dose) and someone pointed out that they lived down there and personally knew of several people that voted for RP for Congress and the Huckster for Prez. Does RP think he got blatantly screwed by a factor of 2x-3x as most of you are alleging? Let me know what you come up with.

Oh, and in reference to the earlier point re: Austin "well, but RP had a lot of signs up and people at the rally, so he must have gotten so many more votes" - I would point out that he has had more signs up throughout the entire country (and big rallies), including places where we finished in low single digits. How many at the Austin rally were from other parts of Texas, or even other states for that matter? Let's not kid ourselves, Granny smith and Grandpa neo-con that voted for Huckster and McVain don't usually put up yardsigns or go to rallies. RP earned 17% in Travis county - hey, that's a very good showing for him.

Let's work on something real, not get drunk on feel-good stories about how we were robbed ....based on zero evidence.

[syborius]

What, specifically, are you referring to? I haven't seen this statistic borne out.

Why didn't the people that voted for Mccain in the 14th district also vote for Peden? It makes no sense. if Mccain won the presidential bid in a landslide in the 14th district, wouldn't those same people be motivated to vote for Peden as well? You have basically all those people give a thumbs up to Mccain because they HATE HATE HATE Ron Paul, but for the congressional run just walk out on Peden, and not vote?

[hyoomen]

First, pay attention that not all of them voted for McCain or Paul. In one county there were even 350 early votes given to Hugh Cort (for some reason I haven't figured out). Huckabee played a part in keeping votes away from McCain. That having been said, many people didn't vote for McCain because they hate Ron Paul -- they voted for McCain because he is the presumptive nominee of the GOP.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make sense -- but in the context of the erosion of principle and intellect in our American political experiment it is par for the course.

We will change this, though. Are you a delegate in your state? Are you ready to teach about what we know best: the need for all men to embrace their right to Liberty?

[ronpaulbillboards]

Ron Paul votes in the 14th district. If these results are 100% legit, than we have some work to do. People that are already familiar with Ron Paul and voted for him locally but didn't support him nationally. That's a problem, and probably related to the GOP status quo of supporting the endorsed candidate.

Aransas

Congressman
4020

President
300

Brazoria

Congressman
17562

President
3611

Calhoun

Congressman
828

President
91

Chambers

Congressman
3350

President
265

Fort Bend

Congressman
5550

President
1950

Galveston

Congressman
11090

President
1316

Jackson

Congressman
681

President
106

Matagorda

Congressman
1749

President
188

Victoria

Congressman
4939

President
893

Wharton

Congressman
3721

President
357

[Shaun]

For the first time in this entire campaign, I can see that in Texas, it was likely, there was some fraud. I have been relentless in attacking other posters on this fraud issue prior to this thread, but even I, a devout anti conspiracy theorist can see that this one is fishy...
God if I'm on this side of the fence others like me must be saying the same thing....
This is suspect. No question.
Well done for raising this...

[SteveMartin]

To summarize:

We are supposed to believe that 40,000 people (roughly 40%) of CD #14 voters refused to vote in the Congressional Race, but voted overwhelmingly for McCain, who beat Paul by 40,000 votes in that district. Then, we are supposed to believe that only 1/4 of the people who DID vote for Ron Paul for the Congressional seat also voted for him for President.

Then we are supposed to believe that all of these neocon voters (90% of the voters in the district voted for one on the 2 neocon Presidential candidates) turned their backs completely on the neocon Congressional candidate, Peden. Only 15% of those who went to the polls voted for Peden.

Uh huh...

[constituent]

To summarize:

We are supposed to believe that 40,000 people (roughly 40%) of CD #14 voters refused to vote in the Congressional Race, but voted overwhelmingly for McCain, who beat Paul by 40,000 votes in that district. Then, we are supposed to believe that only 1/4 of the people who DID vote for Ron Paul for the Congressional seat also voted for him for President.

Then we are supposed to believe that all of these neocon voters (90% of the voters in the district voted for one on the 2 neocon Presidential candidates) turned their backs completely on the neocon Congressional candidate, Peden. Only 15% of those who went to the polls voted for Peden.

Uh huh...

what's the next step?

[SteveMartin]

We are told that Ron Paul got 69,000 votes for President across the entire state--his HOME State--a state where independence movements are born. We are told that 9000 of those votes came from one CD--his own, the 14th.

If you look at the 40,000 vote margin that McCain got over Paul in his own district and see that 40,000 people voted for President who didn't vote in the Congressional race at all, then the question comes up: "Were those 40,000 votes padded on to McCain's total in the district to keep RP from beating McCain there?"

If you allow that this might be the case, and extrapolate that this additional 40,000 votes' percentage was added for McCain across the State, you get a Huckabee win, and a continued hope for a brokered convention.

What is next?? Someone should look at the other Congressional races across Texas to see if in any other CD there was a wide discrepancy between the numbers of people who voted in the Congressional race versus the Presidential race.

Then, we can do some more analysis...

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

We may find out that it is IN FACT voter fraud. But we don't know this for sure. It sounds to me like he is merely suggesting that we investigate it further and really find out what caused it.

I agree with that, completely. Well, not with anyone's intentions on this forum, but with the idea that things deserve honest investigation.


ok then, what are you going to do? What is this whole argument about then? If there is no action that can be taken then what does it matter WHAT the reason was?

That... I don't agree with, and I'm not convinced you agree with it either.


While I don't think vote fraud is a major international conspiracy, there's overwhelming evidence that politicians and their buddies engage in all sorts of sleazy disenfranchisement tactics. They also get away with it quite a bit, and have done so for many years. Joe sixpack doesn't care because it's just crooks stealing from crooks, and they know they're getting the short end of the stick no matter which crook wins.

Just looking at the numbers... I want an explanation. It doesn't have to be the explanation I already believe or an explanation that I like. I want an explanation that is true.

These things need to be proven, and people need to be prosecuted. Until low level political party people are being put in jail for vote fraud, we can expect it to continue. Same with voter disenfranchisement. Politicians usually lose their jobs when they commit crimes. They deserve jail, just as they would jail those they believe to be their underlings.

[Sandra]

Where's Alvin?

[syborius]

bump

[SteveMartin]

Someone should look at the other Congressional races across Texas to see if in any other CD there was a wide discrepancy between the numbers of people who voted in the Congressional race versus the Presidential race.

[hyoomen]

If you look at the 40,000 vote margin that McCain got over Paul in his own district and see that 40,000 people voted for President who didn't vote in the Congressional race at all, then the question comes up: "Were those 40,000 votes padded on to McCain's total in the district to keep RP from beating McCain there?"
If you're adding up all of the county's results listed on the page for TX-14, did you account for the 30,000 people who don't vote in TX-14 in those counties but actually vote for TX-22? If you add in the 30,000 you get close to the 94806 Presidential votes. Add in the fact that many people don't vote for positions they aren't familiar w/ and you have a simple reason.

I have an Excel spreadsheet I'm looking at right now with figures properly accounted for. 9077 people voted for Dr. Paul in TX-14 and some of TX-22 for President; 37220 voted for Dr. Paul for Congress. Unless you want to extrapolate precinct by precinct, those aren't terrible odds. That having been said, my own quick sum shows a bit more than 13000 votes not accounted for between the Congressional totals in those counties and the Presidential totals in those counties. Even if all 13462 that I haven't accounted for were added back in as votes for Congressman Paul, his percentage across all of those counties would only go up to 12%.

Again, you are basing your argument on a theory that because Texas is an independent-spirited state (hint, as a resident of multiple areas of Texas over the past 27 years, it isn't anymore), these figures can't be correct. Apparently, bad math is also playing a role.

Just because people vote for an incumbent in one part of a ticket doesn't mean they'll vote for the same person (who is at the bottom of the ballot!) in another.

[SteveMartin]

EXCERPT IF YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ WHOLE EXPLANATION




I was startled by the explanation.? It seems that there were no Republican primaries in 21 counties, and no Democratic primaries in three counties.? This would explain the numbers, but it would still be a fact that voters of one party or another are disenfranchised, countywide, in many counties in Texas.? To me, this seemed unacceptable in a democracy.







On Mar 7, 2008, at 12:35 PM, Virginia Brooks wrote:


?
Updated report from Tx.? Virginia Brooks
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Richard Hayes Phillips, Ph.D.
March 6, 2008
???? Last night I posted a compilation of election results from Tuesday?s presidential primary in Texas, showing that in 21 counties there were no votes cast in the Republican primary, and in three counties there were no votes cast in the Democratic primary. (The original posting is appended).? I asked for an explanation, and I received one from David Rogers, an attorney in Austin, Texas, described as a supporter of election integrity.
?? ??As I had noticed, the 24 counties in question are quite sparsely populated, accounting for 0.73% of the registered voters in the State of Texas.? Rogers explained that a number of these counties "have no county chairmen (particularly on the Republican side).? With no county chairman, there is no one to organize or run a primary.? Perversely, some of the counties with no Republican chairmen consistently go Republican at the top of the ticket in November, but all the local officials are Democrats."
???? I was startled by the explanation.? It seems that there were no Republican primaries in 21 counties, and no Democratic primaries in three counties.? This would explain the numbers, but it would still be a fact that voters of one party or another are disenfranchised, countywide, in many counties in Texas.? To me, this seemed unacceptable in a democracy.
???? Rogers replied that, unacceptable or not, this is the most likely explanation for the results I observed.? "Republicans have been disenfranchised like this in Texas for over a century (in fact, getting the number of no-Republican-primary counties below 25 is a recent and remarkable achievement.)"
???? Rogers explained that while ballots, voting machines, and election workers are all paid for by the state government, the local parties at the county level have to bear the costs of administration and accounting; and they have to find someone to do the paperwork, and somewhere to store the paper.? "The costs in time and money to the parties aren't much, but they aren't nothing."
???? "The failure is almost entirely organizational," Rogers said.? "The state party tries to help the local counties some, so which counties have no party changes some from year to year, but the state party can?t force the locals to
organize if they don?t want to."
???? "If there aren?t enough Republicans in a county to organize themselves and pay the costs required," Rogers concluded, "I would say the Republicans are self-disenfranchising."? A "party whose members can?t bestir themselves enough to set up a primary obviously aren?t that interested."
???? I deeply appreciate Rogers? explanation.? In short, political parties at the county level can decide not to participate in a primary election by deciding not to organize for it and not to pay administrative, accounting, and storage costs.? In the disinterested counties, interested voters must undertake to organize the primary themselves and to find some way to bear the financial burden, or vote in the other party?s primary, or not vote at all.
???? For the record, in the 21 counties in which there was no Republican primary last Tuesday, Kerry outpolled Bush by 21,089 to 19,732 in the 2004 presidential election, and Bell (the Democrat) outpolled Perry (the Republican) by 9,508 to 6,820 in the 2006 gubernatorial election.? In the three counties in which there was no Democratic primary last Tuesday, Bush outpolled Kerry by 3,194 to 456 in 2004, and Perry outpolled Bell by 1,279 to 208 in 2006.
???? The fact that these counties are sparsely populated does not make me feel any better about the disenfranchisement of their voters.? There are 93,131 registered voters in these 24 counties.? Failure to engage in political organizing should not be grounds to deny or abridge the right to vote.
??? But far be it from me to tell the State of Texas how to run its elections.? In the State of New York we have our own methods of voter disenfranchisement.? Voters had to declare their party affiliation by October 12, 2007 in order to vote in the presidential primary of February 5, 2008.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Richard Hayes Phillips, Ph.D.
March 5, 2008
?
?
???? Didn't anybody notice this?
?
???? It is now 24 hours after the polls closed in Texas.? In 21 counties, with 100% of precincts reporting, nobody voted in the Republican presidential primary.? In three counties, with 100% of precincts reporting, nobody voted in the Democratic presidential primary.
???? In the 21 counties with no Republican voters, there were 87,919 registered voters, and 36,239 ballots cast, all of them Democratic.
???? In the three counties with no Democratic voters, there were 5,212 registered voters, and 1,865 ballots cast, all of them Republican.
???? In Maverick County, all 9,661 ballots cast were Democratic.? In Hansford County, all 1,235 ballots cast were Republican.
ONE-PARTY TEXAS COUNTIES, PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY, 2008
County????????????? Registered??? Republican??? Democratic
??????????????????? Voters ?????? Votes???????? Votes
Armstrong??????????? 1404??????? ? 369????????? ?? 0
Borden??????????????? 432???????? ?? 0????????? ?139
Brooks ?????? ?????? 6385???????? ?? 0????????? 3185
Cottle ?????? ?????? 1230???????? ?? 0????????? ?471
Crockett????? ?????? 2654???????? ?? 0????????? 1166
Culberson???? ?????? 1959???????? ?? 0????????? ?526
Dickens?????? ?????? 1410???????? ?? 0????????? ?612
Duval???????? ?????? 9331???????? ?? 0????????? 5053
Foard???????? ?????? 1043???????? ?? 0?????????? 432
Hall????????? ?????? 2110???????? ?? 0?????????? 813
Hansford???????????? 3101???????? 1235????????? ?? 0
Hardeman????? ?????? 2969???????? ?? 0????????? 1086
Hudspeth????? ?????? 1557???????? ?? 0???????? ? 476
Kent????????? ?????? ?665???????? ?? 0???????? ? 250
La Salle????? ?????? 4071???????? ?? 0????????? 1392
Loving????????????????116???????? ?? 0????????? ? 22
Maverick????????????26224???????? ?? 0????????? 9661
Reeves??????? ?????? 6337???????? ?? 0????????? 2228
Roberts?????????????? 707???????? ?261????????? ?? 0
Stonewall????????????1087????????????0?????????? 483
Throckmorton???????? 1175??????????? 0???????????513
Upton??????????????? 2139??????????? 0???????????823
Zapata??????? ?????? 7148? ?????? ?? 0????????? 3190
Zavala??????? ?????? 7877???????? ?? 0????????? 3718
???? But don?t take my word for it.? See for yourself.
http://enr.sos.state.tx.us/enr/mar04_135_race0.htm
http://enr.sos.state.tx.us/enr/mar04_136_race0.htm
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#TX
???? Election officials in the State of Texas have some explaining to do.
Richard Hayes Phillips is the author of the definitive book on the 2004 presidential election in Ohio ? "Witness to a Crime: A Citizens? Audit of an American Election."? For more information: richardhayesphillips@yahoo.com

[ronpaulbillboards]

If you're adding up all of the county's results listed on the page for TX-14, did you account for the 30,000 people who don't vote in TX-14 in those counties but actually vote for TX-22? If you add in the 30,000 you get close to the 94806 Presidential votes. Add in the fact that many people don't vote for positions they aren't familiar w/ and you have a simple reason.

I have an Excel spreadsheet I'm looking at right now with figures properly accounted for. 9077 people voted for Dr. Paul in TX-14 and some of TX-22 for President; 37220 voted for Dr. Paul for Congress. Unless you want to extrapolate precinct by precinct, those aren't terrible odds. That having been said, my own quick sum shows a bit more than 13000 votes not accounted for between the Congressional totals in those counties and the Presidential totals in those counties. Even if all 13462 that I haven't accounted for were added back in as votes for Congressman Paul, his percentage across all of those counties would only go up to 12%.

Again, you are basing your argument on a theory that because Texas is an independent-spirited state (hint, as a resident of multiple areas of Texas over the past 27 years, it isn't anymore), these figures can't be correct. Apparently, bad math is also playing a role.

Just because people vote for an incumbent in one part of a ticket doesn't mean they'll vote for the same person (who is at the bottom of the ballot!) in another.

Your totals are wrong because there is a total 0f 69,000 votes for Ron Paul for president in the whole state of Texas.

What we are concerned about is the fact that 54,000 people voted for Ron Paul for Congressman in his district 14 which is the only ballot he was on.
In contrast those same voters in District 14 totaled 9,000 for President.

It just seems very strange that 45,000 people voted for an candidate that is 180 degrees against the person they voted for Congressman to represent their district. I would believe it if was reverse, like 45,000 of the 54,000 voted him for President.

Also the fact that he almost received as many votes in one district for Congressman versus Presidential votes for an entire state as big as Texas.

This is the home base for Ron Paul. It's weird and if we have a shot at exposing election fraud I believe this is it based on the difference in votes for the same person in the district. If anything positive can come from this landslide loss, it would be to expose election fraud.

Hopefully there are some people looking at this.

[ronpaulbillboards]

Maybe 45,000 of the voters were Democrats and Independents who were really concerned with the Congressional race. Why? This could be a possibility but I don't see any of these parties concerned about a Congressional race when the Clinton\Obama show is going on.

[hyoomen]

Your totals are wrong because there is a total 0f 69,000 votes for Ron Paul for president in the whole state of Texas.

What we are concerned about is the fact that 54,000 people voted for Ron Paul for Congressman in his district 14 which is the only ballot he was on.
In contrast those same voters in District 14 totaled 9,000 for President.

It just seems very strange that 45,000 people voted for an candidate that is 180 degrees against the person they voted for Congressman to represent their district. I would believe it if was reverse, like 45,000 of the 54,000 voted him for President.

Also the fact that he almost received as many votes in one district for Congressman versus Presidential votes for an entire state as big as Texas.

This is the home base for Ron Paul. It's weird and if we have a shot at exposing election fraud I believe this is it based on the difference in votes for the same person in the district. If anything positive can come from this landslide loss, it would be to expose election fraud.

Hopefully there are some people looking at this.
What results are you looking at?

http://enr.sos.state.tx.us/enr/mar04_135_race4.htm indicates that he received 37220 votes for TX-14 Congress of 53,033 total votes cast for either of the two candidates in that race.

By clicking on the individual counties you can further see that 94806 votes were cast in those counties for President. When you factor out the 28311 votes cast for TX-22 instead of TX-14, the total number of TX-14 votes for President is 66495. This indicates a total of 13462 votes were people who voted in the Presidential race but not the TX-14 Congressional Race. If anything, my reading of the stats was in favor of Ron Paul, and more realistically, 13,462 people decided to only vote in their Presidential Primaries and left out Ron Paul's Congressional bid altogether.

This would actually be in line with the idea that people weren't as interested in his Congressional bid as RPF people would like to believe. Please show me what 54,000 people you are talking about.

Again, I'd love to see actual affidavits demonstrating voter fraud. I really would. But in the mean time don't try to drum up conspiracy charges until you know you are correct and demonstrate it to everybody beyond a shadow of a doubt.

-Rob

[SteveMartin]

Some will always believe the government is honest and wouldn't cheat.

Some have seen the cheating with their own eyes and know it is real.

Too bad our entire campaign staff was made up of the former, or we could have broken through and done something, but they dissed anyone who ever brought up even blatant and totally documented front-end fraud.

[ronpaulbillboards]

What results are you looking at?

http://enr.sos.state.tx.us/enr/mar04_135_race4.htm indicates that he received 37220 votes for TX-14 Congress of 53,033 total votes cast for either of the two candidates in that race.

By clicking on the individual counties you can further see that 94806 votes were cast in those counties for President. When you factor out the 28311 votes cast for TX-22 instead of TX-14, the total number of TX-14 votes for President is 66495. This indicates a total of 13462 votes were people who voted in the Presidential race but not the TX-14 Congressional Race. If anything, my reading of the stats was in favor of Ron Paul, and more realistically, 13,462 people decided to only vote in their Presidential Primaries and left out Ron Paul's Congressional bid altogether.

This would actually be in line with the idea that people weren't as interested in his Congressional bid as RPF people would like to believe. Please show me what 54,000 people you are talking about.

Again, I'd love to see actual affidavits demonstrating voter fraud. I really would. But in the mean time don't try to drum up conspiracy charges until you know you are correct and demonstrate it to everybody beyond a shadow of a doubt.

-Rob

Again what results are YOU looking at.

For the last time the total votes for Ron Paul for President in Texas in all counties is 69,954.

http://enr.sos.state.tx.us/enr/mar04_135_state.htm

If you add all the totals for casted for Ron Paul in District 14 for Congressman it's 54,000 votes.

District 22 is not a good reference because it isn't his Congressional district thus people can't vote him for Congressman.

We are contrasting the votes casted in district 14 by the same people and the fact that they overwhelmingly chose him for their Congressman vs President.

Don't compare counties and add this or that. Just look at the votes casted for him for Congressman and President in District 14 counties. These are the same people voting and they chose to support him as Congressman but not for President on the same ballot when they voted. This is all we are illustrating with this data, if it's legit or fraud it's up for you and the experts to decide.

I'm just saying it's weird either way it goes, this is about as simple as I can put it.

[haaaylee]

Maybe 45,000 of the voters were Democrats and Independents who were really concerned with the Congressional race. Why? This could be a possibility but I don't see any of these parties concerned about a Congressional race when the Clinton\Obama show is going on.

This wouldn't be possible though, if you voted for a republican in the congressional race you would be bound to vote republican for the president as well. You can't vote twice.

[haaaylee]

What results are you looking at?

http://enr.sos.state.tx.us/enr/mar04_135_race4.htm indicates that he received 37220 votes for TX-14 Congress of 53,033 total votes cast for either of the two candidates in that race.

By clicking on the individual counties you can further see that 94806 votes were cast in those counties for President. When you factor out the 28311 votes cast for TX-22 instead of TX-14, the total number of TX-14 votes for President is 66495. This indicates a total of 13462 votes were people who voted in the Presidential race but not the TX-14 Congressional Race. If anything, my reading of the stats was in favor of Ron Paul, and more realistically, 13,462 people decided to only vote in their Presidential Primaries and left out Ron Paul's Congressional bid altogether.

This would actually be in line with the idea that people weren't as interested in his Congressional bid as RPF people would like to believe. Please show me what 54,000 people you are talking about.

Again, I'd love to see actual affidavits demonstrating voter fraud. I really would. But in the mean time don't try to drum up conspiracy charges until you know you are correct and demonstrate it to everybody beyond a shadow of a doubt.

-Rob


You're not adding in the early votes, that's where people are coming up with two numbers. The 37,220 is only the March 4th day of votes. You have to add in the 16,951 early votes (I.E. 54,171)

[Proemio]

Some will always believe the government is honest and wouldn't cheat.

Some have seen the cheating with their own eyes and know it is real.

Too bad our entire campaign staff was made up of the former...

Not likely, regarding the last sentence.

In October I started to compile a list of faux-pas by TheCampaign on another site, and ended the effort almost as soon, stating: "It's not possible for chance to allow for a rapid series of odd decisions to all result in negative consequences. The law of averages requires at least an occasional screw-up with brilliant results."

I then wrote a few hundred lines here, trying to paint the necessary distinction between TheCampaign and Ron Paul, and why this is systemically unavoidable, while also telling us absolutely nothing about Ron's managerial capabilities as President. That preposterous inference was very ably - and often - exploited by the establishment team, and my words were quickly buried and ignored.

I also argued that Paul could not just dump TheCampaign (as for example McCain did), even though I am confident that he was perfectly aware of the situation all along. That also has everything to do with the rigged system itself.

Now he can, and has done it - the unavoidable albatross is going or gone. You already have soon-to-be former staffers handing self-serving statements to the media, reinforcing the impression that Paul is calling it quits. They wish... Anyone actually contemplating the man's words will realize that notion to be the furthest from the truth.

Paul is simply recognizing that the biggest movement in generations cannot move TheSystem even an inch "Though victory in the conventional political sense is not available in the presidential race..."; something, some of us have contended from the beginning. This reality had first to be convincingly demonstrated in order to have a solid footing from where to move to the next phase. That great grassroots' effort in the preceeding months was essential, because it forced TheSystem to pull out all the stops and reveal it's weakness and ugly face, by doing so.

Both Ron Paul and the rest of us are now free to start the process of overwhelming the self-preservation defenses of TheSystem - mostly smoke and mirrors.

Nothing has changed. As before, Ron Paul will only give up if we do, and probably not even then.

No reason to feel dejected, - the fun part is only just beginning. I believe that we are in much better shape than most imagine...

[ronpaulbillboards]

This wouldn't be possible though, if you voted for a republican in the congressional race you would be bound to vote republican for the president as well. You can't vote twice.

You are right in that aspect, you would only receive a republican ballot so you could only vote Republican in the Primary
But in the general election in Texas, you can vote for whoever and are not bound to a party.
I thought you were bound at the general election level but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Excerpt from Texas election rules

Voting in the Primary Elections

If you are a registered voter in the state of Texas, you will simply choose your party and vote in that party's primary. To explain, we do not register by party in Texas. One becomes "affiliated" with a party by voting in a party's primary and the affiliation lasts for that primary year. As an example, if a voter voted in the March 2006 primary or April 2006 runoff primary, the voter affiliated with that party for the rest of that year, but on December 31, 2006 the affiliation expired. The affiliation means that the person may not vote in another party’s primary or participate in another party’s convention or sign an independent candidate’s petition for place on the ballot if the independent candidate’s position appears on the primary ballot.
Note that in the general election in November, a voter may vote for whomever he/she wishes, regardless of how or whether he/she voted in the primary or runoff primary election, since all candidates are on the same ballot.

[haaaylee]

You are right in that aspect, you would only receive a republican ballot so you could only vote Republican.
But in the general election in Texas, you can vote for whoever and are not bound to a party.
I thought you were bound at the general election level but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Excerpt from Texas election rules

Voting in the Primary Elections

If you are a registered voter in the state of Texas, you will simply choose your party and vote in that party's primary. To explain, we do not register by party in Texas. One becomes "affiliated" with a party by voting in a party's primary and the affiliation lasts for that primary year. As an example, if a voter voted in the March 2006 primary or April 2006 runoff primary, the voter affiliated with that party for the rest of that year, but on December 31, 2006 the affiliation expired. The affiliation means that the person may not vote in another party’s primary or participate in another party’s convention or sign an independent candidate’s petition for place on the ballot if the independent candidate’s position appears on the primary ballot.
Note that in the general election in November, a voter may vote for whomever he/she wishes, regardless of how or whether he/she voted in the primary or runoff primary election, since all candidates are on the same ballot.


edit: i get what you are saying now, that they wanted him for congress but will vote democratic in the general election. ..

[ronpaulbillboards]

Yes, so what some people are saying is that Democrats voted specifically for Ron Paul for Congressman to stop Peden. Does anyone believe this? Or the same people that voted for Ron Paul for Congressman then voted for McCain or Huckabee for President. Either way it's strange and some experts should be looking at it.

[syborius]

Yes, so what some people are saying is that Democrats voted specifically for Ron Paul for Congressman to stop Peden. Does anyone believe this? Or the same people that voted for Ron Paul for Congressman then voted for McCain or Huckabee for President. Either way it's strange and some experts should be looking at it.

I think there may have been a race of humanoid democrats summoned by the Vulcan Dennis Kucinich to vote for Ron Paul, arriving in a UFO together and marching in unison to the beat of "lets beatttt Pedddeennn"!!"Ack Ack Ack" "Vote for Ronnnn Paaauuulll" "Ack ack ack" haha..
Seriously, this notion that the Democrats got together to do this is probably the most ludicrous explanation I have heard yet..

[Danya]

How much sleep did you get on Monday night? I ask because Hyoomen got none - ZERO. I know because he was working at the Dallas Grassroots HQ ALL NIGHT with us - crunching numbers, recording responses and writing e-mails to possible supporters. He did leave to go to class around 1 in the afternoon and then he CAME BACK to get supporters going to the polls before he went to his own precinct convention at 7.

He's been working here IN DALLAS TEXAS - boots on the ground! You have the gall to call him a troll when he has served in Texas as nothing but a patriot? Unless you were standing outside the polling places in Texas on Tuesday you have no right to assume what went on here. We actually sent out e-mails asking people to man the polls during early voting because certain areas were reporting up to a 90percent response of people going to vote saying they were undecided! Poll what you like, we were there.

Texas is not the haven for revolution it once was. I've been attending the Republican clubs and functions - most of the Repub establishment is circling the wagons around McCain - regardless of his chances at victory in November. It's disgusting.

Our problem here was name recognition - most voters here aren't paying attention to the debates. They simply haven't heard the message.

What Hyoomen is reporting is the way he's seen it here - and he's been in the trenches as a witness. Just because someone has a difference of opinion does not make them a troll and you have nerve to accuse him of such when you have no idea.

[SteveMartin]

Well, if he isn't a troll, maybe he should stop posting like one. Dallas ain't Lake Jackson. Again, there is no way in hell that:

1. 40,000 people walked out of the polling stations without voting for anybody in their own congressional race.
2. They voted 70% for Ron Paul in the Congressional race and only 10% for Ron Paul in the Presidential race.

[hyoomen]

You're not adding in the early votes, that's where people are coming up with two numbers. The 37,220 is only the March 4th day of votes. You have to add in the 16,951 early votes (I.E. 54,171)

This is incorrect. On the site I referenced, "TOTAL" refers to both Early Voting and March 4th. "EARLY" only refers to Early Voting.

RonPaulBillboards: where are you receiving the number of votes placed for Ron Paul for President in TX-14? I was adding up the total number of votes for Ron Paul for President placed in the counties which TX-14 represents. Do you have another source which goes by Congressional District? I haven't seen a division of this nature for the Presidential race, but I'd be interested to see it.

BTW, what is really odd is that so few people chose to vote for Congressman Paul when so many people have donated and given so much to the campaign. At the end of all this, voter fraud or not, a huge number of his supporters simply gave up -- and that is a damned shame which we must daily work to reverse.

[constituent]

i'm surprised to see this thread still hobbling along.

when we perpetuate this sort of infighting, etc....
















WE ALL LOSE!







friends, or what?

[ronpaulbillboards]

It could be that some Ron Paul supporters gave up or just didn't show up at the polls.
What bothers me is that the Ron Paul support especially in Austin was so visible. It's everywhere, you would think he was the Mayor here or something. Then contrast that with not seeing none and I mean NO Huckabee or McCain signs or stickers. If people don't show up at the polls to vote then those people have only themselves to blame. To have McCain and Huckabee run away with the votes without any visible support is what is so strange.

I'm a delegate and will continue through the process to learn the inner workings of the system and to submit resolutions for a positive change.

[BigRedBrent]

Could be the party elite was worried Ron would go third party if he lost his seat.

I suspected this as well.

[CaseyJones]

bump