POLL about creating new main forum

[colecrowe]

Absolutely nothing will come from an indy run. You will only have a media blackout worse than it is now, and an even lower chance of winning the general election that now.

Why do you think that? What chance do we have of winning now? The same chance as Kucinich winning the Dem nomination: negative 10 percent.

Ross Perot only spent 64 million on his campaign--a little over 100 million in todays dollars. NOT BILLIONS. So anybody that says so is a fing idiot!--actually they are probably dishonest. And Ron Paul's grassroots is a hundred times more devoted and ready to sacrifice and fight. And the nay-sayers will say "We can't get on the ballots--it's impossible!" Oh, but Ross Perot could? Morons. And Ross Perot was in first place by 9 points (or 8--whatever it was) before he dropped out and said he was threatened (and he still got 19% of the vote--which is great--and Ron Paul is way more amazing than Perot, with way bigger support. And the conditions are similar--there was a recession in '92--now 70% of Americans polled think the economy is bad and likely to get worse, inflation is soaring and gas is still painfully expensive. And then you have the war. The Dems have the war, but they can't get the fiscal, immigration, gun, and school conservatives. The Republicans have what they have (i would argue, not much, with their current candidate, except they would be guaranteed 90% of the pro-war vote (so 30% maybe))--but 72% of Americans want the war to end.

the only reason Ron Paul wouldn't run indy is if he doesn't get overwhelming support for it. That is the only reason he ran in this race. If hundreds of thousands of people write him letters saying they want him to run, they will send money, and get signatures, and canvass, then he will do it. As one of those soldiers that has given to him and worked for his campaign, and knowing that so many of my buddies in Iraq and soon to go back want him to be President so bad, I feel like he will consider that and do it for us troops (and of course for everyone else)--but I mean, it has to mean something incredibly huge that the nation's troops want him as their commander in chief so badly! Please Mr. Paul, please run, please fight, and we will fight with you for a win...

If Ron Paul declared an indy run (after March 4th of course) then he could raise 25 million right off the bat. Everyone I know would give twice what they already have. We could get 200,000 precinct captains and get the 38 states back that are useless to us now in the Repub race because they've already voted, and have 7 months to canvass. Run a couple nationwide amazing infomercials.

Country over party. Remember what all the founders (the good ones) said about parties? Do you think they'd agree that Ron Paul should care more about offending the GOP than fighting for the Constitution, freedom, and government of the people?
* * *


We could have an entire forum, NOT A SUBFORUM OF G.C., devoted to "Independent/Third Party Run"... (I'm definitely for indy...but it doesn't matter for the Forum.)

Then we could give every state a ballot subforum. We could have 1 master "ballot" subforum for talk about meta-ballot issues, like legal challenges, places to find sources about ballot issues, etc.

There could be 1 main subforum for general discussion.

This poll is about numbers, not necessarily percentage. If a ton of us want one, that would be great to know.


March 4, 2008: Paul defeats Peden

March 5, 2008: Paul announces independent run

April 15, 2008: Paul sets new, single-day online fundraising record

June 1, 2008: Paul at 15% in multiple opinion polls

July 31, 2008: Paul, with double-digit support, accepts presidential debates invitation

September 1, 2008: McCain, Clinton and Paul in three-way tie in national polls

October 31, 2008: Race still neck-and-neck-and-neck

November 4, 2008: Paul wins

November 5, 2008: Paul resigns TX-14 U.S. House seat, Peden the favorite to win special election

January 20, 2009: Paul sworn in as 44th U.S. President

supporters of a Ron Paul Presidency (an indy run...not just supporters of the GOP like so many others here):

DFF
RonPaulFanInGA
Alex Libman
Andrew76
speciallyblend
mketcher
Airborn
rockandrollsouls
RollOn2day
Aidyl
Lovecraftian4Paul
Russellk30
FluffyUnbound
IDefendThePlatform
morerocklesstalk
TNFreedom
Madison
Seadeus
ndega360
Peace&Freedom
LibertyRevolution
Drknows
ronpaulyourmom
lonestarguy
colecrowe

=25

Please find more and more names of people on here that support an indy run.

Wait 'til March 4th, because things might turn around between now and then, and most importantly, because his congressional primary is on that day, and he needs to win that to maintain credibility or whatever.

But we need a way to show the people's support, in a huge way, for an independent run. We have to prove it to him. Obviously, it's his choice--duh. But he would have never started running in the first place if it wasn't for the humongous clamoring and promise of support from so many people. (I know we already have www.RonPaulWhiteHouse.com (http://www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com/), but I am thinking something way, way better and bigger.)

I have figured out, and so have many of you and many more on here, some really great facts and arguments that prove that an independent run would be wise and could be very successful. I am gathering them all together. Please help me in that. Please get more and more names of those who will support us.

I want to start a site like "draft Ron Paul for independent" or somesuch. I want people to be able to print off pledge forms and opinion survey forms that they can take around to family and coworkers, etc. Then they could come online and update us with their results, like people do on the precinct captain site.

I know from my experience that scores of people would be extremely excited about and supportive of an indy run. Tons of family, friends, and coworkers (especially my army buddies--tons of them would give a little cash) would give a bunch more (they aren't going to give anymore to him now--that's for sure) and my wife and I and a few other people I know would canvass and call.

So, anyway, let's get something started. Please get back to me and recruit others.

Well, you guys can go ahead and not give a crap about your country, but my brother and I are going to Iraq in August, so I actually give a crap, because I'd like Ron Paul to start bringing us home quickly in January, and then he could start sending us after al-Queda and Osama, etc. So, yeah, go ahead and call me "not a real RP supporter" or say that I "don't think he can win"--because I actually think it is incredibly important that he be our president, and I absolutely think he can win as an independent, and I care much, much more about ending the Iraq war, restoring freedom, and saving our economy than I do about the GOP. And how many Americans would love to start to take down the horrible two-party system? Most. (INCLUDING Ron Paul--the stupidest, most incredible thing that people use as an argument against an indy run, is that "Ron Paul has always been a Republican--he's the true Republican--he would lose credibility with the GOP (just forget that he has almost none now because 85% of Repubs are rabidly pro-war and most his primary votes came from new registrees)--blah, blah, blah--BUT they forget, Ron Paul hates the party system, just like the founders did. And what of his undying loyalty to the wonderful GOP? BS: he resigned from the GOP--and he's a lifetime member of the Libertarian Party.

[colecrowe]

AHHHHHHH STOP IT GOT DAMN IT!!!!!

HE WON'T GET THE HUGE SUPPORT YOU THINK HE WILL IN ANY POLL!!!!

STOP BEING DELUSIONAL!

You are part of the people that make the grassroots look like idiots and lunatics. Fucking stop it.

Why do you say that? If so, why are you here and why did you give huge amounts of time and money to Ron Paul? So he could get huge support and win the Presidency. We just went after the completely wrong base, GOP voters, who are 85% die-hard pro Iraq War and pro USA PATRIOT Act.

You just said he won't get any big amount of support--so, do you think he is going to win at the Convention? How is he going to do that, without huge support? And if he did, 70% of Republican voters would still be against him and laugh at the Convention results. But only a complete psychotic retard could ever think Ron Paul will win at the Convention, let alone get to speak at it. Speak at it? He is against the war and against McCain, he said he wouldn't endorse him.

They will not let him speak. And what good will it do. Buchanan spoke at the convention.

Listen, people are constantly asking me, "When is Ron Paul going to announce that he is running independent?" They are desperate for it.


If you want Ron Paul to run for 3rd party then you are unfaithful and coward!

I'm so tired of this crap!

If you don't want Ron Paul to run indy, then you don't want what's best for this country. If you don't think he can win, then you are being willfully blind, and contradicting what you thought for so long: it was going to be extremely, awesomely tough for him to win the Nomination considering that 85% of GOP voters were for the war, but you supported him then, and you thought he could win it, and win the general if he got it.

And, by the way, how about you go join the military and join me and all those troops that were trying their hardest to send a message to Ron Paul and the country by donating overwhelmingly to him. Aholes.

I have given so much to Ron Paul, but I also have hope that he will win the white house... even if it means going iNDY, which I think is, by far, the best option.

You want me to put up or shut up, well then here (this is besides the over 300 cold calls and 200 houses I've canvassed, plus more crap--this doesn't count the $100 for the MLK money bomb, the $51 for the Anniversary money bomb, the 250 for the danged blimp, the 250 for something else I don't even remember now, plus 100 here and another 100 there, plus about 75 for my meetup collection baskets!):

this doesn't include another 100 and 100 for his congressional seat

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=name&lname=crowe&fname=justin&search=Search
Donor Contribution Address
Justin Crowe

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/gmaps/images/elephant.png Soldier (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=occ&occ=Soldier)
Nevada Army National Guard (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=emp&employer=Nevada+Army+National+Guard)
Updated
Q4/2007
Ron Paul (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topics/Ron+Paul)
$752
2572 HEYBOURNE RD (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=loc&addr=2572+HEYBOURNE+RD&zip=89423)
Minden (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=city&city=Minden) NV
Here's my wife: $201

Donor Contribution Address
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/gmaps/images/elephant.png Army Spouse (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=occ&occ=Army+Spouse)
Army Spouse (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=emp&employer=Army+Spouse)


Donor Contribution Address
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/gmaps/images/elephant.png Retired, Veteran (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=occ&occ=Retired%2C+Veteran)
US Army Veteran, WWII (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=emp&employer=US+Army+Veteran%2C+WWII)
Updated
Q4/2007
Ron Paul (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topics/Ron+Paul)
$1,776
2572 HEYBOURNE RD (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=loc&addr=2572+HEYBOURNE+RD&zip=89423)
Minden (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=city&city=Minden) NV
Here's my father in law:

Donor Contribution Address
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/gmaps/images/elephant.png Veteran (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=occ&occ=Veteran)
Veteran Army National Guard (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=emp&employer=Veteran+Army+National+Guard)
Updated
Q4/2007
Ron Paul (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topics/Ron+Paul)
$201
1401 DOWNS DR (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=loc&addr=1401+DOWNS+DR&zip=89423)
Minden (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=city&city=Minden) NV

My dad's doesn't show up, even though he gave 100.




Paul has said repeatedly that he will not run 3rd party. Why would he lie to us like that?

No he hasn't!

He was absolutely right--and honest--to say that he "has no intention of going iNDEPENDENT or Third Party" because, right now (at least before today's results), his only intention is to win the Republican nomination. He 100% fully intends (or intended) to wholeheartedly run and try his best to win as a Republican while he is running as such, and he says so. He has NEVER, EVER said "I will not run iNDY". He has never, ever said "I will never run iNDY". But IF it becomes clear he cannot win the nomination, then he can go independent.

I would be very, very, very sad if he didn't go iNDY. He could win it, especially against Hillary (and she seems like the chosen one (it's all about the superdelegates).

Ron Paul said that he will continue to run as long as he continues to get support: canvassing and financing. He's not stupid. He will be able to see when continuing to run Republican will be a futile waste. Then if he has the support he mentioned, he will have to keep going. Key points:

1. A brokered convention is not going to happen.

2. Canvassing is done for almost all the states as of now, unless he goes iNDY. If he goes iNDY, on the other hand, we would have 7 months to canvass and get 200,000 plus precinct captains.

3. ...:

my dad said he'd donate another 500 to Paul (IF he announces 3rd party) (he donated 200 on Dec. 16th--but that was when it seemed like he REALLY could maybe, possibly win the Nom. I would donate 500 the day he declares (even though it will hurt financially), whereas I can't afford to give anymore (I gave just over a 1,100 in Q4 to the cause--so shut up) for his Republican run; and gramps would probably wager another 1776.00

The 2nd and 3rd tier, broader-base of supporters aren't (many or most of them) going to donate MORE--if they already have once--because TO THEM it is obvious or at least nearly certain that he's not going to get the Nom from the Republican party (I'm not saying I believe that--but they DO). However, they would be very willing and enthusiastic about supporting him in an iNDEPENDENT run.


**********
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/poll-an-independent-president/

July 20, 2007, 5:08 pm Poll: An Independent President (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/poll-an-independent-president/)

By Megan Thee (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/author/mthee/)

In a New York Times/CBS News Poll taken last week, half of Americans said a president who is neither a Republican nor a Democrat could govern effectively.
And with 6 in 10 Republican primary voters and almost 4 in 10 Democratic primary voters saying they are not satisfied with their party’s current slate of candidates for the presidential nomination, the political environment could be ripe for an independent candidate to break into the race.
[THAT'S HALF]
Michael Bloomberg, a newly minted independent who says he’s not intent on making a run for the White House even though he just switched affiliations, is largely unknown by most Americans. Six in 10 registered voters said they haven’t heard enough about him yet to have an opinion; 9 percent view him favorably; 9 percent unfavorably; and 18 percent said they are undecided.
The current poll suggests that Americans are significantly more optimistic about the chances of a third-party president meeting with success, than they were in 1995 before the Bill Clinton-Bob Dole-Ross Perot contest. In the summer of 1995, just 30 percent of Americans said an independent president could govern effectively and 61 percent said such a president would encounter serious problems dealing with Congress.
Forty-four percent of those polled recently said such a president would have trouble dealing with Congress.

Independents and Republicans are significantly more supportive of a third-party president than are Democrats. Similarly, younger Americans are more open to the idea of an independent president — as respondent age increases, the incidence of those saying an independent could govern effectively decreases.


**********
Yeah--we couldn't get on the ballots WITH SEVEN MONTHS TO DO SO?! Whatever. What a bunch of crap. How the F did Perot do it? We have way more grassroots than he did. And DON'T SAY, "With his billions." He spent 65 million--look on wikipedia. What cost $65000000 in 1990 would cost $107,402,877.98 in 2007. source: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi


You know what's really "never gonna happen"? The Republican nomination. So for people that want ONE THING and one thing only--Ron Paul to be in the whitehouse--an iNDY run must be discussed. For all you that care more about "changing the GOP", fine--you can continue to argue your point that that would be better than a Ron Paul win in the General.


An independent run is virtually impossible.
The ballot access battle is ridiculously difficult and would never happen
if Ron Paul tried to go independent.

With the sheer numbers of grassroots supporters already keyed in
the feasibility of undercutting the MSM stranglehold in the general election exists.
The organization does not cease to exist - who wants to abandon hope?
Not while we are still organized - that would be nuts.
Let us keep this thing together - no matter what.

The biggest part of making a third-party run is already in place.

The only realistic choice is to go with the Libertarian Party.

I won't vote for anyone but Ron Paul, no matter what happens.

But all this is still premature - let's wait for the results.
It is only a few hours until all the rest of the cards are on the table.


**********
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287190,00.html
FOX News Poll: Third Party President Good for Country

Thursday, June 28, 2007
By Dana Blanton
http://www.foxnews.com/images/foxnews_story.gif
E-MAIL STORY (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287190,00.html#)
PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION (http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,287190,00.html)NEW YORK — Nearly half of Americans think it would be good for the country if an independent candidate (http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:siteSearch%28%27independent%20candidate%27%29 ;) won the 2008 presidential election, according to the latest FOX News Poll. And despite acknowledging the improbability of the candidate winning, a majority says they would consider voting for an independent for president.
Opinion Dynamics Corp. conducted the national telephone poll of 900 registered voters for FOX News from June 26 to June 27. The poll has a 3-point error margin.
More than twice as many voters think it would be good for the country if an independent candidate were to win the White House in 2008 than think it would be bad (45 percent good, 19 percent bad). In addition, there is rare partisan agreement on the issue as 42 percent of Democrats and 44 percent of Republicans think electing an independent candidate would be good for the country, as do 56 percent of self-described independents.
• Click here to view full results of the poll. (pdf) (http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/062807_release_web.pdf)
Furthermore, a 67 percent majority says they would consider casting their ballot for an independent — including more than 6 in 10 Democrats and Republicans.
Even so, most people believe independent candidates have little chance of success: 31 percent of voters think a qualified independent has a reasonable chance of winning a presidential election, while a 63 percent majority thinks it’s unlikely.
(Story continues below)
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FOX News Poll: Third Party President Good for Country (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287190,00.html)
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FOX News Poll: Public Says Enforce Existing Immigration Laws (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,282375,00.html)Full-page FNC Poll Archive (http://www.foxnews.com/column_archive/0,2976,86,00.html)"It appears that many voters believe a vote for a candidate who has little chance of winning still is not a wasted vote," said Opinion Dynamics Vice President Lawrence Shiman. "A substantial percentage of both parties are willing to consider supporting independent candidacies regardless of the candidate’s chances of winning."
Given the amount of attention to New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s party affiliation switch from Republican to independent, and the subsequent speculation about him entering the 2008 race, the poll asked people how they would vote in a 3-way race.
The recent media coverage fails to move the numbers much from earlier in the month. Bloomberg’s 7 percent support is unchanged, and obviously puts him far behind the major party front-runners Democrat Hillary Clinton (39 percent) and Republican Rudy Giuliani (37 percent).
Paris Better Known Than Romney, Thompson
Among the presidential hopefuls, Giuliani is not only one of the best known, but he also continues to be viewed the most positively, receiving a 54 percent favorable rating. Most voters are also familiar with Republican candidate John McCain — 47 percent have a favorable opinion of him and only 5 percent don’t know him.
Republicans Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson are much less well known than the other Republican and Democratic candidates. In fact, more people say they have "never heard of" Thompson, Romney and Bloomberg, than Paris Hilton — only 7 percent of Americans were unable to express an opinion of her.
Today, even though one in five Americans (22 percent) say they have never heard of Romney, that represents a noticeable improvement from earlier this year when 43 percent didn’t know him (Jan. 30-31, 2007). However, as many voters have an unfavorable opinion of Romney (26 percent) as have a favorable opinion (25 percent). His favorable rating is 39 percent among Republicans.
Thompson’s name recognition is also picking up — 32 percent say they have never heard of him today, down from 53 percent in March. His favorable rating is 30 percent overall and 46 percent among Republicans, with 16 percent of all voters holding an unfavorable view.
For Bloomberg, 20 percent have never heard of him, an improvement from 35 percent last month (15-16 May 2007). Bloomberg’s current favorable rating is 23 percent, with 24 percent holding an unfavorable view. Attitudes toward Bloomberg are similar among Democrats (25 percent favorable) and Republicans (22 percent favorable).
The Democratic contenders are well known to voters, as majorities are able to offer an opinion on each of them. About half of Americans have a favorable view of John Edwards (49 percent), Clinton (46 percent) and Barack Obama (46 percent). Al Gore’s favorable rating is 48 percent.
For a political comparison, President Bush’s current favorable rating is 37 percent and virtually all Americans express an opinion.
For a popular culture comparison, 7 percent of Americans say they have a favorable opinion of Paris Hilton (73 percent unfavorable) and 7 percent have never heard of her.
Standings in the Primaries
In the race for the Republican nomination, Giuliani retains the leader spot at 29 percent followed by McCain at 17 percent, Thompson at 15 percent, Romney at 8 percent and Newt Gingrich at 8 percent. Giuliani is up 7 points from earlier this month, though still 10 percentage points down from 39 percent in February.
Among Democrats, Clinton strengthens her front-runner status with the support of 42 percent (up 6 points), followed by Obama at 19 percent (down 4 points), Gore at 14 percent and Edwards at 10 percent.
When Gore is taken out of the mix, Clinton’s standing improves to 47 percent, Obama 21 percent and Edwards 13 percent.
Where People Are Learning About The Candidates
Television clearly is the most popular place to get information about the presidential candidates, but there are certainly many other options these days. The poll finds that 88 percent of voters are getting information about the candidates from television coverage, 69 percent from newspapers and 51 percent radio coverage.
Internet news sites are a source for 38 percent of Americans, which is distinguished from these specific online sources: 11 percent say they use blogs, 7 percent YouTube and 4 percent use MySpace to learn about the candidates.
About twice as many Americans think Conservative radio talk shows (38 percent) have more influence on politics these days than Liberal Internet blogs (17 percent).
Finally, 53 percent of voters today think it is too early for the 2008 presidential candidates to be campaigning — up from 47 percent who thought so four months ago (February 13-14).

[colecrowe]

AHHHHHHH STOP IT GOT DAMN IT!!!!!

HE WON'T GET THE HUGE SUPPORT YOU THINK HE WILL IN ANY POLL!!!!

STOP BEING DELUSIONAL!

You are part of the people that make the grassroots look like idiots and lunatics. Fucking stop it.

Look at your post again and tell me who looks like an idiot. You guys do so much in Grassroots Central, don't you? What are you all here for anyway, if you don't support "RON PAUL'S 2008 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN"?

I think about 80% of the 200 or so thousand people that donated, and most the people that canvassed wished and still wish that he would go independent. He polled at 11-15% as an independent candidate in a national poll asking Obama, McCain, Bloomberg or Paul

Whereas he never got above 8% in the GOP base.

And only the GOP base has been canvassed and targeted.

[theantirobot]

I am creating a social news site (forum) which intends to be so compelling, it will draw people away from televised and print news. It will be a simple way of injecting our message into the mainstream. http://www.newsgo.us is a heavily funded project currently in development by me and another member of this forum. Make the most of it by joining our growing community. Subscribe to the feed at the site and befriend us on myspace.

myspace.com/newsgo

[colecrowe]

Thank you for the good, reasoned post. Great info. But I disagree with you saying that we will lose "substantial support". We don't have substantial support. We have like 8% support--at the VERY most (average it out--and be realistic--you will agree it's 8% at the very most--and it's way too late for a brokered convention).

I disagree and don't think we get support mainly from christian/republican types--I think that is unique to your experience--and besides, that ground obviously isn't that fertile compared to other, broader ground--just look at our results, even in Michigan, your example. But, also, I absolutely have never thought we would get our support from pot smokers, truthers, etc.

Our support comes, and will come in a HUGE way if we go iNDY, from people who are anti-war, pro-constitution, and most importantly TIRED OF BEING LIED TO, TIRED OF LOBBYISTS, AND HUNGRY FOR THE TYPE OF STATESMAN ONLY RON PAUL IS.

People will vote for Ron Paul for his record that is so amazing, and so different, even if they disagree with some of his stances. Proof: The same exact thing made me, my wife, my father-in-law, father, grandpa-in-law, and on and on (including many family members I never proselytized to!) choose Paul: HIS HONESTY--the fact that he's not a "politician" like ALL the others. Once they hear that he has never gotten lobbyist money, never changed his stances, AND ONCE THEY HEAR HIM SPEAK, they are hooked.

But not the GOP sheep--the pro Iraq war types. That is why we have to get out of the GOP.

If we go iNDY, we will also get all the anti-war GOPers. Plus, we might get more GOPers than that if McCain is the nominee--because of immigration and character (he cheated on his wife and is married to his mistress now).

Plus, we haven't got to capitalize on running anti-war ads, especially with veterans in them supporting him. We need to make a much bigger deal about the amazing amount of money he raised from military members (more than all the Republicans put together) in ads, etc.

We also haven't capitalized on his being an Obstetrician for 30 years, and so much more. His name recognition is extremely dismal--we need a fresh start with exposure in every state--not just those left in the GOP race.



I've done A LOT of work for the campaign in Michigan and have met many different supporters. I can say with certainty that in Michigan, the majority of Ron Paul supporters are Republicans or disaffected Republicans. The majority are also Christians.

These boards are NOT representative of who is voting for us.

I'd estimate (from Michigan) we have about 65% of some type of Republicans making up our voters and about 75% Christians. The number of truthers that support Ron Paul is also very low I'd estimate about 10 to 15 percent. Again this is from my experience in Michigan.

If you looked at these forums, you'd think the majority were liberal atheists, and that may well be true about these forums, but now out in the real world.

I'd also like to add there are major discrepancies between the average Ron Paul voter and the "hardcore supporters"

Atheists, marijuana activists, peace activists, and truthers make up a disproportionate part of our "hardcore" supporters.

This is all very important and you need to think about the big picture. If we run independent, you can expect everyone on the forums and all the hardcore supporters to still supporter Ron Paul, but we're going to lose a substantial chunk of our base. If you think that people who already vote for Ron Paul won't vote for the Republican nominee, you haven't been talking enough to our casual voters, and believe me we have MANY of them.

Wherever Ron goes, I'll vote for him, but be aware many will not. How many of you have actually worked for a 3rd party candidate that is not a billionaire?

If you think things are bad now, you haven't seen anything yet.

[BuddyRey]

Agreed. Look, I've tried to look at this race pragmatically as anyone else has, and I really thought RP could get the Republican nomination, but I think what we really need to re-galvanize grassroots efforts and get people hopeful and excited about the Revolution again is a BIG, BOLD MOVE!!!

An Indy run would be the talk of the blogosphere, enormous news (even if the MSM ignored it), and would shake the political establishment to its foundations. The cannons and fanfare of a Ron Paul '08 Indy run would make Perot '92 look like a Saturday afternoon paintball match in the park.

Even conservatives are livid with the GOP right now for propping up an uninspiring centrist with a shady history and an embarrassing voting record. Even neocons don't like war as much as they like saving countless trillions of dollars in wasteful government spending. Having to choose between a very frugal, fiscally responsible peacenik and a hawkish spendthrift, we have the neocons between a rock and a hard place (or...Iraq and a hard place!)

I heard last week that Rush Limbaugh's planning on voting for Hillary over McCain, which made me bust a gut laughing, because it proves that the so-called "conservatives" who are so quick to take up that mantle are usually anything but conservative. Still, they would HAVE to get behind a Paul/Barr or Paul/Goldwater ticket, or face being completely discredited and exposed for the shills they are.

[colecrowe]

" but I think what we really need to re-galvanize grassroots efforts and get people hopeful and excited about the Revolution again is a BIG, BOLD MOVE!!! "

AWESOME!

BuddyRey
DFF
RonPaulFanInGA
Alex Libman
Andrew76
speciallyblend
mketcher
Airborn
rockandrollsouls
RollOn2day
Aidyl
Lovecraftian4Paul
Russellk30
FluffyUnbound
IDefendThePlatform
morerocklesstalk
TNFreedom
Madison
Seadeus
ndega360
Peace&Freedom
LibertyRevolution
Drknows
ronpaulyourmom
lonestarguy
colecrowe

=26


Agreed. Look, I've tried to look at this race pragmatically as anyone else has, and I really thought RP could get the Republican nomination, but I think what we really need to re-galvanize grassroots efforts and get people hopeful and excited about the Revolution again is a BIG, BOLD MOVE!!!

An Indy run would be the talk of the blogosphere, enormous news (even if the MSM ignored it), and would shake the political establishment to its foundations. The cannons and fanfare of a Ron Paul '08 Indy run would make Perot '92 look like a Saturday afternoon paintball match in the park.

Even conservatives are livid with the GOP right now for propping up an uninspiring centrist with a shady history and an embarrassing voting record. Even neocons don't like war as much as they like saving countless trillions of dollars in wasteful government spending. Having to choose between a very frugal, fiscally responsible peacenik and a hawkish spendthrift, we have the neocons between a rock and a hard place (or...Iraq and a hard place!)

I heard last week that Rush Limbaugh's planning on voting for Hillary over McCain, which made me bust a gut laughing, because it proves that the so-called "conservatives" who are so quick to take up that mantle are usually anything but conservative. Still, they would HAVE to get behind a Paul/Barr or Paul/Goldwater ticket, or face being completely discredited and exposed for the shills they are.

[colecrowe]

bump

[colecrowe]

on the indy or third party question...my thoughts:

independent would be the only way to win. Libertarian caps it at 5- maybe 10%., guaranteed (open borders, legalize all drugs, abolish social security, pro NAFTA--why?--90% of people could never vote for that, let alone they already don't like the name "libertarian"--it's like libertine, hedonist, or some crap--yeah, I know Reagan said "a true conservative is a libertarian"--but that's not near enough. Constitution Party believes in Constitutional amendment to outlaw abortion nationwide--like a 13th Amendment for abortion--besides the fact that you won't get any dems with that, RP disagrees vehemently. Americans are ready to declare their independence--from the parties, the lobbying and special interests, the pro-amnesty Republican and the Dems who refused to end the war. And besides--if Ron Paul is anything, he is independent--he's always voted against his party. He disagrees with a ton of the Republican agenda, and the Libertarian agenda. He officially resigned from the Republican Party at one point.

[colecrowe]

bump

[erin moore]

go to here to see your dad's contribution:

http://www.fec.gov/finance/disclosure/norindsea.shtml:

OR here http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapApp.do
is better actually, scroll down, and you can get info about other candidates, etc
that other site is crap.

MOORE, PAUL A MR.
ELIZABETHTOWN, KY 42701
US ARMY ACTIVE DUTY/TANKER

PAUL, RON
VIA RON PAUL 2008 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE
12/16/2007 2300.00 28930462769


BuddyRey
DFF
RonPaulFanInGA
Alex Libman
Andrew76
speciallyblend
mketcher
Airborn
rockandrollsouls
RollOn2day
Aidyl
Lovecraftian4Paul
Russellk30
FluffyUnbound
IDefendThePlatform
morerocklesstalk
TNFreedom
Madison
Seadeus
ndega360
Peace&Freedom
LibertyRevolution
Drknows
ronpaulyourmom
lonestarguy
colecrowe
erin moore =27

[colecrowe]

go to here to see your dad's contribution:

http://www.fec.gov/finance/disclosure/norindsea.shtml:

OR here http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapApp.do
is better actually, scroll down, and you can get info about other candidates, etc
that other site is crap.

MOORE, PAUL A MR.
ELIZABETHTOWN, KY 42701
US ARMY ACTIVE DUTY/TANKER

PAUL, RON
VIA RON PAUL 2008 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE
12/16/2007 2300.00 28930462769

AWESOME!

erin moore
PennCustom4RP
BuddyRey
DFF
RonPaulFanInGA
Alex Libman
Andrew76
speciallyblend
mketcher
Airborn
rockandrollsouls
RollOn2day
Aidyl
Lovecraftian4Paul
Russellk30
FluffyUnbound
IDefendThePlatform
morerocklesstalk
TNFreedom
Madison
Seadeus
ndega360
Peace&Freedom
LibertyRevolution
Drknows
ronpaulyourmom
lonestarguy
colecrowe

=28

[colecrowe]

bump

[colecrowe]

bump