Help, RE: What does the Income Tax pay for

[MGS]

Ive read or heard it somewhere before that the Income tax (Federal) doesn't pay for services like electricity, water, highways, education, etc. What does the income tax money go to? I cant remember and im talking with some people now about how if we cut spending we wouldn't need income tax.

[Kregener]

Basically, it is used to pay the interest on the Federal debt.

That, of course, is not the "official" story you would get from any government employee...

[WannaBfree]

it all goes to pay interest on the debt, according to the documentary America: Freedom To Fascism (that RP appears in).
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

[aravoth]

the grace comission report tells all. Yes it goes to pay interest on federal debt. Thats all.

[MGS]

Thanks guys

[BLS]

Basically, it is used to pay the interest on the Federal debt.

That, of course, is not the "official" story you would get from any government employee...

What he said.

[noxagol]

Actually, I looked at a copy of the federal budget, the interest on debts owed is only about 450 billion while the individual income tax accounts for 1.2 trillion dollars.

[Matt Collins]

http://www.federalbudget.com/chart.gif

[DeadheadForPaul]

What does health and human services cover?

[CodeMonkey]

What does health and human services cover?

My guess is all the entitlement programs (medicare, housing, etc)

[Politeia]

Ive read or heard it somewhere before that the Income tax (Federal) doesn't pay for services like electricity, water, highways, education, etc. What does the income tax money go to? I cant remember and im talking with some people now about how if we cut spending we wouldn't need income tax.

A liberal friend recently got on my case for being a cheat and a freeloader because I don't pay income taxes. In her conditioned mind, that meant that I don't pay any taxes at all, thus I'm not paying my "fair share". I told her there are many taxes, and most of them I do pay; she brought up the usual "roads" and "schools" and I pointed out that those are paid for by gasoline taxes and property taxes. "What does the income tax pay for, then?" she asked. I replied, "The war in Iraq."

Slightly simplified, but that's it: as Dr. Paul (among others) points out, the feddle gummint had plenty of money to pay for its legitimate Constitutional activities -- and even many that were beyond the Constitution -- before any income tax was levied. Clearly the income tax, which really became a major revenue source only during WWII (the so-called "Victory Tax" which was supposed to be temporary only for the duration of the war), is the primary support for the Empire.

But it's also true that none of the income tax actually goes to the government. The gummint borrows all the "money" it spends from the Federal Reserve, and the income tax goes directly to the Federal Reserve against the interest the government owes on what it borrows.* It's a complicated system -- deliberately so, to keep us peons from understanding it. The income tax also serves as partial cover for the inflation the Fed is continually pumping into the system.

The Fed was actually sold to Congress (and thereby to the American people) as a "cure" for depressions, of which there were several in the decades before the Fed was established -- supposedly to "manage" the economy to prevent such problems. Of course, the earlier depressions were themselves caused by the banks, in part because some became rich thereby, in part to scare the people into accepting economic "management" by the "experts". Sort of like the fox staging a couple of raids on the henhouse, then inducing the owner to hire him as the henhouse guard. And of course, within 20 years of establishing the Fed, the United States experienced the greatest depression of all. And went broke in 1933, when it couldn't pay back the Fed. That's why Roosevelt took all the gold away, to give it to the bankers.

So that's how the system works, roughly: the Fed is like a Doctor who feeds his patient amphetamines (constant injections of "credit") in the morning to get him up and going, then leeches blood out of him (the extractive income tax) in the evening so he can sleep at night, and won't realize how thoroughly he's being jacked up. It's a great system for the bankers and their friends, but it can't go on forever; eventually the patient (the U.S. economy, and by now the world economy, which is all tied into the credit/debt system via the World Bank etc.) will expire. That's us. But the people running it don't care, since they get rich on the way, and will survive the coming crash comfortably enough, while the world will be returned to a nice, stable feudal system, with the vast majority of people being serfs for the small number of super-rich, super-powerful elite. This whole idea of having a middle class and free commerce and so on is a big pain to them: too chaotic, too much chance things might get out of control. They prefer it simple.

Well, that's a start, anyway. If you study it, you can learn a lot. What I began learning, 25 years ago, was that everything I'd ever been taught and told -- and believed -- all my life about history, politics, economics, etc., was lies. Everything. It can be a shock at first, but the nice thing about the truth is that it has substance, a kind of nourishment to it. As you begin to clear away the fog and see what's really there, even though it can look pretty bad, at least you know it is what's there.

* Oh, and by the way, the way it's set up, the interest on the federal debt can never be paid off -- not to even mention the principal. The debt is perpetual. Pretty cool, huh? Them bankers are smart.

[Mesogen]

Excellent graph.

[BuckeyeDad]

Actually, I looked at a copy of the federal budget, the interest on debts owed is only about 450 billion while the individual income tax accounts for 1.2 trillion dollars.

That 450 billion in interest is likely for a single year of disclosed interest only, and likely does not include back interest or interest being accrued. Yes, the Grace Commission Report is where it's at.

[noxagol]

Yeah, I can attest to learning everything we learned in school is wrong. I recently read "The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History". I must say I was amazed. But yeah, basically the money from the individual income tax goes to retarded shit that we don't need nor want.

Oh and Hoover and Rosevelt are the reason the Great Depression was a Great Depression.

The best counter to a recession is for the government to tighten its purse strings.

[LizF]

"What does the income tax pay for, then?" she asked. I replied, "The war in Iraq."

Slightly simplified, but that's it: as Dr. Paul (among others) points out, the feddle gummint had plenty of money to pay for its legitimate Constitutional activities -- and even many that were beyond the Constitution -- before any income tax was levied. Clearly the income tax, which really became a major revenue source only during WWII (the so-called "Victory Tax" which was supposed to be temporary only for the duration of the war), is the primary support for the Empire.

I posted this in another thread today (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=12600), as I thought it was interesting how this sort of propaganda was being used during WWII to get people to save--not to be responsible (or better off) citizens, but rather to fund the war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ69X1qt4sQ&NR=1

[Politeia]

Yeah, I can attest to learning everything we learned in school is wrong. I recently read "The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History".

I had an uncle who was a prominent historian, name of Robert Kelley. He wrote textbooks used in high schools; I have one I picked up at a flea market sale (I saw the book, picked it up, said, "Hey, this is by my uncle!" and the seller gave it to me). The book is quite good, as high school textbooks go; but of course it is also a tapestry of lies. I wanted to ask him about it, but unfortunately he died rather suddenly of cancer, so I never got a chance. He was not a bad man; I'm sure he didn't deliberately lie, he just repeated what he'd been told, and was good at it, which made him a success, so he never had reason to question what "everyone knows".

The Politically Incorrect Guide is a good place to start; keep going.

[noxagol]

I had an uncle who was a prominent historian, name of Robert Kelley. He wrote textbooks used in high schools; I have one I picked up at a flea market sale (I saw the book, picked it up, said, "Hey, this is by my uncle!" and the seller gave it to me). The book is quite good, as high school textbooks go; but of course it is also a tapestry of lies. I wanted to ask him about it, but unfortunately he died rather suddenly of cancer, so I never got a chance. He was not a bad man; I'm sure he didn't deliberately lie, he just repeated what he'd been told, and was good at it, which made him a success, so he never had reason to question what "everyone knows".

The Politically Incorrect Guide is a good place to start; keep going.

Oh I am. And as for history being fucked up, I have an answer. The Carnegie Foundation. Watch this interview with Norman Dodd, who was director of research for the Reese Commission, by G. Edward Griffon. It is very chilling.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7373201783240489827&q=norman+dodd&total=118&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[Matt Collins]

Yeah, I can attest to learning everything we learned in school is wrong. I recently read "The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History". I must say I was amazed. I just got started on "the Politically Incorrect Guide to the Constitution"

One of the most important points in the beginning of the book is that the King granted independence to the original colonies and recognized each of them as sovereign states, not as a single unified country. I always knew that in the back of my mind, but it didn't register as a significant distinction until I just read it.

[Roxi]

1/3 of all income tax goes to pay for the IRS administration, paying them to run their business and pay their employees, and pay for their lunchroom etc. :) the rest goes to the national debt interest, or so ive heard