How big would it be if Paul got the nomination?

[Zera]

Will it be easy? Of course not. But in the few weeks that I have been reading the boards, I have gotten some hope, especially with all the delegates talk. It's still going to be a very hard thing, but there's always a chance.

If Congressman Paul gets the nomination, he will certainly be the the biggest, if thats the correct term, dark horse. Especially with all this MSM reporting, nearly everyone in this nation is under the assumption that McCain has secured the nomination. But if Paul gets the nomination, everyone will be shocked. Hell, I won't lie, many won't even know who he is. And what would the MSM do then? They've made it waaaaaaay more than obvious that they don't want to pay any attention to Paul. Would they continue to do the same if he got the nomination? Would they make accusations that he "stole the nomination" and other claims to make him sound evil?

Could all of this make it hard for Paul to win in November? Could he get so much negative reporting, and people just not knowing him, that he would just not win?

[Kotin]

should be interesting!

Welcome to the forums! and to The Revolution!!!

[Time for Change]

MSM airheads will be shocked when their efforts come to fruition...
censor Paul, hide the NAU efforts, Hide the currency agenda, etc,
then the network needs to begin broadcasting in spanish (the acquisition of Mexico) causing them to dump the current airheads on their asses because they don't speak spanish.

it's out there, but I feel better now...lol

[Akus]

Would they continue to do the same if he got the nomination? Would they make accusations that he "stole the nomination" and other claims to make him sound evil?

Yep. It will be some kind of an outrageous "they sabotaged the convention" type of a lie. And if you try to show that we did nothing but follow their rules to the T, they "won't have time for history lesson".

[nate895]

I wonder if they will do "rolling roll call" like they did in 2004 (each delegate inputs his vote on a vote machine like the House) or with the more traditional way ex: "South Carolina" who responds with "30 votes for XYZ, 5 for ABC"

[IPSecure]

Even after President Paul is sworn in, the MSM will ignore it...

[nate895]

Even after President Paul is sworn in, the MSM will ignore it...

But I will be oh so satisfied.

[AJ Antimony]

I'm really eager to see how many Paul supporters actually BECOME national delegates. From the stories I've heard on here, I'm under the impression that the only people trying to become national delegates ARE Paul supporters.

There are two things I like about this. 1. According to Devvy Kid, if it is proven at all that vote fraud existed in a state, then all of its delegates become unbounded. If most of the national delegates are Paul supporters AND are unbounded, guess who they will vote for?

2. If there are enough Paul supporters (would have to be 25%-50% of the total delegates IMO) and McCain easily wins the nomination due to bounded voting, then those delegates could form a Rump convention and name their own Republican nominee.

[kigol]

one can hope

[nate895]

I'm really eager to see how many Paul supporters actually BECOME national delegates. From the stories I've heard on here, I'm under the impression that the only people trying to become national delegates ARE Paul supporters.

There are two things I like about this. 1. According to Devvy Kid, if it is proven at all that vote fraud existed in a state, then all of its delegates become unbounded. If most of the national delegates are Paul supporters AND are unbounded, guess who they will vote for?

2. If there are enough Paul supporters (would have to be 25%-50% of the total delegates IMO) and McCain easily wins the nomination due to bounded voting, then those delegates could form a Rump convention and name their own Republican nominee.

Another way to release McCain delegates: Get enough state conventions to pass resolutions saying that they won't accept McCain as the nominee, and will nominate someone else if that were the case. State Parties have that right.

[molly_pitcher]

Let's hope the MSN is shown to be the hacks they are by their treatment of this election.

That was my plan all along.

[acptulsa]

Another way to release McCain delegates: Get enough state conventions to pass resolutions saying that they won't accept McCain as the nominee, and will nominate someone else if that were the case. State Parties have that right.

A third way to release bound delegates: Take Panama John to court over his eligibility and force him to drop out!

[DAFTEK]

Am i living under a rock or is this the new Billionaire hope stuff, how can you people believe he can still win the Nomination at this point? Even thou i will write him in i still cant see how he now has a chance with all the blackout and the Obama factor?

[acptulsa]

Welcome to the forum, Zera. I hope you don't follow in the footsteps of these senior members and lose faith after months of hard work. McCain is cheating on finance laws left and right and isn't a natural born American, making swearing him in as president an unConstitutional act. There will be a reckoning. This convention will be wild--far beyond any other in the past century.

Stick with us, friend. You've got an inside line on history in the making!

[pinkmandy]

Welcome to the forum, Zera. I hope you don't follow in the footsteps of these senior members and lose faith after months of hard work. McCain is cheating on finance laws left and right and isn't a natural born American, making swearing him in as president an unConstitutional act. There will be a reckoning. This convention will be wild--far beyond any other in the past century.

Stick with us, friend. You've got an inside line on history in the making!

QFT.

Anything can happen.

[abe447]

Am i living under a rock or is this the new Billionaire hope stuff, how can you people believe he can still win the Nomination at this point? Even thou i will write him in i still cant see how he now has a chance with all the blackout and the Obama factor?

You're right. There's NO chance Ron Paul will win the nomination. Ain't gonna happen so don't get your hopes up. Paul has basically said so himself and he's focusing on his Congressional seat. The only reason Ron Paul is still in the race is because he wants to speak at the Republican convention. There's nothing wrong with that. I hope he gets to speak and get his message out, but he ain't gonna be there as the Republican nominee.

[acptulsa]

And the best part of it is that we will be able to teach the trolls that the old adage is true: Never say never!

[LEK]

What will it be like to massively campaign when Ron Paul is the Republican nominee??? There is already so much that has been done [videos, newspaper, info. on the campaign site,etc.] that we can draw from and use. ALL of us will have a NATIONAL PRESENCE not just a STATE PRESENCE.

wow...

[crazyfingers]

You're right. There's NO chance Ron Paul will win the nomination. Ain't gonna happen so don't get your hopes up. Paul has basically said so himself and he's focusing on his Congressional seat. The only reason Ron Paul is still in the race is because he wants to speak at the Republican convention. There's nothing wrong with that. I hope he gets to speak and get his message out, but he ain't gonna be there as the Republican nominee.

Obviously he's not going to win, but do people really think the GOP is going to let him speak at the convention? I just don't see it happening, especially after his repeated claims that he would not support the nominee. Why would they give him the soap box - and all the benefits that come with it - unless they absolutely had to?

It would probably be a smart move politically, but the GOP has never shown any previous ability to put pragmatism over pride, and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

[mconder]

Even after President Paul is sworn in, the MSM will ignore it...

No...the entire establishment will start work on impeachment.

[Join The Paul Side]

nm

[Banana]

For those saying Paul can't win the nomination, you're forgetting that Paul still can win if there were 1191+ delegates at the convention. Nomination is the only thing delegates are bound, but they're free to do anything WRT party's platform, rules, and the likes. This then could be an opportunity to reform the party to pave the way for future RPRs, and even make it politically infeasible for the nominee to ignore Paul's message and end up supporting it.

[salsero96]

Can someone help me with this question...


If McCain does end up with the 1191 delegates for the nomination, do the delegates still have to go through the voting process? or is the nomination automatically given to him?

Also, what would happen if a delegate who is obligated to vote for McCain votes his conscience anyway?

[abe447]

Obviously he's not going to win, but do people really think the GOP is going to let him speak at the convention? I just don't see it happening, especially after his repeated claims that he would not support the nominee. Why would they give him the soap box - and all the benefits that come with it - unless they absolutely had to?

It would probably be a smart move politically, but the GOP has never shown any previous ability to put pragmatism over pride, and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

Isn't that what usually happens? A losing candidate hands over their delegates in exchange for a speaking role at the convention. Of course it's the smart move politically. They need all the votes they can get so it would be smart to try and try and bring the libertarian wing of the Republican Party together with the rest of the party. It probably won't happen even if they let Paul speak though. A lot of Paul supporters probably won't vote for McCain either way. But it can do them no harm giving Paul the chance to speak as long as he doesn't criticize McCain.

[acptulsa]

Can someone help me with this question...


If McCain does end up with the 1191 delegates for the nomination, do the delegates still have to go through the voting process? or is the nomination automatically given to him?

Also, what would happen if a delegate who is obligated to vote for McCain votes his conscience anyway?

The voting process happens. The various states have laws that specifiy what happens to delegates who buck the system. If Panama John is indeed proven ineligible, however, I'm sure those delegates will in no way be punished for bowing to the Constitution...

[amonasro]

You're right. There's NO chance Ron Paul will win the nomination. Ain't gonna happen so don't get your hopes up.

Oh, good ol' Honest Abe, here to remind everyone that Ron has no chance. A quick search of your posts shows where your true allegiance lies.

Don't forget about all the good stories coming out of states where we're taking over the local GOP and getting lots of delegates. We're not out of this yet. Anything can happen in politics.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=125730&page=4

[acptulsa]

Oh, good ol' Honest Abe, here to remind everyone that Ron has no chance. A quick search of your posts shows where your true allegiance lies.

Don't forget about all the good stories coming out of states where we're taking over the local GOP and getting lots of delegates. We're not out of this yet. Anything can happen in politics.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=125730&page=4

What's the matter, abe? Why is it taking you so long to find a way to spin this as a hopeless scenario we should immediately give up on?

[BillyDkid]

Is there some reasonable chance for this? I certainly hope so, but am I missing something? Would someone explain to me the particulars of how Dr. Paul can win the nomination at this point? I'm not being facile, but I am not clear on what this hope is based now. Believe me, I want Dr. Paul to be our President more than I want anything else right now, but like I said from the beginning getting the nod from the GOP was our biggest obstacle and it looks to me like they have beaten us. I hope I'm wrong, but that is what it looks like. By the way, I got my GOP fundraising letter in the mail. I wrote on the form that I would never support the GOP after how they treated Dr. Paul and his supporters and I would never support McCain. I wrote I would only ever support the GOP again if they adopt the policies of Dr. Paul.

[amonasro]

Is there some reasonable chance for this? I certainly hope so, but am I missing something? Would someone explain to me the particulars of how Dr. Paul can win the nomination at this point? I'm not being facile, but I am not clear on what this hope is based now. Believe me, I want Dr. Paul to be our President more than I want anything else right now, but like I said from the beginning getting the nod from the GOP was our biggest obstacle and it looks to me like they have beaten us. I hope I'm wrong, but that is what it looks like. By the way, I got my GOP fundraising letter in the mail. I wrote on the form that I would never support the GOP after how they treated Dr. Paul and his supporters and I would never support McCain. I wrote I would only ever support the GOP again if they adopt the policies of Dr. Paul.

No, we're trying to be as optimistic as possible. If we can get lots of delegates to the Convention good things can happen. We could influence the party, create excitement for the unbound delegates, make the McCain posse pee their pants... all sorts of fun things :) Maybe, just maybe a brokered convention could happen.

[abe447]

What's the matter, abe? Why is it taking you so long to find a way to spin this as a hopeless scenario we should immediately give up on?

LOL! Joe schmoe thinks we have enough delegates so it must be true! May I remind you that everybody here thought Ron Paul would win New Hampshire. They thought he'd win Nevada. What happened there? It's time to face the facts and realize that Ron Paul won't be President. He will remain in the Congress though and I hope we're focusing on getting more help for him in Congress. As I said before, Ron Paul is still in the race for one reason and one reason only, to speak at the national convention. I really hope he gets to speak, but it won't be as the nominee of the party.

How many states does John McCain have to win to convince you that it's over? He's going to sweep tonight and get that much closer to 1,191. Huckabee may drop out after tonight's massacre and endorse John McCain. It's over.

[BillyDkid]

No, we're trying to be as optimistic as possible. If we can get lots of delegates to the Convention good things can happen. We could influence the party, create excitement for the unbound delegates, make the McCain posse pee their pants... all sorts of fun things :) Maybe, just maybe a brokered convention could happen.Well, this is why I am confused. Didn't Dr. Paul himself say there was virtually no chance for a brokered convention? I honestly don't know what to believe anymore.

[salsero96]

I believe there is a chance. It might not be the biggest chance, but there is a chance.
McCain does not have all the delegates yet. Plus, there are still a lot of eligibility questions in the air about McCain.

[acptulsa]

I believe there is a chance. It might not be the biggest chance, but there is a chance.
McCain does not have all the delegates yet. Plus, there are still a lot of eligibility questions in the air about McCain.

Well, now, a voice of reason. Welcome to the forum.

[Banana]

Well, this is why I am confused. Didn't Dr. Paul himself say there was virtually no chance for a brokered convention? I honestly don't know what to believe anymore.

But he also did say that he'd keep fighting and picking up the delegates until the bitter end. Read the entire message.

And as I've pointed out before, Paul really doesn't need to have nomination to win- having 1191+ delegates who are RP supporters, even if they're bound to other candidates means we win in that we take control of party. Nomination is only thing that delegates don't have much of choice on the first ballot, but after that, they're free to do anything with party's platforms, rules, and whatnots.

So, even if McCain was the nominee, we would pass party's platform that's consistent with RP's message, reform the rules so future RPRs will arise easier and cut off cronyism corrupting the party, and maybe even make it politically infeasible for McCain to ignore RP's message.

[acptulsa]

In any case, there's nothing to be gained from taking the trolls' advice, giving up and rolling over.

[crazyfingers]

Isn't that what usually happens? A losing candidate hands over their delegates in exchange for a speaking role at the convention. Of course it's the smart move politically. They need all the votes they can get so it would be smart to try and try and bring the libertarian wing of the Republican Party together with the rest of the party. It probably won't happen even if they let Paul speak though. A lot of Paul supporters probably won't vote for McCain either way. But it can do them no harm giving Paul the chance to speak as long as he doesn't criticize McCain.

Well I hope you're right, but I just don't see it happening. Giving Paul the chance to speak would do the GOP a lot of harm, as no doubt he would expose the party as the "conservative" frauds they are. Maybe if he were to compromise and go-ahead with a highly-edited script, but that's just not Dr. Paul's style. I guess only time will tell, but I'd be shocked if it were to actually happen

[georgiaboy]

There is plenty of time. Nearly 6 months. Imagine the scenarios that can evolve during that much time in a single election cycle.
There are unbound/unpledged delegates.
Delegates to the national convention are still being selected in most states.
The RP grassroots is committed and focused on seeing this through to the end.

Unrest, even disgust, continues in the party.
The economy continues to unravel.
The media continues to grind down the nominees in both parties.

Meanwhile, we are head down, getting it done.

Imagine a Ron Paul nomination.
The media will not be able to ignore this. It will be front page headlines worldwide for days, weeks.
The country will finally be able to get a fair hearing of this man's amazing message.
The public will finally be able to focus on an election who's season was severely damaged by the 'me first' primary scheduling fiasco.
Support for Ron Paul will grow exponentially. Republicans will be energized.
He will win debates against the Democrat nominee.
The world will embrace his vision for America.

See it.
Be it.
Get to work.

georgiaboy

[acptulsa]

Beats the hell out of giving up and hoping they throw us a bone and allow us to be heard.

[puppetmaster]

LOL! Joe schmoe thinks we have enough delegates so it must be true! May I remind you that everybody here thought Ron Paul would win New Hampshire. They thought he'd win Nevada. What happened there? It's time to face the facts and realize that Ron Paul won't be President. He will remain in the Congress though and I hope we're focusing on getting more help for him in Congress. As I said before, Ron Paul is still in the race for one reason and one reason only, to speak at the national convention. I really hope he gets to speak, but it won't be as the nominee of the party.

How many states does John McCain have to win to convince you that it's over? He's going to sweep tonight and get that much closer to 1,191. Huckabee may drop out after tonight's massacre and endorse John McCain. It's over.


Funny, I am from Nevada and we did win where it counts.....
sorry to disappoint you abe;)

[acptulsa]

Funny, I am from Nevada and we did win where it counts.....
sorry to disappoint you abe;)

I'm not sorry to disappoint abe. I can't imagine anything that would disappoint abe more than to swear Dr. Paul in as president. I'm more than happy to disappoint abe every chance I get.

[kyleAF]

I wonder if they will do "rolling roll call" like they did in 2004 (each delegate inputs his vote on a vote machine like the House) or with the more traditional way ex: "South Carolina" who responds with "30 votes for XYZ, 5 for ABC"

The 2008 convention defaults to your "traditional way" where a summary is given for each state. However: if only one delegate from a given state objects to the given tally, then the state must cast its votes individually. They may have an electronic system in place, but a request to vote on paper ballots can be put forth.

Each state must have a delegate give an objection (i.e. an objection from Georgia does not change how Texas votes). The recorded vote from each individual delegate is what is binding in the case of a full roll call from each delegate.

Vote for whomever you like at that point, and the vote must be counted as it is (not as it was promised or "pledged").

Just google the "GOP national convention rules" and see for yourself.

[GoldStan]

When the convention passes without a peep and McWar is the nominee (as will be guaranteed tonight) the folks here arguing the 'trojan delegate) business will simply hop of the next conspiracy train and claim that we will have some other secret plan to win the general election without the Republican nomination.

[abe447]

When the convention passes without a peep and McWar is the nominee (as will be guaranteed tonight) the folks here arguing the 'trojan delegate) business will simply hop of the next conspiracy train and claim that we will have some other secret plan to win the general election without the Republican nomination.

Yep. The first conspiracy theory was that the scientific polls weren't accurate and they were underestimating Ron Paul's support. That turned out to be false. But anyone who didn't believe it was a troll. Now there are supposedly trojan delegates out there and anybody who doesn't believe it is a troll. I wonder what the next one will be.

[kyleAF]

You're right. There's NO chance Ron Paul will win the nomination. Ain't gonna happen so don't get your hopes up. Paul has basically said so himself and he's focusing on his Congressional seat. The only reason Ron Paul is still in the race is because he wants to speak at the Republican convention. There's nothing wrong with that. I hope he gets to speak and get his message out, but he ain't gonna be there as the Republican nominee.

Do you even know the 2008 GOP Convention rules??? It appears you don't.

Understand: there is no legally binding directive to the delegates saying that they must vote for whom they are pledged to.

Period.

if McCain gets the super-majority of "pledged" delegates, which I expect he will, he still doesn't get the nomination until the September ballot is cast at the convention.

If the delegates decide to change their mind, they may vote for whomever they choose on the first ballot, despite being pledged to McCain. The worst that can happen to them is a few sanctions from their local or state GOP.

Boo Hoo! How many of us are willing to tolerate a little stigma within our local GOP??? Oh, wait... we already are, because we support Ron Paul. :rolleyes:

Next: the rules of the floor are nearly the same as the rules of the House of Representatives (Ron Paul's stomping ground for 10 terms), so we'll have a network in place to get things done.

Did you know that the 2012 convention's rules are determined in advance at the 2008 convention??? Wouldn't it be nice to have a say in them? Well, we will, and we'll have the guidance of a veteran of the House processes.

So basically: take your nay-saying to another forum. We're not done yet, here. All we have to do is send a disproportionate number of delegates to the National Convention, and we can win it on the first ballot. Capiche?

[Sentient Void]

When the convention passes without a peep and McWar is the nominee (as will be guaranteed tonight) the folks here arguing the 'trojan delegate) business will simply hop of the next conspiracy train and claim that we will have some other secret plan to win the general election without the Republican nomination.

Will somebody bury this guy? Why are you floating around and frequently posting on these Ron Paul SUPPORT forums if you are just going to look for any way possible to discourage people against general support?

Also, this grassroots movement is not just about election, whether it is for "inside" delegates or not, it's about awareness and trying to find ways to get the word out.

Stop being a counter-productive negative nancy, or get out.

[salsero96]

Well, now, a voice of reason. Welcome to the forum.

Thanks! Good to be here.... =)

[kyleAF]

And that's no conspiracy theory. It's a fact of the rules.

Will we pull it off??? Well, that's what is left to be determined... not the possibility of it.

[abe447]

Question to all of you who think Ron Paul will win via a brokered convention:

John McCain has won the popular vote of Americans voting for the Republican Party nominee. He has won the most states. He has won the most delegates. Do you seriously believe that it's in the Republican Party's best interest to circumvent all of that and elect Ron Paul as their nominee?

Do you honestly believe that the GOP will allow Ron Paul, who everyone writes off as fringe, to magically win enough delegates to win the nomination? McCain obviously gives them the best chance to win even though the Republicans will likely lose in November no matter who their nominee is. He plays to the center, unlike Huckabee and unlike Paul. It's just politics. Overturning America's popular, state, and elected delegate vote would be a political disaster.

[kyleAF]

When the convention passes without a peep and McWar is the nominee (as will be guaranteed tonight) the folks here arguing the 'trojan delegate) business will simply hop of the next conspiracy train and claim that we will have some other secret plan to win the general election without the Republican nomination.

Nothing is guaranteed tonight.

Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

Understand yet? McCain will probably walk away tonight with more than 1191 delegates (or at least close enough to call it a "win"). I agree completely.

It doesn't matter though, because no one has ever been nominated prior to the National Convention's ballot process.

He's not the nominee until September, which may very well put a damper on his spending plans, since he's been stuck by his own finance reform rules.

He can't spend above the cap until the General Election, which only begins after he's the official party nominee.

The Democrats are free to eviscerate him between August and September, though, since they haven't asked for matching funds.

[acptulsa]

Thanks! Good to be here.... =)

Good to have you! As you can see, we tolerate trolls quite a bit more than other candidate's forums. This is partly because we value free speech, and partly because we find them somewhat helpful. They sharpen our wits and help us determine where the next path of resistance will be.

abe, believe it or not, can actually be quite helpful. For example, when he strenuously and energetically denounced the idea that McCain might be ineligible, some of us dug deeper and found out that he was born outside of the Canal Zone, and there's an excellent chance that he'll be disqualified. In short, when the trolls start barking their loudest, we know we're onto something.

Don't let them get you down. We're bound and determined to do whatever can be done, and to try to do more. The nation and the Constitution on which it is built (which was ratified 229 years ago today, by the way) are just too great to give up without a fight. Very glad to have you with us.

[acptulsa]

Question to all of you who think Ron Paul will win via a brokered convention:

John McCain has won the popular vote of Americans voting for the Republican Party nominee. He has won the most states. He has won the most delegates. Do you seriously believe that it's in the Republican Party's best interest to circumvent all of that and elect Ron Paul as their nominee?

Do you honestly believe that the GOP will allow Ron Paul, who everyone rights off as fringe, to magically win enough delegates to win the nomination? McCain obviously gives them the best chance to win even though the Republicans will likely lose in November no matter who their nominee is. He plays to the center, unlike Huckabee and unlike Paul. It's just politics. Overturning America's popular, state, and elected delegate vote would be a political disaster.

I can't think of a better way to end the MSM blackout. Can you?

[kyleAF]

Question to all of you who think Ron Paul will win via a brokered convention:

John McCain has won the popular vote of Americans voting for the Republican Party nominee. He has won the most states. He has won the most delegates. Do you seriously believe that it's in the Republican Party's best interest to circumvent all of that and elect Ron Paul as their nominee?

Do you honestly believe that the GOP will allow Ron Paul, who everyone rights off as fringe, to magically win enough delegates to win the nomination? McCain obviously gives them the best chance to win even though the Republicans will likely lose in November no matter who their nominee is. He plays to the center, unlike Huckabee and unlike Paul. It's just politics. Overturning America's popular, state, and elected delegate vote would be a political disaster.

You're right (except McCain does not give them a better chance to win...WAR!). They don't have a choice, though. The rules allow for it, since the GOP is just a private organization.

If all else fails, a suspension of the rules in toto can be called for given a majority of delegates from just 5 states. It's then a free for all, with U.S. HoR floor rules. Should be fun.

EDIT: the brokered convention is a straw man. There's no need of any brokerage at all. I don't expect that a brokered convention will happen. It doesn't need to happen, since the delegates are not actually legally bound on the first ballot.

[kyleAF]

Originally Posted by abe
Question to all of you who think Ron Paul will win via a brokered convention:

John McCain has won the popular vote of Americans voting for the Republican Party nominee. He has won the most states. He has won the most delegates. Do you seriously believe that it's in the Republican Party's best interest to circumvent all of that and elect Ron Paul as their nominee?

Do you honestly believe that the GOP will allow Ron Paul, who everyone rights off as fringe, to magically win enough delegates to win the nomination? McCain obviously gives them the best chance to win even though the Republicans will likely lose in November no matter who their nominee is. He plays to the center, unlike Huckabee and unlike Paul. It's just politics. Overturning America's popular, state, and elected delegate vote would be a political disaster.

As I said earlier on another thread:

Expect to see a large movement to get rid of the delegate and electoral college processes after this election cycle. These processes have screwed with the powers that be too much for their comfort... especially if there is an upset at one of the conventions.

The general populace has been deluded into believing that we have a Democracy and that this is a good thing. In fact, a Democracy is a horrible thing, and we have a Republic. The two are not even remotely related.

We will have the portion of our political structure that is a Republic pulled out from under us in the name of "Bringing real Democracy to America", or some such BS slogan.

Just wait and see.

[salsero96]

Question to all of you who think Ron Paul will win via a brokered convention:

John McCain has won the popular vote of Americans voting for the Republican Party nominee. He has won the most states. He has won the most delegates. Do you seriously believe that it's in the Republican Party's best interest to circumvent all of that and elect Ron Paul as their nominee?

Do you honestly believe that the GOP will allow Ron Paul, who everyone writes off as fringe, to magically win enough delegates to win the nomination? McCain obviously gives them the best chance to win even though the Republicans will likely lose in November no matter who their nominee is. He plays to the center, unlike Huckabee and unlike Paul. It's just politics. Overturning America's popular, state, and elected delegate vote would be a political disaster.

The process is what it is. We didn't make it that way. There is "circumventing" going on here. If Ron Paul were to win the candidacy, it would be 100% legal, playing 100% by the rules.



Do you seriously believe that it's in the Republican Party's best interest to circumvent all of that and elect Ron Paul as their nominee?

Lets look at the bigger picture here....

Personally, I am not at all concerned about what is the best interest for the GOP. I am, however concerned about the best interests of our country. The GOP dug it's own hole. This year, there is a record number of voters registering as Republican. Do you think that this is because of Bush? Of course not! It's because they are mostly Ron Paul supporters. So Ron Paul IS good for the GOP. He is good for the country. He is good for the world.

[acptulsa]

Personally, I am not at all concerned about what is the best interest for the GOP. I am, however concerned about the best interests of our country. The GOP dug it's own hole. This year, there is a record number of voters registering as Republican. Do you think that this is because of Bush? Of course not! It's because they are mostly Ron Paul supporters. So Ron Paul IS good for the GOP. He is good for the country. He is good for the world.

Hear hear! If a party is a vehicle for something other than the citizenry, then it has been perverted, and needs to be fixed.

[georgiaboy]

The process is what it is. We didn't make it that way. There is "circumventing" going on here. If Ron Paul were to win the candidacy, it would be 100% legal, playing 100% by the rules.

The process has been created this way just for such a cycle as this one. The delegates at the convention, since they are able to vote their conscience at some point, are able to right wrongs and act on new information provided them since the primaries to make the most informed choice of the nominee. Kinda makes sense. If there's strong disagreement within the party on direction/nominee selection, or if foul play is sensed, then the delegate selection process post primaries allows for those so inclined to work to get to the next level to represent the their interests within the party.

I am actually surprised (both pleasantly and not so much) at just how much my primary vote really doesn't matter to the overall selection of the nominee.

georgiaboy

[salsero96]

The process is what it is. We didn't make it that way. There is no "circumventing" going on here. If Ron Paul were to win the candidacy, it would be 100% legal, playing 100% by the rules.



Lets look at the bigger picture here....

Personally, I am not at all concerned about what is the best interest for the GOP. I am, however concerned about the best interests of our country. The GOP dug it's own hole. This year, there is a record number of voters registering as Republican. Do you think that this is because of Bush? Of course not! It's because they are mostly Ron Paul supporters. So Ron Paul IS good for the GOP. He is good for the country. He is good for the world.



-----EDIT... I meant to say there is "no" circumventing going on here"-----

[Zera]

So, hold on...

The delegates... Even if it says they are pledged, they can still vote for whoever they wish? Seriously?

[GoldStan]

So, hold on...

The delegates... Even if it says they are pledged, they can still vote for whoever they wish? Seriously?

If by "seriously" you mean "in utter fantasyland" then yes, by all means.

The convention will go by without a peep from the vaunted trojan delegates and the fabulists on this thread will either blame some shadow group conspiracy or simply pretend that they never even promulgated their brand of magical thought in the first place.

You can see this phenomenon at work at pretty much any conpiracy site on the web.

[nate895]

If by "seriously" you mean "in utter fantasyland" then yes, by all means.

The convention will go by without a peep from the vaunted trojan delegates and the fabulists on this thread will either blame some shadow group conspiracy or simply pretend that they never even promulgated their brand of magical thought in the first place.

You can see this phenomenon at work at pretty much any conpiracy site on the web.

Um, you can change the rules, unless if you are too retarded to understand "these rules can be amended by a majority vote a state convention, or by a 3/4 vote of the state committee..." means that you can change any and all rules if you can get 50%+1 in the state convention (this example is from Georgia, and may be different for your state). We are well on our way to achieving that goal in Oklahoma, Colorado, and many other states.

[GoldStan]

Um, you can change the rules, unless if you are too retarded to understand "these rules can be amended by a majority vote a state convention, or by a 3/4 vote of the state committee..." means that you can change any and all rules if you can get 50%+1 in the state convention (this example is from Georgia, and may be different for your state). We are well on our way to achieving that goal in Oklahoma, Colorado, and many other states.

My friend, if you think that somehow we will be getting 50%+1 in these states after MCWar already locked them down you are incapable of grasping reality.

[Banana]

My friend, if you think that somehow we will be getting 50%+1 in these states after MCWar already locked them down you are incapable of grasping reality.

In some states, there's no control over who will be the delegates besides getting selected as a delegate at a state convention. So it's possible that delegates for McCain are actually Ron Paul supporters, if they packed the state convention.

Nomination is the only thing they don't have much of say, but they're free to do anything else WRT party's platforms. They could then pack the committees with RPRs, thus making the party more friendly toward other liberty candidates. They also can reform the party by making it more grassroot-oriented than crony-oriented, and pass resolutions opposing Iraq War, abolishing IRS & Federal Reserve. McCain will have to choke on that. And if done right, we could make it politically infeasible for McCain to continue his path of destruction and make him do the bidding of Ron Paul.

Of course, that's most optimistic outcome (except for Ron Paul actually getting the nomination), but this *is* doable if we send everyone we can to the conventions.

[LittleLightShining]

You're right. There's NO chance Ron Paul will win the nomination. Ain't gonna happen so don't get your hopes up. Paul has basically said so himself and he's focusing on his Congressional seat. The only reason Ron Paul is still in the race is because he wants to speak at the Republican convention. There's nothing wrong with that. I hope he gets to speak and get his message out, but he ain't gonna be there as the Republican nominee.Now I completely understand the "ban abe" thread.

[nate895]

In some states, there's no control over who will be the delegates besides getting selected as a delegate at a state convention. So it's possible that delegates for McCain are actually Ron Paul supporters, if they packed the state convention.

Nomination is the only thing they don't have much of say, but they're free to do anything else WRT party's platforms. They could then pack the committees with RPRs, thus making the party more friendly toward other liberty candidates. They also can reform the party by making it more grassroot-oriented than crony-oriented, and pass resolutions opposing Iraq War, abolishing IRS & Federal Reserve. McCain will have to choke on that. And if done right, we could make it politically infeasible for McCain to continue his path of destruction and make him do the bidding of Ron Paul.

Of course, that's most optimistic outcome (except for Ron Paul actually getting the nomination), but this *is* doable if we send everyone we can to the conventions.

They do have a lot of say over the nomination, though it depends on the state that you are from, most states are either morally bound (like Texas) or bound by party rules (almost everyone, I haven't found a single state statute).

[Ball]

1) You don't need to change the rules.

2) It is by NO means certain McCain will get the nomination. McCain is hated in the GOP. All he's won is the media popularity contest.

3) This isn't some pie-in-the-sky scenario. I'm not going to give specifics because I want McCain and his supporters to leap left to compete with Hillbama. We don't need his consent, we don't need the media's consent, and we certainly don't need the consent of nay-sayers on this forum! All we need are delegates!

[nc4rp]

Paul stated on his video 'the presidency is no longer available in the conventional political sense",

check the official message video 3-6-08

he might just want them to think we think that. either way see you in minnesota if i make it that far as a delegate.

[nate895]

Paul stated on his video 'the presidency is no longer available in the conventional political sense",

check the official message video 3-6-08

he might just want them to think we think that. either way see you in minnesota if i make it that far as a delegate.

It says victory, not Presidency.

[Mr. Coolidge]

As I said earlier on another thread:

Expect to see a large movement to get rid of the delegate and electoral college processes after this election cycle. These processes have screwed with the powers that be too much for their comfort... especially if there is an upset at one of the conventions.

The general populace has been deluded into believing that we have a Democracy and that this is a good thing. In fact, a Democracy is a horrible thing, and we have a Republic. The two are not even remotely related.

We will have the portion of our political structure that is a Republic pulled out from under us in the name of "Bringing real Democracy to America", or some such BS slogan.

Just wait and see.
So sad and so frighteningly true. It's a wonder that nothing changed after 2000, but hey, I won't say anything if they won't.

[nate895]

So sad and so frighteningly true. It's a wonder that nothing changed after 2000, but hey, I won't say anything if they won't.

I haven't seen you in a while, Mr. Coolidge, welcome back.

[Banana]

...I haven't found a single state statute.

Georgia?

[nate895]

Georgia?

I have found the statute for Georgia establishing a Presidential Primary, and it states that the parties may choose to select their delegates by the primary, but there is no statute to enforce it.

http://www.lexis-nexis.com/hottopics/gacode/default.asp

[soapmistress]

I reckon that 7 months from now, if McCain's own campign finance laws have a stranglehold on his ability to campaign against the Democrats, the GOP might welcome a little drama if it meant getting headlines. Desperate times call for desperate measures. They could dump McCain as quickly as they made their thinly-veiled endorsements!

[Banana]

I have found the statute for Georgia establishing a Presidential Primary, and it states that the parties may choose to select their delegates by the primary, but there is no statute to enforce it.

http://www.lexis-nexis.com/hottopics/gacode/default.asp

I see.


I would personally feel much better if we could get a lawyer to review the matters...
Not saying your interpretation may be wrong, but sometime things aren't what they seem to be. :\

Then there's issue of a private contract between the party and the delegates, which is definitely enforceable in a court of law....


Nonetheless, it's still all good- if we manage to get 1191+ delegates, we still win, with or without nomination, really. That's only thing that should matter.

[american.swan]

The MSM would instantly come out with a 'poll' showing Ron Paul certainly losing to 'any' DEM candidate.

The poll would fluctuate slightly each week for 'entertainment' reasons, but would always show Paul 'losing'.

WHY?

THe MSM would be telling the 'sheep' not to vote for the 'looser'.

[Matthew P.]

It would be huge (to answer the question of the post)!

Ron Paul winning would shake this nation from the top down. There would be mayhem from the MSM and the Fed would do everything in its power to ensure that he didn't make it past the inaugural speech! It's sad, really.

But - Ron Paul does have a chance - don't give up! :)

[Revolution9]

<snip blithering>

Abe.. STFU drooldonkey. You a pathetic sputtering drizzle of pure miasma. Ohlmert is calling you. He needs service. Be a good golem and conform to his despotic wishes.

HTH
Randy

[Revolution9]

I<snip circle jerkoff with crazyfingers.>

I hope your mutual masturbatory fascist fantasy provided you both with a modicum of pleasure. From this vantage point it just looks obscene.

HTH
Randy

[Russellk30]

Question to all of you who think Ron Paul will win via a brokered convention:

John McCain has won the popular vote of Americans voting for the Republican Party nominee. He has won the most states. He has won the most delegates. Do you seriously believe that it's in the Republican Party's best interest to circumvent all of that and elect Ron Paul as their nominee?

Do you honestly believe that the GOP will allow Ron Paul, who everyone writes off as fringe, to magically win enough delegates to win the nomination? McCain obviously gives them the best chance to win even though the Republicans will likely lose in November no matter who their nominee is. He plays to the center, unlike Huckabee and unlike Paul. It's just politics. Overturning America's popular, state, and elected delegate vote would be a political disaster.

Though I don’t agree that Mccain gives the republicans their best chance at the Whitehouse, just about everything else you said is spot on.

It is easier to believe a convenient lie than the hard truth. Republicans are not going to magically warm up to Ron Paul, this is nonsense. He may have a speaking role, nothing more.

We sit here and claim that the GOP is corrupt, that they have done everything in their power (no matter how lacking in honor) to smear Paul, and they (the vast majority) are going to drop their aspirations and let Ron Paul have the nomination? They are going to follow the rules and our ninja delegates are going to take them by surprise. We are going to hijack the primary process and not get any backlash from the other 95% of voters? Am I talking to a rock?

Even if every other Republican nominee, going back to old Gilmore, were killed in a mass kitten attack, Ron Paul would not get the nomination. The GOP constituency dispise Ron Paul more than Satan despises bunny rabbits.

Talk about fucking denial. This thread is absurd.

[abe447]

Thank you Russell. The reason I say McCain gives the Republicans the best shot at retaining the White House is because the rest of the field was incredibly weak. McCain has the image of being a maverick and appeals to democrats. He needs to do the best that he can to rally the conservative base against the liberal Obama. I don't think McCain is going to win though, but he gives them a chance. Anyway, thank you for being realistic. I have tried to tell these people for weeks now, but they just don't listen to reason. Thank you for trying.

[nate895]

Can the trolls stop being party poopers? Thank you, I reject your reality and substitute my own.

[Russellk30]

Thank you Russell. The reason I say McCain gives the Republicans the best shot at retaining the White House is because the rest of the field was incredibly weak. McCain has the image of being a maverick and appeals to democrats. He needs to do the best that he can to rally the conservative base against the liberal Obama. I don't think McCain is going to win though, but he gives them a chance. Anyway, thank you for being realistic. I have tried to tell these people for weeks now, but they just don't listen to reason. Thank you for trying.

Dont worry too much about the positivety police, most of the people on this forum are willing to accept the idea of a freedom movement outside of the republican party. Its too bad though that 25% still think the GOP is more important than the message of freedom.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1337853&posted=1#post1337853

[Revolution9]

Dont worry too much about the positivety police, most of the people on this forum are willing to accept the idea of a freedom movement outside of the republican party. Its too bad though that 25% still think the GOP is more important than the message of freedom.
p=1337853&posted=1#post1337853[/url]

You would think he circle jerk was obscene enough and you pop in to splooge your mess as well.

HTH
Randy

[Banana]

Dont worry too much about the positivety police, most of the people on this forum are willing to accept the idea of a freedom movement outside of the republican party. Its too bad though that 25% still think the GOP is more important than the message of freedom.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1337853&posted=1#post1337853

Maybe because it was Ron Paul's objective? He didn't ask us to pick up delegates for him, no?

[Russellk30]

You would think he circle jerk was obscene enough and you pop in to splooge your mess as well.

HTH
Randy

ahhhhh:( Poor Randy. Nothing substantial to say so you revert to name calling. Anybody that says anything contrary to your little sphere of correct opinion gets a big dose of highly dexterous verbal insults. It’s too bad that your little cheerleaders mistake you lengthy insult sessions using a large vocabulary as substantive argument.

"If I don’t understand him, he must be right...right?"

Those are the same people that are in denial about the republican nomination.

Go irrationality!

HTH!
Me

[Russellk30]

Maybe because it was Ron Paul's objective? He didn't ask us to pick up delegates for him, no?

So he could get a speaking role at the convention and spread the message of liberty. He would do the same if it were the democratic party.

So you admit that the GOP is more important than the message of liberty?

[Banana]

So he could get a speaking role at the convention and spread the message of liberty. He would do the same if it were the democratic party.

Well there's that, but I think it's more than that. I already made a thread earlier arguing that Paul doesn't have to win the nomination for us, for his message to win- if we packed the convention with 1191 delegates who are RPRs, we then rule the party and pack the committees with like minded people and thus clean up the party and make it friendlier toward other liberty candidates. This would further the message much faster than if we just donated to various liberty candidates in face of GOP party hacks opposed to everything but the status quo.

[Revolution9]

ahhhhh:( Poor Randy. Nothing substantial to say so you revert to name calling. Anybody that says anything contrary to your little sphere of correct opinion gets a big dose of highly dexterous verbal insults. It’s too bad that your little cheerleaders mistake you lengthy insult sessions using a large vocabulary as substantive argument.

"If I don’t understand him, he must be right...right?"

Those are the same people that are in denial about the republican nomination.

Go irrationality!

HTH!
Me

The many times defeated and whining drooldonkey bleats yet again.. Give it up shortstop. I have already made you easily the brunt of laughter.. You didn't gain a single IQ point more bit of wit since then.. What makes you think uyou can make a dent in my reality. I don't bow down and buckle on one knee before MSM lies or think my saviour is some third party that will take 30-50 years to gets its foot on the accelerator. Live in your dream if it tickles your winkle.. I ain't there.. I got another agenda that coincides with reality. It cancels your right the fuck out of the picture..

HTH
Randy

[pcosmar]

ahhhhh:( Poor Randy. Nothing substantial to say so you revert to name calling. Anybody that says anything contrary to your little sphere of correct opinion gets a big dose of highly dexterous verbal insults. It’s too bad that your little cheerleaders mistake you lengthy insult sessions using a large vocabulary as substantive argument.

"If I don’t understand him, he must be right...right?"

Those are the same people that are in denial about the republican nomination.

Go irrationality!

HTH!
Me

Whats with all these lame jokers that come in late for the game and become know it alls.
Folks just show up and start pissing on folks that have been in this from the beginning.
It is becoming tiresome. :(

[Russellk30]

Well there's that, but I think it's more than that. I already made a thread earlier arguing that Paul doesn't have to win the nomination for us, for his message to win- if we packed the convention with 1191 delegates who are RPRs, we then rule the party and pack the committees with like minded people and thus clean up the party and make it friendlier toward other liberty candidates. This would further the message much faster than if we just donated to various liberty candidates in face of GOP party hacks opposed to everything but the status quo.

I don’t think Paul would have said that the campaign in its traditional sense is over if he thought there were a chance to win. He expects a speaking role and nothing more. When are we going to get 1191 delegates together? Next election cycle?

The GOP constituency has heard the message, and rejected it. They may yet realize the wisdom Paul speaks, but count on it being later rather than sooner.

I’m all for continuing to build up delegates. By all means! I voted in both the primary and caucus here in Washington as a republican. I have nothing against the idea, but unlike many around here, I do not think it is blasphemy to talk about an independent or third party run.

[pcosmar]

Thank you Russell. The reason I say McCain gives the Republicans the best shot at retaining the White House is because the rest of the field was incredibly weak. McCain has the image of being a maverick and appeals to democrats. He needs to do the best that he can to rally the conservative base against the liberal Obama. I don't think McCain is going to win though, but he gives them a chance. Anyway, thank you for being realistic. I have tried to tell these people for weeks now, but they just don't listen to reason. Thank you for trying.

What the Fuck difference does the GOP keeping the White house have to do with returning this Country to its Constitutional roots.
McCain is in NO WAY better than Clinton/Obama. There is NO difference.
It is obvious that you have no concept of this Freedom movement or the Message.

[Russellk30]

The many times defeated and whining drooldonkey bleats yet again.. Give it up shortstop. I have already made you easily the brunt of laughter.. You didn't gain a single IQ point more bit of wit since then.. What makes you think uyou can make a dent in my reality. I don't bow down and buckle on one knee before MSM lies or think my saviour is some third party that will take 30-50 years to gets its foot on the accelerator. Live in your dream if it tickles your winkle.. I ain't there.. I got another agenda that coincides with reality. It cancels your right the fuck out of the picture..

HTH
Randy

Haha, Alright man. You beat me up with words. Everybody is laughing at me on the ground after being pummeled with Randy's vocabulary.

So instead of relying on a third party, you will put your faith in a party that hasnt reduced the size of government in decades even though there were times when both executive and legislative were in full control? Thats a good place for the freedom movement. :rolleyes:

I dont expect to dent you reality. You are too stubborn. But the time will come when Ron Paul is "robbed" of the republican nomination and you wont have anything except conspiracy theories to justify your reality.

Have a good day.

[pcosmar]

When are we going to get 1191 delegates together?

At the convention in St Paul. Possibly more.
It ain't over.

[Russellk30]

Whats with all these lame jokers that come in late for the game and become know it alls.
Folks just show up and start pissing on folks that have been in this from the beginning.
It is becoming tiresome. :(

Ahhhhhh! The old "they don’t have a whole bunch of posts on ronpaulforums so they must have just heard about Ron Paul and have no right to contradict us senior posters" argument. Are you ten?

[pcosmar]

Ahhhhhh! The old "they don’t have a whole bunch of posts on ronpaulforums so they must have just heard about Ron Paul and have no right to contradict us senior posters" argument. Are you ten?

No I'm 50.
I am also not some johnny come lately spreading negativity.
Why are you here?


An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion

[Russellk30]

At the convention in St Paul. Possibly more.
It ain't over.

Source?

[Russellk30]

No I'm 50.
I am also not some johnny come lately spreading negativity.
Why are you here?

Congratulation for being 50. That makes your simplistic republican positivity much more admirable.

I am here because liberty has no feet. Your assumptions are a little more than false. Quit guessing, you're not very good at it.

[pcosmar]

Congratulation for being 50. That makes your simplistic republican positivity much more admirable.

I am here because liberty has no feet. Your assumptions are a little more than false. Quit guessing, you're not very good at it.

You are flaunting your ignorance again.
I have never said I am a Republican, in fact I have stated that I am not many times.

Now, Who is Guessing.
Idiot.

[Russellk30]

What the Fuck difference does the GOP keeping the White house have to do with returning this Country to its Constitutional roots.
McCain is in NO WAY better than Clinton/Obama. There is NO difference.
It is obvious that you have no concept of this Freedom movement or the Message.

Are you intentionally misinterpreting what he was trying to say? Please go look up the definition of "context."

[Russellk30]

You are flaunting your ignorance again.
I have never said I am a Republican, in fact I have stated that I am not many times.

Now, Who is Guessing.
Idiot.

I didnt said you were a republican. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[abe447]

Russell, these people don't listen to logic. They'll just all be let down when the convention comes around and John McCain is nominated rather easily. We'll bump this thread up and say, we told you so, and they'll just go on to the next conspiracy theory. And I would watch out if I were you russell, if you keep talking realistic like this you're bound to have a whole thread devoted to trying to get you banned...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=127031

Maybe things are starting to change around here though. 73% of the population voted to keep me and the no vote is winning the poll in a landslide. Keep it up guys.

[Russellk30]

At the convention in St Paul. Possibly more.
It ain't over.

Source?

[Russellk30]

Russell, these people don't listen to logic. They'll just all be let down when the convention comes around and John McCain is nominated rather easily. We'll bump this thread up and say, we told you so, and they'll just go on to the next conspiracy theory. And I would watch out if I were you russell, if you keep talking realistic like this you're bound to have a whole thread devoted to trying to get you banned...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=127031

Maybe things are starting to change around here though. 73% of the population voted to keep me and the no vote is winning the poll in a landslide. Keep it up guys.

I do have to admit I am a bit confused. I guess I assumed all Ron Paul supporters would be reasonable and logical. Silly assumption in hindsight.

That poll is pretty awesome! Glad you made it!

[puppetmaster]

I do have to admit I am a bit confused. I guess I assumed all Ron Paul supporters would be reasonable and logical. Silly assumption in hindsight.

That poll is pretty awesome! Glad you made it!

We keep you around to keep us focused guys!!

;)

[nate895]

What I want to know is why abe never responds when I actually defeat him in threads. Like when he said that he doubted that young women were opposed to abortion (the majority, at least) and I then pulled up an article that he never responded to.

[Russellk30]

What I want to know is why abe never responds when I actually defeat him in threads. Like when he said that he doubted that young women were opposed to abortion (the majority, at least) and I then pulled up an article that he never responded to.

Haha! How were the questions in the article worded? Maybe like "Do you enjoy killing innocent babies?"

[nate895]

Haha! How were the questions in the article worded? Maybe like "Do you enjoy killing innocent babies?"

No, like "As a whole, would you describe yourself as pro-life or pro-choice?"

[amonasro]

What I want to know is why abe never responds when I actually defeat him in threads. Like when he said that he doubted that young women were opposed to abortion (the majority, at least) and I then pulled up an article that he never responded to.

Because he is a troll and should be on your ignore list. Nothing can hurt a troll more than that.

[nate895]

Because he is a troll and should be on your ignore list. Nothing can hurt a troll more than that.

He is, I'm just so interested in rebuking his arguments that I must click "view post."

[amonasro]

He is, I'm just so interested in rebuking his arguments that I must click "view post."

He has no idea what he is getting himself into. Once the full power of the forums is unleashed upon him he'll run for the hills.

[Russellk30]

Because he is a troll and should be on your ignore list. Nothing can hurt a troll more than that.

Trolls! Trolls! They're....under...my...skin....




get them out :(

[abe447]

What I want to know is why abe never responds when I actually defeat him in threads. Like when he said that he doubted that young women were opposed to abortion (the majority, at least) and I then pulled up an article that he never responded to.

Nate, you stated that a majority of young women were opposed to abortion. None of the polls in your article surveyed just young women. Also, the article says a pew research poll revealed that 22% of those aged 18-29 want to ban abortion. That must mean that 78% want it to remain legal. I don't think that qualifies as a majority being opposed to abortion. The gallup poll said that 72% viewed abortion as morally wrong, but only 32% said they wanted it to be illegal. Again, we can infer that the majority of teens surveyed(not young women) think abortion should be legal. Here's the article for others who are interested. Who gets abortions in large numbers? Young women. It's just logic! Your statement was wrong.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/health/bal-te.infocus15feb15,0,5497080.story

[Russellk30]

Nate, you stated that a majority of young women were opposed to abortion. None of the polls in your article surveyed just young women. Also, the article says a pew research poll revealed that 22% of those aged 18-29 want to ban abortion. That must mean that 78% want it to remain legal. I don't think that qualifies as a majority being opposed to abortion. The gallup poll said that 72% viewed abortion as morally wrong, but only 32% said they wanted it to be illegal. Again, we can infer that the majority of teens surveyed(not young women) think abortion should be legal. Here's the article for others who are interested. Who gets abortions in large numbers? Young women. It's just logic! Your statement was wrong.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/health/bal-te.infocus15feb15,0,5497080.story

Damn! I hate it when they use facts. Or as Beavis says, "I hate facts, facts are like...hard."

[Russellk30]

He has no idea what he is getting himself into. Once the full power of the forums is unleashed upon him he'll run for the hills.

Dude, its an online forum not a village mob. Get over yourself. Maybe you and Randy can get together and beat people up with words. That'll show em.

[abe447]

Where did nate go? I defeated him and he just runs for the hills. I guess unleashing my full power was just too much for him. He had no idea what he was getting himself into.

[nate895]

He has no idea what he is getting himself into. Once the full power of the forums is unleashed upon him he'll run for the hills.

Like Ron Paul Fan.

[nate895]

Nate, you stated that a majority of young women were opposed to abortion. None of the polls in your article surveyed just young women. Also, the article says a pew research poll revealed that 22% of those aged 18-29 want to ban abortion. That must mean that 78% want it to remain legal. I don't think that qualifies as a majority being opposed to abortion. The gallup poll said that 72% viewed abortion as morally wrong, but only 32% said they wanted it to be illegal. Again, we can infer that the majority of teens surveyed(not young women) think abortion should be legal. Here's the article for others who are interested. Who gets abortions in large numbers? Young women. It's just logic! Your statement was wrong.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/health/bal-te.infocus15feb15,0,5497080.story

No, it said total ban, it is higher for others I am certain since the national pro-life rate is 40%, and about 15% want a total ban.

Pew and Gallup consistently have the lowest pro-life ratings.

[nate895]

Oh, and what about my 2012 thread response.

[Banana]

Nate & Abe, could you please take it to PM?

[abe447]

No, it said total ban, it is higher for others I am certain since the national pro-life rate is 40%, and about 15% want a total ban.

Pew and Gallup consistently have the lowest pro-life ratings.

Nate, you were quoted above as saying that the majority of young women were opposed to abortion. None of those polls survey just young women and none of them involve the majority of the young age groups supporting a total ban. You were wrong again, my friend.

[nate895]

Oh, and I don't think that leaving to watch 48 Hours is the same as not responding.

[nate895]

Nate, you were quoted above as saying that the majority of young women were opposed to abortion. None of those polls survey just young women and none of them involve the young age groups supporting a total ban. You were wrong again, my friend.

I have seen the Fox News Opinion Dynamics poll before, and I am 100% certain it said that, it was all over the radio and FNC when they released it. They also had several follow up polls on it that confirmed from other organizations.

[abe447]

I have seen the Fox News Opinion Dynamics poll before, and I am 100% certain it said that, it was all over the radio and FNC when they released it. They also had several follow up polls on it that confirmed from other organizations.

Oh, so now Fox News is a legitimate news source. Funny how that works. When they don't tell you what you want to hear, they're biased hacks. But when they do, you have no problem using them as your main source. My friend, you're making claims and you have no proof. Your previous article was debunked and now you're just creating sources out of thin air! I have defeated nate the great!

[Russellk30]

I have seen the Fox News Opinion Dynamics poll before, and I am 100% certain it said that, it was all over the radio and FNC when they released it. They also had several follow up polls on it that confirmed from other organizations.

Good source.

[Russellk30]

Oh, so now Fox News is a legitimate news source. Funny how that works. When they don't tell you what you want to hear, they're biased hacks. But when they do, you have no problem using them as your main source. My friend, you're making claims and you have no proof. Your previous article was debunked and now you're just creating sources out of thin air! I have defeated nate the great!

Thank you for not being condescending Mr. Mccain.:D

[Russellk30]

Alright alright alright! This source should end any further discussion on the topic. I guarantee it cannot be refuted.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ddqhu/2312182608/sizes/l

[nate895]

I know what I say is the truth. I go to public school in Washington State, one of the most liberal in the country, and every girl who I know their stance on abortion is pro-life, with one exception. That isn't any poll, that is why I believed it, it reinforced my prior knowledge. Now I am going to find the poll somehow, some way, and report back tomorrow since it is getting late.

[nate895]

http://www.jknirp.com/mark2.htm

Or it could have been that easy.

[Russellk30]

http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/Glamour%20graph.jpg

http://www.cnn.com/US/9801/20/abortion.poll/abortion.poll1.gif

http://www.publicagenda.com/issues/images/abortion/rfabortiondoctor.jpg

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/images/abortion_opinion_2005.gif

http://personhood.net/images/poll1.jpg

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2003/02/28_scheckt_abortionpoll/images/question1_large.jpg

So many choices. What one is right? Help me Frank!

[nate895]

http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/Glamour%20graph.jpg

http://www.cnn.com/US/9801/20/abortion.poll/abortion.poll1.gif

http://www.publicagenda.com/issues/images/abortion/rfabortiondoctor.jpg

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/images/abortion_opinion_2005.gif

http://personhood.net/images/poll1.jpg

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2003/02/28_scheckt_abortionpoll/images/question1_large.jpg

So many choices. What one is right? Help me Frank!

The only one of those that could have taken place in the near term (2006-now) is the CNN poll, and that one was the most favorable to pro-life given only 23% said "always legal" and I would put myself under the middle "legal in some cases" i.e., the life of the mother, so who knows those peoples exact opinions. One of those polls was from 2000, and all but the CNN and the 2000 one were crappy given the way they give information.

[abe447]

http://www.jknirp.com/mark2.htm

Or it could have been that easy.

You still have yet to produce a poll that says what you claimed. You claimed the majority of young women were opposed to abortion. There are two polls listed in this article that even mention young people. One poll had it 60-39 for a pro life position, but that 60 included people who said to keep it legal in cases of rape, incest, and where the mother's life is in danger. And another UCLA poll showed that 54% of college students support abortion, a majority.

[nate895]

You still have yet to produce a poll that says what you claimed. You claimed the majority of young women were opposed to abortion. There are two polls listed in this article that even mention young people. One poll had it 60-39 for a pro life position, but that 60 included people who said to keep it legal in cases of rape, incest, and where the mother's life is in danger. And another UCLA poll showed that 54% of college students support abortion, a majority.

I consider that pro-life (except in cases of mother's life in danger, etc.), and college students is a hell of a lot different than young people.

[abe447]

I consider that pro-life (except in cases of mother's life in danger, etc.), and college students is a hell of a lot different than young people.

But the polls was just people aged 18-29. Not young women 18-29. Wrong again, my friend.

[nate895]

But the polls was just people aged 18-29. Not young women 18-29. Wrong again, my friend.

I have a feeling you haven't met a young person in quite some time.

[pcosmar]

A Ron Paul win at the convention would be great. It seem that we are still picking up delegates.
McCain is truly hated by most conservative voters.
The MSM is completely missing the story, as usual.

[abe447]

I have a feeling you haven't met a young person in quite some time.

Ha! I am actually in the age group that you're describing. Just because you and a few of your 9th grade friends are pro life doesn't mean the entire population is. And I'm still waiting for that poll verifying your claim that the majority of young women are opposed to abortion.

[pcosmar]

How big would it be if Paul got the nomination?
Huge
More good news here,
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=127401

[nate895]

Ha! I am actually in the age group that you're describing. Just because you and a few of your 9th grade friends are pro life doesn't mean the entire population is. And I'm still waiting for that poll verifying your claim that the majority of young women are opposed to abortion.

Young people 60-40 in opposition would make it mathematically impossible for women of that age range to be in favor unless there were 70% of males in opposition, and impossible figure to meet given the other demographics, heck, Evangelicals aren't that in opposition to abortion.

[abe447]

Young people 60-40 in opposition would make it mathematically impossible for women of that age range to be in favor unless there were 70% of males in opposition, and impossible figure to meet given the other demographics, heck, Evangelicals aren't that in opposition to abortion.

Baseless claim, unless you know what the ratio of men to women polled is.

[nate895]

Baseless claim, unless you know what the ratio of men to women polled is.

It can't be a good polled unless if it is at least 52/48 in favor of one or the other, otherwise the margin of error increases exponentially. Given the margin of error of 2.8%, it is, at most, 51/49 in favor of men or women.

[Revolution9]

Ab e. Yer arguments always lead to blind and dead end alleys.. Read this mofo..

Ron Paul Delegates Update - Gaining Momentum!
http://www.nolanchart.com/article3110.html

by Jahfre Fire Eater
(Libertarian)

We attended the Jefferson County GOP assembly this morning. At our tiny county assembly last week there were about 60 people. At today's there were about 1000. Our two counties share a District Attorney so we showed up to support his nomination at the assembly. There were 21 delegates from our county, 820 from Jefferson County. The DA had all 21 of us go up on stage during his nomination speech.

This was done in the first hour. The rest of the time didn't involve our county so we were free to leave...but we didn't. It had been advertised that there would be no presidential election speakers during the assembly but after the DA nomination a woman got up and spoke for John McCain. After that, our precinct captain told the Jefferson County Chair that Ron Paul was still running for president and since John McCain had a speaker they should also have a Ron Paul speaker.

No problem.

We waited around for another hour until our Paul guy spoke. He is a 21 yr old conservative who speaks like he was born behind a podium. He said his generation faces an enormous debt and a sinking economy while we fund both sides of every conflict in the world and try to spread 'democracy' at the end of a gun. He said that they are 29% of today's population but they are 100% of the future for this country and they are being handed a raw deal that they are not going to accept.

In a 2 minute, ad hoc speech, this kid got 4 huge applause and a partial standing ovation when he stepped down. It was fantastic. Afterwards, there was a line of people at the Ron Paul table. Everyone at this convention is a delegate. Those people in line are looking to sign up as Colorado Ron Paul delegates. They are former Huckabee people and Romney people and Fred people and Tancredo people. The Giuliani people all went for McCain, I'm sure. They have so little in common with the rest.

The major topic of debate at the GOP breakfasts this week was how to hold your nose and vote for McCain. I'd say about 50% say absolutely no way in hell will they vote for McCain.

I have no illusions about Ron's chances of winning the nomination. My goal to take enough delegates to the GOP convention to have a voice in the proceedings. There are still 5 months before any delegates are counted. The media can proclaim McCain the victor and he can make all the acceptance speeches he wants but he is not the nominee until the delegates are counted. Every time he opens his mouth another delegate switches to Ron Paul. I think John McCain is fully capable of blowing the nomination. I think constant visibility of the Ron Paul revolution could greatly help McCain to unravel...not that he really needs help in that like Rudy did. I think the man is not psychologically or mentally fit for office and I expect him to prove it all on his own.

When the choice is so black and white; a man of principle and conviction versus a man without a shred of principle and conviction only to inflating his own ego, people for whom those things matter are standing up for Dr. Paul. Of course it is too little, too late for this election but that's ok. These things should happen slowly and deliberately. It has been so long since Republicans have had a candidate who stood for conservative principles that it will take time for them to remember why those principles are so valuable to our nature as individual human beings and essential to our prosperity and peace. One way or another we will re-learn these things, we always do...until we forget them again, round and round we go.

I have read articles here at Nolan Chart and elsewhere on the internet about Ron Paul dropping his bid for the nomination. The level of wishful thinking on that topic is more telling than the words people write about it. If you write it with enough passion, wit or sarcasm it will happen, it will, it will. NOT! Why are some folks so afraid or Dr. Paul's message that they make up fantasies about his going away then post those fantasies on a public forum. I think that is both sad and freaking hilarious at the same time. We are here to stay, Paul or no Paul, we are taking the GOP back from the liberals.

The struggle to defend individual liberty against those who would willingly sacrifice their liberty, and yours is eternal. Those of us who are doing the work today must also pave the way for those who follow to be ever more effective. We need to encourage grass roots efforts because the diversity of action yields the best overall test of the ideas. The best survive and thrive, the worst remain marginal. (There is always somebody who will believe in ANYTHING.)

The aspect that was absent from the Ron Paul grass roots movement was the experience or tools people could use to quickly weed out ineffective behavior and encourage effective behavior. Far too much time and energy was wasted on people who had no ability to become effective Republicans or to be taken seriously by voting Republicans. I heard today that two of these folks we know have already re-registered with their favorite 3rd party; one Constitutional, one Libertarian. I'll never understand the conscious decision to make oneself as politically ineffective as possible but a very tiny portion of the population does so proudly and even self-righteously. As long as they're having fun I guess it doesn't hurt anyone.

To counter the urge for folks to return to a third party or apathy, we are launching an organization for grass roots activists to share effective activities. We will leverage volunteer talents to build out other tools for promoting conservative values within the GOP and for enforcing "trickle-up-integrity" in local communities. The website will launch in the coming week after having worked on it for way too long. It is ready for prime time. Always a work in progress, this is a tool that grass roots volunteers will continue to improve on. We're kicking the idea out into the marketplace of ideas with every confidence that it will be given a life by those who participate. Participation is the only requirement. This isn't a tool you buy and put on a shelf. You only have it if you use it. Do or don't do, at The Alphaville Decoder organization those are the only choices.

We go live within the week at www.AlphavilleDecoder.org

[pcosmar]

Irrelevant/.

Just derailing another one.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070502/070502_train_vmed_2p.widec.jpg

[Russellk30]

These are the two paragraphs that sort of derail the whole "secret ninja delegates" argument. A speaking role at the convention is the current goal, nothing more.

This fire-eater fellow also wants grassroots to take back the Republican Party. Good for him! But don’t get bent out of shape when many of us want nothing to do with the Republican Party. It’s too bad he uses the old "Third parties will always be irrelevant" argument. That’s a little too simplistic and absolute for my taste. Who ever said the republican and democratic parties are eternal?

I think the proper debate should be the effectiveness of the freedom movement from within the Republican Party. The most successful incursion was that of the relatively huge Goldwater movement, which accomplished nothing except bigger government.


"I have no illusions about Ron's chances of winning the nomination. My goal to take enough delegates to the GOP convention to have a voice in the proceedings. There are still 5 months before any delegates are counted. The media can proclaim McCain the victor and he can make all the acceptance speeches he wants but he is not the nominee until the delegates are counted. Every time he opens his mouth another delegate switches to Ron Paul. I think John McCain is fully capable of blowing the nomination. I think constant visibility of the Ron Paul revolution could greatly help McCain to unravel...not that he really needs help in that like Rudy did. I think the man is not psychologically or mentally fit for office and I expect him to prove it all on his own.

When the choice is so black and white; a man of principle and conviction versus a man without a shred of principle and conviction only to inflating his own ego, people for whom those things matter are standing up for Dr. Paul. Of course it is too little, too late for this election but that's ok. These things should happen slowly and deliberately. It has been so long since Republicans have had a candidate who stood for conservative principles that it will take time for them to remember why those principles are so valuable to our nature as individual human beings and essential to our prosperity and peace. One way or another we will re-learn these things, we always do...until we forget them again, round and round we go."

[Banana]

Russell,

Actually, delegates thingy is our to lose, not RP's. He doesn't elect delegates except for in select few states (and he didn't win those). It's entirely up to us to turn out to all conventions and get ourselves elected as delegates.

When we are actually at the national convention, we can then strategize how we can address this. Maybe we won't end up nominating Paul, but at least we can draw up the party's platform to follow RP's message, pass a No-Confidence resolution against McCain (for his shoddy behavior with FEC for example), and pack all committees with our people to further the message.

This would be huge in that we'd reform the party and thus make it easier to elect much more liberty candidates while driving out corrupt politicians much faster than if we stayed on the outside.

At this point, the only thing that should matter is delegates.

[colecrowe]

A Ron Paul win at the convention would be great. It seem that we are still picking up delegates.
McCain is truly hated by most conservative voters.
The MSM is completely missing the story, as usual.

Completely not true. Extreme BS (not saying you are BSing us--just that everyone seems to have that perception and they are very mistaken. The amount of people in the exit polls from Ohio and Texas who said they would be Satisfied or Very Satisfied with McCain was overwhelming. It was well over 70%. Only like 9% said they would be Very Dissatisfied.

sources:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/index.html#OHREP
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/index.html#TXREP

[Russellk30]

Russell,

Actually, delegates thingy is our to lose, not RP's. He doesn't elect delegates except for in select few states (and he didn't win those). It's entirely up to us to turn out to all conventions and get ourselves elected as delegates.

When we are actually at the national convention, we can then strategize how we can address this. Maybe we won't end up nominating Paul, but at least we can draw up the party's platform to follow RP's message, pass a No-Confidence resolution against McCain (for his shoddy behavior with FEC for example), and pack all committees with our people to further the message.

This would be huge in that we'd reform the party and thus make it easier to elect much more liberty candidates while driving out corrupt politicians much faster than if we stayed on the outside.

At this point, the only thing that should matter is delegates.

I was talking about the chance of nomination. Nothing else.

As far as heavily influencing the convention, do you have a source showing where our hundreds and into the low thousands of delegates are going to come from?

[nate895]

Completely not true. Extreme BS (not saying you are BSing us--just that everyone seems to have that perception and they are very mistaken. The amount of people in the exit polls from Ohio and Texas who said they would be Satisfied or Very Satisfied with McCain was overwhelming. It was well over 70%. Only like 9% said they would be Very Dissatisfied.

sources:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/index.html#OHREP
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/index.html#TXREP

The reason why is that conservatives have no reason to get out and vote, the nomination is already "decided." Conservatives are still dissatisfied, see the gaining momentum thread. Plus, the anti-McCain people are the types that go to the caucuses and conventions.

[richardfortherepublic]

The fact is that the GOP cannot win the election without RP supporters, and they know that it would be easier to convince people to vote for him over McWar.

[Ball]

But don’t get bent out of shape when many of us want nothing to do with the Republican Party. [/B]

Too bad for them! If we have the majority, we are the party.

As for the two party system, who says we can't shame the lefties into doing the same to the DNC? Being against the USA PATRIOT Act or against illegal, unconstitutional wars isn't a partisan issue, it's an American one. Neo-cons have infested both parties, and it's high time we fumigated!

[pcosmar]

Completely not true. Extreme BS (not saying you are BSing us--just that everyone seems to have that perception and they are very mistaken. The amount of people in the exit polls from Ohio and Texas who said they would be Satisfied or Very Satisfied with McCain was overwhelming. It was well over 70%. Only like 9% said they would be Very Dissatisfied.

sources:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/index.html#OHREP
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/index.html#TXREP

OK, not that I believe polls, but everyone in my area I have spoken to are completely befuddled at McCain. Only a couple (warmongers) that have no concept of a Constitutional Limited Government are FOR him.
This is the same impression I have gotten from other forums also.
McCain is not well liked. At best he is NOT Hillery.

[Russellk30]

OK, not that I believe polls, but everyone in my area I have spoken to are completely befuddled at McCain. Only a couple (warmongers) that have no concept of a Constitutional Limited Government are FOR him.
This is the same impression I have gotten from other forums also.
McCain is not well liked. At best he is NOT Hillery.

I'm glad your poll shows most Republicans don not want Mccain as the nominee. What was your margin of error?

[devil21]

John McCain has won the popular vote of Americans voting for the Republican Party nominee. He has won the most states. He has won the most delegates. Do you seriously believe that it's in the Republican Party's best interest to circumvent all of that and elect Ron Paul as their nominee?


Hi again shill. McCain has a lot of "voters" but few "supporters". Paul has all the "supporters" but few "voters". Supporters care enough to become delegates and make a difference. Voters watch the news for an hour before election day then cast their vote and forget about it. Who do you think *actually* matters during the convention? Paul supporter that put in hours of their time to make it to the convention or a McCain voter that's eating Cheetos and watching CSI: Miami during the convention?

[nate895]

Hi again shill. McCain has a lot of "voters" but few "supporters". Paul has all the "supporters" but few "voters". Supporters care enough to become delegates and make a difference. Voters watch the news for an hour before election day then cast their vote and forget about it. Who do you think *actually* matters during the convention? Paul supporter that put in hours of their time to make it to the convention or a McCain voter that's eating Cheetos and watching CSI: Miami during the convention?

I like Cheetos, and I hope to be eating them in the guest section while the roll call is happening at the convention, cheering while Paul continues to get more and more delegates.

[devil21]

I like Cheetos, and I hope to be eating them in the guest section while the roll call is happening at the convention, cheering while Paul continues to get more and more delegates.

LOL you can have them, I can't stand Cheetos. Gimme a bag of Chex Mix or Crunch n Munch anyday.

[jointhefightforfreedom]

Obviously he's not going to win, but do people really think the GOP is going to let him speak at the convention? I just don't see it happening, especially after his repeated claims that he would not support the nominee. Why would they give him the soap box - and all the benefits that come with it - unless they absolutely had to?

It would probably be a smart move politically, but the GOP has never shown any previous ability to put pragmatism over pride, and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

WE let me repeat that
WE ARE THE GOP!
If we put the pressure on anything is obtainable

[Russellk30]

Hi again shill. McCain has a lot of "voters" but few "supporters". Paul has all the "supporters" but few "voters". Supporters care enough to become delegates and make a difference. Voters watch the news for an hour before election day then cast their vote and forget about it. Who do you think *actually* matters during the convention? Paul supporter that put in hours of their time to make it to the convention or a McCain voter that's eating Cheetos and watching CSI: Miami during the convention?

You want to back up that statement with a little green? How about $100?

[devil21]

You want to back up that statement with a little green? How about $100?

I dont know, are you sure McCain has budgeted it for you? It would suck for you to lose and the FEC keeps you from paying up :D

[Russellk30]

I dont know, are you sure McCain has budgeted it for you? It would suck for you to lose and the FEC keeps you from paying up :D

That’s the way to do it. Disparage the character of those that don’t agree with you! You didn’t answer the question though. How about it if you're so confident? $100

You are in denial, but not strong enough denial to sacrifice a little green.

[BigRedBrent]

Am i living under a rock or is this the new Billionaire hope stuff, how can you people believe he can still win the Nomination at this point? Even thou i will write him in i still cant see how he now has a chance with all the blackout and the Obama factor?

Being defeatist is how we got this far. If we would just stop the dang defeatist bull shit we would win. It is that simple. We still have a chance, if it will take all of our effort to win, then if we lose we have only ourselves to blame.

[defe07]

If Ron gets the Rep nomination, WE'RE IN THE EYES OF SEEING THE BIGGEST COMEBACK IN AMERICAN HISTORY!!! This wouldn't be the Comeback Kid part 3, it would be Karate Kid part 1. Remember, if anybody tells you that Paul has no chance or not to vote for him, ask that person ths following question: "Which Presidential candidate has the largest single-day fund-raising in American political history?"

[Russellk30]

If Ron gets the Rep nomination, WE'RE IN THE EYES OF SEEING THE BIGGEST COMEBACK IN AMERICAN HISTORY!!! This wouldn't be the Comeback Kid part 3, it would be Karate Kid part 1. Remember, if anybody tells you that Paul has no chance or not to vote for him, ask that person ths following question: "Which Presidential candidate has the largest single-day fund-raising in American political history?"

Sorry to tell you, but the whole voting thing is just about over. We cannot vote again. Paul will not do any better in the remaining states than he has done in the early ones. Ok, maybe a little better. Like a few %.

[Russellk30]

Being defeatist is how we got this far. If we would just stop the dang defeatist bull shit we would win. It is that simple. We still have a chance, if it will take all of our effort to win, then if we lose we have only ourselves to blame.

Exactly how will we win if people stop being what you refer to as defeatists? How will a greater effort help us win the nomination? Please explain, I really would like an explanation.

[Banana]

Russell-

Delegates.

The forums is swamped with threads about delegates. Read it to see how Paul could win.

[BigRedBrent]

Russell-

Delegates.

The forums is swamped with threads about delegates. Read it to see how Paul could win.

QFT, and it IS a greater possibility then any of the McCain people want to admit. Ron Paul dominates in grass roots support and is the only one who could ever pull this off if it ever could be done by any of the candidates.

[Russellk30]

Russell-

Delegates.

The forums is swamped with threads about delegates. Read it to see how Paul could win.

I want sources! I have asked multiple people to provide sources to numbers. How are we going to come up with the required numbers? Not once have I got a reponse.

[Banana]

Most delegates haven't even been selected. It ultimately all depends on the turnouts to district conventions -> state conventions -> national conventions (keeping in mind variations on the state party rules). Just because a caucus or primary passed doesn't mean delegates are already lined up.

We won't know for sure until well into summer. But for now, you can read various reports of success in precinct and district conventions.

[devil21]

Ive HAD IT WITH TROLLS!

Hey Russell, what is your major malfunction? This is a forum about getting Ron Paul elected President and that goal has not changed so why the fuck are trying to inhibit progress of that goal? Dont get into some "reality" bullshit about what CNN says. Reality is what you make it by your actions, not what the MSM tells you it should be. The race isn't over so you and abe can go chew your McWar pillows until the convention.

BTW, I don't bet on my country's future. You show your true colors by offering a useless monetary wager of useless fiat currency on such an important period in our history. Shame on you.

[Russellk30]

Ive HAD IT WITH TROLLS!

Hey Russell, what is your major malfunction? This is a forum about getting Ron Paul elected President and that goal has not changed so why the fuck are trying to inhibit progress of that goal? Dont get into some "reality" bullshit about what CNN says. Reality is what you make it by your actions, not what the MSM tells you it should be. The race isn't over so you and abe can go chew your McWar pillows until the convention.

BTW, I don't bet on my country's future. You show your true colors by offering a useless monetary wager of useless fiat currency on such an important period in our history. Shame on you.

$200? That is far less than I have donated to Ron Paul so far. Oh yeah, I am a six-year military veteran. Honorably discharged. I think the war in Iraq is bullshit. I’ve stood armed watches in some of the most dangerous waters in the world. I have friends over in Iraq still. I don’t want one single US troop outside of our borders. It is a waste of money and I would rather not have friends of mine go crazy or die. I am still in the reserves, and who knows, maybe Ill get recalled and they'll send my ass back overseas. You think I support anybody but Ron Paul at this point? Fuck you, you presumptuous asshole.

[devil21]

$200? That is far less than I have donated to Ron Paul so far. Oh yeah, I am a six-year military veteran. Honorably discharged. I think the war in Iraq is bullshit. I’ve stood armed watches in some of the most dangerous waters in the world. I have friends over in Iraq still. I don’t want one single US troop outside of our borders. It is a waste of money and I would rather not have friends of mine go crazy or die. I am still in the reserves, and who knows, maybe Ill get recalled and they'll send my ass back overseas. You think I support anybody but Ron Paul at this point? Fuck you, you presumptuous asshole.

Funny that you would have donated so much to Paul, served in the military yet you dont support the candidate that has received the most money from active duty military. Reservers, friends still in Iraq (waiting to die), no troops outside the border, etc etc blah blah blah. Then why aren't you discussing ways to elect Ron Paul as President instead of trolling here and shitting on every positive thread like your "dont ask dont tell" buddy abe? Don't forget to wipe!

[Conza88]

Russell - 209 posts of negativism.

“Once our minds are 'tattooed' with negative thinking, our chances for long-term success diminish”
John Maxwell


“Thoughts are things; they have tremendous power. Thoughts of doubt and fear are pathways to failure. When you conquer negative attitudes of doubt and fear you conquer failure. Thoughts crystallize into habit and habit solidifies into circumstances.”
Bryan Adams

Russell is FTL.. mate, STFU or GET THE F--K OUT OF THE WAY...
Because, we're going ALL THE WAY..

See the rest of you at Inauguration! :D

[G-Wohl]

$200? That is far less than I have donated to Ron Paul so far. Oh yeah, I am a six-year military veteran. Honorably discharged. I think the war in Iraq is bullshit. I’ve stood armed watches in some of the most dangerous waters in the world. I have friends over in Iraq still. I don’t want one single US troop outside of our borders. It is a waste of money and I would rather not have friends of mine go crazy or die. I am still in the reserves, and who knows, maybe Ill get recalled and they'll send my ass back overseas. You think I support anybody but Ron Paul at this point? Fuck you, you presumptuous asshole.

Why do people always feel the need to bring up their military service, as if it's some sort of factor of credibility?

I couldn't give a shit if you volunteered in our military. Our military has been an evil organization since after WWII, and arguably before that. You served for an evil organization run by a psychotically-mad federal government. Good for you - you are no different in my eyes.

And money is ABSOLUTELY NOT related directly to amount of support. Shame on you. RP would never condone that kind of speech.

As for your other behavior regarding delegate counts, the proof is everywhere. It's been posted numerous times. I posted a thread about it. Read it! I acknowledge just like most everyone else that our chances of winning the nomination are very slim, but speaking in absolutes like you do doesn't help anybody, except for perhaps yourself for some sort of comfort reason. It's best to simply continue doing your part if you actually support the guy.

[Russellk30]

Funny that you would have donated so much to Paul, served in the military yet you dont support the candidate that has received the most money from active duty military. Reservers, friends still in Iraq (waiting to die), no troops outside the border, etc etc blah blah blah. Then why aren't you discussing ways to elect Ron Paul as President instead of trolling here and shitting on every positive thread like your "dont ask dont tell" buddy abe? Don't forget to wipe!

Is this good enough for you? Are you done questioning my loyalty and patriotism? You know all these donation from Navy personnel Ron Paul received? Well, It probably consisted of 1/60th of all of it, so again, fuck you buddy.

http://ronpaulosopher.blogspot.com/

[Russellk30]

Why do people always feel the need to bring up their military service, as if it's some sort of factor of credibility?

I couldn't give a shit if you volunteered in our military. Our military has been an evil organization since after WWII, and arguably before that. You served for an evil organization run by a psychotically-mad federal government. Good for you - you are no different in my eyes.

And money is ABSOLUTELY NOT related directly to amount of support. Shame on you. RP would never condone that kind of speech.

As for your other behavior regarding delegate counts, the proof is everywhere. It's been posted numerous times. I posted a thread about it. Read it! I acknowledge just like most everyone else that our chances of winning the nomination are very slim, but speaking in absolutes like you do doesn't help anybody, except for perhaps yourself for some sort of comfort reason. It's best to simply continue doing your part if you actually support the guy.

I am doing my part. I’m trying to get people to realize that the best route is an independent run. Many people on this forum also think so, so don’t through a fit because the beloved Republican Party isn’t supported.

So the amount of money isn’t related to the support I’ve given? How about the dozens of hours of sign making and waving? How about voting for Paul in the Primary? How about the dozens of hours going door to door? How about hundreds of hours spent in different mediums trying to convince anybody to vote for him? Why the fuck do you think I have only 209 posts since January? Because I’ve been out there doing the dirty work while working fulltime and going to school, so I didn’t have time to post on this forum. Ive supported Paul for over a year. So fuck you to.

You are right, military service isnt exactly the most admirable of professions at this point, but I didnt even know what a libertarian was until early last year. I didnt know much about the world and I admit it, but I still take my oath to defend the constitution seriously.

Because of Ron Paul, I cancled my cable, donate to various liberty minded organization, am active in local politics, know much more about the world we live in, am learning HTML, sacrifice most of my free time for this movement, and have made a commitment to myself to never support any political candidate that pushes for big government. I have to go to work in three hours and including school, I have a 15 hour day tomorrow, and you think im a fucking troll? So again, fuck you.

Jesus Christ. No wonder so many people were chased away from this forum. How much does somebody have to do to convince others that they are in fact Ron Paul supporters?

http://ronpaulosopher.blogspot.com/

BTW this is the first mention of the Ron Paul Money bomb on digg to ever go front page. http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/The_Ron_Paul_Money_Bombing_has_Begun That is not the work of a troll is it? Just so everybody knows, Eric Nordstrom was the guy that coined the term Money Bomb. Yes, it had nothing to do with November 5th.

[Conza88]

Russell, rofl @ you ignoring my post. hahaha

Can I just say something about your trolling efforts?

Thanks for bumping this kickass positive vibes thread. :D

- This is what we, actual, Ron Paul supporters call

"Blowback" --- get used to it. :D

[Russellk30]

Russell, rofl @ you ignoring my post. hahaha

Can I just say something about your trolling efforts?

Thanks for bumping this kickass positive vibes thread. :D

- This is what we, actual, Ron Paul supporters call

"Blowback" --- get used to it. :D

I was busy responding to other people. Those responses also apply to you so there is no need to repost. Just look up the page a little.

[nodope0695]

It would be....


















HUGE!!!

[G-Wohl]

I am doing my part. I’m trying to get people to realize that the best route is an independent run. Many people on this forum also think so, so don’t through a fit because the beloved Republican Party isn’t supported.

So the amount of money isn’t related to the support I’ve given? How about the dozens of hours of sign making and waving? How about voting for Paul in the Primary? How about the dozens of hours going door to door? How about hundreds of hours spent in different mediums trying to convince anybody to vote for him? Why the fuck do you think I have only 209 posts since January? Because I’ve been out there doing the dirty work while working fulltime and going to school, so I didn’t have time to post on this forum. Ive supported Paul for over a year. So fuck you to.

You are right, military service isnt exactly the most admirable of professions at this point, but I didnt even know what a libertarian was until early last year. I didnt know much about the world and I admit it, but I still take my oath to defend the constitution seriously.

Because of Ron Paul, I cancled my cable, donate to various liberty minded organization, am active in local politics, know much more about the world we live in, am learning HTML, sacrifice most of my free time for this movement, and have made a commitment to myself to never support any political candidate that pushes for big government. I have to go to work in three hours and including school, I have a 15 hour day tomorrow, and you think im a fucking troll? So again, fuck you.

Jesus Christ. No wonder so many people were chased away from this forum. How much does somebody have to do to convince others that they are in fact Ron Paul supporters?

http://ronpaulosopher.blogspot.com/

BTW this is the first mention of the Ron Paul Money bomb on digg to ever go front page. http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/The_Ron_Paul_Money_Bombing_has_Begun That is not the work of a troll is it? Just so everybody knows, Eric Nordstrom was the guy that coined the term Money Bomb. Yes, it had nothing to do with November 5th.

You make far too many assumptions here.

I don't support the GOP. I revoked my membership to it almost as quickly as I got it (registered Republican last December, changed back to Libertarian last week). I also did not assume you weren't a supporter. I just thought your hostile post was a bit too counterproductive. I also never said "fuck you" and think that your attitude and vulgar language here is unnecessary. kthx.

[GoldStan]

Indeed we prefer irrationality and wishful thinking over vulgar language here.