Countering the Common Socialist

[Fox McCloud]

Well, after thinking about it, and realizing that I've made several topics about common questions posed by socialists, I decided to create this topic--a central discussion for talking about dealing with questions/etc from your typical socialists.

Either way, what about these:

The Rich paying higher taxes is good, "
Besides, you can only get richer by imposing slightly higher taxes, so maybe a loss of $5000, but a gain of $10,000 each for educating the kids, and $20,000 for health


I admire Scandinavian countries. They have high taxes yes, but they don't pay for health care, education, or public transport.

[clouds]

that first one is ridiculous... you can only get richer by having higher taxes?

that second one leaves out anyone who doesn't like their education, don't use the public transport, and is healthy.

[kyleAF]

Most socialists are moral socialists... so it's incredibly difficult to debate with them. If they want to live by might = right, then grant them that wish, and be sure to be mightier than them...

If they're economically socialist, then just pose to them the problem of pricing and allocating capital within a socialist system.

If they can offer a legitimate answer, then publish their findings and become world-famous overnight! (no one has any good answers...)

[Zavoi]

I admire Scandinavian countries. They have high taxes yes, but they don't pay for health care, education, or public transport.
The question to ask is "If it's so great, why does socialism have to forced on the people in the form of taxation?"

[constitutional]

Just because someone does well "making money" does not mean he needs to be punished with higher taxes. It totally debases the notion of the American Dream.

If anything, we should be encouraging the spirit of independence and entrepreneurship. If that happens -- new inventions, ideas and creativity will engulf this nation.

[Mesogen]

I love that second one.

They have high taxes...

but they don't pay for health care, education, or public transport.

Uh, what?

[Banana]

Personally, I'd just argue that if they want socialism to work, they will have to make it small enough for transparency and accountability to be meaningful. The farther you put the bureaucrat from his constituent, the harder it is to reform the system.

Ask them how come African tribe always manage to work so well together but we could not do the same for a country? Answer: It's because it's hard to hide your dirty dealings when everyone knows you personally.

So, I'm OK with socialism within a small jurisdiction (I'd have to say at municipal level; I don't see it working above that level), and then I point out that if the system doesn't work, people can literally vote with their feet. We wouldn't have that option in a nationwide socialism, at which only open revolution is the only option (in fact, that's what happens in some European countries).

[kimo]

I love that second one.

They have high taxes...

but they don't pay for health care, education, or public transport.

Uh, what?

Yes we do have high taxes.
Healt care far from being optimal and we still pay for dentist etc..
Public transport is certainly not free. Those who had been in Scandinavia knows that its actually extremelly expensive.
Education is long and FREE. Actually youngters get schooler ship. It´s definitely not enough to make through the month, but it`s better than nothing.But they still have to pay for books, materials etc..

[Fox McCloud]

Yes we do have high taxes.
Healt care far from being optimal and we still pay for dentist etc..
Public transport is certainly not free. Those who had been in Scandinavia knows that its actually extremelly expensive.
Education is long and FREE. Actually youngters get schooler ship. It´s definitely not enough to make through the month, but it`s better than nothing.But they still have to pay for books, materials etc..

thanks for the information--can you comment on anything negative on the education system? Again, it's great to hear from someone who lives directly in a country such as this.

[kimo]

thanks for the information--can you comment on anything negative on the education system? Again, it's great to hear from someone who lives directly in a country such as this.

Actually, in general, it´s difficult to find huges negativities. Besides that it takes too long ( i would personaly prefer Canadian termins), our universities are invated by Svedish and Norvegians, who would rather get education in Denmark and travel further, high schools and business colleges have big % of studets from China, Poland, Baltic and etc. by giving them educational permits to stay in country ( those who have rich parents, would rather prefer UK)..

[PismoPam]

I always tell people that government healthcare will look just like the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles, LONG line, no phone answers, terribly written paperwork, total waste of everyones time)

"Well, it doesn't HAVE to!"
Oh, but it will.
The DMV doesn't have to be like that either, but it IS.
One time a Canadian asked about our low sales tax (small resort town, 3% tax) and so I asked how much his sales tax is.
"25%"
Ah, so free healthcare isn't FREE!
DUH!

[kimo]

Social health care IS EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE. It eats a huge part of our national budget. Service is so and so ok., but all at all there are huge problems with it every year and far from being optimal...and remember Denmark has it for many years now...

[Banana]

What about the argument that socialized healthcare pays far less in administrative overhead than privatized, something to tune of 1-3 difference?

[Mesogen]

Yes we do have high taxes.
Healt care far from being optimal and we still pay for dentist etc..
Public transport is certainly not free. Those who had been in Scandinavia knows that its actually extremelly expensive.
Education is long and FREE. Actually youngters get schooler ship. It´s definitely not enough to make through the month, but it`s better than nothing.But they still have to pay for books, materials etc..

My point was that you ARE paying for it. It's not free.

[Mesogen]

I always tell people that government healthcare will look just like the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles, LONG line, no phone answers, terribly written paperwork, total waste of everyones time)

"Well, it doesn't HAVE to!"
Oh, but it will.
The DMV doesn't have to be like that either, but it IS.
One time a Canadian asked about our low sales tax (small resort town, 3% tax) and so I asked how much his sales tax is.
"25%"
Ah, so free healthcare isn't FREE!
DUH!

It depends on where you live. If you live in Nashville or somewhere like that the DMV takes 15 minutes. If you live in L.A. then you have to take the day off from work.

[kimo]

My point was that you ARE paying for it. It's not free.

I know. No offence. I just qouted a citat. Should have done from #1. We just discussing..