Guns Are Bad!!!!

[Dequeant]

Now that i have your attention:

First read this article, because it's awesome...
http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1985/2/1985_2_72.shtml

After all that reading, i present these for your viewing pleasure.

http://nothingtoxic.com/media/1204177383/Think_Twice_Before_You_Decide_to_Rob_a_Pawn_Shop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sECV2MVYEWI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7at_k8k5Fcg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywd5PPLK_iI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGP-8Uj7ac

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdm67OkmL3s

Ahhhh, the wonderful sound of bad people being shot by good people.

[maeqFREEDOMfree]

Ahhhh, the wonderful sound of bad people being shot by good people.

Awesome post thanks. The man from Texas is a neighbor I'd love to have. notice the tone in the reporter lady in that video stressing words like "deadly" and coming off as though the two people who were breaking into someone else's home and stealing that families property had an element of innocence.

the old man even called the police and said to the police something to the effect of, "...please get here, I'm not gonna let them get away with this. "

i wish my neighbor was "allowed" to defend my property in my state.

[Sandra]

The guy that shot from behingd the motel desk didn't give a crap that he almost shot that toddler, did he?

[Defining Obscene]

It was probably a bad angle, he would have to be a terrible shot with a CCW to hit the child..

[maeqFREEDOMfree]

The guy that shot from behingd the motel desk didn't give a crap that he almost shot that toddler, did he?


the robber sure didn't care about them either.

The angle makes it look close. Thankfully he was familiar with his gun and DIDN'T shoot any innocent people including the mother with child.

[pcosmar]

The guy that shot from behingd the motel desk didn't give a crap that he almost shot that toddler, did he?

??

Almost Shot? NO !
Missed? NO, Unless he was aiming at the child.

If I deliberately place a round 2 inches from your head, did I almost shoot you? or did I miss?
Do you understand shot placement?

Do you think everybody shoots like the cops?

[Sandra]

I know a little about guns and that was the stupidest display I ever saw. The guy shot after hiding behing the clerk as cover then used the toddler and Mom on the other side as cover, then shot AFTER the robber got his cash and was walking out the door.

For those of you that think it was a sound decision, ask any cop what would have happened if they mde the same move.

[Sandra]

??

Almost Shot? NO !
Missed? NO, Unless he was aiming at the child.

If I deliberately place a round 2 inches from your head, did I almost shoot you? or did I miss?
Do you understand shot placement?

Do you think everybody shoots like the cops?


This is truly the stupidest statement ever on this forum. :confused:
Never touch a gun.

[molly_pitcher]

Everytime I see this thread title, I hear Mr. Mackey from South Park. "M-Kay".

[GoDrNo]

I know a little about guns and that was the stupidest display I ever saw. The guy shot after hiding behing the clerk as cover then used the toddler and Mom on the other side as cover, then shot AFTER the robber got his cash and was walking out the door.

For those of you that think it was a sound decision, ask any cop what would have happened if they mde the same move.

Not debating whether or not it was a smart move on the clerks part, but as far as asking a cop besides my brother anything, I'll pass. I trust 99.95% of cops judgement about as far as I can throw them.

[coastie]

This is truly the stupidest statement ever on this forum. :confused:
Never touch a gun.

Actually, Sandra this quote by you :
I know a little about guns and that was the stupidest display I ever saw. The guy shot after hiding behing the clerk as cover then used the toddler and Mom on the other side as cover, then shot AFTER the robber got his cash and was walking out the door.

For those of you that think it was a sound decision, ask any cop what would have happened if they mde the same move ...is the stupidest statement ever on this forum.

A few things:

We'll define cover and concealment.

Cover: anything that may stop a bullet.

Concealment: anything that hides your position.

1. Neither the other clerk, nor the woman/child were in the line of fire from the clerk at any time. Where you see that the clerk used them as "cover" shows in fact that not only do you know "little about guns", you know nothing of tactics. He clearly used the other clerk to CONCEAL him drawing his pistol - nothing more.

2. The robber fired first. Watch the video again. The other clerk goes down as the clerk with the pistol extends his hand to fire. He nudges her with his left elbow, and she goes down.

You telling someone else (pcosmar) who obviously knows more of the subject than you is laughable, at best.

I'm in Law Enforcement, and carry a gun both while on duty and when I'm not. That guy did a great job in ensuring the threat was eliminated.

[pcosmar]

I know a little about guns

Damn little.

[boberino]

i wish my neighbor was "allowed" to defend my property in my state.

What the man did in Texas was illegal. You can only protect your property, not someone else's.

Legally, he committed murder.

[madengr]

I believe (just what I have read) that the castle doctrine in Texas applies to neighbors property if you are in charge of watching that property. That's not to say he was given permission though:

"You cannot take another person's life in defense of their property unless you're somehow given permission by the other person to protect their property," said Diepraam.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=4272882&page=1

I think one of the perps had a crow-bar, which if he felt threatened then he was within his legal right to shoot them.

[Doktor_Jeep]

Oh, THAT case.

[Dequeant]

I know a little about guns and that was the stupidest display I ever saw. The guy shot after hiding behing the clerk as cover then used the toddler and Mom on the other side as cover, then shot AFTER the robber got his cash and was walking out the door.

Actually, the good guy with the gun was an instructor for the NRA. He basically teaches the class people have to take to get their concealed weapons permits. If you notice, he goes as far to the right as he can. If he wanted to use the woman and child as cover, he simply could have stayed put and shot with them in the crossfire. Instead, he worked is way across the coworker, all the way to the right of the desk, THEN he drew and shot. FYI, all 3 rounds fired struck the bad guy. The bad guy actually fired blindly while running away.

Now, as far as Joe Horn in Texas goes, by Texas law, what he did was perfectly legal. His neighbor even testified that he had asked Mr Horn to "watch my place while i was away". A cop witnessed the entire shooting from his cruiser, and did not arrest him. That should at least tell you something. Now, if anyone is going to arrest him, it will be politicians.

If you REALLY want to make this discussion interesting, actually read the first article. It's long, but it's a true story about a bunch of soldiers who returned from WWII only to find that their Sheriff was running their town like a king.....complete with election fraud, unreasonable arrests, and extreme intimidation of the citizenry. Course, the soldiers didn't like that so they raided the local national guard armory and took the town by force. I won't spoil it for ya.

[billyjoeallen]

Battle of Athens article is great.

[Sandra]

Actually, the good guy with the gun was an instructor for the NRA. He basically teaches the class people have to take to get their concealed weapons permits. If you notice, he goes as far to the right as he can. If he wanted to use the woman and child as cover, he simply could have stayed put and shot with them in the crossfire. Instead, he worked is way across the coworker, all the way to the right of the desk, THEN he drew and shot. FYI, all 3 rounds fired struck the bad guy. The bad guy actually fired blindly while running away.

Now, as far as Joe Horn in Texas goes, by Texas law, what he did was perfectly legal. His neighbor even testified that he had asked Mr Horn to "watch my place while i was away". A cop witnessed the entire shooting from his cruiser, and did not arrest him. That should at least tell you something. Now, if anyone is going to arrest him, it will be politicians.

If you REALLY want to make this discussion interesting, actually read the first article. It's long, but it's a true story about a bunch of soldiers who returned from WWII only to find that their Sheriff was running their town like a king.....complete with election fraud, unreasonable arrests, and extreme intimidation of the citizenry. Course, the soldiers didn't like that so they raided the local national guard armory and took the town by force. I won't spoil it for ya.

Where are you getting the details of this incident?

[Doktor_Jeep]

Ah yes the Battle of Athens.

I also recall another story where blacks were being shot at during an election back in the day and they started shooting back.

[loveshiscountry]

Not debating whether or not it was a smart move on the clerks part, but as far as asking a cop besides my brother anything, I'll pass. I trust 99.95% of cops judgement about as far as I can throw them.

What a dumb blanket statement. Police are trained to handle situations. I'll take their judgement over yours anyday.

[pcosmar]

What a dumb blanket statement. Police are trained to handle situations. I'll take their judgement over yours anyday.

That is the stupid statement of the day. :(
Look at Atlanta. Cops shot an Old lady in her home and planted drugs to cover their ass.
Look at New York. Cops shot up a whole street to shoot UNARMED men.
Look at Chicago where Cops are nothing but Thugs.
Look at the Cato Institute Study.
http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

Look at the facts, Look at the murders, abuses,and incompetence.
Don't believe the propaganda.

[madengr]

Some interesting stats (not exact since they are from memory)

Cops hit their targets (during shootings) 20% of the time (i.e. average 1 hit every 5 shots)
Civilians hit 40%
90% of shootings occur at distances under 3 feet.
10% of gunshot wounds are fatal

Of cops that are in training at the police academy:
10% are "gun nuts" like us and shoot regularly (outside of work)
40% have shot a gun maybe once in their lives and show some interest in them
50% dislike guns and show absolutely no interest in their use, other than minimum competency for qualification.

Where did I lean this from? The copy who taught my CCW class (also teaches at police academies) and who has taught me about close quarters shooting, low light, carbine, and shotgun via his classes. He will to tell you many (if not a majority) of the cops are minimally competent at shooting. So when people assume that cop=good_with_gun they are wrong. Maybe the bell curve is slightly better for cops, but it's still a bell curve peaked slightly above minimum competency.

[amy31416]

Thanks to the OP for the videos, because of them I'm going to sign up for a training course.

[Doktor_Jeep]

The biggest difference between police shootings and citizen shootings is that when Joe Blow screws up or there is any question of whether or not he should have used force, he is subject to arrest and possibly bankrupcy from legal bills if not incarceration while cops get paid leave (usually called "administrative leave").

Throw in a DA or police chief with a power issue or who is a gun hater and innocent people get screwed.

People who trust the judgement of cops and government are that sort who would drive themselves to the death camps.

[MarcS]

The guy that shot from behingd the motel desk didn't give a crap that he almost shot that toddler, did he?

I've actually talked to the guy. The fisheye lens and the angle of the camera make it look close, but she was a good 3 feet to the side. The motel clerk was also well trained and, in fact, a pistol instructor. Not a difficult shot.