10% of our population is in prison

[torchbearer]

over half of them are non-violent drug related charges
anyone familiar with that System of a Down song that talks about them building a another prison for you and me?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23392251

NEW YORK - For the first time in U.S. history, more than one of every 100 adults is in jail or prison, according to a new report documenting America’s rank as the world’s No. 1 incarcerator. It urges states to curtail corrections spending by placing fewer low-risk offenders behind bars.

Using state-by-state data, the report says 2,319,258 Americans were in jail or prison at the start of 2008 — one out of every 99.1 adults. Whether per capita or in raw numbers, it’s more than any other nation.

The report, released Thursday by the Pew Center on the States, said the 50 states spent more than $49 billion on corrections last year, up from less than $11 billion 20 years earlier. The rate of increase for prison costs was six times greater than for higher education spending, the report said.

The steadily growing inmate population “is saddling cash-strapped states with soaring costs they can ill afford and failing to have a clear impact either on recidivism or overall crime,” the report said.

Susan Urahn, managing director of the Pew Center on the States, said budget woes are pressuring many states to consider new, cost-saving corrections policies that might have been shunned in the recent past for fear of appearing soft on crime.

Kansas, Texas act to slow growth
“We’re seeing more and more states being creative because of tight budgets,” she said in an interview. “They want to be tough on crime. They want to be a law-and-order state. But they also want to save money, and they want to be effective.”

The report cited Kansas and Texas as states that have acted decisively to slow the growth of their inmate population. They are making greater use of community supervision for low-risk offenders and employing sanctions other than reimprisonment for offenders who commit technical violations of parole and probation rules.

“The new approach, born of bipartisan leadership, is allowing the two states to ensure they have enough prison beds for violent offenders while helping less dangerous lawbreakers become productive, taxpaying citizens,” the report said.

While many state governments have shown bipartisan interest in curbing prison growth, there also are persistent calls to proceed cautiously.

“We need to be smarter,” said David Muhlhausen, a criminal justice expert with the conservative Heritage Foundation. “We’re not incarcerating all the people who commit serious crimes. But we’re also probably incarcerating people who don’t need to be.”

[billyjoeallen]

that's 1% not 10%. still it is way too high-much higher than any other country, includinf police state red china.

[torchbearer]

oops.

[CGMike]

My math skills may be a little rusty but isn't 1 out of 100 only 1%?

[bucfish]

Pretty sad when the "Land of the Free and the Home of the brave" Has more people in prison than China which has More than 3 times Our population.

[torchbearer]

My math skills may be a little rusty but isn't 1 out of 100 only 1%?

yeh, 10 would be 10%.

[torchbearer]

1% is still 3,500,000 people.

[CurtisLow]

Still it's fucked up! accuse my french. Has anyone every thought that if 3,500,000 people are in jail they can't vote. Is there something behind locking up so many people?

Other then the corporations making a lot of money running the prisons......

[mrsat_98]

Pretty sad when the "Land of the Free and the Home of the brave" Has more people in prison than China which has More than 3 times Our population.

Some people just don't get it ! Thats Land of the FEE and Home of the SLAVE !!

[sophocles07]

I just saw this and was about to post it when I saw your post.

This is simply ridiculous.

[WRellim]

I just saw this and was about to post it when I saw your post.

This is simply ridiculous.

It's NOT exactly "news" in that it just happened or anything you know.

The number of people in prison/jail has been steadily increasing over the past two decades... this didn't happen overnight.

And what the article does NOT talk about is the fact that another 1% of the population is employed guarding/counseling, etc.

Throw in another 1/2 to 1% of the population involved in the "justice" system in other capacities and you're approaching 3% or higher of the POPULATION (which if you subtract the kids & retired) and you're approaching almost 10% of the "workforce" (age demographic) ...being involved either locked up or with the locking up.

Fun stuff. See you can't end the War On Drugs... unemployment would go sky high.

[benhaskins]

1% of adults

i dont think u can go to prison if u are under 18 unless there are extreme circumstances

[Agora]

as I remember USA 5% population of the world, 25% prisoners of the world...

[Highland]

Yep the report is on Nightly News with Brian Williams....1 in 15 Blacks are in Jail and 1 in 35 Hispanics..................furthermore... we have more in jail than any other country more than China and Russia. Now there is proof of a MILITARY STATE! THIS IS ATROCIOUS AND WE HAVE TO HELP BRING IN THE ENLIGHTENMENT! REVOLUTION

[mmink15]

It's America's obsession with putting minorities behind bars so that white America feels safe. I'm a caucasion myself, but I am frustrated by the fact that our prisons are full, and full of blacks and hispanics. It is no wonder race relations are such a huge issue in this country, I'd be curious to see the actual numbers not only on amount of persons in prison, but the number of minorities as well.

[Agora]

I this facts struck me:

South Africa under Apartheid was internationally condemned as a racist society.

South Africa under apartheid (1993), Black males: 851 per 100,000
U.S. under George Bush (2006), Black males: 4,789 per 100,000

i.e. mostly result of "war on drugs"

[pcosmar]

Been there, done that.
I am intimately aware.
Older wiser and more careful today.
My skills may be needed when they open the camps.

[Ex Post Facto]

Well how many have been to prison, or are on probation or parole. I bet those numbers are about 10% if not more.

[Highland]

I this facts struck me:

South Africa under Apartheid was internationally condemned as a racist society.

South Africa under apartheid (1993), Black males: 851 per 100,000
U.S. under George Bush (2006), Black males: 4,789 per 100,000

i.e. mostly result of "war on drugs"

What is the ratio of American population in jail per square miles compared to South Africa's...then you would have some data that would "indicate" a parallel between the two countries.;)

[torchbearer]

Well how many have been to prison, or are on probation or parole. I bet those numbers are about 10% if not more.

True. Just 1% are currently in... count all the people who have been ruined by the drug war, that number could be 10% or higher.

[WRellim]

Well how many have been to prison, or are on probation or parole. I bet those numbers are about 10% if not more.

And none of them can vote while on probation or parole.

In *many* states they lose the right to vote forever.

Given the demographics of the incarceration rates... that DOES have political significance.

[Highland]

And none of them can vote while on probation or parole.

In *many* states they lose the right to vote forever.

Given the demographics of the incarceration rates... that DOES have political significance.

Not only that, but they have to pay taxes as felons and have no vote or 'representation'...theres is a truly unlawful tax if anyone is taxed unlawfully.:(

[pcosmar]

Well how many have been to prison, or are on probation or parole. I bet those numbers are about 10% if not more.

I saw a study a while back,but can't find it right now.
It was a few years ago, and was just short of 5 million Non Incarcerated Felons.
I have received a Restoration of Rights, I can and DO Vote.

[WRellim]

I saw a study a while back,but can't find it right now.
It was a few years ago, and was just short of 5 million Non Incarcerated Felons.
I have received a Restoration of Rights, I can and DO Vote.

Ok this is going to seem kind of "off-topic" but I think its related (in my mind anyway).


The Constitution is purportedly the "highest" law of the land. The Bill of Rights which is perhaps one of the most important part of it contains significant "constraints" that those in office (mainly "Congress") are supposed to be obedient to.


In effect, violating the Bill of Rights should be a MAJOR CRIME. (And there ARE indeed federal laws and punishments for violations of such -- but NONE apply to the legislators).

So I have often wondered... let's say Rep. Doe writes a bill, which Rep. Roe also "sponsors" -- it passes the House, the Senate, is signed or allowed by the President to become law. Two years later the legislation is determined to be UNconstitutional as a major violation of one (or more) of the rights enumerates in the BoR.

Now what *consequence* happens to Reps. Doe and Roe? Anything?

Keep in mind that they have just violated the "supreme" law of the land -- something that has the power to affects and "violate" every single citizen (and resident) in the country. Is this not a WORSE crime than a "felony"?

Yet what typically happens? Well Reps. Doe and Roe get relected, they get to vite themselves raises, additional pensions and the like. Often they seek, and achieve even HIGHER offices (Congressmen thus becoming Senators, or Governors, or accepting some Appointed government position or another).

And like ALL criminals, in the meantime, Reps. Doe and Roe typically return to the scene of the crime... and continue in their anti-social ways.

They go back to the drawing board and do and come up with an ever-so-slightly DIFFERENT version of their previous bill -- just different enough to somehow slide underneath or around or past some "loophole" that will keep it from also being rendered unconstitutional.

Does that make ANY sense?



You see, while I believe the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are remarkable documents; they are also extremely flawed.

And the most blatant flaw is the one above. The Bill of Rights has no "teeth" -- nothing happens to those who violate it in the worst ways possible (the passing of laws that contravene those rights permanently, and for the entire population, for generations thereafter).

How did this happen? If we look historically I think we can find in the earliest violations (for example the "Alien and Sedition" laws from the first Adams administration) -- they were simply allowed to "expire" and the Jefferson administration decided to simply not "play the blame game" (to use our modern phrase) and instead to "move on" to the future, and put the past behind them.


Which set a really horrible precedent.

To wit, the Adams administration "got away with murder."



Now in all seriousness, why do we do this with the "big" crimes, but not with the "little" ones?

We go to great extent to investigate, prosecute, convict and incarcerate someone who kills (sometimes even simply accidentally or without premeditation) a single human being.

But then -- let us use the Waco or Ruby Ridge as an example -- when we have someone (Janet Reno) in a government position who in effect orders (pre-meditation) the deaths of a whole host of individuals, and then later PUBLICLY takes "responsibility" for the whole thing, and we... do nothing.

Other examples can surely be made.

But my points are these:

The "supreme" law of the land gets violated on a nearly DAILY basis, by people in government who then are NEVER held accountable.


One of the reasons for this is that our society has adopted a de facto mentality of "moving on" rather than one of solid "accountability."


However, the mentality of "moving on" is ONLY present when the people who violate the trust are those in positions of power and authority.


Plain "citizens" are nearly ALWAYS held accountable (when was the last time you heard a police officer say "well, you WERE speeding, but let's not play the 'blame game' here, let's just 'move on' -- after all it's 'water under the bridge' -- so have a nice day.")



If you want to understand the ROOT of the problems in our society, think on the above for a bit. And then consider how often YOU use those phrases: "let's not play the 'blame game'" or its twin "let's just 'move on'" -- and pay careful attention to the context of what you are excusing, and exactly WHO you are allowing "off the hook"...

Think about it.

[smileylovesfreedom]

Our politicians break tons of laws and run around free....

And the "citizens" are jailed at the drop of a hat....

Is this what a police state looks like? :mad:

[Ex Post Facto]

I brought this up in another thread a while back.


We need a new ACT passed, here is my proposal.

1.) All officials that represent the people of the United States can be held accountable by the public through petition.
2.) 1 million signatures needed to start an independant investigation on public officials for failing to uphold the constitution.
3.) 10 million signatures needed to immediately begin an investigation and that official is temporarily relieved of their duties.
4.) 50 million signatures and that official is removed from office without trial.

We can call this the Politician Oath Accountability Act.

The average person would get fired from their job for breaking a policy. We need this same accountability for elected officials.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=87193&highlight=Accountability+ACT&page=4

[Anti Federalist]

Our politicians break tons of laws and run around free....

And the "citizens" are jailed at the drop of a hat....

Is this what a police state looks like? :mad:

Yes, that is just what a police state looks like.

Heavy handed and arbitrary enforcement of some laws, against some people, some of the time.

Little or none for other laws and/or other people.

But for those in the second group, the threat of that remains, step out of line for any reason, or just be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and bamm-o, into jail you go.

And that is the point of a police state.

They know that they can't arrest everybody, but if you keep enough "thunderbolts" falling, if the people are kept in a low grade state of perpetual anxiety that, at any moment, at any time, for any or no reason whatsoever, the forces of the state could swoop down upon you, and if not killing you outright in botched "no knock" SWAT raid or an errant taser strike, they will enmesh you in a legal nightmare from which you will never extricate yourself from.

The criminal element pays no mind to such things, like the fallacy of "gun control", a crook doesn't file or care about paperwork or tax returns.

But for the rest of us, trying to be "law abiding" decent citizens, that works powerfully to keep people in check.

[Anti Federalist]

I saw a study a while back,but can't find it right now.
It was a few years ago, and was just short of 5 million Non Incarcerated Felons.
I have received a Restoration of Rights, I can and DO Vote.

I saw one that had that number at 8.5 million.

In all prisons, "house arrest", "braceleted" Martha Stewart style, paroled or on probation.

[humanic]

over half of them are non-violent drug related charges
anyone familiar with that System of a Down song that talks about them building a another prison for you and me?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23392251

DRRR DHHRRRNN DRRNNN DHHRRRNN DRRR DHHRRRNN DRRNNN DHHRRRNN DRRR DHHRRRNN DRRNNN DHHRRRNN DRRR DHHRRRNN DRRDRRDRRDRR
they're tryin to build a prison............................................ ..............................................

[CurtisLow]

We need a new ACT passed, here is my proposal.

1.) All officials that represent the people of the United States can be held accountable by the public through petition.

2.) 250 Thousand signatures needed to start an independent investigation on public officials for failing to uphold the constitution.

3.) 400 Thousand needed to immediately begin an investigation and that official is temporarily relieved of their duties.

4.) 1 million signatures and that official is removed from office without trial.

We can call this the Politician Oath Accountability Act.

The average person would get fired from their job for breaking a policy. We need this same accountability for elected officials.


I think the numbers needed to be lower...