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pinkmandy
02-25-2008, 11:31 PM
Who's in that wasn't before or hasn't moved yet?

For those who don't know anything about it, read www.freestateproject.org and be sure to read the 101 reasons link on the right. :D

Orgoonian
02-25-2008, 11:42 PM
I'll be there in March Pinkmandy!!!:D

pinkmandy
02-25-2008, 11:45 PM
Woot! We're looking at late spring, early summer (maybe sooner). Unfortunately we own our house here in VA so we have to do some clean up and get it on the market for a few months and if it doesn't sell find a tenant. Ugh. If we rented we'd be job searching right now and planning the move yesterday, lol.

Orgoonian
02-25-2008, 11:54 PM
Woot! We're looking at late spring, early summer (maybe sooner). Unfortunately we own our house here in VA so we have to do some clean up and get it on the market for a few months and if it doesn't sell find a tenant. Ugh. If we rented we'd be job searching right now and planning the move yesterday, lol.

Yea,i hear ya.
Fortunately for me, the housing market is very good here in central Oregon,with all the Kalifornians moving up.(No offense to my fellow liberty lovers from there)My house should sell very quickly.
My son will be staying here,and handling the transaction for me.
I hope all goes well for you,i am very excited about this.

pinkmandy
02-26-2008, 12:02 AM
Well I guess I'll be meeting you some Tuesday at Murphy's Taproom! ;)

BuddyRey
02-26-2008, 12:20 AM
I love the idea of forming a free state community, but see a few problems with it also. For example, if you concentrate all the intelligent, well-informed libertarians in just one small geographic area, it

A. Makes it harder for people who don't have access to these ideas to be influenced by them.

and

B. Makes it a lot easier for a corrupt U.S. Gov't to hunt us all down.

I think there's something to be said for tactical dispersal, and maintaining wider-ranging spheres of influence by being active in our own communities. However, I did vote "I'm still thinking about it", because the idea of living in a libertarian Utopia (even a balls-cold one) is mighty tempting.

porcupine
02-26-2008, 12:20 AM
Well I guess I'll be meeting you some Tuesday at Murphy's Taproom! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykYVIUk-mqs

pinkmandy
02-26-2008, 12:32 AM
I love the idea of forming a free state community, but see a few problems with it also. For example, if you concentrate all the intelligent, well-informed libertarians in just one small geographic area, it

A. Makes it harder for people who don't have access to these ideas to be influenced by them.

and

B. Makes it a lot easier for a corrupt U.S. Gov't to hunt us all down.

I think there's something to be said for tactical dispersal, and maintaining wider-ranging spheres of influence by being active in our own communities. However, I did vote "I'm still thinking about it", because the idea of living in a libertarian Utopia (even a balls-cold one) is mighty tempting.


I would agree with you in some situations but I think our situation is dire. It is MUCH easier to be hunted down and taken away without your neighbors, communities saying anything when you're alone. In Russia the agents came in the middle of the night, no one said anything, everyone just hoped they wouldn't knock on their doors. If it comes to that sort of situation, I want to be in a state or area surrounded by folks who have guns, know their rights, and are willing to not let the officials in. I know that won't happen here in my area in VA.

I also think the govt has already hunted us down, they know where we are. They monitor these boards and similar ones all over the net. If I'm going to be hunted down I hope to be among like minded freedom lovers when/if it happens- God knows my current neighbors wouldn't do a thing other than discuss how I must have been a terrorist.

And if we succeed, we will influence the whole country. If we don't, then we'll have each other to depend on. If nothing else, I want to live among people who know how to take care of themselves and won't be stealing my food (or much worse because we know how some people become animals in times of crisis- I have kids, kwim?).

As you can see I'm totally pumped up about NH. I feel like I'm being called "home" or something. :o :D


Oh, the weather isn't so bad in the whole state. You can go to weather.com and plug in different towns to see the monthly avgs for the entire year for that area.

And...if all else fails we can hide in the mountains. Around 85% of NH is still wooded!

porcupine
02-26-2008, 08:44 AM
I love the idea of forming a free state community, but see a few problems with it also. For example, if you concentrate all the intelligent, well-informed libertarians in just one small geographic area, it

A. Makes it harder for people who don't have access to these ideas to be influenced by them.



Because we have so much influence now?




B. Makes it a lot easier for a corrupt U.S. Gov't to hunt us all down.



You think it'll be easier to fight back all by yourself, while free staters will have thousands of people to back them up?




I think there's something to be said for tactical dispersal

Sure, that strategy is working out so well for us right now...not.

pinkmandy
02-26-2008, 09:24 PM
I've converted a friend! She was going to move out of the country and is now going to try NH first. :)

freedom-maniac
02-27-2008, 03:22 PM
Where's the poll option for:

"Screw NH, and give it back to the Indians after electing Hitlery and McWar"?

pinkmandy
02-29-2008, 11:02 PM
Hitlery and McCain aren't that giving. ;)

porcupine
03-03-2008, 12:37 AM
Where's the poll option for:

"Screw NH, and give it back to the Indians after electing Hitlery and McWar"?

The fact is Ron Paul hasn't won ANY states so that isn't a very good criterion (and even if he had, it would still be a bad criterion).

Ron Paul did better in New Hampshire than in ANY PRIMARY IN THE COUNTRY! To complain it wasn't an absolute victory is ridiculous.

Is it bad that he couldn't win anywhere? Yeah! If this country weren't on the brink, we wouldn't need a Free State Project. We could work where we live. BUt we are on the brink and the old methods won't work.

New Hampshire is America's second freest state (I'd say Alaska is more free), but it is not yet free. The community of free staters will change that.

Luft97
03-03-2008, 12:53 AM
You left out the option : I like the idea of the free state but New Hampshire is not an option.

FreeStater
03-03-2008, 07:34 AM
You left out the option : I like the idea of the free state but New Hampshire is not an option.

just mark the "I'd rather be a slave than cold" option. The reasons may be different, but it amounts to the same thing.

porcupine
03-03-2008, 08:06 AM
just mark the "I'd rather be a slave than cold" option. The reasons may be different, but it amounts to the same thing.

Exactly

Richie
03-03-2008, 11:48 AM
Free states ranked from best to least:

1. Montana
2. Alaska
3. New Hampshire

In my opinion, New Hampshire is definitely not the freest state in the union. However, it's the one with the best career opportunities.

porcupine
03-03-2008, 02:35 PM
Free states ranked from best to least:

1. Montana
2. Alaska
3. New Hampshire

In my opinion, New Hampshire is definitely not the freest state in the union. However, it's the one with the best career opportunities.

I think Alaska is the freest state, but it has two problems. We would never get a significant number of people form the lower 49 to move there and those who moved would be too spread out to form a Free Stater community (which is, after all, much of what this is all about: synergy).

New Hampshire was a good pick. It's where the action is. It's where I'm staying and am happy to be.

hawks4ronpaul
03-03-2008, 05:02 PM
I did not find the other poll about choosing states so I will post this state comparison here.

The system is biased toward big government so do not take the grades at face value.

However, NH plummeted from 2005 to 2008.

I am not sure if you can blame that on the Democrat takeover.

http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/initiatives_detail.aspx?initiativeID=36072



http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/

porcupine
03-03-2008, 05:57 PM
I don't know what you call "performance," but New Hampshire has a super-lean budget, meaning it doesn't provide alot of services that other states do. It's DMV isn't even open 40 hours per week.

And we love it :)

porcupine
03-12-2008, 11:21 AM
Good news is beginning to trickle in from local elections in the Free State (New Hampshire) and it's showing how much libertarians can do when they work together.

At least one free stater was elected (http://www.nhliberty.org/forum/index.php?topic=518.msg3152#msg3152)(which adds to the growing list).

Also, since most taxes are collected through the local government and much of local government is controlled by Town Meetings (a form of direct democracy unique to New England), a few free staters congregated in one town can do alot as well as Free Staters in Grafton recently showed us (http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=14948.msg181985#msg181985).

LibertiORDeth
03-12-2008, 11:21 AM
Hello,

For those of you who haven't joined yet, the new Liberty Island Forum is now online. The link is:

www.libertyisland.tk

without the threat of terrorism;
where peace reigns;
where the free market decides the value of goods and services;
with a beautiful climate and almost perfect weather;
with rolling hills, beautiful forests, and a clear blue sky;
with farms equipped with the most modern farming techniques;
with no tariffs, no property tax, and free trade;
where competing currencies are not outlawed;
where your children can roam peacefully and safely;
where people can earn money for themselves and their families;
with a strong infrastructure;

Imagine Liberty Island, a place where all of the above will be true. But we need people like you who want a place like this to raise their families. Join Liberty Island forum; Register, post, discuss, and plan, so that we can make this happen.

Jane Aitken
03-16-2008, 07:46 PM
Cool people are here:

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Keith+Murphy+has+dreams+of+m aking+it+big+here+in+NH&articleId=931731d4-0536-4587-b3bf-4599268091bd

porcupine
03-16-2008, 09:07 PM
Cool people are here:

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Keith+Murphy+has+dreams+of+m aking+it+big+here+in+NH&articleId=931731d4-0536-4587-b3bf-4599268091bd

Keith Murphy is an amazing guy. (And a Free Stater)

ItsTime
03-16-2008, 09:13 PM
I am sorry, but the New Hampshire freestate project is well intended. But will fail. For the simple reason more liberals are moving from Boston and its subs than patriots moving in. Unless you come to New Hampshire willing to have 5 kids and wait 2 generations to change the state then I would pick another state already open for the movement.

Those are just the harsh realities from someone who lives in New Hampshire.

porcupine
03-16-2008, 09:20 PM
I am sorry, but the New Hampshire freestate project is well intended. But will fail. For the simple reason more liberals are moving from Boston and its subs than patriots moving in. Unless you come to New Hampshire willing to have 5 kids and wait 2 generations to change the state then I would pick another state already open for the movement.

Those are just the harsh realities from someone who lives in New Hampshire.

You're completely wrong. The refugees coming to low-tax New Hampshire from Massachusetts are actually mostly conservative, low-tax types. Here's a link (http://www.opinionjournal.com/cc/?id=110010793)

ItsTime
03-16-2008, 09:21 PM
ya we proved that in the election! Give me a break. My part of New Hampshire did better than those areas. My area is next to socialist VT. I guess i should have said NEO-con not liberal.


You're completely wrong. The refugees coming to low-tax New Hampshire from Massachusetts are actually mostly conservative, low-tax types.

Here's a link (http://www.opinionjournal.com/cc/?id=110010793)

porcupine
03-16-2008, 09:35 PM
ya we proved that in the election!


Yes, we actually did. Ron Paul did better in New Hampshire than in any other primary

ItsTime
03-16-2008, 09:37 PM
I am not trying to belittle the efforts. I just think it is not realistic. I say keep your fight going. You have done a lot of good here. I guess proof me wrong :)


Yes, we actually did. Ron Paul did better in New Hampshire than in any other primary

porcupine
03-16-2008, 09:41 PM
I am not trying to belittle the efforts. I just think it is not realistic. I say keep your fight going. You have done a lot of good here. I guess proof me wrong :)

Feel free to help out.

What exactly isn't realistic now?

pinkmandy
03-16-2008, 11:06 PM
Today I read about some great changes in the NH homeschool laws that were brought about by a freestater. :)

We need to come together somewhere. If our economy falls apart we need at least ONE state to stand up and fight the socialist environment that will ensue. Scattered across the country, we will be powerless in the face of economic chaos and sheep en masse clamoring for handouts. We MUST be together.

porcupine
03-17-2008, 01:56 PM
Scattered across the country, we will be powerless in the face of economic chaos and sheep en masse clamoring for handouts. We MUST be together.

^
This

shadow26
03-21-2008, 09:23 AM
Do NOT move to New Hampshire...astronomical rents, backbreaking property taxes, horrible weather...nasty, nasty, nasty.

hawks4ronpaul
03-21-2008, 09:28 AM
Can anyone please reply to this:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=126318

Thank you.
http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/

Kludge
03-21-2008, 09:34 AM
I'll be warm and cozy on Liberty Island (http://www.phpbber.com/phpbb/portal.php?mforum=libertyisland) instead ;)

crazyfingers
03-21-2008, 10:37 AM
Do NOT move to New Hampshire...astronomical rents, backbreaking property taxes, horrible weather...nasty, nasty, nasty.

Give me a break. I don't know where you live but the rent and property taxes are comparable to other states (possibly even cheaper), and the lack of an income/sales tax means the overall burden is lower. As far as the weather, it's a similar climate to about half the U.S. It's not like it's the tundra...

porcupine
03-21-2008, 12:01 PM
Do NOT move to New Hampshire...astronomical rents, backbreaking property taxes, horrible weather...nasty, nasty, nasty.

Overall taxes in NH are the lowest of any state in the USA. There's no income or sales tax. The weather isn't bad, and even if it were, you putting your comfort ahead of liberty and freedom would mean you wouldn't fit in in New Hampshire anyway.

pinkmandy
03-21-2008, 06:01 PM
We are moving in April! A fellow freestater has an empty house for my fam to use for 2 months- no rent! So we are speeding up our plans, we are packing now, and should be moving in the week of the 6th and we'll have 2 months to get to know NH and decide where we would be most comfortable, where we will work, etc.

shadow26
03-22-2008, 06:35 AM
Give me a break. I don't know where you live but the rent and property taxes are comparable to other states (possibly even cheaper), and the lack of an income/sales tax means the overall burden is lower. As far as the weather, it's a similar climate to about half the U.S. It's not like it's the tundra...

I forgot the hundreds of dollars involved in registering a car and the gangs that have overrun Manchester and Nashua. It is currently 21 degrees with a howling wind out of the northwest. You are severely limited in the types of crops you can grow. There is more freedom in the south or west. Look at the people on the Free State forum having trouble finding housing. Rents are well over $1000 per month for ANYTHING bigger than a crackerbox. If you like Boston, you'll LOVE New Hampshire. Otherwise, forget it. (Property taxes are roughly TEN TIMES more than most southern states.) Oh, yeah...toll roads. Yeah...you'll save so much on taxes you won't know what to do with the money. :rolleyes:

shadow26
03-22-2008, 06:44 AM
Overall taxes in NH are the lowest of any state in the USA. There's no income or sales tax. The weather isn't bad, and even if it were, you putting your comfort ahead of liberty and freedom would mean you wouldn't fit in in New Hampshire anyway.

I'm from New Hampshire. I left. Anybody with any common sense leaves. Overall taxes are the lowest of any state in the US? LOLOL!!! ALL statistics can be manipulated to provide any outcome you desire.

AisA1787
03-22-2008, 11:19 AM
I'm from New Hampshire. I left. Anybody with any common sense leaves. Overall taxes are the lowest of any state in the US? LOLOL!!! ALL statistics can be manipulated to provide any outcome you desire.

Where did you move to? I'm considering a job in NH, trying to get some pros and cons about the state...

shadow26
03-22-2008, 01:14 PM
Where did you move to? I'm considering a job in NH, trying to get some pros and cons about the state...

That is my gripe with the Free State people...you NEVER see the negatives regarding New Hampshire; which are considerable. You would be AMAZED at the number of young people trying their best to move away, but they just can't afford it. Many in their twenties are STILL living with their parents because they can't find housing, and when they do; it's just too expensive. If you can't afford the heat in winter, G-d have mercy on you. If you are somewhere where freezing to death isn't a concern, stay there. I lived in the south, and the cost of living was FAR LESS than New Hampshire, and that is just a cold hard FACT. FSP should present both the pros AND cons to people, and let them make a fair and honest evaluation for themselves. It is NOT 'paradise'...not by a long shot.

pcosmar
03-22-2008, 01:25 PM
There are pluses and minuses where ever you are at.
Folks in every state should be working to make there state a FREE state.
I have looked into the FSP and liked the idea, however I could not sell my farm for what it cost me.
What I might get would not give me enough to start over somewhere else.
I will work on correcting things here.
We all need to work on correcting this country, or the state you are in won't matter.

shadow26
03-22-2008, 01:31 PM
There are pluses and minuses where ever you are at.
Folks in every state should be working to make there state a FREE state.
I have looked into the FSP and liked the idea, however I could not sell my farm for what it cost me.
What I might get would not give me enough to start over somewhere else.
I will work on correcting things here.
We all need to work on correcting this country, or the state you are in won't matter.

Amen. Make the best of it wherever you are.

Orgoonian
03-22-2008, 05:07 PM
That is my gripe with the Free State people...you NEVER see the negatives regarding New Hampshire; which are considerable. You would be AMAZED at the number of young people trying their best to move away, but they just can't afford it. Many in their twenties are STILL living with their parents because they can't find housing, and when they do; it's just too expensive. If you can't afford the heat in winter, G-d have mercy on you. If you are somewhere where freezing to death isn't a concern, stay there. I lived in the south, and the cost of living was FAR LESS than New Hampshire, and that is just a cold hard FACT. FSP should present both the pros AND cons to people, and let them make a fair and honest evaluation for themselves. It is NOT 'paradise'...not by a long shot.

There are pro's,and cons everywhere you go.
What i don't understand is your vitriolic tone in this thread.
No one said NH was paradise.There is no such place,as it is human nature to always want more.

pinkmandy
03-23-2008, 09:33 AM
Orgoonian- well said. So how are you finding things? You just arrived, right? Our fam should be getting there the sometime around April 10th or so!

shadow26
03-28-2008, 05:22 AM
There are pro's,and cons everywhere you go.
What i don't understand is your vitriolic tone in this thread.
No one said NH was paradise.There is no such place,as it is human nature to always want more.

What vitriol? The truth? Of course there is no paradise. But I believe "Free Staters" go way beyond the pale in trying to present NH as such a paradise. Property taxes are ten times that of most southern states, which is why most rents exceed $1000...unless Section 8 is your cup of tea. Crime is getting WORSE, not better. (Read on line NH papers if you think I'm kidding.) It will cost you $300 - 500 (or worse) to register a car if it is reasonably new. (As low as $25 in some southern states.) Keep in mind that your car will rust away rather quickly due to the amount of salt on the roads, not to mention the salt air from the ocean. Heating costs are off the charts, and will only get WORSE over the coming years. (By the way...it is currently SNOWING...AGAIN.) Gardening is severely limited to vegetables that thrive in cold climates. Frost heaves beat the daylights out of your vehicles. By the way...how many are aware that moving trucks costs THREE TIMES as much LEAVING NH as enetring NH. Why? The demand for trucks heading south far exceeds that of trucks heading into NH. Own a gun? Don't transport it through New York...you will face a stiff jail sentence. (Check with GOA.) Hey...if you are already from a high-tax northern state; you might like NH. But I am willing to bet that if you are from the south or west; you won't be happy here. I would just like to see "Free Staters" take off the rose-colored glasses when making their case, and present BOTH pros and cons to people who may wind up regretting their move...many just won't be able to afford to correct the mistake. There are an awful lot of unhappy people here that wold love to move...they just can't afford it.

porcupine
03-28-2008, 07:42 AM
Shadow26, your post is full of exaggerations, half-truths and things that are so 180 degrees of the truth I'm not sure if it's just ignorance or outright lies.

You continue to compare New Hampshire to Southern States, most of which all will have a Real ID card required of their citizens. Most of which have sales taxes and income taxes (NH has none). None of which have gun laws as free as New Hampshire's and none of which that have legislatures as accessible as New Hampshire's.

You seem to focus alot on weather and other comforts. We are focused on liberty.




Property taxes are ten times that of most southern states

OVERALL taxes are the LOWEST IN THE NATION. On overall taxation of its citizens, New Hampshire is 50th. We have no income tax and no sales tax. Property taxes are higher becuase it's our only tax.

A great thing about property taxes is that they are collected and controlled by local governments, giving the local government much more say over the state government.


Crime is getting WORSE, not better.

This is where you start to border on outright lying. Can you please cite a statistic for this? New Hampshire was recently rated as THE SAFEST state - NUMBER ONE - in regards to crime. See here (http://money.aol.com/mortgage/safest-states-to-live-in). And it's actually been getting better over the last few years, not worse (as the link I posted points out)

Your credibility is already wearing thin, but let's continue with the rest of your post. Strike 1.



Keep in mind that your car will rust away rather quickly due to the amount of salt on the roads, not to mention the salt air from the ocean. Heating costs are off the charts, and will only get WORSE over the coming years

Hmm...interesting unbackced assertion but According to AOL Finance, New Hampshire is actually the best state in the country to own a car (http://money.aol.com/forbes/insurance/best-states-to-own-a-car?photo=2)! Strike 2. One of the reasons for this is that insurance costs are MUCH LOWER because New Hampshire doesn't require liability insurance for its motorists. Another example of live free or die. It's also the 2nd healthiest state (Heating costs are off the charts, and will only get WORSE over the coming years).

Liberty is more important to us than comfort. If it's not to you, please don't join us.

None of the 10 states considered by the Free State Project to be the Free State were warm. That wasn't done on purpose, but it just so happens that the warmer climates seem to have more nanny-government. It may have to do with the way people react to their climate and it may have to do with the amount of immigration to those states that creates large cities and oppressive governments. We wanted a small state that wasn't going to grow into another metropolis and that was small enough for us to make a difference. The other Free State Project (which is going to Wyoming) also chose a very cold state. You don't want a state that too many of the wrong type of people will be moving to, but you do want a balance so that people will be able to get jobs. This state's weather means that the South will continue to get bigger (which means a liberty activist will have less impact) and New Hampshire will most likely stay small.



Gardening is severely limited to vegetables that thrive in cold climates.

Some Free Staters are building green houses and those are working out very nicely. The pilgrims came to New England for religious freedom and worked it out just fine.



The demand for trucks heading south far exceeds that of trucks heading into NH.

It's a small state, that's why we'll be able to make a difference.


Own a gun? Don't transport it through New York...you will face a stiff jail sentence.

Now, that is just completely wrong! Federal "safe passage" law (18 U.S.C. 926A, 27 CFR 178.38) specifically states that you can transport a gun through any state, regardless of that state's laws, as long as the gun is unloaded, locked in a container (such as a trunk), and the states you are traveling to and from allow you to have that weapon. SRIKE 3!

You seem to be really grasping at straws here.



There are an awful lot of unhappy people here that wold love to move...they just can't afford it.

Right, the same people who are going to move to Canada if xyz doesn't happen soon? :rolleyes: The New Hampshire natives I've met love their state.

I've lived in 5 states (one out West, one in the South, and one in the midwest and one in the mid-atlantic) and none of them are as good as New Hampshire (also, all of them had young people who thought where they lived was the "worst place in the country." I bet it's the same everywhere).


So let's review. The only law you criticized in New Hampshire was the property taxes, which can be much lower depending on where you live AND overall New Hampshire has the lowest taxes in the country. You criticized a New York law that doesn't apply to people traveling to and from New Hampshire. You incorrectly complained about a non-existent "rising crime rate" that is the LOWEST IN THE COUNTRY and dropping, according to actual sources that I linked to. You criticized the weather (which could be viewed as a plus because it will prevent a bunch of big government people moving in and packing our small towns, which is what is happening in the South).

If that's the skeptics' best case, I'd say you made a damn good case for New Hampshire as the free state.

And let's not forget one more thing: New Hampshire has lots more people moving who are coming to fight for liberty all the time. You won't be alone here.

Come to PorcFest (http://www.porcfest.com/) and find out for yourself!