Ahmadinejad:1 Bush:0

[cageybee]

IAEA looks at U.S. evidence, rules there is no 'indication' Iran building nukes (http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2008/me_iran_02_23.asp)
Iran Stepping Up Its Uranium Work (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/25/world/middleeast/25iran.html?ref=world)
Ahmadinejad: No power can bully Iran (http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=44590&sectionid=351020104)

[JordanQ72]

Iran has lied to and hidden details from the IAEA on multiple occasions. It also has proven ties with the AQ Khan network. Coupled that with the fact that Libya was running a nuclear program right under the IAEA's nose until the US intercepted a shipment of parts, raises an interesting mix in this situation, one in which I just cannot side with Iran on.

[cageybee]

Iran has lied to and hidden details from the IAEA on multiple occasions. It also has proven ties with the AQ Khan network. Coupled that with the fact that Libya was running a nuclear program right under the IAEA's nose until the US intercepted a shipment of parts, raises an interesting mix in this situation, one in which I just cannot side with Iran on.

how about this, Iran always knows and knew that it has nuclear protection from Russia and China. Why would they need to develop very costly nuclear weapons?? They don't need to. Russia and China stand by Iran 100%.

They do however need a nuclear plant so that they don't have to use their oil for providing energy for their citizens and instead they can export more oil.

Iran never been a threat and will never be a threat.

Russians have "al Qaeda" in their Chechnya. How come their are not paranoid like we are about terrorists putting their hands on nuclear bomb like we are? How come they are confident that Iran is not a nuclear threat?

[JordanQ72]

how about this, Iran always knows and knew that it has nuclear protection from Russia and China.

Wrong. Neither country would even flinch if the US invaded Iran as long as we divided up the oil contracts as in Iraq.


Why would they need to develop very costly nuclear weapons?? They don't need to.

Because they want to blow Israel off the map and if they can get a terrorist group to do it, even better. Israel's Arab neighbors have proven time and time again their willingness to try and accomplish this, between rhetoric and action, their goals are clear. A nuclear program also isn't that expensive once you're actually at the point where you already have certain nuclear facilities up and running. Iran doesn't have to do the research on how to build the bomb, they've already bought those semantics for a crap version.


Russia and China stand by Iran 100%.

Again, wrong. Boys with toys basically.


They do however need a nuclear plant so that they don't have to use their oil for providing energy for their citizens and instead they can export more oil.

Stupidest reasoning I've ever heard. The amount of oil they use to produce electricity compared to how much they export is a non-factor compared to the production and maintenance costs.


Iran never been a threat and will never be a threat.

So the little embassy fiasco was what? How they say hello?


Russians have "al Qaeda" in their Chechnya. How come their are not paranoid like we are about terrorists putting their hands on nuclear bomb like we are?

Because not all Muslims like each other as much as you seem to think, nor act under the same umbrella. Chechen rebels are a nationalistic bunch running their own flavor of Islam over there. Add to the fact that the Russian military has no qualms about coming down on the area in force, with no measure of brutality spared, when incidents occur, a nuclear strike on a Russian soft target by the group would be self defeating to their goals. Not only would they have a 0% chance of ever forming a completely independent Chechnya, there probably wouldn't even be a Chechnya to form after that. Basically, MAD holds.


How come they are confident that Iran is not a nuclear threat?

They're not, and you can't point to anything hinting otherwise. Russia itself was a sieve of nuclear weaponry post collapsed, so much so that I'm surprised there haven't been terrorist acts using those weapons as of yet.


The most important point in this post though is that you failed to address any of my issues raised in terms of trusting the Iranian nuclear program.

[DealzOnWheelz]

Who cares if IRAN is a threat to Israel.

Let them bomb Israel as long as they stay the fuck away from us.

One who spends all his time watching his friends back will eventually find himself with a knife in his own.

[cageybee]

Wrong. Neither country would even flinch if the US invaded Iran as long as we divided up the oil contracts as in Iraq.



Because they want to blow Israel off the map and if they can get a terrorist group to do it, even better. Israel's Arab neighbors have proven time and time again their willingness to try and accomplish this, between rhetoric and action, their goals are clear. A nuclear program also isn't that expensive once you're actually at the point where you already have certain nuclear facilities up and running. Iran doesn't have to do the research on how to build the bomb, they've already bought those semantics for a crap version.



Again, wrong. Boys with toys basically.



Stupidest reasoning I've ever heard. The amount of oil they use to produce electricity compared to how much they export is a non-factor compared to the production and maintenance costs.



So the little embassy fiasco was what? How they say hello?



Because not all Muslims like each other as much as you seem to think, nor act under the same umbrella. Chechen rebels are a nationalistic bunch running their own flavor of Islam over there. Add to the fact that the Russian military has no qualms about coming down on the area in force, with no measure of brutality spared, when incidents occur, a nuclear strike on a Russian soft target by the group would be self defeating to their goals. Not only would they have a 0% chance of ever forming a completely independent Chechnya, there probably wouldn't even be a Chechnya to form after that. Basically, MAD holds.



They're not, and you can't point to anything hinting otherwise. Russia itself was a sieve of nuclear weaponry post collapsed, so much so that I'm surprised there haven't been terrorist acts using those weapons as of yet.


The most important point in this post though is that you failed to address any of my issues raised in terms of trusting the Iranian nuclear program.

Attack Iran and you attack Russia (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IJ26Ak06.html)

Russia and China become part of strategic alliance – Putin now looks at BRICS alliance (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) (http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/1627.asp)


Russia and China sign alliance (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/07/16/missile.treaty/)

Russia, China warn against antagonizing Iran (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-09/22/content_479883.htm)

The ties that bind China, Russia and Iran
(http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/GF04Ad07.html)

Russia says Iran poses no threat
(http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070816/71949222.html)

Russia does not consider Iran as threat: FM (http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200706/21/eng20070621_386350.html)

ElBaradei: Iran not an immediate nuclear threat (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2006-05/31/content_604728.htm)

Iran's top leader: Oil, gas reserves will dry up, Tehran needs to produce nuclear fuel (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-02-17-iran-nuclear-fuel_x.htm)

and as far as your argument about chechen rebels go, i say you are deeply misinformed about them and about muslims.

the more you'll believe in Bush lies, the more you'll stay in the dark.

when i made my argument, i made it based on what i've read from respectable news and not "rumors"

[New Governor Of Alaska]

Ahmadinejad:1 Bush:0

It's not just Bush actually. America's policies towards Iran were hostile before Bush.
So I'd say it's more like - Iran: 1 USA: 0

I think US is driving itself into a corner by supporting Israel.

[tekrunner]

Iran has lied to and hidden details from the IAEA on multiple occasions. It also has proven ties with the AQ Khan network. Coupled that with the fact that Libya was running a nuclear program right under the IAEA's nose until the US intercepted a shipment of parts, raises an interesting mix in this situation, one in which I just cannot side with Iran on.




Yes we can only hope that Iran someday holds itsself to the same nuclear disarmament standards and transparency the United States imposes on itsself....:)

[tekrunner]

Wrong. Neither country would even flinch if the US invaded Iran as long as we divided up the oil contracts as in Iraq.



Just like China would never flinch if we invaded North Korea. "They don't even have an Airforce"
All you had to do was read a Chinese newspaper at the time to know Chinas involvement was imminent if we pushed North Korean forces to the border. Now all you have to do is read a Russian newspaper and it'll tell you the same thing.

[jjank11]

It is such a joke. The rest of the world knows the hypocrisy that is the USA. We are out there trying to police the world and when other countries stand up against us then they are deemed "evil doers" or "undemocratic".

Maybe we should start applying are so-called democratic principles at home first before we shun others.

It is silly and the hardest part is that the whole baby boomers generation more or less thinks this way.

[maggiebott]

I'm a boomer and I don't think of Iran as a threat. The real threat is within our own nation and our political belly of lies and ignorance.

[syborius]

Iran has lied to and hidden details from the IAEA on multiple occasions. It also has proven ties with the AQ Khan network. Coupled that with the fact that Libya was running a nuclear program right under the IAEA's nose until the US intercepted a shipment of parts, raises an interesting mix in this situation, one in which I just cannot side with Iran on.

Do you enjoy shilling for your masters? Just wanted to finally air that out a bit.. It takes a real ardent scum bucket these days to be hawkish on military action.

[SigurdVolsung]

Iran isn't a threat to the U.S. and Ahmadinejad is just a figurehead. In Iran the Supreme Leader is Khamenei, and he holds almost all the power. Its in his interests
to let Ahmadinejad stir up some tension with the West, but only to a point. He always forces him to backdown when he goes too far. If you want to know what Iran

is really planning, figure out where Khamenei stands.

The other thing is, Iran supports Hezbollah true but no Iranians have ever been involved in a terrorist operation they are pretty much all Saudi's and Pakistani's.
I am also loathe to call Hezbollah a terrorist organization when most of their mission is to protect Southern Lebannon from Israeli aggression because the Lebanese

government is so weak.

Lastly the idea that Russia or China has Iran's back is ludicrous. If Iran was tactically nuked, would Russia or China be ready to respond, Hell No, except diplomatically
Russia supports Iran for now, because it serves their interests at the moment, and for no other reason. If there is one thing we know, if you have a strong means to defend yourself

you can probably evade American Aggression. Thats why they are possibly researching nuclear technology (although I happen to believe the argument that they want independant energy
sources besides oil considering they dont have the refining infrastructure to turn it into usable energy for themselves.) They buy most of their refined oil from other countries.

[UKObserver]

If you want to know what Iran

is really planning, figure out where Khamenei stands.

I believe he has issued a fatwa forbidding the production of nuclear weapons.

Anyway, if the only reason for the US to get involved is to protect Israel, why not let Israel do that? They have their own nukes, so I'm sure they're in a more powerful position than Iran if you honestly think Iran is trying to get nukes.

[jpwilhelm]

Tell me something, what gives anyone the right to say Iran can not have nukes when other bully countries like Israel has thousands of nukes?

Israel is the most dangerous country in the world, I would not trust them with anything. They lie, cheat and kill anyone that gets in their way of getting what they want. Israel is the only country in the world that I would not mind seeing it being turned to glass. But I know that there are plenty of innocent people there that are not Zionist scumb that would be killed, and that would be unfortunate.

[SigurdVolsung]

Tell me something what gives anyone the right to say Iran can not have nukes when other bully countries like Israel has thousands of nukes?

Because no bully wants to allow his victims the means to stand up for himself.

[cageybee]

Lastly the idea that Russia or China has Iran's back is ludicrous. If Iran was tactically nuked, would Russia or China be ready to respond, Hell No, except diplomatically
Russia supports Iran for now, because it serves their interests at the moment, and for no other reason. If there is one thing we know, if you have a strong means to defend yourself

you can probably evade American Aggression. Thats why they are possibly researching nuclear technology (although I happen to believe the argument that they want independant energy
sources besides oil considering they dont have the refining infrastructure to turn it into usable energy for themselves.) They buy most of their refined oil from other countries.

Russia in fact is 100% behind Iran. Iran is an ally of Russia and Russia under no circumstances is willing to give up Iran to the West.

You should read Z. Brzezinski's book "The Grand Chessboard" to understand why Russia will never let US attack or overtake Iran. Especially not now.

Saddam was a different story, he posed a threat to Iran and that's why Russia and China let US get in there. They were also happy about US getting in Iraq, because it would stress US economically and physically.

Russia and China also did not care about Afghanistan and viewed US invasion as a plus to them because Afghanistan is impossible to control and it is always going to be a stalemate and stressful for the invader.

The reason why Bush does not want to withdraw from Iraq right now, is because he is afraid that now that Saddam is gone, and now that there is a democracy, Russia could easily put agents in there to overthrow the current "pro-American" puppet by artificially creating a "revolution". If this happens, then US will completely lose its domination of the middle-east, and the oil will no longer be affordable to the US, Saudis will switch from USD to Euro too, USD will crash, economy will crash, etc, etc.

[PatriotOne]

Well crap. First all 16 CIA agencies make a report that Iran has no nuke program and now the IAEA is lying also. Bush knows better though and I trust him. I say Iran is going to have WMD if we have to go plant them there ourselves. I'm sure we will find some after we bomb the shit out of their country. After all, look how that workled out in Iraq. We found tons of........oh wait.................:eek:

[mjp1025]

I'm a baby boomer as well...we're much more logical than you might think. An American blitzkreig is certainly not the answer!

[syborius]

JordanQ72 is a sophisticated shill. He's a traitor to the constitution, to humanity, and to everything real Ron Paul supporters believe in. If you take a look at his posts they are all designed to diminish support for Ron Paul, to argue against his policies, to belittle the movement, to destroy his ideas. He is probably paid by the post, the worst of the kind too, because he knows exactly what he is doing, but he doesn't care, he just lives in a world of pure hate & greed. I hope more of you call him out on that.

[youngbuck]

JordanQ72 is a sophisticated shill. He's a traitor to the constitution, to humanity, and to everything real Ron Paul supporters believe in. If you take a look at his posts they are all designed to diminish support for Ron Paul, to argue against his policies, to belittle the movement, to destroy his ideas. He is probably paid by the post, the worst of the kind too, because he knows exactly what he is doing, but he doesn't care, he just lives in a world of pure hate & greed. I hope more of you call him out on that.

Uh oh, do we have another troll in our vicinity? COINTELPRO Specialist?