The only way to save the GOP

[christagious]

Ok, now with Nader running it's likely that the Dems are gonna be hurting in the General Election which could possibly mean that McCain will be the next president. This is very bad, although I hate Clinton and dislike Obama very much, I want to see one of them beat McCain. For this reason, the GOP is very cocky, it's overrun by neo-cons. The only way to knock the Republican party off of its high horse is to beat them, then maybe they'll go back to how the Republican party is supposed to be. Therefore, we need McCain to lose somehow, the only way to do this is to get a conservative independent candidate to take votes away from McCain, much like how Nader will do with either Clinton or Obama. Who is this candidate we need? None other than RON PAUL.
No matter what Ron Paul is the only way the GOP can be saved.

He needs to change his mind or else the Republican party will continue to be overrun by neocons.

[Feelgood]

Oh will you PLEASE stop already? Im so sick of the independent/third party crap already! GO AWAY! :mad:

[christagious]

Oh will you PLEASE stop already? Im so sick of the independent/third party crap already! GO AWAY! :mad:

Well, unless you want to see McCain win I think you'd have to agree with me.

I was originally against the idea of independent/third party, but now I'm thinking it's our only hope.

[nate895]

Nader will get less than 1% of the vote, and not have any effect on the election since Obama was going to trounce McCain anyway.

[WilliamC]

Nader will get less than 1% of the vote, and not have any effect on the election since Obama was going to trounce McCain anyway.

I agree. If it were just Hillary then Nader might make some in roads.

But he's old and has done this numerous times before.

Obama is the next big fresh thing, and Nader won't pull much if any support from him.

Right now it looks like Obama is going to be our next President.

But who knows what tomorrow will bring?

[christagious]

I agree. If it were just Hillary then Nader might make some in roads.

But he's old and has done this numerous times before.

Obama is the next big fresh thing, and Nader won't pull much if any support from him.

Right now it looks like Obama is going to be our next President.

But who knows what tomorrow will bring?

As long as the neocon-run GOP gets knocked of their pedestal I'll be happy. Then we can work on taking the party back

[nbhadja]

It doesn't matter if Obama or McCain is the next president, we are taking back the country either way!

[Ira Aten]

Write in Ron on Nov. 5th, 2008

[Peace&Freedom]

It appears the end game Paul has in mind (if he fails to win the GOP nomination and doesn't do an indy run) is for McCain to completely crash and burn in the election, leaving a devastated post-Bush Republican Party completely out of power (out of the White House, not in control of Congress). From this charred landscape, Paul supporters---the only party faction remaining with youth and energy in this scenario---would then start to rebuild the party in more of his image.

This is the reason he seems to be avoiding a non-GOP run: it would lead to the movement being scapegoated for the McCain defeat, and ruin efforts to rebuild/transform the party after the election. I think the Revolution should be trying to take over the LP and CP parties, and build a media company/network of our own, not just rework one dying party. But the above rationale for sitting out the election does have plausibility insofar as 'saving' the GOP goes.

[Phenom24]

I honestly believe that it needs a stake through the heart at this point.

Honestly, the "conservative" movement is going to look like a block in a southern town with a row of churches..

"Neo-Conservative Church of ______", First Fear-Monger Church of G.W. and Friends, Assembly of People who think Isolationism is Non-Intervention, Chapel of Chip Away at the Constitution, etc.. Just think about it for a second, in this election cycle alone, and in my own personal experience, I've seen:

Christians who would vote for Giuliani because he would be tough on terror. (though they completely disagree with him on everything else)
Christians who would vote for Huckabee because he would re-make the country more in God's image. (and trash the Constitution in the meantime)
People who would vote for McCain because he knows how to fight a war... (but they disagree with him on EVERYTHING)


The GOP is so splintered it's become disturbing. What would almost be funny, yet sad, is if the Constitution Party went mainstream, because all these Republicans would have to look at themselves and say "Don't WE believe in the Constitution, too?" The GOP has no spine left. It should be called the jellyfish party.

[Cleaner44]

Well, unless you want to see McCain win I think you'd have to agree with me.

I was originally against the idea of independent/third party, but now I'm thinking it's our only hope.

I can't agree with you at all. Nader will not steal votes from Obama IMO. One thing you will see in Nov is a united Democrat party bent on throwing Republicans out. The main goal is to run as far away from Bush as possible.

[WilliamC]

It appears the end game Paul has in mind (if he fails to win the GOP nomination and doesn't do an indy run) is for McCain to completely crash and burn in the election, leaving a devastated post-Bush Republican Party completely out of power (out of the White House, not in control of Congress). From this charred landscape, Paul supporters---the only party faction remaining with youth and energy in this scenario---would then start to rebuild the party in more of his image.

This is the reason he seems to be avoiding a non-GOP run: it would lead to the movement being scapegoated for the McCain defeat, and ruin efforts to rebuild/transform the party after the election. I think the Revolution should be trying to take over the LP and CP parties, and build a media company/network of our own, not just rework one dying party. But the above rationale for sitting out the election does have plausibility insofar as 'saving' the GOP goes.

By George I think you've got it!

That's pretty much my take on Ron Paul's long term strategy too.

In my neck of the woods the local Republican party is small and dominated by elderly folks who don't seem very happy with McCain as the nominee, just right for some fresh ideas like Ron Paul's and mine to get involved.

In areas where there is a vibrant GOP that the neocons are in firm control of it might very well make more sense to get involved with the local LP or CP instead.

Hopefully we've enough long-term supporters to do both.

[christagious]

I can't agree with you at all. Nader will not steal votes from Obama IMO. One thing you will see in Nov is a united Democrat party bent on throwing Republicans out. The main goal is to run as far away from Bush as possible.

I guess I'm just really going off of people blaming Nader for Gore's loss in 2000. History has repeated itself throughout history many times so I figured this would be another repeat. But I guess Obama's such a good talker that he'll be able to convince enough people to go his way anyways.

I still think the GOP needs some saving though.

[WilliamC]

Actually history never repeats itself.

People just have a tendency to interpret the present in terms of the past, that's all.

[Paul4Prez]

I was originally against the idea of independent/third party, but now I'm thinking it's our only hope.

It is our only hope. Unfortunately, Ron Paul has ruled it out, and the other possible third party contenders are even less viable than Nader.

[TheTyke]

It's not our only hope. :o How many 3rd party candidates have been elected, EVER? Even ones with insane amounts of money like Perot? :o

We have a better chance of McCain dropping out due to illness than we would winning as 3rd party, or convincing the freed delegates to vote for us. Seriously :)

[Leroy_Jenkems]

Nader will get less than 1% of the vote, and not have any effect on the election since Obama was going to trounce McCain anyway.

Yup.

[AmericasLastHope]

The Dark Horse Lincoln won the RNC on the Third Ballot in 1860.


Seward had been the favorite going into the convention, and led on the first two ballots. His lead soon melted away to the dark horse Lincoln, who captured the nomination on the third ballot. Lincoln's campaign manager, David Davis, was credited with playing a substantial role in the convention outcome.

In an alternative view, Lincoln got the nomination as the result of a local scheme to pack the Wigwam with Lincoln supporters using counterfeit tickets.[2] This early example of Chicago politics was led by Chicago Mayor John Wentworth.[3]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1860_Republican_National_Convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1860_Republican_National_Convention)

[TC95]

No offense, but I really wish people would quit daydreaming about a Ron Paul third party run. Not. Gonna. Happen.

Period.

[nodope0695]

I personnally have no interest in "saving" the GOP. I want the GOP to sink like the shipwreck it is. The GOP's days as a useful party are over, and beyond saving, IMHO. The party has been hihacked, and turned into something it was never meant to be. F**k the GOP...let it fizzle out, I say.

[nodope0695]

No offense, but I really wish people would quit daydreaming about a Ron Paul third party run. Not. Gonna. Happen.

Period.

+100,000,000

[christagious]

+100,000,000

Not to start anything on here, this is just for my personal curiosity, but you, in a nutshell, said F**k saving the GOP, it's a sinking ship that doesn't need saved, then you at the same time don't support a third party run, so I was just wondering what you're leaning towards then. Are you more of a Libertarian Party or Constitutionalist Party person? I'm just asking, hopefully you don't take it the wrong way.

[TheTyke]

The way the laws are designed though, if I understand, makes it much more difficult and costly for a 3rd party candidate to get the presidency. As Dr. Paul said, we should work to eliminate those laws, but at this time, you will only see a Democrat or Republican as president.

It's another control mechanism, and until we change all the laws, our only avenue is to take over one of the parties. The Republican Party just happens to be the most vulnerable to takeover at the moment.

[Pauls' Revere]

[QUOTE=TheTyke;1302223]It's not our only hope. :o How many 3rd party candidates have been elected, EVER? Even ones with insane amounts of money like Perot? :o

Abraham Lincoln was the last 3rd party to be elected. Actually I think 4 parties were running at that time back in those days they were not afraid of third parties and other political views as this 2 party system is. I believe we were more of a Republic than a democracy.
p.s. If the Republicans screw this up then the party desreves to die off.

[Liberté]

Ok, now with Nader running it's likely that the Dems are gonna be hurting in the General Election which could possibly mean that McCain will be the next president. This is very bad, although I hate Clinton and dislike Obama very much, I want to see one of them beat McCain. For this reason, the GOP is very cocky, it's overrun by neo-cons. The only way to knock the Republican party off of its high horse is to beat them, then maybe they'll go back to how the Republican party is supposed to be. Therefore, we need McCain to lose somehow, the only way to do this is to get a conservative independent candidate to take votes away from McCain, much like how Nader will do with either Clinton or Obama. Who is this candidate we need? None other than RON PAUL.
No matter what Ron Paul is the only way the GOP can be saved.

He needs to change his mind or else the Republican party will continue to be overrun by neocons.

The third party crap is nonsense. But anyone that wants a Clinton or Obama presidency is no friend of the Constitution... McCain may be bad, but Clinton or Obama would destroy the Constitution.

We need to build up the GOP, first local with Ward Chairs and State Reps, then Congressional, and finally then a President. Until then we have no choice, a vote for Dem, even not voting for McCain, is a vote against the Constitution... there is at least a chance McCain will appoint Conservative Justices, which is the most important thing the President can do it.

[clouds]

The third party crap is nonsense. But anyone that wants a Clinton or Obama presidency is no friend of the Constitution... McCain may be bad, but Clinton or Obama would destroy the Constitution.

We need to build up the GOP, first local with Ward Chairs and State Reps, then Congressional, and finally then a President. Until then we have no choice, a vote for Dem, even not voting for McCain, is a vote against the Constitution... there is at least a chance McCain will appoint Conservative Justices, which is the most important thing the President can do it.

ugh. i'd rather not take the lesser of two evils approach again.

[Peace&Freedom]

ugh. i'd rather not take the lesser of two evils approach again.

Amen. I think re-animation or the GOP corpse will prove to be a bigger daydream than any ideas about a Paul 3rd party run. The establishment running both big parties and the big media will most likely crush or co-opt the Paul insurgents, as they have done to other factions. And when will this Republican transformation take place, if it could? The 'work within the GOP' people cite the 30+ year electoral failure record of 3rd parties, while saying nothing about the 70+ year LEGISLATIVE failure record of Republicans in changing anything back in a constitutional direction.

Both failures are really due to the establishment suppression of alternative movements---so you have to replace that establishment in order to make progress. I say raid all the parties, making the Paul movement a 'virtual party' with a transformative footprint across the political spectrum, like the neocons do. Create our own media/network (breakthematrix, or the Ron Paul Revolution TV project) so we can reach regular voters who are not on the internet, like FOX does.

Are the save-GOP folks hawkiing for a 'revolution' that takes 70 more years to realize? I suggest 2012 is the furthest possible deadline to give the save-GOP plan (given a lot of us think this year might be the last free election). If Paul doesn't do an independent run this year, he or a successor Paulite MUST run 3rd party in 2012 when/if the establishment defeats us inside the Republican party.

[christagious]

The third party crap is nonsense. But anyone that wants a Clinton or Obama presidency is no friend of the Constitution... McCain may be bad, but Clinton or Obama would destroy the Constitution.

We need to build up the GOP, first local with Ward Chairs and State Reps, then Congressional, and finally then a President. Until then we have no choice, a vote for Dem, even not voting for McCain, is a vote against the Constitution... there is at least a chance McCain will appoint Conservative Justices, which is the most important thing the President can do it.

And McCain isn't going to destroy the Constitution? If you think McCain is a good choice than you're more brainwashed than you think. The only way to get good republicans back in the party is to lose. If McCain wins than the arrogance of the neocons will simply grow and grow. They need to be knocked off of their high horse.
Why nobody understands this is beyond me.

[Liberté]

And McCain isn't going to destroy the Constitution? If you think McCain is a good choice than you're more brainwashed than you think. The only way to get good republicans back in the party is to lose. If McCain wins than the arrogance of the neocons will simply grow and grow. They need to be knocked off of their high horse.
Why nobody understands this is beyond me.

See, another person that can't read.. re-read my post and shut up.

[Akus]

Ok, now with Nader running it's likely that the Dems are gonna be hurting in the General Election which could possibly mean that McCain will be the next president. This is very bad, although I hate Clinton and dislike Obama very much, I want to see one of them beat McCain. For this reason, the GOP is very cocky, it's overrun by neo-cons. The only way to knock the Republican party off of its high horse is to beat them, then maybe they'll go back to how the Republican party is supposed to be. Therefore, we need McCain to lose somehow, the only way to do this is to get a conservative independent candidate to take votes away from McCain, much like how Nader will do with either Clinton or Obama. Who is this candidate we need? None other than RON PAUL.
No matter what Ron Paul is the only way the GOP can be saved.

He needs to change his mind or else the Republican party will continue to be overrun by neocons.

The way you think is the way many undecideds think, too. They think that Nader will merely give the win to the worst pick, be it McCain or Obama. This is the third or so time he is running and I don't think people who think Ron Paul doesn't stand a chance will suddenly believe some one who lost last elections and elections before that stands any greater chance.

[christagious]

...

[seeker1]

It doesn't matter if Obama or McCain is the next president, we are taking back the country either way!

How do you figure this? :cool:

[xd9fan]

I'M sorry....I thought somebody already put a bullet in this dead horse.....