Threatened with towing because of Ron Paul message on car

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

As I was leaving work the other day, I got a flyer on my car telling me that only employees and customers of my workplace can park in the lot that I park in, and that if I park there for more than 2 hours, I will be towed. At first, I thought maybe they were having problem with other people leaving their cars in the lot and that this was a notice that all the cars had gotten. However, I looked around and saw that I was the only one who had this notice. I was really confused by this, so I informed my supervisor of it the next day, and he said he'd talk to the lot manager about it.

A couple of days later, a guy comes in on behalf of the lot manager and tells me that people have been complaining about the "Ron Paul '08" message I wrote with a window marker on the back, driver's-side window of my car. (I also have one Ron Paul 2008 bumper sticker on the back of my car, and that's it.) I'm informed that unless I remove the message from my window, I will be towed.

First of all, the original flyer said nothing about threatening to tow my car because of political messages. Second of all, I'm pretty sure that I can write whatever I want on my car, since it's my private property, and that they can't bar me from parking my car in the parking lot since I work there and I need to park there. (The nearest public parking area is a mile away.)

I work in Riverside, Ohio, and I'm having trouble finding info on local laws about marker-messages on car windows. I'm wondering if anyone can help me out finding this info.

Even if there is some type of ordinance against it, I've resolved not to erase the message on my car window. I'll fight to have the law (if there is one) removed, and I'll get the ACLU involved if I have to. But I'm just wondering where I legally stand right now with this.

[-lotus-]

I suggest you photograph EVERY car that parks in that same lot that has anything on it, a bumper sticker, a for sale sign, ANYTHING and present those to your manager and say that unless they are willing to tow all those cars as well, they cant touch yours. fight this shit tooth and nail

[acptulsa]

I'd start by calling their bluff and informing them in writing that you work on the premises and will charge whoever tows your car from there without your permission with grand theft auto. Make them examine their own legal position--and their own motives.

[WilliamC]

Simple enough to solve, just write the same thing on eveyone elses window ;)

Seriously, that's pretty bad that an employer would seek to censor a political slogan.

Find out how high up the chain of command this comes from, maybe above the lot manager is a manager with a brain.

[alaric]

man, there are traitors everywhere!

[All Seeing Eye]

I'd start by calling their bluff and informing them in writing that you work on the premises and will charge whoever tows your car from there without your permission with grand theft auto. Make them examine their own legal position--and their own motives.

Yep. I like this idea too. Use their own laws against them.

BTW - this cannot be legal unless there is some written document somwhere prohibiting you form displaying political messages on the permises. You can ask the owners about that I think, and I would call the local police force too. And maybe the media?

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

I suggest you photograph EVERY car that parks in that same lot that has anything on it, a bumper sticker, a for sale sign, ANYTHING and present those to your manager and say that unless they are willing to tow all those cars as well, they cant touch yours. fight this shit tooth and nail

I agree.

[robert4rp08]

Ask to see the parking lot rule that prohibits cars from having any bumper stickers or writing on the windows. The parking lot is private property and there's probably a set of "things" that you agree to by parking in the lot, e.g., parking lot company isn't responsible for damage to your car.

EDIT: Forgot to add, that there most likely is not such a rule. Then you'd easily get the chump off your back.

[pacelli]

Did you sign any statements about the parking lot when you were hired on? Is this lot a paid lot for which you have an occupational exemption?

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

Simple enough to solve, just write the same thing on eveyone elses window ;)

Seriously, that's pretty bad that an employer would seek to censor a political slogan.

Find out how high up the chain of command this comes from, maybe above the lot manager is a manager with a brain.

The lot manager doesn't employ me at all. He just oversees the physical building complex itself. My boss (the guy that I answer to) rents one of the buildings in the complex.

My boss (who is a Huckabee supporter btw ;)) has already said that if they tow my car, he'll have it towed back again and he'll charge the towing cost to the lot manager. Great boss. :D

But still, I'd like to know what the law is on this. I hope it wouldn't have to come to a showdown or anything.

[kathy88]

Aclu

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

Did you sign any statements about the parking lot when you were hired on?

Nope.

[kathy88]

And call the local media and show them the letter.

[pacelli]

But still, I'd like to know what the law is on this. I hope it wouldn't have to come to a showdown or anything.

In which city & state is this parking lot located?

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

In which city & state is this parking lot located?

As said earlier: Riverside, OH.

[Mani]

I think you might have a strong case, unless they pull something out that says the lot is private property and their is some written policy against political messages.

However, I've never heard of such a thing, and it's ABSOLUTELY absurd they want to tow your car because PEOPLE COMPLAINED.

Do we really live in a society where if you don't agree with the majority you will be punished for your view point?????

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

Do we really live in a society where if you don't agree with the majority you will be punished for your view point?????

....Yeah.

[-lotus-]

I think you might have a strong case, unless they pull something out that says the lot is private property and their is some written policy against political messages.

However, I've never heard of such a thing, and it's ABSOLUTELY absurd they want to tow your car because PEOPLE COMPLAINED.

Do we really live in a society where if you don't agree with the majority you will be punished for your view point?????

welcome to democracy, where the majority wins, the minority loses. dont worry, democracies only tend to last around 200 years, followed by a period of dictatorship. :(

[Laughingcow]

Aclu

Not a fan of the Aclu, but they can help. Ditto...

[MusoSpuso]

Who owns the property? Is it private or government property?

If it is private property, they can't tell you what you can or cannot put on your car but they can tell you what you can and cannot park on their property.

If it's government property you'll have to check the laws and ordinances of the city to see if you are actually violating any law. If not, then say so. If so, then work to change the law.

Bottom line, it comes down to property and ownership. It is your car, but it is not your lot.

I certainly don't agree with these idiots but you have to check all the facts to know how to proceed.

[Soccrmastr]

get a lawyer yup

[pacelli]

Here's a link to codified ordinances in Riverside, OH. I see nothing about prohibitions of signs on vehicles but only just started looking for it.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:77bHTuAQ_88J:www.riverside.oh.us/pdfs/codified_ordinances/A%2520-%2520Preliminary.pdf+Riverside,+OH+and+sign+ordnan ce+and+motor+vehicles&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

[PhantomSTi]

welcome to democracy, where the majority wins, the minority loses. dont worry, democracies only tend to last around 200 years, followed by a period of dictatorship. :(

That's okay, because we are supposed to be a republic.

[pacelli]

933.10 ERECTING AND ATTACHING SIGNS.
No person in a park shall erect a sign or attach a sign to property owned or controlled by
the City; nor shall any person display any placard, notice, advertisement, circular, banner, or
statement of any kind, except in areas designated by the Director, other than a permanent sign on
a vehicle parked in a designated parking area.
(Ord. 97-0-91. Passed 3-20-97.)

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:RQab6Vn53Y0J:www.riverside.oh.us/pdfs/codified_ordinances/I%2520-%2520SUPS.pdf+Riverside,+OH+and+sign+ordinance+and +motor+vehicles&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

[ronpaulhawaii]

I'd ask the manager what he was so worried about? I mean, he can't:rolleyes: win anyway... :p

[Mani]

Are bumper stickers a first amendment right?

This article digs a little bit, and says YES, but it depends on your state:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Are-Bumper-Stickers-A-First-Amendment-Right?&id=265040

[Mani]

Here's a lady who was ticketed for BUSHIT bumper sticker.

The ACLU is going to court with her because the state supreme court says it's "unconstitutional" to prohibit free speech.

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/032406/news_20060324055.shtml

[Nailhead]

"Ron Paul '08" That is so vulgar! The real problem here is that people even complained over something like that. I wonder if the same people would have complained if it was a message supporting their candidate.

[angelatc]

A couple of days later, a guy comes in on behalf of the lot manager and tells me that people have been complaining about the "Ron Paul '08" message I wrote with a window marker on the back, driver's-side window of my car. (I also have one Ron Paul 2008 bumper sticker on the back of my car, and that's it.) I'm informed that unless I remove the message from my window, I will be towed.



If they have an agreement with your boss to allow you to park there, then I'd have your boss call the lot owner and complain about the lot manager.

[Cleaner44]

And call the local media and show them the letter.

Definetly call the media and report the harassment. Make a big stink about it. Embarss the hell out of the property management or whoever. Say things like "I would expect this in the Soviet Union but not here in America".

Threaten to sue the property manager or whoever is threatening to have your car towed. Get the names of the people involved and let them see that you are wring all of this down. Even video tape him telling you this.

If you have not yet had your primary, tie this to election intimidation.

Tape some info inside your window proving that you working at the location so any tow truck driver will see that you do in fact belong there.

Hit back hard on this bully and watch them scramble.

[acptulsa]

I'd be tempted to go to the media, too, just to get some publicity. I think it would be good to get us some sympathy. However, since your boss is backing you on this thing and you like him, I'd check with him first. Wouldn't hurt. If your boss is just an employee, you don't want to pull down heat on him over the company's lease.

[phoenixzorn]

933.10 ERECTING AND ATTACHING SIGNS.
No person in a park shall erect a sign or attach a sign to property owned or controlled by
the City; nor shall any person display any placard, notice, advertisement, circular, banner, or
statement of any kind, except in areas designated by the Director, other than a permanent sign on
a vehicle parked in a designated parking area.
(Ord. 97-0-91. Passed 3-20-97.)
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:RQab6Vn53Y0J:www.riverside.oh.us/pdfs/codified_ordinances/I%2520-%2520SUPS.pdf+Riverside,+OH+and+sign+ordinance+and +motor+vehicles&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

So you're saying.... they're saying... this only applies to lots owned or controlled by the city, and private lots, like this one, should follow their own rules that should be in a book accessible to anyone who parks there.

It also says, a permanent sign on a vehicle in a parking lot - a city lot - is legal, so I'd just go get a vinyl sticker made, and put it on in place of the window marker, then you are exempt from that law.

[Mani]

To help us out with this issue, could you please take a picture of the message and post it here so we know what it says?

Is it really just a RonPaul 08 bumper sticker, or are you saying something anti-bush/hilary beyond just the bumper sticker???

[acptulsa]

"Ron Paul '08" That is so vulgar! The real problem here is that people even complained over something like that. I wonder if the same people would have complained if it was a message supporting their candidate.

Something tells me no one complained. I think what we have here is a little NAZI trying to clean up his little lot and in serious need of a civics lesson...

[MusoSpuso]

nor shall any person display any placard, notice, advertisement, circular, banner, or
statement of any kind, except in areas designated by the Director

This is the relevant bit here. No signs allowed. Sucks, but it's law. No doubt the property management is cherry picking this issue but still...

Also, has it been confirmed that this is government property and not private property?

[kathy88]

If that is the case, any vehicle with a sticker on it must go, correct?

[Broadlighter]

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.



I'd say you have a definite case. Reign down everything and anything you can on this bully. My take is, the moment you show any strength in your hand, he'll back off. He probably wants to see if he can intimidate you.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Something tells me no one complained.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Even if one or two people complained, and I were responsible for a parking lot somehow, I can't imagine I'd be listening to the complainers and making my job harder over it. The typical response would be "If you don't like it, take it up with them." At least as this was presented, that would be my response as well as the response of most people who work jobs like that.

More likely, for this situation to occur, it would be that person's boss complaining about it.

[jsu718]

They attack you because of your freedom.