ronpaul-grassroots-announce@yahoogroups.com

[danda]

From: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ronpaul-grassroots-announce/message/2

Preface, I am starting this list in response to two things:

1) As the creator of the Online Rally website
(rally.ronpaulplanet.org ) I have wanted several times to contact all
the Meetup groups to ask them upload photos in support of Dr. Paul.
With 30,000+ members, it should be a cinch to get 5000 or so photos
uploaded, right? Wrong. It is nearly impossible to contact all the
meetup groups. Meetup requires that you contact each group
individually through an online form, and you can only do 25 in a day.
A woman on the ronpaulforums tried to contact them all one day, and
spent 12 hours doing so. It was a nightmare. Anyway, I have given
thought and energy to this several times, and I figure there must be a
better way.

2) A thread was started today on the RonPaulForums.com that discusses
this very issue, and the fact that we are wasting valuable resources
and energy in our movement, because we are not able to communicate
fast enough and effectively enough to those would be of help. That
thread is here:
http://ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=12186

What follows is my latest post to that thread, which introduces this
ronpaul-grassroots-announce list:

--------------

Guys, this thread is 14 pages long, with no action.

In my opinion, all we need is a simple mailing list that meetup.com
leaders can subscribe to. So I created one at yahoo groups. Y'all are
free to promote it and use it or ignore it and do something else, or
ignore it and do nothing.

Here's the info:

Group name: ronpaul-grassroots-announce
Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ronpaul-grassroots-announce/
Group email: ronpaul-grassroots-announce@yahoogroups.com

Description:

This is a low volume, moderated list intended to disseminate important
announcements to meetup group leaders, and anyone else interested in
grassroots efforts and "action on the ground".

Meetup.com has proven itself ineffective for distributing important
announcements to the 600+ meetup groups. Indeed Meetup.com actively
prohibits any member from contacting more than 25 groups in one day,
and these must be done individually. It is hoped that leaders or
members from each of those groups will join this list and then pass
the information on to the list for each respective group, if relevant.

It is vital that we improve our communications channels if we hope to
organize effectively in support of Dr. Paul.

Announcements to this list will be approved by the moderators in a
timely fashion. For those looking for Ron Paul discussion, we
recommend ronpaulforums.com. If you would like to become a moderator,
please contact me (danda) and introduce yourself, your reasons, and
your availability.


If you like the idea and want to promote it, I suggest that you start by:

1) blogging about it and encouraging meetup folks especial leaders to
join.

2) emailing your own meetup groups.

3) Posting in other groups and forums.

4) Broadcasting it on RonPaulRadio.com

5) Thinking of your own creative way to get the word out.

regards,

Dan Libby

[DjLoTi]

Can you point out that it's RonPaulradio.com ? There's huge confusion about us and that guy who's doing his 1 hour show

[danda]

Can you point out that it's RonPaulradio.com ? There's huge confusion about us and that guy who's doing his 1 hour show

Done. (above). Too late for the yahoo list though, as you can't edit after sending.

[DjLoTi]

If it's on a yahoo groups board, you can c/p, delete, repost and edit.

They're all going to think you're talking about the other guy. I'm working on fixing that, and I'll get a message out to all the meetup groups probably by Thursday.

[danda]

...and I'll get a message out to all the meetup groups probably by Thursday.

how exactly? :)

[Lord Xar]

can you get on it IF you are not a leader?

[danda]

can you get on it IF you are not a leader?

absolutely.

---
This is a low volume, moderated list intended to disseminate important
announcements to meetup group leaders, and anyone else interested in
grassroots efforts and "action on the ground"
---

[DjLoTi]

how exactly? :)

I have connections ;)

[danda]

I have connections ;)

Well then please put in a plug for the new anounce list and the online rally while you're at it.

In my view, the meetup groups are still a largely untapped resource. We need to be able to mobilize much faster when necessary.

[LibertyEagle]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[Nickel]

Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ronpau...roots-announce


This link does work for me. It literally puts this part in the URL: ronpau...roots-announce

which should be: ronpaul-grassroots-announce

Otherwise, looks like it's up to 4 members!

[Keith]

Thanks for doing this. A well moderated Yahoo Group was a great solution.

[scrosnoe]

joined

[danda]

This link does work for me. It literally puts this part in the URL: ronpau...roots-announce

which should be: ronpaul-grassroots-announce

Otherwise, looks like it's up to 4 members!

Fixed. thanks.

Again, this list will only be a success if people promote it enough, right now, to gather momentum and membership. I am right now sending out an email to all the Online Rally members about it.

Please reply with what YOU are doing: blogging, sending a note to your meetup group, etc.

If this list dies because no one joined, then fine. So be it. But I don't want to see any more threads about "why can't we contact meetup leaders" and "we need better grassroots communications channels" unless we've all given it a real effort to promote this.

[danda]

Please reply with what YOU are doing: blogging, sending a note to your meetup group, etc.


..... The sound of silence .....

[jblosser]

<devil's advocate>
No offense but this at least the 4th national get-all-the-meetup-organizers list I've seen. I'm well aware the need is real, but if organizers aren't responding to the other efforts, why should I (as an organizer) keep joining every effort that pops up? At some point I have to deal with my own signal-to-noise in my mailbox just so I can keep up with the local activism.
</devil's advocate>

[danda]

<devil's advocate>
No offense but this at least the 4th national get-all-the-meetup-organizers list I've seen. I'm well aware the need is real, but if organizers aren't responding to the other efforts, why should I (as an organizer) keep joining every effort that pops up? At some point I have to deal with my own signal-to-noise in my mailbox just so I can keep up with the local activism.
</devil's advocate>

I do take offense. What are you doing to solve the problem?

Too lazy too join a new list? fine. That's your deal. But do you have anything *constructive* to add?

Please point me towards a list that I can:

a) Subscribe to, to learn about important grassroots events.

b) Post announcements to about grassroots events, and that actually reaches 100+ meetup groups.

If you know of such a list, please don't keep it to yourself.

I've no great desire to re-invent the wheel, or to promote this thing. I'd much rather use something that is already working effectively.

waiting....





meanwhile, why hasn't someone with access to Daily Paul posted about this on there? That would get a bunch of people signed up quickly, I think.

Honestly folks, if we can't even get 600+ people subscribed to a grassroots announcements list, I begin to seriously question our collective committment to this cause.

Yesterday, people posted over 14 pages worth of comments about how we need a better way to communicate announcements. So I go and create a list. So far 8 people have joined -- that's less than the number of people posting about it yesterday.

Once again, if you have a better mechanism, don't hold back. Throw it out here. Otherwise, what is everyone waiting for exactly?

[jblosser]

I do take offense. What are you doing to solve the problem?

I'm not sure the problem *can* be solved. Meetup has the people that need to be reached by the short hairs and any solution has to have the organizers' cooperation. I'm saying others have tried and if the organizers won't come along, for whatever reason, it's time to stop spinning wheels and just get it done where we can.


Too lazy too join a new list? fine. That's your deal. But do you have anything *constructive* to add?

I don't think I used the word "lazy". I run a few DFW meetups, coordinate with the others, and keep communication going between the meetups here and the national campaign staff. I go through a hundred or so Ron Paul emails a day. At some point I have to stop subscribing to every national effort or I can't keep up with the local stuff, and what problem does that solve? And I'm one of the ones who is very willing to get hundreds of mails a day and keep up, there are a lot of organizers who have their own meetup preferences set to no email!



Please point me towards a list that I can:

a) Subscribe to, to learn about important grassroots events.

Meetup 560 and 511 are both there and trying to do this. I have seen others go by but don't remember the details. I know there has been at least one other yahoo group. Those groups all have some of their own baggage, but that's part of the problem; the people that have signed up for those expecting productive conversation and not sure of what they found are now once-bitten, twice-shy about joining other groups.



b) Post announcements to about grassroots events, and that actually reaches 100+ meetup groups.


Well, there's the rub. For any group to have reach, the organizers have to go sign up. If they aren't signing up to what's there now, how will creating another group and asking them to sign up change this?

Again, I know the problem is there. But it's not because a group doesn't exist, and creating more groups and asking the organizers to join them appears to be spinning wheels right now. If it's really going to be solved, it needs another approach. I don't know what that is, or I'd already have done it myself. Instead I'm spending my time where I know I *can* get things done.

I wish you the best of luck, though.

[danda]

Meetup 560 and 511 are both there and trying to do this. I have seen others go by but don't remember the details. I know there has been at least one other yahoo group. Those groups all have some of their own baggage, but that's part of the problem; the people that have signed up for those expecting productive conversation and not sure of what they found are now once-bitten, twice-shy about joining other groups.

Okay, that's good information about the meetups 560 and 511. I'll check them out. thx.

I want to stress however that this list is different from the other Yahoo Groups and efforts I have seen. It is *not* for discussion. It is *only* for important announcements. It is low traffic. That is what I meant by "lazy" as well. Because this list will likely be adding 1 email per day to your inbox, if that. So the real cost of joining is really just the actual effort of.... joining, which is a one time 5 minute action.

But I do apologize for my use of that word.



Well, there's the rub. For any group to have reach, the organizers have to go sign up. If they aren't signing up to what's there now, how will creating another group and asking them to sign up change this?


Agreed. But I want to stress that this list is NOT only for leaders/organizers. It is for anyone that would like to receive grassroots announcements.

Yes, there is a chicken/egg problem to getting the meetup loaders signed up. But I may have a way around that. below.



If it's really going to be solved, it needs another approach. I don't know what that is, or I'd already have done it myself. Instead I'm spending my time where I know I *can* get things done.

Fair enough. Well, I do know of another potential way to reach organizers. It involves:

a) Writing a script that can POST to the meetup web form. ( this is trickier than it sounds, but I think I am close to having something working. )

b) Creating multiple accounts, so that the script can do 25 with one account, then 25 with another, and so on.

Then, when something truly important comes along, we can run this tool. Certainly, I would want to run it to inform the meetup organizers of this list.

But even if I do get this working, it still reaches only the organizers, who will likely ignore 90% of the traffic.

That's why I think a general announce list is still a good and necessary thing, as anyone can join it and receive the news unfiltered.

All that said, it's up to individuals to join and to submit announcements. If no one wants to use it, then fine.

[jblosser]

a) Writing a script that can POST to the meetup web form. ( this is trickier than it sounds, but I think I am close to having something working. )


I don't know if you're a windows or unix person, but curl(1) is your friend.



b) Creating multiple accounts, so that the script can do 25 with one account, then 25 with another, and so on.


With all their anti-spam stuff, I would not be surprised if meetup limits the number of account creations from a given IP in a given range of time.

[CountryB4Party]

.

I urge everyone to reconsider using yet another Yahoo group. Yahoo's communication and collaboration format is completely limited and inefficient.

AGAIN, a secure tool is already in place with real time chat, voice chat, conference calls, databases, calendaring, private messaging, messaging to groups, separate forums for each Meet Up by region, state and city if anyone needs them.

http://ronpaulnetwork.info/forum/

May I please ask why you are stepping backwards to work with a tool that is so very limiting and inefficient when a more robust and expandable tool is available?

Yours in Liberty,
Dena Turner

.

[danda]

Very simply:

1) We need a way to effectively reach out to the meetup groups (and anyone else interested!) when important projects get underway. This forum is great, but not everyone spends their time here.

2) Email is generally considered more effective at reaching people than *any* forum system. That is because email is passive ( the mail comes to you ), while forums are active ( you must go to the forums ).

3) High Signal to Noise ratio. This email list I have created is *only* for important announcements. Related discussion can take place wherever the poster specifies, here on these forums, in your forums, on meetup.com, or anywhere else.

4) No dilution. In a forum system, announcements get spread between various threads. Not so on this list.

5) Lots of people already have yahoo accounts. Very low barrier to entry. Also, yahoo does the backups, etc, and maintains their mail servers properly so the mail is less likely to be caught in spam filters than if I install something like GNU Mailman myself.

6) Signups. People are generally more likely to sign up for a list with low traffic announcements than noisy discussions. So if we want to attract and reach a larger number of people, this is a good way to go.

As stated previously, I saw an unmet need. People on this very forum were complaining, so I took action. So far 22 people have agreed with me today and signed up for the list.

If you want to promote your own forum or alternative mechanism, go for it! But preferably in your own thread.

[danda]

I don't know if you're a windows or unix person, but curl(1) is your friend.

With all their anti-spam stuff, I would not be surprised if meetup limits the number of account creations from a given IP in a given range of time.

only one way to find out.

[danda]

89 signups for the grassroots-announce mailing list so far, and more keep coming in.

So for anyone with a project you are trying to promote nationally, here's a growing audience.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ronpaul-grassroots-announce/

[Keith]

89 signups for the grassroots-announce mailing list so far, and more keep coming in.

So for anyone with a project you are trying to promote nationally, here's a growing audience.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ronpaul-grassroots-announce/

It is not national, but we are having a straw poll in Alabama this Saturday that could use some promotion. I would not want to just assume that all Ron Paul supporters in Alabama know about it. Alabama has one of the early primaries next year so a good performance in this straw poll would go a long way. Is this the kind of thing that you would announce via this Yahoo group or are you just looking for truly national things?

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20070816/LATEST/70816010

[danda]

I would say that qualifies.

In general, if it is something where you are looking for help from outside your local meetup group, then the grassroots-announce list would be a good place to post your announcement.

If the list gets really big and high volume ( 10+ announcements per day ) then we may have to restrict it to more "national" issues, but until that happens, go for it.


It is not national, but we are having a straw poll in Alabama this Saturday that could use some promotion. I would not want to just assume that all Ron Paul supporters in Alabama know about it. Alabama has one of the early primaries next year so a good performance in this straw poll would go a long way. Is this the kind of thing that you would announce via this Yahoo group or are you just looking for truly national things?

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20070816/LATEST/70816010

[Keith]

I would say that qualifies.

Great. I just posted an announcement to the list. I guess it is waiting for moderator approval. Thanks.

[Suzu]

Very simply:
1) We need a way to effectively reach out to the meetup groups (and anyone else interested!) when important projects get underway. This forum is great, but noteveryone spends their time here.

This is why we have targeted email capability on the RPVN forum. Meetup Organizers can send important announcements to any number of groups - whole states, whole regions, or everywhere if need be - rather than posting on the forum, or in addition to doing that. The capacity to limit emailing to specific groups also helps cut down on excess reading for busy folks.


2) Email is generally considered more effective at reaching people than *any* forum system. That is because email is passive ( the mail comes to you ), while forums are active ( you must go to the forums ).

Not in this case. Announcements can be sent by email directly, even without being posted on a forum.


3) High Signal to Noise ratio. This email list I have created is *only* for important announcements. Related discussion can take place wherever the poster specifies, here on these forums, in your forums, on meetup.com, or anywhere else.
4) No dilution. In a forum system, announcements get spread between various threads. Not so on this list.

Not necessarily. It depends on how a forum is organized. Important announcements may not be important to everyone in the Ron Paul support effort, so they can be posted where they belong, and be tagged as important there.


5) Lots of people already have yahoo accounts. Very low barrier to entry. Also, yahoo does the backups, etc, and maintains their mail servers properly so the mail is less likely to be caught in spam filters than if I install something like GNU Mailman myself.

A Yahoo account is not required to join a Yahoo email list. Why use GNU unless you are compiling email addresses to send outside of Yahoo?


As stated previously, I saw an unmet need. People on this very forum were complaining, so I took action. So far 22 people have agreed with me today and signed up for the list.

If you want to promote your own forum or alternative mechanism, go for it! But preferably in your own thread.

I am responding to your points not for the purpose of promoting a forum but rather to point out the holes in your arguments. I hope you do get all the meetup organizers to sign up, and I hope you will encourage them to check out the functionality of the RPVN forum as well.