What's to hate about communism?

[constitutional]

Please enlighten me.

Is it true that Communism gives everyone in the society equal representation? So whats wrong with communism? (I'm looking for ammo against communism)

[LibertiORDeth]

Equal pay no matter what your job or how hard you work leads to lack of incentive to work, which leads to lower productivity, which leads to a decrease in national GDP, which leads to a lower standard of living, and eventually, poverty. 'Nuff said.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Is it true that Communism gives everyone in the society equal representation?

Not sure. See any real life examples anywhere?

[Jason726]

How about a loss of your freedoms. Do you like an a-hole boss telling you what to do? Well imagine an a-hole government telling you what to do with every little aspect of your life.

[NoxTwilight]

Regardless of what the "ideals" of communism are - the fact that people risked their lives to escape East Germany and Russia etc. etc. should give you enough information to make a judgment on how "equal" people were/are. What good is equal if all it gives you is hopelessness and sorrow and destitution?

[rpfreedom08]

lol. good lord what a question. If you don't know whats wrong with Communism then you haven't studied history enough.

[Laughingcow]

Please enlighten me.

Is it true that Communism gives everyone in the society equal representation? So whats wrong with communism? (I'm looking for ammo against communism)

Ask Hillary or Obama, they support it. lol

Who is in control, whover it is, controls everything. People will get lazy because they will have no motivation to accel, then the government will start having to crack the whip to make them work. You are set up for a bland, no frills life, no freedom to go above and beyond. Communism can only work if absolutely no-one had even the slightest speck of greed or personal aspirations.

[rpfreedom08]

If you guys look through history you will see that democracy is just a transitional type of government and always leads to total control of the government, anarchy etc.. etc.. This global move to democracy is just a global movement to total government.

[LT for the Truth]

Do you like an a-hole boss telling you what to do? Well imagine an a-hole government telling you what to do with every little aspect of your life.

Great post, After the day I've had, I needed a laugh.:)

[pacelli]

One of my family members grew up in a communist country.

Neighbors reporting you to the government for hanging your laundry, other neighbors disappearing in the middle of the night to never be heard from again, soldiers staying in your home unannounced and taking their liberties with your property and your family, waiting 2 hours in line every morning for a bucket of milk and a loaf of bread, and the list goes on and on.

[WilliamC]

Please enlighten me.

Is it true that Communism gives everyone in the society equal representation? So whats wrong with communism? (I'm looking for ammo against communism)

Well so long as it's voluntarily agreed upon by each and every individual participating in it I guess nothing would be wrong with it.

Sort of like the John Lennon song Imagine.

It's just that when someone doesn't want to join the collective and wants to be an individual then most communists seem all to ready to resort to violence to suppress them.

But that's true of other forms of non-voluntary collectivism as well.

[Truth Warrior]

"From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs."

Now, guess who gets to identify and establish "ability" and "needs".

[Banana]

Another problem is that communism ask you to put complete trust and faith into the government to care for you. This is analogous to putting all eggs in one basket. You then only need one bad man to run away with it and everyone is fucked.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

"If one understands that socialism is not a share-the-wealth program, but is in reality a method to consolidate and control the wealth, then the seeming paradox of super-rich men promoting socialism becomes no paradox at all. Instead, it becomes logical, even the perfect tool of power-seeking megalomaniacs. Communism, or more accurately, socialism, is not a movement of the downtrodden masses, but of the economic elite." - Gary Allen

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

Under a Republican form of government, the Constitution prevents the government from violating our rights. Under communism, rights are granted by the government, and can be taken away at anytime and there isn't shit you can do about it.

[Tdcci]

Not sure. See any real life examples anywhere?

China, Cuba, North Korea, Laos, Vietnam

Though most of them are transitioning to socialism (or in China's case, Capitalism)

[Vancouverite90210]

Are you talking about real communism as an ideology or many of the past dictatorial forms of it where corrupt leaders, mad for power (No I'm not talking about Bush here at the moment) twist things and deprive people of liberties and persecute them for their beliefs? There are better examples of where communism has worked better such as Cuba and China but I think in reality socialism such as in Canada, France, Australia, Sweden, UK and dozens of other countries is a better compromise. We all have to live on this planet together and eradicating the poor as is the neocon goal is not the answer. The American system of capitalism is a cold cruel heartless system that only cares about the rich and success. Should those less successful in America be killed off Stalin style?

[Tdcci]

Are you talking about real communism as an ideology or many of the past dictatorial forms of it where corrupt leaders, mad for power (No I'm not talking about Bush here at the moment) twist things and deprive people of liberties and persecute them for their beliefs?

You mean religion? Religious fundamentalism is a dangerous force that can eclipse the power of the state if gone unchecked, we've seen this manifest in Islamic terrorism recently. Christian fundamentalism in the United States got G.W. Bush elected, also. Dictators are usually ones to fight corruption, because they can't have people working to serve their own interests, not the state's.

[DealzOnWheelz]

Are you talking about real communism as an ideology or many of the past dictatorial forms of it where corrupt leaders, mad for power (No I'm not talking about Bush here at the moment) twist things and deprive people of liberties and persecute them for their beliefs? There are better examples of where communism has worked better such as Cuba and China but I think in reality socialism such as in Canada, France, Australia, Sweden, UK and dozens of other countries is a better compromise. We all have to live on this planet together and eradicating the poor as is the neocon goal is not the answer. The American system of capitalism is a cold cruel heartless system that only cares about the rich and success. Should those less successful in America be killed off Stalin style?

Communism is tolerated in CHina and cuba it doesn't work well


And the american form of capitalism under the constitution is the best as long as the government isn't involved.

What is cruel about earning what you get?? What makes it look heartless is the government intervention in the free market because it favors the wealthy because those are the ones lobbying the government to help them.

Socialism does not work. Like in CANADA. You must make doctor appts months in advance and when you need some MAJOR surgery most canadians come to the states for it.

The system that america runs under currently isn't working the way it should strictly because of government intervention not because it is a flawed system.

[Roxi]

I was a big fan of communism my whole life, until i participated in The Real World: New Hampshire, AKA OLFD

then i found out why communism doesn't work :)

[clouds]

I am getting this info from a girl from serbia, but from what I understand it's another good example of communism failing. I think it's socialist now, and she says it is worse now than it was before. She said paying bills and such is impossible because the people realize they get paid the same amount no matter how much work they actually do.

[theseus51]

It actually works in theory. If everyone in a society works as hard as possible, and only takes what they need, the society will be great. Of course this only works on the idea that the people have no self desire. They don't care to "own" anything, or to be rich. That they are content to work hard, for other people, and not ask anything in return for extra work. Once you find a society like that, you will see Communism flourish. Until then, Communism will fail.

[bunklocoempire]

Vancouverite90210 wrote :
The American system of capitalism is a cold cruel heartless system that only cares about the rich and success.

Are you kidding me? Do you know what website your on?

DealzOnWheelz nailed it:
The system that america runs under currently isn't working the way it should strictly because of government intervention not because it is a flawed system.

And I will add our Constitution and Bill of Rights with a truly free market levels the playing field for ALL. This is what we're trying to restore. As soon as the fruits of my labors go to a government it is lost to me. A government does not, nor will ever, have

the accountability and responsibility I do. Cold cruel and heartless is letting the government take care of your fellow man instead of you doing it directly or through private organizations. It's called responsibility. But I'm sure it soothes peoples minds to

make believe their government is doing it for them.

.....................................Make it simple, do you want to be responsible or not?.............Do you want freedom or not?...................Do you want to help your fellow man or not?......

Something to ponder, good luck.

Bunkloco

[BillyDkid]

It doesn't work. It never has and it never will. In terms of philosophy it is corrupt and collectivist. It is completely anathema to anyone who is remotely an individualist. It is anti-freedom. It is about central control - which simply can never work. Communism, facism, socialism - all collectivism is anti -individual and anti-liberty. If self ownership is the bedrock on which liberty stands you have to hate all collectivism. It is about state ownership or collective ownership of the individual.

You know I hear all sorts of criticizm of libertarianism - that it's a fantasy and idealistic and so on, which is frankly the opposite of true. I would just once see one society try libertarianism and a genuine free market and see what happens. Then if it fails - like virtually every other approach has been shown to fail - then the people who dismiss and hate libertarians would have some evidence for their predjudice. People who hate libertarianism either don't understand it or they actually hate freedom.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

China, Cuba, North Korea, Laos, Vietnam

Though most of them are transitioning to socialism (or in China's case, Capitalism)

You're offering those as examples of communism giving everyone in the society equal representation? Just making sure, since that was the question you replied to.

[New Governor Of Alaska]

Please enlighten me.

Is it true that Communism gives everyone in the society equal representation? So whats wrong with communism? (I'm looking for ammo against communism)

TheAmistad, I agree with you - the idea is good. But this idea is for enimals and not humans.

The problem with Communism is that it really does make everyone equal. In fact, it forces everyone to be equal. It does not allow you to move ahead.

Under Communism everything is controlled by a small group of people. That group controlls education, money.... everything.
Under Communist system you are not allowed to make good money even if you can. If you make more than the everyone else around you then the state will take 90% of your earnings TO MAKE EVERYONE EQUAL.

Why is it possible for them to do it? It is because there is no private property under Communist system.

Let me say it again - there is no private property under Communist system.

You cannot own a business. Private property is illegal in Communist society. The state owns everything and the state decides what to do with all your money.
Also the state decides what you should learn in school and what books to be published and sold in the book stores and what Internet site should be allowed to exist.

Communism is a prison for human mind and spirit. It creates sub-human creatures who are afraid to think.

[Tdcci]

You're offering those as examples of communism giving everyone in the society equal representation? Just making sure, since that was the question you replied to.

Those are countries that have that as their stated goals, being Communist states. They are not perfect, just as America is not a perfect Capitalist state, as Sweden is not a perfect Socialist state.

[aravoth]

Those are countries that have that as their stated goals, being Communist states. They are not perfect

Ain't that the understatement of the decade.

[Original_Intent]

Top seven things wrong with Communism

1. Compels citizens to do what is deemed "right" by the party leadership.
2. Citizens are expected to contribute everything to society, and only take back what they need. Party leadership determines what they need.
3. Communism/Marxism sells itself as a classless society, but in truth it just eliminates the middle class, leaving those in power, the wealthy, and the vast majority who are kept in abject poverty.
4. The government takes responsibility of educating and raising children away from the parents.
5. Opposing viewpoints are silenced.
6. No freedom of religion.
7. Individual human life is not valued, the needs of the collective (again, read this as the desires of party leadership) trump the desires of lowly individuals.

[Tdcci]

Original_Intent, those are not problems with communism, but the specific sects and implementations of the 20th century.

[aravoth]

Original_Intent, those are not problems with communism, but the specific sects and implementations of the 20th century.

:rolleyes: here we go.

[Tdcci]

:rolleyes: here we go.

I considered commenting on number 6 on his list but decided against it because you were watching the thread :)

[aravoth]

I considered commenting on number 6 on his list but decided against it because you were watching the thread :)

I know, I could feel your itchy fingers daring you to challenge religious freedom.

[TurtleBurger]

Even if people were perfectly selfless, communism would still be a bad idea. A communist system does not provide people with the ability to judge the relative values of goods.
For example, imagine a person is trying to choose to become a doctor or a garbage collector (assuming he is able to do both). In a capitalist system, this choice is easy: you'd make $5/hr as a garbage man, or $500,000/yr as a doctor; people will choose the higher paying job. In a "perfect communist" system, where everyone is selfless, this decision would not be so easy. The selfless person would not want his fellow man to suffer illness, but he would also not want his fellow man to live in huge piles of garbage. With no measuring stick to tell him which career is more valuable, he may choose the garbage collecting job and waste his innate medical skills. In the real world case where people are not selfless, the problem is obviously much worse: people will do the minimal required work and claim the maximum allowed benefit. Communism cause huge waste by applying resources to uses other than their most valuable use, and no matter how wonderful a government you have controlling it, it is doomed to economic failure and misery for its people.

[danberkeley]

It actually works in theory. If everyone in a society works as hard as possible, and only takes what they need, the society will be great. Of course this only works on the idea that the people have no self desire. They don't care to "own" anything, or to be rich. That they are content to work hard, for other people, and not ask anything in return for extra work. Once you find a society like that, you will see Communism flourish. Until then, Communism will fail.

The problem with this is that the government owns everything. That means that
who ever controls the government owns everything. Historically, every communist
leader has gain power via the barrel of a gun (and sometimes with subsidies by the USA).

But getting back to the government owning everything, central planning does not
work with a large population that is as diverse the animals in the Amazon rainforest.
The inefficiancies of the federal government during Katrina, Pearl Hatrbor, and 9/11
prove this point. Yet, when entire towns in the Midwest were burried in snow, the
locals were able to survive without the help of the federal government.

Don't get me started on the liberty issue.

[Joe3113]

Communism is slavery. Even if everybody agreed to it, what if someone changed their mind? They would be stuck. On the other hand, if everybody has their liberty, the can voluntarily enter into a socialist agreement (like insurance without a company making profit). That way, if someone changed their mind, they are free to leave.

[dementedme]

whats so great about communism?

why hasnt every country in the world tried to adopt it in some form?

why have communist nations started moving towards a democratic form of government?

[Lou337]

NewGovernorofAlaska is right...

Property rights are a huge pillar of a republic. When you lose your property under communism or any other system that takes it away from you and gives it to the state, you essentially lose your rights to everything else.

If the state owns your home, you're not safe from their influence anywhere.

[Broadlighter]

I think this article by G. Edward Griffin explains it very well:

The Future Is Calling, Part I - The Chasm (http://www.freedomforceinternational.org/pdf/futurecalling1.pdf)

The problem is not Communism per se. Communism is a form of collectivism.

When you break it down, all forms of collectivism derive their power from individuals who exert power and influence over other individuals.

Read pages 6 & 7 in the above document. They pretty well define the ethic of collectivism versus individualism.