Runoff election for a free state - round 2

[Cleaner44]

Let's move onto round 2 of "where should liberty lovers move to". This is like the the NH Free State Project but bigger. We need a few places around the nation to gather and create communities of people that want to live free.

[losinglife]

nevada, cause its warm :D

[speciallyblend]

Colorado ,the birthplace for small government. The birth place for freedom,the birth place of the libertarian party:) This state is as open minded as you can get:) especially in the mtn regions:) and our largest city Denver:)

GO RON PAUL 2008

[Cleaner44]

Colorado ,the birthplace for small government. The birth place for freedom,the birth place of the libertarian party:) This state is as open minded as you can get:) especially in the mtn regions:) and our largest city Denver:)

GO RON PAUL 2008

Yeah, I just learned about the Libertarian roots in CO yesterday.

[ThomasJ]

Gota go Montana

http://www.northwestmontana.com/MontanaFlatheadLakeViews.jpg/MontanaFlatheadLakeViews-full.jpg

[Dustancostine]

Gota go Montana

http://www.northwestmontana.com/MontanaFlatheadLakeViews.jpg/MontanaFlatheadLakeViews-full.jpg

I can guarantee that Montana doesn't look like that today. Probably around 0 and frozen over.

I chose, Texas, Montana and Alaska.

We had to fight our own revolution down here in Texas, believe it or not people are pretty individualistic and we were once our own country, we could do it again.

--Dustan

[FrankRep]

Nice poll. can't wait to see the results.

[FSP-Rebel]

People, in order for a FSP type thing to work you have to pick a small populated state. So, AK, NH, and MT are the only logical choices. I'm thinkin that some a yall are worried about weather as your chief concern--you're only wasting your time. And out of those three, NH has better accolades than MT or AK+the fact that no one will move all the way to AK. In addition, secession wouldn't work up there since the Feds probably won't let that oil go and whatever else AK has resource speaking. NH is the only state who's constitution offers the explicit right to revolution. As libertarians, we all have our petty pet projects without consolidating. This type of thinking will always keep us spread apart. It's hard to start a FSP type project and get it going. But NH is the closest avenue for us to effect change. Think about it before ya start talkin wacky shit like moving to some island or Michigan or Texas. I mean please

[Arklatex]

Wow all of those states are winners. EDIT: Besides NH.

[INforRP]

No option for Vermont?

[thehittgirl]

nevada, cause its warm :D

Yeah that got my vote.

[Richie]

Alaska, Montana, and New Hampshire.

[Cleaner44]

People, in order for a FSP type thing to work you have to pick a small populated state. So, AK, NH, and MT are the only logical choices. I'm thinkin that some a yall are worried about weather as your chief concern--you're only wasting your time. And out of those three, NH has better accolades than MT or AK+the fact that no one will move all the way to AK. In addition, secession wouldn't work up there since the Feds probably won't let that oil go and whatever else AK has resource speaking. NH is the only state who's constitution offers the explicit right to revolution. As libertarians, we all have our petty pet projects without consolidating. This type of thinking will always keep us spread apart. It's hard to start a FSP type project and get it going. But NH is the closest avenue for us to effect change. Think about it before ya start talkin wacky shit like moving to some island or Michigan or Texas. I mean please

Good points but we could take over a congressional district of a more populated state. Not everyone is going to want to live in NH or whatever. I am thinking that if we had 2, 3, 4 or 5 different places that would be good. Planting the seeds of liberty in different plots accross our nation.

[Cleaner44]

MT has only 1 congressional disrtict
AK has only 1 district
NH has 2 districts
NV has 3 districts
WA has 9 districts, I personally love district 6

[Peregrin]

I voted:
#1 Colorado--because I grew up there and wanna take it back from all the California Crazies who have moved in
#2 Montana--because of their opposition to National ID, and no sales tax
#3 Texas--because it's big but not as far away as Alaska (which would've been #4 if I'd been allowed another vote)

[mdh]

West Virginia for the win, man. Nevada and New Hampshire are cool choices. I don't get the popularity of Montana, but I guess some people here are total loners.
Colorado is a really terrible choice for such a list, there's quite a bit of fascism on the books in Colorado. Most likely in Washington too, though I'm less familiar with it.

New Hampshire is the real FSP though - if you're trying to compete with them, you probably won't have much luck in reality. Why make a new concerted effort when we've had a perfectly good one at http://www.freestateproject.org/ for years now?

[BuddyRey]

Montana, Nevada, and New Hampshire were my choices.

Montana because there's already a burgeoning secessionist movement there, Nevada because they have proven their love for RP's message with his 2nd place win, and NH because of the established Free State Project (even though their primary results have got me pretty disillusioned with the whole thing).

[mdh]

Montana, Nevada, and New Hampshire were my choices.

Montana because there's already a burgeoning secessionist movement there, Nevada because they have proven their love for RP's message with his 2nd place win, and NH because of the established Free State Project (even though their primary results have got me pretty disillusioned with the whole thing).

You can't hold the fraud of a few against the many. NH was not lost legitimately.

[Dreepa]

[QUOTE=Peregrin;1292362]I voted:

#2 Montana--because of their opposition to National ID, and no sales tax
[QUOTE]
NH voted down REAL ID.
NH has no sales tax.
NH has no income tax.
NH has a 400 seat rep. One seat held by a freestater and one seat held by a former LPer now GOPer.

[cameronb]

Montana and Wyoming are great choices in my opinion. I'm already in the process of moving to Colorado (my wife grew up there), so that would be my first choice for that reason.

I thought it was funny that someone posted against Montana because its so cold but then suggested Alaska....umm... Alaska is pretty doggone cold.

Alaska has some real positives, but not enough people are going to move there. New Hampshire isn't exactly balmy in the winter either....

Ultimately it will have to be 2-3 "free states", and encourage as many people to move there as are willing. Many easterners won't move west, and many westerners don't want to move east. Likewise, many people in southern, warmer states won't want to move up to Montana, New Hampshire, and certainly not Alaska, or even if they do move there, won't be able to hang.
Why can't it be New Hampshire, Wyoming ( http://www.freestatewyoming.org/ ), and Montana, Colorado, or Nevada?

[ThomasJ]

If NH was so great why did they go and epic fail at voting for Ron Paul.....


Montana on the other hand....

The problem with NH is that there is so many god damn fucking liberals from New York, Mass., etc....


We need a spot with a small amount of population per square mile. Otherwise we will get swallowed up by the masses of thoughtless sheep.

NH has failed at the free state project. It failed at voting for Ron Paul, and it Fails at secession.

If the supreme court rules in favor of collective right for handguns then Montana will leave.

As for the cold....... That is what heaters are for....

You can only take off so many layers of clothes during the summer... You can't take off your skin... But you can layer the crap out of yourself during the winter.

[OferNave]

I really hate to see the momentum fragmaneted. FSP has been working on it since 2001, and we have about 530 residents and another 8k pledged. Adding a second or third state is going to dillute the already small pool of people willing to move for liberty. Some people are complaining about the showing in the primary, but it is still Ron Paul's best showing in a primary so far.

I lived in Los Angeles my whole life, just moved to NH (FSP #488!) five months ago, and I love it. I see now why NH won the FSP vote by a landslide. I've already gotten heavily involved in local politics, and we're making great progress. The NH state government structure is uniquely accessible.

[Tenbatsu]

The number of Free Staters moving to NH will never outnumber the amount of people who decide to move to southern NH to commute to Boston.

A state with low population densities and a more "libertarian" environment would be the best place to start.

[Cleaner44]

I really hate to see the momentum fragmaneted. FSP has been working on it since 2001, and we have about 530 residents and another 8k pledged. Adding a second or third state is going to dillute the already small pool of people willing to move for liberty. Some people are complaining about the showing in the primary, but it is still Ron Paul's best showing in a primary so far.

I lived in Los Angeles my whole life, just moved to NH (FSP #488!) five months ago, and I love it. I see now why NH won the FSP vote by a landslide. I've already gotten heavily involved in local politics, and we're making great progress. The NH state government structure is uniquely accessible.

I still have hope for NH but I am quite disturbed at how the Secretary of State has handled the recount effort. There needs to be 100% transparency and they have failed miserably. Even if they are not corrupt, they have given the appearence that they are. NH people need to step up and clean house.

[Cleaner44]

The number of Free Staters moving to NH will never outnumber the amount of people who decide to move to southern NH to commute to Boston.

A state with low population densities and a more "libertarian" environment would be the best place to start.

I think you are right, that is why they are a blue state and why they may have been shaving votes for Romney.

[Cleaner44]

Soon to be property of the RPR.

http://pics4.city-data.com/cpicc/cfiles5180.jpg

[FrankRep]

I want Texas to be the choice, but New Hampshire is the way to go.

http://www.FreeStateProject.com/

[Cleaner44]

NH - you will be ours!

http://www.countryfarmnh.com/images/NH-State-Capital-E.jpg

[kipload]

Look at all of the Texas people here! I haven't voted for Texas, and I probably won't. I just don't believe it would work in Texas just yet. However, it is encouraging to see all of the Texas folks in the house.

Whatever you Texans do... Get out and talk with your neighbors. Take some information pertaining to the highway. Take some DVD's with the interviews, and the debate questions answered by Ron. If the crowds are the size that the local media reports, then go there. Get involved. Pass out some info. Take second amendment slim jims. All politics are local, and the rest of us are waiting for Texas to prove that they are ready to lead the charge!

[mconder]

I'd go with Northern Colorado. There is a huge contingent of liberty minded people there. It's the birthplace of the TRT (Tyranny Response Team), which was quite effective for awhile against the gun grabbers. For anyone who is unsure about it, show up at the city park in Johnstown, Colorado on any 4th of July and you will see Fife and Drum Corps, a insanely patriotic community, patriot music, and Constitutional Speakers.

[Zeeder]

The free state project hasn't failed at all. It has barely even started. Once 8,000 people move there the GOP of that state would be ours for the taking.

I don't see how anyone can shout "failure" when only 500 people have moved.

Support our people in New Hampshire.

Montana should be the second choice.

[Cleaner44]

The free state project hasn't failed at all. It has barely even started. Once 8,000 people move there the GOP of that state would be ours for the taking.

I don't see how anyone can shout "failure" when only 500 people have moved.

Support our people in New Hampshire.

Montana should be the second choice.

This is the approach I favor, having a 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice. Not everyone will want to move to NH. For some MT or TX will be better. Just imagine if we have a 2nd or 3rd congressman in TX, 1 in MT and 1 in NH.

[puppetmaster]

Growing up in Canyon Creek Montana was fun would love to move back!!

[picaro]

New Hampshire is by far our best hope. The state legislature is uncommonly accessible. It is one of the largest elected assemblies (per capita) in the world.

We already have many free state friendly reps... and at least one FSP member elected to the state house.

We have local activist organizations already in place like the NH Liberty Alliance:

http://nhliberty.org

Also, there is a growing anarchist enclave in Keene... if you're burned out on the political front.


http://nhunderground.com/NHFreePress/
http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?action=calendar
http://anarchyhouseproject1.org/home

If you want to go retreat into a bunker, there are better places. NH is the best place to fight for freedom. Close access to media markets is somewhat important to gain prominence.

Ron Paul himself has endorsed the FSP.

Why fracture the movement? Why re-invent the wheel?

[crazyfingers]

I really hate to see the momentum fragmaneted. FSP has been working on it since 2001, and we have about 530 residents and another 8k pledged. Adding a second or third state is going to dillute the already small pool of people willing to move for liberty. Some people are complaining about the showing in the primary, but it is still Ron Paul's best showing in a primary so far.

I lived in Los Angeles my whole life, just moved to NH (FSP #488!) five months ago, and I love it. I see now why NH won the FSP vote by a landslide. I've already gotten heavily involved in local politics, and we're making great progress. The NH state government structure is uniquely accessible.

Thank you for your dedication. I attended college in Keene and lived briefly in Manchester. Unfortunately I had a difficult time finding a halfway decent job and recently ended up moving back to Connecticut where I have better connections. I'm planning on heading back up there once I get some experience under my belt, though. I don't even planning on changing my license/registration over if I can help it.

People in NH voted in the Democrats, not because of a "liberal invasion", but because they were disgusted at the direction of the national GOP. However the backlash has already started as people begin to realize they don't want higher taxes and invasive laws (like the smoking ban). It seems like the main hurdle to overcome will be convincing people not to take the sins of the national GOP out on the local guys.

[conqst3]

No option for Vermont?

Vermont is a socialist state.....there was a big hippie movement there in the 60's

[rayzer]

Why are we having this vote? It was already done in 2001. It is was MUCH better thought out and researched than this!

http://www.FreeStateProject.org

-Ray

[conqst3]

If NH was so great why did they go and epic fail at voting for Ron Paul.....


Montana on the other hand....

The problem with NH is that there is so many god damn fucking liberals from New York, Mass., etc....


We need a spot with a small amount of population per square mile. Otherwise we will get swallowed up by the masses of thoughtless sheep.

NH has failed at the free state project. It failed at voting for Ron Paul, and it Fails at secession.

If the supreme court rules in favor of collective right for handguns then Montana will leave.

As for the cold....... That is what heaters are for....

You can only take off so many layers of clothes during the summer... You can't take off your skin... But you can layer the crap out of yourself during the winter.


There are 500 freestaters in NH now, who have done an amazing job. But there only 500 people! it's not going to swing a vote. and not all of them voted for Ron Paul. They are laying the groundwork so it's easier for people to move. The FSP is just getting started, and it's growing.

The problem with Montana, is there are no jobs, and no seaport. Otherwise I would support it.

Any state that's picked will take time. Once people find out about it, they will need time. People have houses, kids, and other obligations. Some of us can't just pack up and move.
Don't be so negative, there are people in the FSP who have radio show, newspapers, tv shows. The only thing your doing is.......spewing your negativity in a internet forum.

[Cleaner44]

Why are we having this vote? It was already done in 2001. It is was MUCH better thought out and researched than this!

http://www.FreeStateProject.org

-Ray

For fun Ray. I am not moving to NH but I might move to MT, TX, WA or NV.

[libertythor]

Come on Alaska! You can pull through!

[picaro]

If you're too blinkered by your pre-conceptions of New England... there is the Free State Wyoming project (another splinter group).

If you splinter in a dozen different directions it defeats the point of these projects to begin with.

[damon04]

Texas, Nevada, Colorado

[mvpel]

The nice thing about New Hampshire is that we're all within arguing distance of one another. You can get from anywhere, to anywhere in the region where 90% of the population lives in a couple hours drive tops.

In Montana, on the other hand, if one activist lives in Wibaux and another lives in Troy, they're an 11-hour drive apart and might never meet. Likewise, Troy is about 5 hours from the capitol, and Wibaux is about a seven hour drive. Good luck testifying on anti-freedom bills... Here in New Hampshire, we can turn out dozens, or hundreds, in Concord for big legislative days on very short notice, and they can all sleep at home that night.

In Nevada, there's not even a north-south interstate - if you want to get from Las Vegas to Carson City, it's an eight-hour drive on rural highways.

Sure, if you want to just hide out and not get involved in the process, and not be an activist except for the occasional letter to the editor or to your state rep who lives 120 miles away and has no idea who you are, then sure, Nevada or Montana, Texas or Alaska, why not?

But if you want to be an activist, and work with a great group of energetic people to take real, meaningful action to protect and expand liberty in your home state, it's gotta be New Hampshire.

And Picaro - it's not the largest legislative body "per capita" - it is, in its own right, the third-largest legislative body in the entire English-speaking world. First is the US Congress, second place is the English House of Commons, and the third is the New Hampshire Legislature.

[mvpel]

But there only 500 people! it's not going to swing a vote.
Actually, it already has swung at least one vote - my wife and I, Free Staters, were the deciding votes in a 154-153 decision at our town's deliberative session to cut $1.54 million from the town budget.

[forsmant]

Wyoming

[montanarp]

53 nice and sunny

[LibertiORDeth]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=122743

Here is some ideas.

[TXcarlosTX]

TEXAS!!!! all colors all culturals!! perfect weather :-) stable real estate market. many professional sport teams to choose from. border state. ocean front. we already have many military bases. i say we keep them and claim them as our own. we will need our own army and navy. haha this is gangster :-)

[OferNave]

Actually, it already has swung at least one vote - my wife and I, Free Staters, were the deciding votes in a 154-153 decision at our town's deliberative session to cut $1.54 million from the town budget.

You rock!

People don't seem to understand exactly how effective 500 *activists* can be. The FSP isn't about getting 20k liberty minded *voters*, it's about getting 20k liberty minded *activists*. The people here on the ground, who already plugged in, are telling me that 20k is way overkill. We're already doing great work with 500 people, and with the First 1000 pledge people starting to show up, we'll be in great shape for the 2010 elections. I'm working on the 2008 elections right now.

[Joe3113]

It needs to be either Alaska or a border state with sea access.

- You would be morons to make it Colorado because, logistically, you are still under US control.
- Montana would mean you are logistically controlled by the Canadians who may eventually be infiltrated (No sea access).
- Nevada is ridiculous for the same reason as Colorado (land-locked).

Your only options are TX, NH, WA and AK....now lets break them down

- New Hampshire is too close to Washington D.C. and almost completely surrounded by other states with only relatively small sea access (easily US controlled)
- Texas sea access is dependent on the Gulf of Mexico which could be easily controlled by US ships due to it's confinement.

So I think AK and WA are the only really good options.

Alaska would be perfect because you could align yourself with Russia, be extremely far away from Washington D.C., and have Canada as a buffer. Obviously a lot of you have a problem with the weather so Washington State is also a good choice because you have excellent sea access, you are far away from Washington D.C and you have a significant proportion of your border with Canada and not other US states.

In short I think Alaska and Washington State easily take first and second place.

A very distant 3rd and 4th is NH and Texas.

The rest are just ridiculous.

[Acidlump]

New Hampshire although it has a small population that we could "overpopulate" it, the cost of living is to expensive for a move-in. The problem with Texas is that it is too big and to many people live there. For these reasons I have voted for Alaska, Montana, and Nevada. Although looking back on it Colorado and Washington could also be good states.

[katjust]

Wyoming would have been the state to pick. I am from there (now in Texas), but the tiny population would have been the best. Montana is my second choice. NH is my third.

[ThomasJ]

Montana...
Total Population
997,195
Total land area
147,165 square miles
6.19 persons per sq/mile

New Hampshire.
Total Population
1,235,786
Total land Area
9,350 square miles
137.8 persons per sq/mile

Alaska
Total Population
626,932
Total land Area
663,267 square miles
1.09 persons per sq/mile


I would suggest Alaska and Montana on population density alone. With 20k people you could completely take over a county.

You cannot do that in NH there is to many people.

[ThomasJ]

Wyoming would have been the state to pick. I am from there (now in Texas), but the tiny population would have been the best. Montana is my second choice. NH is my third.

The only reason I cannot endorse Wyoming is that Darth Cheney is from there. They have Dick Cheney federal building there in Casper.........

I cannot endorse Wyoming.

[forsmant]

The only reason I cannot endorse Wyoming is that Darth Cheney is from there. They have Dick Cheney federal building there in Casper.........

I cannot endorse Wyoming.

Thats ridiculous. I am sure you can find an example of an unliked man that resided in each state.

[BuddyRey]

You can't hold the fraud of a few against the many. NH was not lost legitimately.

Are you sure about that?

If the race was closer than it was, I would probably be suspicious of fraud myself, but we got so thoroughly trounced up there, I can't help but think NH just wasn't ready for the Ron Paul Revolution.

[Cleaner44]

It needs to be either Alaska or a border state with sea access.

- You would be morons to make it Colorado because, logistically, you are still under US control.
- Montana would mean you are logistically controlled by the Canadians who may eventually be infiltrated (No sea access).
- Nevada is ridiculous for the same reason as Colorado (land-locked).

Your only options are TX, NH, WA and AK....now lets break them down

- New Hampshire is too close to Washington D.C. and almost completely surrounded by other states with only relatively small sea access (easily US controlled)
- Texas sea access is dependent on the Gulf of Mexico which could be easily controlled by US ships due to it's confinement.

So I think AK and WA are the only really good options.

Alaska would be perfect because you could align yourself with Russia, be extremely far away from Washington D.C., and have Canada as a buffer. Obviously a lot of you have a problem with the weather so Washington State is also a good choice because you have excellent sea access, you are far away from Washington D.C and you have a significant proportion of your border with Canada and not other US states.

In short I think Alaska and Washington State easily take first and second place.

A very distant 3rd and 4th is NH and Texas.

The rest are just ridiculous.

I think these are very valid points. I was thinking much the same with sea access.

[Benaiah]

//

[IDefendThePlatform]

#1 New Hampshire
#2 Wyoming
#3 Montana

[Carolina_Misfit]

If you look up what the Indians are saying..and I did..none of those states are safe..right now the area above me would be and its not on the list....western mountains of NC...east of Tn. as far as you can go..my husband and I have been talking about finding a place..a community..we're ready...screw the bills and the house...no point in staying if the government just going to take it later anyway.

[speciallyblend]

if the state is east of denver,then you are screwed.

[speciallyblend]

Colorado is the least fascist of all the states(except alaska). I live in the co mtns ,WE ARE ALREADY A FREE STATE. We already have a majority of openminded people in our 3 counties in central colorado(and across our state). We have already won many amendments in our counties that put us years ahead of the other states . WE DONT HAVE TO MOVE WE HAVE A MAJORITY ALREADY VOTING AND MAKING CHANGES:)
COLORADO IS YEARS AHEAD OF ALL THESE PROJECTS.

unfortunately most are smart enough not to register republican;) but hey we are light years ahead of Nh and many of the states you list, if you added more people here then we would secure a majority faster . if its east of denver they are already screwed,give everything east of denver back to the british;) (sarcasm)

[d_goddard]

New Hampshire has a sea port, and a boundary with another country.

New Hampshire has a profoundly libertarian media culture:
http://www.freestateproject.org/nhinfo/life

But more importantly, the RPR is already taking over the NH GOP. We were doing it before Ron even started his presidential run, before we invited Ron to the first even NH Liberty Forum in 2007.

Go to any NH GOP event, and about 30% of the people there are Free-Staters. The President of the FSP is the Chair of the NH Women's Republican Federation, and vice-chair of the Concord City GOP, fer cryin' out loud! A bunch of the Manchester GOP committee are ... you guessed it... Free-Staters.

Whine and complain and make excuses and daydream all you like. Where the rubber hits the road, we've been doing the ground work for years in NH. Why start from zero?

[OferNave]

Go to any NH GOP event, and about 30% of the people there are Free-Staters. The President of the FSP is the Chair of the NH Women's Republican Federation, and vice-chair of the Concord City GOP, fer cryin' out loud! A bunch of the Manchester GOP committee are ... you guessed it... Free-Staters.

And one of them runs a fabulous tavern!

NH FTW.

[FTL_Ian]

Good luck to anyone who doesn't choose NH. If you want to be with the best Liberty activists, NH wins in spades. :cool:

[Jane Aitken]

NH is already the home of the 'free state' movement so this is redundant.

We already have people elected to office here too.
It's very easy to get close to government here.

Come join us in NH!

[Jane Aitken]

Seems like a liberal state to me. And a highly taxed one at that.

Not sure you 'get it'. When we say FREE we mean, of restrictive government, with fiscally sound policies and low taxes.

Open minded usually means the beads and sandals crowd, and big government.

[porcupine]

Most of these posts have to consistent themes. One is "I want to move where it's warm" and the other is "I don't want to move at all. I want everyone to move to where I am."

Both of these predict failure because they show laziness and an unwillingness to make even the smallest of sacrifices for freedom.

Warm states have a major problem: everyone is moving there. In the west, the warm states are getting lots of socialist nanny state Californians. In the East, warm states are already filled up with socialists nanny-staters who are getting re-enforced with yuppy socialist nanny staters from the North. Plus, the high population growth will make it hard for the freedom lovers moving in to not get drowned out. Texas is already too big.

If you want a free state, it's going to be a bit cold.

If you are more concerned about weather than freedom, move to Texas or the Nevada desert. If you are a serious liberty activist, come join the growing community making a real difference in New Hampshire! We've started setting up the infrastructure to wage a long and lasting battle for freedom.

New Hampshire has the lowest taxes of any state in the country, very good gun laws, many counties have no zoning or building permit requirements. In addition, you've got lots of people backing you up as you run for office, protest or do whatever it is you do. See what happened in Grafton (http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20080206.htm)recently, for instance.

In New Hampshire, whatever you do for freedom, you will not do it alone. And did I mention that New Hampshire has NO REAL ID and has made it illegal for the state to participate in the Real ID program?


Montana and Alaska aren't bad choices as far as being places with a lot of freedom, but again, any causes you get into will probably be done all by yourself.


If you have any doubts about New Hampshire, come to the Porcupine Freedom Festival (http://www.freestateproject.org/festival/)this summer!

[freest8r]

The FSP has years and years of ground work already laid in the great state of New Hampshire. Dr. Jason Sorens did a ton of research at the very beginning to determine what criteria were needed for successful free state project. 10 states were put up for a vote once 5,000 people signed up. New Hampshire won, and the results there have been spectacular. They started ahead of most states because they don't have any sales tax or income tax, and they have a culture of liberty.

Once Free Staters started moving in, the results, particularly at the local level, have been awesome. We are too small a movement to try to spread out over a bunch of different states. The key is to pick one and make it happen.

Go to the Porcupine Festival this Summer in New Hampshire and see for yourself. It will give you hope, and it will be an experience you'll never forget.

http://www.freestateproject.org/festival

[markwarden]

Because of the Free State Project activists who are already in the state (over 530 an counting, with 500 more on the way this year), New Hampshire already has the people and infrastructure in place for this type of movement. It just makes sense!

With NH's "first in the nation primary" every 4 years, we'll have a chance to always be out front with the next pro-liberty candidate to follow in Dr. Paul's footsteps.

[FreeStater]

Seems like a liberal state to me. And a highly taxed one at that.

Not sure you 'get it'. When we say FREE we mean, of restrictive government, with fiscally sound policies and low taxes.

Open minded usually means the beads and sandals crowd, and big government.

Are you talking about NH? If so, are you joking?

NH has the lowest tax burden of any state except Saudi Alaska. New Hampshire has No Sales Tax. No Income Tax. New Hampshire was recently rated the least effective state government in the United States by the Pew research center, noting that nobody in the government has any power to get anything done. New Hampshire has some of the least restrictive gun laws (Open carry is legal, concealed carry requires a permit which is on a shall-issue basis). The most governmental power is at the local level where 30 people from the town get together and decide stuff like the property tax, tell me thats not ripe for freedom movement.

Seriously, I understand that some of you are afraid of snow, and I respect that. If you want to go somewhere else, Go. You might even be able to convince a couple people to agree with you. However, for those of you who want to do something worthwhile, join the Free State Project.

One note on the snow thing: The two hosts of Free Talk Live (a nationally syndicated radio show sponsored by the Free State Project) moved to New Hampshire from Florida. And one of them has been spending the winter building his own house. Those are the kinds of committed people we have in NH.

[pinkmandy]

Or if you don't want to reinvent the wheel, check out these discussion that the free staters had years ago on ALL the states- pros and cons: http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=5.0

I'm heading up to NH w/dh on the 28th of this month for a visit. We hope to move before summer. Parts of NH avg 10 degrees cooler year round than it is in my area of VA year round. I can deal w/a 10 degree avg difference for freedom. I see a lot of assumptions and you have to remember A LOT depends on where you live as well.

[Jane Aitken]

Are you talking about NH? If so, are you joking?

If you *really* are in NH and don't know who "Jane Aitken" is then you are really VERY NEW. It's funny when newbies land here and try to tell the natives all about NH. LOL I know the other two posters calling themselves, 'porcupines' so who are you?



NH has the lowest tax burden of any state except Saudi Alaska. New Hampshire has No Sales Tax. No Income Tax. New Hampshire was recently rated the least effective state government in the United States by the Pew research center, noting that nobody in the government has any power to get anything done. New Hampshire has some of the least restrictive gun laws (Open carry is legal, concealed carry requires a permit which is on a shall-issue basis). The most governmental power is at the local level where 30 people from the town get together and decide stuff like the property tax, tell me thats not ripe for freedom movement.

Yah, so? Yer preachin' to the choir.



Seriously, I understand that some of you are afraid of snow, and I respect that. If you want to go somewhere else, Go. You might even be able to convince a couple people to agree with you. However, for those of you who want to do something worthwhile, join the Free State Project.

I don't have to join any group to motivate me to live in NH. I've been here for decades and I'm already a fixture in the political scene. But like I said you must be new....



One note on the snow thing: The two hosts of Free Talk Live (a nationally syndicated radio show sponsored by the Free State Project) moved to New Hampshire from Florida. And one of them has been spending the winter building his own house. Those are the kinds of committed people we have in NH.

Well I am an ex-downhill racer so I doubt the snow bothers me much. And I have my own radio show that is more about getting things done than ranting about what is wrong.

Check us out sometime:

NH Taxpayer Radio on Odeo, iTunes, Podcaster.com etc... and if you really live here you can get us on 90.7 FM on the RADIO!

No I'm not joking. Colorado is full of socialists.

[FreeStater]

I have heard of Jane Aitken, but to be honest, I rarely notice the names of people posting on forums, since I rarely know them personally. I have listened to NH Taxpayer Radio, actually, it was good, though I don't get to it often enough.

Please do not take my post to be a personal hostility, most of it wasn't even directed at your post, but mostly to the Anti-NH crowd in general. I thought the post you posted about the state being socialist and highly taxed was towards New Hampshire (which was why the "Are you talking about New Hampshire") if judging by your most recent post you were instead talking about Colorado, I'd agree.

The mistake was mine and I apologize for any confusion. On this forum I've taken to zeal in defense of NH.

Actually, I see the reasoning behind my confusion. You had two posts in a row, one proclaiming the benefit of NH, one that (had I noticed the subject line) was focused on Colorado that I misread as a response to your first post by someone else who was attacking NH. Happy to clear it up.

[Matt]

Why isn't Wyoming on here? It has like 500k people total, and it was second to NH in the Free State Project vote.

[IDefendThePlatform]

Why isn't Wyoming on here? It has like 500k people total, and it was second to NH in the Free State Project vote.

Agreed. Wyoming would be my #2 choice(after new hampshire), and already has a free state project in place:

http://www.freestatewyoming.org/

[GunnyFreedom]

Where is Wyoming? Wyoming is my #1. Can't vote without a Wyoming.

[GunnyFreedom]

#1 - Wyoming
#2 - Montana
#3 - Alaska

[Jane Aitken]

I have heard of Jane Aitken, but to be honest, I rarely notice the names of people posting on forums, since I rarely know them personally. I have listened to NH Taxpayer Radio, actually, it was good, though I don't get to it often enough.

Please do not take my post to be a personal hostility, most of it wasn't even directed at your post, but mostly to the Anti-NH crowd in general. I thought the post you posted about the state being socialist and highly taxed was towards New Hampshire (which was why the "Are you talking about New Hampshire") if judging by your most recent post you were instead talking about Colorado, I'd agree.

The mistake was mine and I apologize for any confusion. On this forum I've taken to zeal in defense of NH.

Actually, I see the reasoning behind my confusion. You had two posts in a row, one proclaiming the benefit of NH, one that (had I noticed the subject line) was focused on Colorado that I misread as a response to your first post by someone else who was attacking NH. Happy to clear it up.

Here is one of many BETTER examples of a model freestater -- someone who is politically active in his or her community and has made a living for himself here.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Keith+Murphy+has+dreams+of+m aking+it+big+here+in+NH&articleId=931731d4-0536-4587-b3bf-4599268091bd

[Jane Aitken]

#1 - Wyoming
#2 - Montana
#3 - Alaska

The legislature in these states is not accessible either due to the size of the state itself or the number of times it meets.

NH's legislature is accessible. All the activists know each other because we are a small state and a very prosperous one being near the coast and all the high tech industries.

These three states above are find if you want to hole up in the mountains somewhere.

[GunnyFreedom]

The legislature in these states is not accessible either due to the size of the state itself or the number of times it meets.

NH's legislature is accessible. All the activists know each other because we are a small state and a very prosperous one being near the coast and all the high tech industries.

These three states above are find if you want to hole up in the mountains somewhere.

The degree to which we transform the local politic, wherever we go, is directly related to how much of our own interest we give it. If we are committed to changing the local parties and local elections, we will do so either in NH or in WY. We will do it wherever we are. Being located in New Hampshire, is not a prerequisite for transforming the state politic.

If citizens en-masse begin attending precinct meetings, and county conventions, we will transform the local politic wherever we happen to be.

[Nathan Hale]

Go to New Hampshire. The Free State Project is a well-organized group. There are already organizations ranging from the NH Free activist crowd to the NHLA political crowd. Each county is also well-organized, with frequent meetings and candidacies. The FSP already has a few members serving as state representatives, and many more at the local level.

Don't reinvent the wheel. I was with the FSP when they went through the process of choosing a state and it was horrible. The issue was really divisive and it's not worth repeating. A lot of research went in to their choosing NH as the free state, and their analysis of the state stands. It's still one of the best states in the nation, and there is already a huge liberty movement within its borders.

I know there's a lot of sentiment in favor of several states being chosen, but even a "Ron Paul FSP" wouldn't attract so many people as to allow for multiple states. I don't think this effort will be bigger than the FSP, and the FSP had 5,000 members at the time they chose their state. They judged that they would need 20,000 in order to have a big effect in a state with a population of under 1.5 million. My liberal estimate is that you could match the FSP's numbers, in which case you'd need to limit yourself to one state in order to stand a chance of succeeding. Just go to New Hampshire and join the movement already in progress!

[pinkmandy]

The degree to which we transform the local politic, wherever we go, is directly related to how much of our own interest we give it. If we are committed to changing the local parties and local elections, we will do so either in NH or in WY. We will do it wherever we are. Being located in New Hampshire, is not a prerequisite for transforming the state politic.

If citizens en-masse begin attending precinct meetings, and county conventions, we will transform the local politic wherever we happen to be.


In NH every 200 or so people are represented in their state house by a delegate. That's unmatched anywhere in the world for representation. Those seats are important, the delegates make the decisions for the state. Like no REAL ID (go NH!). And most of those delegates run UNOPPOSED. The pay is only $100/yr so money is not a motivator. It's a major reason NH was chosen- because it's the easiest state for us to legally govern. That's what we need, to GOVERN a state. We can reject federal funding, reject federal laws, reassert state rights in many areas...there is so much we can do if we all just GO.

I'm heading up for a visit on the 28th. We plan to move within months.

[GunnyFreedom]

In NH every 200 or so people are represented in their state house by a delegate. That's unmatched anywhere in the world for representation. Those seats are important, the delegates make the decisions for the state. Like no REAL ID (go NH!). And most of those delegates run UNOPPOSED. The pay is only $100/yr so money is not a motivator. It's a major reason NH was chosen- because it's the easiest state for us to legally govern. That's what we need, to GOVERN a state. We can reject federal funding, reject federal laws, reassert state rights in many areas...there is so much we can do if we all just GO.

I'm heading up for a visit on the 28th. We plan to move within months.

Meh. You can go fight against the Boston infection. I can't tolerate it myself. If I moved to NH, I'd wind up on death row one day. WY threatened to arrest and jail federal agents citing that the Patriot Act was unconstitutional. That rates respect. I'm doubly set against the FSNH because they like to pretend that Wyoming doesn't exist. That very kind of tactic we saw used against Ron Paul, putting everyone but him in the 'voters guides.' If the FSNH'ers I had encountered were more balanced and less biased, I'd probably be more enthusiastic about their movement. Mention every state but Wyoming, and maybe people will forget about it...

A state that jails FBI agents who try to use the Patriot Act in their territory.
And they are that painful to acknowledge as a viable stronghold of freedom?

I don't like the tactic, so FSNH leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. quite frankly. I want to like them, but I can't. Not to mention the Ron Paul Primary performance when it was pivotal.

I got nothin agin' ye, but convincing me to choose NH now would be akin to the mountain becoming a plain before Zerubbabel. If you don't have a genuine miracle of God up your sleeve, then NH is probably staying last on my list for the time being. FauxNews tactics belong to things that are Faux. That's just my read on things.

[porcupine]

Meh. You can go fight against the Boston infection. I can't tolerate it myself. If I moved to NH, I'd wind up on death row one day. WY threatened to arrest and jail federal agents citing that the Patriot Act was unconstitutional. That rates respect.

That's nice bluster. How many FBI agents have they jailed?

And what have they done to reject the national ID card in Wyoming? Nothing? Yeah, that's what I thought.

[truelies]

THERE IS A MAJOR PROBLEM WITH THIS IDEA-Even if a narrow pro-liberty majority were to be created in a single State, the feds would use the complaint of even a single individual that his/her 'god given nanny state rights to a free lunch' were being infringed to shut the whole project down and force a return to bidness as usual.

[porcupine]

THERE IS A MAJOR PROBLEM WITH THIS IDEA-Even if a narrow pro-liberty majority were to be created in a single State, the feds would use the complaint of even a single individual that his/her 'god given nanny state rights to a free lunch' were being infringed to shut the whole project down and force a return to bidness as usual.

This is one of the most annoying things about some of you on this board: the paranoia and the way you are frozen by fear (or maybe you're not really afraid, but use it as a crutch to not act). So what do you propose doing instead, truelies? How would the feds just "shut it down?"

Either give some constructive ideas or shut the hell up.

Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.

[truelies]

...........................Either give some constructive ideas or shut the hell up.

Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.


with all due respect- BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS, your precious 'free state' idea has 0.00000% chance of bearing fruit. Get over it and realise that freedom is going to have to be lived mostly in the middle of a herd of freedom fearing sheeple. just a a forinstance the fellow with the libertarian gated community concept is on a far better path than the 'free state' folks.

[OferNave]

Go to New Hampshire. The Free State Project is a well-organized group. There are already organizations ranging from the NH Free activist crowd to the NHLA political crowd. Each county is also well-organized, with frequent meetings and candidacies. The FSP already has a few members serving as state representatives, and many more at the local level.

Don't reinvent the wheel. I was with the FSP when they went through the process of choosing a state and it was horrible. The issue was really divisive and it's not worth repeating. A lot of research went in to their choosing NH as the free state, and their analysis of the state stands. It's still one of the best states in the nation, and there is already a huge liberty movement within its borders.

I know there's a lot of sentiment in favor of several states being chosen, but even a "Ron Paul FSP" wouldn't attract so many people as to allow for multiple states. I don't think this effort will be bigger than the FSP, and the FSP had 5,000 members at the time they chose their state. They judged that they would need 20,000 in order to have a big effect in a state with a population of under 1.5 million. My liberal estimate is that you could match the FSP's numbers, in which case you'd need to limit yourself to one state in order to stand a chance of succeeding. Just go to New Hampshire and join the movement already in progress!

What he said. And when you get here, join this: http://nhliberty.org/

[Nathan Hale]

with all due respect- BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS, your precious 'free state' idea has 0.00000% chance of bearing fruit. Get over it and realise that freedom is going to have to be lived mostly in the middle of a herd of freedom fearing sheeple. just a a forinstance the fellow with the libertarian gated community concept is on a far better path than the 'free state' folks.

This isn't true. If the Ron Paul revolution moved to NH you would absolutely see a libertarian state in less than a decade. Go to the FSP's site and read through the archives. This stuff was debated for a long time before the members considered it viable.

[brianewart]

People, in order for a FSP type thing to work you have to pick a small populated state. So, AK, NH, and MT are the only logical choices.

Wyoming?

[Tomba88]

New Hampshire. Hundreds of "Free Staters" have already moved here. NH is a small in terms of both size and population. Why not team up with other freedom minded people in a small state where we can make the biggest impact.