Montana preparing to secede !

[Sandra]

So the Montana Secretary of State is agreeing to secession if the second amendment is ruled against by the Supreme Court. The most militia minded state in the union, and they thought they would stay if ya take their guns away?


http://www.progunleaders.org

[Dave Wood]

uh oh! If Montana took concrete steps to seceed, I believe there are 3 others waiting to jump on that bandwagon (Vemont, Tenn, S.C.). I think this is a very dangerous time in this nations history, and it isnt because of "islamofascists" either.

[ToryNotion]

Federal government response: You can have your Liberty when you pry my fingers from around your cold, dead neck.

[familydog]

Federal government response: You can have your Liberty when you pry my fingers from around your cold, dead neck.

Yes. One of our founding values is self-determination.....as long as its wayyy over seas.

[LEK]

uh oh! If Montana took concrete steps to seceed, I believe there are 3 others waiting to jump on that bandwagon (Vemont, Tenn, S.C.). I think this is a very dangerous time in this nations history, and it isnt because of "islamofascists" either.

I'm in SC - we did it once, we can do it again.
Ron Paul can be our Jefferson Davis!

[acptulsa]

uh oh! If Montana took concrete steps to seceed, I believe there are 3 others waiting to jump on that bandwagon (Vemont, Tenn, S.C.). I think this is a very dangerous time in this nations history, and it isnt because of "islamofascists" either.

Oh, Texas will be on that bandwagon, too--and maybe a couple of close neighbors with them.

[Cinderella]

its almost like all these school shooting etc are made to scare the people so they willingly turn in their guns.....well im in mass...if vermont jumps ship ill move to vermont...thank god for these states

[Ex Post Facto]

I love this country, I hate where it is headed as it's everything unamerican about what it once stood for. However, this is why the federal government isn't supposed to be a giant machine. It's supposed to impose only restrictions that are in compliance with the constitution.

[wv@SC]

Did any of y'all go to school?

Don't you remember at the beginning of every school day where you would stand up by your desk, place your right hand over your heart, and say "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"?

The majority of the people would react as though a state trying to secede is treason to the rest of the US through this little pledge that has been drilled into their heads since early childhood.

That being said, I was home-schooled since 4th grade and haven't had to deal with it :).

GO MONTANA!

[Cinderella]

as a young child i never said that pledge....i just never agreed with it....i guess ive always been a revolutionary

[LEK]

its almost like all these school shooting etc are made to scare the people so they willingly turn in their guns.....well im in mass...if vermont jumps ship ill move to vermont...thank god for these states

There's something to it...weird how the latest shooting involved a kid that was released from the MILITARY for psychological reasons. I think we would be shaken to the core if we knew the ins-and-outs and the extent of what military psy-ops is capable of.

I know, sounds conspiratorial, but there is too much dovetailing of recent events and what is concurrently going on at the federal level.

God gave us brains - don't let anyone tell you to dump yours in a basket.

[nullvalu]

Don't you remember at the beginning of every school day where you would stand up by your desk, place your right hand over your heart, and say "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"?

Ugh.. the pledge.. I had a group of first graders the other day (i'm a den leader for cub scouts) and asked them what the pledge meant. Noone knew. I asked what form of government we have? (it's stated in the pledge) Noone knew, except for one parent (got it spot-on, Constitutional Republic). Also asked if anyone knew what liberty meant. No clue. One parent said freedom, but then I went on to explain that it's much more than a word, it's a philosophy. And I tried to explain as best I could to a group of 6-year olds the philosophy of self-ownership & liberty. Ugh..

Anyways, I think this is where we need to try to make a difference. If you have children, get involved for craps sake and help "uneducate" these kids before we have another generation like our own. :)

[Dave Wood]

Ugh.. the pledge.. I had a group of first graders the other day (i'm a den leader for cub scouts) and asked them what the pledge meant. Noone knew. I asked what form of government we have? (it's stated in the pledge) Noone knew, except for one parent (got it spot-on, Constitutional Republic). Also asked if anyone knew what liberty meant. No clue. One parent said freedom, but then I went on to explain that it's much more than a word, it's a philosophy. And I tried to explain as best I could to a group of 6-year olds the philosophy of self-ownership & liberty. Ugh..

Anyways, I think this is where we need to try to make a difference. If you have children, get involved for craps sake and help "uneducate" these kids before we have another generation like our own. :)

I have a great deal of respect for anyone who takes on the "den leader" "den mother" roles. That is a tough job.

You are so right about de-programing and installing a FIREWALL in our childrens brains!

[Ball]

It would be helpful if these states would recognize each other now, before the shit hits the fan.

[Cinderella]

There's something to it...weird how the latest shooting involved a kid that was released from the MILITARY for psychological reasons. I think we would be shaken to the core if we knew the ins-and-outs and the extent of what military psy-ops is capable of.

I know, sounds conspiratorial, but there is too much dovetailing of recent events and what is concurrently going on at the federal level.

God gave us brains - don't let anyone tell you to dump yours in a basket.

the guy purchased the gun from the same place the virginia tech shooter got his guns.....coincidence????:rolleyes:

[wv@SC]

the guy purchased the gun from the same place the virginia tech shooter got his guns.....coincidence????:rolleyes:

Can I have a link to this? That is interesting...

[RonRules]

Hook up with Alberta, they want to secede from Canada. Similar liberterians there.

[Redmenace]

As a Montanan I would happily defend my state against the tyranny of our federal government.

[Dave Wood]

It would be helpful if these states would recognize each other now, before the shit hits the fan.

Vermont, Tenn, SC have been meeting since early summer. It seems to be making more sense to me now, this uproar must be completely about 2nd amend and the supreme court.

I thought it was about impeachment when I first heard of the meetings......sounded a little harsh over impeachment. :o

Now it makes much more sense.;)

[Sandra]

It's on the Montana Secretary of State website. Google "Montana Secretary of State".

I got the link from that site: http://www.progunleaders.org

[hyoomen]

If only the Free State Project could be more successful and push for a similar strategy.

In the mean time maybe we need to work on a new, viral pledge of allegiance?

[nullvalu]

I have a great deal of respect for anyone who takes on the "den leader" "den mother" roles. That is a tough job.

You would not believe the amount of shit I put up with. Especially from a couple bitchy mothers who think they know how to run the entire thing but are just "too busy" when you actually ask them for help. You have no idea. ;)

[Sandra]

My brother lives in Ballantine! He's very militia minded.

[Cinderella]

Can I have a link to this? That is interesting...

http://www.alternet.org/bloggers/dna/77296/

Even more frustrating is that both Kazmierczak and Seung-Hui bought equipment used in the shootings from companies owned by the same online dealer, Eric Thompson. It's not clear whether or not Kazmierczak found out about the websites from news surrounding the Virginia Tech shooting, or whether it's simply "a coincidence".


Eric Thompson said his Web site, TopGlock.com sold two empty 9 mm Glock magazines and a Glock holster to Steven Kazmierczak on Feb. 4, just 10 days before the 27-year-old opened fire in a classroom and killed five before committing suicide.


Another Web site run by Thompson's company, TheGunStore.com , also sold a Walther .22-caliber handgun to Seung-Hui Cho, who killed 32 people in April on the Virginia Tech campus before killing himself.


"I'm still blown away by the coincidences," Thompson said Friday. "I'm shaking. I can't believe somebody would order from us again and do this."

[Dave Wood]

Herea link to the Cnn story: http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/15/university.shooting/

[Lisa S]

The Lakota indians are also trying to secede. It seems like a revolution might well be brewing in this country.

[pacelli]

its almost like all these school shooting etc are made to scare the people so they willingly turn in their guns.....

Kind of interesting how all of these lone gunmen have a history of psychiatric treatment and "erratic behavior" after being on medications?

The assault on the second amendment has begun. It is a slippery slope. First they take guns away from veterans diagnosed with PTSD (i.e. take the guns away from patriots who have the most combat experience).

Next there will be a centralized database where all psychological records and diagnoses will be stored (I am a psychologist and there is already talk of this occurring in my circles). They attempted to do this with the 'personal health identifier' number, but funding for this has been consistently voted down by Ron Paul.

Next, anyone with a history of mental illness will not be able to own a gun (this is already on gun purchase documents), even if their mental illness occurred after their gun purchase. The next step in the slippery slope will be a regulation of ammunition sales and production.

[filmmaker58]

My brother lives in Ballentine! He's very militia minded.

My brother lives in Ireland, he's a tail-gunner on a bakery truck. Looks like we might need him here.

[aravoth]

Whats a nice mountainous area of Montana, next to a river, deep in the woods, roughly 1-2 hours from any major city, go for these days, anyone familiar with Montana and it's real estate?

[Crickett]

as a young child i never said that pledge....i just never agreed with it....i guess ive always been a revolutionary

Yeah,,I could never see pledging allegiance to a flag. What's more, our Star Spangled Banner is a war song, and I truly hate to sing it if bombs bursting in air is a great thing to see our flag under.

[nullvalu]

Another Web site run by Thompson's company, TheGunStore.com , also sold a Walther .22-caliber handgun..

I guess he's getting some pretty good advertising out of the whole ordeal. I'm gonna go see if they've got any P99's in stock. :)

EDIT: hmm it actually seems like that site is just a domain squatter? maybe they got the site address wrong in the story.

[1836]

Oh, Texas will be on that bandwagon, too--and maybe a couple of close neighbors with them.

Damn right! This is awesome! Come and take it!



By the way, Don't know if anyone noticed, but there was an article in USA Today this morning that talks about how Montana's governor is fiercely resisting THE REAL ID ACT and calling on other Western governors to do the same.

[Dave Wood]

The Lakota indians are also trying to secede. It seems like a revolution might well be brewing in this country.

the problem with secession is the violence that will ensue. This will no longer be bloodless...........I really dont want to see that happen in my childs lifetime.

[garyallen59]

I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it protects
One nation, indivisible
For liberty and justice for all (no seriously we mean it, liberty and justice for ALL)

[Dave Wood]

Damn right! This is awesome! Come and take it!



By the way, Don't know if anyone noticed, but there was an article in USA Today this morning that talks about how Montana's governor is fiercely resisting THE REAL ID ACT and calling on other Western governors to do the same.


Virginia is TOO! Way to go VA!

[aravoth]

the problem with secession is the violence that will ensue. This will no longer be bloodless...........I really dont want to see that happen in my childs lifetime.

“If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.”

thomas paine

[Mandrik]

Did any of y'all go to school?

Don't you remember at the beginning of every school day where you would stand up by your desk, place your right hand over your heart, and say "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"?


I don't remember that part of school. I was too busy sitting in the office for refusing to stand. They made me sit there every day, but the principal assured me it wasn't punishment, but rather for my protection (lol).

[nullvalu]

I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it protects
One nation, indivisible
For liberty and justice for all (no seriously we mean it, liberty and justice for ALL)

Oooh I like that ^^^ :)

[Cinderella]

watch this video...its only 3 mins....can we have a bloodless revolution???

http://galloway.wordpress.com/2007/02/18/malcolm-x-the-ballot-or-the-bullet-speech/

[FunkBuddha]

“If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.”

thomas paine

QFT... damn dude, I just teared up. I've thought about this a lot. I would happily give my life if my son could live in a free country.

[belian78]

the guy purchased the gun from the same place the virginia tech shooter got his guns.....coincidence????:rolleyes:

REALLY!? i did not know that.

[Dave Wood]

You all got to go to this link!!!!

http://www.blacktable.com/tyer040826.htm

If you think Montana wont be the first to seceed this time, this will wake you up!!


#6. We Got Your WMD Right Here, Buddy.

If Montana were to secede from the union to become its own sovereign nation (and don't push us, man, we'll do it), we would instantly become the world's fourth-largest (known) nuclear power. Innocuous white concrete bunkers sprouted in fields and valleys across 23,000 acres of central Montana contain some 200 Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missiles equipped with nuclear warheads and watched over by 55 "missileers" of the Air Force's 341st Space Wing. Don't mess with Texas? We've got three words for the Lone Star State: Bring. It. On.

[Cinderella]

“If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.”

thomas paine


agree....i have a four year old and i want the best for her even if it means i have to give myself

http://galloway.wordpress.com/2007/02/18/malcolm-x-the-ballot-or-the-bullet-speech/

[freelance]

Vermont, Tenn, SC have been meeting since early summer. It seems to be making more sense to me now, this uproar must be completely about 2nd amend and the supreme court.

I thought it was about impeachment when I first heard of the meetings......sounded a little harsh over impeachment. :o

Now it makes much more sense.;)

I can't imagine that the legislature would care about impeachment. Second Amendment makes much more sense. I'm tickled to death that TN is serious about this. THIS is something worth fighting for. I would sooner face fire over this than over a march in D.C.

[thePhilosopher]

Not a blip on the MSM radar, but some interesting stuff floating around the internet on it. I'd be extremely surprised if this develops into anything, though.

[BigFatRock]

I think secession can be pulled off without shedding of blood nowadays. I mean, it would be a PR nightmare for the U.S., and it may be the one time having the UN on our soil would come in handy. I have no doubt the UN (whether for doubtful motives or not) would come down on the side of "let it go."

Dave, is Virginia really fighting REAL ID? I hadn't heard that, but really hope they are.

[wv@SC]

You all got to go to this link!!!!

http://www.blacktable.com/tyer040826.htm

If you think Montana wont be the first to seceed this time, this will wake you up!!


#6. We Got Your WMD Right Here, Buddy.

If Montana were to secede from the union to become its own sovereign nation (and don't push us, man, we'll do it), we would instantly become the world's fourth-largest (known) nuclear power. Innocuous white concrete bunkers sprouted in fields and valleys across 23,000 acres of central Montana contain some 200 Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missiles equipped with nuclear warheads and watched over by 55 "missileers" of the Air Force's 341st Space Wing. Don't mess with Texas? We've got three words for the Lone Star State: Bring. It. On.

Dude, that is awesome!

[Bubba]

its almost like all these school shooting etc are made to scare the people so they willingly turn in their guns.....well im in mass...if vermont jumps ship ill move to vermont...thank god for these states

It's called: Problem-Reaction-Solution.

[leonster]

If only the Free State Project could be more successful and push for a similar strategy.

In the mean time maybe we need to work on a new, viral pledge of allegiance?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Constitutional Republic for which it stands, a nation dedicated, above all else and as an inalienable right, to liberty for all.

[davidkachel]

If only the Free State Project could be more successful and push for a similar strategy.

In the mean time maybe we need to work on a new, viral pledge of allegiance?

The very concept of a pledge of allegiance is anathema to everything for which this country is supposed to stand. If you have a pledge of allegiance, OF ANY KIND, you are not free. Don't you get it?

[Bubba]

There's something to it...weird how the latest shooting involved a kid that was released from the MILITARY for psychological reasons. I think we would be shaken to the core if we knew the ins-and-outs and the extent of what military psy-ops is capable of.

I know, sounds conspiratorial, but there is too much dovetailing of recent events and what is concurrently going on at the federal level.

God gave us brains - don't let anyone tell you to dump yours in a basket.

Manchurian Candidates - every one of those school shootings. Notice how the kids never say a word? just blast away?

When someone goes "Postal" on their own volition, they always have something to bitch about - like a lost job so the manager gets it.

[Zeeder]

Does anyone have contact information for those in the Montana Government that support secession?

I believe some moral support is in order. We should all praise and encourage them for standing up for the Bill of Rights.

[leonster]

I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it protects
One nation, indivisible
For liberty and justice for all (no seriously we mean it, liberty and justice for ALL)

I like this too...

And have a copy of the Constitution on the wall of every classroom, next to the flag....

[katjust]

I support secession. I live in Texas now, but am from Wyoming. If Montana decided to secede (I don't actually see that language anywhere in the provided link), I would hope that Wyoming would agree to secede as well. I could see Wyoming seceding before Texas (even though there would definitely be and are a lot of Texans who want to secede now).

[klamath]

Whats a nice mountainous area of Montana, next to a river, deep in the woods, roughly 1-2 hours from any major city, go for these days, anyone familiar with Montana and it's real estate?
The prices of real estate skyrocketed in western Montana over the recent years but it might be going down now.
My son and family live around Thompson falls. Some in the militia movement are great at spouting about their rights being violated as long as their welfare and disability checks keep coming.:rolleyes:

[LEK]

There's something to it...weird how the latest shooting involved a kid that was released from the MILITARY for psychological reasons. I think we would be shaken to the core if we knew the ins-and-outs and the extent of what military psy-ops is capable of.

I know, sounds conspiratorial, but there is too much dovetailing of recent events and what is concurrently going on at the federal level.

God gave us brains - don't let anyone tell you to dump yours in a basket.

WHY ARE WE TOLERATING THIS MADNESS?
http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter119.htm

It becomes obvious, in this, that the mind-altering prescription drugs are not being addressed because they serve the purpose of causing the problem for which the ultimate solution, the wanted solution, is the revocation of the Second Amendment: the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms. Bluntly speaking, the lives lost due to these mind-altering prescription drugs is a price willingly paid if the ultimate solution achieved is gun control to the point of gun confiscation and only the government having guns.

Further evidence of this lies in the oft repeated mantra that more guns equals more violence. What rubbish! Good fences make good neighbors and an armed society is also a polite society. If even one of the students in that lecture hall had had the means of defense, lives could have been saved.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
H.R. 3305: Anti-Terrorism Act of 2007
To provide for the safety of United States aviation and the suppression of terrorism.

Sponsor: Rep. Ronald Paul [R-TX](no cosponsors)

SEC. 2. AVIATION SAFETY AND SUPPRESSION OF TERRORISM.

Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no department or agency of the Federal Government shall prohibit any pilot, copilot, or navigator of an aircraft, or any law enforcement personnel specifically detailed for the protection of that aircraft, from carrying a firearm.

[Sandra]

AN EXTRA-SESSION RESOLUTION OF INDIVIDUAL LEGISLATORS OF THE 60TH MONTANA LEGISLATURE AND OTHER ELECTED MONTANA OFFICIALS URGING THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT THAT ANY "COLLECTIVE RIGHTS" HOLDING IN D.C. V. HELLER WILL VIOLATE MONTANA'S COMPACT WITH THE UNITED STATES, THE CONTRACT BY WHICH MONTANA ENTERED THE UNION IN 1889.

WHEREAS, the United States Supreme Court (Court) has agreed to review and decide the case of D.C. v. Heller appealed to it from the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals;

WHEREAS, the Court has agreed to consider the question, "Whether the following provisions — D.C. Code secs. 7-2502.02(a)(4), 22-4504(a), and 7-2507.02 — violate the Second Amendment rights of individuals who are not affiliated with any state-regulated militia, but who wish to keep handguns and other firearms for private use in their homes";

WHEREAS, when the Court determines in Heller whether or not the Second Amendment secures an individual right, the Court will establish precedent that will affect the State of Montana and the political rights of the citizens of Montana;


To establish breach of contract and release from contract.

WHEREAS, when Montana entered into statehood in 1889, that entrance was accomplished by a contract between Montana and the several states, a contract known as The Compact With The United States (Compact), found today as Article I of the Montana Constitution;

WHEREAS, with authority from Congress acting as agent for the several states, President Benjamin Harrison approved the Montana Constitution in 1889, which secured the right of "any person" to bear arms, clearly intended as an individual right and an individual right deemed consistent then with the Second Amendment by the parties to the contract;

WHEREAS, the wording of the Second Amendment and the Montana right to bear arms, now Article II, Section 12, exist today in form and wording identical to that agreed upon by the citizens of Montana and the United States in 1889 and unchanged since then; and

WHEREAS, a contract, compact or treaty must be implemented consistent with the terms and understandings in place at the time entered into.

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED by the undersigned members of the 60th Montana Legislature as follows:

1. That any form of "collective rights" holding by the Court in Heller will offend the Compact; and

2. That the Second Amendment and the Montana right to bear arms are both statements securing a preexisting right from government interference, and do not confer any boon of government upon the people; and

3. The level of review for the Montana right to bear arms and for the Second Amendment are specified within those declared rights -- "shall not be infringed" for the Second Amendment, and "shall not be called in question" for the Montana right to bear arms;

4. Montana reserves all usual rights and remedies under historic contract law if its Compact should be violated by any "collective rights" holding in Heller;
5. The undersigned incorporate by reference here a more thorough, attached explanation of the contract argument advanced; and

6. The undersigned legislators appreciate the attention of the Court to this argument on behalf of Montana and its citizens.

Supporting argument

Elected officials in concurrence:

Current list




to prove breach and dissolve contract.

[Sandra]

Bump

[garyallen59]

bump

[phoenixzorn]

So the Montana Secretary of State is agreeing to secession if the second amendment is ruled against by the Supreme Court. The most militia minded state in the union, and they thought they would stay if ya take their guns away?


http://www.progunleaders.org

I wish a bit of the shock of this would make it to Wisconsin and light a few fires under the asses of the people here, but we have this insulator stopping it called Minnesota... Most people in Wisconsin won't even notice if Montana Secedes....

[nosebruise]

I support secession. I live in Texas now, but am from Wyoming. If Montana decided to secede (I don't actually see that language anywhere in the provided link), I would hope that Wyoming would agree to secede as well. I could see Wyoming seceding before Texas (even though there would definitely be and are a lot of Texans who want to secede now).

if the ball ever actually started rolling on this i'd move straight back to TX. Lone Star State FTW.

[acptulsa]

Wisconsin has more insulation than Minnesota--what about the Dakotas?

Speaking of the Dakotas, or more precisely the Lakota Sioux, I expect that if Montana does secede, it will quickly grow.

[Anyeong]

Did any of y'all go to school?

Don't you remember at the beginning of every school day where you would stand up by your desk, place your right hand over your heart, and say "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"?

The majority of the people would react as though a state trying to secede is treason to the rest of the US through this little pledge that has been drilled into their heads since early childhood.

That being said, I was home-schooled since 4th grade and haven't had to deal with it :).

GO MONTANA!

Believe it or not, kids across America don't even put their hands on their chest nor chant the pledge anymore in the mornings, sometimes they don't even stand up and teachers don't do anything about it. I've been to so many schools because of moving, and it seems it's not a cool thing anymore, like as if people just don't care about it enough to lift their hands and open their mouths to utter at least a few words, something that they probably feel ashamed of doing since it was something they did when they were little.

[jumpyg1258]

Don't you remember at the beginning of every school day where you would stand up by your desk, place your right hand over your heart, and say "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"?

Why not ask our leaders to honestly follow the pledges they have made? I mean look at what George Bush has done with his pledge to uphold and defend the Constitution!

[Sandra]

Or, it was something we did when it meant something.

[Drknows]

Montana = Kosovo ?

Yeah i dont think they will approve. :D

[ButchHowdy]

I can finally have my Floss Farm and live amongst the Paulites!!

[wv@SC]

Bump!

[acptulsa]

I can finally have my Floss Farm and live amongst the Paulites!!

Damn, you're right! I've gotta get my tweezers encrusted! Anyone have some zircon they can spare?

[ionlyknowy]

its almost like all these school shooting etc are made to scare the people so they willingly turn in their guns.....well im in mass...if vermont jumps ship ill move to vermont...thank god for these states

actually, all of these school shootings makes me want to start carrying my gun to school for protection.

I think that if someone is old enough to carry then they should be able to carry the gun concealed at college or professional school. Maybe not courthouses or airports, but def. schools in light of all of these shootings.

[Knightskye]

with liberty and justice for all

Exactly. That's why we need the 2nd Amendment.

[ionlyknowy]

if the ball ever actually started rolling on this i'd move straight back to TX. Lone Star State FTW.

awesome, I moved to san diego from Texas also! What part of Texas are you from... Dallas here.

[emilysdad]

... The next step in the slippery slope will be a regulation of ammunition sales and production


The National Rifle Association, which has for the past 20 years presented itself as the nation's premier resource for defending your 2nd amendment rights, has completely missed the larger issue: that the same bill (which would perform an 'end run' around the 2nd amendment) has been proposed in EIGHT states (Maryland, Illinois, Indiana, Mississippi, Hawaii, Tennessee, PA and AZ)



be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona :

Section 1. Title 41, chapter 12, article 5, Arizona Revised
Statutes, is amended by adding section 41-1772, to read:
START_STATUTE41-1772. Ammunition coding system database; sale of
ammunition; tax; fund; civil penalty; violation; classification;
definition
A. Beginning january 1, 2009, a manufacturer shall code all handgun
and ASSAULT weapon AMMUNITION that is manufactured or sold in this
state. This section applies to all calibers.
b. Beginning january 1, 2011, a private citizen or a retail vendor
shall dispose of all noncoded AMMUNITION that is owned or held by
the citizen or vendor.
c. The department shall establish and maintain an ammunition coding
system database containing a manufacturer registry and a vendor
registry.
D. A manufacturer shall:
1. Register with the department in a manner prescribed by the
department by rule.
2. Maintain records on the business premises for at least seven
years concerning all sales, loans and transfers of ammunition to,
from or within this state.
3. Encode ammunition provided for retail sale for regulated
firearms in a manner that the director establishes so that:
(a) The base of the bullet and the inside of the cartridge casing
of each round in a box of ammunition are coded with the same serial
number.
(b) Each serial number is engraved in such a manner that it is
highly likely to permit identification after ammunition discharge
and bullet impact.
(c) The outside of each box of ammunition is labeled with the name
of the manufacturer and the same serial number used on the cartridge
casings and bases of bullets contained in the box.
4. Pay the tax levied by subsection I of this section.
E. A manufacturer shall not label ammunition contained in one
ammunition box with the same serial number as the ammunition
contained in another ammunition box that is produced by the same
manufacturer.
F. A vendor shall:
1. Register with the department in a manner prescribed by the
department by rule.
2. Record the following information in a format prescribed by the
department:
(a) The date of the transaction.
(b) The name of the purchaser.
(c) The purchaser's driver license number or other government
issued identification card number.
(d) The date of birth of the purchaser.
(e) the unique identifier of all handgun ammunition or bullets
transferred.
(f) All other information prescribed by the department.
3. Maintain records on the business premises for at least three
years after the date of the recorded purchase.
G. The department shall establish the ammunition coding system
database within the framework of any existing firearms databases.
H. Access to information in the ammunition coding system database
is reserved for law enforcement personnel. The department shall
only release information in connection with a criminal investigation.
I. A tax of one-half cent is levied on each bullet or round of
ammunition that is sold in this state. The department of revenue
shall collect the tax and deposit the tax, pursuant to sections 35-
146 and 35-147, in the coded ammunition fund established by
subsection J of this section.
J. The coded ammunition fund is established consisting of monies
deposited pursuant to subsection I of this section. The department
shall administer the fund. Subject to legislative appropriation,
monies in the fund shall be used for the purpose of establishing and
maintaining the ammunition coding system database prescribed by this
section.
K. a manufacturer that fails to comply with this section is subject
to a civil penalty of not more than one THOUSAND dollars for the
first violation, not more than five thousand dollars for a second
violation and not more than ten thousand dollars for any subsequent
violation.
L. a vendor who knowingly fails to comply with this section or who
knowingly falsifies the records REQUIRED to be kept by this section
is guilty of a class 3 misdemeanor.
M. a person who knowingly destroys, obliterates or otherwise
renders unreadable the coding REQUIRED by this section is guilty of
a class 3 misdemeanor.
N. for the purposes of this section, "code or coded" means a unique
identifier that has been APPLIED by etching onto the base of a
bullet or ammunition projectile. END_STATUTE
Sec. 2. Requirements for enactment; two-thirds vote
Pursuant to article IX, section 22, Constitution of Arizona, this
act is effective only on the affirmative vote of at least two-thirds
of the members of each house of the legislature and is effective
immediately on the signature of the governor or, if the governor
vetoes this act, on the subsequent affirmative vote of at least
three-fourths of the members of each house of the legislature.
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?
inDoc=/legtext/48leg/2r/bills/hb2833p.htm

[LibertiORDeth]

Ugh.. the pledge.. I had a group of first graders the other day (i'm a den leader for cub scouts) and asked them what the pledge meant. Noone knew. I asked what form of government we have? (it's stated in the pledge) Noone knew, except for one parent (got it spot-on, Constitutional Republic). Also asked if anyone knew what liberty meant. No clue. One parent said freedom, but then I went on to explain that it's much more than a word, it's a philosophy. And I tried to explain as best I could to a group of 6-year olds the philosophy of self-ownership & liberty. Ugh..

Anyways, I think this is where we need to try to make a difference. If you have children, get involved for craps sake and help "uneducate" these kids before we have another generation like our own. :)

Heck I'm in Boy Scouts and THEY don't even know anything about our government. I think I might try that, ask them if they know what form of government we have.

[Carole]

Along with about 20 other states considering secession. :)

Vermont seems most serious about it. Maybe part of California. Southwestern states interested.

[Carole]

Well, the last line has been trashed in America, so the rest of it is rather meaningless also.

"..with liberty and justice for all."

[nbhadja]

I hope they will actually do it.

[lynnf]

I'm reminded of a line from the movie "True Grit"

"That's bold talk from a one-eyed fat man."

just a lot of hot air!


lynn

[ZzzImAsleep]

I've only ever driven through Montana. What a massive state.......

Maybe this country needs another civil war.......

[pdavis]

If only the Free State Project could be more successful and push for a similar strategy.

In the mean time maybe we need to work on a new, viral pledge of allegiance?

Ian and Mark from Free Talk Live (http://www.freetalklive.com), both of whom are members of the Free State Project, have talked about and are in full support of secession.

[krott5333]

if this is true, I know where I'm moving!

[alaric]

So the Montana Secretary of State is agreeing to secession if the second amendment is ruled against by the Supreme Court. The most militia minded state in the union, and they thought they would stay if ya take their guns away?


http://www.progunleaders.org

this is great news! I know Vermont will join (see secession.net) and it is a law passed in Arizona legislature that it will secede if the 2nd amendment is abolished.

[alaric]

I'm reminded of a line from the movie "True Grit"

"That's bold talk from a one-eyed fat man."

just a lot of hot air!


lynn

except the one-eyed fat man proceeded to blow the bad guys all away!:D

[jsu718]

You know, I bet Russia would recognize Montana as its own country.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

You all got to go to this link!!!!

http://www.blacktable.com/tyer040826.htm

If you think Montana wont be the first to seceed this time, this will wake you up!!


#6. We Got Your WMD Right Here, Buddy.

If Montana were to secede from the union to become its own sovereign nation (and don't push us, man, we'll do it), we would instantly become the world's fourth-largest (known) nuclear power. Innocuous white concrete bunkers sprouted in fields and valleys across 23,000 acres of central Montana contain some 200 Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missiles equipped with nuclear warheads and watched over by 55 "missileers" of the Air Force's 341st Space Wing. Don't mess with Texas? We've got three words for the Lone Star State: Bring. It. On.

That sounds more like one reason why Montana's going nowhere.

[syborius]

Did any of y'all go to school?

Don't you remember at the beginning of every school day where you would stand up by your desk, place your right hand over your heart, and say "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"?

The majority of the people would react as though a state trying to secede is treason to the rest of the US through this little pledge that has been drilled into their heads since early childhood.

That being said, I was home-schooled since 4th grade and haven't had to deal with it :).

GO MONTANA!


Interesting perspective, but we really will see a ground swell of support for this once they start screwing with limits on gun rights.

[utrunner07]

I'm in SC - we did it once, we can do it again.
Ron Paul can be our Jefferson Davis!

obviously you don't know anything about Jefferson Davis...

[Sandra]

The states considering secession were the ones Ron Paul did well in.

[Sandra]

Bump

[Join The Paul Side]

Kudos to all these legislators letting the Federal Government know that if they try to screw around with the 2nd Ammendment then they face the possibility of states seceding from the union.

Kind of reminds me of V for Vendetta when they refered to us as The Former United States. :D

[clintontj72]

Woohoo Montana!!!

[Sandra]

Texas is mad as hell about the Trans Texas Corridor that is going through Texas to Canada. Is the Corridor going through Montana?

[NEPA_Revolution]

Yay Montana!!!

[Redmenace]

Texas is mad as hell about the Trans Texas Corridor that is going through Texas to Canada. Is the Corridor going through Montana?

I think it proposed to go through the Dakotas.

[Feelgood]

Illegal and won't happen. The only state that can secede if it chose to, is Texas. No other state has that right. So if all else fails, we all move to Texas, kick out the illegal, and secede from the US. THEN we can stop the NAFTA super highway, since we will have our own country. :D

[the_bee]

:D
Illegal and won't happen. The only state that can secede if it chose to, is Texas. No other state has that right. So if all else fails, we all move to Texas, kick out the illegal, and secede from the US. THEN we can stop the NAFTA super highway, since we will have our own country. :D



:D
Lets do it how do we get Texas to secede?

wy is Texas the only state that can secede?
:D

[Flash]

:D



:D
Lets do it how do we get Texas to secede?

wy is Texas the only state that can secede?
:D

I believe its in their state constitution that they can secede. But I'm pretty sure any state can secede, I highly doubt America will launch an open war on Montana if it chooses secession.

[Sandra]

State secession would be next to impossible to stop. The logistics to intervene would be fruitless as military personel would scatter on loyalty.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

Idaho, Washington, Oregon, and Alaska

[Sandra]

Anyway how can the US negate a Constitutional law, then proclaim secession illegal. The Constitution gives states the right to make their own laws.

[Sandra]

I wonder if Louisiana (Sportsman's Paradise) will faire if our legislature backs up the repeal of the second amendment? How are they ever gonna get guns from Louisiana citizens? Who are they gonna get to take them from them?

[literatim]

Illegal and won't happen. The only state that can secede if it chose to, is Texas. No other state has that right. So if all else fails, we all move to Texas, kick out the illegal, and secede from the US. THEN we can stop the NAFTA super highway, since we will have our own country. :D

The Constitution is a contract between the States, they can secede anytime they want.

[idiom]

Illegal and won't happen. The only state that can secede if it chose to, is Texas. No other state has that right. So if all else fails, we all move to Texas, kick out the illegal, and secede from the US. THEN we can stop the NAFTA super highway, since we will have our own country. :D

Texas can Walk away without cause.

Montana is stating that repealing the Second amendment violates the original compact and so the Federal government is dissolving the Compact via bad faith.

The U.S.A. is kicking Montana out :P

[kirkblitz]

states can secede legally, the only reason the south was stopped was because they lost militarily. new england states were threatening to secede as earlier as the 1810's. I really dont see how ANYONE can question the constituionality of it when west point taught it up until 1860 as being the correct thing to do.

[davidkachel]

I wonder if Louisiana (Sportsman's Paradise) will faire if our legislature backs up the repeal of the second amendment? How are they ever gonna get guns from Louisiana citizens? Who are they gonna get to take them from them?

Your question was answered after Katrina. Don't you remember? The "authorities" went around grabbing everyone's guns. No one fired a shot.

[davidkachel]

The Constitution is a contract between the States, they can secede anytime they want.

Yeah. And all those treaties with the Indians will be honored too.

There is a huge difference between the government we believe (wish) we have and the one we actually have.

[kirkblitz]

Texas v. White 1869
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White


The main rationale for the argument that states could not legally secede was derived from the Articles of Confederation's description of the American Union as perpetual. This, combined with the current Constitution's expressed goal of creating a more perfect Union, suggested that the United States was now more perfectly perpetual. Also cited was the statement in Article Four of the United States Constitution that "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government."


http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html#South%20Carolina
South Carolina

[Copied by Justin Sanders from J.A. May & J.R. Faunt, *South Carolina Secedes* (U. of S. Car. Pr, 1960), pp. 76-81.]
Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

And now the State of South Carolina having resumed her separate and equal place among nations, deems it due to herself, to the remaining United States of America, and to the nations of the world, that she should declare the immediate causes which have led to this act.

In the year 1765, that portion of the British Empire embracing Great Britain, undertook to make laws for the government of that portion composed of the thirteen American Colonies. A struggle for the right of self-government ensued, which resulted, on the 4th of July, 1776, in a Declaration, by the Colonies, "that they are, and of right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; and that, as free and independent States, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do."

They further solemnly declared that whenever any "form of government becomes destructive of the ends for which it was established, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new government." Deeming the Government of Great Britain to have become destructive of these ends, they declared that the Colonies "are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved."

In pursuance of this Declaration of Independence, each of the thirteen States proceeded to exercise its separate sovereignty; adopted for itself a Constitution, and appointed officers for the administration of government in all its departments-- Legislative, Executive and Judicial. For purposes of defense, they united their arms and their counsels; and, in 1778, they entered into a League known as the Articles of Confederation, whereby they agreed to entrust the administration of their external relations to a common agent, known as the Congress of the United States, expressly declaring, in the first Article "that each State retains its sovereignty, freedom and independence, and every power, jurisdiction and right which is not, by this Confederation, expressly delegated to the United States in Congress assembled."

Under this Confederation the war of the Revolution was carried on, and on the 3rd of September, 1783, the contest ended, and a definite Treaty was signed by Great Britain, in which she acknowledged the independence of the Colonies in the following terms: "ARTICLE 1-- His Britannic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz: New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be FREE, SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that he treats with them as such; and for himself, his heirs and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof."

Thus were established the two great principles asserted by the Colonies, namely: the right of a State to govern itself; and the right of a people to abolish a Government when it becomes destructive of the ends for which it was instituted. And concurrent with the establishment of these principles, was the fact, that each Colony became and was recognized by the mother Country a FREE, SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT STATE.

In 1787, Deputies were appointed by the States to revise the Articles of Confederation, and on 17th September, 1787, these Deputies recommended for the adoption of the States, the Articles of Union, known as the Constitution of the United States.

The parties to whom this Constitution was submitted, were the several sovereign States; they were to agree or disagree, and when nine of them agreed the compact was to take effect among those concurring; and the General Government, as the common agent, was then invested with their authority.

If only nine of the thirteen States had concurred, the other four would have remained as they then were-- separate, sovereign States, independent of any of the provisions of the Constitution. In fact, two of the States did not accede to the Constitution until long after it had gone into operation among the other eleven; and during that interval, they each exercised the functions of an independent nation.

By this Constitution, certain duties were imposed upon the several States, and the exercise of certain of their powers was restrained, which necessarily implied their continued existence as sovereign States. But to remove all doubt, an amendment was added, which declared that the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people. On the 23d May , 1788, South Carolina, by a Convention of her People, passed an Ordinance assenting to this Constitution, and afterwards altered her own Constitution, to conform herself to the obligations she had undertaken.

Thus was established, by compact between the States, a Government with definite objects and powers, limited to the express words of the grant. This limitation left the whole remaining mass of power subject to the clause reserving it to the States or to the people, and rendered unnecessary any specification of reserved rights.

We hold that the Government thus established is subject to the two great principles asserted in the Declaration of Independence; and we hold further, that the mode of its formation subjects it to a third fundamental principle, namely: the law of compact. We maintain that in every compact between two or more parties, the obligation is mutual; that the failure of one of the contracting parties to perform a material part of the agreement, entirely releases the obligation of the other; and that where no arbiter is provided, each party is remitted to his own judgment to determine the fact of failure, with all its consequences.

In the present case, that fact is established with certainty. We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.

The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."

This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.

The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.

The ends for which the Constitution was framed are declared by itself to be "to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity."

These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the *forms* [emphasis in the original] of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.

The guaranties of the Constitution will then no longer exist; the equal rights of the States will be lost. The slaveholding States will no longer have the power of self-government, or self-protection, and the Federal Government will have become their enemy.

Sectional interest and animosity will deepen the irritation, and all hope of remedy is rendered vain, by the fact that public opinion at the North has invested a great political error with the sanction of more erroneous religious belief.

We, therefore, the People of South Carolina, by our delegates in Convention assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, have solemnly declared that the Union heretofore existing between this State and the other States of North America, is dissolved, and that the State of South Carolina has resumed her position among the nations of the world, as a separate and independent State; with full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do.

read any of the seceding states declaration of secession during the 60's and they will cite why they can leave. If secession is legal then how is America legal in itself when its not legal to leave England? Denying secession is denying America itself.

[Sandra]

Actually the gun grab was unsucessful. From what we saw it's impossible to get someone to turn over a firearm while in their home. If they walked downtown with it showing it was easier to take it.

[Sandra]

Some idiots did just that though. Went walking around NO with a handgun's butt poking out of their pocket.

[JoshLowry]

“If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.”

thomas paine

Great quote.

[virginiakid]

Article 4, Section 4 -US Constitution.

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion, and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened), against domestic violence.

Amendment 9-

The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Amendment X-
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Virginia Constitution -

Section 3. Government instituted for common benefit.

That government is, or ought to be, instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation, or community; of all the various modes and forms of government, that is best which is capable of producing the greatest degree of happiness and safety, and is most effectually secured against the danger of maladministration; and, whenever any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, inalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter, or abolish it, in such manner as shall be judged most conducive to the public weal.

[literatim]

Yeah. And all those treaties with the Indians will be honored too.

There is a huge difference between the government we believe (wish) we have and the one we actually have.

Who exactly is going to stop a State from seceding?

[Kotin]

but how can Texas secede with such a corrupt governor in Rick"Rapes Your Land" Perry?

[kirkblitz]

only problems i see with states seceding are

1-stupid population
2- stupid legilature
3- stupid military who would think its unconstituitonal
4- stop fed goverment


just stupid people

[Joe3113]

What's the bet that if a state announces it is succeeding, that it will not be covered in the MSM?

[virginiakid]

only problems i see with states seceding are

1-stupid population
2- stupid legilature
3- stupid military who would think its unconstituitonal
4- stop fed goverment


just stupid people

What's so stupid about wanting Liberty?

[nate895]

Did any of y'all go to school?

Don't you remember at the beginning of every school day where you would stand up by your desk, place your right hand over your heart, and say "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"?

The majority of the people would react as though a state trying to secede is treason to the rest of the US through this little pledge that has been drilled into their heads since early childhood.

That being said, I was home-schooled since 4th grade and haven't had to deal with it :).

GO MONTANA!

I actually stay silent when those the "one nation" and "indivisible" are uttered at school.

I am going to recruit some people from around here if Montana decides to secede if the Feds want to get involved, who is with me?

[virginiakid]

What's the bet that if a state announces it is succeeding, that it will not be covered in the MSM?

They'll cover it because the the President of the US would send the whole Military to beat them back into submission like they did during the WBTS.

[kirkblitz]

What's so stupid about wanting Liberty?

no im saying stupid people would prevent it.

example which will use 3 random names of random people

jim- the federal goverment is best for us all, they are always right

john- seccesion is legal, the federal goverment isnt always right

jane- seccesionists are traitors, the constitution doesnt mean anything it was written by old racist white men.

2 vs 1. who wins in a 3 person vote?

[Sarge]

I am glad to see AZ backing the right of the people to carry guns in their Amicus Brief.

Our AZ Constitution gave us that right.

It is going to now come down to the SC to say if the Constitution is worth the paper it is written on anymore.

The briefs filed, give a clue to the importance of this issue. The SC had better do this one right.

It would be like the first shot across the bow, if they say the people can not own guns.

I am guessing, an adverse ruling would be like nothing they have ever seen before. Swift and fast on the reaction.

The people are not going to give up their weapons, and it will not be like in New Orleans this time if there is an adverse ruling.

Just my opinion.

[Redmenace]

They'll cover it because the the President of the US would send the whole Military to beat them back into submission like they did during the WBTS.

Evrywhere I hear the sound of marching, charging feet, boy
cause summers here and the time is right for fighting in the street, boy
But what can a poor boy do
Except to sing for a rock n roll band
cause in sleepy london town
Theres just no place for a street fighting man
No

Hey! think the time is right for a palace revolution
But where I live the game to play is compromise solution
Well, then what can a poor boy do
Except to sing for a rock n roll band
cause in sleepy london town
Theres no place for a street fighting man
No

Hey! said my name is called disturbance
Ill shout and scream, Ill kill the king, Ill rail at all his servants
Well, what can a poor boy do
Except to sing for a rock n roll band
cause in sleepy london town
Theres no place for a street fighting man
No

[kirkblitz]

anyone know how long it will take for them to rule on this?

[nate895]

anyone know how long it will take for them to rule on this?

Probably in late June to July.

[kirkblitz]

of course, just in time for the summer campaigns lol

[gracebkr]

Montana was my destination for retirement, shit, I may be on the way next week! Yeee hawww!

[tpreitzel]

So the Montana Secretary of State is agreeing to secession if the second amendment is ruled against by the Supreme Court. The most militia minded state in the union, and they thought they would stay if ya take their guns away?


http://www.progunleaders.org

Right, Montana is the only really viable state for liberty loving secessionists. For some reasons, Montana is psychologically engraved in the minds of most Americans are a safe haven from tyranny whether true or not.

[kirkblitz]

isnt montana always where people survive nuclear wars in movies?

[abruzz0]

Montana sounds good to me

[tpreitzel]

isnt montana always where people survive nuclear wars in movies?

Forget the movies. Montana, Wyoming, and the Dakotas still have quite a few nuclear missile silos, i.e. ICBMs. However, Montana is so huge that you can escape any real danger by relocating to other locations if needed, e.g. west of the Continental Divide.

[Dave Wood]

You all know.....Aimee Allen the actress/model/singer/songwriter who made that tune about Ron Paul Revolution, guess where she grew up? Montana;)

Growing up in remote Missoula, Montana, Allen relied on diverse influences to help her through an adventurous childhood. It's a skewed ancestral tree, but you can connect the dots to Allen by tracing what she listened to growing up; Eazy E Beastie Boys --Janis Joplin -- Patti Smith The Pixies. And later Jeff Buckley, Ani DiFranco and Tom Waits. "And I love Ricki Lee Jones," she says. "I have a vivid memory of going through my parent's record collection and discovering her music for the first time."

[nate895]

Think that Montana would put it on the ballot, or call the traditional convention to decide the matter. I hope convention.

[quickmike]

Secession would be the best thing that could happen in this country. The grand experiment has failed and its time to get back to independance. Ive given up any hope that we can become free with a federal government in place, and to expect it to shrink itself is just foolishness. I hope they do try taking their guns away so they have every excuse to get out of this shithole pact that we call the United States.

[nate895]

Secession would be the best thing that could happen in this country. The grand experiment has failed and its time to get back to independance. Ive given up any hope that we can become free with a federal government in place, and to expect it to shrink itself is just foolishness. I hope they do try taking their guns away so they have every excuse to get out of this shithole pact that we call the United States.

The interest of the different regions are divergent as well. The only way to have this country full of liberty and prosperity is to return fully to the Constitution, and soon, or to take separate paths as regions, as the majority of states wouldn't be able to survive on their own.

[Mystile]

Secession would be the best thing that could happen in this country. The grand experiment has failed and its time to get back to independance. Ive given up any hope that we can become free with a federal government in place, and to expect it to shrink itself is just foolishness. I hope they do try taking their guns away so they have every excuse to get out of this shithole pact that we call the United States.

Oh they will:) Hillary or Obama would definitely go after our guns.

[Richie]

The interest of the different regions are divergent as well. The only way to have this country full of liberty and prosperity is to return fully to the Constitution, and soon, or to take separate paths as regions, as the majority of states wouldn't be able to survive on their own.

You're 100% correct, my friend. You know - when I first heard people talk about going back to the Articles of Confederation, I disagreed. Now I'm warming up to the idea. That's how you would keep the states sovereign, but together.

[MalcolmGandi]

America.... f%@k yeah.

[nate895]

You're 100% correct, my friend. You know - when I first heard people talk about going back to the Articles of Confederation, I disagreed. Now I'm warming up to the idea. That's how you would keep the states sovereign, but together.

The only problem with the Articles of Confederation is the 9/13 majority needed to pass regular legislation, that is all IMO. Also, some way to get enough money to have a military would be nice. Militias are nice, but cannot stand on their own in the modern day.

[american.swan]

Please calm down. You know full well that if one state really leaves the union the media won't discuss it and no one else in the country will even know about it.

:) But I am all for Montana!!!

[american.swan]

Well the rumor I heard was that the southern army never gave up...they just moved to Montana.

[clintontj72]

Oh they will:) Hillary or Obama would definitely go after our guns.

They'd bring out Ol' Janet Reno and sick her ugly butt on us to take the guns...probably burn whole towns and cities if they had to...just to make a point :P. Of course after they burned the cities they would just claim that the cities were filthier than Sodom and Gomorrah and were filled with people who married and raped underage sewer rats :D

[american.swan]

Montana just needs to find some way to nuke the CFR and most of our current traitors in government then rejoin the union. :)

[faraway]

Ugh.. the pledge.. I had a group of first graders the other day (i'm a den leader for cub scouts) and asked them what the pledge meant. Noone knew. I asked what form of government we have? (it's stated in the pledge) Noone knew, except for one parent (got it spot-on, Constitutional Republic). Also asked if anyone knew what liberty meant. No clue. One parent said freedom, but then I went on to explain that it's much more than a word, it's a philosophy. And I tried to explain as best I could to a group of 6-year olds the philosophy of self-ownership & liberty. Ugh..

Anyways, I think this is where we need to try to make a difference. If you have children, get involved for craps sake and help "uneducate" these kids before we have another generation like our own. :)

Hi all,

Regarding the philosophy of Liberty, I found this the other day and I think its AWESOME. Its a fairly brief Flash presentation. Sorry if its been discussed already, if not, it should be spread far and wide (well, actually its been translated into umpteen languages already)

I hope you like it

http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PhilosophyOfLiberty-english_music.swf

[kirkblitz]

i am curious if montana would really go through with it, i hope they would be would they really? I dont see them expelling federal people from their state, just writing a strong protest.

[nate895]

i am curious if montana would really go through with it, i hope they would be would they really? I dont see them expelling federal people from their state, just writing a strong protest.

If they went through secession, they are a foreign country, I assume they will act as such.

[Sandra]

Admins! States are threatening to secede if the second amendment is apppealed in late spring ! Don't you think this is a little too big to be moved here? This is important breaking news that will affect other states and you BURY it!? Please put this back at Grassroots, it's hit 15 pages in just three hours!

[CurtisLow]

Admins! States are threatening to secede if the second amendment is apppealed in late spring ! Don't you think this is a little too big to be moved here? This is important breaking news that will affect other states and you BURY it!? Please put this back at Grassroots, it's hit 15 pages in just three hours!

I had the same thing happen to my very important post too.. = BS

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=119975

So much to try to get information out there...

[VaderM5]

this is great news! I know Vermont will join (see secession.net) and it is a law passed in Arizona legislature that it will secede if the 2nd amendment is abolished.

Great! So if they secede, McPain can't be president of the united states, right? :D

[fedup100]

the problem with secession is the violence that will ensue. This will no longer be bloodless...........I really dont want to see that happen in my childs lifetime.

It is already in the stars for your child whether you want it or not, it's either that or your child will live all the days of their life on their knees kissing the ass of the NWO.

Montana is booming because those in the know, who couldn't move out of country are moving in to Montana.

[Pauls' Revere]

Oh, Texas will be on that bandwagon, too--and maybe a couple of close neighbors with them.

Texas is even on it's own power grid separate from the rest of the nation which is either western (west of the mississippi or Eastern, East of the Mississippi). Gotta love Texas.

[fedup100]

Great! So if they secede, McPain can't be president of the united states, right? :D

Hope they do and we can pull the Lakota's and other states into it, then.....

guess who we CAN elect as the new Federations President.........PAUL!

[Pauls' Revere]

So the Montana Secretary of State is agreeing to secession if the second amendment is ruled against by the Supreme Court. The most militia minded state in the union, and they thought they would stay if ya take their guns away?


http://www.progunleaders.org

When will this ruling take place...I must stay informed! I'll move to Montana and help protect thier border.

[fedup100]

Texas is mad as hell about the Trans Texas Corridor that is going through Texas to Canada. Is the Corridor going through Montana?

I promise you it won't go through Montana and being a Texan, it won't go through there without bloodshed. Texas is lost to the Mexicans. Texas is a hostile landscape to try and survive off the land.

WA State /Oregon is the most ideal places to make a stand and to be self sufficient. Don't believe the poster about Wa State, it is paradise. Montana/ Wyoming is second choice and the most likely choice, they are pro freedom and most of the population is informed and armed. Wyoming sheriffs sued the IRS and won. The IRS cannot enter Wyoming without approval of a sheriff and that's not likely.

As far as the fed gov responding to secession.........if they can't handle Baghdad, what the hell are they gonna do with several million pissed off Americans that will have support from many varied countries and many people in other states. The time is now.....we need Paul to be the leader and set it up properly with gold and silver and a true organic constitution.

Now, things are getting interesting.

[fedup100]

Believe it or not, kids across America don't even put their hands on their chest nor chant the pledge anymore in the mornings, sometimes they don't even stand up and teachers don't do anything about it. I've been to so many schools because of moving, and it seems it's not a cool thing anymore, like as if people just don't care about it enough to lift their hands and open their mouths to utter at least a few words, something that they probably feel ashamed of doing since it was something they did when they were little.

The only treason being committed is the fed gov if it tries to breach its contract with a state and impose gun control on that state. There is so much treason going on in the current administration it is stunning,

[CurtisLow]

I promise you it won't go through Montana and being a Texan, it won't go through there without bloodshed. Texas is lost to the Mexicans. Texas is a hostile landscape to try and survive off the land.

WA State /Oregon is the most ideal places to make a stand and to be self sufficient. Don't believe the poster about Wa State, it is paradise. Montana/ Wyoming is second choice and the most likely choice, they are pro freedom and most of the population is informed and armed. Wyoming sheriffs sued the IRS and won. The IRS cannot enter Wyoming without approval of a sheriff and that's not likely.

As far as the fed gov responding to secession.........if they can't handle Baghdad, what the hell are they gonna do with several million pissed off Americans that will have support from many varied countries and many people in other states. The time is now.....we need Paul to be the leader and set it up properly with gold and silver and a true organic constitution.

Now, things are getting interesting.

What about Maine or NH?

[Flash]

http://www.republicofnh.org/ New Hampshire independence site (seems to be run by a RP fan if you look at his beliefs)

http://www.vermontrepublic.org/

[fedup100]

What about Maine or NH?

There is no serious movement in those states to do what Montana is threatening to do. NH primary has soured me on that state for sure. Vermont is beautiful but really too small. I believe if Montana does this, you will see a mass exodus of people to Montana. I mean it could be as large as 5 million. That will require a large area of land, Vermont does not have that. Montana was offering free land in the Eastern section, I bet that is all gone. Darn!!

Lot of Gris in Montana, I don't like Bears, but prefer that to rattlesnakes, killer bee's and Tornado's.....no Texas for me, I had 30 years of that heat and misery, no thanks.

Should this happen, how will they receive food and other needs like supplies, cars, furniture, steel, pet supplies, feed and farm supplies, clothes etc: from the other states, everything will be upside down and not business as usual. That is why I favor a place with good weather, lots of water and fish and wild fruits and berries. The Pacific Northwest is the best but is currently occupied by tree huggers, neocons and fascists.

[Sandra]

There is no serious movement in those states to do what Montana is threatening to do. NH primary has soured me on that state for sure. Vermont is beautiful but really too small. I believe if Montana does this, you will see a mass exodus of people to Montana. I mean it could be as large as 5 million. That will require a large area of land, Vermont does not have that. Montana was offering free land in the Eastern section, I bet that is all gone. Darn!!

Lot of Gris in Montana, I don't like Bears, but prefer that to rattlesnakes, killer bee's and Tornado's.....no Texas for me, I had 30 years of that heat and misery, no thanks.

Should this happen, how will they receive food and other needs like supplies, cars, furniture, steel, pet supplies, feed and farm supplies, clothes etc: from the other states, everything will be upside down and not business as usual. That is why I favor a place with good weather, lots of water and fish and wild fruits and berries. The Pacific Northwest is the best but is currently occupied by tree huggers, neocons and fascists.

Montana and Vermont conduct a great deal of trade with Canada.

[fedup100]

Montana and Vermont conduct a great deal of trade with Canada.

Couldn't Montana do the same since they border Canada? I think it would be necessary, but Canada could sanction them, after the fed gov demands it.....I mean embargo's like they have done to Cuba. That is why you need to be able to grow or make your basics for survival at first. It is hard to grow food in 6 feet of snow and 30 below.

[BuddyRey]

Did any of y'all go to school?

Don't you remember at the beginning of every school day where you would stand up by your desk, place your right hand over your heart, and say "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"?

The majority of the people would react as though a state trying to secede is treason to the rest of the US through this little pledge that has been drilled into their heads since early childhood.

That being said, I was home-schooled since 4th grade and haven't had to deal with it :).

GO MONTANA!

Yeah, the pledge written by a committed National Socialist, that school children used to recite while giving the Fascist salute made famous by the Nazis, instead of the right hand over the heart we're familiar with now.

Hehe...just had to throw that trivia in there.

[Sandra]

It would be necessary to enter into a coop with neighbors, but most small farmers do this anyway in rural areas. We used to have 4 gardens and raise pigs and chickens. Our neighbor had a grist mill and dairy. We wanted for no food except for coffee and sugar. Ya GOT to have coffee!

[FreeTraveler]

Yeah, the pledge written by a committed National Socialist, that school children used to recite while giving the Fascist salute made famous by the Nazis, instead of the right hand over the heart we're familiar with now.

Hehe...just had to throw that trivia in there.

...and before you start screaming, I can verify this.

[Cinderella]

this should be in grassroots!!!

i hope something like this happens....it would really wake up the country....if the msm gave it play

[Sandra]

I can't believe the forum buried this story! Now I'm beginning to wonder about this forum.

[snpage]

bump.

[chris198]

Very interesting, if anyone has any new news, post it. ~Bump~

[Laja]

i think psy ops is programming these brainwashed folks to go in and kill people so there's an excuse to take people's guns away.

[christagious]

This definitely deserves it's own sub-forum. The Secession Sub-Forum


I think I know where I"m moving. F--K South America, i'm going to Montana!!!

[nate895]

This definitely deserves it's own sub-forum. The Secession Sub-Forum


I think I know where I"m moving. F--K South America, i'm going to Montana!!!

Why would you go to South America, I didn't know of anyone suggesting that.

[Give me liberty]

If Montana was smart they should have voted ron paul.

[CurtisLow]

If Montana was smart they should have voted ron paul.

Good point!

[TC95]

Along with about 20 other states considering secession. :)

Vermont seems most serious about it. Maybe part of California. Southwestern states interested.


What states are considering secession? Is Missouri one of them? Please tell me Missouri is one of them.

[ChooseLiberty]

Anyone remember the John Titor time traveler story from a few years ago? This talk of succession sound like his scenario -

The US goes thru another civil war and breaks up into several regional governments.

It sounded far fetched then. Now, not so much.

[Sandra]

Bump

[crackyflipside]

Anyone remember the John Titor time traveler story from a few years ago? This talk of succession sound like his scenario -

The US goes thru another civil war and breaks up into several regional governments.

It sounded far fetched then. Now, not so much.

Now that you brought it up, it is almost humorous how things are turning out.

[davidkachel]

Who exactly is going to stop a State from seceding?

That question was last asked in 1860. The answer was A. Lincoln. I presume today's answer would be G. Bush.

To think the exact same thing wouldn't happen again constitutes a new world record in naivete.

[hbedford]

Does anyone have any other links about the other states that are considering secession? I did a quick search and only found links to blogs.

[maeqFREEDOMfree]

Kind of interesting how all of these lone gunmen have a history of psychiatric treatment and "erratic behavior" after being on medications?

I've thought the same thing! medications are being stressed everywhere you look for every "ailment" imaginable. i wonder if there's any correlation between prescribed medication numbers and violent crime on the rise

Montana rocks... i wish i lived in a state with enough cojones to tell the Feds to take their unconstitutional laws and shove 'em.

[NEPA_Revolution]

But what the hell is the US Govt going to do. Blow up Montana?

[Mach]

I never even heard of the Vermont secession, much less the Montana secession.... I never even heard of the mock Key West, Florida secession.........Thank You!

I have to say, not to be negative but I do see myself as a realist...... the Federal Government has lots of "insiders" inside of all the States, if anything like this even actually started to happen they would crush it before it got very far. Inside Job!

Here is the Q & A (Second Vermont Republic)

http://info.interactivist.net/node/3934

Article.... June 2007

http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2007/06/03/in_vermont_nascent_secession_movement_gains_tracti on/

[CurtisLow]

I see that Montana is in a RED zone.... Not good!

http://www.radmeters4u.com/list.htm

.

[nate895]

obviously you don't know anything about Jefferson Davis...

Hey, what's wrong with him?

[tamor]

When states signed to be a part if the USA, didn't they sign that they would not sucede ? I know that TX refused to remove the sucession clause from its constitution. Take a look at your state's constitution, and what it says about sucession.

[nate895]

When states signed to be a part if the USA, didn't they sign that they would not sucede ? I know that TX refused to remove the sucession clause from its constitution. Take a look at your state's constitution, and what it says about sucession.

Secession can be done by any state since they hold sovereignty, the Federal Government depends on the will of the states for its survival, and therefore no state can give up the right of secession.

[Sandra]

Non secession would not be possible to enforce. Military personell would be torn between loyalty to state and country.

[IcyPeaceMaker]

Each state is an individual soverign, and all are known as The United States.

Louisiana could use the same argument as Montana, here's the Louisiana Constitutional article dealing with The Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

§11. Right to Keep and Bear Arms

Section 11. The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged, but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to prohibit the carrying of weapons concealed on the person.

[nate895]

§11. Right to Keep and Bear Arms

Section 11. The right of each citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged, but this provision shall not prevent the passage of laws to prohibit the carrying of weapons concealed on the person.

I don't like the but in that sentence.

[Captain America]

uh oh! If Montana took concrete steps to seceed, I believe there are 3 others waiting to jump on that bandwagon (Vemont, Tenn, S.C.). I think this is a very dangerous time in this nations history, and it isnt because of "islamofascists" either.


if something like this happened the president would most likely place the rest of america in total police state control

[clouds]

if something like this happened the president would most likely place the rest of america in total police state control


haham perhaps that is the plan O_O

[heath.whiteaker]

if something like this happened the president would most likely place the rest of america in total police state control

De Ja Vu....

If Montana did this I would relocate in a hurry.... They would have a new citizen.

[Sandra]

President Bush himself sent a brief supporting the ban to the Supreme Court.

http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_8297300

[Sandra]

So Texas is now being told they must give up millions of acres of private land in order to build the Trans Texas corridor that will take business away from Texans. On top of that a ban on privately owned firearms is to take place shortly before. So this may be an attempt by the federal government to seize property with no resistance.

And they're trying this out in Texas? Are they crazy?

[christagious]

I have a feeling that Texas is on the verge of a revolution, they have plenty to be pissed about. You got wild immigration, the trans texas corridor and now the gov't trying to take away guns??

I guess them rednecks were right when they said "the South will rise again"

I'll be leaving Ohio when I find out a state decides to secede.

[CountryboyRonPaul]

"

I'll be leaving Ohio when I find out a state decides to secede.

The south would welcome you with open arms :D

Actually Louisiana would almost definately stay with the Federal Govt. in this sort of situation, we're fairly dependant on handouts... Even though we have more oil coming off of our coast than any other state.

[Sandra]

I don't think the federal government wants this thing to go peacefully. How pissed off will a Ron Paul rally goer be with him railing against these things. McCain backs each one of the measures that Texas is against, so a McCain victory would be exceptionally suspicious.

[Anti Federalist]

the problem with secession is the violence that will ensue. This will no longer be bloodless...........I really dont want to see that happen in my childs lifetime.

And the alternative is?

A lifetime of submission and slavery?

No thanks. It would be nice if we could peacefully "opt out" but our loving fedgov will never allow that to happen. It seems independence is only allowed for Kosovars.

So fuck 'em and keep your powder dry boys, the time is getting short.

[kyleAF]

But what the hell is the US Govt going to do. Blow up Montana?

Montana actually has a nuclear arsenal, which is something that the Confederate states definitely did not have.

Russia would probably love it if Montana seceded, because the nukes would likely be pointed at D.C. instead of Moscow. :cool::eek::rolleyes:

[kyleAF]

I see that Montana is in a RED zone.... Not good!

http://www.radmeters4u.com/list.htm

.

Yea, that's because of all of their silos there. Moscow probably wouldn't have that much to worry about once Montana isn't taking marching orders from D.C. though.

[jonahtrainer]

Why would you go to South America, I didn't know of anyone suggesting that.

I am headed to Argentina for March to look at some property. If you agree with the Peak Oil premise then Argentina is perhaps the best place, far better than Montana for several reasons, to be located based on a logically derived cause and effect future reality.

[Sandra]

I want to remain in the states and fight for what we're losing.

[DealzOnWheelz]

anyone who leaves the states when the battle gets thick is a coward and never deserved their freedom in the first place

[NEPA_Revolution]

I honestly hope there is another great secession, but it is almost un-imagineable what would happen after that. I mean would the US Govt declare war? If they did the next Confederacy would loose because lets face it, Al-Quida is better armed.

[Sandra]

More than likely the government will declare they screwed up and promises to be on the side of good from now on.

[LibertyRevolution]

Any state that tries to leave the union will be blamed on a terrorist take over of the state government.
The states communications would be turned off, key targets would be bombed, your local police would be fighting against you per orders from Washington, threw official only broadcasts on their controlled media. Military Personal from states that succeed from the union would be labeled as enemy combatants and detained or killed. You will have no one to help you accept other people that know the truth, the majority of the public will remain sheeple.

[kirkblitz]

i hope montana leaves, but would the national guard fight for or against their home state of montana? If the president nationalizes them who will they go with?

[Sandra]

In Montana? No WAY! The NG will side with Montana.

[familydog]

i hope montana leaves, but would the national guard fight for or against their home state of montana? If the president nationalizes them who will they go with?

Unfortunately the president has ultimate control over them if he/she wishes. They could always disobey, but constitutionally, the president has the power.

[Sandra]

If the second amendment is repealed, the Constitution is negated anyway. So much for the president's Constitutional rights.

[TrappedInSocialistSweden]

Go Montana!

[christagious]

anyone who leaves the states when the battle gets thick is a coward and never deserved their freedom in the first place

Good for you, you can stay. I'm not willing to die and miss out on the rest of my daughter's life. I'll just leave so that I can enjoy seeing my daughter grow. Call me a coward, but my daughter is more important than a piece of land.

[Sandra]

Good for you, you can stay. I'm not willing to die and miss out on the rest of my daughter's life. I'll just leave so that I can enjoy seeing my daughter grow. Call me a coward, but my daughter is more important than a piece of land.


And where pray tell will you go? "Going" requires planning. Immigration issues only apply to the US?

[fedup100]

anyone who leaves the states when the battle gets thick is a coward and never deserved their freedom in the first place


Uh.....the States left the people along time ago. This yearly conference of Governors in DC where the feds tell the Governors what they will do in each state is bullshit and will end or the States must face the people. Same for Mayors. They all go to DC each year and take their marching orders.

This is why we are all facing the same bullshit, red light cameras, toll roads etc;

This means the States are federalized.

[christagious]

Uh.....the States left the people along time ago.

Thank you

[christagious]

And where pray tell will you go? "Going" requires planning. Immigration issues only apply to the US?

I'm looking at either Argentina, Chile, or Costa Rica. Very easy to fall off the face of the earth in Latin America. Good luck extraditing me.

[BravoSix]

I have no problem with those that abandon a sinking ship. Each of us has to decide what is right for our ourselves and our own family.

With that said, I think choosing not to fight and trying to just run and hide is simply sentencing your kids, grandchildren, or great grandchildren to global slavery. You might be able to enjoy some freedom and anonymity, but it's a selfish move.

[Sandra]

I'm looking at either Argentina, Chile, or Costa Rica. Very easy to fall off the face of the earth in Latin America. Good luck extraditing me.


Oh for God's sake, I wasn't talking about extradition. Just how are you going to let the country of your choice ALLOW you in? It's deportation that would be your worry.

[christagious]

Oh for God's sake, I wasn't talking about extradition. Just how are you going to let the country of your choice ALLOW you in? It's deportation that would be your worry.

Oh for God's Sake? You're getting really worked up about this.

I'll get in, I have connections to some countries. Plus I can get a job teaching English in a Latin American country because I'm almost finished with school and I'm going for Spanish, Education, and ESL.

Anyways, if Montana secedes, which is what this thread is about, I'll be going there so I might not even have to worry about other countries.

[Carole]

I would never call secession treason. However, I would call the shenanigans of our leaders and government in recent years treason.

[Sandra]

When is the decision on the 2nd amendment being handed down?

[Deborah K]

I'm looking at either Argentina, Chile, or Costa Rica. Very easy to fall off the face of the earth in Latin America. Good luck extraditing me.

We're looking into Panama as part of our exit strategy, although we'd only do it if they institute conscription again. We have 4 eligible kids and 2 sons in law. We plan to stay and fight for our country's sovereignty, to fight against the impending NAU, but if the globalists win, then it won't matter where we go, goodbye individual countries, hello one world government.

[pinkmandy]

When is the decision on the 2nd amendment being handed down?

June according to the Yahoo article I read earlier today.

[Sandra]

In the AOL straw poll, Ron Paul has a huge lead over McCain. I'm wondering if states that seceded in the event of shut my mouth would have Ron Paul presiding over them.

[seapilot]

We're looking into Panama as part of our exit strategy, although we'd only do it if they institute conscription again. We have 4 eligible kids and 2 sons in law. We plan to stay and fight for our country's sovereignty, to fight against the impending NAU, but if the globalists win, then it won't matter where we go, goodbye individual countries, hello one world government.

Costa Rica is real nice, they are friendly to US citizens, have no military and around 50, 000 expats.

[Carole]

Vermont, Montana, San Fernando Valley portion of California, New York City form the State, Tennessee, Lakota Nation, Northeast Philadelphia from Philadelphia, South Carolina, Alaska, Cascadia, Louisiana, New Hampshire. I think Hawaii. League of the South Cahpters-
LS State Chapters

General questions and most initial contact should first be attempted through the local chairman for your state. If there is no chairman listed in your state, you may then contact the National League here.
For technical issues with the web site, or to submit material for consideration to this site use our friendly contact form here.

The Chattanooga Declaration
An Official Statement from the 2nd North
American Secessonist Convention



Alabama
Arkansas

California
Colorado

Florida
Georgia

Kentucky
Louisiana

Mississippi
Missouri
(Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa,
Illinois, and Wisconsin)

North Carolina
Northwest Regional LS
(Idaho, Montana, Oregon & Washington)

Oklahoma
South Carolina

Tennessee
Texas

Virginia
(West Virginia and Maryland)



( maybe Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast) http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/2005/06/if-blue-states-secede.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession
In November 2006 the same group sponsored the First North American Secessionist Convention which attracted 40 participants from 16 secessionist organizations and was (erroneously) described as the first gathering of secessionists since the Civil War. Delegates included a broad spectrum from libertarians to socialists to greens to Christian conservatives to indigenous peoples activists. Groups represented included Alaskan Independence Party, Cascadia Independence Project, Hawaiʻi Nation, The Second Maine Militia, The Free State Project, the Republic of New Hampshire, the League of the South, Christian Exodus, the Second Vermont Republic and the United Republic of Texas. Delegates created a statement of principles of secession which they presented as the Burlington Declaration.[4] The Second North American Secessionist Convention in October, 2007, in Chattanooga, Tennessee received local and national media attention.[5]

On February 18th 2008 Montana Secretary of State Brad Johnson Notified the United States government that if the D.C. vs Heller Decision states firearms ownership is a collective right and not an individual right then The State of Montana will secede from the Union citing that the United States broke its portion of the Compact With the United States of 1889 [1] [2]



http://www.vtcommons.org/journal/2006/11/philadelphia-inquirer-covers-north-american-secession-convention
The PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER Covers the North American Secession ConventionSubmitted by Rob Williams on Mon, 11/06/2006 - 11:35am.
Greetings friends,
43 citizens from 16 separate secession-minded organizations from all over the United States attended this past week-end's first-ever North American secession Summit in Burlington, Vermont.
Thanks to journalist Paul Nussbaum of the "Philadelphia Inquirer" for covering the North American Secession Convention, You can read Paul's article here.
And here is the press release and the declaration that came out of the Summit.
Onward, and free Vermont -
Press Release - Monday, November 6, 2006
Vermont contact: Dr. Rob Williams
info@vermontrepublic.org / 802.279.3364 (mobile)
FIRST-EVER NORTH AMERICAN SECESSIONIST CONVENTION A SUCCESS!
MEETING BRINGS MORE THAN 40 SECESSIONISTS FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY TO BURLINGTON, VERMONT
The first North American Secessionist Convention was held in Vermont last week-end [November 3-5, 2006] and attracted more than three dozen people who are in groups actively working for secession from the United States.
The gathering, sponsored by the Middlebury Institute (http://www.middleburyinstitute.net - "for the study of separatism, secession, and self-determination"), drew 43 people, with delegates from 16 secessionist organizations in 18 states, including Hawaii, Alaska, Cascadia, Louisiana, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vermont, and New Hampshire.


LS PRESS RELEASE
18 February 2008

http://dixienet.org/New%20Site/index.shtml
http://dixienet.org/New%20Site/pressrelease02182008.shtml

On Monday, 18 February 2008, Serbian Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica announced: “The South Carolinians are now independent.” Over the weekend, the people of South Carolina, led by The League of the South, announced their State’s independence from Washington, DC. Suspense gripped the world’s newest country as it waited for international backing for its move to independence. In a televised interview, Kostunica said that “South Carolina’s independence is something that I’ve advocated, along with my government.

[Carole]

Here is some miscellaneous info.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1358032#poststop

[Carole]

They would have to use the Mexican and Canadian forces. Then there is the Blackstone group and maybe the Spanish and UN peacekeepers from other countries.

[Carole]

All it would take is for the first state to secede and I think you would quickly be joined by several others. :)

It would definitely take some planning though. All those modern conveniences would have to be worked out eventually. Like electricity (or substitute), water, etc.

There have been several annual secession conventions lately.

[Carole]

Just like in the pioneering days of America. Neighbor actually cooperating and helping neighbor.

What a concept? :D

[seapilot]

When the benefits outweight the risks then a lot of states will think seriously why they are paying so much when a broke federal government gives so little.

[LEK]

uh oh! If Montana took concrete steps to seceed, I believe there are 3 others waiting to jump on that bandwagon (Vemont, Tenn, S.C.). I think this is a very dangerous time in this nations history, and it isnt because of "islamofascists" either.

Civil war? (of sorts...)

[kahless]

This country needs a serious seccessionist movement in order to put things back on track. Let the big government tax and spend liberals in the major cities remain part of the US.

[Sandra]

A state with it's own currency and militia (National Guard) will faire better than a country as a whole under our current form of government. A Civil War like the one we had would not be possible as the Civil War was a geographical devide on the Mason-Dixon line. There will be a scattered patchlike devide this time.

[kahless]

A state with it's own currency and militia (National Guard) will faire better than a country as a whole under our current form of government. A Civil War like the one we had would not be possible as the Civil War was a geographical devide on the Mason-Dixon line. There will be a scattered patchlike devide this time.

The propaganda tool that would hamper an effort like this is Hollywood and the MSM. There needs to be a strong alternative media in place to counter the current state of the MSM and Hollywood.