Why Ron Paul wins everything except the election

[ChickenHawk]

Many here are frustrated by the fact that Ron Paul wins straw polls, has signs and supporters everywhere and does fairly well in caucuses but can't break 10% in a primary. There is a statistic that I often hear that I believe to be fairly accurate. The statistic is that only 2% of the population ever gets involved in politics beyond actually voting. That means less that 2% ever canvass for a candidate, put up yard signs, go to rallies or any other activity. These people are not a fair representation of the typical voter, so what they think and do is likely very different than the norm. When you see a straw poll or even the results of caucus you are seeing the opinion of people in that 2%. When you see the results of a primary you are seeing the opinion of the average voter. Sometimes and in some elections those opinions are closer than others, but they are almost always different to some degree. Ron Paul has managed to skew that difference to a greater degree than you normally see. This is because of a few issues that have become extremely important to a small number of people.

[syborius]

that and massive fraud
::bump::

[ChickenHawk]

that and massive fraud
::bump::


I knew that might come up:D

[syborius]

I knew that might come up:D

I know you knew it would come up, so don't spend all day thinking on a highly sophisticated write up on trying to rationalize massive fraud, rather come up with concepts, ideas, and assist the people in changing the system for the better. Meaning removing all voting "machines" such as diebold. Using only paper ballots in the elections, and having cameras at each polling/counting area to mitigate the potential for fraud to occur. Not to mention organizing people to be observers, and vote counters in ever precinct.

[Roadrcr]

Its honestly the educated ( avid supporters) vrs the sheeple who don't even know what their canidates stand for.

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

There was no fraud. There was no stolen election. There was no rigged voting machines. Wake up from your paranoid delusion.

[Akus]

There was no fraud. There was no stolen election. There was no rigged voting machines. Wake up from your paranoid delusion.

I agree. It was the REPTILIANS!!!!

j/k

I hope that Ron Paul can win the Convention. At least the likelyhood of the Convention being filled with clueless fucks is smaller.

[The Proservative]

The bottom line in this is what I like to call "The Buddy System". We need to become more organized, pack the voting places, and make sure someone is there monitoring polling places for our guy , Ron Paul, or for any of our future candidates.

We need to not only vote, but stick around and make sure the votes of our other supporters are counted, and done so in a law-abiding manner.

[syborius]

Nice sarcasm sideburns... People should just watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ecdkCVD7mM

[Luft97]

Ron did well in the straw polls and online because his supporters were ready to go vote in these polls and want to vote for him on the internet. The people who voted for others are not motivated to go that extra mile for the candidate of their choice. They just go to the polls and vote for whoever the MSM has told them to vote for.

[ronpaulhawaii]

I agree that confirming vote integrity is one of the biggest issues we face today.

[syborius]

I agree. It was the REPTILIANS!!!!

j/k

I hope that Ron Paul can win the Convention. At least the likelyhood of the Convention being filled with clueless fucks is smaller.


I think his remark was sarcastic, at least I hope it was.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ecdkCVD7mM

[mczerone]

I agree. It was the REPTILIANS!!!!

j/k

I hope that Ron Paul can win the Convention. At least the likelyhood of the Convention being filled with clueless farks is smaller.

But the Party Hard-liners (an kiss-ups) will be at their strongest there as well. The people that boo Paul for talking facts about the war.

It should be a good fight, if they let us enter the competition.

[bcreps85]

We win everything that educated and involved voters get involved in.

We lose everything else because 75% of the population doesn't even know who Ron Paul is or think he dropped out a long time ago.

[pacelli]

If we got 5% in states that the campaign did NOTHING in, then I'd say our grassroots did a terrific job. You really can't expect much more than 5% from an impoverished grassroots movement (could I have spent that 2300 locally?).

Now if you have a professionally-run campaign which busts their asses for 55% or more in every single state (i.e. McCain, Wisconsin), you'll start to see results. That's probably part of the reason why Romney still beat Dr. Paul tonight. McCain and Romney are aggressive campaigners, running from event to event all day long.

And I still believe that voting fraud took place. Not against Dr. Paul, but in favor of other candidates. Dead people voting.

[Akus]

Now if you have a professionally-run campaign which busts their asses for 55% or more in every single state (i.e. McCain, Wisconsin), you'll start to see results. That's probably part of the reason why Romney still beat Dr. Paul tonight. McCain and Romney are aggressive campaigners, running from event to event all day long.
Which brings in a question: why aren't(weren't) we agressive campaigners? I don't mean the grassroots, I mean the headquarters.

[pacelli]

Which brings in a question: why aren't(weren't) we agressive campaigners? I don't mean the grassroots, I mean the headquarters.

Sadly I have begun to ask myself the exact same question.

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

Its not fraud, its not sloppy campaigning.

ITS THE MEDIA. Nobody knows who Ron Paul is. The media never talked about him. This was not the result of any conspiracy. Its an inherent problem with the nature of the American people.

[DFF]

When you see the results of a primary you are seeing the opinion of the average voter

Bullshit. You're seeing the will of the oligarchs per vote fraud.

[belian78]

Bullshit. You're seeing the will of the oligarchs per vote fraud.

actually, i think it's a mixture of the two. that would be the most feasible. 5% to 50% is pretty hefty fraud, someone would have caught on, supporter or not.

[speciallyblend]

all blame is on the gop and msm,but mainly the gop for allowing the blackout and the gop is guilty of running a bunch of nothing candidates to try to minimize ron paul,it didnt work now they prop huckabee up so ron paul cant win, THE GOP IS TO BLAME PERIOD

[Cleaner44]

There was no fraud. There was no stolen election. There was no rigged voting machines. Wake up from your paranoid delusion.

There most definetly was fraud, just look at NH. It may not have been on a scale large enough to swing the election, but there was fraud. We have had fraud in our elections for decades. To be ignorant of this fact does not help you. Learn and be strong my brother.

[Mahkato]

We got less than 1% of the media coverage and averaged maybe 8% of the vote. I'd say that's pretty good.

For anyone who ever even THINKS about not voting for someone because they don't think they have a chance at winning, I ask them why they think that someone has no chance. They'll eventually admit that it was the media. The media wrote the polls, conducted the polls, chose what polls to publish, chose what stories to air, chose everything. If you are voting for someone based on electability, you are giving the power of your vote over to someone else and asking nothing in return. Pure and simple.

[PC_for_Paul]

What you are seeing is the opinion of the Hard Core GOP, they get out for the primaries. The majority stay home and silent. 10% know who he is, without Media, no votes. Why? because people don't do their homework.

While the Internet is rising the old media still rule the roost. One of the reasons we get so many military supporters is they use the Internet. That's now how they stay in contact with friends and family.

No Internet, no Ron Paul. You will never see enough of him in the MSM to change your mind. They know if they Harp on something long enough they can change the course of events. It's almost like hypnotism, you repeat it enough and people will accept it as truth, no matter how far fetched.

Add to it the "fringe" that flock to this movement are used to discredit it, doesn't matter if they are right, doesn't matter if they are informed. They are fringe and it's easy to get that point across.

Take this UFO last month in Texas. Even from MSM accounts a lot of people saw it, they can't change those peoples minds, but they can present it to everyone else as "nut jobs" or give explanations that are so nutty that anyone with 1/2 a brain says WTF.

When you step back and look at the facts, we are ants in the Universe, if we are the highest form of intelligence out there, then the Universe is a huge waste. The odds are against it, the odds say we are just above ants on an evolutionary scale.

Do you see how much fear they can spread with stupid retarded things like the "cold war" ( which I hate to tell you people was a farce), or the war on terror, another huge farce. The purpose of the farce to deflect any rational decent. What would happen if they told the truth, yes something is out there, we know as much about it as you do. In other words they have no idea, what these events are, who they are, or anything much past what we know. Talk about panic, talk about loss of faith in something that claims to be in "control".

What's that old saying, a lie travels a mile before the truth even gets it's pants on?

When the media chose not to discredit the very people who spread flat out lies, then the truth moves at a snails pace.

I guess somewhere along the way, the MSM will have to be discredited along with it's allies, but that could take time.

The next 4 years will be a challenge, and many conspiracy nuts will be vindicated in a strange coalescing of political distrust, economic repercussions, the rise of the internet, and the approach of 2012.

As far as 2008 goes many are starting to realize we have missed the boat, that small window to catch fire has passed. It would be all up hill from here even as a 3rd Party, the internet hasn't reached max saturation, once it does the movement would be viable.

The bad news is they are on to us, and they are on to the internet. Currently they can't control it, I'm sure that is being worked on before 2012.

and just for the record, I don't think 9/11 was an inside job, I have never seen a UFO ( I did live on a nuke site and know a lot of folks who did while there), I don't believe in a NWO conspiracy.

What I believe is our government is incompetent, not evil. I believe our government is corrupt and not an organized conspiracy. It just appears to be an evil conspiracy to the observer, it's just the old "one hand washes the other" taken to it's extreme conclusion.

Fact is indeed stranger than fiction.

[Rhys]

So if only 2% are political, we only have 5%-10% of that, and only 15% of that canvas...

now I know why we're not winning.

[BigRedBrent]

Its honestly the educated ( avid supporters) vrs the sheeple who don't even know what their canidates stand for.

It is the educated vs the ignorant. We are in a battle to win over the minds of the ignorant so they can do something intelligent for a change.

Sad, but I think if you look past the insult this is fairly accurate.

Now if we can just get the ignorant to understand this without insulting them then we may have a chance. :D

[freelance]

I know you knew it would come up, so don't spend all day thinking on a highly sophisticated write up on trying to rationalize massive fraud, rather come up with concepts, ideas, and assist the people in changing the system for the better. Meaning removing all voting "machines" such as diebold. Using only paper ballots in the elections, and having cameras at each polling/counting area to mitigate the potential for fraud to occur. Not to mention organizing people to be observers, and vote counters in ever precinct.

How about cameras where they COUNT the votes in front of all of those who care to witness the count?

[ChickenHawk]

Nice sarcasm sideburns... People should just watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ecdkCVD7mM


Maybe you can explain how that video proves that there was that kind of fraud in this election. There was certainly fraud but there is no evidence it was enough to change the outcome or that the machines were programed to rig the election.

In the states where the votes were recounted by hand how much did the numbers change? I haven't seen any of these numbers yet so I am curious. In past elections where Diebold counted paper ballots were recounted by hand the numbers were extremely close.

[Bubba]

that and massive fraud
::bump::

ditto

[Bubba]

How about cameras where they COUNT the votes in front of all of those who care to witness the count?

+1

Vote in private, count in public.

[abe447]

He wins small straw polls because nobody else really cares about them. They're meaningless. The biggest one was the Iowa Straw Poll and when other candidates actually put some time into it, Ron Paul finished 5th. There are plenty of reasons why Ron Paul isn't doing well- The campaign staff was clueless, the message doesn't connect with voters, Ron Paul himself isn't the greatest speaker or motivator, the in your face supporters who often spout conspiracy theories that turn people off. There's a conspiracy theory for everything with some people. These are just some logical reasons why Ron Paul didn't do well. We should be discussing these and what we can do better instead of crying about diebold machine conspiracies.

[ChickenHawk]

He wins small straw polls because nobody else really cares about them. They're meaningless. The biggest one was the Iowa Straw Poll and when other candidates actually put some time into it, Ron Paul finished 5th. There are plenty of reasons why Ron Paul isn't doing well- The campaign staff was clueless, the message doesn't connect with voters, Ron Paul himself isn't the greatest speaker or motivator, the in your face supporters who often spout conspiracy theories that turn people off. There's a conspiracy theory for everything with some people. These are just some logical reasons why Ron Paul didn't do well. We should be discussing these and what we can do better instead of crying about diebold machine conspiracies.


I could not agree more. However, I do think it is important to rid the world of electronic voting because of the potential for undetectable fraud.

[abe447]

I could not agree more. However, I do think it is important to rid the world of electronic voting because of the potential for undetectable fraud.

Fair point. But the issues I brought up are more important. Folks, voting fraud didn't make Ron Paul go from 30-40% victories to 5-10% 5th place finishes. It's just not logically possible. There are other far greater reasons for why we failed. It's important that we recognize them and fix them for the Congressional races and 2012.

[ChickenHawk]

Fair point. But the issues I brought up are more important. Folks, voting fraud didn't make Ron Paul go from 30-40% victories to 5-10% 5th place finishes. It's just not logically possible. There are other far greater reasons for why we failed. It's important that we recognize them and fix them for the Congressional races and 2012.


True, some people are in serious denial. This has always been a problem with libertarianism. Many libertarians seem to think that their ideas are so obviously correct that everyone would automatically agree with them if they just had a chance to here the message. Unfortunately that just isn't the case. A person needs to come along that can deliver the limited government message in a way that appeals to the masses. Unfortunately I'm afraid that person would just get labeled a sell out by the hard core that frequent this forum.

[klamath]

There is always voter fraud but it only makes a difference in close elections and only for which side managed to do it better.
For all the people that are screaming massive voter fraud, did any of you do your own random poll of people in your city to see who they were voting for? If not shut up. I did and the votes for RP weren't out there. I got a clue real early that I would never be a state delegate from my congressional district when my congressman did a telephone town hall. He polled us what we thought of a measure in congress that would restrict constitutional rights of Gitmo detainees (AKA torture). Like eighty percent of those voted to restrict the right and at that point I knew RP had no chance to win this district. What the congressmen did do was lose my vote. I have voted for him since the begining but I doubt my vote will cause him to lose.

[ionlyknowy]

No no no, you guys have it all wrong, it went down like this...

The elections are rigged in a lot of places, but not all.

The MSM hypes the candidate that the rigging favors... they do so because they dont want anyone asking any questions...

If the MSM didnt do this, and everyone you knew liked Ron, and Rudy won the election, then everyone would start asking questions.

This way, no one asks questions because they saw on TV that MCcain was "gaining ground" which is a comment that is true because of the direct effect of that comment.


;)

[pennycat]

So glad I read through this thread to get past the loons thinking election fraud was the reason we lost. If they got out and canvassed like I did, they would know voter fraud was the least of our problems. Get out and get involved with awakening your county Republican Executive Party.

[Penners]

He wins small straw polls because nobody else really cares about them. They're meaningless. The biggest one was the Iowa Straw Poll and when other candidates actually put some time into it, Ron Paul finished 5th. There are plenty of reasons why Ron Paul isn't doing well- The campaign staff was clueless, the message doesn't connect with voters, Ron Paul himself isn't the greatest speaker or motivator, the in your face supporters who often spout conspiracy theories that turn people off. There's a conspiracy theory for everything with some people. These are just some logical reasons why Ron Paul didn't do well. We should be discussing these and what we can do better instead of crying about diebold machine conspiracies.

Amen

[syborius]

So glad I read through this thread to get past the loons thinking election fraud was the reason we lost. If they got out and canvassed like I did, they would know voter fraud was the least of our problems. Get out and get involved with awakening your county Republican Executive Party.

http://www.aunetwork.tv/files/audio/Ron_Paul_on_Washington_Oregon_Call_2_15_08.mp3

why don't you listen to Ron Paul in his own words on election fraud, and how he has lost elections because of that. If you believe our low results in the primaries are only because of ineptitude from the campaign HQ put your head back in the sand.

[Bubba]

http://www.aunetwork.tv/files/audio/Ron_Paul_on_Washington_Oregon_Call_2_15_08.mp3

why don't you listen to Ron Paul in his own words on election fraud, and how he has lost elections because of that. If you believe our low results in the primaries are only because of ineptitude from the campaign HQ put your head back in the sand.

This link needs to be its own thread. IMO. 'bout time folks heard for themselves straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak)

[syborius]

Thanks Bubba, really baffles me how ignorant people are here, some are just lazy to actually research, and then there are those with a concise agenda to detract, confuse, and shout down what is really happening in this election.

[nate895]

He wins small straw polls because nobody else really cares about them. They're meaningless. The biggest one was the Iowa Straw Poll and when other candidates actually put some time into it, Ron Paul finished 5th. There are plenty of reasons why Ron Paul isn't doing well- The campaign staff was clueless, the message doesn't connect with voters, Ron Paul himself isn't the greatest speaker or motivator, the in your face supporters who often spout conspiracy theories that turn people off. There's a conspiracy theory for everything with some people. These are just some logical reasons why Ron Paul didn't do well. We should be discussing these and what we can do better instead of crying about diebold machine conspiracies.

I would say only the campaign staff, the message appeals, and Ron Paul is definitely a better speaker than McCain or Bush.