We need our own state.

[SteveMartin]

Let's decide which state to all move to, vote Ron Paul for President, and begin to formulate articles of secession. I'm serious...

Remember that only 3% of American males took up arms in the first revolution against King George. We've got better than 3%...

[Jeremy]

Texas is the only state that was once its own country

[The One]

Texas.....Ron Paul wouldn't have to relocate, and neither would I.:D

[nate895]

I like Texas, or pretty much any Southern State.

[Jeremy]

Texas.....Ron Paul wouldn't have to relocate, and neither would I.:D

I live in CT and am afraid of the heat :o


:p

[FrankRep]

I love the Free State Project (http://www.freestateproject.org/), but it's just too damn cold for me in New Hampshire.

Which (warm) state would be the best choice to dominate? I'm looking at South Carolina myself. I've been researching Charleston, SC.

[nate895]

I love the Free State Project (http://www.freestateproject.org/), but it's just too damn cold for me in New Hampshire.

Which (warm) state would be the best choice to dominate? I'm looking at South Carolina myself. I've been researching Charleston, SC.

South Carolina, the home of secession, sounds like fun.

[Jeremy]

I think it's between the Northwest and Texas =o

[SteveMartin]

Texas is too big. With a population of 12-14 million we could get 2 million people to move there, and it would not be enough. We could take over any of the northern tier states from Washington to Maine.

Vermont already has a large secessionist movement...My part of Maine (northern third) has the cheapest real estate in the country...(Average 3-4 BR house for $60-80,000.)

[FrankRep]

I like Texas as well. I'll go along with Texas if there's enough support!

[nateerb]

Texas.....Ron Paul wouldn't have to relocate, and neither would I.:D

I have to say, in the past Texan arrogance was a major turn-off.

In the present, I look to it as hope. If anyone has a chance at secession it's Texas.

God bless Texas indeed.

[SteveMartin]

We need to be a border state that could secede without being surrounded by non-seceding states. Maine has only one neighbor...NH...

[Jeremy]

We need to be a border state that could secede without being surrounded by non-seceding states. Maine has only one neighbor...NH...

The Northwest loves Paul and they are surrounded by... the Pacific Ocean and Canada

[SteveMartin]

There is a small movement in Atlantic Canada (New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, P.E.I. and New Foundland) that already wants to secede from Ottawa. Maybe Maine would join them.

They love R.P. over there too...

[SteveMartin]

SC,

Washington state works for me too! It is also already a state where RP is popular...

[The One]

Okay, so back to Texas......:D

[nate895]

I think it's between the Northwest and Texas =o

Reasons not to move to the Northwest:

It rains all the time, even summer
It is cold all the time, even summer
The Liberals assume they rule here and that you are liberal too
The streets are rolled up at sundown (which is 4:30 in the heart of winter)
The only thing to do on the weekend is to shop for second rate garbage at local mall (if you aren't canvassing for Ron Paul, that is probably more fun than most things up here)
If you want to open a restaurant in my town the total government fees are upwards of $100,000 if 100 tables
Portland food sucks outside of the few good downtown restaurants, which have waits of several hours
People are jerks for the most part,
and did I mention it is cold and rains all the time

[SteveMartin]

If we get 500 people to sign on here first, then we should start a website, get comitted "settlers" signing up and GO FOR IT!

Ron Paul is a big fan of Ayn Rand...you all know what happened at the end of "Atlas Shrugged?"...time to go...

[IDefendThePlatform]

New Hampshire was the choice for freedom lovers couple years back. Its small enough that our numbers could make a difference. Check it out:

http://www.freestateproject.org/

[TruthAtLast]

Texas.....Ron Paul wouldn't have to relocate, and neither would I.:D

I'm up for that as long as I can stay away from tornadoes.

[SteveMartin]

nate,

Only true of coastal regions. Central WA and OR are quite arid.

[The One]

Okay, I'll make ya'll a deal.....if everyone will agree on Texas, you can all stay at my house. I got dibbs on top bunk!!!

[FrankRep]

If we get 500 people to sign on here first, then we should start a website, get comitted "settlers" signing up and GO FOR IT!

Ron Paul is a big fan of Ayn Rand...you all know what happened at the end of "Atlas Shrugged?"...time to go...

I'm on board to move! Somewhere warm though.

[Kotin]

texas.

[SteveMartin]

Truth,

I hear that! No way am I moving to tornado alley, or where hurricane (guided variety) dangers could wipe us out.

[nate895]

nate,

Only true of coastal regions. Central WA and OR are quite arid.

Yes, but it is still cold, and there is even less to do out there. I like Texas, believe me, I will not live the rest of my life in this hell hole.

[mavtek]

I live in CT and am afraid of the heat :o


:p

Amarillo, cold winters, mild summers. Texas, we're so big we got any climate you need.

[The One]

I'm up for that as long as I can stay away from tornadoes.

No guarantees on that, especially in the panhandle where I'm from. I see you're from California...at least we don't have earthquakes here. Besides, t-storms and tornadoes are exciting. I get a rush from them.:cool:

[SteveMartin]

Well, someone tell me how we could take Texas with that population? It needs to be a state with less than 3-4 million people...

[Jeremy]

I'm on board to move! Somewhere warm though.

But I like snow :(

[The One]

Hey, I just realized I hit 500 posts. w00t!

[FrankRep]

Well, someone tell me how we could take Texas with that population? It needs to be a state with less than 3-4 million people...

Focus on one city at a time within Texas.

[nate895]

Well, someone tell me how we could take Texas with that population? It needs to be a state with less than 3-4 million people...

Then we need to go to South Carolina, since that way I can get my warm climate that it is indeed as important as liberty, and we already have the governorship.

[Jeremy]

Then we need to go to South Carolina, since that way I can get my warm climate that it is indeed as important as liberty, and we already have the governorship.

Nah, colder is better. Keeps us awake. Toughens us up. Scares away old sheeple. And one word: Waterloo.

And those blue RP signs look mighty fine on a fresh blanket of snow :D

[SteveMartin]

Half of the population of SC is on welfare, right? And, RP did poorly there.

Again, I think it has got to be a northern tier state with a low population: WA, ID, MT, ND, VT, NH, ME....or...hey...what about Hawaii???

[nate895]

Nah, colder is better. Keeps us awake. Toughens us up. Scares away old sheeple. And one word: Waterloo.

And those blue RP signs look mighty fine on a fresh blanket of snow :D

You ain't gonna convince this born-in-California to Southerners that colder is better.

[SteveMartin]

The only big draw backs with Hawaii are the volcanoes and the cost of living...

[nate895]

Half of the population of SC is on welfare, right? And, RP did poorly there.

Again, I think it has got to be a northern tier state with a low population: WA, ID, MT, ND, VT, NH, ME....or...hey...what about Hawaii???

I don't think that many are on welfare, and, as I mentioned, we already have the governorship.

[FrankRep]

Houston, Texas


Since its founding in September 2001, the Free State Project has blossomed into a full-fledged freedom movement with more than 2,000 members from across the US and World. Local groups have been organizing, and Sorens will be speaking at a local meeting in Houston on Tuesday, December 24th to promote the Free State Project to area libertarians and to answer questions about the progress and goals of the Free State Project.

Sorens graduated from St. Thomas' Episcopal School in Houston and is looking forward to returning to his hometown. "There is a strong movement in favor of individual rights and free markets in the Houston area," says Sorens. "It's no surprise that the Houston chapter of the Free State Project is one of our most enthusiastic and active groups."


Source: Free State Project
http://www.freestateproject.org/taxonomy/term/45

[SteveMartin]

SC,

I agree. Hearty pioneers are what we need....

[Jeremy]

You ain't gonna convince this born-in-California to Southerners that colder is better.

I just don't think living for freedom starts with a vacation where we sit around like bums :D

[nbhadja]

Reasons not to move to the Northwest:

It rains all the time, even summer
It is cold all the time, even summer
The Liberals assume they rule here and that you are liberal too
The streets are rolled up at sundown (which is 4:30 in the heart of winter)
The only thing to do on the weekend is to shop for second rate garbage at local mall (if you aren't canvassing for Ron Paul, that is probably more fun than most things up here)
If you want to open a restaurant in my town the total government fees are upwards of $100,000 if 100 tables
Portland food sucks outside of the few good downtown restaurants, which have waits of several hours
People are jerks for the most part,
and did I mention it is cold and rains all the time


Rain= Good thing
It would help the state out a lot. A drought ridden state is useless.
If you think people from the NW are jerks, you should see people from the SE and NE.

[nate895]

Rain= Good thing
It would help the state out a lot. A drought ridden state is useless.
If you think people from the NW are jerks, you should see people from the SE and NE.

Not when there is so much rain the I-5 has an annual inundation.

[erin moore]

Texas sounded ok at first, because of the RP connection mostly... but I think in terms of contingency plans:

My husband makes the point that we might want to stay out of states that have several (or any) major military instilations in them. (He is active duty)

Also, while a costal state is nice for a water getaway (I am 100% serious), and the proximity of Mexico is a good point.... porximity to Canada is better. Canada wouldn't allow people to be persued across their borders (as I understand things) but Mexico certianly would (and does).

I wanted a southern state too. But if we want to seriously affect local politics, senate districts, state representatives, congress, mayors, sheriffs, governers and then even more... we have to pick carefully and NOT based on the personal tastes of a few members.

Pros and Cons- be resoonable. INTJs should understand this... (google it if you dont know what I'm talking about, many of us Ron Paul supporters are INTJs)

my picks for the new state mottos are

THINK- its not illegal yet. and LEGALIZE the constitution!

[Jeremy]

I heard people from the Northwest are the nicest people in the country

maybe southerners are nice too

but I'm from New England and you definitely don't have the nicest people here, lol

[The One]

Rain= Good thing
It would help the state out a lot. A drought ridden state is useless.
If you think people from the NW are jerks, you should see people from the SE and NE.

We're real friendly in Texas. We say "howdy" alot....or at least that's what the TV would have you believe.:rolleyes:

[Jeremy]

OK.... I'm just going to have to stick to the Washington / Montana area

[SteveMartin]

The Free State Project is big in NH....

Hey, Texan promoters...is the "Republic of Texas" group still active out there?

[nbhadja]

Being from Florida, anything starting from Central-North Florida and northward is what I consider colder winters (where you can't comfortably wear shorts and a shortsleve shirt 365 days a year, or aka frostzone). But I like extreme weather (no in between). Northern Maine or Alaska anyone??

[nate895]

Rain= Good thing
It would help the state out a lot. A drought ridden state is useless.
If you think people from the NW are jerks, you should see people from the SE and NE.

Oh, and I have never met a single Southerner who has treated with courtesy and hospitality, and I have been to the South plenty of times. The day the South turns her back from that is the day that there is no more South.

[Arek]

Couldn't we actually take over less populated states like the dakotas and wyoming. maybe even throw in Montana. I mean they have small populations so we could have a chance to influence the politics there... and in the Dakotas we have some good mountains to hide behind to shoot the Unionists neo-con/libs if they attack.

[Ara825]

I'm up for that as long as I can stay away from tornadoes.

We have storm cellers here in Texas. Of course, there are those sneaky storms that creep up while you're asleep. You run the risk of going to sleep in your bed to wake up in your neighbor's bathtub. hehehehehe :D

I love Texas!

[SteveMartin]

Erin,

Excellent points. Proximity to Canada is important I think...

Nobody liked my Hawaii idea though?

[pinkmandy]

I'm ready to move. Warm, good place to grow food, plenty of fresh water are must haves. Mountains would be nice, too but not prone to natural disasters (earthquakes, landslides, wildfires, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc.). And definitely not surrounded by other states.

[nate895]

Couldn't we actually take over less populated states like the dakotas and wyoming. maybe even throw in Montana. I mean they have small populations so we could have a chance to influence the politics there... and in the Dakotas we have some good mountains to hide behind to shoot the Unionists neo-con/libs if they attack.

If you are looking for protection from the neocons, look no further than Alaska, any idiot could defend that place.

[Jeremy]

Being from Florida, anything starting from Central-North Florida and northward is what I consider colder winters (where you can't comfortably wear shorts and a shortselve shirt 365 days a year). But I like extreme weather (no in between). Northern Maine or Alaska anyone??

For crying out loud, I wear shortsleeve shirts in 20 degree weather up here in CT :p

It can get below 0 once in a while... not usually... but most of winter is in the 20s

[nate895]

I'm ready to move. Warm, good place to grow food, plenty of fresh water are must haves. Mountains would be nice, too but not prone to natural disasters (earthquakes, landslides, wildfires, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc.). And definitely not surrounded by other states.

That place doesn't exist that I know of.

[Jeremy]

If you are looking for protection from the neocons, look no further than Alaska, any idiot could defend that place.

Also a lot farther from our families

[SteveMartin]

Northern Maine has a lot to recommend it. We actually had a nascent secession movement here ten years ago (I was elected president) and the convention was attended by several state legislators. There is 11,000 square miles of mostly wilderness in my county alone (pop. 80,000). We could dominate that in a hurry. We have a huge opportunity to build a hydro dam that would power our new state all by itself...We have very low real estate. Plenty of firewood...Canada is two miles behind my house. Nothing but woods to the border...

[Jeremy]

Erin,

Excellent points. Proximity to Canada is important I think...

Nobody liked my Hawaii idea though?

Too far... and the state honestly creeps me out (not that I've been there though)

[The One]

Dude, there seems to be a shit-load of interest in doing this. I haven't seen this much activity on a thread this quickly since the infamous billionaire thread.

[Minlawc]

Okay, so back to Texas......:D

Texas is too full of Neocons, too populated, and surrounded by well... America.

The best and most advantageous place would be Alaska, especially if you want to secede. It's bigger than Texas, and has a population lower than New Hampshire. I know some people don't like cold weather, but it's the best state for secession.

It's not a good place to go to influence American Politics, which was the Free State Project's main goal. Correct?

I don't know much about Alaska, but we could try setting up our own city from scratch...

[Jeremy]

I've been to Maine... it's OK

I don't eat Lobsters, but would if it was necessary for survival

[nate895]

Also a lot farther from our families

That is why I kind of like the idea, but then after I think about it I say no. The only place I could accept living in as its own country is the South because that is where most of my family lives, and that is where it came from, so it feels kind of unnatural to live where I can't go to it without getting a passport.

[LibertyEagle]

Truth,

I hear that! No way am I moving to tornado alley, or where hurricane (guided variety) dangers could wipe us out.

Nah. Texas isn't in tornado alley. Tornado alley is Oklahoma and Kansas.

[SteveMartin]

nate,

Northern Maine has all of that except warm weather. You'll toughen up....

[Jeremy]

Dude, there seems to be a shit-load of interest in doing this. I haven't seen this much activity on a thread this quickly since the infamous billionaire thread.

What can we say, we're dreamers :D

But we also get a lot of stuff done... =o

[mcvac]

Okay...I'm gonna throw out....MISSISSIPPI...snows in the north..beaches in the south..everybody owns a gun...very unpopulated....Nice casinos..Good seafood..

[Steveco]

and turn the entire country into a free nation. I am running for a house seat in Colorado, with the support of our local Ron Paul groups and a lot of work I think I can win this. We may also have a RP republican running for mayor in my Town, the current mayor is term limited. Do not let your local organizations fade away, stay involved we can win in the long run.

The Ron Paul people are by far the most organized and motivated in my area.

[Jeremy]

That is why I kind of like the idea, but then after I think about it I say no. The only place I could accept living in as its own country is the South because that is where most of my family lives, and that is where it came from, so it feels kind of unnatural to live where I can't go to it without getting a passport.

You don't need a passport to leave southern US if you're going to northern US... lol =o

[erin moore]

With relocating people you have to look at employment and cost of living. Less populated states are a good idea because people can flock to the city for employment and those self-employed types and farmers can live in the outlying areas and shore-up support there.

I haven't done research on it yet but my gut says Montana or North Dakota.

Like I said before (earlier in the thread) proximity to Canada is very important.

FAIR -WEATHER patroits need not apply. Any serious comments on this need to stop mentioning weather. I canvassed in 30 mph winds here in Kentucky and others of you trekked it out in the snow and ice.

Edit: Hawaii.... I think, I dont know why, I just dont think that will work.... maybe I dont know enough about Hawaii.... it seems idealistic, just make sure we're promoting ideas based on MERIT please

[SteveMartin]

Alaska has an awful lot to recommend it.

The lower peninsula has weather commensurate with Seattle most of the time...Only 350,000 people there to outnumber, and many would be with us anyway!

[tpreitzel]

Let's decide which state to all move to, vote Ron Paul for President, and begin to formulate articles of secession. I'm serious...

Remember that only 3% of American males took up arms in the first revolution against King George. We've got better than 3%...

Barring nullification of the 17th amendment which established a democracy or mob rule in place of our republic, I could see decades ago that the people would continually vote their conditioning. Many of us have been proven right. Now, I haven't joined the Free State Project because I simply can't afford to travel 2000 miles which is why I've advocated at least TWO such states, e.g. one in the east and one in the west. Personally, I think the best choices were probably New Hampshire (#1) and Wyoming (#2). Yes, the case can be made for other states as well. The situation in this country is likely to deteriorate. Yes, get involved in the GOP and try to change it as many of us are. However, we need a backup plan and we'd be foolish to ignore current trends. Yes, in Wyoming, the wind blows like hell, but how much does liberty mean to you? In New Hampshire, it probably snows like hell, but how much does liberty mean to you? Seriously, most of the dedicated supporters of Ron Paul would probably make excellent prospects for the Free State Project, because they're not afraid to take risks for the sake of their posterity. Look at your kids in the eyes and think about their future. It's painful for me. Lastly, succession is likely the ONLY bloodless way out of this mess, but time is running out... Think about it constantly. If you're convinced, then act on it ... quickly. May we make the right decisions for our sake and the sake of our kids.

[nate895]

You don't need a passport to leave southern US if you're going to northern US... lol =o

I thought that was the aim, to secede, and if we secede, I need to get a passport to leave.

I think I am sticking with the US until it is impossible to recover it.

[constitutional]

Pick a state like Nebraska or TN because it's located in the middle of the United States. It should stir quite a commotion. :p


http://county-map.digital-topo-maps.com/united-states-map.gif

[pinkmandy]

Honestly, if I found out all RP supporters were moving to Siberia I'd be there. Just to be around intelligent people and to raise my children in a freedom...

If you announce it they will come. :)

[nate895]

Really, I've supported this idea for decades as I could see that barring nullification of the 17th amendment which established a democracy or mob rule in place of our republic, the people would continually vote their conditioning. Many of us have been proven right. Now, I haven't joined the Free State Project because I simply can't afford to travel 2000 miles which is why I've advocated at least TWO such states, e.g. one in the east and one in the west. Personally, I think the best choices were probably New Hampshire (#1) and Wyoming (#2). Yes, the case can be made for other states as well. The situation in this country is likely to deteriorate. Yes, get involved in the GOP and try to change it as many of us are. However, we need a backup plan and we'd be foolish to ignore current trends. Yes, in Wyoming, the wind blows like hell, but how much does liberty mean to you? In New Hampshire, it probably snows like hell, but how much does liberty mean to you? Seriously, most of the dedicated supporters of Ron Paul would probably make excellent prospects for the Free State Project, because they're not afraid to take risks for the sake of their posterity. Look at your kids in the eyes and think about their future. It's painful for me. Lastly, succession is likely the ONLY bloodless way out of this mess, but time is running out... Think about it constantly. If you're convinced, then act on it ... quickly. May we make the right decisions for our sake and the sake of our kids.

There is a Free State Wyoming project.

[SteveMartin]

Alaska would be hard for the PTB to let go though. Too much mineral and oil wealth...Maine? I don't think they'd even notice...We just give the southern 5th (liberal country--"Flat landers" we call them) back to MA, and take the rest independent...

Alaska would be the best for defensive purposes...Canada would have to give permission for overland transport...

[SteveMartin]

Anybody have web-design abilities?

[SteveMartin]

Again, whatever state we choose must not be surrounded by non-seceding states.

[Steveco]

"Let's decide which state to all move to, vote Ron Paul for President, and begin to formulate articles of secession. I'm serious..."

The last time this was tried 600,000 men died, the FED will never let this happen, history repeats , we must fix the system from inside the system, if everyone involved in this movement will run for every local political office available we will fix this country.

[tpreitzel]

There is a Free State Wyoming project.

Thanks!

[Jeremy]

Anybody have web-design abilities?

Yah, but talk to me in a month because I have no time to do it =o

[icon124]

haha I'll move to any warm state...

[erin moore]

Money shouldnt be a huge relocation consideration. I think if this idea came to fruition, we would establish a fund to get people to the "encampments."

We could have tent cities.... I am a Ron Paul refugee... J/k.

This idea WILL DIE if we dont make it a less populated state. Otherwise infiltrating the system to the extent that will will affect meaningful change is not realistic.

One state at a time... the first one needs to be a place that people can afford to live in, find a place to work, and will not have a huge establishment to overcome.

[Lisa S]

We don't need a state that is earthquake prone. I think the way the weather is going crazy we are probably in for some big ones.

[erin moore]

I agree with you steveco, but if you run a meetup group, you understand what percentage of those people are active and what percentage of THOSE people are leaders.

Ron Paul has less than 20,000 precinct leaders... from all those voters and donors? Most people are followers, and that is ok. As long as they are following this movement.

[SteveMartin]

Steveco,

That was before we supported seccesionsit movements elsewhere as part of official policy. Just yesterday the US condoned the secession of Kosovo. The world community would flip totally against the Washington-controlled states if they tried violence...

Still, you are right that the threat is real. Again, that is why it should be a state that borders Canada (or nowhere--like Hawaii) for that primary reason.

[pinkmandy]

Maybe the billionare could go buy some land for us? J/k. You guys decide, I'll be there w/my family of 5.

[tpreitzel]

Again, whatever state we choose must not be surrounded by non-seceding states.

Montana also might be a good choice as it's adjacent and north of Wyoming. However, we can't have too many states as we need a plurality of votes which requires bodies, probably at least 50,000 in Wyoming and 150000 in New Hampshire.

[Minlawc]

Again, whatever state we choose must not be surrounded by non-seceding states.

Alaska is THE choice then I think, if you want to do this...

[Jeremy]

But in all seriousness, we should probably wait until after November to plan these types of things

[SteveMartin]

Erin,

I like the way your mind works...keep it up, sis!

[Lisa S]

We do also have to consider jobs. The cost of living, and ability to grow crops for survival when bottom drops out.

[mcvac]

I still say Mississippi...rednecks and all...property values and cost of living is dirt cheap...but we still have great seasons...just ask all the retired military who move here.

[Jeremy]

Alaska is THE choice then I think, if you want to do this...

idk about Alaska...

[FrankRep]

New Hampshire would probably be the best choice because of the Free State Project (http://www.freestateproject.org/).

Liberty > Warm weather (Pains me to say)

[nate895]

"Let's decide which state to all move to, vote Ron Paul for President, and begin to formulate articles of secession. I'm serious..."

The last time this was tried 600,000 men died, the FED will never let this happen, history repeats , we must fix the system from inside the system, if everyone involved in this movement will run for every local political office available we will fix this country.

I don't think the federal government would start a war over it, the reason why is because then they would be cut off from the world, but we would also be cut off unless we were large enough. I don't think this idea is a good one, to tell you the truth. It is probably best to try to convert as many people as possible.

[TruthAtLast]

How about Reno? No fear of drought. Awesome Ponderosa Pines. No state taxes. Low property taxes. No threat of major earthquake. No tornadoes. No hurricanes. 30 minutes from Lake Tahoe. Mild Summers and Winters. No smog. Rarely are there any fires (like in Cali). Virtually no traffic because of the population density control.

Still very small and being 20 miles from the state capital, Carson City, we'd have a chance to have a lot of influence and be a big fish in a small pond.

All major amenities including opera, several casinos, many resorts, dozens of golf courses, major airport, etc.

And if there ever is a terrorist attack (even if it was planned by our own Government) they will never hit a seemingly sleepy town like Reno or Carson City. Even nuclear fallout from San Francisco or Las Vegas wouldn't reach Reno. It is blocked by mountain ranges on virtually all sides including the majestic Sierra Nevada Range.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii118/TruthAtLast/carson-city-hall.jpg http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii118/TruthAtLast/carson-city-reno-1.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii118/TruthAtLast/carson-city-sunset.jpg http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii118/TruthAtLast/nevada-state-legislature.jpg
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii118/TruthAtLast/slide-mountain-reno.jpg

[SteveMartin]

Montana is beautiful! I love that state...it is huge, wild and still largely untamed.

I will go anywhere on the northern tier, but AK, MT, VT, NH and ME seem to have the best potential in my mind.

WE MUST CHOOSE ONLY ONE imho, or we will never have the weight of numbers to force a resolution of secession.

[SteveMartin]

Reno is a city. We need to decide on a state, but we certainly don't have to do it tonight...

[erin moore]

Ok, Montana.... That is my choice. I did consider Alaska, but I think we're already considered "fringe" and that only helps bolster that.... but also, people will have a mental block about moving out of the greater 48.

Montana... there are a variety of terrain possibilities to live in. Rapid growth and chances for urbanization that we have the power (through our numbers) to influence.

EDIT: for those that arent reading the whole thread - we need proximity to canada and a state with a lower population

[Benaiah]

//

[SteveMartin]

New Hampshire would probably be the best choice because of the Free State Project (http://www.freestateproject.org/).

Liberty > Warm weather (Pains me to say)

NH is certainly a candidate, but it is close to Boston, lots of military bases, lots and lots of liberals who commute to Boston, and surrounded on three sides...Very small too...crops need space...

[TruthAtLast]

Reno is a city. We need to decide on a state, but we certainly don't have to do it tonight...

LOL duh. How many cities are in Nevada? I'm saying Reno because that is right next to Carson City, the state capital and who in their right mind would want to move to Vegas?

It is easier to have influence in numbers in Nevada (especially Carson City area) most other states.

[SteveMartin]

Benaiah,

ME voted against real ID first!

[pinkmandy]

Before deciding on Montana, do some research on Yellowstone and the volcanic activity. I don't think that's a safe place.

[coffeewithchess]

RP could have just bought his own island with all the money we sent him...

[SteveMartin]

Oh...and RP swept northern Maine. Won both the straw poll and the delegate count outright.

Biggest drawbacks of northern Maine are:

1> Cold
2> Lack of jobs


Positives:

1> Plenty of space for crops
2> Very low population density
3> Surrounded on three sides by Canada
4> Cheapest real estate in the nation
5> Secessionist fervor already exists

[SteveMartin]

pinkmandy,

Yes...remote concern, but possibly one to keep in mind. Northern Maine is the safest from all possible natural disasters too. Safest place in the USA if Yellowstone should blow (outside of northern Alaska, or an island somewhere.) Maine has no earthquakes, No hurricanes, very rare tornadoes, no volcanoes. Elevation from 400-5000 feet is high enough for any but the worst mega-tsunami threats.

[tpreitzel]

Before deciding on Montana, do some research on Yellowstone and the volcanic activity. I don't think that's a safe place.

Helena will be in a good spot, then. ;) Montana is HUGE so it's pretty easy to exchange the volcanoes for the tornadoes. :)

[nate895]

Before deciding on Montana, do some research on Yellowstone and the volcanic activity. I don't think that's a safe place.

When that goes off, you wouldn't want to be in the United States at all.

[pinkmandy]

Steve, I'm leaning towards Maine myself and I hate cold. The geographic location of Maine is perfect, though. And if they're right about global warming, hell, it might warm up a bit, lol.

I watched this docu on Yellowstone awhile back and it startled me. If it were not for that little fear I'd prefer Montana.

[Jeremy]

Don't forget about heating indoors... and fire =)

[mavtek]

FYI I believe there are already at least 100,000 people that think like we do in Texas. I think we can reach them all. What needs to happen is we need to take over a city, then a county, then another. We need State Legislators elected, not even a majority really, then bring the motions to the table, get the people behind them. We could start in the area of Austin, which is also the capital. Politics in Texas happen in Austin. It's Texas' DC.

Think about what Texas is and what they believe. Fiercely patriotic to the state of Texas, many of us our Texan's before we are Americans. We're 70% Republican/Conservative, Austin may well be the Libertarian Capital of the world. We have a strong economy, access to ports, both Oil and Natural Gas reserves and wells. We have direct access to Mexico. We also have large Militia movements and are strongly pro 2nd amendment. 1 in 7 are concealed carriers.

[swhdallas]

2nd Vermont Republic website: http://www.vermontrepublic.org/

And petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/166703669

[SteveMartin]

Again, Texas is far too large and far too surrounded and far too populated. We need to get those 100,000 to join us.

mavtek,

I just don't think we have that kind of time. We need to inundate a small-population state and get out of the D.C.-infested corpse within a year or two at the most. Either McCain or the Dems will start WWIII and we want to be indpendent by then, or well on the way towards it.


nate,

I have seen the maps of projected ash fallout, etc. None of it would reach northern New England, but, of course, the sun being blotted out would be a much larger concern. The point is, you wouldn't die from pyroclastic flows or ash, and you would have time to seek more hospitable locations outside of North America.

[Danya]

And in Texas our state legislature meets for only 120 days every 2 years. (I think they got it backwards and it should have been 2 days/120 years.):D

We currently have a candidate for US Senate running on a platform of secession - Larry Kilgore.

[SteveMartin]

Thanks swh...interesting links!

[tpreitzel]

Now, you're seeing the problem with the Free State project, i.e. getting people to give up their preferences for the sake of liberty. Since New Hampshire has already been selected, realistically only one more state can jump into the fray since the numbers just won't be there initially to secede. The other state needs to be considerably further west.

[Steveco]

Ron Paul has less than 20,000 precinct leaders... from all those voters and donors? Most people are followers, and that is ok. As long as they are following this movement.

The lady that runs our local group is awesome she is involved with both the campaign and meet up. We need her to seek local office also.

I did not sign up as a meet up member online till the one specific for elected delegates was put together after the caucus. I also did not sign up as a precinct leader online because I get tied of all the emails. I did meet with the local Ron Paul campaign that was not part of meet up(they contacted me after I donated to the campaign), pounded pavement, called and delivered my precinct for Ron Paul.

Still 20,000 is a great start that is 400 candidates per state that would be a huge part of the government, The message is contagious and spreading fast.

I hate to see people get distracted we can change this country if we keep doing what we are doing.

I am not being argumentative just trying to be optimistic.

[Steveco]

I do not oppose the free state project, I would just like for my neighbors and relatives to have freedom also.

[pinkmandy]

Then we take over our state and lead by example. :)

[tpreitzel]

I do not oppose the free state project, I would just like for my neighbors and relatives to have freedom also.

We all do, but realistically if your neighbors and relatives aren't committed enough to fight for their freedom, then maybe your friends and neighbors need to suffer more. Nobody wants to see people suffer needlessly, but many people just are too comfortably irresponsible until disaster knocks on their door. We're at the point that further delay is really too late. Yes, we need to continue to work within the current framework while preparing for the worst which will require seceding from the union... unfortunately.

[SteveMartin]

Pinkmandy,

YES!!

Look, I am not suggesting we quit the effort to get RP elected and to educate Americans, however, I am getting my Plan B ready....

[nigelwentworth]

When Texas joined the Union, there was a clause in the agreement that in the future, if so inclined, that the state may break itself up into as many as FIVE states. IF the state were broken up first, you could take one of the smaller of the five new states to form a NEW Republic of Texas!:)

[Prez22]

Well, someone tell me how we could take Texas with that population? It needs to be a state with less than 3-4 million people...

Okay..... using the Population theory, we could takeover several states out at once.

State July 2005
Alaska 663,661 - TOO COLD
Arkansas 2,779,154 - THIS COULD BE INTERESTING
Hawaii 1,275,194
Idaho 1,429,096
Maine 1,321,505
Montana 935,670
Nebraska 1,758,787
Nevada 2,414,807 - Possiblity, Mountains to the north, desert to the south
New Hampshire 1,309,940
New Mexico 1,928,384
North Dakota 636,677
Rhode Island 1,076,189
South Dakota 775,933
Texas 22,859,968 - Too Big
Utah 2,469,585
Vermont 623,050
West Virginia 1,816,856
Wyoming 509,294

Combinations

Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota 4,286,660

Maine, Vermon, New Hampshire 3,254,045

I'm in wherever this goes. I like the south but I don't see it being a possibilty, unless.... Texas, having been ruined by the NAFTA Highway someday, joins us in a combo of Texas, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota using the NAFTA Highway.

[FrankRep]

Pinkmandy,

YES!!

Look, I am not suggesting we quit the effort to get RP elected and to educate Americans, however, I am getting my Plan B ready....

I look at it this way:

Short Term Goal: Campaign for Ron Paul.

Long Term Goal: Create a Free State.

[pinkmandy]

I look at it this way:

Short Term Goal: Campaign for Ron Paul.

Long Term Goal: Create a Free State.


Amen. We can do both. My husband and I have been planning to move for awhile. We had already decided to sell the house come spring (we have a bit of equity so we can go low on the price). If we make anything (we should but if we don't we're just happy to sell it) that money goes into silver. And off we go...rent for awhile and sock away, save whatever we can.

[TXcarlosTX]

san antonio!!!!

spurs!! winning franchise
river walk!!! party time
steady real estate market
great weather
no tornado's
fiesta texas
sea world
border 2hrs away
state capital 45min away
I-10 and I-35 major highways run, great for commerce
taco stands!!!

[FrankRep]

san antonio!!!!

spurs!! winning franchise
river walk!!! party time
steady real estate market
great weather
no tornado's
fiesta texas
sea world
border 2hrs away
state capital 45min away
I-10 and I-35 major highways run, great for commerce
taco stands!!!

I love Texas. :D

[erin moore]

Personally Im not on the free state bandwagon. Im for affecting change to the extent that people are converted, so that there is a place where we can start a change in the system. change the country.

Montana. I'll just keep saying it.

Steveco- I am optimistic also. I am just trying to explain the reasons behind this porject over "everyone" running for office. people will move and vote and caccus and such, but most will not run for office themselves. Thats why I pointed ouit the numbers. They are great numbers BUT in terms of all the Ron Paul supporters out there, they number who have stood out as leaders are a monority and that will always be true. Thats not positive or negative, just an observable fact.

This is kind of like the "forget the moneybombs" idea, everyone donate when you can, all you can, etc. sure that would work if we all did it, but people rally behind an idea and a common goal.

we need our own state (as a jumping board for saving our nation)

Plase stop bringing up cities- and bring up places that we can take OVER a state legislature. that is a place with a low population where we can inject ourselves into state and national polotics in overwhelming numbers.

Montana.

[Diana]

Montana also might be a good choice as it's adjacent and north of Wyoming. However, we can't have too many states as we need a plurality of votes which requires bodies, probably at least 50,000 in Wyoming and 150000 in New Hampshire.

You need twice as many people as there are precincts in Wy (minus those of us already here) because PCs are the only people in WY that vote on some things (like presidential races for one) and they have to be voted in 2 years prior, or nab a vacancy. Two people per precinct to become PCs who get to vote, one male, one female, plus some people willing to vote them into the PC position, and the state's taken over completely. So, a whole lot less than 50,000, but people would have to be willing to get involved at the PC level. As much as I'd love to see you all move here and do that, it might be better for us all to get involved ourselves locally where we're at.

[haaaylee]

When Texas joined the Union, there was a clause in the agreement that in the future, if so inclined, that the state may break itself up into as many as FIVE states. IF the state were broken up first, you could take one of the smaller of the five new states to form a NEW Republic of Texas!:)



I like this idea. Form one around Austin, you'd already have the largest Ron Paul meetup group here, wouldn't be hard to join us.

[FrankRep]

I like this idea. Form one around Austin, you'd already have the largest Ron Paul meetup group here, wouldn't be hard to join us.

Plus with the NAFTA Superhighway being built I bet there will be a whole rebellion of people wanting to join us.

Lets not forget our Libertarian Party (http://tx.lp.org/) and Constitution Party (http://www.cptexas.org/) friends in Texas

[Columbia Blue]

How about New Mexico? Under two million population which is not an unimportant factor when you want to take over the state legislature, elect a Governor, and send two Senators and a handful of Congressmen to Washington.

Also believe it would be far easier in a unpopulated state to buy media( i.e. radio and television stations) to spread the message........It's also far warmer than New Hampshire or Wyoming.:)

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Let's decide which state to all move to, vote Ron Paul for President, and begin to formulate articles of secession. I'm serious...

Remember that only 3% of American males took up arms in the first revolution against King George. We've got better than 3%...

That's like saying, "we need our own mafia"

lolol

[erin moore]

columbia blue- youre on the right track but we need a state with proximity to Canada in stead of Mexico. (Mexica can and does allow people to be persued across its borders, Canada does not)

[tpreitzel]

You need twice as many people as there are precincts in Wy (minus those of us already here) because PCs are the only people in WY that vote on some things (like presidential races for one) and they have to be voted in 2 years prior, or nab a vacancy. Two people per precinct to become PCs who get to vote, one male, one female, plus some people willing to vote them into the PC position, and the state's taken over completely. So, a whole lot less than 50,000, but people would have to be willing to get involved at the PC level. As much as I'd love to see you all move here and do that, it might be better for us all to get involved ourselves locally where we're at.

Right... ideally ;) Maybe, the various Free State Projects should hold a meeting and outline precisely the numbers required and then add enough overhead to ensure the likelihood of success for each state, i.e. New Hampshire, Wyoming, and other possibilities. Realistically, even IF we ALL get involved locally, we're still NOT the majority. With caucuses, we do better, because we can gain control with minimal manpower. With primaries, we don't do so well which is another reason why we need a free state with sufficient numbers so we ARE the voting majority and having sufficient numbers of natives on board already is honestly needed for success. Time is running out unfortunately.

[SteveMartin]

We could also conceivably look at the option of getting a county or several counties to secede...Wouldn't necessarily have to be a whole state.

But, the important thing is to start soon. I agree with tpreitzel. We are running out of time.

[erin moore]

good luck with this. keep it bumped, I'm out for tonight.

MONTANA!


:)

[tpreitzel]

good luck with this. keep it bumped, I'm out for tonight.

MONTANA!


:)

Me, too. Time for sleep.

I'll second that motion - Montana or bust! :)

[MJfromCT]

How about Maine and Montana, eventually North Dakota and New Hampshire and work our way down. We have enough money and supporters for two states and it keeps our ideas spreading to different segments of the population.

[josephadel_3]

Would everyone shut up with this "I only wanna move to a warm weather state" crap. Look, I know it's winter time, but get over it. If it were summer time, you'd be begging to move North. Weather is completely irrelevant unless it is in the context of farming.


Texas is not an option.

Alaska - In November 2006, the Supreme Court of Alaska held that secession was illegal, Kohlhaas vs. State, and refused to permit an otherwise proper Initiative to be presented to the people of Alaska for a vote. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession
Don't know if that is relevant or not. Farming may be difficult in alaska, fishing is great. Easy to defend.

New Hampshire - Small, easy to take over, already libertarian, and already has a movement going on. Is bordered by other states, but New England isn't much of a military threat. DOES have a port in Portsmouth, so trade is possible. Immigration would be a pain in the ass.

Maine - The large Aroostook county in northern Maine was won by Ron Paul. Lots of potato farms, cheap land, lots of hunting, lack of jobs. Nice and close to Canada and maritime provinces.

Now we need to discuss our military, so McCain and his neo-con army can't take us over. Would we take over the Alaska National Guard? I though alaska had a lot of military bases, so that might be a problem.

This can't be based on where you would prefer to be based on weather, family, or recreational preferences. It has to be practical.

[jabrownie]

Look at the eastern half of Washington State.

They overwhelmingly supported Ron Paul in the caucus.
Close to the Canadian boarder.
Decent weather, (the rainy cold of the northwest is really only west of the Cascade mountains)

Actually, if you guys are serious, alaska would probably be best, if for no other reason then it's far away from the mainland; is huge in size, many of them are already don't tread on me types, has a surprisingly wide variety of climate so most people could be suitably happy, etc.

[MusoSpuso]

My analysis so far broken down logically and by the numbers:

* Population numbers is key. The reason for this statement is that we need to be able to exert enough political influence to eventually secede from the Union.

* Trade access is also of paramount importance. Two words: Sea access.

* Natural resources, renewable and otherwise are to be considered.

Starting from least populated and moving up :

1) Wyoming
Pros: Least populated. If just half (roughly 300,000) of everyone who has voted for Ron Paul moved to Wyoming they would exert a majority influence. Natural resources--coal, natural gas, oil, etc. Good tourism. Decent economy but mostly minging/agricultural in nature.

Cons: Land locked. For strategic, political and economic reasons this is simply a deal breaker. Most land owned by the Federal Government--Washington would not give this up without a major fight.

2) Vermont
Pros: 2nd least populated. Again, "relatively" easy to take over like Wyoming.

Cons: Again, land locked. Only one "pro". As far as natural resources or economy, nothing really sticks out.

3) Alaska
Pros: Natural resources. Oil rich. Sea access. Easily defendable--Canada as buffer/ally. Vast territory for settlement and population expansion.

Cons: none. Coming from a logistical, economical and strategic standpoint there's not much to complain about.

That's all I have time for now. Alaska to me seems to be the clear winner on a practical "by the numbers" standpoint. Feedback is most definitely appreciated especially from those more knowledgable about potential pros and cons for these states since I am by no means an expert. This is just a rudimentary report thrown together quickly :cool:

As far as the New Hampshire argument goes: I find it hard to consider due to the basic underlying population argument. If the free state project hasn't succeeded yet, just how many more people would it take to make it work? I'm certaintly open to argument on the matter...

[Russellk30]

Hey! How about California!!! Oh...I forgot. We are a bunch of liberal fools.:(

[Russellk30]

Montana! Cold in the winter, beautiful in the summer.

[RonPauledbyYoutube]

Ha, think big, think TEXAS!!! Good night everyone. It better to dream when you're sleeping.

[Carole]

I think they tried this about twenty years ago and it was put down.

[FrankRep]

I think they tried this about twenty years ago and it was put down.

The Mormons (LDS) took control of Utah, we could do the same with our state.

[Columbia Blue]

When the free state project started in New Hampshire, they were projecting 20,000 people moving there. I think they've ended up with about a thousand. The problem is that we can say the cold weather doesn't matter etc..but what it comes down to is......when people think of New Hampshire, Maine, or Alaska two words come to mind. Cold and Remote.

I'm not saying they won't work...I'm just pointing out it's going to be a harder sell than a warmer climate would be.

[TruthAtLast]

Montana. I'll just keep saying it.

Montana is beautiful for part of the year. My father has a large ranch up there. but it is CRAZY cold during the winter. Like way below 0 degrees. If you spit outside it would freeze before it hit the ground. :eek:

[WilliamC]

Okay...I'm gonna throw out....MISSISSIPPI...snows in the north..beaches in the south..everybody owns a gun...very unpopulated....Nice casinos..Good seafood..

Works for me :)

[thuja]

oregon is nice. we could grow some nice crops, even grapes.

[conqst3]

Come on People I want to slap you guys, to wake you up. I have not even heard anyone mention about the way the state government is set up, that is one of the most important things. New Hampshire was chosen for a reason as the free state project. The New Hampshire Constitution is damn near perfect..........
~There are 400 state reps, That's one state rep for every 3250 people.
~The state reps make $100 a year, which requires a constitutional amendment to change. ~Many state reps run un opposed, you can get a big chunk of votes by just being on the ballot.
~The 10 article in the bill of rights grants THE RIGHT TO REVOLUTION
~international border, and also a sea border

I could go on and on....do some reseach before you throw up your arms and say "it's too cold"

Go here for 101 reasons to movehttp://www.freestateproject.org/files/101-Reasons-to-Move-to-NH.pdf

~the free staters have a state wide newspaper such as the keene free press
~There are several tv shows such as free minds tv and keene weekly news
~youtube videos such as The ridley report
~Radio stations like Free talk live (FTL)
~The annual pocupine festival is where free staters gather
~there is a network of housing available for new movers
~many web forums around

I highly recommend doing more reseach on the free state project, it's where I learned about Ron Paul from, and I'm planning on moving there from Ohio (BTW the weather is not any worse, people exagerate)

~some good videos to watch http://current.com/items/88792912_rent_free



And for those who say it's not doing any good, it will work in NH before anywhere else. It will work If you get off your butt and get to NH. And quit typing on you computer that "it's too cold", "too far", etc. Nowhere is too cold or too far to create a free society.
I know what I'm doing after the whole Ron Paul thing is done, and the Free State Project is it for me, I've traveled all over this country, looking for a better place, and New Hampshire is as good as it gets, while still being able to have a job.

[conqst3]

Here is another good video it's a long one http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8929200413837159350&q=free+state+project&total=650&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5

[IDefendThePlatform]

I'd encourage everyone to check out the two existing free state movements:

New Hampshire (for everyone in the east)
http://freestateproject.org/

Wyoming (for anyone west of the Mississippi)
http://www.freestatewyoming.org/

Both websites have forums for discussion. The one for New Hampshire contains an archive of their discussion 3 years ago about which state would be best to move to. I think getting a lot of freedom loving people to move to one state is a great idea whose time has come. I think it could have a major impact on things not just in that state, but also in the rest of the country by being an example of how freedom can work.

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[SteveMartin]

Wow...so many choices. Hard to know what is best.

I think we probably ought to start with an assessment of the risks of military confrontation with the District of Columbia forces, and work forward from that assessment.

I think such an assessment may begin with looking at what it is we are proposing to take from them, and thus, how hard they would be willing to work (or fight) not to lose it.

From that aspect, maybe taking a whole state is too ambitious? Just a few succeeding counties somewhere would probably do the trick. Of course, they'd have to secede from their state first, and then from the D.C.-occupied zone.

[SteveMartin]

I really think we will be doing well to get 10-20,000 people to move under this project in enough time (before WWIII) to make any kind of difference.

What county folks?....we are definitely talking unreality if we think hundreds of thousands will move.

We are talking about a county now because to get out at all, we must get the people moved and get out now!

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

nt

[SteveMartin]

Does anybody know which of the counties where "free state" type movements are currently taking place in the various states has the highest percentage of current "free state" residents?

We may want to just supplement that, and get that county rolling towards secession....

[slamhead]

Reasons not to move to the Northwest:

It rains all the time, even summer
It is cold all the time, even summer
The Liberals assume they rule here and that you are liberal too
The streets are rolled up at sundown (which is 4:30 in the heart of winter)
The only thing to do on the weekend is to shop for second rate garbage at local mall (if you aren't canvassing for Ron Paul, that is probably more fun than most things up here)
If you want to open a restaurant in my town the total government fees are upwards of $100,000 if 100 tables
Portland food sucks outside of the few good downtown restaurants, which have waits of several hours
People are jerks for the most part,
and did I mention it is cold and rains all the time


You forgot about the stench of petuli oil.

[PennCustom4RP]

I say Pennsylvania...
The Original Revolution was conceived there.
The Constitution written there, what better place to defend it.
Borders Canada via Lake Erie.
Fertile farmland for crops, and mountains for defense. In fact these mountains are the Appalachian chain running all the way to Maine
Four regular seasons.
Pittsburgh and Philly are the population centers, Pennsyltuckey in between:D
In reality all the population is along the I-95 corridor, all the 'Upstate' areas are thin with people, all the way to Maine.
Thick with RP supporters!
I also like Maine and New Hampshire, and are half a day away from PA, these 3 could be outposts of freedom, taking back the entire NorthEast.

PA also Rejected Real ID

[SteveMartin]

Looks like there are only 500 "free staters" in all of NH....

http://www.freestateproject.org/about/states_count.php

...and I see nothing in their literature about working towards secession.


They have been at this how long? and accomplished how much?

Folks, we are going to have to concentrate on a county...preferably one with free staters already present and with a low population, and perhaps bordering on Canada...

[LittleLightShining]

Looks like there are only 500 "free staters" in all of NH....

http://www.freestateproject.org/about/states_count.php

...and I see nothing in their literature about working towards secession.


They have been at this how long? and accomplished how much?

Folks, we are going to have to concentrate on a county...preferably one with free staters already present and with a low population, and perhaps bordering on Canada...

Faux news on VT secession movement (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCkYCfeDM-I)
Official Second Vermont Republic Website (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1287877)

[Benaiah]

//

[scooter]

Amarillo, cold winters, mild summers. Texas, we're so big we got any climate you need.

I'm happy to see someone bring up Amarillo. I live in Indiana, but I basically have a second home there. I had some relatives in the area and fell in love with the place. You get to be in wide open Texas, but still have all climates.

Maybe we could just take over the western side of Texas where like 10% of the population is located. Or just the panhandle. You have tons of groundwater and wind to provide farming and electricity. I have no doubt that the Texas panhandle area could be self-sustaining.

[SteveMartin]

Well let's talk about which county in Texas then. Or NH, or any of the other states we have mentioned and see if we can coalesce around a particular county.

Montana is NOT going to be "taken over" with 20,000 people. 100,000 might do it though...

[Benaiah]

//

[SteveMartin]

Let's get out a map and look at Brewster and Presidio counties in SW Texas for a minute...Less than 15,000 people all told there now. Very mountainous and good for defense. Warm, but snows in the winter. Much bigger than Aroostook County, ME.

On the border....hmmm....Whatcha all think?

[Kacela]

A lot of effort went into deciding which state to move to by the Free State Project (http://freestateproject.org/):
After two years of exhaustive analysis, the Free State Project chose New Hampshire as its destination. New Hampshire was the first of the original colonies to declare independence from England, and its liberty-loving culture has persisted to this day. With its small population, strong economy, and superlative quality of life, New Hampshire is the best place for the liberty-minded to pursue the goal of small government.
These were all the states considered for the project:

Montana
Wyoming
Delaware
New Hampshire
Vermont
Maine
Idaho
North Dakota
South Dakota
Alaska


New Hampshire, here I come!:)

[FrankRep]

We're not going to take over jack. Look at how much of a failure the NH free state project was. Best thing we can do is find a place that we'd rather be when the coming collapse or dictatorship comes.


Myself, I'm looking for wide open space/wilderness to hide out in. A place where caves, lakes, and rivers abound.


[edit] BTW. I love hot weather. I want to move back to San Diego. I don't want to live in MT but I'm looking to survive the SHTF scenerio that is coming. Therefore, It's MT for me.

The NH Free State Project (http://www.freestateproject.org/) isn't a failure, people are slowly moving there. It's hard to uproot your life and move to a different state (or across the country).

518 have moved so far.
8231 plan to move.

This stuff takes time.

[SteveMartin]

No thoughts on Presidio and Brewster counties in SW Texas? Looks like beautiful country. I know there are already some like-minded folks there too...

Nye County, NV is also full of our types of people already....Ron Paul won their outright, and they brought in second place for RP for the entire state.

[SteveMartin]

Again, it would appear the "Free State Project" has no plan to secede....

[FrankRep]

Again, it would appear the "Free State Project" has no plan to secede....

I don't support seceding except an absolute last resort.

[SteveMartin]

I don't support seceding except an absolute last resort.

I thought we already agreed that's what the last 18 pages were about.

When Hitlery, Obama, or Bush on steroids (McCain) take over the White House, our "last resort" will have arrived.

[The One]

I'm happy to see someone bring up Amarillo. I live in Indiana, but I basically have a second home there. I had some relatives in the area and fell in love with the place. You get to be in wide open Texas, but still have all climates.

Maybe we could just take over the western side of Texas where like 10% of the population is located. Or just the panhandle. You have tons of groundwater and wind to provide farming and electricity. I have no doubt that the Texas panhandle area could be self-sustaining.

I live in Amarillo. I'm happy to answer any questions that I'm able to.

[The One]

BTW--You might want to consider that Pantex is located about 25 miles outside Amarillo. There are nuclear weapons stored there. God only knows what other kinds of crap goes on out there.

[Cleaner44]

State of Washington?

[Laja]

Austin, TX, the best feeling place in the country. Used to live in New York for most of my life. Way too cold and expensive. Austin is heaven. Don't be afraid of the heat. It only lasts 3-4 months. The rest of the year, the weather is paradise. Lots of Dems here, but if their stinky Obama gets messed over by the press or hacked voting machines, they'll be joining us.

[SteveMartin]

How is RP going to do in the "crown of Texas" area? (Amarillo)

[SteveMartin]

For those of us who are committed to starting our own state, we need to be on a border. What country in the world is surrounded entirely by another country without remaining totally dominated by that country??

Again, I really would like some feedback on Brewster/Presidio.

[Jeremy]

For those of us who are committed to starting our own state, we need to be on a border. What country in the world is surrounded entirely by another country without remaining totally dominated by that country??

Again, I really would like some feedback on Brewster/Presidio.

Well we already know you're trying to promote Maine since you live there :p

But ya... it's still one of the top states

If not Alaska for what you just said, but I doubt people are willing to go all the way to Alaska. Besides, it doesn't give a serious message to the US since it's so far away and isn't a part of the main 48

[The One]

How is RP going to do in the "crown of Texas" area? (Amarillo)

Honestly, probably about the same as he has everywhere else...not that good. Our meetup group has about 55 people, and only about a dozen of those people will actually get off their asses and do anything. The Lubbock group (Lubbock is the only other big city in the panhandle, about 125 miles south) is a little bigger and their members are more active.

Totally off the subject but an interesting, feel-good story.....The leader of our meetup group in Amarillo is a 17-year-old junior in high school. He has by far done the most work of anyone in the group. He stood out in freezing rain this past weekend to sign-wave when Bill Clinton's sorry ass came to the Amarillo Civic Center. It makes you feel good to see some signs of hope from that generation.:D

[SaratogaForRonPaul]

Alright, here is my argument for Vermont.

*Population 600,000, second smallest population after Wyoming.
*7% of the population already wants to secede
*Awesome Skiing
*Home of Ben & Jerry
*If we succeed, we can probably convince NH and Maine and the Canadians to join us.

[arctica2]

Haha, this is all fun and games, but 19 pages worth???

Buying an island might work but there is no way to ACTUALLY secede as a state. The pwnage of us would be hilarious.

I think we should talk about fundraising to buy an island rather than seceding from our country:D

[TruckinMike]

Texas Population: 23,507,783

New Hampshire Population: 1,315,828 (packed full of "northeast" minded collectivists)

Vermont Population: 621,254 (packed full of "northeast" minded collectivists)

Wyoming Population: 522,830 (stubborn conservatives... but at least they are NOT collectivist LIBS)


PS- Wyoming is totally energy independent, it has a huge cattle industry, and great skiing!.

PSS- There is already a movement heading there http://www.freestatewyoming.org/index.html


-- the views are great...http://www.terragalleria.com/images/np-rockies/grte0551.jpeg


"Home Sweet Home"?http://www.wyomingcabin.com/images/Img23.gif


TMike

[Prez22]

Well let's talk about which county in Texas then. Or NH, or any of the other states we have mentioned and see if we can coalesce around a particular county.

Montana is NOT going to be "taken over" with 20,000 people. 100,000 might do it though...

Steve....... I disagree. Montana is the best chance.


MONTANA

[ShowMeLiberty]

For those of us who are committed to starting our own state, we need to be on a border. What country in the world is surrounded entirely by another country without remaining totally dominated by that country??

Again, I really would like some feedback on Brewster/Presidio.

I'd move there.

Chances are my hubby and I will be moving to a different state within a couple of years or so anyway, and it will definitely be a state further south than Missouri. We were thinking Tennessee, but if a bunch of like-minded people start heading for Texas, we'd have no problem moving there instead.

The Free Republic of Texas sounds good to me! :)

[blakjak]

The problems today aren't caused by the state governments but rather by the federal government. Not sure how a new state would be any different - it would still fall under today's federal government.

[Anyeong]

Believe it or not, the housing over here is pretty slow, lot's of houses for sale...the average sale would be 92 days at least....that's what I heard on my local news

[mavtek]

The problems today aren't caused by the state governments but rather by the federal government. Not sure how a new state would be any different - it would still fall under today's federal government.

I think you are missing the point, we're talking about Secession here.

[Anyeong]

My husband makes the point that we might want to stay out of states that have several (or any) major military instilations in them. (He is active duty)


I disagree, the freedom virus would surely spread into those military bases. ;)

[Anyeong]

Couldn't we actually take over less populated states like the dakotas and wyoming. maybe even throw in Montana. I mean they have small populations so we could have a chance to influence the politics there... and in the Dakotas we have some good mountains to hide behind to shoot the Unionists neo-con/libs if they attack.

I think we should go for a state that's at least no stranger to being a country, and Texas seems to be the only state.

[pinkmandy]

I prefer warm weather, I do, but I'll go for NH because so much thought has already been put into it and we have a welcoming committee already there, preparing the path. I don't see the point in starting over if fellow freedom lovers have already done the research and gotten started. I appreciate their work and am thankful for having less to do on that front. I'm totally ok no plans to secede, plans are subject to change based on need. For now, I want to be safe, with likeminded people...people who are not sheep and won't look the other way when black cars come in the middle of the night to take folks away to fema camps. I want to live among people who will put up their own roadblock. ;) What did Franklin say about hanging together or assuredly we'd all hang seperately? That's where we're at imo.

See you in NH!!!! :)

[freedominnumbers]

I bet we could move to hawaii and create technology to harness the power of the volcanoes to transfer energy to the rest of the world. We'd all be so set for life supporting the rest of the world that we could hang out on the beaches all day.

[TruckinMike]

What country in the world is surrounded entirely by another country without remaining totally dominated by that country??

Don't secede... just follow the Constitution, and ignore all other FED mandates.Writings of our founders and even past supreme court decisions have stated such. A state could pull this off. Throw out the the IRS, the BATF, FBI and others. It would be easy if the majority of the population thought that way.

The Federal government would have to send troops in -- they would not. And if they did it would make IRAQ look tame. Why? Every hunter in Wyoming IS A SNIPER.

Ask what has caused the most concern to troops in Iraq -- IED's and Snipers.

(notice it was NOT fully automatic weapons)

TMike

[Anyeong]

www.texasnationalist.com

Texas Nationalist Movement

"This site is about Texas and Texans and is for Texans that love being independent. The whole world has heard about the Texas Independence Movement; if not in the news of recent years then in tales, verses, and songs from Texas. Texans are supremely proud of their heritage, culture, and history. "

[pinkmandy]

Don't secede... just follow the Constitution, and ignore all other FED mandates.Writings of our founders and even past supreme court decisions have stated such. A state could pull this off. Throw out the the IRS, the BATF, FBI and others. It would be easy if the majority of the population thought that way.

The Federal government would have to send troops in -- they would not. And if they did it would make IRAQ look tame. Why? Every hunter in Wyoming IS A SNIPER.

Ask what has caused the most concern to troops in Iraq -- IED's and Snipers.

(notice it was NOT fully automatic weapons)

TMike

Like Dick Cheney? The quail sniper? Lol.

I'm all for the state take over. Absolutely. Even if we don't secede we'd be like a different country compared to the other 49 states.

[SteveMartin]

Let me clarrify why I am proposing Brewster and Presidio counties in SW Texas. Again, we need to get a couple of counties to secede and then form our own state. (I use the word "state" more in the sense of "nation" here.)

Ideally, those counties should be:

1. Very low popluation deonsity (these 2 counties have less than 10 people per square mile.)
2. Be on the border. (These 2 are on the border with Mexico.)
3. Be ideally suited for defense or evasion. (These 2 counties looks like ideal terrain for those purposes. Bordered by a foreign nation on three sides, very mountainous terrain.)
4. Have an existing population that is not totally ideologically dissimilar from ours.

With an existing population of only 15,000, we just need 15-20,000 people to move in, and we will have something we've only ever dreamed of since the socialists took ours away--a country of our own!

[pinkmandy]

I don't think being on the Mexican border will be very helpful. I don't Mexico will be our "friend"- if anything I bet they would line up troops per the President's request along the border.

[Truth Warrior]

How about Rhode Island? I think we'd all fit in there. :D

[rexsolomon]

Don't secede... just follow the Constitution, and ignore all other FED mandates.Writings of our founders and even past supreme court decisions have stated such. A state could pull this off. Throw out the the IRS, the BATF, FBI and others. It would be easy if the majority of the population thought that way.

The Federal government would have to send troops in -- they would not. And if they did it would make IRAQ look tame. Why? Every hunter in Wyoming IS A SNIPER.

Ask what has caused the most concern to troops in Iraq -- IED's and Snipers.

(notice it was NOT fully automatic weapons)

TMike


I do suggest that all of you read Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" and find out what she meant by 'sanction the victim' and why it was necessary to create Galt's Gultch. The key is the prosperity brought by the group to the state. That is the proof that will make all other states listen. Nothing else will.

I know a nice sunny country with nice white sand beaches and blue clear oceans. Taking over a small island nation is far easier than taking over a state. Tall glasses with small umbrellas and slices of fruit anyone? :D

[SteveMartin]

Those two counties in SW Texas have less than one person per square mile...sorry about the error in my last post claiming it was 10 psm. Those 2 counties are the same size as Switzerland.

High timber country. Mexico surrounding us on three sides is not as nice as Aroostook County, ME being surrounded by Canada on three sides, granted, but we do have the Rio Grande in between. Plus, it is a lot warmer and may have better initial job prospects as well.

I like the idea of starting our own island nation as well, but it better have some high ground (tsunamis/sea level rises) be non-volcanic, and be arable and large enough to support hundreds of thousands of people. If such a place exists, let me no where, and I am all in favor of buying it and starting our own nation there...

[kipload]

Paul's support is already quite large as we seen in the primaries. They are HUGE second amendment folks. The population is relatively small so our numbers would make a larger impact per capita. They are absolutely opposed to the REAL ID, and are ruggedly self-reliant... Man I think I just convinced myself to move!

[SteveMartin]

Let's look for that perfect island, and buy it outright!!! Each of us can buy a chunk, or we can own the land in common--whatever.

Here's the first one I found. It's only 200 acres, but it's dirt cheap, still in North America, and very hospitable, climate-wise for all but the most wimpish hot-weather fans among us...lol...:

http://www.bcprivateislands.com/listings/heard_island/index.html

Let's all keep posting what we find! We really need a minimum of 5-10 square miles of arable land somewhere on an island with some high ground.

[Truth Warrior]

Own the land in common? ARRRRGH!

[Jeremy]

Let's look for that perfect island, and buy it outright!!! Each of us can buy a chunk, or we can own the land in common--whatever.

Here's the first one I found. It's only 200 acres, but it's dirt cheap, still in North America, and very hospitable, climate-wise for all but the most wimpish hot-weather fans among us...lol...:

http://www.bcprivateislands.com/listings/heard_island/index.html

Let's all keep posting what we find! We really need a minimum of 5-10 square miles of arable land somewhere on an island with some high ground.

http://www.privateislandsonline.com/unitedstates.htm

[SteveMartin]

Here is Koro Island in Fiji...1.26 square miles. Steep price tag compared to my last post:

http://www.caribbeanislandbrokers.com/Koro-Island-Beachfront/

[rexsolomon]

I like the idea of starting our own island nation as well, but it better have some high ground (tsunamis/sea level rises) be non-volcanic, and be arable and large enough to support hundreds of thousands of people. If such a place exists, let me no where, and I am all in favor of buying it and starting our own nation there...

Historically, it can be done. Take the case of Singapore. It took a single man - JUST ONE MAN (Lee Kwan Yew) to create and turn that place into the only truly prosperous island nation in Asia. [Not a precise comparison I know, but a good example of a successful take-over nontheless.]

What more for Dr. Paul and his legion of supporters? We won't find it too hard. Most especially if we focus on generating prosperity through the precepts of peace and freedom. Supporting businesses with badly needed disruptive innovations would also help.

[Jeremy]

500 acres in Maine for less than half a mil? I've only looked at the state of Maine on that site so far though... just lookin around =o

edit: "the island has only one other cottage on it and there are conservation easements in place which limit the total number of residences on the entire island to four."

[SteveMartin]

TW,

I hear ya. I could go either way, though, if everyone else was leaning towards a "Kibbutz-like" arrangement.

[acptulsa]

I'm inclined to say the Virgin Islands--if you're not afraid of hurricaines. Provided we can scrounge an effective navy, we've got our protection covered. Winning the natives over should be easy enough--just tell them that taxation without representation is tyranny!

Who needs a state? Let them keep fifty stars on the flag.

But if we really, really want a state or two, we should consider either New Mexico or the Dakotas. After all, either the Lakota Nation or the Navajo Nation are not only organized, but more than ready to tell Washington D.C. where to go. A lot of help and a lot of guns would convince them to just do it, I think.

[SteveMartin]

SC,

Maine islands are cold and largely inarable.

[mysticgeek]

Texas

[SteveMartin]

I am thinking more along the lines of a purchase now.

However, I still think you must somehow secede from whatever nation you purchase the island from...If it was a small enough island nation you bought from, we'd have little to worry about...

[SteveMartin]

1.5 square miles, only 3.5 million Canadian:

http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/sale/site/html/cms_de-sale_detail_en-1230/

[mczerone]

I've heard the calls for Texas, NH, MT, AK, and ME.

I think each has its merits, but each is ultimately untenable whether for economic, societal, geographical, or psychological reasons.

I would like to propose Michigan.

If population density is an issue, we can limit ourselves to the upper peninsula, which is the most likely large part of any state to change political alignment - much more likely than a couple of counties in South Texas with expansive land borders.

Geographically - Its too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer, but is not exposed any natural disasters save an occasional tornado or blizzard. It has no exposure to sea-levels, if those were to become a problem, and it is relatively insulated from global warming effects, however they are being predicted to arise.

Aside from Alaska and HI, there is no land more easily severed from the outline of the US than Michigan.

Politically, traditionally very blue Union cities, very red Farming country.

Michigan has been the Canary for the US, and she's about dead. US Steel policy and NAFTA(IMO) were the top contributers to the fall of the auto industry. The blue collar base has been used and abused here, and are ready for something else (we just need to convince them that there is less risk in joining our cause than just voting for the new promise-maker).

There is going to be an up-tick in the farming market here this year - barring a wide loss of the Sugar Beet crop. The cities will continue to lose population and money, the suburbs will, for the first time since the 50s, stop growing.

The only strategic limitation is negotiating passage of the Erie Canal to maintain access to the sea.

[SteveMartin]

6.56 square miles off the coast of Brazil for only $10.35 million.

http://www.privateislandsonline.com/boipeba-island.htm

This is the right size. If everyone gets 2 acres we have room for 2100 families--a population of 8-10,000! If we get 2100 people commited, that would be just $4,928 a piece. Then buidling costs...Not bad!

[SteveMartin]

McZerone,

Hmmm...lots of good logic to taking over the UP. What's the current population though. I know Marquette and Sault St. Marie are big towns....

[jpwilhelm]

I 2nd MI, The trail systems for dirt biking are great there. It is beautiful outside of SE MI. We just need to get rid of the neocons pro-Israel people in Oakland county. They would not let anything happen unless Israel gets something out of it, like money and weapons to kill Arabs.
We would have to burn Detroit / Flint area. and start over because it is just a cancer on the earths surface.

The UP sound great to me.

[Antonius Stone]

either Michigan or Montana.

[SteveMartin]

Larger but and much more expensive than Boipeba Island.

8.17 square miles for $95 million. Using 2 acres per person that is $36,437 each. It seems to have far fewer protective covenants than Boipeba though.

http://www.privateislandsonline.com/macapule-island-mx.htm

[amy31416]

I've read through the entire thread (because this is something I'm very interested in) and I'm still leaning towards Montana, as I always have. Reasons?

1. Lots of space.
2. On the border.
3. Results for RP were pretty good there.
4. I've looked at all the stats on the weather, crime rate, etc--pretty good!
5. Several politicians in place that are freedom-oriented.
6. Mineral deposits/coal/natural gas.
7. Many ranches/farming.

The downsides? Periodic drought, extremes in weather. Water supply is very important, so I'm still a bit torn.

[FSP-Rebel]

No way on MIch people, I need outta here. I'm going to NH because they have a major and growing activist base. The state also has one of the lowest ratios of people on government services. It borders the Atlantic, which would help facilitate trade abroad. It has alot of libertarian media such as Free Talk Live, Gardner Goldsmith on Manchester's 12p-3p major talk slot m-f, as well as the Keene Free Press, Free Minds TV and others that are starting up right now. Thousands are pledged to move in the coming years as well as myself. Open carry, no income or sales tax, anti-real id, are on the verge of de-crimming MJ, and the only state constitution that allows specifically for the right to revolution. People can make good points about other states or moan about NH whether, but in the end it is obvious that this is the way to go. VT appears to have their own secession movement, but I'm not gonna live in the peoples republic of VT. They'd be good neighbors to have. Either state is beautiful though. Since there's already a free state movement in progress, I'll pass on the rest. SC and TX are for sure 'no-goes.' Though SC does have this thing called the Christian Exodus. But, it should be clear that there's too much military presence in most southern states...

[MusoSpuso]

I've read through the entire thread (because this is something I'm very interested in) and I'm still leaning towards Montana, as I always have. Reasons?

1. Lots of space.
2. On the border.
3. Results for RP were pretty good there.
4. I've looked at all the stats on the weather, crime rate, etc--pretty good!
5. Several politicians in place that are freedom-oriented.
6. Mineral deposits/coal/natural gas.
7. Many ranches/farming.

The downsides? Periodic drought, extremes in weather. Water supply is very important, so I'm still a bit torn.

Montana does have appeal and the reasons quoted are good. However, the fact that there is no access to international trade and is surrounded by other countries (Canada and the Communist States of America) is a deal breaker for me. Also, the population while relatively low is still high enough to make the prospect of "taking over" the state more difficult than some of the other less populated states.

[SteveMartin]

Here is an even larger Brazilian Island for sale. 11.6 square miles for just $4.25 million.

At 2 acres per settler that works out to only $1146 each for 3707 families.

http://islands.glo-con.com/property.php?property_no=AD29_8574

[SteveMartin]

Another slightly bigger Brazilian island with no price quoted:

http://islands.glo-con.com/property.php?property_no=AD17_8574

[FrankRep]

I'd rather not start from scratch on a small island. I'd rather take over a state.

[MusoSpuso]

I'd rather not start from scratch on a small island. I'd rather take over a state.

I agree.

I have heard no compelling argument for buying an island other than the novelty of it.

[acptulsa]

I've read through the entire thread (because this is something I'm very interested in) and I'm still leaning towards Montana, as I always have.

As long as it's seceding anyway, why not? With the Lakotas next door, Alberta above and Wyoming below, there's plenty of growth potential, and we can tap Old Faithful for geothermal energy. Little to cold for some of you? Just give global warming a few more years and it'll be downright tropical!

[cazeringue]

Louisiana.... We could over take it. Texas also have the Bushs, LBJ etc.

[acptulsa]

Louisiana.... We could over take it. Texas also have the Bushs, LBJ etc.

Might not need to take it over. No love lost between them and the rest of the U.S. at the moment.

[amy31416]

Montana does have appeal and the reasons quoted are good. However, the fact that there is no access to international trade and is surrounded by other countries (Canada and the Communist States of America) is a deal breaker for me. Also, the population while relatively low is still high enough to make the prospect of "taking over" the state more difficult than some of the other less populated states.

The trade thing is a problem, admittedly. I don't think the population is a problem though, what was the percentage that voted for Ron Paul in the primary? 25%? And I may be wrong, but I don't recall a huge push to get votes there, the people of Montana are educated and certainly welcome more freedom. Has any other state had this high of a percentage for RP so far?

So, the population of Montana is about 944,632. . .and while I know this isn't a very valid method of extrapolation...if 25% of them are or are potential RP supporters--that's 236,158 supporters already there. I have to try to find the actual number of voters though...not having much luck with that.

[SteveMartin]

The advantage of buying a large island somewhere is there would be little-to-no threat of violence from the monsters in charge of this country. If Montana secedes, I'm there though, but I wouldn't count on it...not by a long shot.

[amy31416]

As long as it's seceding anyway, why not? With the Lakotas next door, Alberta above and Wyoming below, there's plenty of growth potential, and we can tap Old Faithful for geothermal energy. Little to cold for some of you? Just give global warming a few more years and it'll be downright tropical!

I'll have to study it more, but I would think that living near the mountains might cut back a bit on some of the weather extremes. I do also like having the Lakotas close by--anyone know how their secession is going?

I've also read that many Montanans are armed...Wyoming would be a good neighbor to have.

Granted, I practically grew up in Canada so the weather is a little less problematic for me, but we humans are adaptable! Apparently there are some ghost towns in MT as well, I bet the land's pretty cheap there!

[acptulsa]

As for trade, well there aren't a lot of people in the Northwest Territories. If Alberta joins us, we can roll over enough of it to get a foothold on the Hudson Bay. Again, with global warming, we can have access to both the Atlantic and the Pacific.

[Libertytree]

As bad as I hate to say it, anywhere in the continental US you are a willing target. They will steamroll us, propodandize us well beyond what the Davidians incurred. Make no mistake folks, WE are the ENEMY and they have us tracked, logged and numbered already.

[acptulsa]

As bad as I hate to say it, anywhere in the continental US you are a willing target. They will steamroll us, propodandize us well beyond what the Davidians incurred. Make no mistake folks, WE are the ENEMY and they have us tracked, logged and numbered already.

That was one of the advantages of Montana. They have silos for us to take over full of missiles we can point at D.C. "Don't tread on us!"

[LibertiORDeth]

The main problem is that we probably couldn't get every RP supporter to move here. I wouldn't count on 2 million, maybe 100,000 if lucky.

[LibertiORDeth]

The Northwest loves Paul and they are surrounded by... the Pacific Ocean and Canada

I wouldn't have to relocate if we did Washington...

[LibertiORDeth]

Reasons not to move to the Northwest:

It rains all the time, even summer
It is cold all the time, even summer
The Liberals assume they rule here and that you are liberal too
The streets are rolled up at sundown (which is 4:30 in the heart of winter)
The only thing to do on the weekend is to shop for second rate garbage at local mall (if you aren't canvassing for Ron Paul, that is probably more fun than most things up here)
If you want to open a restaurant in my town the total government fees are upwards of $100,000 if 100 tables
Portland food sucks outside of the few good downtown restaurants, which have waits of several hours
People are jerks for the most part,
and did I mention it is cold and rains all the time


I live in Eastern Wa, and it it NOT cold or wet.

[Libertytree]

There is no advantage anywhere and especially where there are munitions of any sort let alone those capabilities involved. I wish I could envision a brighter outcome but I can't.

[LibertiORDeth]

The only big draw backs with Hawaii are the volcanoes and the cost of living...

1 Million an acre anyone?

[LibertiORDeth]

THINK- its not illegal yet. and LEGALIZE the constitution!

O yea!

Or how about:
Ron Paul For The Long Haul!

Might seem a little too cultist though...

[amy31416]

There is no advantage anywhere and especially where there are munitions of any sort let alone those capabilities involved. I wish I could envision a brighter outcome but I can't.

So what do you suggest? Status Quo? Roll over? Remain slaves paying taxes to fund a brutal, illegal, pre-emptive war under Hillary, Obama or (god forbid) McCain?

[LibertiORDeth]

You don't need a passport to leave southern US if you're going to northern US... lol =o

But going to Paulstown WILL require a passport, since it won't be America anymore :p

[Question_Authority]

If you want to talk about weather, consider NH actually. I live here and am constantly grateful that we have no (or very rare) "deadly weather". No tornadoes, no hurricanes, no mudslides, little or no flooding issues, also no forest fires. Yes, it is cold in the winter, but winter can be really fun! I learned to love it! And you can too with the right attitude.

On the other hand, I think weather should have very little to do with this conversation.

If you want freedom, I don't think weather should be a factor.

Either way, NH is an ideal choice.