Tax Rebate BS

[jkm1864]

Hey am I stupid or is giving people money when they only made 3,000 dollars a year total Bullshit. I mean the average middle class family is spending 120 hours a week or more trying to live the so called good life while someone whom makes 3,000 dollars a year isn't doing crap. I mean come one if You work for 5 dollars an hour for 40 hours a week that is 10,000 dollars a year in 52 weeks. These people are only working like 10 - 15 hours a week and I am supposed to feel bad that they are poor.

I get so frustrated because I work on a boat away from my family 7 - 9 months a year with very few comforts living in confined space with dirty smelling dudes. Now I realize that is my choice in what I do to make a living. Now this is America the so called land of opportunity and plenty so would it stand to reason that people are poor in this country due to choice?

Now people think I am a jerk because I get uptight about taxes especially when I am taxed like 3.5K for a months worth of work. Now they say You're a jerk its for the POOR. These people act like if You are poor it's a infliction from GOD that can never be over come what soever.

Now let these people be on the loosing end and have to work 84 hours a week and have 33% of their check taken from them. I would imagine that these assholes that call me heartless will get pissed off real quick. These people would probably walk into a post office and blow people away if they had to spend all their time on call and away from their family 7 - 9 months a year living in gas station bath room conditions....


Tell me I am a selfish bastard because right now I am praying for economic collapse so the lazy pukes will starve like they deserve. I mean come on Jesus even said the poor will be around forever but He will not be around forever. You know what that means to me? It means that there will be people that work harder than others to get ahead while others will do just enough to get by. I am so tired of this unfair un-constitutional tax system that is robbing me of my reserves.

The DEMS want to help out all the POOR people that are loosing their homes... Oh poor people "pat on the head" we will help you... Now what happens when I loose my house .... Nothing You rich Asshole You made 77k last year.. You know if I had 33% more money especially when I worked like a mad man and stayed out of country 9 months my House would be paid off.

I wonder how many POOR people stay away from family and friends 9 months a year just to house their children and work toward a common family goal. I guess I am just a fool for going the extra mile and working for raises every year. We the middle class knows that the best raise You can get is to get knocked up out of high school and live a totally irresponcible life.

What do the poor really have to worry about in this country. Please tell me I want to know. We have families living in middle class homes paid for by HUD. You goto walmart and You can tell who is on welfare and whom is not by just looking into their cart. These people don;t worry about bills at all while working Americans have to worry every day weather We will loose our homes or not.

You know the LA riots happened because one black man was beat down by some idiot cops. I wonder when the American tax payer is going to get pissed off and RIOT because whats done to us is alot worse than some dude we don't even know getting beat down. Am I wrong for feeling like a slave?

[PauliticsPolitics]

you will likely find little dissent in this forum.

[Kalash]

You are a slave.

And it's time to rebel... shed the chains that bind you... And... oh! Look!
There a Second Declaration of Independence (http://new.revolutioni.st) sitting there waiting for you to sign it!

Declare your freedom, revoke your consent, and show your "servant" who the master is.

[robert4rp08]

I stopped reading after "Hey am I stupid or is giving people money"

No one is giving anyone money. It's a tax credit in advance of next year's tax refund.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Is wealth distribution a conservative principle? lol. That's what they're doing!!! You know, I thought that was something the socialists wanted? hmm

[nodope0695]

I stopped reading after "Hey am I stupid or is giving people money"

No one is giving anyone money. It's a tax credit in advance of next year's tax refund.

Dude, its money out of thin air...and the guy's point is that some lazy schmuck who'd makes all of $3000 a year gets the same amount as a hard working middle class dude who busts his ass 40++ hours a week.

He makes a good point wherein perhaps being poor is due alot to personal choice...and I agree with him. In this welfare, entitlement rich state we live in, IT PAYS TO BE POOR. I hate to say it, and forgive me it your on it, but most people I've met on welfare are LAZY.

Yes, LAZY. They have become beholden to Daddy Government. They are slaves every bit as much as we are...except with them, it is worse. They (the lazy ones) LIKE being slaves...All they do is work just enough to get by so that the welfare check comes every month...then they pay the $250 Section 8 rent for an apartment a person like me would have to pay $800 for. The rest they use to buy 47 inch plasma televisions and 22" rims for their P.O.S. used police cruiser. If you don't beleive me, move to a large city, get out of the subburbs, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

You say you stopped reading after, "Hey am I stupid or is giving people money..." Why don't you read the rest...the guy speaks THE TRUTH...and if you read my signaure, you'll see what the truth is good for. Ciao.:)

[nodope0695]

Is wealth distribution a conservative principle? lol. That's what they're doing!!! You know, I thought that was something the socialists wanted? hmm

Amen, brother (or sister). Not only is it wealth redistribution, it is money out of thin air...it is FASCIST/COMUNIST in nature.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Amen, brother (or sister). Not only is it wealth redistribution, it is money out of thin air...it is FASCIST/COMUNIST in nature.

lol. It's extremely pathetic. They propose and pass these socialistic programs and then they preach about smaller government and free markets? Total hypocrites. And, guess what? They get away with it. True conservative voters STILL vote for these socialists that parade around as believers of the free market. It's ridiculous! :D. This is NOTHING but wealth distribution. I can't imagine the Democrats fighting this? Maybe fighting for MORE money to distribute (err steal and waste). Your party and your government...corrupt. No doubt about it. This is all just the systematic draining of the US treasury, why do you think they went to Iraq in the first place? To drain the economy, give the money to their friends and deal out contracts left and right. They're robbing you...us. It's not about oil, it's about the contracts.

[Myerz]

How did Ron vote on this?

[rodent]

Hey am I stupid or is giving people money when they only made 3,000 dollars a year total Bullshit. I mean the average middle class family is spending 120 hours a week or more trying to live the so called good life while someone whom makes 3,000 dollars a year isn't doing crap. I mean come one if You work for 5 dollars an hour for 40 hours a week that is 10,000 dollars a year in 52 weeks. These people are only working like 10 - 15 hours a week and I am supposed to feel bad that they are poor.


So I left the working world to go back to school. I picked up a university job where they gave me a tuition credit. I lost a lot of salary switching jobs but managed to pick up $12000 in tuition benefits in 2007. Guess what? That $12000 is taxable income. God damned ridiculous. They want me to go to college (graduate school), get a higher education, but then they want to tax me on 12k income I never actually made.

So basically, I'm getting taxed on something that was granted to me for "free" in exchange for labor. The costs get tacked on as taxes.

These idiot democrats talk about making college affordable, but I blame this mess on them (and the big govt republicans.)

[GoRon2008]

I feel your pain.

I made $75,000 and paid over $20,000 in taxes and now I apparently owe them $4,000 more!!! What the hell is $300 gonna do for me? My stoner friend said "sweet, I can buy some weed". I work my ass off and owe $4,000... my friend doesn't do shit and gets money. This system is so fucked.

I am supporting my girlfriend and she is having a baby any day.

And they take my money cause Im "rich" while the lazy bastards around us want their "free" health car and handouts. Who the hell do they think has to pay for it? WE DO!!!

I earned my heath care and I feel if you haven't earned yours... tough shit, get a new job.

It makes me sick every time I think about it.

[Eponym_mi]

No one is giving anyone money. It's a tax credit in advance of next year's tax refund.

Horse shit! A lot the people getting this tax credit never paid tax to begin with. And even if it was an advance on next year's tax refund, who is to say they're currently working and will pay any tax? This is redistribution of wealth plain and simple.:rolleyes:

[robert4rp08]

Dude, its money out of thin air...and the guy's point is that some lazy schmuck who'd makes all of $3000 a year gets the same amount as a hard working middle class dude who busts his ass 40++ hours a week.

He makes a good point wherein perhaps being poor is due alot to personal choice...and I agree with him. In this welfare, entitlement rich state we live in, IT PAYS TO BE POOR. I hate to say it, and forgive me it your on it, but most people I've met on welfare are LAZY.

Yes, LAZY. They have become beholden to Daddy Government. They are slaves every bit as much as we are...except with them, it is worse. They (the lazy ones) LIKE being slaves...All they do is work just enough to get by so that the welfare check comes every month...then they pay the $250 Section 8 rent for an apartment a person like me would have to pay $800 for. The rest they use to buy 47 inch plasma televisions and 22" rims for their P.O.S. used police cruiser. If you don't beleive me, move to a large city, get out of the subburbs, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

You say you stopped reading after, "Hey am I stupid or is giving people money..." Why don't you read the rest...the guy speaks THE TRUTH...and if you read my signaure, you'll see what the truth is good for. Ciao.:)

Dude. I know. The stimulus plan is pure stupidity. I just wanted to clarify what the "rebate" actually was because I just learned it was a "tax credit" not an actual rebate the way the gov is selling it.

[robert4rp08]

Horse shit! A lot the people getting this tax credit never paid tax to begin with. And even if it was an advance on next year's tax refund, who is to say they're currently working and will pay any tax? This is redistribution of wealth plain and simple.:rolleyes:

Yes... I know. ^^^

[spudea]

I stopped reading after "Hey am I stupid or is giving people money"

No one is giving anyone money. It's a tax credit in advance of next year's tax refund.

Refunds are going to people who don't even pay taxes. The IRS has said that even if you don't pay taxes, to be sure and file a tax return so you can get your $300 check.

[spudea]

How did Ron vote on this?

I'm pretty sure he voted no.

[naga_warrior]

While I don't necessarily agree with you guys, you do have some valid points. The system is messed up. But the point of the refund check is to try to stop the recession/depression. They are trying to get people to spend money. So yes, you might have worked a lot more then poorer people, if they don't have money, they can't spend it. So it is giving them money to put INTO the economy. Now people are going to do exactly the opposite and horde the money. So no matter how stupid this plan was to begin with, it is likely to fail even more because of this. And everyone that works 20 hours a week isn't lazy. I am a college student at a engineering school, going to school full time, and I am working 20 hours a week. I would hardly call my self lazy. So yes, I believe I deserve this check just as much as you do when your working 40 hours a week.

[Libertytree]

I look at it as a bipartisan bribe, to make the sheeple think they actually care and are doing something to help them.

One lady said to me that I should be happy and grateful for their efforts on this. I replied to her that I would be happy and grateful if they would stop stealing from me the $100.00 or so that they take from me very week.

That's sadly the mindset we are up against.

[Fyretrohl]

RP voted No.

And, for me, I plan to do my part to screw with the package. I am not 'spending' it. I will actually be using it to pay my taxes for this year. :)

And, save the rest.

[homah]

While I don't necessarily agree with you guys, you do have some valid points. The system is messed up. But the point of the refund check is to try to stop the recession/depression. They are trying to get people to spend money. So yes, you might have worked a lot more then poorer people, if they don't have money, they can't spend it. So it is giving them money to put INTO the economy. Now people are going to do exactly the opposite and horde the money. So no matter how stupid this plan was to begin with, it is likely to fail even more because of this. And everyone that works 20 hours a week isn't lazy. I am a college student at a engineering school, going to school full time, and I am working 20 hours a week. I would hardly call my self lazy. So yes, I believe I deserve this check just as much as you do when your working 40 hours a week.

I couldn't care less what they intend for us to do with the money. The fact is, it's welfare if you receive more back than you've paid in taxes. If you work 20 hours a week, you probably don't fall into this category, though you certainly don't deserve as much as people who have made more money. If they're going to do this, I don't see why it isn't done as a percentage rebate on taxes paid for 2007.

[naga_warrior]

I couldn't care less what they intend for us to do with the money. The fact is, it's welfare if you receive more back than you've paid in taxes. If you work 20 hours a week, you probably don't fall into this category, though you certainly don't deserve as much as people who have made more money. If they're going to do this, I don't see why it isn't done as a percentage rebate on taxes paid for 2007.

You don't understand the point. If they were to do what your saying it would work even less....The point is to put money into the economy. If you give more tax breaks to the rich, they are not going to spend any more money then they already do...Poor people will...It isn't about being a tax break, its about helping the economy....(How ever stupid the plan is)

[belian78]

I feel your pain.

I made $75,000 and paid over $20,000 in taxes and now I apparently owe them $4,000 more!!! What the hell is $300 gonna do for me? My stoner friend said "sweet, I can buy some weed". I work my ass off and owe $4,000... my friend doesn't do shit and gets money. This system is so fucked.

I am supporting my girlfriend and she is having a baby any day.

And they take my money cause Im "rich" while the lazy bastards around us want their "free" health car and handouts. Who the hell do they think has to pay for it? WE DO!!!

I earned my heath care and I feel if you haven't earned yours... tough shit, get a new job.

It makes me sick every time I think about it.
congrats on the baby, btw. :)

[homah]

You don't understand the point. If they were to do what your saying it would work even less....The point is to put money into the economy. If you give more tax breaks to the rich, they are not going to spend any more money then they already do...Poor people will...It isn't about being a tax break, its about helping the economy....(How ever stupid the plan is)

I understand the point and disagree with it on principle. I am saying that giving back a percentage of taxes paid would be more fair, even if it won't "work" as well in the short-run (I put work in quotes because I question what they even mean by stimulating/fixing the economy -- I think the market should be allowed to self-correct, even if it takes longer than this plan would).

[wv@SC]

This stimulus package is NOT going to work as we are sadly going to see with the next year or so. Where is the money coming from?

You know, we just spent (and sadly continue to spend) millions of $$$ on an unconstitutional war in Iraq that we can't afford in the first place, and then Mr. Bush decides to "help" the economy by basically borrowing more money from China or print it out of thin air via the Fed. It is just making the dollar more worthless driving the national debt what seems like forever upward!

We will be paying back whatever we get in the stimulus package, mark my words!

[naga_warrior]

I understand the point and disagree with it on principle. I am saying that giving back a percentage of taxes paid would be more fair, even if it won't "work" as well in the short-run (I put work in quotes because I question what they even mean by stimulating/fixing the economy -- I think the market should be allowed to self-correct, even if it takes longer than this plan would).

As I have said, I doubt it will work. But more tax breaks for the rich would work even less. My main point I was just referencing people in this thread calling people lazy that work 20 hours a week. And that is not always the case.

[Cinderella]

the gov wants people to be on welfare and not work....listen to my story quik...

i got pregnant at 21 yo....i was in nursing scool...i thought i could get on welfare for the time being until i finished school (i kno welfare, what was i thinking?? well i was young) anyway i applied and they told me i didnt qualify for welfare because i worked too many hours and made too much money (i was only making 200-300 a week)...they asked me to quit my job so i could recieve welfare....problem with that is the money from welfare wouldnt have been enough to pay my rent and bills etc...then they said well we can get u sec 8...ok i asked how long do i have to wait...they told me about 2 or 3 years.....hmmm....they said the wait would be only a few months if i agreed to live in a shelter....so i figure ok well maybe i can qualiify for foodstamps...i apply and again im denied because they said i made too much money....

funny how these programs "help" people....in order to recieve the aide id have to quit my job and move into a shelter??? lmfao.............well i ended up working fulltime and going to nursing school fulltime had my daughter and finished up my degree shortly after...it was the hardest thing ive ever had to do, but i did it....

so i totally feel where ur coming from....i get so damn mad to see people selling their food stamps for money...or getting nice apartments and only having to pay 8 dollars a month (AND STILL PAY LATE!!!!) its just pathetic!!!

then they get rewarded for doing nothing?!?! and we have to pay this back in 09??? all it is, is an advancement of our own money....i dont undrstand this whole tax rebate thing...i dont think ill be using mine...ill probably just donate it to ron paul or ill send it to my family in colombia where they could really use it

[TruthAtLast]

Dude, its money out of thin air...and the guy's point is that some lazy schmuck who'd makes all of $3000 a year gets the same amount as a hard working middle class dude who busts his ass 40++ hours a week.

He makes a good point wherein perhaps being poor is due alot to personal choice...and I agree with him. In this welfare, entitlement rich state we live in, IT PAYS TO BE POOR. I hate to say it, and forgive me it your on it, but most people I've met on welfare are LAZY.

Yes, LAZY. They have become beholden to Daddy Government. They are slaves every bit as much as we are...except with them, it is worse. They (the lazy ones) LIKE being slaves...All they do is work just enough to get by so that the welfare check comes every month...then they pay the $250 Section 8 rent for an apartment a person like me would have to pay $800 for. The rest they use to buy 47 inch plasma televisions and 22" rims for their P.O.S. used police cruiser. If you don't beleive me, move to a large city, get out of the subburbs, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

You say you stopped reading after, "Hey am I stupid or is giving people money..." Why don't you read the rest...the guy speaks THE TRUTH...and if you read my signaure, you'll see what the truth is good for. Ciao.:)

I agree 100%. I'm sick of working my ass off to get ahead only have it stolen from me and given to some lazy bastard who doesn't have the same ambition. And I don't want to heard the insane argument about "well you had more opportunity to get where you are". I never graduated college and instead used my own ingenuity to build wealth. I learned skills on my own.

But my wages will pay for someone else to go to college, and for someone else's house, and food. It will pay for services for illegal aliens who don't pay taxes at all.

All of it is just collectivism. The Government WANTS to wipe out the middle class. That is exactly how they plan to rule the world. If everyone is poor and completely dependent on the "State" then there is total control.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1208131&postcount=17

[naga_warrior]

See I don't understand your mentalities I guess. We all here agree that the economy is in trouble. And while it looks like we all agree that this isn't the best way to fix it, it is happening this way no matter what. So why not make it work the best it can work. Try and help the economy out just a little bit? Even if it isn't much it is better then nothing. In order to do that, the money needs to be spent in America. Yes donating to Ron Paul counts because he will spend it here.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

You don't understand the point. If they were to do what your saying it would work even less....The point is to put money into the economy. If you give more tax breaks to the rich, they are not going to spend any more money then they already do...Poor people will...It isn't about being a tax break, its about helping the economy....(How ever stupid the plan is)

Actually, poor people won't. Look up "permanent income hypothesis." It's well accepted economic theory that one time payments don't change spending habits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_income_hypothesis

[Mr. White]

Here's the deal guys: We have an imperfect system. We have raised several generations on welfare. Contrary to what many of you think, the vast majority of welfare recipients do work, do pay taxes and do try to better themselves. The Section 8 apartments they live in aren't palaces, the food stamps they get don't ccover everything and nothing about their existance is certain.

We have a lower class in this country that is incredibally ignorant in terms of economic planning. Likewise, the welfare system that we have in place is not a catch-all. Typically, as illustrated by the nursing school case above, circumstances exist to disqualify those who exceed the maximum income allowed to receive benefits. We are partly to blame for this. Rather than modifying requirments and guidelines, we simply cut budgets across the board. Lifetime recipients of welfare know all the ins and outs, but the veryday joe that needs assistance may get the shaft.

Welfare exists because we did (and still do) have the poor and homeless dying in the street. Sometimes this is a result of poor life choices, sometimes a result of random circumstance, sometimes a result of disability. Whatever the case, that is unacceptable. What has come out of this is a system that catches as many people as possible, but is still shitty enough to make living on it uncomfortable long term. Some people can accept it, some people can't.

I personally tolerate the welfare sytem and recognize the need for improvement. You cannot simply solve the problem by cutting off the money. We need to focus on funding education and training for these people. Even if we do that however, we will still see a sizable welfare system and the inevitable leeches that accompany it.

I understand the anger, but rather than reacting harshly when injustices such as these occur, we should instead focus on fixing the system. Harsh, ultimate declarations simply result in two sides desperately trying to get as much money as possible or no money at all. Fools deal in absolutes.

[Libertytree]

If the true desire is to help the economy and the intent is purely in the interest of circumventing a recession then why stop at the $600 threshold?

Why not print or borrow more dollars if it's really that important to the U.S economy? Why not give everyone $5000?

The stimulus package will cost $168 billion, for the 2 year plan.

The defense budget from the discretionary funds are $481 billion and that's not including requests for Iraq or Afganistan, tack on another $150-$175 billion for the 2008 War on Terror.

It's ALL BS!!!! We're bankrupt, it's all an illusion that's ready to crumble.

[lisajames96]

Refunds are going to people who don't even pay taxes. The IRS has said that even if you don't pay taxes, to be sure and file a tax return so you can get your $300 check.

apologies ahead of time, i didn't read through all the pages. My question is, can we opt out of this refund? And wont we have to pay it back the next year?
-lisa

[Libertytree]

Depending on your income level, you may see up to $600 per person, with an additional $300 per child. The rebate starts out at $300 per person, but rises to $600 per person to match the taxes you will pay based on your 2007 Adjusted Gross Income (AGI). Your AGI is generally lower than your salary, and is based on your earnings after tax deductions such as 401(k) and Traditional IRA investments and other qualified deductions. However, if you earn above a set limit, you may receive less than $600. The tax rebate decreases by $50 for every $1,000 earned above $75,000.

This tax rebate actually is a rebate against your 2008 taxes, even though they have not yet been filed. Even though this rebate is actually for your 2008 taxes, it will be based upon your 2007 AGI. When you file your 2008 taxes in early 2009, the calculation will be run again. If you should have received a larger rebate, the treasury will send you another check to make up the difference. This would apply to people who had children during 2008, or those whose 2007 AGI was above $75,000, but dropped below that level in 2008. If you income rises and you would have received a lower rebate, you get to keep the difference. In either case, you do not have to pay back any of this rebate.

[golf247]

While I don't necessarily agree with you guys, you do have some valid points. The system is messed up. But the point of the refund check is to try to stop the recession/depression. They are trying to get people to spend money. So yes, you might have worked a lot more then poorer people, if they don't have money, they can't spend it. So it is giving them money to put INTO the economy. Now people are going to do exactly the opposite and horde the money. So no matter how stupid this plan was to begin with, it is likely to fail even more because of this. And everyone that works 20 hours a week isn't lazy. I am a college student at a engineering school, going to school full time, and I am working 20 hours a week. I would hardly call my self lazy. So yes, I believe I deserve this check just as much as you do when your working 40 hours a week.

This is a false premise, though. You cannot spend your way out of a recession without a corresponding increase of capital goods in the market. The people that argue for this are the same ones who believe the money supply needs to be elastic.

All this rebate will do is increase the demand for the existing supply of goods. Econ 101 tells us this will result in higher prices. Now, the amount of money added to the system isn't significant in the grand scheme of things so you won't see big price jumps, but don't be shocked if we see a slight bump by the time the checks get here.

But, hey, the American public will feel good that their government is working for them, so they'll be happy. Makes me sick.

[Libertytree]

As Milton Friedman said "There's no such thing as a free lunch". We will pay very dearly for the economic poicies and money schemes that our government has engaged in, it's just a matter of when the piper insists on being paid.

The sad thing is most people can't fathom the nightmare that will shortly befall each and every one of us.

[Laughingcow]

I couldn't care less what they intend for us to do with the money. The fact is, it's welfare if you receive more back than you've paid in taxes. If you work 20 hours a week, you probably don't fall into this category, though you certainly don't deserve as much as people who have made more money. If they're going to do this, I don't see why it isn't done as a percentage rebate on taxes paid for 2007.

% is gooooooood

[lisajames96]

Depending on your income level, you may see up to $600 per person, with an additional $300 per child. The rebate starts out at $300 per person, but rises to $600 per person to match the taxes you will pay based on your 2007 Adjusted Gross Income (AGI). Your AGI is generally lower than your salary, and is based on your earnings after tax deductions such as 401(k) and Traditional IRA investments and other qualified deductions. However, if you earn above a set limit, you may receive less than $600. The tax rebate decreases by $50 for every $1,000 earned above $75,000.

This tax rebate actually is a rebate against your 2008 taxes, even though they have not yet been filed. Even though this rebate is actually for your 2008 taxes, it will be based upon your 2007 AGI. When you file your 2008 taxes in early 2009, the calculation will be run again. If you should have received a larger rebate, the treasury will send you another check to make up the difference. This would apply to people who had children during 2008, or those whose 2007 AGI was above $75,000, but dropped below that level in 2008. If you income rises and you would have received a lower rebate, you get to keep the difference. In either case, you do not have to pay back any of this rebate.
Thanks for the explaination. I still would like to opt out. It's not free money. I can't help but feel that it will hurt us in the end because it creates a false business cycle. Businesses will react to the flood of money, but then when the consumer spending is down again, they will be stuck with extra head counts, extra inventory, on, and on...it will still fail in the long run.

[therealjjj77]

It's a total farse. You pay about 50% of your income and virtually none of it goes to benefit you. In reality, you could take that money and take care of 4-5 poor people in your church and help them get on their feet for far less then you're spending now for the government to line their coffers while sending out a welfare check every once in a while.

I have always contended that the best place for charity is in an organization where you personally know and hold accountable both the administrator and the recipient. In that type of a situation do people not only derive satisfaction from doing such acts of charity(if they choose), but there is also an increase in productivity in the recipient because of the expectation from their close community to contribute back.

In a scenario like social security where you do not personally know the administrator nor the recipient and you do not get to choose if you send in the money or not, the money disappears, gets wasted, and the small amount that makes it to the intended recipients only encourages them to be unproductive.

[WV Freedom Fighter]

168 billion more debt that we owe for this "stimilus package". It's a short term "fix" and will only hurt us more in the long run. I can't believe Congress doesn't understand that.

[mconder]

...and the guy's point is that some lazy schmuck who'd makes all of $3000 a year gets the same amount as a hard working middle class dude who busts his ass 40++ hours a week.

No doubt...I should be getting back 15K if it was proportional to my income vs. a person making 3K per year! Not to mention, the average person on welfare probably get $500x2 income earners, plus 300x8 children. That's $3,400 for a poor family with 8 children vs. the 1,600 or so that a middle class cat gets with 2 children.

[Libertytree]

Lisa,

I don't think you can opt out, though I could be wrong. If you sent it back you don't know that they will ever recognize that you indeed opted out. You do have options though, 1. Stick it in the bank and forget about it and use it next year for any tax liabilities you may incurr. 2. Use it to stock your pantry with canned goods, you very well might need them. 3. Buy gold or silver and sit on that for a year, you just might make a lil money in the process. 4. Use it to pay off any debt.

[rodent]

I personally tolerate the welfare sytem and recognize the need for improvement. You cannot simply solve the problem by cutting off the money. We need to focus on funding education and training for these people. Even if we do that however, we will still see a sizable welfare system and the inevitable leeches that accompany it.


What's the point of job training if the corporate overlords want foreign labor instead?

[Laughingcow]

Thanks for the explaination. I still would like to opt out. It's not free money. I can't help but feel that it will hurt us in the end because it creates a false business cycle. Businesses will react to the flood of money, but then when the consumer spending is down again, they will be stuck with extra head counts, extra inventory, on, and on...it will still fail in the long run.

Can we opt out?

[Laughingcow]

Lisa,

I don't think you can opt out, though I could be wrong. If you sent it back you don't know that they will ever recognize that you indeed opted out. You do have options though, 1. Stick it in the bank and forget about it and use it next year for any tax liabilities you may incurr. 2. Use it to stock your pantry with canned goods, you very well might need them. 3. Buy gold or silver and sit on that for a year, you just might make a lil money in the process. 4. Use it to pay off any debt.


Silver, Silver, Silver!!!!!

[FreedomFighter8008]

Don't get me started. I'm not getting any money back (because I made "too much" money - meaning I paid a bucket load of taxes) while people who didn't even pay any taxes are getting money back. WTF? How is that fair and how the heck does that qualify as a "rebate"?

[Libertytree]

"I can't believe Congress doesn't understand that."

They know what's going on! Ron Paul has been in their ass telling them for years. Those people aren't stupid, they're just covering their ass for the time being. You can bet that have a fall back plan when this house of cards collapses.

[rodent]

168 billion more debt that we owe for this "stimilus package". It's a short term "fix" and will only hurt us more in the long run. I can't believe Congress doesn't understand that.

I can believe it. Have you listened to some of the retards in Congress? In a perfect world I'd be able to kick Rangel in the butt and knock some sense into him.

[Libertytree]

The language Congress actually used is "prebate", though they didn't think the average person would understand it and resorted to using rebate, while in most cases it's a freebate.

[Libertytree]

LOL...Rangel, hahahaha.

They got that smuck to intorduce the Involuntary Service Acts, disguised as some political stunt. They know what they're doing!

[Devil_rules_in_extremes]

Hey am I stupid or is giving people money when they only made 3,000 dollars a year total Bullshit. I mean the average middle class family is spending 120 hours a week or more trying to live the so called good life while someone whom makes 3,000 dollars a year isn't doing crap. I mean come one if You work for 5 dollars an hour for 40 hours a week that is 10,000 dollars a year in 52 weeks. These people are only working like 10 - 15 hours a week and I am supposed to feel bad that they are poor.

I get so frustrated because I work on a boat away from my family 7 - 9 months a year with very few comforts living in confined space with dirty smelling dudes. Now I realize that is my choice in what I do to make a living. Now this is America the so called land of opportunity and plenty so would it stand to reason that people are poor in this country due to choice?

Now people think I am a jerk because I get uptight about taxes especially when I am taxed like 3.5K for a months worth of work. Now they say You're a jerk its for the POOR. These people act like if You are poor it's a infliction from GOD that can never be over come what soever.

Now let these people be on the loosing end and have to work 84 hours a week and have 33% of their check taken from them. I would imagine that these assholes that call me heartless will get pissed off real quick. These people would probably walk into a post office and blow people away if they had to spend all their time on call and away from their family 7 - 9 months a year living in gas station bath room conditions....


Tell me I am a selfish bastard because right now I am praying for economic collapse so the lazy pukes will starve like they deserve. I mean come on Jesus even said the poor will be around forever but He will not be around forever. You know what that means to me? It means that there will be people that work harder than others to get ahead while others will do just enough to get by. I am so tired of this unfair un-constitutional tax system that is robbing me of my reserves.

The DEMS want to help out all the POOR people that are loosing their homes... Oh poor people "pat on the head" we will help you... Now what happens when I loose my house .... Nothing You rich Asshole You made 77k last year.. You know if I had 33% more money especially when I worked like a mad man and stayed out of country 9 months my House would be paid off.

I wonder how many POOR people stay away from family and friends 9 months a year just to house their children and work toward a common family goal. I guess I am just a fool for going the extra mile and working for raises every year. We the middle class knows that the best raise You can get is to get knocked up out of high school and live a totally irresponcible life.

What do the poor really have to worry about in this country. Please tell me I want to know. We have families living in middle class homes paid for by HUD. You goto walmart and You can tell who is on welfare and whom is not by just looking into their cart. These people don;t worry about bills at all while working Americans have to worry every day weather We will loose our homes or not.

You know the LA riots happened because one black man was beat down by some idiot cops. I wonder when the American tax payer is going to get pissed off and RIOT because whats done to us is alot worse than some dude we don't even know getting beat down. Am I wrong for feeling like a slave?


I feel ya, even though I'm poor. I'm also in college. I take no handouts and I certainly feel the pain of inflation.

[lisajames96]

Silver, Silver, Silver!!!!!
I'm way ahead of ya, but DH is not letting me buy anymore, even with the refund. I will take the advice and save it, or donate it.
I wont spend it! I have family members who habitually work 3 months out of the year and received over $4000 back and we both work our butts off, away from our kids all day and we OWED money! I am tired of this whole system.
I was online today researching growing gardens so I can make sure we have a source of food in the future(if you knew me, you'd know how strange that is).
My hubby just wants the whole thing to collapse on the US to serve us right, but that scares me because we have 3 very little children...ranting over:mad:

[BigRedBrent]

but most people I've met on welfare are LAZY.

Yep, that sums me up. But to be fair I think I may have some mental problems, but I am to lazy to go and get it diagnosed. :D

But hey, at least Bush is sending me some money for nothing, that I intend to use for the Ron Paul campaign. I may have problems, but I try not to be selfish. I still try to do what is right even though it may hurt me the most. If only more people would do what was right even if it would be detrimental to themselves.

[TruthAtLast]

It's a short term "fix" and will only hurt us more in the long run.


Wrong. it wont fix anything. Not even in the short term. This is not going to increase consumer spending. People will save it (for future debt like the next house payment) or pay off existing debt (like a credit card).

And based on the explanation given previously in this thread where $50 is taken off for each $1000 you make above $75k... well I guess I'm getting something like NEGATIVE $6200. Woooo Hooo!

I'm not living in luxury and don't even own a home. But I guess my financial responsibility is punished. I didn't graduate from college but my tax dollars will go to help someone else in college. I made a responsible life choice NOT to have kids right now, but I guess I get FUCKED for that too, don't I? No $300 for me!

Meanwhile, feel free to take 33% of my earned wages (plus more because of the AMT).

Now this is the American Dream.... let's penalize productivity and ambition. Yay!