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View Full Version : RP needs to replace the amatuers running his campaign




max
08-14-2007, 11:52 AM
RP's people have only managed a small congressional race. This is a different animal and there performance to date has been awful. Iowa was an opportunity for a breakout that will now be delayed.

It's almost September and we're still playing the "Who is Ron Paul" game. A Iowa victory or a 2nd place would have gotten us past this "Who is" stage. Thats why Iowa was important.

They totally blew it by not fighting and barely spending anytime in Iowa. . Iowa was not a setback, but nor was it the boost we could have easily had had if they spent some time and money there.

The ads they ran in Iowa SUCKED!

They need to directly ATTACK the front runners. Brownback did well because he boldly attacked Romney while RP's people were running TV ads about "Letters of Mark and Reprisal?"....are you fucking kidding me?

Huckabeee did well because of his pro-life message because Iowans WERE NOT EVEN AWARE that RP was a baby doctor with impeccible pro-life credentials.

Tancredo did well because he stressed the immigration issue while Iowans weren't aware that RP is just as solid as Tancredo on immigration.

RP should be ATTACKING the vulnerable frontrunners relentlessly while making his name synonymous with abolition of the IRS and the folly of this war. How about some TV ads with coffins of dead and maimed US troops? How about an ad showing what RP said during the first debate when he was asked about shutting down the IRS and replied "immediately"

Emotional hot buttons and images are what triggers publicity and interest. Ron Paul's two greatest moments were one : 1. When he was asked about abolishing the IRS during MSNBC debate...and 2. When Rudy went after him (altough RP blew a chance to hit back at Rudy)

If RP's campaign people continue to play nice-nice with these milk toast ads.....they'll never inspire the masses. There is a reason why the Establishment media bitches about "negative ads"......THEY WORK!

Anyone who thinks RP has a shot at this WITHOUT running hard hitting ATTACK ads is living in a fantasy.

angelatc
08-14-2007, 11:53 AM
Forget it. Pauls is never going to hire a bunch of slick insiders, and I don't want him to.

If you want him to get more exposure, then send him more money.

UtahApocalypse
08-14-2007, 11:56 AM
The truth hurts, good post.

max
08-14-2007, 11:58 AM
it's not about being 'slick"...i'm talking about telling the truth while attacking.

This may not apply to you....but Joe six pack and suzy soccer mom wont be inspired until you touch their emotions with simplistic emotional images based on truth.

angelatc
08-14-2007, 11:59 AM
Maybe it is true, but he has said over and over that he doesn't have the deep pockets that the other candidates do. There's talk of Tancredo dropping because he's so far in debt. He may have done well, but that won't matter if he doesn't finish the race.

I liked the ads. Maybe it's because I'm from the midwest and things are slower here.

LibertyEagle
08-14-2007, 12:01 PM
We can't control what the campaign does. All we can do is control ourselves and possibly, create an organization within the grassroots to operate the way we wished the HQ did.

The commercials were not that great, because they were done at the last minute. We do the very same thing at the grassroots. With few exceptions, most everything we do is on an emergency basis. We are very good at short bursts of tremendous activity; however, imagine what we could do if we actually strategically planned something and executed that plan over time.

FSP-Rebel
08-14-2007, 12:03 PM
Maybe it is true, but he has said over and over that he doesn't have the deep pockets that the other candidates do. There's talk of Tancredo dropping because he's so far in debt. He may have done well, but that won't matter if he doesn't finish the race.

I liked the ads. Maybe it's because I'm from the midwest and things are slower here.
It sure would be nice to pull in the Tancredo crowd in soon. Considering most Tancredoites would lean towards Paul rather than Romney, we coulda won the IA poll for sure.

MsDoodahs
08-14-2007, 12:03 PM
Don't you just hate it when you know exactly what the other feller should do but, dammit!

he just won't listen to you?

;)

Slugg
08-14-2007, 12:03 PM
RP's people have only managed a small congressional race. This is a different animal and there performance to date has been awful. Iowa was an opportunity for a breakout that will now be delayed.

It's almost September and we're still playing the "Who is Ron Paul" game. A Iowa victory or a 2nd place would have gotten us past this "Who is" stage. Thats why Iowa was important.

They totally blew it by not fighting and barely spending anytime in Iowa. . Iowa was not a setback, but nor was it the boost we could have easily had had if they spent some time and money there.

The ads they ran in Iowa SUCKED!

They need to directly ATTACK the front runners. Brownback did well because he boldly attacked Romney while RP's people were running TV ads about "Letters of Mark and Reprisal?"....are you fucking kidding me?

Huckabeee did well because of his pro-life message because Iowans WERE NOT EVEN AWARE that RP was a baby doctor with impeccible pro-life credentials.

Tancredo did well because he stressed the immigration issue while Iowans weren't aware that RP is just as solid as Tancredo on immigration.

RP should be ATTACKING the vulnerable frontrunners relentlessly while making his name synonymous with abolition of the IRS and the folly of this war. How about some TV ads with coffins of dead and maimed US troops? How about an ad showing what RP said during the first debate when he was asked about shutting down the IRS and replied "immediately"

Emotional hot buttons and images are what triggers publicity and interest. Ron Paul's two greatest moments were one : 1. When he was asked about abolishing the IRS during MSNBC debate...and 2. When Rudy went after him (altough RP blew a chance to hit back at Rudy)

If RP's campaign people continue to play nice-nice with these milk toast ads.....they'll never inspire the masses. There is a reason why the Establishment media bitches about "negative ads"......THEY WORK!

Anyone who thinks RP has a shot at this WITHOUT running hard hitting ATTACK ads is living in a fantasy.

1st, I think the campaign hasn't even started. We haven't gone toe-to-toe with anyone just yet...and that's a good thing. It's part of running a Dark horse campaign. It's too early to stick his head out (I think)...we don't have the resources to fight a long drawn out fight.

The campaign is going to have to make every 'shot' count....

pyrazole2
08-14-2007, 12:04 PM
So you're a RP supporter, but you want RPHQ to be your 'nanny state'? Kind of flies in the face of the philosophy,

We're doing 'sneak attack ads'....and I think we're well beyond the "Who is RP?" era...at least in my locale. Why don't you get out there and change a few minds? Three or four people a day and we have this thing made.

Oh, and the people at HQ are doing a very good job in my opinion. Thanks to them, we'll have RP on the ballot!

Dustancostine
08-14-2007, 12:05 PM
Rove's available and a Texan :)

max
08-14-2007, 12:07 PM
pyra..

Meetup groups are a great supplement to the campaign...but do u seriously believe we can make up for RP's unwillingness to attacK?

"nanny state"....what a preposterous statement. I dont have the money to run a good TV attack ad...do you?

That's HQ's responsibility

ronpaulhawaii
08-14-2007, 12:09 PM
RP's people have only managed a small congressional race. This is a different animal and there performance to date has been awful. Iowa was an opportunity for a breakout that will now be delayed.

It's almost September and we're still playing the "Who is Ron Paul" game. A Iowa victory or a 2nd place would have gotten us past this "Who is" stage. Thats why Iowa was important.

They totally blew it by not fighting and barely spending anytime in Iowa. . Iowa was not a setback, but nor was it the boost we could have easily had had if they spent some time and money there.

The ads they ran in Iowa SUCKED!

They need to directly ATTACK the front runners. Brownback did well because he boldly attacked Romney while RP's people were running TV ads about "Letters of Mark and Reprisal?"....are you fucking kidding me?

Huckabeee did well because of his pro-life message because Iowans WERE NOT EVEN AWARE that RP was a baby doctor with impeccible pro-life credentials.

Tancredo did well because he stressed the immigration issue while Iowans weren't aware that RP is just as solid as Tancredo on immigration.

RP should be ATTACKING the vulnerable frontrunners relentlessly while making his name synonymous with abolition of the IRS and the folly of this war. How about some TV ads with coffins of dead and maimed US troops? How about an ad showing what RP said during the first debate when he was asked about shutting down the IRS and replied "immediately"

Emotional hot buttons and images are what triggers publicity and interest. Ron Paul's two greatest moments were one : 1. When he was asked about abolishing the IRS during MSNBC debate...and 2. When Rudy went after him (altough RP blew a chance to hit back at Rudy)

If RP's campaign people continue to play nice-nice with these milk toast ads.....they'll never inspire the masses. There is a reason why the Establishment media bitches about "negative ads"......THEY WORK!

Anyone who thinks RP has a shot at this WITHOUT running hard hitting ATTACK ads is living in a fantasy.

Easy to be an task chair consultant, much different in the trenchs. What are your creds for such a boisterous opinion? The negative tone makes me wonder...

I don't know if I would call a congressional race against The Machine "small". A better finish would not have got us past the "Who is" stage. It merely would have made more wonder. The fact remains that most Americans wonder "What is a Straw Poll?" and "Where is Iowa?

I attended a productive MU, donated to HQ, and a booth at a local NY fair, and handed out flyers yesterday, how about you?


Forget it. Pauls is never going to hire a bunch of slick insiders, and I don't want him to.

If you want him to get more exposure, then send him more money.

I tend to agree here.


The truth hurts, good post.

Intriqueing yes, good? not so sure...

ctb619
08-14-2007, 12:10 PM
Rove's available and a Texan :)

Nice :D

Unfortunately RP would have to sell his soul to the devil to make that happen.

Scribbler de Stebbing
08-14-2007, 12:11 PM
The commercials were not that great, because they were done at the last minute. .

Part of their point is that the ads should not have been last minute. I was disappointed with the feet-dragging over Iowa, but also wonder if it would have done any good to have dumped a couple million into it. Maybe it would have put us in fourth place, but unless you hit second, the press doesn't care.

We've seen some mistakes such as the snafu with Operation Spooner, but that kind of thing can happen on any campaign.

I'd say, let's not worry about HQ. 1) Ron Paul is not going to dump his loyal staff for a slicker team, so we'd waste our time belly-aching over it, and 2) we ARE the shadow campaign. Anything we see them not doing, we can do, with limited exceptions. So we get snubbed by staffers at events because we're not paid members of their clique. WE know who does the real work around here, and WE know who is paying their salary.

MsDoodahs
08-14-2007, 12:13 PM
Easy to be an task chair consultant, much different in the trenchs. What are your creds for such a boisterous opinion? The negative tone makes me wonder...



Same here.

Scribbler de Stebbing
08-14-2007, 12:13 PM
Rove's available and a Texan :)


Nice :D

Unfortunately RP would have to sell his soul to the devil to make that happen.

It would be certain to get press coverage. RP's soul, or press coverage . . . RP's soul, or press coverage . . . Would they spell his name right?

Ron Paul Fan
08-14-2007, 12:13 PM
You say that Dr. Paul's campaign managers are amateurs and have only run small Congressional campaigns. Have you ever ran a Presidential campaign max? Exactly. I think it's best to let the professionals do their jobs and we'll give them money so they can do their jobs better and spread the word ourselves through word of mouth. The damn Iowa caucus is about 5 months away and like Kent Snyder said, the campaign is just beginning. Ron Paul now has a decent base and will need to expand on it. There are a lot of debates coming up September-November to launch preemptive strikes, although that's really not Ron Paul's game. For God's sake, people aren't even paying attention to the Presidential races yet so what good would it do to blow all of Dr. Paul's money at a meaningless straw poll?

specsaregood
08-14-2007, 12:14 PM
max, always with the negativity and insults.

I trust RP and his experience. I think IA would have been a waste for him to put EVERYTHING into. Time to move on. Do what you can.

For every negative thing you post here; try doing something positive in the REAL WORLD.

ARealConservative
08-14-2007, 12:14 PM
I understand the frustration. If it wasn't for all the hard work from the non-paid volunteers, this straw poll would of been a complete disaster.

We could of done far better, but we need HQ's help.

Personally I think they should of either just skipped the straw poll, or played it to win. Visiting a few towns the week prior to the event didn't do much in the grand scheme of things. We never played to win.

Just imagine if we still managed a 5th place finish even while skipping the event. I think that would of been a bigger story then showing up and finishing 5th.

remaxjon
08-14-2007, 12:14 PM
Ron Paul has gone from a complete unknown to the biggest thing on the internet. He has over 30,000 meetup members and his campaign grows everyday.

Dr Paul likes to give us all the credit and many of us take it and pat ourselves on the back but if you think the people running the campaign don't have anything to do with it your crazy. Dr Paul is not the first libertarian leaning republican to ever run for office.

If anything the people running his campaign need to be thanked. They have spent wisely and the message is growing. Dr Paul is now in perfect position to go after NH. The people running his campaign are teh reason why

max
08-14-2007, 12:15 PM
what concerns me more than the non-effort in iowa is the weakness of the ads.

REPEAT: If RP does not laaunch blistering attack ads, he will have no chance.

thats the truth. Deal with it.

Kregener
08-14-2007, 12:17 PM
Rove's available and a Texan.

And a neocon.

And a statist.

And a glad-hander

And a power junkie.

And a...well, you get the idea.

MsDoodahs
08-14-2007, 12:18 PM
RP did exactly what he needed to do in Iowa: decent showing with almost nothing spent.

It is the grassroots campaign - US - that fell down on the job.

Dominic
08-14-2007, 12:18 PM
One of the primary things that makes me like Ron Paul so much is his integrity. I'd think much less of him if he got involved too heavily in the mud-slinging.

I may be an extreme minority on that, but just about all the RP supporters I know personally feel the same way.

LRitz
08-14-2007, 12:19 PM
It sure would be nice to pull in the Tancredo crowd in soon. Considering most Tancredoites would lean towards Paul rather than Romney, we coulda won the IA poll for sure.


I was in Iowa and i had many Tancredo people tell me Ron Paul was their second choice...some said they'd like a Tancredo/Paul ticket. Several Huckabee people told someone in our group that Paul was their second choice too.

max
08-14-2007, 12:21 PM
dont think for a second that an RP supporter and average american boob are the same animal.


we are intellectual and free thinkers...they are sheep. Like it or not, the only way to win sheep is with emotion.

We need an ad with flag draped coffins and Bush joking in the background about we didnt find WMD's....(ever see that video?...disgusting)

MsDoodahs
08-14-2007, 12:22 PM
what concerns me more than the non-effort in iowa is the weakness of the ads.

REPEAT: If RP does not laaunch blistering attack ads, he will have no chance.

thats the truth. Deal with it.

Nothing stopping you, Max, from launching your own "blistering attack ads."

A friend of mine (RIP, Granny B) had a bulldog named Max.

I always hated that damned dog...it slobbered everywhere and barked a lot.

:p

Ninja Homer
08-14-2007, 12:22 PM
what concerns me more than the non-effort in iowa is the weakness of the ads.

REPEAT: If RP does not laaunch blistering attack ads, he will have no chance.

thats the truth. Deal with it.

Attack ads just give more attention to the person being attacked. There were a lot of attack ads aimed at Bush. Did that make him lose?

Ron Paul doesn't have enough name recognition yet, so any ads should focus on that.

Spirit of '76
08-14-2007, 12:22 PM
max, always with the negativity and insults.


He's from New Jersey. I think it's something in the water. ;)

JPFromTally
08-14-2007, 12:23 PM
If Rove can get a shithead elected... What do you think he could do with RP?

Scribbler de Stebbing
08-14-2007, 12:24 PM
It sure would be nice to pull in the Tancredo crowd in soon. Considering most Tancredoites would lean towards Paul rather than Romney, we coulda won the IA poll for sure.

Just hope we didn't chase them off in Iowa with the "I Smoke Pot and I Vote" signs, and by yelling at the bus riders about war.

Mort
08-14-2007, 12:24 PM
Right now the stumbling block for Ron Paul is his unknown status. Negative adds don't really help there. They just knock down the other candidates. It would also be hard to choose the candidate to knock down at the moment. We don't really know the leader per se. Once Ron Paul is better known then maybe attack ads would be advisable.

specsaregood
08-14-2007, 12:25 PM
//

max
08-14-2007, 12:25 PM
[QUOTE=MsDoodahs;124648]Nothing stopping you, Max, from launching your own "blistering attack ads."


If I had millions dont u think is run my own attack ads? Only HQ can do this but they havent got the balls.

Look, RP may be infallible when it comes to economics and the constitution....but this is about PR (something I happen to do for a living)

EMOTION IS WHAT SELLS....

pyrazole2
08-14-2007, 12:25 PM
No, I don't think it's their responsibility, it's their perogative. I don't pretend to be a political scientist, but the last time I watched a presidential ad was in 1983 (I was 8 and didn't know better). I'm doing what I can right here, right now. If we can organize to put ads on the air, then let's do it....but...I don't think any accusation of HQ staff is going to magically put attack ads on the air.

You are right though, I don't have the money to run an ad, but HQ does or course. Maybe they just don't have the time to make one....maybe you or someone else could work on that. Or compile a presentation regarding what markets would be best targeted and/or where we would get the most bang for the buck. Any of that would be helpful. Who knows, even if HQ doesn't use it, maybe we could...I envision one day, these forums will be moving so fast, you'll misplace your posts.

Also, I think we need to look beyond the TV, newspaper, or the Internet...marketing is going into very unusual realms, we need to tap into things like that. Product placement! Or we could go the V for Vendetta route and just blow things up.

Nefertiti
08-14-2007, 12:27 PM
All of us here are amateurs supporting Ron Paul as we best know how. Do you suggest we all stop too Max?

Hook
08-14-2007, 12:30 PM
This is why centralized control will never be as good as the marketplace. You don't need to worry about RPHQ. Just do your own thing. Get some friends together and make your own ads. Like Lord Xar (Even though he has been a prick to me lately), he does a good job with the ads. HQ is a small part of the whole operation. It is entirely up to you to make it work.

beermotor
08-14-2007, 12:30 PM
People who post this kinda drivel make me yawn. If you want to attack, then do it. There's plenty of avenues. Stop waiting on someone else to fight your battles for you.

In any event, aggression will never win. Yeah, Brownback's such a GREAT EXAMPLE, ain't he? Gimme a break.

jj111
08-14-2007, 12:31 PM
One of the primary things that makes me like Ron Paul so much is his integrity. I'd think much less of him if he got involved too heavily in the mud-slinging.

I may be an extreme minority on that, but just about all the RP supporters I know personally feel the same way.

One person whom I catalyzed to search the Internet and watch a Ron Paul video to learn about him included this positive feedback about Ron Paul: "I noticed he didn't demonize anyone."

To some people, that is a plus.

Dominic
08-14-2007, 12:32 PM
dont think for a second that an RP supporter and average american boob are the same animal.


we are intellectual and free thinkers...they are sheep. Like it or not, the only way to win sheep is with emotion.

We need an ad with flag draped coffins and Bush joking in the background about we didnt find WMD's....(ever see that video?...disgusting)

Yes, I've seen that video, and I understand what you are saying. Emotion is important. In fact, I agree with you that the ads put out by the campaign don't stir up the emotions until you have applied your mind to the wondrous principles of liberty that saturate them.

So, I think they could do better to draw out more artistically, perhaps with better music, or whatever else, the strong principles and messages that are already there.

But while that is true, I don't think negative emotions that are the result of blatant personal attacks are the way to go. The positive message of life and liberty, I think, strikes at the very core of most Americans and stirs them to something much greater than a negative message can.

max
08-14-2007, 12:33 PM
Pat Buchanan actually beat Bob Dole in NH because of his hard hitting attack ads.

The only reason why Pat fizzled was because he didnt have the financing network to fight the Dole machine nationally on Super Tuesday. This was pre-Meetup - pre-You Tube days. many folks didnt even have Internet in 1992 and 1996.

Buchanan also came in a close 2nd in NH against a SITTING president (Papa Bush) in 1992, again, by brutal attack ads. For those of you too young to recall, pat B made quite a stir.

His attacks were made all the more efffective by the media's attention to them.

Attack works....of course, the donations need to keep coming in because Super Tuesday decides everything (20 states!)

Hook
08-14-2007, 12:33 PM
We have so much education to do, I don't see how we have enough time for mud-slinging.

Hook
08-14-2007, 12:34 PM
Negative attacks are usually from people with no real message themselves

Mort
08-14-2007, 12:35 PM
The way to win is for people to want to vote for you. You can't win by making everyone else look bad so you are the least bad. You can win that way but the first technique is better I think.

jj111
08-14-2007, 12:35 PM
Oops how do I delete this post?

ARealConservative
08-14-2007, 12:36 PM
Just hope we didn't chase them off in Iowa with the "I Smoke Pot and I Vote" signs, and by yelling at the bus riders about war.

That was just one guy and he is the Iowa Director of NORML.

He was also a meetup group member until he pulled that stunt.

MsDoodahs
08-14-2007, 12:36 PM
If I had millions dont u think is run my own attack ads?

You don't have the money to run them yourself but you want to tell others (the campaign HQ) what they should do with their money?

Sheesh, control freaks bother me.



Only HQ can do this but they havent got the balls.

I am sorely tempted to ... nevermind.


Look, RP may be infallible when it comes to economics and the constitution....but this is about PR (something I happen to do for a living)

EMOTION IS WHAT SELLS....

:rolleyes:

Dominic
08-14-2007, 12:36 PM
Pat Buchanan actually beat Bob Dole in NH because of his hard hitting attack ads.
Perhaps it had short term benefits, but in living by the sword he died by it. It was not merely financial shortcomings that got him, it was the anti-semitic attacks and so forth that the other side was hitting him with..

DjLoTi
08-14-2007, 12:38 PM
I think this thread topic is insulting and counter-productive. Since it's an opinion, and going off topic at that, I think it should be moved to another board. It's really annoying to see this at the top all the time in bold letters.

Then again, I'm a stickler for aesthetics.

Sematary
08-14-2007, 12:39 PM
pyra..

Meetup groups are a great supplement to the campaign...but do u seriously believe we can make up for RP's unwillingness to attacK?

"nanny state"....what a preposterous statement. I dont have the money to run a good TV attack ad...do you?

That's HQ's responsibility

It is not necessary to "attack" in the sense that I think you are talking about but he could certainly hit on hot button issues with conservative voters as far as Guiliani and Romney are concerned because their backgrounds are northeast liberal.

LibertyEagle
08-14-2007, 12:40 PM
Part of their point is that the ads should not have been last minute. I was disappointed with the feet-dragging over Iowa, but also wonder if it would have done any good to have dumped a couple million into it. Maybe it would have put us in fourth place, but unless you hit second, the press doesn't care.

We've seen some mistakes such as the snafu with Operation Spooner, but that kind of thing can happen on any campaign.

I'd say, let's not worry about HQ. 1) Ron Paul is not going to dump his loyal staff for a slicker team, so we'd waste our time belly-aching over it, and 2) we ARE the shadow campaign. Anything we see them not doing, we can do, with limited exceptions. So we get snubbed by staffers at events because we're not paid members of their clique. WE know who does the real work around here, and WE know who is paying their salary.

Oh, I agree with you Scribbler. My only reason for mentioning the last minute nature of things, is that I am hoping we at the grassroots level start creating some strategy for ourselves, so that we ourselves don't leave things up to the last minute, unless they absolutely have to be that way.

MsDoodahs
08-14-2007, 12:40 PM
I think this thread topic is insulting and counter-productive. Since it's an opinion, and going off topic at that, I think it should be moved to another board. It's really annoying to see this at the top all the time in bold letters.

Then again, I'm a stickler for aesthetics.

What Dj said.:D

Nefertiti
08-14-2007, 12:41 PM
Dr. Paul has a lot of conviction that his way is right and he doesn't need to attack others. Others have to engage in attacks in order to make their own positions look more correct than they are.

I think we are in a good position now. I've seen A LOT of negative spin on Romney from the media in the last few days, including his performance at the straw poll because he spent so much money. And Hillary and Barack are getting pounded too by the media. The media is doing a good job at the dirty work lately so we can focus our efforts elsewhere.

MsDoodahs
08-14-2007, 12:42 PM
Oh, I agree with you Scribbler. My only reason for mentioning the last minute nature of things, is that I am hoping we at the grassroots level start creating some strategy for ourselves, so that we ourselves don't leave things up to the last minute, unless they absolutely have to be that way.

That is how I think we fell down on the job.

We need to get moving earlier in other contests because we're little and need more time to get rolling...

disinter
08-14-2007, 12:46 PM
Whoever advised him to take that angry tone in the Iowa speech should be fired. It made him look like just another neo-con nutjob.

LibertyEagle
08-14-2007, 12:46 PM
We do not need, or want, attack ads, IMO. I can't remember now who it was, but just in the last couple of days, someone suggested a wonderful series of soundbytes that would enable both us and Dr. Paul to totally turn the whole Iraq war issue back on the others. In other words, reframing things so WE are the only ones who are really serious about combatting terrorism. I thought his ideas were extremely good and it did not alter one single stance of Ron Paul's. It just showed things for what they are. You know, by letting our country be in such debt to China, was not conducive to national security. We needed to go after the one who really attacked us, bin Laden, and he wasn't IN Iraq. We needed to get out of debt, defend our own borders, etc. He said it MUCH better than I am here.

There is a way to turn this whole thing back on the others. We have the truth on our side. Up to now, we've been playing defense, instead of OFFENSE. I think it's time for the OFFENSE to step forward. I think the others will crumble. Yup, that's what I think. :)

aravoth
08-14-2007, 12:48 PM
Appealing to emotions is ok, showing our fallen is not. I don't care if you're after shock value, I don't care if you think we need to be bigger assholes than all the chickenhawks running for office. People that try to promote Ron Paul's idea of freedom while tossing the "I told you so" mantra in with a few photos of dead Iragi's and dead Americans piss me off to a level you can't even fathom. I know people in those coffins, I served with many of the people there now.

I understand what they are trying to illustrate, but you don't need to do that shit. You really think that the older generation will actually sit through that?

The shitty video's I made have none of this unessacy shock value shit, and they all get a shitload of views. I've been told stories about how people have been able to convert the undecided or even the decided over to us just by showing them. And do you know why? It's not because they are edited well, it's not becuase they are "top production value". It's becuase it's just Dr. Paul, his message, and his words. Thats all.

HQ will do what is right, this isn't exactly the march of dimes. The money must be spent carefully. Don't forget though that we are a part of this campaign as well. That doesn't give any single one of us the right to micromanage the campaign. But it doesn't stop you from taking ten minutes out of your busy schedule to put signs up, engage people in conversation, call the papers, the news, and people in New Hampshire. This revolution may have been ingnited my Dr. Paul, but this is our country, and we are the ones resposible for what happens to it. Not his campaign staff.

LibertyEagle
08-14-2007, 12:50 PM
Whoever advised him to take that angry tone in the Iowa speech should be fired. It made him look like just another neo-con nutjob.

I liked his tone, myself. In a perfect world, I would have liked for him to have explained himself better on the 2nd amendment and 9-11, etc., but all-in-all, he did very well. He's getting better each and every time.

What I liked the most about this speech, is that he got more away from teaching and more to ..... what is the word I'm looking for here? I can't think of it now. Anyway, I liked it. :)

isufferfromronpaulfever
08-14-2007, 12:57 PM
I don't know why people are so quick to flame on the original poster for expressing his opinion on the matter. I for one don't agree with him 100% however I can side with him on some of his reasonings.

If you think we've gotten to where we are because of the campaign, you're kidding yourself.

The campaign needs to stir the pot a bit more..

The dice need to be rolled eventually.

Hook
08-14-2007, 01:00 PM
If all the attack ads come completely from outsiders, Paul can keep his distance and not be held liable.

PaleoConservative
08-14-2007, 01:14 PM
Pat Buchanan didn't beat Bob Dole because of the mysterious third place showing in Arizona. Bob Dole would have dropped out of the race with a bad showing there. Once Pat came in third there, the money started drying up and after second place showing in South Carolina it was all over.

No, Buchanan didn't lose because of his attacks and he certainly isn't anti-semite as his Jewish friends will tell you.

I was part of the Internet Brigade in 96 and he used the internet very well back in the day. Of course, it is nothing compared to Ron Paul's internet support. Which is good for Dr. Paul, he needs a much stronger internet base. Dr. Paul is no Buchanan when it comes to speaking and getting press time. Buchanan was a master at getting media attention in 96 and 92.

I also hope we can get Tancredo out of the race. He reminds me of an Alan Keyes type candidate. Like he drained votes from Pat, so tom takes from from Dr. Paul. The quicker he gets out the better.

I've been frustraited with the HQ staff as well. How many presidential campaigns have these guys run before? However, they were very under staffed and those problems have been taken care of now. I'm sure we'll see a more active effort after the holiday.

PaleoConservative
08-14-2007, 01:16 PM
One valid compalint,

I am the only one worried about all the 911 truthers that post on his myspace page? Who is in change of accepting those posts? Mine never make it on, but 911 guys get it on there with regularity?


Who do we need to contact to get those posts off and keep them off?

constituent
08-14-2007, 01:18 PM
i think that we (the grassroots campaign) need to do everything in our power to set the real campaign up all cush everywhere they go. use our influence in our communities to do all of the normal work well in advance; have the campaign show up and start trying to do their job only to find that the job is taken care of already.

let them take care of their thing... send them positive words of encouragement or leave them alone... we'll do ours.

IMO.

LibertyEagle
08-14-2007, 01:18 PM
One valid compalint,

I am the only one worried about all the 911 truthers that post on his myspace page? Who is in change of accepting those posts? Mine never make it on, but 911 guys get it on there with regularity?


Who do we need to contact to get those posts off and keep them off?

If you want to pursue this, I would imagine Justine Lam at HQ would have the answer to your question.

R_Harris
08-14-2007, 01:21 PM
I worked on a volunteer basis on Ron's campaign when he ran for US Senate in 1984 against Phil Gramm. I actually escorted him to several events and even sat next to him during the talks given at the Republican State Committee meeting. (He gave a very good speech, got a standing ovation, but Phil Gramm was still the Chosen One of the Party Machine.)

Max makes some very good points, and some of the issues he talks about I saw during the 1984 campaign.

As I am sure all of you are aware of, Ron Paul is not your typical politician. He is an intellectual, which immediately causes 95% of the American populace to go into a blank stare - which I saw in the reactions of people in the stands while watching his speech in Iowa on Saturday (Federal Reserve not in the Constitution? What is this weirdo talking about?)

Frankly, I AM bothered by the fact that he is only registering 2% in the national polls. Campaign experience will tell you that in a national election, you must spend $500,000 for every percentage upward move in the polls if you do not have positive name ID.

It is now August 14, and he basically has 4 1/2 months to move to 25% and become a serious contender. Obviously, given what I said above, there is a lot of organizational, operational, and fundraising work to be done if he is truly going to have a fighting chance by the end of December.

Time IS running out. 4 1/2 months is nothing in a STATEWIDE campaign, let alone a NATIONAL campaign. TV and radio airwaves need to be HAMMERED with ads beginning after Labor Day. He needs to be in IA, NH, SC, and FL almost every minute he can spare starting after Labor Day.

Folks, speaking as a volunteer from a past campaign, I can appreciate the almost superhuman efforts people have put in to this point. But unfortunately, there is only so far that your efforts can reach. It is up to HQ to get solid, HARD HITTING ads out there that point to him and make people who are committed to other candidiates think twice about why they are supporting them. Simple, non-slanderous ads which simply point out that all these guys are of the current status quo system and that nothing materially will change with them HAS to be effectively done in numerous ways. Otherwise, they have no motivation to change.

I will obviously be interested in what happens. But I honestly cannot say that HQ has done an outstanding job to this point - a VERY GOOD job, but unfortunately nothing less than outstanding or superior will propel Ron to victory at this stage. Time is short, and lots of huge obstacles are still out there to overcome.

ronpaulhawaii
08-14-2007, 01:26 PM
what concerns me more than the non-effort in iowa is the weakness of the ads.

REPEAT: If RP does not laaunch blistering attack ads, he will have no chance.

thats the truth. Deal with it.

That is truly your opinion. Not mine. Both are "truth"

In Hawaii we have a very effective way of dealing with people,

"Kill em with Kindness"

My ma just, successfully, used this strategy to deal with a priest who had been a pain for months.

for RP to ATTACK!!!! seems against his nature and just because The Machine uses it, does not mean it is effective or smart. The machine also uses the tactic of "telling lies often enough..."

Nothing wrong with you creating attack ads, and from the success of this forums "We The People" ad, if you do a good job, people will donate.

So what do you think we should do?

Gee
08-14-2007, 01:55 PM
The ads they ran in Iowa SUCKED!
They really, really did. They sucked bad.

I really wonder what his campaign is doing, when they spend far less than the other candidates but have far more in the bank. I mean, its not like the field in Iowa was populated by a bunch of well-funded candidates. Except for Romney, RP had 4 times as much cash as anyone else at the end of Q2! Maybe they are gearing up for a big push before the primaries? I don't know. I just hope the adds are of a higher quality than the ones run in Iowa.

jpa
08-14-2007, 02:24 PM
[QUOTE=MsDoodahs;124648]Nothing stopping you, Max, from launching your own "blistering attack ads."


If I had millions dont u think is run my own attack ads? Only HQ can do this but they havent got the balls.

Look, RP may be infallible when it comes to economics and the constitution....but this is about PR (something I happen to do for a living)

EMOTION IS WHAT SELLS....

Where are your ads that you want produced / run? (scripts / storyboards / etc)
Who/what do you do PR for?

SWATH
08-14-2007, 02:25 PM
Attack ads just give more attention to the person being attacked. There were a lot of attack ads aimed at Bush. Did that make him lose?

Ron Paul doesn't have enough name recognition yet, so any ads should focus on that.

I just had an idea. What if Ron Paul launched smear ads against...Ron Paul, but overly sarcastic. Like "Ron Paul does not want to take care of you, he has consistently fought against a womans right to kill her unborn child, he has voted against expensive government hand outs aimed at giving you a free ride, and has never voted to raise taxes and increase the size and scope of government to keep a close eye on you for your own good....I'm Ron Paul and I approved this message"

I would like to think it wouldn't just go over everyones head and leave them thinking it's an actual smear.

Johnnybags
08-14-2007, 02:28 PM
The lemmings watching them would not see the sarcasm, the fact that Fox News still has any viewers shows there are too many being spoonfed garbage and they believe it. No sarcasm, please, half the US is on some sort of drug and would think you were serious.

max
08-14-2007, 02:38 PM
i want to see an anti-war ad with flag draped coffins, weeping widows, and bush in the background joking about how he cant find wmd's (an actual event caught on film)

DeadheadForPaul
08-14-2007, 02:40 PM
I think the campaign has done some good and some bad

I thought the Iowa ads were fit for Iowa in the 1950's. People have short attention spans nowadays. It sucks but is true

We'll see where the campaign goes

How about we support them and give them constructive criticism/volunteer efforts rather than just typing some negative attacks

Nefertiti
08-14-2007, 02:42 PM
I thought the tv ads for Iowa were subpar myself. I didn't like the fact that they had someone singing about Ron Paul in the background, a voice over plus captions on the screen. Too busy and I couldn't follow any one of the 3 because of interference from the others.

constituent
08-14-2007, 02:46 PM
deadhead-

"constructive criticism/volunteer efforts"

abso f*n lutely!

Original_Intent
08-14-2007, 02:48 PM
i want to see an anti-war ad with flag draped coffins, weeping widows, and bush in the background joking about how he cant find wmd's (an actual event caught on film)

This has already been done there is an incredible youtube on this. I will see if I can find it.

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYI7JXGqd0o

jeremycobert
08-14-2007, 02:48 PM
i live in Iowa (cedar rapids) and i didn't like the TV ads either.
i felt the ads should focus more on information about Dr Paul, if you've seen the campaign slim jims, they have a lot of information about him that would appeal to Iowans. information like him never accepting political junkets, never voting to raise taxes etc,etc.

let us get to know him with the first few ads, then lets hear about what he will do.

jeremycobert
08-14-2007, 02:52 PM
i want to see an anti-war ad with flag draped coffins, weeping widows, and bush in the background joking about how he cant find wmd's (an actual event caught on film)

that is exactly what you dont want to do, especially here in iowa. we are for the most part pretty middle of the road, that type of ad would not work here.

he is not running against Bush! he needs to get the nomination and bring along the republicans not alienate them. exploiting dead soldiers will not work in any way shape of form.

MsDoodahs
08-14-2007, 03:46 PM
I
I thought the Iowa ads were fit for Iowa in the 1950's.

Just want to point out .... everyone who went to Iowa has commented on Romeny bussing in .... WHO?

WHO?

The people born in the 30s, 40s, and 50s. ('old old old people' is I believe how one of them described it.)

If Ron ran ads that would work in the 1950s, then he was targeting exactly the voter that Mitt was hauling to the event.

So you see, there may have been a sneaky slick method behind what you young whipper snappers;) see as ... madness.

rodent
08-14-2007, 03:53 PM
Part of their point is that the ads should not have been last minute. I was disappointed with the feet-dragging over Iowa, but also wonder if it would have done any good to have dumped a couple million into it. Maybe it would have put us in fourth place, but unless you hit second, the press doesn't care.

We've seen some mistakes such as the snafu with Operation Spooner, but that kind of thing can happen on any campaign.

I'd say, let's not worry about HQ. 1) Ron Paul is not going to dump his loyal staff for a slicker team, so we'd waste our time belly-aching over it, and 2) we ARE the shadow campaign. Anything we see them not doing, we can do, with limited exceptions. So we get snubbed by staffers at events because we're not paid members of their clique. WE know who does the real work around here, and WE know who is paying their salary.

IMO, we should learn from the Iowa mistakes and take it all out in New Hampshire. New Hampshire is a far greater, more important battleground than Iowa.

If we lose in a state that has the best license plate in the union, the campaign is dead.

Richandler
08-14-2007, 04:09 PM
Well right now, Ron Paul is in a stall. He did ok in Iowa. He didn't turn any heads outside of the loyal following. That needs to change. We need more money simply put. The only reason Giuliani, McCain and Romney are heavily in the media is because they have the money to throw around. If I'm not mistaken Ron Paul's campaign has about 2.3 million. Not sure what the strategy is, but if the main campaign doesn't spend that resource for a win somewhere the campaign will never succeed. The grassroots does not have enough financial aid or man power.

I think attack adds do make some sense. Maybe not now but down the line. It's constantly preached that we won't go that low. But enough with the PC of the campaign. Every single other candidate is doing it. 7 Republicans are ahead of Paul in National support. 4-5 Democrats have bigger followings. This battle for the nomination needs to enter a new offensive. We need more planning, and more strategy. Mainly we need to realize we live in a sound bite and 15 sec. of fame society. The message of freedom will remain in our minds for a while. But to the average person they will thing about it for a day or two and then they will go on with their lives. These elections are popularity contests. They have been for a while.

quickmike
08-14-2007, 04:23 PM
I pretty much disagree with most of this. Maybe the ads they ran, yeah I'll agree with you there for sure. Ron is in this for the long haul. Hes not going to waste a million bucks in any one state just so he can show a 2nd place position. What good would that do if he did that and had to wait months for donations to come in so he could campaign again? I think hes doing it the right way.

Medium paced growth with plenty of time. Thats how I see what hes doing. I agree with one of the earlier posts that people like Tancredo and
Brownback will be gone while Ron is still fighting for the cause because he didnt just put it all on one state. Remember, Bill Clinton only got 2% in Iowa and went on to be president. The more people get into politics closer to fall, the more people will see the Ron Paul name. The debates will give him much more time to speak once all the pests are gone. More people will also be watching the debates as well.

I tihnk the campaign is playing it smart at this point. Saving the money for when people are actually paying attention to politics. Summertime is not a good time to throw lots of money into ad campaigns. Why do you think the networks just play reruns of sitcoms during the summer? Its because most people arent spending their time at home, so why waste the money creating new shows that only a small percentage of america will see?

This is a chess game, not a game of tic tac toe.

MsDoodahs
08-14-2007, 04:35 PM
Yeah, I see this as a long slow climb upward while others burn out and crash and fall. :)

I don't quite understand why some people are here saying "oh, if he doesn't win NH, the campaign is over." That's silly.

It feels to me as though these people are Romney folks - or Julie Annie - or FT people...hoping to upset the RP supporters and create this idea that the campaign hinges solely on NH...which is simply not true.

quickmike
08-14-2007, 04:45 PM
Yeah, I see this as a long slow climb upward while others burn out and crash and fall. :)

I don't quite understand why some people are here saying "oh, if he doesn't win NH, the campaign is over." That's silly.

It feels to me as though these people are Romney folks - or Julie Annie - or FT people...hoping to upset the RP supporters and create this idea that the campaign hinges solely on NH...which is simply not true.

I was actually just thinking the same thing.:cool:

Bradley in DC
08-14-2007, 04:52 PM
what concerns me more than the non-effort in iowa is the weakness of the ads.

REPEAT: If RP does not laaunch blistering attack ads, he will have no chance.

thats the truth. Deal with it.

Dr. Paul will never "launch blistering attack ads." Deal with it.

MsDoodahs
08-14-2007, 05:02 PM
Dr. Paul will never "launch blistering attack ads." Deal with it.

:D

slantedview
08-14-2007, 05:05 PM
I agree with those who are saying that being conservative with the cash in Iowa was a good strategy. Look what Romney got for the win? A mild amount of news coverage, nothing special. If Paul blew most of his money in Iowa, it could have been the last big mistake he made.

He did good. Things are good. I agree that the ads could be better, but even there, is more $.

Kuldebar
08-14-2007, 05:07 PM
People need to stop trying to make remake Paul in the same image of all the other liars and cheats running for office.

Paul doesn't want to "trick" people into voting for him, he wants to persuade people via intellectual discourse.

If the voter base is truly as "stupid" and ignorant as many of you claim it is, then we will have at least done our last honest effort to turn things around.

Ron Paul speaks plainly and is easy to understand, he also, actually answers questions without him-hawing or tap dancing around.

If Americans can't hear and understand what this man is saying, we are indeed in big trouble.

Spirit of '76
08-14-2007, 05:07 PM
Dr. Paul will never "launch blistering attack ads."

Good.

angelatc
08-14-2007, 05:16 PM
Just hope we didn't chase them off in Iowa with the "I Smoke Pot and I Vote" signs, and by yelling at the bus riders about war.

Did you yell it in Spanish?

angelatc
08-14-2007, 05:18 PM
Dr. Paul will never "launch blistering attack ads." Deal with it.

That's what I was thinking. He would't be Ron Paul if he did something like that.

I have to admit that I wonder what a Clinton vs Paul election ad campaign would look like.

jmunjr
08-14-2007, 05:25 PM
I mentioned Ron Paul to my cousin (who liked Tancredo) and he grimaced saying Paul was pro-abortion. Of course I enlightened him and he agreed to read and listen to Paul in the future.

If Paul is to have a chance he needs money. The passion for Paul by his current supporters is great, but it won't make a huge difference until there are a whole lot more of us. The best thing the Paul campaign could use right now is more money. I have not donated yet, but I plan to give the maximum soon. My stocks have taken a beating the past 4 weeks so that has delayed it a bit.

There are just way too many people that will never hear about Paul except through the mainstream media or outlets that require some cash - e.g. advertising. I do think the big showing of out of state supporters at the straw poll helped though. People are either thinking everyone was a little wacky or they thought there must be something to this Paul guy to get so much support and hence look at him more.

Regardless there will be a lot of people turned off by Paul's stance on many issues, but mostly because they are ignorant about why he stands for them(and I say that politely).

Scribbler de Stebbing
08-14-2007, 05:29 PM
Dr. Paul will never "launch blistering attack ads." Deal with it.

Although a PAC could certainly do such a thing. :cool:

Bradley in DC
08-14-2007, 05:31 PM
I have to admit that I wonder what a Clinton vs Paul election ad campaign would look like.

I can't wait!:D

quickmike
08-14-2007, 05:32 PM
People need to stop trying to make remake Paul in the same image of all the other liars and cheats running for office.

Paul doesn't want to "trick" people into voting for him, he wants to persuade people via intellectual discourse.

If the voter base is truly as "stupid" and ignorant as many of you claim it is, then we will have at least done our last honest effort to turn things around.

Ron Paul speaks plainly and is easy to understand, he also, actually answers questions without him-hawing or tap dancing around.

If Americans can't hear and understand what this man is saying, we are indeed in big trouble.

I agree. If people are too stupid to see something this good right in front of them, then they deserve whatever crooked politician they end up voting for.

we always get what we deserve dont we?

Scribbler de Stebbing
08-14-2007, 05:36 PM
I agree with those who are saying that being conservative with the cash in Iowa was a good strategy. Look what Romney got for the win? A mild amount of news coverage, nothing special. If Paul blew most of his money in Iowa, it could have been the last big mistake he made.

Although I wouldn't say RP should have spent a LOT more money in Iowa, I think you are underestimating the effects of the straw poll. The media will take him even less seriously than they have, if that's possible. And you're not going to see big names jumping on board; nor will you see Big Money.

That said, Ron Paul can counter those effects, which amount to perception, with only one thing: filing a whopper of a contribution report this quarter ending September 30. Make that two things: the aforementioned report and a decent showing in "scientific" polls.

Kuldebar
08-14-2007, 05:40 PM
Paul support will remain stable and mostly likely grow, his opponents will have a tug of war over what voters they have, and their voters may have some change of heart about things.

All's Paul need to do is keep growing the Campaign by attracting intellectually engaged supporters. These supporters will stand firm while the other campaigns picnic off each other.

angelatc
08-14-2007, 05:44 PM
I agree. If people are too stupid to see something this good right in front of them, then they deserve whatever crooked politician they end up voting for.

we always get what we deserve dont we?

The problem is that *we* are getting what *they* deserve though. ANd I'm just about sick of it.

But where's a pilgrim to go? We came here but the left seems to have followed us.

quickmike
08-14-2007, 05:46 PM
Although I wouldn't say RP should have spent a LOT more money in Iowa, I think you are underestimating the effects of the straw poll. The media will take him even less seriously than they have, if that's possible. And you're not going to see big names jumping on board; nor will you see Big Money.

That said, Ron Paul can counter those effects, which amount to perception, with only one thing: filing a whopper of a contribution report this quarter ending September 30. Make that two things: the aforementioned report and a decent showing in "scientific" polls.

Think about this though. If Ron would have spent a million, or even half a million campaigning in Iowa and bought votes and steak dinners, golf carting peoples big lazy asses to the tent(that one still makes me chuckle a little) and somehow ended up in second place, the MSM would have just spun it as "Obviously the only way a candidate like Ron Paul got 2nd place was that he outspent everyone else." That would partialy be true too. I think he should have spent much more time there though going to different counties and explaining himself. He could have done that pretty cheaply too.

you cant buy a message. All you can do is speak it and hope you get the support needed. If people dont like the message, maybe they deserve another Bush or Clinton in the white house. Then they can say 3 yrs down the road "what happened? I thought Mitt was the answer to our problems?" Silly human race:D We never learn do we?

More speeches and travel, but do it cheap. Thats what I say.

Kuldebar
08-14-2007, 05:50 PM
The problem is that *we* are getting what *they* deserve though. ANd I'm just about sick of it.

But where's a pilgrim to go? We came here but the left seems to have followed us.


And, we will continue to get the same via mob rule.

When we had our proper government, it wouldn't matter who is president as long as the role of government was kept with in the constitutional limits.

Perhaps, we will find out that John Adams was correct:


...a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty once lost is lost forever. When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it.

Or, as Claire Wolfe put it:


"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

LibertyEagle
08-14-2007, 05:53 PM
The problem is that *we* are getting what *they* deserve though. ANd I'm just about sick of it.



:D How very true.

Kuldebar
08-14-2007, 05:57 PM
We simply have to persevere and continue gathering the remnant that's out there. People like many of us who'd become resigned to the idea of living in a gray world devoid of sparks until they saw a crowd of people like themselves rallying around an honest man.


You do not know and will never know who the Remnant are, or where they are, or how many of them there are, or what they are doing or will do. Two things you know, and no more: first, that they exist; second, that they will find you.
-Albert Jay Nock

quickmike
08-14-2007, 05:58 PM
The way I see it, If Ron Paul doesnt win, im hoping for everything to go to shit in the economy and the war and terrorism. That way the sleeping masses will wake up. Im starting to think that is what it will take to wake them up if he by chance doesnt win. Falling into a complete facist state 10 times worse than what we have right now might just be what the country needs to say "WTF????"

I hope Ron wins instead............. it will be much easier that way;)

LibertyEagle
08-14-2007, 06:03 PM
I went to mail a couple of things today, one to the dear 'ol IRS. I made the comment that it seemed wrong that I had to PAY to send something to them. The clerk agreed. I said that was why I was going to vote for Ron Paul. Much to my surprise, she turned to me, smiled and said me too.

Buzz
08-14-2007, 06:10 PM
Just imagine if we still managed a 5th place finish even while skipping the event. I think that would of been a bigger story then showing up and finishing 5th.

We wouldn't have gotten 5th place if we skipped it, but imagine if Paul still had ended up beating the "front runners!" That would have been interesting.

PHenry
08-14-2007, 06:13 PM
what concerns me more than the non-effort in iowa is the weakness of the ads.

REPEAT: If RP does not laaunch blistering attack ads, he will have no chance.

thats the truth. Deal with it.

I don't want the campaign to go negative and I don't think the good doctor will allow that anyway. Suggestions have been floated about forming a PAC. I would not mind in the least attacking the warmongers opposing RP, couldn't that be handled by the PAC? Let RP stay positive and turn the PAC dogs loose on the neocon weasels.

Jennifer Reynolds
08-14-2007, 06:17 PM
///

Jennifer Reynolds
08-14-2007, 06:19 PM
///

paulitics
08-14-2007, 06:20 PM
I don't think it is a good idea for Paul to attack the frontrunners. Case in point: Howard Dean. He had it in the bag, but debased himself. I also think that we have come a long way and have exceeded expectations in Iowa. I like that we did so well, with the least effort.

I also think WE need to become our own campaign headquarters. The grassroots with organization can and should be more powerful than what the campaign headquarters can achieve. The problem is we are not organized and moving in a thousand different directions. THis needs to change ASAP. I hope some of us can come up with practical solutions to this.


And finally, those of us with talent and experience, like LadyJade, should seek employment over there. They need to hire more people. They are understaffed and can't handle the growth.

By the way, I kind of like the sneak attack approach. With a firm grassroots strategy we can surprise them all before a DEAN MOMENT. We need to outfox the enemy. Remember, we are on the upswing while the others have peaked.

DjLoTi
08-14-2007, 06:20 PM
I am sick of hearing crap from HQ about how we do things when they refuse to tell us themselves and their campaign is being run by a bunch of idiots.

I told a guy today that I was working 90 hours per week on this campaign and wanted to ask a question. We got into a debate about abortion and then he told me that a pro-choice person has no business being a part of this campaign and I should go support Hillary Clinton.

So, now, defend that!

As far as Iowa goes it was a fiasco. I made over 1000 calls before they bothered to put up his schedule for appearances. Hence, I told all callers that he was not going to be in Iowa at all. That turned a lot of people off.

Plus, it would have been a little easier to sell a name they had at least heard of... waiting until 3 days before the election to put up an ad?

Plus, I had several people with tons of money ask me how they could contribute to the campaign and the campaign people had not gotten back to them. Brilliant. Just great.

I send out message after message and they are all ignored. That is very polite. Don't tell me about busy. I don't stop working night or day for the man. The least you can do is ANSWER A FREAKIN EMAIL!

I am tired of it all. I work my fingers to the bone and am yelled at, hung up on, told invalid information about voting registration in my state, and ignored.

What do you think you are going to do about NH? What can you do? Have they given out any numbers yet? They have them all. Have they set up any ads there yet? No. Why should we learn from Iowa when it went so well. No reason we should have beaten an insane monster like Tancredo.

Ouch.... That, was, a legitimate burn.

ghemminger
08-14-2007, 06:22 PM
Ouch.... That, was, a legitimate burn.

Double Ouch...

Man from La Mancha
08-14-2007, 06:23 PM
I worked on a volunteer basis on Ron's campaign when he ran for US Senate in 1984 against Phil Gramm. I actually escorted him to several events and even sat next to him during the talks given at the Republican State Committee meeting. (He gave a very good speech, got a standing ovation, but Phil Gramm was still the Chosen One of the Party Machine.)

Max makes some very good points, and some of the issues he talks about I saw during the 1984 campaign.

As I am sure all of you are aware of, Ron Paul is not your typical politician. He is an intellectual, which immediately causes 95% of the American populace to go into a blank stare - which I saw in the reactions of people in the stands while watching his speech in Iowa on Saturday (Federal Reserve not in the Constitution? What is this weirdo talking about?)

Frankly, I AM bothered by the fact that he is only registering 2% in the national polls. Campaign experience will tell you that in a national election, you must spend $500,000 for every percentage upward move in the polls if you do not have positive name ID.

It is now August 14, and he basically has 4 1/2 months to move to 25% and become a serious contender. Obviously, given what I said above, there is a lot of organizational, operational, and fundraising work to be done if he is truly going to have a fighting chance by the end of December.

Time IS running out. 4 1/2 months is nothing in a STATEWIDE campaign, let alone a NATIONAL campaign. TV and radio airwaves need to be HAMMERED with ads beginning after Labor Day. He needs to be in IA, NH, SC, and FL almost every minute he can spare starting after Labor Day.

Folks, speaking as a volunteer from a past campaign, I can appreciate the almost superhuman efforts people have put in to this point. But unfortunately, there is only so far that your efforts can reach. It is up to HQ to get solid, HARD HITTING ads out there that point to him and make people who are committed to other candidiates think twice about why they are supporting them. Simple, non-slanderous ads which simply point out that all these guys are of the current status quo system and that nothing materially will change with them HAS to be effectively done in numerous ways. Otherwise, they have no motivation to change.

I will obviously be interested in what happens. But I honestly cannot say that HQ has done an outstanding job to this point - a VERY GOOD job, but unfortunately nothing less than outstanding or superior will propel Ron to victory at this stage. Time is short, and lots of huge obstacles are still out there to overcome.


After just reading all 11 pages of this thread I think this post had the most to offer. We need money for much better ads, if the campaign would post donations daily more money will come. I too thought the radio and TV ads weren't very good. Maybe aravoth can come up with some 30 second or 1 min comercials, his videos do well. At the local level though is where a lot can be done. As the Aims ad proves a lot of talent outside of HQ. IMO

fj45lvr
08-14-2007, 06:23 PM
there's nothing at all wrong about "negative"....I would just like to think that it is possible to actually "expose" these other guys for what they are as more of the same (radicals against liberty and the constitution)...on the other hand we are the non-radicals (but somehow over the years the wool has been pulled over the eyes and the sheeple have grown accustomed to the "chains" that rest lightly on them. In order to point this out the "truth" may be most definetly percieved as "negative"....concerning the fiat currency, economic crisis, unsound defense of the world (while no defense of our border or sovereignty)....

more troubling is the fact that these other candidates could concievably give "lip service" to speak the "talk" but will NEVER "walk the talk" like Paul has for 10 terms. There is the HUGE difference right there. anyone can say things.

Spirit of '76
08-14-2007, 06:25 PM
I told a guy today that I was working 90 hours per week on this campaign and wanted to ask a question. We got into a debate about abortion and then he told me that a pro-choice person has no business being a part of this campaign and I should go support Hillary Clinton.


Did you get the name of the individual who treated you this way?


Plus, I had several people with tons of money ask me how they could contribute to the campaign and the campaign people had not gotten back to them. Brilliant. Just great.

The next time someone with tons of money asks you how they can donate, tell them to go here:
https://www.ronpaul2008.com/donate/

ghemminger
08-14-2007, 06:27 PM
After just reading all 11 pages of this thread I think this post had the most to offer. We need money for much better ads, if the campaign would post donations daily more money will come. I too thought the radio and TV ads weren't very good. Maybe aravoth can come up with some 30 second or 1 min comercials, his videos do well. At the local level though is where a lot can be done. As the Aims ad proves a lot of talent outside of HQ. IMO

Nice Qoute La Mancha

PHenry
08-14-2007, 06:29 PM
One of the primary things that makes me like Ron Paul so much is his integrity. I'd think much less of him if he got involved too heavily in the mud-slinging.

I may be an extreme minority on that, but just about all the RP supporters I know personally feel the same way.

Couldn't agree more! RP is a different kind of candidate and will mount a different, positive kind of campaign.

bygone
08-14-2007, 06:53 PM
RP's people have only managed a small congressional race.

True? I guess it is. So what?

This is a different animal and there performance to date has been awful.

I'm guessing you're about to prove that point...

Iowa was an opportunity for a breakout that will now be delayed.

I disagree with this. RP wasn't going to do better than he did in Iowa. The reason for that doesn't have a lot to do with his supporters or his "people". He wasn't "in it to win it", or even "in it to come in second."

It's almost September and we're still playing the "Who is Ron Paul" game. A Iowa victory or a 2nd place would have gotten us past this "Who is" stage. Thats why Iowa was important.

An Iowa victory wasn't possible, see above. Iowa is not seen as important as it has been in the previous years, either. I'm not sure 2nd place would have gotten past the name recognition problem, but it would have helped.

They totally blew it by not fighting and barely spending anytime in Iowa. . Iowa was not a setback, but nor was it the boost we could have easily had had if they spent some time and money there.

They were not trying to win Iowa, they were trying to exceed expectations, and they did that. Their motto so far has been "slow an steady wins the race" and so far, so good.

The ads they ran in Iowa SUCKED!

Yes, they did, but not because they didn't attack front runners. You don't have to run ads to attack them, you can just say something controversial to the right people and it makes news that does the job more effectively for free. Like you could say "I can't believe Republicans would nominate a cross dresser, or that America would elect one as President." They sucked because they did not say what they should have said. I could care less about your letters of marque and reprisal. What I care about is that you are the candidate that will bring the troops home. The message isn't strong enough and is expressed in weak directions.

They need to directly ATTACK the front runners. Brownback did well because he boldly attacked Romney while RP's people were running TV ads about "Letters of Mark and Reprisal?"....are you fucking kidding me?

No, they aren't kidding you. RP does not engage in the personal attack game. Even if he did, he wouldn't have to spend a lot of money doing it. He could take any of the numerous opportunities to speak and say something very nasty but true about someone and it will get attention. This doesn't have much to do with his "people" (oh, look honey you started a cult!) but more to do with RP.

Huckabeee did well because of his pro-life message because Iowans WERE NOT EVEN AWARE that RP was a baby doctor with impeccible pro-life credentials.

If I were running things I'd have stressed two things above all else: Just Come Home and Pro-Life. Huckabee apparantly did well without the personal attack game, even if you suggested that he must engage in this to do well.

Tancredo did well because he stressed the immigration issue while Iowans weren't aware that RP is just as solid as Tancredo on immigration.

Talking point #3 for RP. Also not well stressed, I'm agreeing with you that the ads could have been better and his message can be stronger and more relevant.

RP should be ATTACKING the vulnerable frontrunners relentlessly while making his name synonymous with abolition of the IRS and the folly of this war. How about some TV ads with coffins of dead and maimed US troops? How about an ad showing what RP said during the first debate when he was asked about shutting down the IRS and replied "immediately".

RP doesn't play the personal attack game and probably has made this clear to his "people". With that option out, I don't think RP is going to approve running negative ads with coffins and so forth trying to convince people that the war is bad, and he shouldn't. He should be getting the message the HE is against the war and would bring the troops home, which is different than trying to influence what people think about the war. 70% of Americans already don't like it. The war, healthcare, and immigration probably come before getting rid of the IRS, welfare, and other things with most people. A lot of low income families LIKE the IRS - they get child credits to the tune of thosands of dollars a year on tax returns that make a big difference in being able to simply live. Be careful how important you think that part of the message really is to the general public, even if its a core issue among people who already support RP.

Emotional hot buttons and images are what triggers publicity and interest. Ron Paul's two greatest moments were one : 1. When he was asked about abolishing the IRS during MSNBC debate...and 2. When Rudy went after him (altough RP blew a chance to hit back at Rudy)

RP's greatest hits aside, emotion runs a lot of the market, and RP is a product that has to be sold. I'm not sure how much emotion the debate clips make when a majority of Americans don't even watch them.

If RP's campaign people continue to play nice-nice with these milk toast ads.....they'll never inspire the masses. There is a reason why the Establishment media bitches about "negative ads"......THEY WORK!

There's one little problem here. It isn't his "people", its RP that doesn't approve of this. If RP said to attack other candidates they would do it.

Anyone who thinks RP has a shot at this WITHOUT running hard hitting ATTACK ads is living in a fantasy.

You dont' even have to run attack ads when you can just say something controversial at the right time and get a ton of attention for it. That isn't his style, though, so you're going to have to find another way to win. That is, if you want RP to win?

I noticed that some people here don't have a good understanding of the emotional part of advertising and marketing as it relates to politics. Here is a link to the first of a four part series that will take you four hours to watch, but is very informative on the subject.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151&q=bbc+1+of+4&total=1424&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

In short, either you don't have a good understanding of RP, or I don't.

Lord Xar
08-14-2007, 07:02 PM
I am sick of hearing crap from HQ about how we do things when they refuse to tell us themselves and their campaign is being run by a bunch of idiots.

I told a guy today that I was working 90 hours per week on this campaign and wanted to ask a question. We got into a debate about abortion and then he told me that a pro-choice person has no business being a part of this campaign and I should go support Hillary Clinton.

So, now, defend that!

As far as Iowa goes it was a fiasco. I made over 1000 calls before they bothered to put up his schedule for appearances. Hence, I told all callers that he was not going to be in Iowa at all. That turned a lot of people off.

Plus, it would have been a little easier to sell a name they had at least heard of... waiting until 3 days before the election to put up an ad?

Plus, I had several people with tons of money ask me how they could contribute to the campaign and the campaign people had not gotten back to them. Brilliant. Just great.

I send out message after message and they are all ignored. That is very polite. Don't tell me about busy. I don't stop working night or day for the man. The least you can do is ANSWER A FREAKIN EMAIL!

I am tired of it all. I work my fingers to the bone and am yelled at, hung up on, told invalid information about voting registration in my state, and ignored.

What do you think you are going to do about NH? What can you do? Have they given out any numbers yet? They have them all. Have they set up any ads there yet? No. Why should we learn from Iowa when it went so well. No reason we should have beaten an insane monster like Tancredo.

Maybe you should be working for the campaign and not that "video girl" they picked up.... not knowing much about her, it seems you are cranking it out.

jjschless
08-14-2007, 07:10 PM
The simplest answer is often the correct one.

Attack ads are more of the same. America seems fed up with "more of the same" hence the Revolution.

Attack ads only have an effect if the media incorporates them or their Ideas into the daily brainwashing. Do you think Fox is going to help Dr. Paul, or Wolf or George S.?

YouTube is the only network that is kind to Dr. Paul and thats only because the deepest trenches of the Revolution are laid there.

Negative actions have a negative effect on a positive candidate.

cujothekitten
08-14-2007, 07:13 PM
I send out message after message and they are all ignored. That is very polite. Don't tell me about busy. I don't stop working night or day for the man. The least you can do is ANSWER A FREAKIN EMAIL!

Part of the reason is the regulations on campaigning. The national campaign cannot be working with the grassroots. We get bumper stickers and a "hellva job guys" but that's all we can really get from them. They can't direct us.

MsDoodahs
08-14-2007, 07:19 PM
Part of the reason is the regulations on campaigning. The national campaign cannot be working with the grassroots. We get bumper stickers and a "hellva job guys" but that's all we can really get from them. They can't direct us.

Exactly.

Badger Paul
08-14-2007, 07:19 PM
How many times does this have to be said? Whatever plans or projects you've got in the works, JUST DO THEM!

If we sat on our hands and did nothing but bitched that HQ wasn't running ads in Iowa, we wouldn't have gotten over 1,300 votes. But did we? No dammit we acted! We paid for the flipping ads ourselves, we created them oursleves and put them on the air ourselves and they turned out to be pretty darn good ones.

The one thing I hope this camapaign does more than anything else is teaches personal initative once again. Why is it that some people wait the enitre lives for a handout or an order or a directive? Have we become of nation of helpless robots waitings waiting for someone to command us?

JUST DO IT! That's all you need to hear.

Alabama Supporter
08-14-2007, 07:35 PM
The campaign needs to narrow its message in a way. He needs to be talking about the big WINNING issues and not get mixed up in talking about crap like Dept. of Ed and Homeland Security office.

Most idiot Americans think its good to have the Dept of Ed and Homeland Security. You can't address these issues in 30 seconds like he is being forced to do.

I thought the ads were amateur but then again I don't know what appeals to 50+ Iowans.

Roxi
08-14-2007, 08:44 PM
Just hope we didn't chase them off in Iowa with the "I Smoke Pot and I Vote" signs, and by yelling at the bus riders about war.


and putting signs on other people HARLEY'S!!!

Scribbler de Stebbing
08-14-2007, 08:57 PM
Plus, I had several people with tons of money ask me how they could contribute to the campaign and the campaign people had not gotten back to them. Brilliant. Just great.

I send out message after message and they are all ignored. That is very polite. Don't tell me about busy. I don't stop working night or day for the man. The least you can do is ANSWER A FREAKIN EMAIL!

They should get volunteers to triage email. I'd be happy to do it for a couple hours a day. Answer the easy questions such as "how may I donate," forward interview requests to the scheduler, delete any email containing the word "illuminati," etc.

In these days of telecommuting, there's no reason people can't volunteer from Minnesota. But there's no way to get through to them on this. We could be doing SO MUCH work out here.

ronpaulhawaii
08-14-2007, 11:21 PM
I just had an idea. What if Ron Paul launched smear ads against...Ron Paul, but overly sarcastic. Like "Ron Paul does not want to take care of you, he has consistently fought against a womans right to kill her unborn child, he has voted against expensive government hand outs aimed at giving you a free ride, and has never voted to raise taxes and increase the size and scope of government to keep a close eye on you for your own good....I'm Ron Paul and I approved this message"

I would like to think it wouldn't just go over everyones head and leave them thinking it's an actual smear.

LOL

As many have repeated, RP is not a blistering attack kind of guy...

...and people are sick of that crap anyway. That is one reason he is so refreshing.

How many times has this forum tried to make a Remnants of Liberty PAC? Perhaps it's time to try again;

"EMILY's List was founded in 1985, when 25 women met in the home of Ellen Malcolm."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMILY%27s_List

"2004 Presidential election
In the 2004 elections, the top 10 PACs by money spent by themselves, their affiliates and subsidiaries were as follows:

1-EMILY's List $22,767,521
2-Service Employees International Union $12,899,352
3-American Federation of Teachers $12,789,296
4-American Medical Association $11,901,542
5-National Rifle Association $11,173,358
6-Teamsters Union $11,128,729
7-International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $10,819,724
8-National Education Association $10,521,538
9-American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees $9,882,022
10-Laborers' International Union of North America $9,523,837 "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_action_committee

Why and How is Emily so successful?



Ouch.... That, was, a legitimate burn.

Triple ouch..., glad JR let it out..., that kinda $#!+ hurts. '...go work for Hillarudy...', what an @$$.


They should get volunteers to triage email. I'd be happy to do it for a couple hours a day. Answer the easy questions such as "how may I donate," forward interview requests to the scheduler, delete any email containing the word "illuminati," etc.

In these days of telecommuting, there's no reason people can't volunteer from Minnesota. But there's no way to get through to them on this. We could be doing SO MUCH work out here.

Yeah, the e-mail triage is a good idea, I'd be able to handle an hour a day at least.

Is there some reason they cannot have us help them like that?

bygone
08-14-2007, 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by SWATH
I just had an idea. What if Ron Paul launched smear ads against...Ron Paul, but overly sarcastic. Like "Ron Paul does not want to take care of you, he has consistently fought against a womans right to kill her unborn child, he has voted against expensive government hand outs aimed at giving you a free ride, and has never voted to raise taxes and increase the size and scope of government to keep a close eye on you for your own good....I'm Ron Paul and I approved this message"


Best. Ad. Ever.