POLL: Vote count fraud a real issue or not?

[Bubba]

I'd like to see a cross-section on how many folks believe (or not) that there is widespread corruption in the counting process and if so, perhaps a new forum room could be created?

Please note that you get two chances to vote:

1) for severity
2) dedicated forum room

vote for either or both (sorry but the %'s are all lumped together and doesn't distinguish between the two)

Thank you and have a pleasant evening.

"V"

[nate895]

Our vote system is a total fraud, either that or the AP is the worst reporting agency ever. I suppose the second part is possible.

[AJ Antimony]

60-70% of Americans want out of Iraq.

Ron Paul signs DOMINATE every state. Other candidates don't even have signs.

Ron Paul supporters have PASSION like no other.

Ron Paul won every single TV debate (or heinously close).

Ron Paul raises money without even calling for it.

Yet John McCain is dominating when it comes to primary victories.

Vote fraud? ABSOLUTELY

[Carole]

Just ran across these posts:


http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/ron_paul_will_not_support_a_jo.html


Please, please, consider the FACT that VOTE RESULTS ARE PRODUCED BY SOFTWARE, not the people! I don't care what bubble you fill in, or what you touch on the screen, it is the voting machine's computer program that determines which candidate gets your vote.
I am a computer programmer. I have looked into this. Although touch screen and optical scan voting machines can be hacked, it isn't necessary to resort to hacking. States do not examine the software on the actual memory devices used during the election that are needed to run touch screen and optical scan machines. THIS SOFTWARE IS KEPT SECRET!
It is appalling that more than 20 states do not have a paper trail to verify the machine's software. Just switching to optical scan machines with paper ballots is not the solution.
If the race is not close, states prohibit a large hand recount to verify the totals produced by the voting machine's software. To prevent any hand recount, the programmer just codes a wide spread into the totals. Therefore, the programmer can give your vote to another candidate, and then proceed to print out your candidate's name for a paper trail, and get away with it.
Do you think any tests of the voting machines prior to the start of the election prove the machines are safe? Think again. All it takes is a few minutes to switch a memory card or ROM chip that will give the voting machine new corrupt code instructions. You just need to do this to one machine to alter election results. Besides, you don't have to resort to switching memory devices.
It is very simple for a programmer to fool any testing of a voting machine. I can think of two methods right away. If the state mandates a test of 5000 votes, write the code to begin corrupting votes after 5000 votes have been fed thru the machine. Or, take advantage of the internal clock on some voting machines. Write the program to use corrupt code instructions only on election day, election time. Either method used to scam the testing only takes a few lines of code to pull off.
In fact, rigging an election can be done by just one programmer, because the code instructions needed to alter the votes are just too easy.
The fix is in and it's working. Think about it. The majority of Americans want us out of Iraq. How could John "100 years in Iraq" McCain possibly be so popular?! Even the evangelicals don't like him. McCain's "surge" is based on electronic votes, not people votes!
Since some states are switching to optical scan machines, we the people have an opportunity to expose tampered voting machines. Voters must mount a campaign to have the Secretary of State mandate a hand count of at least 50 percent of the paper ballots to verify the results based on the voting machine's software. Just doing a hand count of 1 percent is not statistically significant enough to prove anything. And as I stated, making a contingency of a close vote to permit hand counts will just be circumvented by the programmer.
Touch screen machines with no paper trail are being used for the Texas primary on March 4th. I predict we will see Ron Paul 'lose' in the primary for his congressional seat, after being flooded with propaganda about Ron Paul's close primary race.
Furthermore, unless we get states on board to force a hand count of paper ballots at local precincts in November, writing in Ron Paul's name will just be ignored by the rigged voting machines!
ALL VOTERS CONCERNED ABOUT ACCURATE VOTE COUNTS MUST visit these websites: www.projectvotecount.com and www.blackboxvoting.org.
SIGN UP NOW to become an active participant TO STOP VOTE FRAUD IN TEXAS AND OHIO! Sign up to start a 'protect the vote' project in your state!
Posted by: Sue | February 11, 2008 6:00 PM
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/ron_paul_will_not_support_a_jo.html

InsaneMcCain?
How about the Keating-7 scandal? Or for fun, the photo of sniveling toady McCain hugging Bush (the man who slandered McCain's adopted child only months prior to the photo - some 'family values' eh McInsane?) Or how about his 'bomb-bomb-bomb-Iran' performance? Or his crowing how safe he was walking through Bagdad - protected by heavy military equipment and surrounded by hundreds of troops? Or his blather at a recent debate when Ron Paul asked him about the Plunge Protection Team? Or his admitting he knows Nothing about economics - during this time of economic crisis? Or his berserk snickers during debates?
Or as he was eloquently described "stumbling bumbling, Mad John McCain rambles on and on ... he's Alzheimer's up close and ugly."
Posted by: tquigly | February 11, 2008 7:41 PM
________________________________________
Don't worry the North Vietnamese tapes will be released. The Busch or Bush does not have enough money to hold em back...
Posted by: john AKA highwaytoserfdom | February 11, 2008 8:10 PM

This Warfare/Welfare State is totally dependent on a Monetary System that is quickly faltering and reaching its Maximum Possible Life-Span. As that reality smacks the American People in the face like a hammer, we will all wish we had listened to Ron Paul. When the throws of hyper-inflation take their toll on this country, when we find it cheaper to burn bundles of worthless paper dollars then fire wood, perhaps then the American People will once again use the will-power and force necessary to become masters of their government in the midst of a chaotic future.
Posted by: Republicae | February 12, 2008 11:31 AM
'Ron Paul' is easy to spell. November write-in, anyone?
Posted by: Leslie Webb | February 12, 2008 11:50 AM
100 years of war is what every American dreams for their children.
Posted by: CP | February 12, 2008 2:03 PM


DRAFT RON PAUL
http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin75.htm
~~~~~~~~~~

[pinkmandy]

RAMPANT. If it were legit there would be no fear of doing hand counts and paper ballots. They FIGHT the paper ballot initiatives.

We have a right to KNOW our votes count. We don't- we are "trusting" machines and their programmers. They fight us on transparent voting, the most basic expectation of a free society imo. The voting system needs to go! I'd love to see a massive civil suit in every state. And what was that about delegates not being able to vote at convention if they are involved in a lawsuit at the time? :)

[pacelli]

I voted yes to a voter fraud forum room. I'd like to nominate Bev Harris as moderator of that specific forum room. www.blackboxvoting.org . She runs a non-profit business, so not sure if that would create a conflict for her.

[Bubba]

I voted yes to a voter fraud forum room. I'd like to nominate Bev Harris as moderator of that specific forum room. www.blackboxvoting.org . She runs a non-profit business, so not sure if that would create a conflict for her.

Second that Motion. I would not expect any conflict whatsoever. This is the only way to stop the NWOdor monster.

[Paul4Prez]

We need to do all we can to make sure elections are fair, open, and easily audited, but I don't think vote fraud cost Ron Paul the election, by any means.

Too many Americans are not registered to vote. Too many Ron Paul supporters didn't bother to register Republican on time. Too many Americans let the media tell them who is a serious candidate and who is not. Too few Americans do their own research on the candidates.

Ron Paul had enough support, even at 5-10% of the population, to win almost every primary, if all of his supporters had voted.

The powers-that-be don't need to cheat in counting votes, when people give up their own power by not using it.

[Working Poor]

I believe there is vote fraud. Where is the outrage?

[NEPA_Revolution]

There would be some if people knew about it.

[pinkmandy]

Fraud in the beginning was all it took to justify excluding him thereafter. It had a snowball effect. Yes, imo, it may have cost him the election.

Transparent voting + fair media coverage = President Ron Paul

[Bubba]

I believe there is vote fraud. Where is the outrage?

No kidding. Remember a couple of years ago with the Spanish subway bombs? The next day the President tried to enact martial law or some stupid thing and the whole country went crazy and physically dragged him out office.

In Mexico(?) same thing.

Paris - the students almost burned the city to the ground protesting tuition.

Somewhere in India: The monkeys actually stormed the Mayor's office and stomped him to death.

USA - can't even get people to vote on vote fraud.

sheesh.

[NEPA_Revolution]

This is a shining tribute to the MSM. Get yor info from the internet for the love of the constitution!

[The_Ruffneck]

I voted 'some'.
Surely if it was that rampant then Ron Paul would never have won his Texas seat in the first place if the neocons despise him so much?

[Working Poor]

I voted 'some'.
Surely if it was that rampant then Ron Paul would never have won his Texas seat in the first place if the neocons despise him so much?


Do you remember the 2000 vote in Florida? In Ohio dead people voted for Bush.:rolleyes:


Ron Paul is probably getting far more votes than are being counted. Does anyone really care? It is time to get out of our denial.

[ChickenHawk]

I think the evidence supports the "some" answer. I know many think that any election that Diebold touches is a fraud but I don't think the evidence supports that. I also think that a lot of voter fraud slips under the radar because everyone is so preoccupied with Diebold. Fraud existed before Diebold and it will exist after Diebold. Having said that, electronic voting is particularly insidious because if the election is rigged there is no way it could ever be proven. The energy spent to fight vote fraud should be focused on eliminating paperless voting and making sure the voting is as transparent as possible. Screaming about how every machine that is used to count paper ballots is rigged to steal the election is a silly distraction. Hand counts have proven time and again that the machines used to count paper ballots work and if they don't it can be verified.

[Patriot123]

60-70% of Americans want out of Iraq.

Ron Paul signs DOMINATE every state. Other candidates don't even have signs.

Ron Paul supporters have PASSION like no other.

Ron Paul won every single TV debate (or heinously close).

Ron Paul raises money without even calling for it.

Yet John McCain is dominating when it comes to primary victories.

Vote fraud? ABSOLUTELY

Or maybe Americans are just sheep? ;)

[Expatriate]

Vote fraud and manipulation is painfully obvious IMHO, just watch some of these videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq9WVuKGwOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWKxwVZmomc

all the videos on this channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/BlackBoxVoting

But don't get depressed.
Those of us who stay on this till the end will be rewarded by finally seeing the culprits (or at least, the scapegoats) convicted of some serious fraud and conspiracy charges. There's no way this can be covered up if there is a professional investigation into it.

What I would like to know is; can the results of the primary/election be changed if it is discovered to have been fraudulent? Or would the "winner" remain the nominee or President?

I seem to remember that Bush only won in 2004 because a victory in Ohio, and after the election two Ohio officials were convicted of tampering with the votes and imprisoned. But Dubya is still the President? So if you can postpone the serious investigations until after you "win" you're scot free?

[libertythor]

I voted "some" and yes to a forum.

[1836]

60-70% of Americans want out of Iraq.

Ron Paul signs DOMINATE every state. Other candidates don't even have signs.

Ron Paul supporters have PASSION like no other.

Ron Paul won every single TV debate (or heinously close).

Ron Paul raises money without even calling for it.

Yet John McCain is dominating when it comes to primary victories.

Vote fraud? ABSOLUTELY

This sounds like someone who can't accept that we aren't there, just yet. This sounds like someone who could give up when we don't win the election.

We have to stay fighting, and whether or not there is vote fraud is frankly irrelevant to getting our message out.

That being said, clearly we have not done a good enough job of getting Republicans to vote for us. Sign count and passionate supporters only mean so much; you have to get the rank and file to vote for you.

[Expatriate]

We have to stay fighting, and whether or not there is vote fraud is frankly irrelevant to getting our message out.

That is a very good point, from my experience 9 out of 10 people can be converted with rational discussion. There is no way we can lose this fight in the long run, we just have to NEVER GIVE UP. Slow and steady wins the race...

Once 90% of Americans support RP's message, there will be no way the media can continue to act the way it does now without risking serious consequences.

[libertythor]

Somewhere in India: The monkeys actually stormed the Mayor's office and stomped him to death.



Monkeys?

[libertythor]

Monkeys?

LOL I just googled it. Oh the crazy things that happen!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7055625.stm

[libertythor]

bump

[Expatriate]

LOL I just googled it. Oh the crazy things that happen!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7055625.stm

Wow, that's kind of sad that the mayor was murdered by monkeys. I wonder how many people die from monkey attacks?

Maybe the monkeys were angry that their votes didn't count:D