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alarga
02-13-2008, 03:12 PM
The big risk that McSwine can reach the magic number and avoid a brokered convention is the winner takes all states. So how to block him from getting all delegates in such states where he is estimated to win?

I've made this point before but noone seems to notice. Wouldn't it be tactically smart to join forces with the Hucksters in a common ballot in those winner take all states where McSwine is polled highest? At this point any and every trick in the book should be applied.

The other candidates did this in LA ("pro-life, pro family") to block a RP win and its only fitting they get a taste of their own poison. We've already made a Huckster deal where Paul got 3 token delegates as a reward for throwin his support behind the Huckster.

HOWEVER - this time Huck has more too loose since he is at second place and it will be beneficial for him if RP gets most delegates of a joint list and he gets some token candidates just to block McSwine. I bet such a joint list would also get extra votes as a protest against McSwine as well as some Romney votes.

Im not suggesting to vote for Huck. Im not even suggesting joint lists in all states. Im talking about those remaining winner takes all states where McSwine is strongest.

I cant see any other alternative to block him from reaching the required amount of delegates that secures his position and avoids a brokered convention.

This will also buy us time - which is on our side since McSwines support will decrease if he gets beaten state by state onwards. And that would increase peoples perception of RP as "electable" and perhaps give us the extra boost to make a few clean RP wins.

Anyone who is involved in the RP organization of the remaining states - please respond! What say ye?

billjarrett
02-13-2008, 03:20 PM
I have a hundred reasons to agree with you, but a hundred reasons to disagree with you.

No matter though, HQ came out earlier this week and said to vote for Paul. That we were going for the nomination not a brokered convention. Interpret that as you will I guess, I still don't get it...

jrich4rpaul
02-13-2008, 03:22 PM
No matter though, HQ came out earlier this week and said to vote for Paul. That we were going for the nomination not a brokered convention. Interpret that as you will I guess, I still don't get it...

+1

Ron Paul Fan
02-13-2008, 03:23 PM
There is only 1 more state that is winner take all, and that's Vermont on 3/4 with a whole 17 delegates. Just face it guys, a brokered convention has no chance of happening and McCain will steamroll to the nomination.

nate895
02-13-2008, 03:25 PM
Look at my delegate projections (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=117904) thread.

I found it nearly impossible for McCain to come out with an outright win, the media keeps saying no more winner-take-alls (which is the case if talking about every delegate), not the case, and the winner-take-all by CDs tend to favor Huckabee.

alarga
02-13-2008, 03:25 PM
Whos talking about voting for the Huckster? Im talking about getting THEM to vote for RP either directly or on a joint list (ala LAs pro family) in order to beat McCain. This will bring Paul many delegates which means going for the nomination - and a few to the Huckster yes (depends on the deal between the campaigns) - but MUCH BETTER than getting ZERO delegates and let McCain GET ALL OF THEM!

I cant imagine anyone in the RP campaign being against this??? Then someone needs to investigate if they get their salary from the McCain Campaign!

nate895
02-13-2008, 03:26 PM
Whos talking about voting for the Huckster? Im talking about getting THEM to vote for RP either directly or on a joint list (ala LAs pro family) in order to beat McCain. This will bring Paul many delegates which means going for the nomination - and a few to the Huckster yes (depends on the deal between the campaigns) - but MUCH BETTER than getting ZERO delegates and let McCain GET ALL OF THEM!

I cant imagine anyone in the RP campaign being against this??? Then someone needs to investigate if they get their salary from the McCain Campaign!

We can do this in the Pennsylvania Primary.

alarga
02-13-2008, 03:27 PM
Look at my delegate projections (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=117904) thread.

I found it nearly impossible for McCain to come out with an outright win, the media keeps saying no more winner-take-alls (which is the case if talking about every delegate), not the case, and the winner-take-all by CDs tend to favor Huckabee.

Oh I see!

What a pity that this strategy wasn't implemented PRIOR to super tuesday.

brandon
02-13-2008, 03:29 PM
We can do this in the Pennsylvania Primary.

PA delegates are not bound to the presidential popularity contest. Vote Paul in PA

KevinR
02-13-2008, 03:29 PM
btw a lot of people were saying yesterday to vote for huckabee and what did that get us? Him losing and us losing even more :[

A Ron Paul Rebel
02-13-2008, 03:31 PM
Then let's have the Huksters go first and throw their vote OUR way.
Then maybe once they've help Dr. Paul win a state, we'll return the favor!:cool:

alarga
02-13-2008, 03:34 PM
This has to be an organized thing - not lets see who votes for who. For instance a joint list where the campaigns have a deal of which delegates goes where. Or like in the state where the RP delegates voted for the Huckster in order to get 3 as a reward (only this time THEY get the tokens and Paul the bulk).

JS4Pat
02-13-2008, 03:34 PM
Wouldn't it be tactically smart to join forces with the Hucksters in a common ballot in those winner take all states where McSwine is polled highest?

Possibly - but I get the feeling the Huckster is in McSwine's pocket.

Why is he not out there just tearing apart McSwine?
Answer: He wants to be in the game after the Primaries are over. He wants a VP or Cabinet position. He is playing nice.

It's Huck 1st - Party 2nd - Country 3rd :mad:

alarga
02-13-2008, 03:37 PM
Why is he not out there just tearing apart McSwine?
Answer: He wants to be in the game after the Primaries are over. He wants a VP or Cabinet position. He is playing nice.

It's Huck 1st - Party 2nd - Country 3rd :mad:

No doubt. But that is immaterial. Because his voters believes in him and wants him in the white house, and the deal has to be made with those local hucksters in any given state(s).

s35wf
02-13-2008, 03:39 PM
Has anyone dialogue with hucks army, would they help Paul win a state to defeat mcshame and get this to a brokered convention???

cazeringue
02-13-2008, 03:42 PM
Look, there is an Outside chance that McCAin will McMelt down or have a stroke. So, unless that happens, he is the Republican NOminee.

What we, as Ron Paul supporters and Liberty Torch bearers, need to be focused is on the Liberty March on DC and spreading the movement to others. Educate our brothers and sisters with the message of Ron Paul locally and to all whom you meet, like a ripple in the ocean.

Alot can happen between now and November. It's not a question of HOW but a mindset that the Constitution will be RESTORED.

Paul may or may not end up being president, but Liberty will be RESTORED. Basically, our intention of the outcome is bigger than who is or isn't president. Paul just happened to be the messenger... sort of like JOHN the Baptist. Maybe if Paul was the nominee, things would not have changed soo much and he would have been rendered ineffective in that position.

alarga
02-13-2008, 03:42 PM
Has anyone dialogue with hucks army, would they help Paul win a state to defeat mcshame and get this to a brokered convention???

Good question. Their motivation however, would not be a brokered convention but a block of McSwine to increase the Hucksters direct win. Brokered convention is OUR advantage.

nate895
02-13-2008, 03:45 PM
PA delegates are not bound to the presidential popularity contest. Vote Paul in PA

That's what I was saying, maybe we can get Huckabee and Paul people to have the same delegate planks.

alarga
02-13-2008, 03:45 PM
Look, there is an Outside chance that McCAin will McMelt down or have a stroke. So, unless that happens, he is the Republican NOminee.

What we, as Ron Paul supporters and Liberty Torch bearers, need to be focused is on the Liberty March on DC and spreading the movement to others. Educate our brothers and sisters with the message of Ron Paul locally and to all whom you meet, like a ripple in the ocean.

Alot can happen between now and November. It's not a question of HOW but a mindset that the Constitution will be RESTORED.

Paul may or may not end up being president, but Liberty will be RESTORED. Basically, our intention of the outcome is bigger than who is or isn't president. Paul just happened to be the messenger... sort of like JOHN the Baptist. Maybe if Paul was the nominee, things would not have changed soo much and he would have been rendered ineffective in that position.


How can this threaten the march? Of course thats a priority - but have we totally given up on the white house race already?

This strategy would neither drain the official campaign nor the grassroots, it just concerns those in charge of the political dealings in the state(s) where this may be a rational move.

nate895
02-13-2008, 03:47 PM
Look, there is an Outside chance that McCAin will McMelt down or have a stroke. So, unless that happens, he is the Republican NOminee.

What we, as Ron Paul supporters and Liberty Torch bearers, need to be focused is on the Liberty March on DC and spreading the movement to others. Educate our brothers and sisters with the message of Ron Paul locally and to all whom you meet, like a ripple in the ocean.

Alot can happen between now and November. It's not a question of HOW but a mindset that the Constitution will be RESTORED.

Paul may or may not end up being president, but Liberty will be RESTORED. Basically, our intention of the outcome is bigger than who is or isn't president. Paul just happened to be the messenger... sort of like JOHN the Baptist. Maybe if Paul was the nominee, things would not have changed soo much and he would have been rendered ineffective in that position.

Wrong, it is almost impossible for him to clinch the Republican Nomination, see my delegate projections thread.

mikeycapz
02-13-2008, 03:50 PM
Correct me if im wrong. McCain doesn't have all the delegates they say he has. Example in Florida he won and it is a so called winner take all but he has still yet to receive 1 delegate. The only way he could take all in Florida is if Dr. Paul drops out and Huckabee drops out, which is not likely. We could still collect delegates from Florida even tho we did not win the winner take all.

nbhadja
02-13-2008, 03:51 PM
There is only 1 more state that is winner take all, and that's Vermont on 3/4 with a whole 17 delegates. Just face it guys, a brokered convention has no chance of happening and McCain will steamroll to the nomination.

When was the last time you EVER had a positive comment on these boards?

nate895
02-13-2008, 03:55 PM
There is only 1 more state that is winner take all, and that's Vermont on 3/4 with a whole 17 delegates. Just face it guys, a brokered convention has no chance of happening and McCain will steamroll to the nomination.

Ohio, Vermont, and Wisconsin are winner take all statewide or by Congressional District.

Texas is winner-take-all if someone gets more than 50% of the vote.

nate895
02-13-2008, 03:56 PM
Correct me if im wrong. McCain doesn't have all the delegates they say he has. Example in Florida he won and it is a so called winner take all but he has still yet to receive 1 delegate. The only way he could take all in Florida is if Dr. Paul drops out and Huckabee drops out, which is not likely. We could still collect delegates from Florida even tho we did not win the winner take all.

He has pledged delegates, that haven't technically been apportioned yet though.

The plan is to have 1,191 "sleeper" delegates that will vote for Paul when they become unbound.

alarga
02-13-2008, 03:57 PM
Correct me if im wrong. McCain doesn't have all the delegates they say he has. Example in Florida he won and it is a so called winner take all but he has still yet to receive 1 delegate. The only way he could take all in Florida is if Dr. Paul drops out and Huckabee drops out, which is not likely. We could still collect delegates from Florida even tho we did not win the winner take all.

True. But if they stick to the estimates, and he wins, then he takes all because they are pledged.

But this makes me think: Is it too late to make such deals in winner takes all states where the election is over and where McSwine won - but not in a number higher than Hucks and Pauls together?

Dylbro
02-13-2008, 03:58 PM
Not 1 candidate has the number of delegates the media reports...

The delegates in most states have not been decided at the state level.

Has the media gone to each of these elected delegates and asked them who they are going to vote for? No, the media is guessing that the delegates represent the same percentage of the populace that votes in the primaries and then assigns delegates. This is not true, most people do not want to become delegates... only the "real" grassroots become delegates.

Until the convention happens all candidates have ZERO delegates. You can hope that each of the delegates that have been "morally bound" to a candidate will vote for him but you cannot force them. You can speculate, you can guess but until its over it aint over. This is why it is important to become a delegate and only vote for Ron Paul delegates.

limequat
02-13-2008, 04:06 PM
Ohio, Vermont, and Wisconsin are winner take all statewide or by Congressional District.

Texas is winner-take-all if someone gets more than 50% of the vote.

My projections have Ohio and Wisconsin going to Huck with Vermont going to McCain. McCain WILL NOT have enough pledged delegates to win on the first ballot. The question is how many unpledged delegates will vote for him.

nate895
02-13-2008, 04:08 PM
My projections have Ohio and Wisconsin going to Huck with Vermont going to McCain. McCain WILL NOT have enough pledged delegates to win on the first ballot. The question is how many unpledged delegates will vote for him.

I have my own, I believe it is all but impossible for him to officially wrap it up. He may get it on the first ballot if the unpledged and the unknowns break strongly for him, however.

You can see my math here. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=120048)

limequat
02-13-2008, 04:11 PM
I have my own, I believe it is all but impossible for him to officially wrap it up. He may get it on the first ballot if the unpledged and the unknowns break strongly for him, however.

You can see my math here. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=120048)

Yes, we agree on that much. McCain can only win on the first ballot if he gets a lot of the unpledged delegates.

mikeycapz
02-13-2008, 04:12 PM
True. But if they stick to the estimates, and he wins, then he takes all because they are pledged.

But this makes me think: Is it too late to make such deals in winner takes all states where the election is over and where McSwine won - but not in a number higher than Hucks and Pauls together?

How could they go by the estimates? they are obviously wrong. Ron has more than 16 delegates and I doubt McCain really has the 800 whatever delegates they say he has. And it is not to late to collect delegates in winner take all states. If you live in Florida become a delegate a.s.a.p. h ttp://www.rpof.org/rnc.php

Dylbro
02-13-2008, 04:15 PM
Pledged does not mean gaurenteed... they are morally bound but perhaps the higher morallity of saving the country and protecting the constitution will take hold. Time will only tell.

Banana
02-13-2008, 04:16 PM
I think large majority of delegates are bound, and bound by state law... Even assuming all 'morally-bound' were voting the other way, it wouldn't be enough...

nate895
02-13-2008, 04:24 PM
I think large majority of delegates are bound, and bound by state law... Even assuming all 'morally-bound' were voting the other way, it wouldn't be enough...

You still didn't get my math. It is nearly impossible for him, nearly impossible, to lock it up.

Banana
02-13-2008, 04:26 PM
Him referring to who?

If Huckabee, then yes that's right. Not enough delegates left.

If McCain, it's just shy of two hundred to clinch it, no?

nate895
02-13-2008, 04:29 PM
Him referring to who?

If Huckabee, then yes that's right. Not enough delegates left.

If McCain, it's just shy of two hundred to clinch it, no?

Yes, but it's nearly impossible for McCain to get those delegates outright. See my spreadsheet. (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=piL3Xdbpib97P4e7ndQBxXA)

And if you don't think the rules back this up see:

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/R-DSVE.phtml

P.S. We may get 27 Indiana delegates.

Banana
02-13-2008, 04:34 PM
Oh! I was confused, looking at the spreadsheet, thinking I was looking at *present* count but realized that you were giving a projected *total* based on estimate (you're using $/voter, right?)

I don't know enough if the math will hold, so I'll leave it alone then. That said, I sincerely hope enough of delegates for McCain/Huckabee/Romney are RP supporters. :)

nate895
02-13-2008, 04:52 PM
Oh! I was confused, looking at the spreadsheet, thinking I was looking at *present* count but realized that you were giving a projected *total* based on estimate (you're using $/voter, right?)

I don't know enough if the math will hold, so I'll leave it alone then. That said, I sincerely hope enough of delegates for McCain/Huckabee/Romney are RP supporters. :)

I'm using how good they'll do based on the voter makeup and exit/entrance polls done from previous primaries and caucuses. States like Indiana, Ohio, and Texas, GOP voters closely reflect those of Iowa, Kansas, and Southern States, so I projected they'd go for Huckabee. I then assumed for proportional ones where McCain would do better that Huckabee would get apx. 40% of the vote. Puerto Rico I assumed Huckabee would get at least the 20% threshold and come in second.

Dylbro
02-13-2008, 05:10 PM
I think large majority of delegates are bound, and bound by state law... Even assuming all 'morally-bound' were voting the other way, it wouldn't be enough...

All this is is assuming, the entire delegate count so far is all assumptions. Until you get to the convention you will not know how many Ron Paul supporters actually became delegates compared to the other candidates. You can unbind delegates... you can change the party completely at the convention with the grassroots. Its entire platform can be changed.

The election process is still completely grassroots but the media wants you to think you don't have the power to change it. That it is over and your participation does not count. This is FALSE. The delegates decide the nominee, the individual people that became a delegate will shape the party. This is what we are doing and why it is not important what the media is saying. Stop listening to them, turn off the tv. Ron Paul knows what he is doing. Believe in yourself and encourage others to believe. Stop with these delegate counting nonsense it means nothing, go out there and get other people to actually become delegates it WILL make a difference.

nate895
02-13-2008, 05:37 PM
bumpity

coffeewithchess
02-13-2008, 06:38 PM
No matter though, HQ came out earlier this week and said to vote for Paul.

Yea, this is the same HQ that asked us for $12 million in the 4th quarter and we gave them $19 million, and they wasted it on garbage. This is the same HQ that took two months to actually call Glenn Beck back and schedule an interview after they had already canceled on Glenn Beck before. This is the same HQ that also scheduled an interview with Neal Boortz and backed out. I say we vote for Huckabee all we can, at this point, HQ is an absolute failure and I hope that we are smart enough to realize that Huckabee is our only chance at a brokered convention at this point.

kyleAF
02-13-2008, 06:53 PM
Oh I see!

What a pity that this strategy wasn't implemented PRIOR to super tuesday.

Decentralized control AND decentralized execution, which can best describe a grassroots movement operating on its own, does not allow for strategy, merely tactics.

The HQ can offer strategic guidance to everyone (the definition of strategic is that it encompasses the "big picture"), but the individual meetup groups and precincts can only execute guerilla style tactical methods without this centralized control factor.

If one frames this entire race in the context of a war, with the objective being an eventual presidential nomination (for this battle...a national election being the final battle), this becomes more obvious.

As we like to say in the military: the best method is Centralized control, and decentralized execution.

Unfortunately, campaign financing regulations prevent many direct lines of communication and control between the campaign HQ and the grassroots efforts, so we're stuck with perhaps a strategic vision within the campaign, but an inability to most effectively execute it within the decentralized and disjoint ranks of the grassroots.

In short: Yes, such strategy is nice to think about (especially in the perfect vision of hindsight), but unless its massed and organized, it's not as uber-effective as it may seem, as some will agree and press with it, while others will disagree and resist it.

kyleAF
02-13-2008, 07:07 PM
All this is is assuming, the entire delegate count so far is all assumptions. Until you get to the convention you will not know how many Ron Paul supporters actually became delegates compared to the other candidates. You can unbind delegates... you can change the party completely at the convention with the grassroots. Its entire platform can be changed.

The election process is still completely grassroots but the media wants you to think you don't have the power to change it. That it is over and your participation does not count. This is FALSE. The delegates decide the nominee, the individual people that became a delegate will shape the party. This is what we are doing and why it is not important what the media is saying. Stop listening to them, turn off the tv. Ron Paul knows what he is doing. Believe in yourself and encourage others to believe. Stop with these delegate counting nonsense it means nothing, go out there and get other people to actually become delegates it WILL make a difference.

QFT.

The convention rules are very interesting...

Delegates can be unbound, and even if not, their personal vote counts, and the state party may enact retribution on them only after they return home if they break with their binding.

The state delegate representative will announce the "state vote". But if any one delegate within that state objects to the announced "pre-tallied" vote, then everyone must cast their vote individually... and that stands as cast.

Also, each delegate is afforded 5 full minutes of speaking time. The forum operates under U.S. House of Representatives floor rules. (Ron Paul will be the veteran of this process, of course). This means everyone can "yield" their time to another speaker and a single individual can give a very long speech.

And yes, the national GOP platform is decided at the convention, and the more delegates per candidate, the more influence they have on it.

And if all else fails, the rules can be suspended outright if a majority of delegates in just 5 states call for it, and then it's a free for all vote. Even if McCain gets a majority, he does not necessarily win... who are the most determined delegates in the end...that's what will be the deciding factor.

A "brokered" convention is just a "contested" convention. I predict there will be quite a bit of political unrest and contention at this convention, regardless of CNN's projected delegate counts.

Check www.gop.com for the official rules.

syborius
02-13-2008, 07:21 PM
Yea, this is the same HQ that asked us for $12 million in the 4th quarter and we gave them $19 million, and they wasted it on garbage. This is the same HQ that took two months to actually call Glenn Beck back and schedule an interview after they had already canceled on Glenn Beck before. This is the same HQ that also scheduled an interview with Neal Boortz and backed out. I say we vote for Huckabee all we can, at this point, HQ is an absolute failure and I hope that we are smart enough to realize that Huckabee is our only chance at a brokered convention at this point.

I concur with this assessment.

limequat
02-13-2008, 07:36 PM
Vote for Huck, betray the revolution.

This isn't just about forcing a brokered convention.
1) Every RP supporter we identify is going into RP's database. He's keeping track of us for later use.

2) Every voter sends a signal to the rest of the US: "You are not alone." "There are other revolutionaries out there." "Ron Paul is for real."

Personally, I have faith in the good doctor. He has a plan. He's been doing this for longer than I've been alive. He speaks, I listen. He wants money, I donate. He says march, I march. I can't believe that he even has to tell us to vote for him. :rolleyes:

nc4rp
02-13-2008, 07:46 PM
True. But if they stick to the estimates, and he wins, then he takes all because they are pledged.

But this makes me think: Is it too late to make such deals in winner takes all states where the election is over and where McSwine won - but not in a number higher than Hucks and Pauls together?


Its to Huck's advantage to bargain with us. Why wouldn't they?

We want a brokered convention. Huck wants a brokered convention. win/win

alarga
02-14-2008, 01:31 AM
Its to Huck's advantage to bargain with us. Why wouldn't they?

We want a brokered convention. Huck wants a brokered convention. win/win

Yes, but if noone approaches them in the relevant states, nothing will happen and winner takes all.

Shaun
02-14-2008, 01:40 AM
Unbelievable!!
THERE WILL BE NO BROKERED CONVENTION.
You guys have too much time on your hands...
What a joke.
Let's focus on helping RP where we can, in his congressional race.
McI'llbombIran is the Republican nominee...
Now stop this delusional arguing for a goal that is absolutely unobtainable.

MrZach
02-14-2008, 01:40 AM
Tactical voting is a horrible idea, and one of the major reasons our nation is in the mess it is in today.

Let your vote represent your beliefs. Have the integrity to stand strong to what you believe in even when it may "kill" you in the end. Thats why we don't torture. Thats why we don't compromise on basic civil liberties to keep ourselves safe... That is why Ron Paul doesn't "trade votes" in the House. That is why we are going to vote for Ron Paul to show the world just how many of us there are.

patriotcalendar
02-14-2008, 01:49 AM
In Texas, the "teaming up" idea is a huge no-no.

If no candidate achieves a 51% majority, the 140 delegates are divided up proportionally. (that's a bit simplified, but close enough)

I would imagine, for similar types of reasons, this would be a no-no in practically any state.

Dylbro
02-14-2008, 02:10 AM
QFT.

The convention rules are very interesting...

Delegates can be unbound, and even if not, their personal vote counts, and the state party may enact retribution on them only after they return home if they break with their binding.

The state delegate representative will announce the "state vote". But if any one delegate within that state objects to the announced "pre-tallied" vote, then everyone must cast their vote individually... and that stands as cast.

Also, each delegate is afforded 5 full minutes of speaking time. The forum operates under U.S. House of Representatives floor rules. (Ron Paul will be the veteran of this process, of course). This means everyone can "yield" their time to another speaker and a single individual can give a very long speech.

And yes, the national GOP platform is decided at the convention, and the more delegates per candidate, the more influence they have on it.

And if all else fails, the rules can be suspended outright if a majority of delegates in just 5 states call for it, and then it's a free for all vote. Even if McCain gets a majority, he does not necessarily win... who are the most determined delegates in the end...that's what will be the deciding factor.

A "brokered" convention is just a "contested" convention. I predict there will be quite a bit of political unrest and contention at this convention, regardless of CNN's projected delegate counts.

Check www.gop.com for the official rules.

I really think everyone ignores us when we try to explain the real process so they can argue back and forth about delegate counts and other nonsense that won't really help anything.

Become a delegate and learn about it in your state, reach out and talk to others and become part of the process. This is what matter, STOP listening to anything coming out of the TV regarding this election. It is all bull.

PauliticsPolitics
02-14-2008, 02:36 AM
we all have to become local delegates, then we can assure there is not a majority.
There are alot of states not bound by the primaries...etc
read:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=119814

coffeewithchess
02-14-2008, 02:39 AM
Tactical voting is a horrible idea, and one of the major reasons our nation is in the mess it is in today.

Let your vote represent your beliefs. Have the integrity to stand strong to what you believe in even when it may "kill" you in the end. Thats why we don't torture. Thats why we don't compromise on basic civil liberties to keep ourselves safe... That is why Ron Paul doesn't "trade votes" in the House. That is why we are going to vote for Ron Paul to show the world just how many of us there are.

That's nice and all, but the fact is if we have the chance of helping Huckabee get a brokered convention, we should take it. By not voting for Huckabee in some states, we may let McCain win them...I would rather a chance at a brokered convention than "show the world just how many of us there are" for absolutely no reason.

Brother Butch
02-14-2008, 02:58 AM
Vote for Ron Paul.

limequat
02-14-2008, 07:44 AM
That's nice and all, but the fact is if we have the chance of helping Huckabee get a brokered convention, we should take it. By not voting for Huckabee in some states, we may let McCain win them...I would rather a chance at a brokered convention than "show the world just how many of us there are" for absolutely no reason.

Then you have missed the point. You are focusing on an election.
Ron Paul is engineering a revolution.

Bruno
02-14-2008, 08:24 AM
A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Ron Paul.

1836
02-14-2008, 08:34 AM
I tend to agree that Huck votes are Paul votes in some states. Virginia sure would have been nice as a Huck win.

That being said, Huckbee had to consider all of this when thinking about whether or not to stay in. Consider that. He knows there's good reason to stay in because he can still win the nomination in a brokered convention.

Hell, Mitt Romney could still be the nominee, in theory.