Where Have Grassroots Efforts been HARMFUL???

[1836]

This is a question I've been pondering for more than a month now as we've seen Ron Paul fight the good fight and encounter more difficulty than even many of our own pessimists expected.

As someone who has donated a lot, been involved (going to New Hampshire on my own dime to help out HQ before the primary), and as someone who understands politics reasonably well (Republican politics in particular) I think the Grassroots has to think about this. Before you criticize me for not having posted on the forum, I've been out in the field, and I've supported Paul for years. Therefore... What has hurt us? Really, honestly, objectively, what has?

Don't think of it in terms of "We love Ron Paul!" but in terms of the undecided or uninformed voter, or the conservative Republican who would probably support Ron Paul for economics but is turned off by something we've done.

Because Ron Paul himself makes a point of speaking about "blowback" and unintended consequences of foreign policy, let's have a REAL discussion about the "blowback" of our own Grassroots efforts that have gone poorly or turned off more voters than they've won.



If I had to make a list of the things I think that we could have done better or not done at all, it would look something like this:

1. The "R3volution" logo. I like it, personally. And I know most of you like it, too. But face it, folks: it turns off voters, especially older Republicans, who ought to be the people we appeal to with Old-Right calls to cut spending and end departments.

So, I think I personally can surmise that in creating a logo, our revolution failed miserably. Few who are honest with themselves will deny this; many of us have heard negative reactions from all kinds of voters about the logo. Catchy? Sure, but it's a niche. It only works among supporters and the die-hards. It doesn't win votes.

2. The Blimp. I know that there are many here who love or have loved the blimp. Despite my not posting here in the past, I have been a lurker on the forum for some time, infrequently. I can recall reading posts from people who felt that, literally, the blimp was the NUMBER ONE priority for Grassroots efforts. And yet, when we look at it from a standpoint of the average voter, what effect did it have?

Well, it generated free media coverage. That's good, right? But what kind? We have to remember that the blimp was covered in two uninspiring banners: "Ron Paul Revolution" and "Who is Ron Paul? Google Ron Paul." Why not something like "Save Social Security: Vote Ron Paul!"

I wouldn't be wild about it, but do I need to be? Do you? We are reaching out to other voters, not placating our own desires to be important.

Beyond that, the Blimp sucked nearly a half-million dollars from the Grassroots. The Grassroots could have won the state of Alaska for less than that spent on local ads. Hell... If we had spent just a fraction of that in the states we've come very close in: North Dakota, Minnesota, Washington, the outcomes might have been very different.

I'm an economist. We call that opportunity cost - what COULD we have spent it on.


3. Moneybombs.

Now. This is a testy subject, I know. I actually support the moneybombs and donated solidly for the first two. The problem is that our exclusive reliance on them thereafter (MLK day, New Year's Eve, 51st Anniversary) really short-changed the campaign when we could have helped them. If we take just the MLK day and 51st Anniv. moneybombs and move them each back a couple of weeks, the campaign would have had much more money to spend on South Carolina and Nevada, and Super Tuesday. Remember, you have to buy advertising at least two weeks in advance in most cases, perhaps more. We give the campaign money days before Super Tuesday and they can't use it for Super Tuesday.



The last thing I'm going to say is one I want you all to ponder, because I'm guilty of it too. Simply: I think that this grassroots effort has been too quick to jump on this or that idea, just because it came from one of our own. There's nothing wrong with brainstorming.

But. We have to remember that once we get a few people on board to tackle one small project that fails to be anything worthwhile, they just wasted their energy on that... and not on something else useful.

We all have limited resources... money and time. It's how we spend these that define success. Ron Paul's Freedom Revolution has barely begun. We have to rally around each other to come up with significant, big ideas that will transform this movement and the country.

The biggest idea yet? A freedom march on Washington. Let's storm the National Mall with cries of liberty, and they won't ignore us any longer.

Before, however, we must consolidate our efforts. That's what I hope to get us talking about here.

[Ron Paul Fan]

4. Crazy supporters.

Turns people off when you've got people at rallies shouting that 9/11 was an inside job or that the south will rise again. I had people walk out of my meetup meetings because a few idiots wouldn't shutup about the kooky 9/11 truth conspiracy. I wish Paul would have distanced himself from these people much earlier. Should have never went on Alex Jones 400 times and should have given Don Black's donation to charity. Ron Paul's deranged supporters cost him a lot of votes from normal, sane people.

[AlbemarleNC0003]

4. Crazy supporters.

I agree. Not just with the 9/11 people, but with all the "in-your-face" people. Time and time again I hear people say, I wouldn't mind supporting Paul, I like his ideas, I think Ron Paul has honesty and integrity, but I don't want to be associated with those people.

I'm not one of those people. I'm a small business owner who has always voted for the issues rather than the party. I correct people when they make claims that aren't true about Ron Paul and his record.

But I have not and will not be one of those people that stands on a street corner yelling at passersby. In the beginning, it got us some news coverage, but now it seems to have the opposite effect.

Combined with the media blackout, our continuing efforts are being laughed at. I'm in NC and we haven't had our primary yet. I hope I get the chance to vote for Ron Paul.

[1836]

4. Crazy supporters.

Turns people off when you've got people at rallies shouting that 9/11 was an inside job or that the south will rise again. I had people walk out of my meetup meetings because a few idiots wouldn't shutup about the kooky 9/11 truth conspiracy. I wish Paul would have distanced himself from these people much earlier. Should have never went on Alex Jones 400 times and should have given Don Black's donation to charity. Ron Paul's deranged supporters cost him a lot of votes from normal, sane people.

9/11 Truthers definitely hurt.

Alex Jones as well.

[Ginobili]

4. Crazy supporters.

Turns people off when you've got people at rallies shouting that 9/11 was an inside job or that the south will rise again. I had people walk out of my meetup meetings because a few idiots wouldn't shutup about the kooky 9/11 truth conspiracy. I wish Paul would have distanced himself from these people much earlier. Should have never went on Alex Jones 400 times and should have given Don Black's donation to charity. Ron Paul's deranged supporters cost him a lot of votes from normal, sane people.

I'll agree to that, even though I believe some rather fishy things went on in 9/11. If im right, running around trying to preache it down every ones throat like alot of people do... is really not going to help my cause, and I think the sane 9/11 skeptics (prefer not to associate with "Truthers" who try to deal in an absolute "THE GOV'T DID IT") realize this, reason you dont see us quite as much.

That said, Ron Paul him self is a conspiracy theorist. Didn't you know, the North America Trade Union and Trans-Texas Corridor are just a myth? :rolleyes:

[1836]

I'll agree to that, even though I believe some rather fishy things went on in 9/11. If im right, running around trying to preache it down every ones throat like alot of people do... is really not going to help my cause, and I think the sane 9/11 skeptics (prefer not to associate with "Truthers" who try to deal in an absolute "THE GOV'T DID IT") realize this, reason you dont see us quite as much.

That said, Ron Paul him self is a conspiracy theorist. Didn't you know, the North America Trade Union and Trans-Texas Corridor are just a myth? :rolleyes:

Interestingly enough, I had dinner with Alan Keyes last night and he said he believes in the NAU and that the TTC is controlled by a power elite. Just a tangent, but I thought that interesting.

Interesting guy, Alan Keyes.

[ButchHowdy]

The Foregoing posts are what is harmful to this campaign.

People, the enemy has been identified numerous times. Ron Paul himself has said that "We are fighting an establishment that is nearly 100 years old" and even longer in the making in my opinion.

Did y'all think we could simply dismantle "The Beast" in just a few months?

The walls of Jericho didn't just simply fall down when Joshua arrived - they had to circle the city 13 times.

Babylon refused to let God's people go (Jer 50:33)

Pointing fingers at each other is non-productive. Everyone from every background (and ideology) has something to contribute to this campaign.

Yes, we are all frustrated but imagine how Huckabee's folks and all the supporters of the dropout candidates feel today - WE HAVE HOPE, THEY HAVE NONE.

[Ginobili]

Interestingly enough, I had dinner with Alan Keyes last night (post-campaign stop in Central Texas, just for the hell of it) and he said he believes in the NAU and that the TTC is controlled by a power elite. Just a tangent, but I thought that interesting.

Interesting guy, Alan Keyes.

I heard about the TTC about a year ago from two people, one who worked in a locked-off section of the pentagon that had to do with space/areo design, and another person who I wiill not say anything about (For their own saftey, but needless to say, it was higher up), and they both seemed very distrusting of the TTC. So, that has made me question it.

[AlbemarleNC0003]

Pointing fingers at each other is non-productive. Everyone from every background (and ideology) has something to contribute to this campaign.

Yes, we are all frustrated but imagine how Huckabee's folks and all the supporters of the dropout candidates feel today - WE HAVE HOPE, THEY HAVE NONE.

I don't view it as pointing fingers, rather figuring out what works and what doesn't. We can't just stay the course and hope it works out for us in the end.

We do have hope. We also have Ron Paul Republicans to vote for in some states. We know this is a long fight, I just don't want to keep doing the wrong things further alienating us from the mainstream. I want us to become the mainstream.

[1836]

I don't view it as pointing fingers, rather figuring out what works and what doesn't. We can't just stay the course and hope it works out for us in the end.

We do have hope. We also have Ron Paul Republicans to vote for in some states. We know this is a long fight, I just don't want to keep doing the wrong things further alienating us from the mainstream. I want us to become the mainstream.

Precisely. We know that Paul has the "snowball's chance" but it's still a chance.

Yet, the biggest thing we can do for our movement is to consolidate behind big ideas and realize our mistakes. That's how you grow. Besides, we've got a lot of people running for CONGRESS! That's a big deal, folks!

[AlbemarleNC0003]

Precisely. We know that Paul has the "snowball's chance" but it's still a chance.

Ron Paul needs at least 1 state win to keep this thing together after the election. I would be honored for that state to be NC, but I would be thrilled to see Texas go to Paul. We've got a lot of work to do.

[ButchHowdy]

I don't view it as pointing fingers, rather figuring out what works and what doesn't. We can't just stay the course and hope it works out for us in the end.

We do have hope. We also have Ron Paul Republicans to vote for in some states. We know this is a long fight, I just don't want to keep doing the wrong things further alienating us from the mainstream. I want us to become the mainstream.

Then, if you want to CONQUER the enemy, it would behoove you to properly IDENTIFY the enemy.

We the grassroots are simply the gasoline behind this movement.

[BillyDkid]

without bother to read, I have to say the premise of your question is incredibly stupid. Without the grassroots there would have been no campaign.

[AlbemarleNC0003]

Then, if you want to CONQUER the enemy, it would behoove you to properly IDENTIFY the enemy.

We the grassroots are simply the gasoline behind this movement.

We know who the enemy is. They're the ones that claim to be Republicans but do the opposite. We're not dismissing them at all. I have every intention to campaign against my current representatives in NC who fall lock step in line with Bush's policies in the name of "freedom" and "security".

[1836]

without bother to read, I have to say the premise of your question is incredibly stupid. Without the grassroots there would have been no campaign.

Do you want grassroots efforts to be successful or not?

If we don't define what is success and what is failure, we might as well all give up, or keep doing our own little things off in individual spheres of mediocrity.

If we all can't understand what works/doesn't then there will be no Ron Paul Congress in our lifetime. But me, I still want it, so forgive me for trying to see where we are at our best.

[slamhead]

Only 16K people signed up to be precinct captains. I also suspect that of the people who signed up, many did not walk there precincts. That is where the grassroots hurt us.

[ambiguousscion]

Neal Boortz said it best when he noted that 9-11 truthers have taken over the Paul campaign. When I saw an anti-Bush video on RP's main website, I knew the campaign was on the wrong track. This campaign seems to be run like a general election campaign not a primary... a primary is targeting the GOP base, that's why it has failed, it had the broad audience, not the base audience. When you have a bunch of angry independents and dems with a handful of disenchanted GOP members trying to convince the masses of the GOP that he should be the next president... you get what you get.

[1836]

Neal Boortz said it best when he noted that 9-11 truthers have taken over the Paul campaign. When I saw an anti-Bush video on RP's main website, I knew the campaign was on the wrong track. This campaign seems to be run like a general election campaign not a primary... a primary is targeting the GOP base, that's why it has failed, it had the broad audience, not the base audience. When you have a bunch of angry independents and dems with a handful of disenchanted GOP members trying to convince the masses of the GOP that he should be the next president... you get what you get.

QFT!

[AlbemarleNC0003]

Only 16K people signed up to be precinct captains. I also suspect that of the people who signed up, many did not walk there precincts. That is where the grassroots hurt us.

Yep. 125k was the original goal. We couldn't even get 25k to do it. Too much talk, not enough action even when asked by the campaign directly. While we had a lot of interaction with people, we apparently haven't connected with them.

My biggest issue has been trying to convert pro-war people to understand that we can fight terrorism smarter by using letters of Marque and Reprisal. I've managed to convince 1 out of about 20 that this route would be better than clusterbombing entire countries.

Having said that, the grassroots needs to be fighting smarter too. I've got a long way to go to even get my local GOP to answer emails or phone calls from me. They don't want us in their party. I don't want them in mine. I'm younger, and have more stamina. :)

[joemiller]

1. The "R3volution" logo. I like it, personally. And I know most of you like it, too. But face it, folks: it turns off voters, especially older Republicans, who ought to be the people we appeal to with Old-Right calls to cut spending and end departments.

So, I think I personally can surmise that in creating a logo, our revolution failed miserably. Few who are honest with themselves will deny this; many of us have heard negative reactions from all kinds of voters about the logo. Catchy? Sure, but it's a niche. It only works among supporters and the die-hards. It doesn't win votes.

Well, I wasn't going to mention this because I figured..."What the hell?" But now that you have -- technically speaking, we are not engaged in a "revolution", per say, but a retrograde action. We are in fact, like most Republicans, reactionaries.

Consequently, if Dr. Paul's message would have been described as a reactionary force rather than a revolutionary force, Republicans would have understood and received it better.

[1836]

Well, I wasn't going to mention this because I figured..."What the hell?" But now that you have -- technically speaking, we are not engaged in a "revolution", per say, but a retrograde action. We are in fact, like most Republicans, reactionaries.

Consequently, if Dr. Paul's message would have been described as a reactionary force rather than a revolutionary force, Republicans would have understood and received it better.

Indeed. Ron Paul is, after all, a conservative.

[Revolution9]

Do you want grassroots efforts to be successful or not?



They are. IMO the most harm comes to the grassroots from these kinds of posts that seems well meaning but kill enthusiasm. As stated. There would be no campaign without us. The free radicals were the groundswell core on the internet and johnney come laters try to make them conform to some dockers and polo shirt paradigm and claim they hurt the movement by being what they were while the movement grew. I think these well intentioned, but misinformed people, who generally do not live in major urban areas have helped kill the donation cycle as well. They are tolerantly intolerant of those different for them and seem to think marginalising them will make the grassroots grow. I see the opposite effect. In fact at points it has appeared downright hypocrtical to be n a movement for liberty, freedom and rugged individualty and then demand conformity.

best regards
randy

[1836]

..

I want our efforts going FORWARD to be a success. I think we can take the Congress in 10 years' time if we are well enough organized. But if we continue to all do our own thing, we will be destroyed by our own widespread lack of cohesion.

[Revolution9]

Indeed. Ron Paul is, after all, a conservative.

Are you meaning in your rebuttal the modern dictionary definition of conservative..one who belongs to a conservative party, or the old dictionary meaning about conservation of values like truth and family, respect for money and rule of law? because if the older then those seeking truths are the real conservatives while in the modern version conservative parties use this tradition to put a stranglehold on the discussion of ideas. The old conservatives never thought the discussion or search for truth were unworthy and to be hidden under the carpet.

I see Ron standing firm and saying truth to power. I admire that and would not be involved if that component was not there.

best regards
Randy

[speciallyblend]

the republican party is the problem not the grassroots or the message,the root of the problem is the republican party itself

[pacelli]

Hannity.

[Revolution9]

By your implication, I am

1. A rural intolerant hick

2. A "Johnny Come Lately"

3. Misinformed.

I've been a Ron Paul supporter for years and own my own business, started from the ground up, and I've done a great deal for Dr. Paul.

I want our efforts going FORWARD to be a success. I think we can take the Congress in 10 years' time if we are well enough organized. But if we continue to all do our own thing, we will be destroyed by our own widespread lack of cohesion.

Sir. I did not call you those things. However if you wish to have them hung about your neck feel free to indulge to your hearts content. I am complaining and using your post as a soapbox. Frankly a good portion of us are tired of this slant. The grassroots does not need a spanking or a nanny.

Thanks
Randy

[1836]

the republican party is the problem not the grassroots or the message,the root of the problem is the republican party itself

The message obviously has no problem, and the grassroots is not a problem, but the grassroots has had misdirected effort.

The Republican Party is the root of our problem? Then why doesn't Ron Paul, and the rest of us, just go and join some other party? We are Republicans. Like it or not, the Ron Paul message is most at home among the party of Robert Taft and Barry Goldwater.

[1836]

Sir. I did not call you those things. However if you wish to have them hung about your neck feel free to indulge to your hearts content. I am complaining and using your post as a soapbox. Frankly a good portion of us are tired of this slant. The grassroots does not need a spanking or a nanny.

Thanks
Randy

There is no reason why we cannot discuss what we've done wrong. I am no nanny.

[hawks4ronpaul]

Well, I wasn't going to mention this because I figured..."What the hell?" But now that you have -- technically speaking, we are not engaged in a "revolution", per say, but a retrograde action. We are in fact, like most Republicans, reactionaries.

Consequently, if Dr. Paul's message would have been described as a reactionary force rather than a revolutionary force, Republicans would have understood and received it better.

Restoration.

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/

[pcosmar]

Wonderful. Another negative nanny post.
The Grass roots did not hurt anything. The Grass Roots are this campaign.
We are waking up America one person at a time, and are still growing.

Lets take the points.

The "R3volution" logo.
But face it, folks: it turns off voters, especially older Republicans,
Bullshit
My mother is 82, conservative republican, aware, Intelligent. She did not know of Ron Paul till I told her about him, after watching the First debate she was sold.
If someone is turned off by a logo, or other shallow reason, they are neither intelligent nor aware.


The Blimp
Generated attention and made people ask questions.

Why not something like "Save Social Security: Vote Ron Paul!"
Great Idea, Pandering Just promise people stuff. never mind that it can't be done.

. Moneybombs.
Record fund raising. No downside.

I get tired of the negativity and second guessing.
The only reason we are not sweeping the Country is that most Americans are uninformed, Ignorant, and selfish. They will vote for whoever promises the most STUFF. It does not matter that they will not keep that promise, or that they have other motives.
The Voters are stupid.
We need to keep educating them.

[1836]

Get used to the fact that most people are unaware of the facts and that you'll have to present a slick case to get a lot of people to vote for you.

How do you think Romney managed to get all of the votes he ended up with?

[ButchHowdy]

Get used to the fact that most people are unaware of the facts and that you'll have to present a slick case to get a lot of people to vote for you.

How do you think Romney managed to get all of the votes he ended up with?

1.) Romney is part of the 'The Establishment'
2.) 'The Establishment' operates the MSM
3.) The MSM decides agenda/policy for the sheeple.
4.) We are fighting 'The Establishment'

[slacker921]

5. not organizing PACs for local ads. The other candidates benefit from PACs advertising for them.. a few states/cities were able to fund some tv ads and billboards for Ron Paul, but not many.

6. being too transparent. Every plan, every move, etc is public and indexed by google. Our opponents know exactly what we're planning, and can easily infiltrate us and steer us in the wrong direction or post crazy bs to make us look bad.


Another side to #3.. campaign HQ knew weeks in advance that there would be a money bomb before Super Tuesday. They could have lined up advertising and completed the transaction immediately for every X00,000 that rolled in as it came in. Instead.. there's ~6 million sitting in the bank which could have been used for ads in those states you mentioned in #2.

[pcosmar]

How do you think Romney managed to get all of the votes he ended up with?

Lying
Pandering
Buying Votes.

Sorry, Not our style.

[seeker1]

4. Crazy supporters.

Turns people off when you've got people at rallies shouting that 9/11 was an inside job or that the south will rise again. I had people walk out of my meetup meetings because a few idiots wouldn't shutup about the kooky 9/11 truth conspiracy. I wish Paul would have distanced himself from these people much earlier. Should have never went on Alex Jones 400 times and should have given Don Black's donation to charity. Ron Paul's deranged supporters cost him a lot of votes from normal, sane people.

Believing you are right doesn't make you right.

Splitting up the revolutionaries into the camps was a well orchestrated divide and conquer plan to derail the movement.

Any leader should have been able to appeal to both sides for the common good of the movement, but lauding a separatist mentality as having moral superiority is indicative of the national malaise brought on by our two party polarization.

Lack of leadership is the biggest problem, plain and simple.:cool:

[constituent]

Interestingly enough, I had dinner with Alan Keyes last night (post-campaign stop in Central Texas, just for the hell of it) and he said he believes in the NAU and that the TTC is controlled by a power elite.

well, anymore most of the land is controlled by a "power" elite.

i find it hard to shed a tear for their cause.

just the way i see it.

you had dinner w/ Alan Keyes "just for the hell of it"

... well, if i had to speculate what has been harmful, it's
the "had dinner w/ alan keyes... for the hell of it" types.

and all the pro-war, George Bush is Jesus Jr. cheerleader types
who have helped create an environment that is total unfriendly
to the freedom movement, the beast that we must slay.

it is the years of groundwork that have gone in to building
this machine which the present grassroots must struggle against.

it is the elitists who dine w/ Alan Keyes "for the hell of it."

-if point fingers we must (i'd prefer we didn't, but you asked)

[Ron Paul Fan]

Believing you are right doesn't make you right.

Splitting up the revolutionaries into the camps was a well orchestrated divide and conquer plan to derail the movement.

Any leader should have been able to appeal to both sides for the common good of the movement, but lauding a separatist mentality as having moral superiority is indicative of the national malaise brought on by our two party polarization.

Lack of leadership is the biggest problem, plain and simple.:cool:

Leadership is a problem, but that's more so for the campaign than the grassroots. The campaign staff was terrible and that probably trickled down to the grassroots. But when you've got people shouting conspiracies and just shouting at people in general(See Alex Jones), you're going to come off looking delusional. Older people, who make up a big part of the people who vote, don't want to be shouted at regarding 9/11 conspiracies or CFR or the Zionists. Like it or not, it reflects negatively on the campaign and Ron Paul. He had to answer for those crazy thruthers a lot on mainstream media, then came Don Black's donation which they handled horribly. Then came the newsletters and by that time it was a lost cause.

The most harmful people to the campaign were the crazy grassroots supporters who were more interested in pushing their own agendas than Ron Paul's and the amateur campaign staff.

[JoshLowry]

Interestingly enough, I had dinner with Alan Keyes last night (post-campaign stop in Central Texas, just for the hell of it) and he said he believes in the NAU and that the TTC is controlled by a power elite. Just a tangent, but I thought that interesting.

Interesting guy, Alan Keyes.

Off topic, but Alan Keyes is no friend of non-interventionism.

He really pumps up the terrorist boogieman being everywhere.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xIuCjjAdTrE

[RonRules]

Not BUYING enough TV ads.

It's simple: media is a business. Buy their product and they will talk about you. When Romney buys 50 mil worth of advertising, and Ron Paul only 1-2 mil, don't you think Romney and the sales staff have a little side chat about what will be discussed BETWEEN the commercials?

That has been our main problem. People watch TV, particularly older voters that have exceeded 40% turn out in several states (FL, NV for example)

[Revolution9]

There is no reason why we cannot discuss what we've done wrong. I am no nanny.

Hope not.. It wouldn't look good on a Texas male to have that mindset be on display:D

Best
Randy

[liberteebell]

The Foregoing posts are what is harmful to this campaign.

People, the enemy has been identified numerous times. Ron Paul himself has said that "We are fighting an establishment that is nearly 100 years old" and even longer in the making in my opinion.

Did y'all think we could simply dismantle "The Beast" in just a few months?

The walls of Jericho didn't just simply fall down when Joshua arrived - they had to circle the city 13 times.

Babylon refused to let God's people go (Jer 50:33)

Pointing fingers at each other is non-productive. Everyone from every background (and ideology) has something to contribute to this campaign.

Yes, we are all frustrated but imagine how Huckabee's folks and all the supporters of the dropout candidates feel today - WE HAVE HOPE, THEY HAVE NONE.

QFT!

I'm NOT saying we did anything wrong, nor am I trying to be negative. Much can be learned from failures. I'm just looking at this from hindsight and frankly, through tears after my home state of Virginia's abysmal performance yesterday. These are lessons I learned from my personal experience. Things that I was "guilty" of.

1. Thinking that a self-organizing system, devoid of some sort of organization, plans and yes, leadership was going to win elections. Like it or not (and I don't), we could have done a much better job of developing a plan for success and systematically carrying it out.

2. Being politically naive and being novices to the political system. Not knowing The System, how to win elections and how to properly work it and having few people inside the grassroots who could effectively educate and organize us and channel all the grassroots energy into winning the primaries. Things like effective canvassing, especially for super voters and turning them out on election day and effectively targeting and appealing to the conservative base. We should learn from this and carry this knowledge forth to elect future Liberty candidates. We spent too much time voting in on-line polls and not enough time earning real votes.

3. If there is such a thing: being so well informed, we were not able or effective in dumbing down our message enough to appeal to the general public. Have you ever met a Ron Paul supporter who isn't a walking encyclopedia on the Constitution, government corruption and abuses, in depth knowledge of things like the Federal Reserve, Austrian economics, etc, ad infinitum? Didn't think so. The American public wants sound bites and glitz. We offered none of the above. We all know that the American public has been effectively brainwashed. They are stuck in a false left/right paradigm, afraid of a couple of guys in a cave in Pakistan and think there "outta be a law" for just about everything. Thus, our appeal for following the Rule of law came off as being fringe kookdom. People need to be spoon fed this new information; it is a completely foreign way of thinking for most. They need to think that they arrived at this on their own; they need to be given just enough to make them want to research more; get a chink in their armor, if you will; rather than trying to bash them over the head with the whole thing at one time. We need to find things that work and share successes with others. We often need to listen more and talk less.

4. Allowing the msm to "define" us and thus, control our public perception. We spent too much valuable time trying to make the national media notice us when we should have become the media on a local level. We should have appointed press secretaries in our localities and effectively used the local press to get the media we desired, needed and quite frankly, deserved. We are informed, articulate and passionate and we could have done one hell of a job on a local level. From this day forward, we should all Become the Media. Locally.


That being said, we've had tons of successes. It made my day yesterday when one of my co-workers, a hard-core democrat, called me to tell me that he'd voted for Ron Paul because it was "a vote for America and the Constitution". We've awakened a whole bunch of people, who will, in turn, awaken other people. I've never met anyone who isn't hungry for Freedom; it's just that some of them don't know it yet. Our numbers are growing and we should be very proud of what we've done so far, improve on that and carry forward. We have a long way to go and a lot of work still ahead!

[MsDoodahs]

I see nothing wrong at this point with looking to see where grassroots hurt and where grassroots helped.

I agree with the thread starter's observations 1 - 3.

I'd add that a big problem for grassroots IMO has been the lack of solid knowledge among the grassroots.

[seeker1]

I'd add that a big problem for grassroots IMO has been the lack of solid knowledge among the grassroots.

What is the solid knowledge? And where would they get it? :cool:

I used to drive through Chappell Hill on my way back to Austin from My mom's house on the beach. :cool:

[MsDoodahs]

What is the solid knowledge? And where would they get it? :cool:

I used to drive through Chappell Hill on my way back to Austin from My mom's house on the beach. :cool:

There was talk a time or two about possibly raising funds to hire a professional political consultant for the grassroots, to help us with all the various things that we newbies don't understand.

I thought when it was suggested that it was a great idea, as it would have provided knowledge, direction, and focus - something we sorely lack.

Never happened.

Looking back, I think we should have done it.

eta: it's almost bluebonnet time! This area is breathtaking when the pastures are ablaze with wildflowers.

[joemiller]

Are you meaning in your rebuttal the modern dictionary definition of conservative..one who belongs to a conservative party, or the old dictionary meaning about conservation of values like truth and family, respect for money and rule of law?

I think he means, Ron Paul, the reactionary.

But let me just quickly add here before I had to leave that another very important function that will be addressed at the RNC convention is the adoption of the rules governing the next election. I hope some of you old-timers will get together as a group and write down the policies and procedures needed to help other fellow reactionaries prevail in the 2012 election.

[affa]

Wow.

Some of you guys have managed to list every single thing that made us as successful as we were as... problems. Good job, guys!

[seeker1]

There was talk a time or two about possibly raising funds to hire a professional political consultant for the grassroots, to help us with all the various things that we newbies don't understand.

I thought when it was suggested that it was a great idea, as it would have provided knowledge, direction, and focus - something we sorely lack.

Never happened.

Looking back, I think we should have done it.

eta: it's almost bluebonnet time! This area is breathtaking when the pastures are ablaze with wildflowers.

The lack of grassroots organization at the national level was indeed a major misstep.


I cut my photography teeth on Texas wildflower pictures. I carried bluebonnet seeds with me for years after I moved from TX.

[enjerth]

I think that the only problem with the money bombs was the fact that people kept hanging on to them.

At first, donations were slow and they weren't adding up to much. The money bomb did not replace something that was working, it energized people who were thinking about giving to become a part of something record-breaking. It was exciting, and it likely got many people to donate a significant amount more than they would have otherwise.

What we would have benefited from most would be to take the money bomb idea after the first one and make it a weekly event. People love to be a part of a great measurable success.

[Stefan]

I remember my first encounters with Ron Paul and the grassroot support.

The thing that got me interested was that I heard that there would be a libertarian running for president, so I googled him, Ron Paul. I liked his positions on freedom and taxes and I liked that his great integrity and consistensy. At the time I was somewhat pro war, mainly because I really hated those really annoying left wing Bush bashers who are against it, but I could cope with supporting Ron Paul anyways. Mainly because of the way he argued against it (the war is too expensive).

Some weeks later I saw a bunch of really loud people marching around, shouting things and waving signs that said "REVOLUTION" with big red capital letters. I remember looking at them thinking "I really hate those communists". Later, I understood that those were grassroot supporters of Ron Paul, but at the time it was a major turn off. I can imagine that more people think the same thing when they see loud people marching around. And if I would have seen them before I looked into Ron Paul, I would probably not have gotten involved..

On the other hand: the grassroots would never have attracted so many people if it wasn't loud, odd and annoying. Sure, grassroot support of this size and entusiasm consisting of only sane, bright and articulate people would have been great, but I don't think it would have been impossible. Ron Paul has gone a far way from the 1-2% he used to be polling.

[Highland]

Personally, I think the solution to the grassroots problem of organization is the key to our ability to help get Dr. Paul elected. I think we should have a website organized by "strengths"...like for us, our strength is media...so there would be a media pod where people could get free ron paul ads to run locally...print, TV and radio. There could be a pod for people who specialize in canvasing, one for signs and supplies, one for letters to the editors..and on and on. Also we need to be able to list the barriers we have to campaigning locally and nationally for Dr. Paul. Currently we only have these threads, which are great, but not conducive to collective work on the election. Our organization needs to be targeted not only for those who are working locally or statewide, but many of us can help those all over the US, like in our case with free RP ads for download. The framework needs to allow fluid passage to the local and national efforts. I think this would work because it would be self regulating and no one would have to run it...it is sort of like a forum but consisting of pods and solutions.

For the free ads to run on your local TV and Radio stations go to...

http://www.highlandmediaworks.com/ronpaulad2
http://www.highlandmediaworks.com/ronpaulad

[Bern]

The grassroots raised the campaign from obscurity to having a voice. It also limited the ceiling on how much mainstream GOP voters would support RP.

The grassroots did and is still doing some amazing work. But the fringes (truthers, supremacists/separatists/whatever, etc.) did have a powerful negative influence on the GOP voters that I have talked to.

It's one thing to grab the spotlight (good job), it's another to use it well when the light is shining on you (not so good).

[Dave Pedersen]

Calling truthers "crazy" and rejecting them (us) has done great harm. Without full knowledge about 9/11 we cannot stop this "war on terrorism" which is doing such violence to our constitution. Those who renounce 9/11 truth (including our illustrious leader) have really shot this revolution to restore our Republic in the foot.

[Ron Paul Fan]

Wrong. Not rejecting them did the Paul campaign great harm. Everyone thinks these people are crazy. Associate with crazies, you'll be labled as crazy. This happened to Paul and they described him in the media as such. You truthers and white supremacists cost Ron Paul the Presidency. I hope you're happy with yourselves.

[Highland]

They are not calling truthers crazy any more than truthers call others sheep! This thread is to be able to analyze our progress and define solutions further....please do not take offense, but use it as a catalyst to improve our movement...we desperately need to get Dr. Paul elected and that means taking responsibility and trying to correct things that are less effective...We all recognize each other are very important. We need Solidarity right now even though we may differ in opinions.

Thanks

[DeanToPaulIn4Years]

Unkempt supporters canvassing and holding signs. The truthers wouldn't have mattered if the majority of supporters looked more mainstream (and cursed less often, of course).

Just because it's insulting doesn't mean it's not true.

[Highland]

We should not call names...please...Dr. Paul would not like it fellows..ok??!!

[Highland]

This thread should be SOLUTION ORIENTED!

[Ex Post Facto]

I hate to tell you: 9/11 skeptics make up probably 50% or more of those that support Ron Paul. Some just don't say much on the subject. There is no denying that the government is withholding video tapes of the pentagon incident. If raising that issue, makes me a truther, I think you've been brainwashed to accept whats presented to you by authority.

[ButchHowdy]

I hate to tell you: 9/11 skeptics make up probably 50% or more of those that support Ron Paul. Some just don't say much on the subject. There is no denying that the government is withholding video tapes of the pentagon incident. If raising that issue, makes me a truther, I think you've been brainwashed to accept whats presented to you by authority.

85 Friggin Cameras

[ronpaulhawaii]

There is no reason why we cannot discuss what we've done wrong...

+1


...

If someone is turned off by a logo, or other shallow reason, they are neither intelligent nor aware.

...
The only reason we are not sweeping the Country is that most Americans are uninformed, Ignorant, and selfish...The Voters are stupid.


Am I reading this right?

[seeker1]

You guys crack me up.

We should all look like republicrats if we want to win republicrats. LOL:D

I can't believe you guys. I can't stop laughing.

Truthers are not welcome here, that probably is the reason there are only 625Currently Active Users. (279 members and 346 guests)

I guess the proof of the pudding IS in the eating.

Maybe you can alienate more people and you can get down under 500? :rolleyes:

[JS4Pat]

1. The "R3volution" logo.

2. The Blimp.

3. Moneybombs.

4. Crazy Supporters

5. 9/11 Truthers

I don't really see any of these as "net" negatives. All of the things mentioned as possible shortcomings created energy and enthusiasm. This is who & what we are. It's what makes this movement so unique. I'm not a "9/11 Truther - but I'm glad they are part of this movement. For every little thing that pushes one person away - it more than likely attracts another. I know that this whole movement has personally made me a more tolerant person. (And I am very thankful for that)

Aside from the unfair treatment by the media and the establishment - I think the biggest problem was the lack of good sound leadership at the top with the ability to capitalize on the Grassroots. An enormous job - but there are certainly people out there that could do it.

[BarryDonegan]

9/11 Truthers definitely hurt.

Alex Jones as well.

how do you explain then other republicans who get elected despite the endorsement of Ann Coulter or Bill O'Reilly?

[jrich4rpaul]

I don't know who rated this thread so low.

These are issues that need to be addessed, or else we havn't learned a thing and 2012 won't be looking too good for us either.

[virgil47]

There only three things we should be doing. These are learn, adapt and move forward. Everything else is B.S. and counterproductive. There appears to be alot of whiney, young, me first types in the RP grassroots movement. They are not able to man up when they screw up. All they want to screech is "this negative stuff is hurting not helping". EXCUSE ME but if the slow joes in the grassroots movement refuse to learn from their obvious errors then the more erudite among us will hold their hands and try to explain what politics is all about. I've come to believe that the vast majority of loose cannons in the grassroots are really hoping for an armed revolution. With only 10% of the population at the very most supporting them it would be a very short and bloody conflict. Be very, very careful what you ask for as it just may come about.

[jcims]

This thread should be SOLUTION ORIENTED!

QFT! (had to use it some time or another)

I see two problems that need solutions.

1 - Developing an identity around the grassroots that will survive the general election no matter the outcome.

2 - Increasing the net positive impact of the grassroots in all areas.

Failures, if addressed correctly, are simply stepping stones to success. We've all heard some variation of that in our lifetimes, primarily because it is true. This thread is on page 6 without any particular progress towards the solutions that the quoted poster was asking for, so maybe the first step is to identify ways to engage the grassroots in acknowledging and analyzing areas where we have fallen short of our goals as a direct result of our own actions or inactions.

[Primbs]

This is a question I've been pondering for more than a month now as we've seen Ron Paul fight the good fight and encounter more difficulty than even many of our own pessimists expected.

As someone who has donated a lot, been involved (going to New Hampshire on my own dime to help out HQ before the primary), and as someone who understands politics reasonably well (Republican politics in particular) I think the Grassroots has to think about this. Before you criticize me for not having posted on the forum, I've been out in the field, and I've supported Paul for years. Therefore... What has hurt us? Really, honestly, objectively, what has?

Don't think of it in terms of "We love Ron Paul!" but in terms of the undecided or uninformed voter, or the conservative Republican who would probably support Ron Paul for economics but is turned off by something we've done.

Because Ron Paul himself makes a point of speaking about "blowback" and unintended consequences of foreign policy, let's have a REAL discussion about the "blowback" of our own Grassroots efforts that have gone poorly or turned off more voters than they've won.



If I had to make a list of the things I think that we could have done better or not done at all, it would look something like this:

1. The "R3volution" logo. I like it, personally. And I know most of you like it, too. But face it, folks: it turns off voters, especially older Republicans, who ought to be the people we appeal to with Old-Right calls to cut spending and end departments.

So, I think I personally can surmise that in creating a logo, our revolution failed miserably. Few who are honest with themselves will deny this; many of us have heard negative reactions from all kinds of voters about the logo. Catchy? Sure, but it's a niche. It only works among supporters and the die-hards. It doesn't win votes.

2. The Blimp. I know that there are many here who love or have loved the blimp. Despite my not posting here in the past, I have been a lurker on the forum for some time, infrequently. I can recall reading posts from people who felt that, literally, the blimp was the NUMBER ONE priority for Grassroots efforts. And yet, when we look at it from a standpoint of the average voter, what effect did it have?

Well, it generated free media coverage. That's good, right? But what kind? We have to remember that the blimp was covered in two uninspiring banners: "Ron Paul Revolution" and "Who is Ron Paul? Google Ron Paul." Why not something like "Save Social Security: Vote Ron Paul!"

I wouldn't be wild about it, but do I need to be? Do you? We are reaching out to other voters, not placating our own desires to be important.

Beyond that, the Blimp sucked nearly a half-million dollars from the Grassroots. The Grassroots could have won the state of Alaska for less than that spent on local ads. Hell... If we had spent just a fraction of that in the states we've come very close in: North Dakota, Minnesota, Washington, the outcomes might have been very different.

I'm an economist. We call that opportunity cost - what COULD we have spent it on.


3. Moneybombs.

Now. This is a testy subject, I know. I actually support the moneybombs and donated solidly for the first two. The problem is that our exclusive reliance on them thereafter (MLK day, New Year's Eve, 51st Anniversary) really short-changed the campaign when we could have helped them. If we take just the MLK day and 51st Anniv. moneybombs and move them each back a couple of weeks, the campaign would have had much more money to spend on South Carolina and Nevada, and Super Tuesday. Remember, you have to buy advertising at least two weeks in advance in most cases, perhaps more. We give the campaign money days before Super Tuesday and they can't use it for Super Tuesday.



The last thing I'm going to say is one I want you all to ponder, because I'm guilty of it too. Simply: I think that this grassroots effort has been too quick to jump on this or that idea, just because it came from one of our own. There's nothing wrong with brainstorming.

But. We have to remember that once we get a few people on board to tackle one small project that fails to be anything worthwhile, they just wasted their energy on that... and not on something else useful.

We all have limited resources... money and time. It's how we spend these that define success. Ron Paul's Freedom Revolution has barely begun. We have to rally around each other to come up with significant, big ideas that will transform this movement and the country.

The biggest idea yet? A freedom march on Washington. Let's storm the National Mall with cries of liberty, and they won't ignore us any longer.

Before, however, we must consolidate our efforts. That's what I hope to get us talking about here.

God Bless,

-Jess.

I have to disagree with all of these. Without these events, we would have a been a campaign just like Tancredo and Hunter. An unknown Congressman from Texas who had little impact. Because of the grassroots, money bombs, the Blimp the campaign made history.

Many professional political watchers marveled at Ron Paul's grassroots efforts. They liked the blimp because it was creative in an otherwise boring nomination process.

Ron Paul will have probably raised 40 million by the time it is all said and done. What do we remember, the tens of millions spend on radio ads or TV ads or a simple 400 thousand dollar blimp.

[MsDoodahs]

I don't know who rated this thread so low.

These are issues that need to be addessed, or else we havn't learned a thing and 2012 won't be looking too good for us either.

Exactly.

[hawks4ronpaul]

Pushing pet issues (hijacking RP's candidacy) instead of pushing RP's 2008 presidential platform (maybe he crafted his platform carefully).
Arguing that voters have to agree with "our" issues instead of showing how RP agrees with the voters' values/issues.
Saying that "we" are going to take over the GOP and impose "our" issues (which is a neocon attitude that will generate a pitchfork mob blowback against RP and turn RP's project into an Iraq-like failure) instead of showing rank-and-file GOP how RP agrees with their issues/values (Constitution, strong national security, et.).

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/

[eirrack77]

I’m amazed by all the talents that the Ron Paul supports have! All the videos, web pages, money bombs, blimp, bumper stickers, t-shirts, stamps, debate game etc… But I spent more time wasted look for how I could help!

I have been asking myself how it could be better.
********Organization********Structure ********Guidance*********
Ron Paul is who people need to hear from.

His website is great. I love too see all the money roll in and X-out the other candidates.
Here is what I think is needed.
***An official grassroots home page***
That is easy to find or comes up on first page. It should have what is needed to be done by the grassroots supporters. This info should come from Ron Paul’s campaign directly. At this point you can chouse to participate or not in that goal or task. It also should have many links to all the great talent within grassroots. We all have great ideas so that is what the forums are for, to put new ideas up for review by the official grassroots managers to put into action. The forums are all so for us to chat and compare notes. You should not let you’re feelings get hurt if some disagrees with your ideas.
This forum has been the best place for info but it is hodgepodged information. (What day is the march???) It should be or not be and on “An official grassroots home page” with a date. If all goal and task are set by the official grassroots managers, we would have less confusion and less time wasted look to see how to help. If I spent half of the time I wasted look for what is an official task I personally could have found more supporters. I sorry to say but we all muddy up the great ideas and there is no structure or guidance to the grassroots.

[CGMike]

Pushing pet issues (hijacking RP's candidacy) instead of pushing RP's 2008 presidential platform (maybe he crafted his platform carefully).
Arguing that voters have to agree with "our" issues instead of showing how RP agrees with the voters' values/issues.
Saying that "we" are going to take over the GOP and impose "our" issues (which is a neocon attitude that will generate a pitchfork mob blowback against RP and turn RP's project into an Iraq-like failure) instead of showing rank-and-file GOP how RP agrees with their issues/values (Constitution, strong national security, et.).

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/

I agree as well.... especially with the whole GOP takeover. Takeover is good, but barging into the establsimnet GOP and saying "you all are sheeple, its time for a revolution, leave now" isn't the way to go. Change begins from within, and we need the GOP party almost as much as they need us :) There are tactful ways of going about making change in the GOP, the first is by participating at the local level. I see all of these people making runs at the national level and that's great! But, it helps to make inroads at the local level too. My City's Local GOP has been resistant of us, and mostly because they think we're a flash in the pan (and we have our usual obnoxious supporters who hurt as well). We know we're not, but convincing these people will take some time and effort....They can be molded over time, i can see already. So get involved, stay involved and remember that ALL politics are LOCAL, whether at the City, County, State or National level.

[damoncrowe]

I just got asked by our regional coordinator to donate to Ron Paul Racing. I am sorry, but I
cannot fathom this benefitting Ron Paul or the liberty message. Sure NASCAR is big, but
come on. To me this is the kind of thing that, although "puts his name out there," detracts from the seriousness of Ron Paul and the message. People will laugh about this. Especially when the car consistently finishes poorly. This IMO is a bad image despite all of the good grassroots has accomplished.

[rpfreedom08]

lol the main stream media got a hold of so many of you it's ridiculous. First off there are passionate people all over the place on both obama's side and ron paul's side however most of the stuff they put in the MSM about Ron Paul supporters is either a lie or just erroneous. I don't doubt that the media knew they couldn't attack RP for much because his record and life are impeccable however they knew they could attack his supporters. Shame on you guys for being so damn gullible, buying in to the same media outlets that you guys so often condemn.

[1836]

I don't know who rated this thread so low.

These are issues that need to be addessed, or else we havn't learned a thing and 2012 won't be looking too good for us either.

Yes.

If we don't understand our flaws, in the sense that we don't see everything that may turn off potential voters, then we have learned truly nothing.

How many of you think that Ron Paul, given all of the money he has and a more confident campaign, COULDN'T have gotten 10% of the Republican base behind him? There are at least that many self-described libertarians in the Republican Party.

The grassroots, sure, made it easier to get there. But we also hurt ourselves without knowing it.

The 9/11 Truther bit is a key example. I saw in this thread that a few people said "Well, the 9/11 Truthers gave the Ron Paul Revolution energy."

Perhaps... but think of what else they did. The 9/11 Truthers, by being so open about that particular aspect of themselves, brought upon Ron Paul perhaps hundreds of questions in many interviews on television, the radio, and in print media about "9/11 truth" and whether or not he believed in it.

Even though he said no, if you are an older undecided voter who sees someone even being asked such an obtuse question, is that not going to change your opinion of him?

The addressing of these sorts of things within the grassroots will make or break this movement. You learn from your mistakes, or you don't, and you fail.

We must succeed... and know how to.

[hawks4ronpaul]

Overall bad=Google Ron Paul, Who is Ron Paul, Ron Paul Revolution

Those were good for an initial gimmick but ultimately not the most effective if we can judge by the number of people who still know little or nothing about him.

You can get 50 million people to see "Who is Ron Paul?" and a month later have all 50 million still know nothing about him.

Marketing is about grabbing an eyeball for a moment and giving the message then-and-there because it might be your only chance.

"Google Ron Paul" is getting your chance to give the message but your message is, "Hey pay attention to me, OK, here's the thing, I'll tell you later, if you can find me."

It expects the customer to do the legwork, instead of making the message unavoidable.

Imagine if you could get 50 million people to see "Ron Paul--Abolish the IRS and replace it with nothing."

They got a memorable message whether they wanted it or not and whether they took any further action or not.

Not only does "Abolish the IRS" give an issue message, the issue might incite far more talking and googling than "Google Ron Paul."

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/

[Xenophage]

I actually think all the sign-waving and canvassing hurt us by increasing turn-out and interest in the primaries, while simultaneously irritating some non-supporters and getting them to turn out the vote for their own guys.

[1836]

You can get 50 million people to see "Who is Ron Paul?" and a month later have all 50 million still know nothing about him.

Wow, that's a succinct and true representation of the sort of thing that we've just plain screwed up on.

Wonderfully put!