McCain loses, RP wins but its a bitter pill needed [Mod: Is contrary to RP PCC dir]

[xcharliex]

Here is my mug's view concerning the tactic to vote for Huckabee being discussed in the winner take all state of Virginia. I am puting it here because I have just read the DC is also a winner take all. I personally think if McCain loses VA and let's say DC as well he is finished and then RP becomes a huge player whatever the final wash for president. But only Huckabee can make this happen, so its pride versus tactics and end result...take your pick.

Originally Posted by amistybleu
Maybe you people with this scheme should run it by the campaign.

The campaign could never endorse this, even if it is the best strategy. My opinion for what it is worth is that through these forums the strategy can be encouraged as sound but optional.

Option A is for those who believe the best chance for Ron Paul, president, a greater impact or even some power with his delagates over a undecided nomination and that makes it a must to try and stop McCain winning any states where he will win ALL the delegates, including helping Huckabee win, but in states that it is proportional we go hell for leather.

Option B is for those who equally understandably either believe principle is better than strategy and want to vote for RP regardless of the stragetic consequences OR those who have given up on RP having any chance of president or any impact (i.e. perhaps believing the media that McCain has this wrapped up).

Personally I would much rather McCain not win by 1-3% and instead live with 1-3% less in Virginia for RP. Meanwhile in Maryland where it is proportional apparently post what we can.

In Washington State the Campaign basically did just such a strategic move, one far less important than stopping McCain getting every single delegate in Virgina, when they suggested that RP voters mark undecided (in the interests of gaining more delegates rather than a win in the straw poll with no delegates involved...check the Winning Washington Forum). If even half the undecideds were Ron Paul supporters doing what the Campain asked, which wouldnt be surprising these votes could have put RP in the winners circle. Two for MH and one for RP would have been very nice headlines and a real dampener for McCain's momentum, but Campaign is trying to win delegates and just like the Huckabee campaign, praying McCain does get the delegates to lock this up.

Now being an Aussie I am able to bet on these things and I had RP at 50-1 to win Washington so when I heard about these tactics I went damn, but I understand them and and am not bitter. I just wish Huckabee had of been ahead and not that it meant they could 'claim' a win for McCain.

In war against a bigger opponent it is smart to make any other enemy with mutual interest your friend, and right now we need to be Sun Tzu in our approach to have any chance against McCain and the GOP power elite who have now prematurely annointed him.

McCain is weak, in South Carolina this year for his great trumpeted "triumph" he got like 10% less votes than the "failure" against Bush. RP was always a long shot but we have a great opportunity against a weak opponent, but it is Huckabee who is the key right now. The US didn't like Stalin, but as soon as they became the Hitler's eneny they became our friend and it was the Eastern Front that turned the war and without US help the Eastern front would have fallen. Mike Huckabee might not be everyone's cup of tea, but he is a lot better than Stalin.

I personally feel if McCain loses Virginia he is finished.

Cheers!

[Moderator Note: Please see the 2/11 directive from the campaign called, "If You’re for Ron Paul, Vote for Ron Paul", here: http://people.ronpaul2008.com/campaign-updates/2008/02/11/if-youre-for-ron-paul-vote-for-ron-paul/ ]

[nate895]

I don't think he's finished, but it would go to a brokered convention where he would most likely lose because we've infiltrated the delegates.

[l1b3rtyn0w]

VOTE PAUL ONLY

Every vote is crucial. Convoluted strategies are a waste of time.

[Xenophage]

Go away Huckabee fans.

I'd rather see Paul with the HIGHEST POSSIBLE NUMBERS.

[klamath]

Vote for Ron Paul! This is getting ridiculous. Sure you want your man huckabee to win but find someplace to find supporters for your man. If this was serious about a brokered convention stategy Huckabee supporters would have backed RP in Washington. If all RP supporters go and vote for Huckabee, Huckabee will win out right and he will laugh his bloody head off at how stupid RP supporters were.

[hueylong]

No way.

[xcharliex]

"Go away Huckabee fans."

"Sure you want your man huckabee to win but find someplace to find supporters for your man."

I, or none of the people suggesting this sound tactical strategy that I have noticed, have ranted against those that disagree or want to put passion and principle ahead of tactics, so please (those few ranters) return the same courtesy and if you want to argue study the argument carefully and argue against it logically. How do I know you are not McCain supporters claiming to vote for and rah rahing RP.

Jump ahead and tell me if McCain gets stopped by 1% and gets ZERO delegates in both states that you will be angry with any RP supporters who tactically voted for Huckabee.

We all love RP dearly and would like him to be winning these states but in these primaries, because the media has been so unfair, he has no chance, so helping have a nicer 3rd place is, tactically speaking in the big picture, a wank that will be noticed by no-one.

No these supporters who you are blasting from your pedestal will have swallowed their pride and a bitter pill to help get a result whereby RP is live and kicking over the next few months, and his delegate influence can't be ignored in the media in a hung result. I believe the RP supporters in Washington State (who have like you guys have done a great job on the ground) who say they will win the delegates and we have a chance in the primary, this will all mean zero if MCCain grabs the lot in VA abd DC and a majority in Maryland. But it will be huge if he hasn't AND the campaign's directed tactic of hiding delegate preferences that prevented a "RON PAUL WINS FIRST STATE" headline, to be a total failure. As some think now anyway, it would have been better to have had the headline, as we haven't had one the whole long road so far.

No this is not about Huckabee, as it wasn't about Stalin when we sided as we needed to tactically with him to stop Hitler, and if he had won the Easter front as he would have withour American aid to Stalin I might be typing this in German. No it is about wanting RP to stay live in this race and tactics that match that thinking. Beg to differ if you like and vote as you like, but no need to get on a high horse and rant. And even worse without making any argument against why it doesn't make good tactical sense in RP's benefit to become the nominee or be alive with a message that will be audible over the next few months, don't accuse me of being a Huckabee plant.

[JulioForPaul]

It would actually make more sense for the McCain people to come here and make sure we don't collaborate with Huckabee to defeat them. Ban all people who say "Vote for Paul" please.:)

[xcharliex]

Here's how I can see a light at the end of this tunnel. McCain flops with zero delagtes from VA (and hopefully as a bonus D.C. as well) and MH wins Texas and whatever else needed to bury McCain as the annointed one. X% of the GOP can't stand McCain, X% can't stand Huckabee and Romney comes back into the picture (people keep forgetting he has only suspended the campaign). Meanwhile polls show Obama pasting all three of them, but meanwhile RP over the next 3 months, finally getting some coverage and with a message as refreshing as Obama's but with way more substance, starts to be looked at and IF, as it maight happen, he is polling better in a RP-BO match up then the otehr candidates who knows? Sure this is a longshot but if McCain loses VA today, its not as long as the odds of 400-1 oI will get as soon as I hear this result on our dear Ron just to be the Republican candidate (see below), let alone the 600-1 to be the next president.

http://www.oddschecker.com/specials/politics-and-election/us-presidential-election/republican-candidate

[CountryboyRonPaul]

I am not clear on DC's rules, but I would say that this strategy is sound (I criticized it when I first saw it) as long as DC is a winner take all primary.

Now, that being said, I have seen these posts in Caucus state forums where this would be a terrible strategy. Also in a state like LA where our primary only resulted in delegates if one candidate got over 50 % this strategy would have been terrible.

Use your head, if voting for Huck would help keep McCain out of the race in your state, but not hurt Paul's delegate count, I say go for it. Basically the only states I see this working to our advantage in are winner take all primaries.

Face it, we really don't do well in most Primary States, and you should have some idea of whether or not your state will have strong support for Paul, as was the case in AK.

Basically it's a personal decision, if you think Paul has a shot at winning a winner take all primary vote for him, but if you don't think he does not and want to secure a brokered convention vote for Huck.

Do the means justify the results? That's up for you to decide, I know I can barely even fathom pushing the button next to Huckabee's name. But, I also know all the candidates sacrificed in Louisiana to keep Paul from gaining any momentum, so it's obvious our enemies are willing to cheat to keep us from winning.

[JulioForPaul]

I am not clear on DC's rules, but I would say that this strategy is sound (I criticized it when I first saw it) as long as DC is a winner take all primary.

Now, that being said, I have seen these posts in Caucus state forums where this would be a terrible strategy. Also in a state like LA where our primary only resulted in delegates if one candidate got over 50 % this strategy would have been terrible.

Use your head, if voting for Huck would help keep McCain out of the race in your state, but not hurt Paul's delegate count, I say go for it. Basically the only states I see this working to our advantage in are winner take all primaries.

Face it, we really don't do well in most Primary States, and you should have some idea of whether or not your state will have strong support for Paul, as was the case in AK.

Basically it's a personal decision, if you think Paul has a shot at winning a winner take all primary vote for him, but if you don't think he does not and want to secure a brokered convention vote for Huck.

Do the means justify the results? That's up for you to decide, I know I can barely even fathom pushing the button next to Huckabee's name. But, I also know all the candidates sacrificed in Louisiana to keep Paul from gaining any momentum, so it's obvious our enemies are willing to cheat to keep us from winning.

Well said.

[jasonuher]

I'm sick and tired of reading these worthless posts, so my less than couth reply:

[Redacted by Moderator]

Vote for Ron if you support him. End. of. story.

[LibertyEagle]

http://people.ronpaul2008.com/campaign-updates/2008/02/11/if-youre-for-ron-paul-vote-for-ron-paul/

[Dr.3D]

Sheesh... you vote for the person you want to win!
How hard is it to figure out?
These are the Ron Paul forums and thus everybody should be voting for Ron Paul.

[klamath]

"Go away Huckabee fans."

"Sure you want your man huckabee to win but find someplace to find supporters for your man."

I, or none of the people suggesting this sound tactical strategy that I have noticed, have ranted against those that disagree or want to put passion and principle ahead of tactics, so please (those few ranters) return the same courtesy and if you want to argue study the argument carefully and argue against it logically. How do I know you are not McCain supporters claiming to vote for and rah rahing RP.

Jump ahead and tell me if McCain gets stopped by 1% and gets ZERO delegates in both states that you will be angry with any RP supporters who tactically voted for Huckabee.

We all love RP dearly and would like him to be winning these states but in these primaries, because the media has been so unfair, he has no chance, so helping have a nicer 3rd place is, tactically speaking in the big picture, a wank that will be noticed by no-one.

No these supporters who you are blasting from your pedestal will have swallowed their pride and a bitter pill to help get a result whereby RP is live and kicking over the next few months, and his delegate influence can't be ignored in the media in a hung result. I believe the RP supporters in Washington State (who have like you guys have done a great job on the ground) who say they will win the delegates and we have a chance in the primary, this will all mean zero if MCCain grabs the lot in VA abd DC and a majority in Maryland. But it will be huge if he hasn't AND the campaign's directed tactic of hiding delegate preferences that prevented a "RON PAUL WINS FIRST STATE" headline, to be a total failure. As some think now anyway, it would have been better to have had the headline, as we haven't had one the whole long road so far.

No this is not about Huckabee, as it wasn't about Stalin when we sided as we needed to tactically with him to stop Hitler, and if he had won the Easter front as he would have withour American aid to Stalin I might be typing this in German. No it is about wanting RP to stay live in this race and tactics that match that thinking. Beg to differ if you like and vote as you like, but no need to get on a high horse and rant. And even worse without making any argument against why it doesn't make good tactical sense in RP's benefit to become the nominee or be alive with a message that will be audible over the next few months, don't accuse me of being a Huckabee plant.

I see what you are trying to say but I think it is a horribly flawed stategy. If huckabee wins there is no chance of huckabee's delegates breaking for RP at a brokered convention and even less of a chance of McCain's.
RP needs the backing the popular vote. For the Republicans to see that percentage of RP votes they are not going to get unless they make serious changes is far more important than to have them think the republicans want a hard shift to a theocrasy with Huckabee.

I sorry about calling you a Huckabee supporter but when you don't have a long history showing strong backing of RP and are advacating voting for Huckabee it don't look so good.

[Mesogen]

You get ONE vote. Don't throw it away on an asshole like Mike Huckabee.

[Ex Post Facto]

Ron Paul has stated if you are for Ron Paul, Vote Ron Paul.

[justatrey]

Ron Paul has stated if you are for Ron Paul, Vote Ron Paul.

QFT. Stop outhinking yourselves. Are the people suggesting a vote for Huckabee the same geniuses who came up with a way for us to lose Washington? :rolleyes:

[Thanehand]

These posts are simply anti-Paul people trying to break Ron Paul's support. The campaign has officially said that if you support for Ron Paul, you should not vote for any other candidate.

These vote Huck threads that are flooding the forums should all be deleted.

[amistybleu]

I like how this guy of 25 posts quoted me. The campaign had thrown votes to Huckabee in in West Virginia in order to secure 3 delegates and the info was upfront from the campaign. This shitbag with 25 posts has his eys on a Huckabee win and should be tossed from this forum for crimes against the campaign.

VOTE RON PAUL ONLY

[KevinR]

why don't we go on huck's site and tell them to vote for us? if they all did we'd win and huck would goto the brokered convention :]

[amistybleu]

why don't we go on huck's site and tell them to vote for us? if they all did we'd win and huck would goto the brokered convention :]

Yep, It's stupid no matter how you look at it.

[RPfan]

"If You’re for Ron Paul, Vote for Ron Paul"

Repeat:
IF YOU'RE FOR RON PAUL, VOTE FOR RON PAUL.

Ron Paul has preached the message of liberty, peace, small government, etc for decades - by adding every single vote, you are helping his message to be heard more loudly.

Once more,
IF YOU'RE FOR RON PAUL, VOTE FOR RON PAUL.

[Goldwater Conservative]

I'd rather "lose" doing the right thing than "win" doing the wrong thing. In this case, we wouldn't even be winning, we'd only be helping McCain's "sparring partner" and soon-to-be VP.

I'm tired of voting for the lesser of evils. Doing so has only produced... evil. You can bet that the devil's plan if he wanted to take over the world would involve setting up a slightly more repulsive alternative to himself and presenting the illusion of choice between the two of them.

From now on, I'm voting as if my vote was guaranteeing that person victory.

If McCain wins this time around, at least he'll destroy the GOP to the point it realizes the need to return to its conservative roots, which is where the Ron Paul Revolution (with or without Paul himself, he is a man of many years, after all) comes in to pick up the pieces and rebuild for a better future for America.

Liberty: Accept no substitutes.

[klamath]

RP needs to just keep getting more and more votes. Those votes will scare the Republicans more than anything because they will not fall back into the fold in November unless the Republican party makes solid REAL changes. Huckabee and McCain are not those changes.

[Cleaner44]

http://people.ronpaul2008.com/campaign-updates/2008/02/11/if-youre-for-ron-paul-vote-for-ron-paul/

Vote for Ron Paul only.
"If You’re for Ron Paul, Vote for Ron Paul"

[Gimme Some Truth]

I'd like to see a comparison of all the join dates of the people who keep going on about voting for Huckabee.

My guess would be that the majority of them joined in February... like the OP.

.

[amistybleu]

I'd like to see a comparison of all the join dates of the people who keep going on about voting for Huckabee.

My guess would be that the majority of them joined in February... like the OP.

.

Click on thier name and select find all posts, this will give you insight on a particular individual.

[Bradley in DC]

I don't think he's finished, but it would go to a brokered convention where he would most likely lose because we've infiltrated the delegates.

On what, exactly, do you base this statement?