What if Ron Paul supporters separated from the official campaign?

[AJ Antimony]

I am a firm believer that this campaign needs a shot in the arm of creativity in order to truly progress and to start changing the anti-Paul status quo in the United States. Therefore, no matter how absurd, this idea popped into my head today and I would like some feedback.

Some Paul supporters blame the campaign for not spending the raised money efficiently. They point to typical "I approve this message" ads, no attack ads, lack of ads, etc.

So my idea is, what if all of the Ron Paul supporters became an entity of its own? Sort of like it's own company, or website, if you will. Instead of donating millions to Paul's campaign website in a day, they would donate millions to the group itself. Then it would be "we the people" who would spend that money, independently, on unofficial Ron Paul TV ads and the like. Grassroots TV ads, imagine that. Don't get me wrong, we would still donate to his official campaign for everyday things Paul needs to campaign, but in terms of projects, advertising, etc. it would be his grassroots supporters managing it. We would need to coordinate with his campaign so if they say we need TV ads in Hawaii, then we could set that up quickly and efficiently. But aside from that, we wouldn't be affiliated with the campaign at all.

Just brainstorming here folks--something we need more of.

[Rhys]

we never fully connected. thats the problem.

[AJ Antimony]

we never fully connected. thats the problem.

We have if "connected" is defined as completely financing his campaign. Remember unlike Hillary, Obama, McCain, etc. Paul doesn't get money from huge corporations. Individual people alone finance his campaign, I'd call that a connection.

[bcreps85]

Not a bad idea, but someone would have to manage it and it would be hard for everyone to decide on things, but maybe worth a try. Also, I'm not sure what the legal structure for something like that might be...your talking about a lot of money changing hands.

[sgrooms]

in 2016 when RP's presidency is over and we're choosing another candidate to run, we should consider this. but, for now, i say we leave it how it is.

[AlexMerced]

there a bajillion PAC's, LLCs, Non-rofits being started as the fallout of this campaign, I welcome all of them. There to many people in this movement to fit them all underone and give people the influence they deserve

[Mystile]

in 2016 when RP's presidency is over and we're choosing another candidate to run, we should consider this. but, for now, i say we leave it how it is.

I like how a lot of the RP republicans running for Congress have close contact with these forums. :):D:)

[AJ Antimony]

Not a bad idea, but someone would have to manage it and it would be hard for everyone to decide on things, but maybe worth a try. Also, I'm not sure what the legal structure for something like that might be...your talking about a lot of money changing hands.

I'm thinking it would have to exist as a website in which it is mainly a message board where supporters voice their ideas and develop the good ones. Perhaps the users would elect people to manage the money and do the physical work? In terms of the money, I am assuming that people are free to donate their money to whoever they want so I wouldn't think that's a problem. In terms of giving someone permission to physically use the money, maybe it could be something as simple as reading a disclaimer before submitting the donation?

[Rhys]

We have if "connected" is defined as completely financing his campaign. Remember unlike Hillary, Obama, McCain, etc. Paul doesn't get money from huge corporations. Individual people alone finance his campaign, I'd call that a connection.

defined that way, we still haven't. We've done a lot but there's more we should do and should have done. I dunno about you, but I didn't know better. However, Obama raised more last month than we raised for RP in Q3 and Q4 combined. Keep it in perspective. Also, the other people's supporters canvas and have pre-setup organizations to canvas. their endorsements even come with people who canvas! RP had the grassroots but all it got him really was $30 million and a few prized delegates. Not enough for a win though. We could have asked more of Ron Paul, but how? and we didn't do what we could.

that's really how I feel.

[kgiese]

"It ain't over till its over was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" - Animal House movie quote

[Carole]

We have never fully connected because it would be illegal. The campaign has walked a fine line to be careful not to break any laws. You should all know this.

We are separate and that is the way it should be. That is why there is a definite limit to the communication and direction coming from HQ.

We have operated independently as a free market entity all on our own, even though we are basically a non profit entity, philanthropical entity so to speak.

[FreeTraveler]

I'm thinking it would have to exist as a website in which it is mainly a message board where supporters voice their ideas and develop the good ones. Perhaps the users would elect people to manage the money and do the physical work? In terms of the money, I am assuming that people are free to donate their money to whoever they want so I wouldn't think that's a problem. In terms of giving someone permission to physically use the money, maybe it could be something as simple as reading a disclaimer before submitting the donation?

Don't try to over-manage it. The free-market approach is best. People have tha ability to start a chip-in for any project, or form a PAC, and let people here know about it. The good projects get supported, the others fall by the wayside. WWRPD?

[LibertyEagle]

I'm thinking it would have to exist as a website in which it is mainly a message board where supporters voice their ideas and develop the good ones. Perhaps the users would elect people to manage the money and do the physical work? In terms of the money, I am assuming that people are free to donate their money to whoever they want so I wouldn't think that's a problem. In terms of giving someone permission to physically use the money, maybe it could be something as simple as reading a disclaimer before submitting the donation?

Since you're new, you probably are not aware that a great many of the grassroots initiatives came from this forum. Things like the Mosaic ad, the USA Today ad, the NY Times ad, the blimp, various grassroots TV ads and on and on.

So, if you have a great idea, lay it out here and let the market decide. :)

Welcome to the forums, by the way.

[AJ Antimony]

Since you're new, you probably are not aware that a great many of the grassroots initiatives came from this forum. Things like the Mosaic ad, the USA Today ad, the NY Times ad, the blimp, various grassroots TV ads and on and on.

So, if you have a great idea, lay it out here and let the market decide. :)

Welcome to the forums, by the way.

Thank you, thank you. Yes, I assume tons of ideas have passed through already and I really would use the search feature if there weren't like 40,000 threads to dig through! :D

[AJ Antimony]

Don't try to over-manage it. The free-market approach is best. People have tha ability to start a chip-in for any project, or form a PAC, and let people here know about it. The good projects get supported, the others fall by the wayside. WWRPD?

True. The point I was trying to make is that the group would need a specific person to make the phone calls to buy TV time and such. No?

[nightlight]

we never fully connected. thats the problem.

The campaign staff never understood this kind of grasroots and how to tap its energy and creativity. They were on conventional little campaign auto-pilot. Send us money, we will spend it reminding voters to go vote, put few 'hi we're here' lame ads.

Even Dr. Paul was amazed and perplexed a bit with the fire his words ignited. But he is too academic and abstract in his thinking to be a campaign manager. He ought to remain focused on the larger issues of the country, roles of society, government and indvidual, war, economy, liberty... That is his forte, the stuff he spent his life thinking about.

He could, of course, apply his mind to and study these kinds movements and find a way to tap it for the cause of this particular horse-race. For him, it seems that objective is much less important than the victory of his vision. Unlike other candidates, he has no ego in this. It's not about him, as he said many times.

He also suspects that if he were to get anywhere close to winning this election, the parasitic behemoth he is threatening to dismantle would take him out, as the last presedent who went against the Fed, John Kennedy, found out. Even Reagan who just expressed a sympathy for gold standard got almost killed. If we are to win this one and have it stick, there has to be thousands of Ron Pauls at all levels of government bureaucracy, elective offices and military.

Hence, refocusing on the horce-race instead of building the army which can eventually truly win, for him must be like eating the seed corn instead of delaying the gratification, planting the seed, helping it grow and enjoying it much later, after the harvest.

Hence, I don't think he will refocus himself on the horce-race aspect. If we want him to win, we will have to do it ourselves. The grassroots, which are now spread out and quite disorganized, need a common umbrella organization to coordinate activities, focus the donations and build specialized units to fight the enemies (MSM, voting fraud, party establishment), to educate the wider public on what is at stake should the usual politican get to the White House instead of Dr. Paul,... i.e. do everything that is needed to win this horce-race. Dr. Paul is not going to do it himself.

[Rhys]

True. The point I was trying to make is that the group would need a specific person to make the phone calls to buy TV time and such. No?

if you had a specific ad or campaign to run, you could run it. the grassroots has never been focused though... there's multiple simultanious projects.

my point about connecting to the campaign is, we needed all our meetup members to be canvasers, and I think 14% are. Those 14% connected, but the rest made a lot of youtube videos, signs and whatnot. The thing about letting the "market" decide our campaign is, we're not informed consumers of political ideas. Again, I'm just as guilty. I supported the blimp when it was proposed and I raised money for the money bombs but at a certain point, we never put the boots to the ground. We figured, I guess, that the campaign could buy a get out the vote machine at WallMart and what we failed to realize is, money was only half. The other half was our effort and real world labor. There's many people who spent many long hours canvasing and orginizing, and to them we owe almost everything. I did what I could, and I know a lot of you did too, but what we need is to engage more with the campaign, not less. I don't need to hear about legality... there's nothing illegal about volounteering for the campaign. "grassroots" isn't an orginazation who will lose their tax exempt status if you canvas.

[justinc.1089]

The idea of the grassroots kind of handling campaign matters and donating to itself has been brought up before after Iowa and/or New Hampshire, and it went no where. The people against it did bring up a good point about trusting Paul to pick a good campaign staff if he was going to be picking choices as president, but I'm still inclined to the grassroots donating to its own projects instead of official campaign staffs.

And I'm VERY inclined that way now after seeing how the grassroots carried Paul to a 3rd place finish and how his campaign staff was actually pretty incompetent. All the good stuff happened with grassroots efforts.

Imagine that though, we were proven right in our idea of liberty when it is compared to the idea of authoritarianism. It shouldn't be shocking to us that the grassroots did better than a small "official" group in any matter because thats just how the world works.... individually.

[WilliamC]

Here in Mississippi the primary isn't until March 11th.

Until then I'm campaigning for Ron Paul, period.

After that I'll be open to new tactics in the never ending fight to preserve and spread freedom and liberty for all.

As has already been pointed out in this thread there are literally dozens of new initiatives now underway as a result of what Ron Paul has done through his campaign.

If the primaries are over where you are find one or two that you believe in and jump on board, or find a need in your locality and start filling it.

Above all, please take the time to watch this video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958) for exactly what we are up against and what long-term strategy is all about.

[WilliamC]

Since you're new, you probably are not aware that a great many of the grassroots initiatives came from this forum. Things like the Mosaic ad, the USA Today ad, the NY Times ad, the blimp, various grassroots TV ads and on and on.

So, if you have a great idea, lay it out here and let the market decide. :)

Welcome to the forums, by the way.

Shameless forum plug ;)

[AJ Antimony]

if you had a specific ad or campaign to run, you could run it.

Not if you're paying for it with money not donated directly to you, right?

[Revolution9]

True. The point I was trying to make is that the group would need a specific person to make the phone calls to buy TV time and such. No?

That occurs but more as in an ecosystem than a corporate infrastructure. The gaps gets filled. I put on an all day concert here and becaiuse i knew RP folks were helping I planned nothing. I just said get to the square between nine and ten with you stuff and lets rock. By 10:30 the place was ablaze with RP banners and tables and signs. The whole thg went off without a hitch. We even had the ubiquitous police call that told the cops we were not permitted and to shut us down. The permit stopped that gambit cold and the officer laughed knowing what was trying to be done through his badge.RP people know how to fill in the gaps.

Best
Randy

[Rhys]

Not if you're paying for it with money not donated directly to you, right?

yeah, but the rule of thumb is save half to get sued with. Honestly, about the best thing the blimp did was come up with a model for huge amounts of money to be spent.

I thought about doing this in November, but the blimp was so expensive that I didn't want to compete, and I believed in the blimp. I still do, it got us some good media. I'm glad it's over though. I wished I'd have listed to myself.

Here's the honest to God truth though: any of you are probably not more qualified to get votes. The disconnect is that people think all we need it better television ads. Well, ok but do you have a concept of exactly how much money that is? Remember, florida alone was 1.2 million a week just to run it. Then we'd need magazine, radio, print and web ads. Now we're gonna talking hidden costs....

the point is this, even $30 million wasn't enough for a national ad campaign. Thank God he used it on organization and direct marketing because the money really has been well spent in this way.

What we really need to do for the campaign is work with it, not compete with it. We need to canvas. I know that's not sexy, but it is what works. Getting all excited about an ad campaign is nutz. You see them on TV and think, if Pepsi can do it, so can we. Well, Pepsi sells like 30 million bottles of soda a day.

We could very well win with direct marketing. Person to person, targeted marketing. You all get very excited about tv ads, but as a marketer let me tell you what would make me drool. 100,000 people out representing door to door, in person, my brand. I would spend 100 million on that.