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Thanehand
02-10-2008, 12:44 AM
Ugh. This sucks. Yet someone else who completely disregards the fact that Ron never said he was quitting.

In light of Ron's email, Libertarian Party trying to woo Paul supporters to their "camp." I'm not saying anyone should do what they ask -- I'm waiting till the Convention before I decide anything -- but in any case, I found this e-mail that I received from the Libertarian party interesting (albeit a bit whiney and shameful at the same time).

I really hope nobody in states yet to caucus/primary gets this and switches before the do so :mad:



February 9, 2008

FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY:

Dear friend,

Late Friday evening, Ron Paul sent out a message to his many supporters stating that he had a "nearly zero" chance of winning the Republican nomination in a brokered convention. Dr. Paul also stated loud and clear that "there will be no third party run."

Many of our own members, maybe even you, have been enthusiastic supporters of Dr. Paul's campaign over the past year. Many thousands have given their time, money and their passion to support the efforts of Ron Paul's presidential campaign.

The efforts of these thousands of supporters were noble, but in the end, Republicans rejected Dr. Paul's message of peace, prosperity and freedom.

The GOP will more than likely move forward with the nomination of a compromising politician who does not cherish the merits of liberty and shows little interest in shrinking the size and power of government.

This leaves the Republican Party right where it started and where it has been for many, many years -- a party without principle. With its partner on the left, both parties continue to represent a compromising beast that continually thirsts for more power at the expense of our liberty, our property and our privacy.

In stark contrast, the Libertarian Party stands firm. Our values are unwavering. Our commitment is unstoppable.

This is not because we hold a strong partisan loyalty to our party structure, it's because we have trust and love for liberty in its purest form. Our party serves as the vessel to affect change within our nation. And unlike the GOP, we don't need to change the party from within and regain our principles, as they have never been lost.

The Libertarian Party is the last remaining stronghold for liberty in American politics.

Unfortunately, the Ron Paul campaign has unintentionally taken a toll on our party. Many of our members have changed their voter registration to vote for Ron Paul in a primary while others have allowed their support to lapse as they gave all that they could for a candidate that represented their values.

Early on, I made the decision to not interfere or discourage this activity. I felt it was wrong for me to place our party above such an incredible opportunity for liberty that existed with Dr. Paul's run for the White House.

But today, it's time to come home.

If you have switched your party registration, allowed your membership to lapse or have put off your decision to join the LP, I now ask that you reverse course and renew your support for our principled party.

In spite of the events of this past year, we were still able to make significant gains in membership with a 28 percent increase while we moved onto a firm financial footing. We did this while seeing inspiring electoral success by winning 20 percent of our races.

This proves that Americans are waking up to liberty and a historic opportunity for growth exists for the LP in 2008. However, in order to take advantage of this time, we need every last man and woman back in our party.

It's time to come home.

Liberty is alive in America today but it is suppressed by the significance and power of the two-party system. Partisanship, combined with ignorance, is destroying our nation by taking away our freedoms and even the lives of those we love through wars of aggression.

The two-party system must be beaten back and destroyed.

Fighting from within either the Republican or Democratic structure does nothing to accomplish this goal and only increases our many problems as time, energy and money is wasted to change a monstrosity that is corrupt beyond repair.

Why fight to move your own party in the direction of freedom when you can fight each day to move your nation in the direction of freedom?

It's time to come home.

Liberty is something that can be everything to one man and nothing to another. Some accept that, while they are born free, they do not live free. They go about their existence either in resignation that they cannot change their personal destiny or they have grown comfortable in their shackles.

Libertarians are different.

Our hearts burn for freedom. We wake each morning, intent on moving our nation in the direction of liberty.

Our passion cannot be diminished or compromised through party labels or the actions of cunning men. Libertarians working through the Libertarian Party will continually challenge those who mean to enslave us through taxation, fear and warfare.

It's time to come home.

Among the many opportunities that exist for our movement, one of the most important is reaching out to the thousands of men and women whose passions have been ignited by the Ron Paul campaign.

All Libertarians must put out a welcome mat to these Americans as they continue to learn more about liberty but are now politically homeless. Most importantly, we must tolerate the minor differences that we may have and accept the differing stages of development of our political thought.

Many of you will be receiving a letter in the mail with the intent of welcoming Ron Paul and his supporters into our party. While that letter was written before the rush of recent events, it is vital that you respond to signal your support for giving these supporters a home within our party.

It's time to come home and to offer a home to those whose minds have been opened to liberty.

Take action today:

To renew your membership, go to www.lp.org/renew

To join the Libertarian Party, go to www.lp.org/join

To donate, go to www.lp.org/donate

To change your voter registration to Libertarian, contact your state party, by visiting www.lp.org/states

Also, do not hesitate to contact me or any other member of our staff by calling 1-800-Elect-Us.

Please take action after you finish reading this message.

In closing, I would like to give the following words to those who stubbornly continue their fight to change the corrupt and destructive Republican or Democrat parties from within.

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." – Samuel Adams, 1776

Our founding fathers did not hope to change the tyranny of British rule from within. They faced their challenge head on. They did not waver, even in spite of the very real possibility that they would lose their very lives against an overwhelming power. They stood together, and eventually they won their freedom.

It is up to us -- we passionate Libertarians -- to reclaim our liberty.

With respect and sincerity,

Shane Cory
Executive Director
Libertarian National Committee

Revolution9
02-10-2008, 12:52 AM
What a bunch of drooldonkeys.

Randy

ronpaulyourmom
02-10-2008, 12:54 AM
I will take a good look at them in March.

literatim
02-10-2008, 12:54 AM
The Libertarian Party is solely for the advancement of the party itself and cares nothing for America. There is a reason why many broke away from it.

clintontj72
02-10-2008, 12:58 AM
The Libertarian party speaks the truth...I will vote RP in my primary...and then reregister to fight evil...the Republican party is washed up...you all know it is...to many neocons have inflitrated it. I am in for RP long haul...but will show my displeasure to my party by registering Libertarian after my primary!

billjarrett
02-10-2008, 12:58 AM
The Libertarian Party is solely for the advancement of the party itself and cares nothing for America. There is a reason why many broke away from it.

I have noticed this too.

I also think our best bet, like Dr Paul, is staying with the GOP and taking it over from the roots. It would be alot more work to build the Libertarian party up to a viable party than it would be to just take the GOP and use the existing infrastructure. If we get moving on this, we can have many more candidates with our beliefs running in 2010/2012 (If it's not too late by then).

Thunderbolt
02-10-2008, 12:59 AM
I will take a good look at them in March.

Excellent idea. Here is there party motto:

Libertarians believe the answer to America's political problems is the same commitment to freedom that earned America its greatness: a free-market economy and the abundance and prosperity it brings; a dedication to civil liberties and personal freedom that marks this country above all others; and a foreign policy of non-intervention, peace, and free trade as prescribed by America's founders."

Here is the website: http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml

But wait until after you vote for Ron Paul.

HollyforRP
02-10-2008, 01:01 AM
cute.

Thunderbolt
02-10-2008, 01:02 AM
I have noticed this too.

I also think our best bet, like Dr Paul, is staying with the GOP and taking it over from the roots. It would be alot more work to build the Libertarian party up to a viable party than it would be to just take the GOP and use the existing infrastructure. If we get moving on this, we can have many more candidates with our beliefs running in 2010/2012 (If it's not too late by then).

You have got to be kidding right? Do you know how powerful they are and how many of them there are? Unless you plan on going into politics full time for the next 20 years or so, you don't have much of a prayer. The party does not want to be for small government. The party likes its power. Read the national agenda. It is ugly and evil. They want NATO. They want the war in Iraq.

Unless you have a few million others in your pocket you are not going to affect any more change than you did when tried to get Ron Paul to be the party candidate.

phoenix1861
02-10-2008, 01:06 AM
While I have much in common with the LP, they're loaded down with a lot of bad public relations baggage, and, what's worse, they've never shown themselves to be serious about winning elections. They're more of a debating society than anything else.

I think we need a fresh new start with a new approach to building a third party, primarily by learning from the mistakes of past efforts.

Check out the American Freedom Party. The idea has been sort of back-burnered during this Ron Paul GOP run, but it wouldn't take many people to get it off the ground. I think there are going to be a whole lot of people looking for alternatives before much longer. America under McCain or Clinton will not be pretty.

http://americanfreedomparty.blogspot.com

Preamble

The American Freedom Party is a 21st Century effort to revive the revolutionary vision and founding principles that first made the United States of America possible, and later allowed it to become freedom's shining city on a hill, a beacon of hope for all mankind.

Over time, the original vision of America's founders has been lost. It has been systematically supplanted by special interests and corrupt politicians who have abused the public trust and have overthrown the Constitution's plan for limited government in favor of consolidating power in Washington D.C. Political agendas have crept into the halls of justice. Irresponsible fiscal policy has swelled our country's debt to astronomical heights and threatens to bring our economy crashing down around us. Interventionist foreign policies have unnecessarily spilled our dearest blood and treasure all across the planet. America's prestige throughout the world has faltered. Political debate at home has become increasingly more strident. Unelected bureaucrats are coming to control the smallest details of our everyday lives. Onerous taxes and regulations are driving American businesses and jobs overseas. Families struggle more to get by on less as prices rise. We no longer see our way clearly into the future.

The time has come for change, for a new renaissance of freedom and opportunity. The American Freedom Party hopes to lead the way by restoring our country's most beloved ideals to the halls of government, and by removing every obstacle that stands in the way of individual Americans pursuing their happiness and rising to the heights of their potential.

billjarrett
02-10-2008, 01:06 AM
You have got to be kidding right? Do you know how powerful they are and how many of them there are? Unless you plan on going into politics full time for the next 20 years or so, you don't have much of a prayer. The party does not want to be for small government. The party likes its power. Read the national agenda. It is ugly and evil. They want NATO. They want the war in Iraq.

Unless you have a few million others in your pocket you are not going to affect any more change than you did when tried to get Ron Paul to be the party candidate.

We've started it in Alaska. Some counties in Wisconsin too, but I can't find the thread.

http://www.eagleforum.org/misc/brochures/precinct-committman.shtml is the name of the game.

It doesn't take millions of dollars, or full time. Precinctmen decide the county, county decides the state, state decides national. It's been working so far in many places.

In my county here, they are really entrenched, and won't be as easy for us to get committeemen as many areas are reporting. We are meeting up in the next few weeks to start working on a plan. I think we missed the chance to get our names on the committeeman list this time around, so we have time to plan and build up.

Check out the sticky at the top about Alaska. That is the plan, those guys are the true revolutionaries and patriots. That is exactly what we need to be doing nationwide.

JonathanR
02-10-2008, 01:10 AM
I'm fortunate to live in a state where we do not have to register with any party. I can (and will) continue to support the LP and work to change the GOP.

billjarrett
02-10-2008, 01:12 AM
I'm fortunate to live in a state where we do not have to register with any party. I can (and will) continue to support the LP and work to change the GOP.

Rock on if you've got the time to do both. I'm a full time worker with long commute, full time student, father and husband.. I have to pick my battles wisely.

Glad to have people like you on board.

Omphfullas Zamboni
02-10-2008, 01:16 AM
See below:


That's right...

Today we held our local district conventions and selected our delegates to the State convention in Alaska. We turned out the Paulites! Not only did we get a clear majority of delegates to the state (we were very organized and completely stealthy in this - it was like a surprise attack by Ron Paul), but listen to this...

While we were there we voted on platform changes for the state GOP. You will not believe some of the stuff that passed!

The most controversial one was the one that I proposed. There was a section in the platform that said the Republican Party of Alaska opposes any sort of gaming (gambling) in the state on the basis that it is harmful to families and communities. I proposed striking that out entirely, from the standpoint of personal and economic liberty, and after huge debate and three recounts my movement PASSED by ONE VOTE! So now that its passed the local level, it'll go on to state!

Guess what else?

Another Ron Paul supporter proposed striking out and replacing a section that said something to the effect of: "The Republican Party of Alaska supports the aggressive world wide war on terror and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan." The replacement that PASSED read something like: "We will not support military intervention in a foreign country unless a constitutional, congressional declaration of war is made." How HUGE is that?

And perhaps the craziest win of the day, in my opinion, was when we passed a movement to change the party platform to read that we, as Republicans, support the legalization of industrial hemp. LOL!

Lots of other awesome platform changes passed, having to do with state's rights, educational choice, and immigration. Everything was in line with the Ron Paul platform, and pretty Libertarian sounding!

The other conventions that took place elsewhere today and earlier in the week have also reported high numbers of Ron Paul delegates to the state convention, and similar interesting successes at their local level. It really looks to me like we can go to the state convention and ENACT some extremely controversial party platform changes! It would be so great to see the neo-cons have to run independent for failing to endorse the Republican Party platform, and so great to see them squirm in terror when they realize that RON PAUL has TAKEN OVER THEIR PARTY!

Anyway... I just had to share this! :D

billjarrett
02-10-2008, 01:21 AM
I wish it were going to be that easy for us here. We seem to be the exception locally instead of the rule. Too bad it's not the Democrat party we are trying to take over, we'd have it in a day here.

Our County GOP runs a full slate of precinct committeemen just to stop this from happening. Any slots that go unfilled for election, they fill with appointees from out of precinct just to fill the slot so nobody can claim it. Since most folks don't realize the power of local politics, it is pretty easy for them to do so from what I've seen.

We're going to have to come in with a pretty big slate of committeemen wannabes to make an impact here. To actually get the majority vote, we're actually going to have to take the majority. We have about 1-2 years for planning, so we think we can do it. Just need to start taking the momentum from the presidential campaign here and move onward.

It could get ugly here, but we're ready to get our hands dirty. Wish us luck.

Russellk30
02-10-2008, 01:45 AM
The Libertarian Party is solely for the advancement of the party itself and cares nothing for America. There is a reason why many broke away from it.

Hmmm....Are you sure your not describing the Republican Party? To argue that the Libertarian Party has lost its way is kind of ironic coming from a Republican. Be wary of those that speak often of absolutes, for their motivations are questionable.

I found out about the Libertarian Party because of Ron Paul, and for that (and many other reasons) I thank Him. Even if one is a life long Republican, it would be difficult to deny the wisdom of multiple sustainable political parties. In a two party system, who is one to choose when crazy has infiltrated both camps?

NinjaPirate
02-10-2008, 01:50 AM
Did anyone get the subtle message in that letter?? :rolleyes:

Akus
02-10-2008, 01:51 AM
This is very stupid of a Libertarian Party. Instead of trying to get as many Libertarians for RP as possible, they're trying to break up his already damaged support even more. No wonder they're about to be 40 years old and are still just an irrelevant fringe counterculture instead of a 3rd viable choice.

TwiLeXia
02-10-2008, 01:52 AM
I agree... I am disappointed in the Libertarian Party for doing this.

I still think we should make our own party ^_^

Russellk30
02-10-2008, 01:54 AM
We've started it in Alaska. Some counties in Wisconsin too, but I can't find the thread.

http://www.eagleforum.org/misc/brochures/precinct-committman.shtml is the name of the game.

It doesn't take millions of dollars, or full time. Precinctmen decide the county, county decides the state, state decides national. It's been working so far in many places.

In my county here, they are really entrenched, and won't be as easy for us to get committeemen as many areas are reporting. We are meeting up in the next few weeks to start working on a plan. I think we missed the chance to get our names on the committeeman list this time around, so we have time to plan and build up.

Check out the sticky at the top about Alaska. That is the plan, those guys are the true revolutionaries and patriots. That is exactly what we need to be doing nationwide.


Precinct leaders do not choose the nominee. Even though many of the precinct leaders were not Ron Paul supporters, we were still able to vote for him. The only effect the local party can have is to convince people to vote for their candidate, or as we have seen, use underhanded techniques for the good of their candidate.

For the most part, the national party and the media choose the candidates. Fred Thompson had huge local GOP support, but that didn’t get him anywhere.

I will admit that the GOP can be reformed, but don’t plan on it being easy and do plan on it taking decades.

Thunderbolt
02-10-2008, 01:56 AM
We've started it in Alaska. Some counties in Wisconsin too, but I can't find the thread.

http://www.eagleforum.org/misc/brochures/precinct-committman.shtml is the name of the game.

It doesn't take millions of dollars, or full time. Precinctmen decide the county, county decides the state, state decides national. It's been working so far in many places.

In my county here, they are really entrenched, and won't be as easy for us to get committeemen as many areas are reporting. We are meeting up in the next few weeks to start working on a plan. I think we missed the chance to get our names on the committeeman list this time around, so we have time to plan and build up.

Check out the sticky at the top about Alaska. That is the plan, those guys are the true revolutionaries and patriots. That is exactly what we need to be doing nationwide.

Getting something done at the local level is admirable. But, they haven't accomplished anything yet. When the state votes in their changes then I will be a believer. Also, you have to change nearly every line of the party. Not sure they will be happy with that. That is a lot of coercing. I am not saying don't try. I am saying I am too old for a twenty year battle because that is how long you are going to have to go meeting every single month to get to positions of real power within the RNC and those people don't want you there. They don't want your small government theme. They want war mongering power.

You may have missed the chance to become a committeeman this time, but I did not. I thought ahead. I have been in this dreadful party for 7 months now. I did it for Ron Paul.

I am in a slightly larger place than Alaska. I live in a big city with a big GOP. They nearly threw me out when I tried to say anything and I was ignored and hissed at and sneered at when I mentioned the Constitution and sticking to it. They instead wanted a resolution of war. I was one. They were many hundreds. Maybe 3 stood with me. Those 3 are gone now. I am alone and not wanted. Soon I will be asked to leave.

But good luck to you. I don't begrudge you the chance.

But back off the Libertarian Party. If we all went there and decided to take action then we would have a party that fits us, the GOP can die from obscurity and we will have a party that can step in and take its place. The GOP is dying right now. The Libertarian party is growing.

Ron LOL
02-10-2008, 01:57 AM
Time to come home? What a prick.

I'm not a libertarian. I'm a Ron Paul republican.

Fields
02-10-2008, 01:59 AM
Rock on if you've got the time to do both. I'm a full time worker with long commute, full time student, father and husband.. I have to pick my battles wisely.

Glad to have people like you on board.

You are the one we need to say rock on to. You have a FULL schedule yet give this forum and Dr. Paul all the attention and effort in the world. Thank you.

Fields
02-10-2008, 02:00 AM
Time to come home? What a prick.

I'm not a libertarian. I'm a Ron Paul republican.

This is EXACTLY how I feel. Although the LP sounds all fine and dandy. Unless you get a mass exodus, it won't work.

ArrestPoliticians
02-10-2008, 02:00 AM
Tell those selfish LIBERALtarians with their open border policy to shove it. We're taking over. The system calls for 51% of the vote to win, a Libertarian can never achieve that outside of the mainstream parties that MANDATE significant media coverage.

JonathanR
02-10-2008, 02:00 AM
You are the one we need to say rock on to. You have a FULL schedule yet give this forum and Dr. Paul all the attention and effort in the world. Thank you.

Absolutely!

Russellk30
02-10-2008, 02:04 AM
Tell those selfish LIBERALtarians with their open border policy to shove it. We're taking over. The system calls for 51% of the vote to win, a Libertarian can never achieve that outside of the mainstream parties that MANDATE significant media coverage.

Thank you God, for you have shown me the light. Alright, everybody get back to posting and let there be no mention of third parties ever again. God himself has spoken and we all know the proper path to take.

I am glad there are so many omnipresent individuals around, for what would I do without the presence of such insight. I would be lost. At least we know that the two party system will forever be present in American politics.

We always knew that the “left right paradigm" forced upon us by the MSM was correct, and now it has been confirmed. God is now pleased. Let us continue are grazing, for the Shepard protects us from all evil.

Thunderbolt
02-10-2008, 02:07 AM
This is very stupid of a Libertarian Party. Instead of trying to get as many Libertarians for RP as possible, they're trying to break up his already damaged support even more. No wonder they're about to be 40 years old and are still just an irrelevant fringe counterculture instead of a 3rd viable choice.

Well the man you are supporting is a part of that fringe counterculture.

YOU are that irrelevant fringe counterculture. Don't you get it? What do you think the Revolution is? Mainstream?

Christ, talking to you all about libertarianism is about as much fun as talking to the mainstream public about Ron Paul. You are biased and ignorant and refuse to learn anything about the party platform, you just bitch bitch bitch about a group that is fighting for everything you have just learned about this year. Who do you think taught Ron Paul half of what he believes? The Republicans?

I am stunned to see the hatred around here for the Libertarian party. Do you know nothing about what Ron Paul is about? Moreover, most of us took that letter yesterday to mean Ron Paul was giving up in practicality but going on in principle knowing he can't win. The LP party thought he was quitting. So did a lot of people. Bitch at Ron Paul if you don't like what his letter created. He wrote the silly thing.

Then today, his own campaign had to try to explain what he said, and say he didn't mean what he said. Give me a break. Lay off the LP for thinking what we all did, that Ron Paul was quitting. Or was that letter just an experiment in reverse psychology? It sure was the dumbest "let's rally the supporters" letter I have ever seen. And putting it out one day before several contests were held was just genius!

literatim
02-10-2008, 02:09 AM
At least we know that the two party system will forever be present in American politics..

It will be until one or both of the parties decides to allow other parties to play ball and neither of them are quite willing to give up the power at this time.


Well the man you are supporting is a part of that fringe counterculture.

YOU are that irrelevant fringe counterculture. Don't you get it? What do you think the Revolution is? Mainstream?

Christ, talking to you all about libertarianism is about as much fun as talking to the mainstream public about Ron Paul. You are biased and ignorant and refuse to learn anything about the party platform, you just bitch bitch bitch about a group that is fighting for everything you have just learned about this year. Who do you think taught Ron Paul half of what he believes? The Republicans?

I am stunned to see the hatred around here for the Libertarian party. Do you know nothing about what Ron Paul is about? Moreover, most of us took that letter yesterday to mean Ron Paul was giving up in practicality but going on in principle knowing he can't win. The LP party thought he was quitting. So did a lot of people. Bitch at Ron Paul if you don't like what his letter created. He wrote the silly thing.

Then today, his own campaign had to try to explain what he said, and say he didn't mean what he said. Give me a break. Lay off the LP for thinking what we all did, that Ron Paul was quitting. Or was that letter just an experiment in reverse psychology? It sure was the dumbest "let's rally the supporters" letter I have ever seen. And putting it out one day before several contests were held was just genius!

We haven't been around 40 years and we have already made more progress than the Libertarian Party ever has or ever will.

Shink
02-10-2008, 02:13 AM
I find this party loyalty crap quite distasteful. We all know the GOP is corrupt, but we also know the LP will never become successful. I am more on the lookout than ever before for phony 'libertarians' hoping to take our political muscle for a ride. I hold no blood pact with any particular party. I just want to do the most possible to advance the cause of liberty. Just support Ron Paul Republicans and become them yourselves if you fancy yourself another Ron Paul.

MsDoodahs
02-10-2008, 02:14 AM
But back off the Libertarian Party. If we all went there and decided to take action then we would have a party that fits us, the GOP can die from obscurity and we will have a party that can step in and take its place. The GOP is dying right now. The Libertarian party is growing.

The Libertarian Party sent that email attempting to swipe RP supporters, therefore it is not the RP supporters who need to do the backing off, it's the LP who should back off.

We aren't all going to the LP. In fact, I think very few will - especially with the LP sending crap like this to RP folks.

The GOP is dying...and as with broken hearts, there is a LOT more room in a broken one than a whole one.

The GOP is ripe for takeover.

That's what some of us intend to do.

:)

Thunderbolt
02-10-2008, 02:14 AM
Tell those selfish LIBERALtarians with their open border policy to shove it. We're taking over. The system calls for 51% of the vote to win, a Libertarian can never achieve that outside of the mainstream parties that MANDATE significant media coverage.

Well then tell Ron Paul to shove it too! He is a selfish Libertarian. Right now. He is a member of the Libertarian party. Shall I tell him you want him to shove it?

Do you have any idea who you are supporting?

Ron Paul also has an open border policy as soon as the welfare is gone. Libertarians also want the welfare gone.

Ron Paul writes for one of the most important Libertarian website there is in the world. I am sure he does that because he hates them all as much as you do.

Who are you people? You sure as hell are not Ron Paul supporters. You don't know who that man is, who he supports, what his background is, or where he learned what he learned.

This revolution is doomed to failure if you are all so uninformed of the basis of the Ron Paul message.

How sad for us all.

LibertyEagle
02-10-2008, 02:18 AM
You have got to be kidding right? Do you know how powerful they are and how many of them there are? Unless you plan on going into politics full time for the next 20 years or so, you don't have much of a prayer. The party does not want to be for small government. The party likes its power. Read the national agenda. It is ugly and evil. They want NATO. They want the war in Iraq.

Unless you have a few million others in your pocket you are not going to affect any more change than you did when tried to get Ron Paul to be the party candidate.

Actually Thunderbolt, the Republican party was changed by Barry Goldwater's presidential run, back in '64. Before that, it was largely consumed by Rockefeller, big government types. So yes, it can be done. With the influx of the ex-Trotskyite neoconservatives to the party, the pendulum has swung back to big government. The movement started by Ron Paul can be the impetus to swing it back the other way. That is, if we decide to do that.

Personally, I'm not too much into "party" politics, as I make my decision on who to vote for, by the person themselves. That said, both parties, Libertarian and Republican, have their pluses and minuses. In my opinion, one thing to keep in mind though, is that disgusting as it is, only Repubs and Dems are allowed in national debates.

Akus
02-10-2008, 02:18 AM
It will be until one or both of the parties decides to allow other parties to play ball and neither of them are quite willing to give up the power at this time.



We haven't been around 40 years and we have already made more progress than the Libertarian Party ever has or ever will.

Thank you. Shut up, thunderbolt. LP's heart is in the right place, but they can't fight worth shit. They're easily fracturable. Think about atheists and Christians, pro-lifers and choice people, pro-American expansion to the Middle East and anti-that. They want too much too soon. I've outlined elsewhere why they don't have their crap together, but the point still stands and that letter only reinforces it.

Russellk30
02-10-2008, 02:18 AM
It will be until one or both of the parties decides to allow other parties to play ball and neither of them are quite willing to give up the power at this time.

So anybody that strays from establishment thought and practice will be irrelevant for all time unless the establishment allows them to be otherwise? Under all circumstances? Has there ever or will there ever be an exception? What is your fascination with absolutism?

MsDoodahs
02-10-2008, 02:19 AM
He is a member of the Libertarian party.

Ron is a REPUBLICAN.

See yesterday's email from Ron himself.

It seems to me that a lot of Libertarians had a dream of riding to glory on GOP coattails - their hopes were dashed because Ron said AGAIN that he is a REPUBLICAN - and now they're angry.

Reminds me of the night Ron went on Beck...

Thunderbolt
02-10-2008, 02:21 AM
The Libertarian Party sent that email attempting to swipe RP supporters, therefore it is not the RP supporters who need to do the backing off, it's the LP who should back off.

We aren't all going to the LP. In fact, I think very few will - especially with the LP sending crap like this to RP folks.

The GOP is dying...and as with broken hearts, there is a LOT more room in a broken one than a whole one.

The GOP is ripe for takeover.

That's what some of us intend to do.

:)


Yes, that is clear. You moderators on here have squashed anything that has to do with libertarianism for a long time now. You only allow negative threads to stay in the main room and you move anything that is remotely positive. You are clearly GOP supporters and have been from the start. I am not really sure why you ever supported Ron Paul. After all, all libertarian means is a lover of liberty and if you don't like liberty and rail so hard against the one party that kept it alive all these years, the same party that had Ron Paul as its nominee, then I don't know what you are doing here.

It would be nice if you would keep your political agenda to yourself and let the board make its own decision, instead of using your power to move threads and change titles, and destroy conversations to quash anything remotely intelligent when it comes to discussing libertarianism, the Libertarian Party or the libertarian message.

If you had allowed equal time for both messages I would not be complaining, but you don't. You have framed the debate for a long time now and this forum is suffering for it. Why not allow the free market of ideas to determine what the people want, or is that not allowed?

You have the power, we don't, so you get to wield it and turn this board into whatever political group you want it to be. You can ban all libertarians, move all libertarian threads, and allow anti-libertarian threads only. You have a lot of power.

I am ashamed of the way you are using it.

literatim
02-10-2008, 02:21 AM
Well then tell Ron Paul to shove it too! He is a selfish Libertarian. Right now. He is a member of the Libertarian party. Shall I tell him you want him to shove it?

He is such a great Libertarian that he ran in Congress 10 times as Libertarian... Oh wait, no he didn't.


Ron Paul also has an open border policy as soon as the welfare is gone. Libertarians also want the welfare gone.

Oh yeah? Show me that statement.


Ron Paul writes for one of the most important Libertarian website there is in the world. I am sure he does that because he hates them all as much as you do.

Who are you people? You sure as hell are not Ron Paul supporters. You don't know who that man is, who he supports, what his background is, or where he learned what he learned.

This revolution is doomed to failure if you are all so uninformed of the basis of the Ron Paul message.

How sad for us all.

I know him quite well. I also know he isn't quite the libertarian you make him out to be. For example, Ron Paul would ban prostitution if he was a local legislator (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_s5HOwoWJE).

Russellk30
02-10-2008, 02:23 AM
Actually Thunderbolt, the Republican party was changed by Barry Goldwater's presidential run, back in '64. Before that, it was largely consumed by Rockefeller, big government types. So yes, it can be done.

Personally, I'm not too much into "party" politics, as I make my decision on who to vote for, by the person themselves. That said, both parties, Libertarian and Republican, have their pluses and minuses. In my opinion, one thing to keep in mind though, is that disgusting as it is, only Repubs and Dems are allowed in national debates.

What exactly did the goldwater revolution accomplish. Was the size of government ever reduced? In any year after his nomination? It seems that the big government types never really lost control of the party.

literatim
02-10-2008, 02:26 AM
What exactly did the goldwater revolution accomplish. Was the size of government ever reduced? In any year after his nomination? It seems that the big government types never really lost control of the party.

They got Reagan in who then systematically took down all of the hard work.

LibertyEagle
02-10-2008, 02:26 AM
Well then tell Ron Paul to shove it too! He is a selfish Libertarian. Right now. He is a member of the Libertarian party. Shall I tell him you want him to shove it?

Do you have any idea who you are supporting?

Ron Paul also has an open border policy as soon as the welfare is gone. Libertarians also want the welfare gone.

Ron Paul writes for one of the most important Libertarian website there is in the world. I am sure he does that because he hates them all as much as you do.

Who are you people? You sure as hell are not Ron Paul supporters. You don't know who that man is, who he supports, what his background is, or where he learned what he learned.

This revolution is doomed to failure if you are all so uninformed of the basis of the Ron Paul message.

How sad for us all.

Libertarians don't have the market on liberty. Traditional conservatives (aka libertarian-conservatives) have been singing that song for decades.

It seems to me that you are attempting to divide up the Ron Paul supporters into categories. One does not need to join the Libertarian party to be dedicated to this movement. Nor, is it necessary that they remain Republican. What does matter is our principles.

By the way, Ron Paul has been a Republican for at least 35 years that I know of.

Thunderbolt
02-10-2008, 02:26 AM
He is such a great Libertarian that he ran in Congress 10 times as Libertarian... Oh wait, no he didn't.


He is a libertarian right now.



Oh yeah? Show me that statement.

Watch the debates. He explains that without the welfare we wouldn't need to worry about the borders and we wouldn't be making scapegoats (as you are) of the illegal aliens because we would need their labor.



I know him quite well. I also know he isn't quite the libertarian you make him out to be. For example, Ron Paul would ban prostitution if he was a local legislator (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_s5HOwoWJE).

Nobody's perfect.

literatim
02-10-2008, 02:30 AM
Ron Paul is a constitutionalist. People need to learn the difference between that and a Libertarian.


By the way, Ron Paul has been a Republican for at least 35 years that I know of.

Ron Paul comes from a Republican family.

Russellk30
02-10-2008, 02:32 AM
Ron Paul has stated on many occasions that if it were not for the bad economy that we would not even have a problem with immigration and that he would greatly increase the amount of legal immigration. There are sources all over the Internet, just google if you’re doubtful. Read some of his essays over at Rockwell also.
Ron Paul is a much more of a libertarian at the national level than he would be at the local level, but there are many in the Libertarian Party that think the same way. It is better to have the Federal government out of all social issues no matter the case. Libertarianism is not set in stone.

LibertyEagle
02-10-2008, 02:47 AM
Yes, that is clear. You moderators on here have squashed anything that has to do with libertarianism for a long time now. You only allow negative threads to stay in the main room and you move anything that is remotely positive. You are clearly GOP supporters and have been from the start. I am not really sure why you ever supported Ron Paul. After all, all libertarian means is a lover of liberty and if you don't like liberty and rail so hard against the one party that kept it alive all these years, the same party that had Ron Paul as its nominee, then I don't know what you are doing here.

It would be nice if you would keep your political agenda to yourself and let the board make its own decision, instead of using your power to move threads and change titles, and destroy conversations to quash anything remotely intelligent when it comes to discussing libertarianism, the Libertarian Party or the libertarian message.

If you had allowed equal time for both messages I would not be complaining, but you don't. You have framed the debate for a long time now and this forum is suffering for it. Why not allow the free market of ideas to determine what the people want, or is that not allowed?

You have the power, we don't, so you get to wield it and turn this board into whatever political group you want it to be. You can ban all libertarians, move all libertarian threads, and allow anti-libertarian threads only. You have a lot of power.

I am ashamed of the way you are using it.

Thunderbolt, or Jennifer, whichever it is, threads such as this one, whose sole intent is to recruit members to a political party, have nothing to do with the purpose of Grassroots Central. That is why it was moved, just like a similar thread was moved the other day on the Republican party. The Moderators are far from perfect, but we do our best to be fair.

As far as you saying that we do not allow threads about libertarianism to be in Grassroots Central, are you honestly going to sit here and state that discussions about individual liberty are not allowed in GC or on the board? Nothing could be further than the truth. If they are constructive threads dealing with getting Ron Paul elected, they certainly deserve to be on GC. If however they are issue threads that do not relate to grassroots action toward the election, then they most likely are moved to the appropriate subforum.

Look, I realize that sometimes it's tough to see a thread you started, moved, but if we don't try to keep some semblance of organization on the forum, no one could find anything and the threads would be flying so fast off of the front page of Grassroots Central, that no one would be able to keep up. The admins have done their best to layout this forum, with all its various subforums. But, if any of you guys have a better idea, then I'm sure they'll be more than happy to hear your suggestions. There's a subforum for suggestions too and it's right here, "Forum Feedback and Ideas": http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=193


You are clearly GOP supporters and have been from the start. I am not really sure why you ever supported Ron Paul.

As far as this comment goes, since I live in Texas, there is no reason for me to belong to a political party, so I do not. I am an Independent. With regard to Ron Paul, I am a 2nd generation supporter. I personally have supported him for over 25 years and I do so, because of his voting record and strong stance for the Constitution and individual liberty. Liberty, by the way, is not a concept reserved to the Libertarian party, or any party for that matter.

Russellk30
02-10-2008, 03:24 AM
Thunderbolt, or Jennifer, whichever it is, threads such as this one, whose sole intent is to recruit members to a political party, have nothing to do with the purpose of Grassroots Central. That is why it was moved, just like a similar thread was moved the other day on the Republican party. The Moderators are far from perfect, but we do our best to be fair.

As far as you saying that we do not allow threads about libertarianism to be in Grassroots Central, are you honestly going to sit here and state that discussions about individual liberty are not allowed in GC or on the board? Nothing could be further than the truth. If they are constructive threads dealing with getting Ron Paul elected, they certainly deserve to be on GC. If however they are issue threads that do not relate to grassroots action toward the election, then they most likely are moved to the appropriate subforum.

Look, I realize that sometimes it's tough to see a thread you started, moved, but if we don't try to keep some semblance of organization on the forum, no one could find anything and the threads would be flying so fast off of the front page of Grassroots Central, that no one would be able to keep up. The admins have done their best to layout this forum, with all its various subforums. But, if any of you guys have a better idea, then I'm sure they'll be more than happy to hear your suggestions. There's a subforum for suggestions too and it's right here, "Forum Feedback and Ideas": http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=193

Though I do have to agree that this forum has been moslty fair, I think its kind of funny that in the sticky section of grassroots there is a thread titled "Take Over the GOP! Join the Republican Liberty Caucus, Ron Paul is a Member!" This has nothing to do with getting RP elected president! I am going to start a thread and replace Republican with Libertarian and see how far it gets. Ron Paul is a member of the Libertarian Party after all.:D

LibertyEagle
02-10-2008, 04:01 AM
Well Russell, you might have a point there about the Liberty Caucus, although it's not the same thing as the Republican party. Point taken though and you're right. I'll unstick it and move it, right now.

tommyzDad
02-10-2008, 06:34 AM
If they've such a hard-on for spreading the Liberterian message, then they should join us!! "Come into the light, LP!" :p

gte811i
02-10-2008, 08:07 AM
It is completely possible to turn the Republican party around, there are many examples. I'd be willing to bet money that before say 1890 most of us would have joined/voted the Democratic Party, yes before 1890 the Democratic party was the party of small government, sound money, keep the federal government out of peoples lives. The switch came very quickly. Look at the neo-cons, mostly they were liberals that then joined the republican party and took it over almost over-night.

My personal opinion, if running for office, stay Republican, when voting, vote whichever is more constitutional.

The only a couple of instances exist where a third-party is realistically viable. 1) A massive landslide by either major party, thus turning the it into a one-party system, making one party almost irrelevant and thus making a third-party more viable. 2) At the presidential level a massive dislike between the two parties (a situation like '92). This election I believe a McCain, Clinton election would set the stage for a third-party run. However, for this to happen the person running has to have lots of money, and the 25-30 mill. for Paul ain't gonna cut it. He would need something like 500 million+. Not that I like Bloomberg, but a McCain, Clinton race would help Bloomberg. With an Obama, McCain race, forget third-party no chance at winning.

Perot almost did it in '92, but he had a lot of money, and a lot of support. If fact, I would argue that his run in '92 set the stage for the Republican Revolution in '94. The republicans saw the desire of the people and changed their party. I do honestly believe if he hadn't pulled out and then back in-he would come close to winning and would have won states.

jm1776
02-10-2008, 08:55 AM
Well Russell, you might have a point there about the Liberty Caucus, although it's not the same thing as the Republican party. Point taken though and you're right. I'll unstick it and move it, right now.

Please no!

The Republican Liberty Caucus is, can be, should be the interface between Ron Paul Republicans and the Libertarian Party. My personal choice is changing the GOP by showing up. At the same time I respect the opinions of my Libertarian friends who want no part of it. Let's make the Republican Liberty Caucus where we both meet to organize support for Freedom candidates regardless of Party.