Don't Take Tickets from Romney

[Ron Paul Fan Club]

It seems like a growing number of people think it is OK to take tickets from Romney and then vote for Ron Paul.

I disagree. I see it as a matter of integrity. And isn't that what we like about Ron Paul, in comparison to other candidates?

But, even if you are not concerned about integrity, be concerned about the results of the Straw Poll. Be concerned that if there if there is anything about the final vote that comes under question, Romney can always verify the number of tickets he gave away.

As was mentioned in another thread, and as I just read in an article, Ron Paul is the talk of Iowa and in Ames this week. He is "rising from relative obscurity to growing popularity". There's a chance that he could win. Don't mess that up by taking tickets from Romney.

If there is anyone who wants to hack the results, don't make it easier for them! That would be stupid!!!

If there are those trying to make sure that Ron Paul does not win, there could even be someone here urging us to take tickets from Romney. Wouldn't that be a perfect strategy? We vote for him, the vote is rigged, Romney "wins", he can certify the number of tickets he gave away.

"But for freedom to really work, you have to have a moral society." ---Ron Paul, at Austin fundraiser on May 20.

[Kuldebar]

It certainly doesn't seem honorable, but, I wonder...are people who take the tickets taking a pledge to support Romney or otherwise obligated?

Are the tickets a gift with strings attached?

[DjLoTi]

If people are willing to die for Ron Paul, I think taking a $35 ticket from Mitt falls in the line of 'ok'. lol

[billm317]

I don't know how it all works, but I don't see how Romney can verify how many tickets he's given out... only the number of tickets he bought. The number of tickets he's bought is irrelevant to the outcome.

[JaylieWoW]

It seems like a growing number of people think it is OK to take tickets from Romney and then vote for Ron Paul.

I disagree. I see it as a matter of integrity. And isn't that what we like about Ron Paul, in comparison to other candidates?

But, even if you are not concerned about integrity, be concerned about the results of the Straw Poll. Be concerned that if there if there is anything about the final vote that comes under question, Romney can always verify the number of tickets he gave away.

As was mentioned in another thread, and as I just read in an article, Ron Paul is the talk of Iowa and in Ames this week. He is "rising from relative obscurity to growing popularity". There's a chance that he could win. Don't mess that up by taking tickets from Romney.

If there is anyone who wants to hack the results, don't make it easier for them! That would be stupid!!!

If there are those trying to make sure that Ron Paul does not win, there could even be someone here urging us to take tickets from Romney. Wouldn't that be a perfect strategy? We vote for him, the vote is rigged, Romney "wins", he can certify the number of tickets he gave away.

"But for freedom to really work, you have to have a moral society." ---Ron Paul, at Austin fundraiser on May 20.

DITTO THAT... with a capital D!!

[ARealConservative]

feh.

If Mitt had any integrity I would be right there with ya.


If anybody has any doubts about what to do, replay in your mind the Sunday debate when Mitt tried to interupt Ron Paul with his 9/11 nonsense. Notice he turns to Guliani hoping for some support.


Bush won in 1999 with 7,600 votes or so. He sold 10,000.

That's how we roll.

[FSP-Rebel]

I don't think it's a problem but we shouldn't be advertising it. Keep this 'under the radar,' just the way the MSM tries to keep us.

[Kuldebar]

What if Romney has people show up at Paul appearances to grab up the tickets that the Ron Paul 2008 campaign is giving out? I could see that hurting a lot.

The key is this: are you signing a pledge or obligation to vote a certain way at the Straw Poll?

Don't get me wrong, integrity matters. But, if the big campaigns are throwing money around by giving out tickets left and right...they deserve what they get.

[libertarianguy]

mph

[david.griffus]

I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Sleazy is as sleazy does. Who ever said there is any integrity in politics?

[paulitics]

I think Romeny is requiring a pledge.

[Kuldebar]

Folks: the tickets and where you got the tickets can not be used as an audit check on the Straw Poll Votes in any way.

[Kuldebar]

I think Romeny is requiring a pledge.


If there is a pledge, I'd say integrity would disallow the tactic of using the tickets.

[DjLoTi]

while it's rude and dishonest to conspire against mitt to steal his votes explicitly, the people need to show him that polls cannot be bought

Good point.

[angelatc]

Are the tickets a gift with strings attached?

I just saw the flier on another site. It clearly says that if you agree to vote for Mitt, theyll pay your way.

[angelatc]

I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Sleazy is as sleazy does. Who ever said there is any integrity in politics?


That's really not one of our planks, now is it?

[Syren123]

I say let your conscience be your guide.

[Syren123]

I think Romeny is requiring a pledge.

Kinda like the pledge the president takes to uphold the Constitution?

[fj45lvr]

you have to laugh at the whole "racket" anyhow....I mean fundraiser for the GOP of Iowa... it always comes down to money in some way or another and in this case you have to buy your vote (that hopefully is recorded without any verification)....people are too cheap to spend $35?? that's what it costs to take the family to tacobell for lunch...

What exactly do you partake of besides the poll for $35 anyhow??

[xita]

Look - I'm sure the people who will take mitt up on his offer are college students. I would have done it at that age and been proud of it.

Now . . . Not so much. But I'm not gonna tell people not to do it.

People are free to do what they want . . . That's the whole point of this campaign, right?

[ARealConservative]

If a bunch of people want to send Mitt money to get elected, and he uses that money to buy votes don't come crying to me if someone took your Mitt buys the election money and voted for someone else.

Maybe that will teach you to stop sending money into politicians that buy votes.

[jlink7]

It certainly doesn't seem honorable, but, I wonder...are people who take the tickets taking a pledge to support Romney or otherwise obligated?

Are the tickets a gift with strings attached?

Yes, my mom was invited to go with one of these "free" tickets, but she told me that in order to ride the bus and get the ticket she had to sign something that said she agreed to vote for Romney.

[Wendi]

I thought I read that the votes will be tallied by paper scantron type ballots - the voter bubbles in his/her choice and the machine counts them. If there is any question, there IS a paper trail that can be verified. So the number of tickets given away is completely irrelevant.

For the record, I agree that it is wrong to take tickets on pretense just as a matter of integrity. BUT at the same time, the candidates cannot legally make voting for them a requirement of getting the free ticket, can they?

[Kuldebar]

I thought I read that the votes will be tallied by paper scantron type ballots - the voter bubbles in his/her choice and the machine counts them. If there is any question, there IS a paper trail that can be verified. So the number of tickets given away is completely irrelevant.

For the record, I agree that it is wrong to take tickets on pretense just as a matter of integrity. BUT at the same time, the candidates cannot legally make voting for them a requirement of getting the free ticket, can they?

I agree. There's nothing legally binding by signing that pledge.

But, as you well know, legal and moral are often two different things.

[Matt Collins]

It comes to the fundamental question: "does the end justify the means"?


I would personally like to think everyone will play fair, but this is the big league and it's dirty, and nasty, and corrupt. Should we sink to the lowest common denominator and be pragmatic and do what it takes to get the job done increasing our chances of winning, or should we hold ourselves to higher lofty ideals and morals (even though the competition will not) just to prove a point even though in doing so we might lose thus causing more harm to our country by NOT having Dr. Paul in office?

[jpa]

this campaign wins on ideals and morals. period

[Sematary]

I don't believe there is any obligation to vote for the candidate who gave you the tickets. They are hoping their "generosity" will turn into a vote but that is no guarantee.

[Kuldebar]

I don't believe there is any obligation to vote for the candidate who gave you the tickets. They are hoping their "generosity" will turn into a vote but that is no guarantee.

Read back a few posts, it appears there is a pledge you sign stating you will cast a vote for Romney. Of course, it isn't legally binding or in any way enforceable...but the conscience holds sway and each person must decide.

[tmg19103]

Do what ya got to do to vote for RP. Do WHATEVER it takes for you personally. Romney's tickets are bought and paid for by Wall Street hedge fund money that has only one thing in mind - making the rich richer while destroying the middle class.

[sickmint79]

i would feel no qualms about taking his tickets. i'd listen to what he had to say but i would vote for who i believed in. if you believe everyone he pays to get in should vote for him aren't you saying that the election can simply be bought?

[4Horsemen]

It seems like a growing number of people think it is OK to take tickets from Romney and then vote for Ron Paul.

I disagree. I see it as a matter of integrity. And isn't that what we like about Ron Paul, in comparison to other candidates?

But, even if you are not concerned about integrity, be concerned about the results of the Straw Poll. Be concerned that if there if there is anything about the final vote that comes under question, Romney can always verify the number of tickets he gave away.

As was mentioned in another thread, and as I just read in an article, Ron Paul is the talk of Iowa and in Ames this week. He is "rising from relative obscurity to growing popularity". There's a chance that he could win. Don't mess that up by taking tickets from Romney.

If there is anyone who wants to hack the results, don't make it easier for them! That would be stupid!!!

If there are those trying to make sure that Ron Paul does not win, there could even be someone here urging us to take tickets from Romney. Wouldn't that be a perfect strategy? We vote for him, the vote is rigged, Romney "wins", he can certify the number of tickets he gave away.

"But for freedom to really work, you have to have a moral society." ---Ron Paul, at Austin fundraiser on May 20.

Thanks a lot, now the media is going to blame Mitt's loss on RP supporters stealing his tickets. Please don't feed the damn trolls anymore, thanx.

[richard1984]

People are free to do what they want . . . That's the whole point of this campaign, right?

Absolutely not! That's a gross misinterpretation of our mission--which is to uphold the law of the land: The Constitution. Being allowed to smoke herb (for example) is totally different than being allowed to lie, cheat, or steal. Know what I'm sayin'?

[paulitics]

I think it is up to the individual. I guaranteed people will change their votes when they get to the place no matter what. Why? Its human nature. People are free loaders, they don't give a crap about Mitt Romney and ethics, unless they are die hard supporters. I looked at the polls. 35% have not made up their mind yet. Mitt Romney knows this. He is trying to get some sort of psychological agreement by getting them to sign piece of paper.

People like free. 35.00 is a rip off to vote. There will be free loaders, there will be other guys doing it to us. Its a circus. On a personal level, I would not do it because of my principals. But I can't change human nature. And normal every day people will be tempted by the free ride.

Just want to add, we should not be doing the encouraging. Its up to the voters.

[winston84]

This is a tough issue, because you have to consider that Ron Paul is making the same offer. If you look at the official RP website it says...


The presidential campaign of Ron Paul (R-Tex) has a block of tickets available for any Iowan resident who wishes to vote in the upcoming straw poll for Ron Paul.

So no, I would discourage using Romney's tickets because I certainly wouldn't want the opposition doing the same. If you need an Ames ticket just get one from Ron Paul.

[richard1984]

I think that we (as Ron Paul supporters) should try our very best to pull our own weight. That's what we are going to have to do if Ron Paul wins. We can't all become a bunch of pickpockets.

Just leave Mitt alone. I would be ashamed if he paid my way into the Straw Poll.

I feel slimy just thinking about it. There ain't no way I'd ever want to be a hair on Mitten's slick, greasy head.
bleh..Yuck!

[Bob Cochran]

I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Sleazy is as sleazy does. Who ever said there is any integrity in politics?
NOT the way to go.

[UtahApocalypse]

Someone posted a article about Bush and the straw poll. In the article it pointed out that Bush had given 10,000 tickets. He received around 6000 votes. So where did the other 4,000 go? votes for OTHER candidates. We only have so many tickets available from the campaign, if this is done to us it will hurt much, much more than other campaigns. But, It will happen.... yet again you all want to play nice. Make sure we are all PC and great. THIS IS WAR! you all still don't get that... yes playing dirty sucks ass and is wrong.... but we will not win by playing fair.

[dsentell]

I agree with UtahApocalypse.

Keep in mind that this is a REVOLUTION. We are fighting our battle with our hard earned dimes and quarters facing an army with an unending supply of millions (even billions) of dollars. We must use every weapon we can get our hands on.

We only have one chance. If we lose, we lose everything -- our freedom, our liberty, our country.

So, pull out all the stops. Fight like you are fighting for your life, your liberty, your country. Because you are.

[1000-points-of-fright]

Keep in mind, this is not a real election. It's really just an overblown media poll. So accepting a ticket from one candidate and voting for another isn't vote tampering or election fraud. Think of it as messing with Frank Lutz.

[monotony]

If the choice is between taking Mitt's tickets and voting, or not going, take the tickets and vote. Not voting out of some kind of moral principle may feel good to you on the inside, but it is worse for everyone else in the country. The moral thing is to take the tickets if you otherwise can't afford it.

[american.swan]

I agree. There's nothing legally binding by signing that pledge.

But, as you well know, legal and moral are often two different things.

Question. I wonder if it would be illegal because it isn't A REAL ELECTION. This is a fundraiser, not the real election. so maybe it would be legal to have people sign the contract to vote for said individual. Can't scream election fraud when it isn't really an election; only can scream fraud.

[Thom1776]

Let him reap what he sows.

[Richandler]

I think it's funny that the topic creator sees taking tickets from Romney and voting for Paul as a matter of integrity. But simply put. Giving away free tickets and putting people on a bus to the event is also a matter of bad integrity too.

[Kuldebar]

Question. I wonder if it would be illegal because it isn't A REAL ELECTION. This is a fundraiser, not the real election. so maybe it would be legal to have people sign the contract to vote for said individual. Can't scream election fraud when it isn't really an election; only can scream fraud.

Well, I see what you are saying, but any contract by definition has to have a measure of validation, there would be no way for a pledge to be "validated" or audited or otherwise assessed on a per pledge basis.

Also, a pledge is a somewhat loose term but I have never seen it used as a legally binding contract. Everything I am seeing categorizes a pledge as a moral, not a legal commitment. It also depends on what you are actually signing. ;)

Ron Paul’s supporters are actively encouraging Iowa voters to take advantage of Mitt Romney’s offers of free transportation to the Iowa Straw Poll in Ames on Saturday and then, once they are there, to vote for Mr. Paul.

“Some say if Mitt is willing to bus Iowans to Ames for the straw poll, they should take him up on his offer!” says a flier in Iowa and on the Internet in advance of the straw poll for the Republican presidential candidates. The flier says that after riding the Romney bus to Ames, and allowing the Romney campaign to pay one’s $35 entry fee, Iowans should then carefully weigh their options and “they may decide to vote for Ron Paul.”

The flier is topped with a banner that says “2008 Ron Paul News,” but Jesse Benton, a campaign spokesman, said it was the handiwork of independent supporters over whom the campaign had no control. “We can’t tell our supporters what to do or not do,” Mr. Benton said, adding that the campaign did not want to get “entangled” with federal finance regulations involving potential in-kind contributions.

But he conceded that infiltrating the Romney bus could certainly help Mr. Paul. It is his first visible attempt at converting his popularity online into success offline, which, alas, is where it counts.


Some quasi-related links...
When is a pledge legally binding? (http://www.nsfre.org/ka/ka-3.cfm?content_item_id=1229&folder_id=900)

Sponsor Suit on No-Buy Pledges Allowed (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DE3DB133DF93AA35750C0A9609482 60)

No More Pledge Cards (http://www.panaslinzy.com/pages/dollars_0101_06.html)

[Jennifer Reynolds]

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