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View Full Version : How to derail McCain and get a brokered convention




Dennis Peterson
02-09-2008, 02:41 PM
This is not as simple as it might seem at first, and some inaccurate rumors have flown around the Net, so hear me out.

A person can be a citizen of the United States without being eligible to be President. Schwarznegger, for example, since he was born a non-citizen.

The Constitution says:
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President -- The Constitution of the United States, Article II Section 1

The key phrase here is "natural born citizen." There is some dispute about what that means. Some people say it applies to anyone who is a citizen at birth by virtue of his parents. Others say you have to actually be born on U.S. soil. The courts have not ruled on the issue. It's an unsettled legal question, according to Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen

McCain was born on a U.S. military base on foreign soil. According to the State Department, a military base is not U.S. soil for purposes of citizenship:

"Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth."
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf (page 6)

Therefore, and the wiki says this too, the question of whether McCain is eligible to be President is an open legal question.

Now, I suspect that were the courts to rule on this question, they would rule in McCain's favor. It's not a sure thing though. However the court rules, opposing campaigns have an opportunity here.

If someone were to initiate a lawsuit against McCain, on the grounds that he is not eligible to be president, and that lawsuit were to get sufficient publicity, then voters and delegates would have a decision to make:

Does the Republican Party want to nominate a candidate who, possibly, would be disqualified by the courts on the eve of the General Election?

A classic FUD strategy, basically. If the court were to rule against McCain, that would be a bonus. But fear of the Democrats taking the whole thing by default, that's the main point here.

Who should do the lawsuit is another question. Another campaign would be ideal. A private group would work too, if the courts accept it has standing to sue, and it can get sufficient publicity. Even if the courts throw them out for lacking standing, the publicity would blaze the way for a campaign to do it. Ron Paul doing it would be the least favorable, since whoever does it is likely to suffer some blowback.

But before the National Convention, somebody should do it.

txrep
02-09-2008, 02:46 PM
Congress passed legislation in 1790 stating that children of U.S. citizens born outside the U.S. shall be considered natural born. (George Romney, presidential candidate and father of former candidate Mitt Romney, was born in Mexico to U.S. citizens.) The Supreme Court has not had the opportunity to rule whether that legislation is constitutional. The Court has held that children born in the United States to non-citizens are natural born citizens. No one has seriously considered challenging McCain's eligibility, and I doubt even a legitimate court battle would progress very far.

One is not considered a natural born citizen if born outside the United States, to non-citizens, and who later go through the naturalization process to become citizens. An example is California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

The Fourteenth Amendment states ... "all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States." The United States includes its territories. (Presidential candidate Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona, when it was a territory and not yet a state.) McCain was not naturalized, so he must fit the other definition, "born." Those would be my arguments.

Dennis Peterson
02-09-2008, 03:40 PM
That's one side of the argument. From wiki:

One side of the argument interprets the Constitution as meaning that a person either is born in the United States or is a naturalized citizen. Thus, to be a "natural born citizen," a person must be born in the United States; otherwise, they are citizens by law and are naturalized. To others, the statute that grants citizenship to American children born overseas exempts them from the term "naturalized" and thus, as with the 1790 law, they are to be considered "natural born citizens" eligible for the Presidency.

noztnac
02-09-2008, 03:46 PM
A person who is a dependent of a US citizen is a US citizen no matter where they were born.

Dennis Peterson
02-09-2008, 04:53 PM
Nobody's saying he's not a citizen.

gaazn
02-09-2008, 11:58 PM
mccain is not a natural born citizen

Ricochet
02-10-2008, 03:05 AM
mccain is not a natural born citizen

According to Title 8 section 1401 of the U.S. Code he is.....

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html

Dennis Peterson
02-10-2008, 10:28 AM
Thanks Ricochet, I think that about puts this idea to bed.

BlueCalico
02-22-2008, 11:29 PM
THE CONVENTION DOES NOT HAVE TO BE BROKERED! We can overturn Rules at the State Conventions. Google - [your state] Republican Convention. Look for your state information at ronpaul2008.com, States.

STUDY and LEARN!

slacker921
02-22-2008, 11:34 PM
This has to be the 10th time this has been brought up on this forum. It's old news and it doesn't hold water. Just for kicks, go ask on an Obama forum if they think this would keep McCain from being President. Please.

Young Paleocon
03-27-2008, 01:32 AM
Since at least Romney has freed his delegates, is it not feasible that the RP people gain delegate positions through the conventions then vote Paul at the National Convention? I think this plan is very possible considering Romney won many NW and caucus states that Paul did exceptionally well in.

qh4dotcom
03-27-2008, 05:33 PM
According to Title 8 section 1401 of the U.S. Code he is.....

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html

That law was passed when McCain was 16....the laws that apply are the ones in place before McCain was born since the Constitution prohibits ex post de facto laws

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_an_ex_post_facto_law

Here's government proof McCain is not eligible

From the state.gov government website

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf

It says there

"Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth."

As such, it McCain is a citizen by law (because his parents are U.S.) but not by birth, and is thus not allowed by the Constitution to run for President.

Notice that there are no exceptions to that rule...no exceptions for a child whose parents are US citizens...and the 14th amendment was the law in place at McCain's birth

qh4dotcom
03-27-2008, 05:35 PM
Bump

mediahasyou
03-27-2008, 06:21 PM
They don't listen to the constitution now. What makes you think that things will change tomorrow?