Just curious, how can Christians be for pro-war candidate?

[plb]

Just curious since I'm not a religious type person but how is it that Christians can be for a candidate who is pro-war? I always thought Christians were supposed to be against killing?

[Heather in WI]

Just war theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war

I am a Christian. I am not a pacifist. But, I do not believe Iraq fits into the definition of a just war, and therefore would not support any candidate who believes the Iraq War is justified.

[fabijo]

Just curious since I'm not a religious type person but how is it that Christians can be for a candidate who is pro-war?

I am a Christian and I have the same question. I kept getting spam from some Craig Huey guy acting as though he is the authority on what candidate is good for a Christian. I asked him the same question, but he has never responded to me.

[chiplitfam]

Because they hold to the false just war theory that most Protestant church's hold to. If you would like to discuss it further send private message.

[tomcat]

Because being Christian is about what you feel, not what the Bible really says. Duh.

[chiplitfam]

Because being Christian is about what you feel, not what the Bible really says. Duh.

I hope that was a joke.

[fabijo]

Because being Christian is about what you feel, not what the Bible really says. Duh.

LOL. That's the way people act.

[ladyliberty3]

Because most people are Christian in name only and listen to the false sheperds that are leading many astray. If the people who claim to be Christians really were, our country wouldn't be in the shape it is. If you want proof, just look at Bush!!!!

[NEPA_Revolution]

Sheeple > Christian

I am Catholic, used to support the war (Watched FNC too much) and now that I have been on here I feel like an idiot for ever saying I agreed with Bush.

[chiplitfam]

QUOTE=ladyliberty3;1226163]Because most people are Christian in name only and listen to the false sheperds that are leading many astray. If the people who claim to be Christians really were, our country wouldn't be in the shape it is. If you want proof, just look at Bush!!!![/QUOTE]

Amen! Chip

[Staupostek]

It's the same way they go around talking about the sanctity of marriage and yet are okay with divorce. Yeah, they say it's not ok but they aren't in the streets fighting to ban it or campaigning on banning it. In America you can call yourself what you want and then define it however you like.

[tamor]

remember the Crusades ?

[Jeremy]

Not everyone looks at the Iraq war the same way

[ButchHowdy]

Sheeple > Christian

I am Catholic, used to support the war (Watched FNC too much) and now that I have been on here I feel like an idiot for ever saying I agreed with Bush.

That's okay . . . just give us 10 Hail Rons and donate!

[Dr.3D]

Not everyone looks at the Iraq war the same way

I'm pretty sure most of the people who are over there fighting in it, see it the same way.

[RonRules]

Because they're gullible to believe that stuff they'll also believe war is good for them.

Dump that nonsense and you'll have the greatest mental liberation you've ever had.

[JohnM]

Because being Christian is about what you feel, not what the Bible really says. Duh.

Good joke. Certainly true of a lot of the Christians I know.


The serious answer is pretty much what Heather in Wisconsin says.

Very few Christians are pacifists.

Equally, very few know anything about the just war theory. (Needless to say, many of those who do know about it, do not accept it.)

And of course, in the end of the day, as tomcat says, a lot of them just go with what they feel.

(I am not a pacifist, and while I don't take the just war theory as being a doctrine to be believed, I do believe that it offers pretty good guidance for the realities of the world we live in.)

[virgil47]

Any of you gigantic psuedo christians ever hear of an "eye for an eye". If not try reading your bible again.

[Crickett]

Any of you gigantic psuedo christians ever hear of an "eye for an eye". If not try reading your bible again.

That is the most ridiculous statement in the whole thread. Iraq never did ONE thing to the US. Nothing. No eye poking. Jesus said he had heard it said, an eye for an eye, but HE said turn the other cheek.

[fabijo]

Any of you gigantic psuedo christians ever hear of an "eye for an eye". If not try reading your bible again.

That was meant as a restriction, since people have a tendency to go overboard with revenge. Plus the eye for an eye deal was handled by a third party (Levites), not the individual offended.

[Rintrah]

A life time of pro-war government propaganda?

[homah]

They aren't really Christians.

[virgil47]

Try again Cricket and try reading the entire bible next time. As for Iraq never doing anything to us, well, niether did Nazi Germany. Are you suggesting that we should not have attacked the Germans in world war 2? I certainly hope that is not your position. Please think before you respond next time.:)

[MichGuy59]

Whatever theory you might hold to concerning 9/11. Whether that it was committed solely by Osama and nineteen young Arabs, or if you believe our government was complicit in allowing it to happen, or whether you believe our government was complicit in making it happen.

One overwhelming truth of that tragedy was the escalated tragedy of an exponentially increased hatred of Muslims around the world by Americans. This was especially true of Christians, as it unleashed religious fear of holy war, or the ushering in of potential Armageddon.

Our government played on this fear to illegally invade Afghanistan and Iraq. Sorry to say for many Americans, and unfortunately because of their religious views, many Christian Americans, it is all too difficult to realize we were duped by our very own government into believing a lie regarding these Muslim nations. It’s easier to keep believing the lie that these “evil doers” are out to get us, than believe our government lied and may be continuing to do so. (as a proof text just study how the German people reacted after they knew the Nazi government was perpetrating mass murder against the Jews, communists, etc., They kept supporting the government lies, as the truth was far too horrible to consider.)

Playing on those continued fears of the “islamo fascist Muslims” many Christians believe we must carry on this war with vigilance to the very end, with honor, no matter what. That’s why they won’t vote for Ron Paul, the “isolationist” they want a real “war hero” in John McCain. After all he has promised to get Osama don’t you know?

To get to the truth, a person must be able to throw off all prejudice and preconceived beliefs and just look at the empirical evidence. For most people that is far too scary an endeavor. Seeking the truth, once you find it, changes who you are forever. This is even more so with Christians. I know, I just a short time ago believed the way most of them do, let’s keep the war going, let’s get those Muslims. Fortunately I discovered the truth and also discovered Ron Paul.

[homah]

Try again Cricket and try reading the entire bible next time. As for Iraq never doing anything to us, well, niether did Nazi Germany. Are you suggesting that we should not have attacked the Germans in world war 2? I certainly hope that is not your position. Please think before you respond next time.:)

Why are we not in Darfur, then? Why Iraq? Hmm, I wonder...

[virgil47]

homah, has anyone in Darfur even hinted that they have weapons of mass destruction? Hmmm, I certainly have not heard of even a hint, have you? The fact that we did not find any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq has NO meaning. The FACT that Saddam claimed to have them and the FACT that he used them on the Kurds was justification enough to go into Iraq. However after invading and taking out Saddam and then finding that he had either used up all of his weapons of mass destruction or sent them to another country for safe keeping we should have immediately disengaged and let the locals sort out their own problems. Saddam's insistance on saying that he had these weapons appears to have been aimed at keeping Iran from invading Iraq. Unfortunately for him he was too successful and convinced the world that he had them and this precipetated our invasion. I don't fault our government for the invasion but I do think that our troops should have been quickly removed once we had established that Saddam was blowing smoke.

[Alabama Supporter]

Alot of these gullible Christians still think there was WMD there like Huckabee. Alot of them think the Iraqi people were living under tyranny and deserved to be "liberated". Many of them also think the Iraqi's want us to be there.

The government has perpetuated these falsehoods, and the people are ignorant to the facts. I hope they continue to wake up to this.

[ambiguousscion]

Alot of these gullible Christians still think there was WMD there like Huckabee. Alot of them think the Iraqi people were living under tyranny and deserved to be "liberated". Many of them also think the Iraqi's want us to be there.

The government has perpetuated these falsehoods, and the people are ignorant to the facts. I hope they continue to wake up to this.

Agreed, it is not that they "like war" (although I'm sure there are a selection of those who do), but you have to figure out if "not doing anything" is worse than war. Many Christians have been told that not stopping Saddam would be worse than stopping him, afterwards using the logic that he was killing his own people and thus we were justified in removing him from power. Many do not understand that we are the ones who gave him weapons that he used against Iran, these same weapons were used against his own country. The problem is a lack of information and understanding about the issues. It is a lot to wade through and most people, well intended as they may be, don't know enough about the topic to make a good decision.

The trouble is that diplomacy is not talked about enough or other strategies. War should be the last option on the table (Just War Theory states this)... but only the last option. Unfortunately many who like war are prone to see it as a first option.

[Redcard]

Christians are for pro-war candidates because they believe that we are in the end times. Why do you think Left Behind is so popular? Why do you think even the Christians here are talking about Mccain or Huck being the anti-christ?

They want the end of the world. They want the Tribulation. The Death Cult that Christianity has become finds that a) We must help Israel at all costs and B) the end of the world brings Jesus back.

There ya go.

[scandinaviany3]

It unfortunately a problem of too many christians that get used to following blindly a pastor, leader. They will be sheep but not question if the leader is following their true master, others think the world is soon to end because of how bad things are getting and cant believe that people within the US have anything to do with evil behavior. They again dont challenge internal authority and expect God above to take care of them rather than do their job of being involved. Its all around confused teaching and followers that look only for morality and goodness and faith to be spoken. Thus a Reagan is there natural choice in the past. Today probably huckabee will come from behind and pass mccain for the same reason. They will believe that if a man will speak the word of God and care for others he must be the best choice.

Sad...sad..sad...very easy to trick them unless someone points out deception on the part of the others in reguards to serious faith issues, lieing, stealing, cheating, abuse, drugs, sexual misbehaviors, and other anti christian behaviors.

Morality of a leader and speaking about God is what they dig...plane and simple.

If Ron would have done this. In every state in the south and midwest he would have picked up 5-10 points in votes.

[qh4dotcom]

Just curious since I'm not a religious type person but how is it that Christians can be for a candidate who is pro-war? I always thought Christians were supposed to be against killing?

Because Christians who voted for pro-war candidates like McCain and Huckabee are hypocrites...a hypocrite is someone who thinks and acts differently....if the pro-war Christians really believed in the commandment "Thou shalt not kill", then they should act that way and vote for a candidate who will not tolerate killing and war.

[Ayse]

Most religious people are hypocrites, that's how.

[m72mc]

Just curious since I'm not a religious type person but how is it that Christians can be for a candidate who is pro-war? I always thought Christians were supposed to be against killing?

they are Christian in though only, not in actions.

[ambiguousscion]

Christians are for pro-war candidates because they believe that we are in the end times. Why do you think Left Behind is so popular? Why do you think even the Christians here are talking about Mccain or Huck being the anti-christ?

They want the end of the world. They want the Tribulation. The Death Cult that Christianity has become finds that a) We must help Israel at all costs and B) the end of the world brings Jesus back.

There ya go.

...Kind of... many do support Israel for this reason. It's called "Pre-Millennial Dispensationalism" in which they believe that "Israel" is literally "Israel the Nation" throughout Scripture and in eschatology (End Times). They will usually use passages to support this, suggesting that you will be cursed if you don't bless Israel (the nation). Pat Robertson is on board with this doctrine. Many traditional "Reformed Christians" believe that Israel, in the New Testament and beyond, theologically and in the eyes of God is "The Church", not the nation/land of Israel, thus their is no theological support to be "friends" with Israel the nation, rather be friends with everyone. After all, the message of Christ is not about land and territories on the planet, but about escaping the righteous judgment of God. Those who are of Christ are in His Church (Israel of God).

[virgil47]

Some of you folks really need to read the bible! The commandment that says you shalt not kill is not talking about war or self defense it is talking about murder! If you cannot make a distinction between the two then I hope that you or your loved ones are never threatened by a rapist or a killer. Or are you going to just roll over and say do me again please? Grow a pair and learn to take responsibilty for yourself and your loved ones. Many of you seem to be of the mind set that we should wait until the nukes start raining down on us BEFORE we take any action. That my freinds is isolationism at it finest. It could also be called the "Ostrich Policy".

[ambiguousscion]

Some of you folks really need to read the bible! The commandment that says you shalt not kill is not talking about war or self defense it is talking about murder! If you cannot make a distinction between the two then I hope that you or your loved ones are never threatened by a rapist or a killer. Or are you going to just roll over and say do me again please? Grow a pair and learn to take responsibilty for yourself and your loved ones. Many of you seem to be of the mind set that we should wait until the nukes start raining down on us BEFORE we take any action. That my freinds is isolationism at it finest. It could also be called the "Ostrich Policy".

I agree, this is well said, but it is not about reading the Bible, it is about understanding it.

[virgil47]

+10000

[t3rmin]

Christians are not generally blind pacifists; we claim to believe in just war. Indeed, when required for defense or protection, war is a necessary evil. But our default position is peace. When forced to depart from it, we long for its return. Or should.

So what is wrong with Christians in America today? We seem to care little about making informed moral and logical judgments. We'll consider anything but peace.

A bloody and expensive war rages, with no plans or goals or justification, and no end in sight. Almost 4000 of our soldiers are dead and so are tens of thousands of Iraqis. Both groups are God's creation, made in His image, and loved. It's a war against a weak, third-world country that never attacked us. A war which has measurably increased and strengthened Islamic extremism globally.

We have thrown our country's rich Christian morality and sense of justice to the wind. And for what? We have lost respect among both our friends and enemies on the world stage -- we're isolating ourselves. We continue to provoke and motivate our enemies over there, while our own borders remain wide open -- we're less safe. And we're spending/printing/borrowing to pay for the whole thing, leaving a heritage of debt slavery and lower standards of living for our children.

One thing has become apparent as I talk to Christians about the presidential candidates: we'll compromise on anything but this war. We'll vote for big-government, tax-and-spend, run-our-lives liberals. We'll support someone soft on abortion, immigration/border security, civil rights, and constitutionality. We'll choose adulterers, liars, and overlook all manner of moral and character defects.

Just so long as they support the war.

If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. - Romans 12:18

[ambiguousscion]

Christians are not generally blind pacifists; we claim to believe in just war. Indeed, when required for defense or protection, war is a necessary evil. But our default position is peace. When forced to depart from it, we long for its return. Or should.

So what is wrong with Christians in America today? We seem to care little about making informed moral and logical judgments. We'll consider anything but peace.

A bloody and expensive war rages, with no plans or goals or justification, and no end in sight. Almost 4000 of our soldiers are dead and so are tens of thousands of Iraqis. Both groups are God's creation, made in His image, and loved. It's a war against a weak, third-world country that never attacked us. A war which has measurably increased and strengthened Islamic extremism globally.

We have thrown our country's rich Christian morality and sense of justice to the wind. And for what? We have lost respect among both our friends and enemies on the world stage -- we're isolating ourselves. We continue to provoke and motivate our enemies over there, while our own borders remain wide open -- we're less safe. And we're spending/printing/borrowing to pay for the whole thing, leaving a heritage of debt slavery and lower standards of living for our children.

One thing has become apparent as I talk to Christians about the presidential candidates: we'll compromise on anything but this war. We'll vote for big-government, tax-and-spend, run-our-lives liberals. We'll support someone soft on abortion, immigration/border security, civil rights, and constitutionality. We'll choose adulterers, liars, and overlook all manner of moral and character defects.

Just so long as they support the war.

If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. - Romans 12:18

Agreed, and I don't mean to split hairs, but I think the Apostle Paul was not talking about war in this specific passage, but your point is well taken.

[ChickenHawk]

Some of you folks really need to read the bible! The commandment that says you shalt not kill is not talking about war or self defense it is talking about murder! If you cannot make a distinction between the two then I hope that you or your loved ones are never threatened by a rapist or a killer. Or are you going to just roll over and say do me again please? Grow a pair and learn to take responsibilty for yourself and your loved ones. Many of you seem to be of the mind set that we should wait until the nukes start raining down on us BEFORE we take any action. That my freinds is isolationism at it finest. It could also be called the "Ostrich Policy".


Very well said. I've always said that the definition of pacifism is "the belief, despite conclusive evidence to the contrary, that violence doesn't solve anything".

[AggieforPaul]

Just war theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war

I am a Christian. I am not a pacifist. But, I do not believe Iraq fits into the definition of a just war, and therefore would not support any candidate who believes the Iraq War is justified.

this.

[qh4dotcom]

Some of you folks really need to read the bible! The commandment that says you shalt not kill is not talking about war or self defense it is talking about murder! If you cannot make a distinction between the two then I hope that you or your loved ones are never threatened by a rapist or a killer. Or are you going to just roll over and say do me again please? Grow a pair and learn to take responsibilty for yourself and your loved ones. Many of you seem to be of the mind set that we should wait until the nukes start raining down on us BEFORE we take any action. That my freinds is isolationism at it finest. It could also be called the "Ostrich Policy".

Sorry but the Iraq war was not self-defense. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

If you really believe in the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" and the other commandment "Thou shalt not lie" then you should not be in favor of continuing a war initiated and based on lies....such as the weapons of mass destruction lies.

If you are so scared of nukes then go see my post

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1208308&postcount=4

and come back and tell me that you don't agree with it and why...and why you are more scared of bad people who are six thousand miles away than bad people in your neighborhood. I wouldn't be surprised if you can't disagree with me.

[deedles]

Say the name Jesus and have pro-Israel rhetoric and that's all you need to have the majority of unthinking Christians line up behind you.

[ChickenHawk]

If you really believe in the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" and the other commandment "Thou shalt not lie" then you should not be in favor of continuing a war initiated and based on lies....such as the weapons of mass destruction lies.

You are assuming that they lied when all evidence suggests they really believed what they were saying. You can't go back and call someone a liar when they firmly believed they were telling the truth. If they were lying you would think the French, the Russians, the Chinese or some other country would have said something. It seems they agreed with the Bush administration they just didn't want to go to war. Saying they lied is pure demagoguery.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Maybe it's because the have bought into a Western Christian Cult, not true Biblical faith.

[Redcard]

Maybe it's because the have bought into a Western Christian Cult, not true Biblical faith.

The "Christians" of modern US would look at Jesus, call him a socialist, a hippie, a fanatic, and they'd likely kill him again :P

[fj45lvr]

your question is all wrong.

Actually, you are not a "christian" just because you call yourself one. Therein lies the answer.

[Detonator]

Because most christians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMP-CQ_bvSM) are only Sunday christians. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMP-CQ_bvSM)

Plus christians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMP-CQ_bvSM) hate Muslims.

[Revolution9]

Because they hold to the false just war theory that most Protestant church's hold to. If you would like to discuss it further send private message.

Chicken. Lay it out here or your ideas are suspect for needing opacity to relay.

Randy

[ambiguousscion]

Because they hold to the false just war theory that most Protestant church's hold to. If you would like to discuss it further send private message.

What is up with bashing Just War Theory... this isn't the problem, it's actually Ron's reason for being against the war.

[Revolution9]

Because American Evangelicals get taught the Old testament side by side with the New Testament. The Old testament s to the War Ghawd Jehovah, a tribal war god of the early Pharisees. He demanded burnt flesh and torn bodies of life on his altar of sacrifice. What a stench and mess those ceremonies must have been.. Jesus came and abrogated the old laws. Hence the NEW Testament. The Bible as it s taught in Evangelical churches is anathema to itself. For an interesting aside I once found a Old Testament from 1864 full of original Dore copper engraved plates. They had beautiful engraved letters at the beginning of every chapter. I thought..great! I can scan a whole Dore alphabet into my computer. Unfortunately there were only four letters that began EVERY CHAPTER.. A-N-T-I..

Can you say AntiChrist. Now drop that old testament of the war ghawd on get on the Jesus train. The Pharisees and moneychangers ain't no different than central bankers and black robed judges. When I was an altar boy we NEVER EVER quoted or read from the Old testament and my church elders told me that was because Jesus came and turned over the old laws. Their was no need to pay someone for redemption of sin if that is the human condition as recognised by the divine.

Best
Randy

[ambiguousscion]

Because most christians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMP-CQ_bvSM) are only Sunday christians. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMP-CQ_bvSM)

Plus christians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMP-CQ_bvSM) hate Muslims.

Proof? I'm a Christian and I don't hate anybody... so stop with the rampant generalities.

[ambiguousscion]

Because American Evangelicals get taught the Old testament side by side with the New Testament. The Old testament s to the War Ghawd Jehovah, a tribal war god of the early Pharisees. He demanded burnt flesh and torn bodies of life on his altar of sacrifice. What a stench and mess those ceremonies must have been.. Jesus came and abrogated the old laws. Hence the NEW Testament. The Bible as it s taught in Evangelical churches is anathema to itself. For an interesting aside I once found a Old Testament from 1864 full of original Dore copper engraved plates. They had beautiful engraved letters at the beginning of every chapter. I thought..great! I can scan a whole Dore alphabet into my computer. Unfortunately there were only four letters that began EVERY CHAPTER.. A-N-T-I..

Can you say AntiChrist. Now drop that old testament of the war ghawd on get on the Jesus train. The Pharisees and moneychangers ain't no different than central bankers and black robed judges. When I was an altar boy we NEVER EVER quoted or read from the Old testament and my church elders told me that was because Jesus came and turned over the old laws. Their was no need to pay someone for redemption of sin if that is the human condition as recognised by the divine.

Best
Randy

Have you ever read the Bible? :rolleyes:

[Fox McCloud]

Ironically, the Bible is very Libertarian in nature...so it's a mystery to me why the Libertarian Party isn't dominated by them....*shrug*.

Anyway, killing is ok, as long as it's done in self-defense....if it's done in a way as to not defend something, then it's not ok.

People have just been duped by their Pastors, since they're listening to them more than they're listening to the Holy Spirit and reading their Bible.

[virgil47]

gh4dotcom, perhaps if you would read all of the posts in this thread you wouldn't be so prone to making stupid remarks. Also as for nukes when you were a child in school just how many times did your teachers have you get under your desks and hope the nukes didn't land near you. Being 60 I grew up during the cold war so please don't try to tell me about M.A.D. I was in high school when JFK was assasinated and I've witnesed more changes in our form of government then you can possibly imagine. When ANYONE claims to have weapons of mass destruction and threatens to use them I am all for taking them out. If you don't agree then it tells me you are a member of the "Ostrich Movement".

[moostraks]

The "Christians" of modern US would look at Jesus, call him a socialist, a hippie, a fanatic, and they'd likely kill him again :P

Wow...Redcard....+ a gazillion!!!:D

[qh4dotcom]

gh4dotcom, perhaps if you would read all of the posts in this thread you wouldn't be so prone to making stupid remarks. Also as for nukes when you were a child in school just how many times did your teachers have you get under your desks and hope the nukes didn't land near you. Being 60 I grew up during the cold war so please don't try to tell me about M.A.D. I was in high school when JFK was assasinated and I've witnesed more changes in our form of government then you can possibly imagine. When ANYONE claims to have weapons of mass destruction and threatens to use them I am all for taking them out. If you don't agree then it tells me you are a member of the "Ostrich Movement".

You didn't answer my question and I bet you didn't read my post.

Let me try again and let's see if you can show the people reading this thread that you are more of a straight talker than McCain or it's about as useless to ask you a question and get a straight answer as it is to ask him.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1227046&postcount=42

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1208308&postcount=4

You DIDN'T say why you are more scared of bad people who are six thousand miles away than the bad people in your neighborhood. I wouldn't be surprised if you can't disagree with me.

[Tratzman]

I get irked at the hypocrisy of Christians who claim to be for the sanctity of life for the unborn but don't believe the same way about their government killing innocent civilians in foreign countries. To me, it's even more heinous to kill a full fledged adult. Far more people are affected by the loss of an adult than unborn child. That grown person could be a dad, a brother, a son, a cousin, and friend to many people close to him/her. The killing of an unborn child, while a gruesome act in itself ,doesn't touch as many peoples' lives as the killing of an adult does.

I realize not all Christians have this attitude, but it seems as if a large majority do and that really bugs me.

Chad

[CJLauderdale4]

I am Christian, and i agree with Ron Paul. So many of my fellow churchgoers fall for the fearmongering that they will vote for war. Ironically, the Bible says we should have faith and fear no man. The MSM will scare voters to vote McMain.

[Revolution9]

Have you ever read the Bible? :rolleyes:

Better question.. Have you ever really read your Bible. Do you understand WHY there s an Old and a NEW Testament? What is your reasoning behind the separation? I stand behind what my Church in Canada taught me. It makes absolute sense.

Randy

[nbhadja]

Try again Cricket and try reading the entire bible next time. As for Iraq never doing anything to us, well, niether did Nazi Germany. Are you suggesting that we should not have attacked the Germans in world war 2? I certainly hope that is not your position. Please think before you respond next time.:)

You please think the next time you post.

Germany was really powerful. Iraq was really weak, had no navy, no weapons of mass destruction, nothing to do with 9-11, very small army,and no airforce.. Oh and they weren't invading random countries like Germany was....Hmm....but I wonder which country is invading random countries........cough USA cough

[nbhadja]

homah, has anyone in Darfur even hinted that they have weapons of mass destruction? Hmmm, I certainly have not heard of even a hint, have you? The fact that we did not find any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq has NO meaning. The FACT that Saddam claimed to have them and the FACT that he used them on the Kurds was justification enough to go into Iraq. However after invading and taking out Saddam and then finding that he had either used up all of his weapons of mass destruction or sent them to another country for safe keeping we should have immediately disengaged and let the locals sort out their own problems. Saddam's insistance on saying that he had these weapons appears to have been aimed at keeping Iran from invading Iraq. Unfortunately for him he was too successful and convinced the world that he had them and this precipetated our invasion. I don't fault our government for the invasion but I do think that our troops should have been quickly removed once we had established that Saddam was blowing smoke.

FACT- The only poweful weapons he had were the ones we gave him.

I guess you are a big government spender liberal; spending trillions on wars when your trillions in debt

[Molly1]

Just curious since I'm not a religious type person but how is it that Christians can be for a candidate who is pro-war? I always thought Christians were supposed to be against killing?

They are seriously deceived. They have a bunch of false prophets leading them, wolves in sheep's clothing--people who pretend to be of Christ but who are really the spirit of the antichrist.

Jesus warns us over and over about this.

Luke 21:8
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

[Dr.3D]

Because most christians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMP-CQ_bvSM) are only Sunday christians. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMP-CQ_bvSM)

Plus christians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMP-CQ_bvSM) hate Muslims.

I'm an everyday Christian, but I prefer to keep the Sabbath holy.
Sunday is not the Sabbath!

I don't hate Muslims.
As my Lord has said many times, "love your neighbor as you love yourself".

Some may now ask, who is my neighbor?
The answer to this question is, everybody.

[Molly1]

Christians better wake up!



22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

--Matthew 7

[moostraks]

Okay this right here is why threads are never accurate when you say sweeping generalities about Christians...I am a Christian but am diametrically opposed to killing...Period

In application non-resistance through time has saved many people possibly as much as resorting to violence. THe original church, as I have read, directly following Jesus' ministry was a non-resistant one until the church became more mainstream and thus accepting society ideals over their own beliefs.(There was some second guessing going on!!) So resorting to violence for self-saving purposes is not a guarantee you will be successful. It is a matter of the situation as to how effective the method chosen led to the final outcome of the situation.. Does this mean you cannot use your intellect when you are being assaulted...NO!!!

I find it rather interesting that being a pacifist is being spoken of so disdainfully...
The just war theory is an interesting way of legitimizing the use of violence upon another. I have survived several life threatening ordeals so do not assume I do not speak with any experience. Life will be what it will. It is fear that leads to the loss of control that leads to returning violence with violence. You stop seeing any alternative but to end the existence of the opposition.We all do what we feel we have to do, but those who do not stoop to the level of the aggressor should not be spoken of so contemptuously especially by Christians who claim Christ spoke of the ideal for which we should strive.


[Jesus said:] “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
—Matthew 5:38-48, NIV

[Molly1]

[Jesus said:] “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
—Matthew 5:38-48, NIV



There you go. Compare what Jesus said there to Huckabee's threat to the Iranians: "Prepare to see the gates of Hell."


Jesus, too, is a touchstone, giving us a true picture into the minds and hearts of men.

[Molly1]

Any of you gigantic psuedo christians ever hear of an "eye for an eye". If not try reading your bible again.

An 'eye for an eye' falls under the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant is now obsolete, brother. We are under the New Covenant of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, a covenant of forgiveness, love, and grace.




Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

[qh4dotcom]

Some of you folks really need to read the bible! The commandment that says you shalt not kill is not talking about war or self defense it is talking about murder!

Sorry but the war in Iraq was not self-defense. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Also the careless killing of innocent Iraqi civilians IS murder. Not compensating their families for their grief is outrageous.

Please also see post #57 in this thread

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1227538&postcount=57

[Live Free]

This is not a just war.

It turned unjust as soon as the USA's (read Bush) attention went from Al Queda towards Iraq.

I would think that if people would recall that the citizenry was told 900 and some lies to get us to go into Iraq, maybe they would realize just how unjust this war is and self-correct their views. To me, that is what a Christian would do... self-correct.

I am a Christian and I also believe that America has become/is the terrorist. We as a nation have blood on our hands for not stopping it.

[allyinoh]

Just war theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war

I am a Christian. I am not a pacifist. But, I do not believe Iraq fits into the definition of a just war, and therefore would not support any candidate who believes the Iraq War is justified.

But wouldn't the Iraq war go AGAINST the just war theory?

I think Christians like many others have been mislead. It's the Muslims trying to kill the Americans aka Christians..

I don't know, I don't go to church anymore. I am only for war in self-defense.

[Molly1]

Alot of these gullible Christians still think there was WMD there like Huckabee. Alot of them think the Iraqi people were living under tyranny and deserved to be "liberated". Many of them also think the Iraqi's want us to be there.

The government has perpetuated these falsehoods, and the people are ignorant to the facts. I hope they continue to wake up to this.

Huckabee compares the missing weapons of mass destruction to Easter eggs. Who knows where the bunny hid the Easter eggs? Maybe Jordan.:rolleyes:

His buddy Mccain trumps him. Alzheimers means you can hide your own Easter eggs. :rolleyes: