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SilentBull
02-08-2008, 04:14 PM
A co-worker of mine was asking me what I thought about Obama. I told him my opinions and then told him that I could never respect anyone that refuses to talk about the Federal Reserve scam. He didn't know what I meant so I sent him this email summarizing the biggest scam of the country.

This is what we need to start doing...


The dollar is worth 4 cents compared to what it used to be worth back in 1913.

What happened in 1913? The Federal Reserve (The central bank of the U.S.) was created.

A central bank is not needed. Before 1913, banks used to compete with each other and were forced to be responsible or they would go bankrupt. The federal reserve removed this competition by uniting all the banks; kind of like when two companies get together and do price-fixing instead of competing. This is illegal if any other company does it.

History shows that money HAS to be something of value for an economy to prosper. That is why the Constitution says only Gold or Silver should be used as money. Before 1913, dollars represented actual Gold or Silver that were stored in banks. A dollar was really a receipt that you could use to get the actual gold.

Inflation (higher prices) is caused when more money is put into circulation. In a monopoly game, if you use twice the amount of money for every one, all the property prices will probably double because there is more money in circulation (everyone's money is now worth less).

When dollars are backed by gold, it prevents high inflation because in order to introduce more money into the economy gold has to be mined, which is not an easy or free process. So having a gold-backed currency protects us from inflation. Inflation causes the value of your saved money to go down (think of a pie that has to be split).

A gold-backed dollar keeps the politicians in check by limiting their power to spend and cause inflation. Without this power they would have to tell the people that they plan to directly raise taxes. The people would not be happy and they would be out of office.

The federal reserve eventually removed the requirement that the US dollar had to represent something of value (gold). It is now just a piece of paper.

Since it is a piece of paper, it can be printed in a printing press without the need to mine gold or anything else. Money can be created by just printing it!!!!

The Federal Reserve is a private organization. It doesn't belong to the government (it's not really federal).

When the federal reserve prints money and gives it to the government (to finance a war, for example), the Federal Reserve charges the government interest.They charge them interest for money that COST THEM NOTHING TO CREATE!! If the government were the one creating the money, they would not have to owe interest!!!

Where does the government get the money to pay the interest to the Federal Reserve?? From our taxes. So not only are we paying for interest for that money, but because inflation is created when the money is printed, we are also paying in higher prices.

How do the bankers benefit?
- They charge the government (really, it's the taxpayer) interest on created money.
- Also, the Federal Reserve serves as a safety net for all the U.S. banks. When there is a safety net, it encourages banks to be very irresponsible by lending too much money. By taking risks they make more money. If an irresponsible bank is about to go bankrupt, the Federal Reserve bails it out by creating more money.
- So basically, bankers can do whatever they want and the taxpayer pays for their mistakes. It's a perfect system for them.
- An example is the FDIC. The FDIC NEVER has enough money to insure all the deposits in all the banks. When it's time for the FDIC to help and they don't have enough money, more money is printed by the Fed Reserve. So as taxpayers we are paying for a bank's mistake, instead for the irresponsible bank to be allowed to close for being irresponsible.

How do politicians benefit?
- Politicians are afraid to tell people they will raise their taxes. But since people don't know how inflation works, it is very easy for them to go to the Federal Reserve and ask for a loan. The politicians get to spend as much as they want for whatever they want, without the people finding out that they have been taxed. They are taxed because the money that they have is now WORTH LESS and LESS everyday.

How special interest groups benefit?
Corporations close to the government who are paid directly by it will get the newly created money first. When they get it, inflation hasn't happened yet because it hasn't had enough time to circulate through the entire country. When all that money starts circulating, our saved money will be worth less. So they get to receive the money before the inflation happens. We, who are not close to the government, get nothing. We get robbed.
Also, the special interest groups lobby (bribe) congress people to pass laws that will benefit them, like subsidize their industry by helping them out with money.

If you read "The Creature From Jekyll Island" by Edward Griffin, you will see that this system was not a mistake. It was a calculated plan to protect the bankers at the expense of the taxpayer. Jekyll Island is a place in Georgia where these group of people met secretly to come up with this plan.

Woodrow Wilson (then president) who went along with it, even regretted it and said that he gave a group of elites the power to control the country.


Time and time again the government tries to fix problems that they actually created by getting involved. Free markets work. Government doesn't.

Let me know if this makes sense. Part of what the Ron Paul Movement is about is educating people about this stuff. The more people know, the harder it is for the government to screw us.

Edit: Digg it: http://digg.com/political_opinion/Th..._Worth_Nothing (http://digg.com/political_opinion/The_Biggest_Secret_in_USA_Why_The_Dollar_Is_Worth_ Nothing)

SilentBull
02-08-2008, 05:21 PM
bump

BFranklin
02-08-2008, 05:28 PM
You should add that since the FED loans the money to the government at interest and they have a monopoly on creating our money, where does the gov get the money to pay the interest? Answer....by borrowing more money from the FED which sinks us deeper and deeper in debt we can never get out of and that's why our dollar is worth nothing. Since 1913 they have had to print more and more money just to cover the interest on money borrowed.

Tell him the FED system does not need to exist AND the government can manage and print money interest free....the treasury is responsible for our money not a private bank.

QCB79
02-08-2008, 05:29 PM
+1

Lovecraftian4Paul
02-08-2008, 05:38 PM
Very nice. You may only want to mention something about John Kennedy's Executive Order 11110, which called for issuing new silver certificates against the Fed, and it's supposedly still on the books (just ignored and not enforced). Some people go really far and plug this into a theory as to why JFK was killed. I don't know about that, but the Executive Order itself is an interesting side fact tied with the Fed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11110

TruthAtLast
02-08-2008, 05:50 PM
Yes, the FED charges our government (and therefore the PEOPLE) for the use of its own currency.

BUT, when we say "print money" we don't mean literally printing money. Only 5% of the "money" in the world is actual hard currency.

It is FRACTION RESERVE BANKING that has caused this. Banks only need 1 dollar on hand for every 10 dollars they loan. So every loan in the world is adding money to the money supply. Not actually tangible currency but the "money" is being added to your account balance and you are being charged interest on money that the bank never had to loan in the first place! When you pay back that loan, the bank can now loan 10 times more because of Fractional Reserve Banking. But it isn't backed by anything. The money you paid back is debt money (money created solely from debt), and therefore the money the bank lends out on the next load is backed by debt money.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have it backed by gold or silver just based on how the banking system works. If they are allowed to continue to loan something they don't have then more money will ALWAYS be added to the money supply thereby increasing inflation. It is this Fractional Reserve Banking that the FED and other banks are allowed to do that is destroying not just our economy but the WORLD economy. ALL of the central banks in the world (including the world bank created by the U.N.) do this. They create money from nothing.

Yes, printing money is bad enough, but this is WORSE because they creating money from debt with nothing backing it. They don't even have to print it.

Broadlighter
02-08-2008, 05:54 PM
When did Obama refuse to talk about the Federal Reserve scam? Please provide details. I have some friends who are all ga-ga about him and I told them the same thing you told your friend. I would love to share this with my Obama friends.

SilentBull
02-08-2008, 05:58 PM
When did Obama refuse to talk about the Federal Reserve scam? Please provide details. I have some friends who are all ga-ga about him and I told them the same thing you told your friend. I would love to share this with my Obama friends.

What I meant by that statement is that no other politician talks about the source of the economic problems. I didn't mean he, specifically, refuses to talk about it. It's that everyone but Ron Paul ignores it.

SilentBull
02-08-2008, 06:00 PM
Yes, the FED charges our government (and therefore the PEOPLE) for the use of its own currency.

BUT, when we say "print money" we don't mean literally printing money. Only 5% of the "money" in the world is actual hard currency.

It is FRACTION RESERVE BANKING that has caused this. Banks only need 1 dollar on hand for every 10 dollars they loan. So every loan in the world is adding money to the money supply. Not actually tangible currency but the "money" is being added to your account balance and you are being charged interest on money that the bank never had to loan in the first place! When you pay back that loan, the bank can now loan 10 times more because of Fractional Reserve Banking. But it isn't backed by anything. The money you paid back is debt money (money created solely from debt), and therefore the money the bank lends out on the next load is backed by debt money.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have it backed by gold or silver just based on how the banking system works. If they are allowed to continue to loan something they don't have then more money will ALWAYS be added to the money supply thereby increasing inflation. It is this Fractional Reserve Banking that the FED and other banks are allowed to do that is destroying not just our economy but the WORLD economy. ALL of the central banks in the world (including the world bank created by the U.N.) do this. They create money from nothing.

Yes, printing money is bad enough, but this is WORSE because they creating money from debt with nothing backing it. They don't even have to print it.

Yes, you are right. Fractional reserve banking let's them lend money they don't even print. I chose to keep it simple. I didn't want to overwhelm him with information.

josh24601
02-08-2008, 06:08 PM
One question you will have to answer when presenting this:

Who keeps the money that is given/owed to the Federal Reserve? Do the old rich white men of the Federal Reserve split it up?

Is Alan Greenspan rolling around in piles of money that he made by doing this while he was in charge?

Like, literally, who collects the money the Fed charges the govt?

Liberty_is_NORML
02-08-2008, 06:12 PM
Excellent thread, guys...great info here and easy to understand.

:)

SilentBull
02-08-2008, 06:23 PM
One question you will have to answer when presenting this:

Who keeps the money that is given/owed to the Federal Reserve? Do the old rich white men of the Federal Reserve split it up?

Is Alan Greenspan rolling around in piles of money that he made by doing this while he was in charge?

Like, literally, who collects the money the Fed charges the govt?

That's a great question. I'm assuming that since the Fed is a private organization the same rules apply that apply to any company. However, I don't have any info on this. Does anyone know for sure?? I'm sure there is a lot more to learn.

Bold As Love
02-08-2008, 06:23 PM
Absolutely awesome thread.

This is the BIG issue.

dannno
02-08-2008, 06:28 PM
That's a great question. I'm assuming that since the Fed is a private organization the same rules apply that apply to any company. However, I don't have any info on this. Does anyone know for sure?? I'm sure there is a lot more to learn.

The fed is owned by 8 member banks and ownership is secret.

The argument is made that congress has authority over the Fed, but then go tell that to Ron Paul who IS in congress and has been trying to reign in the Fed for decades!

Also, i've read somewhere on a website that the Fed gives our government back some or all of the interest we pay in the form of rebates... anybody know about this?

MJfromCT
02-08-2008, 06:48 PM
This is the biggest issue to push if Ron runs as an independent. It is just too scary and would of kept Ron out of all debates if he pressed this issue anymore than he already has this election. But, now that the media has written him off and if the next set of states hand McCain the nomination on a silver plate then the kid gloves will be off.

Agora
02-08-2008, 06:53 PM
bump

BFranklin
02-08-2008, 07:02 PM
One question you will have to answer when presenting this:

Who keeps the money that is given/owed to the Federal Reserve? Do the old rich white men of the Federal Reserve split it up?

Is Alan Greenspan rolling around in piles of money that he made by doing this while he was in charge?

Like, literally, who collects the money the Fed charges the govt?


DAVID ROCKEFELLER!!!!!!

Rothchilds, Morgans, Warburgs, Rockefeller families


Anyone wonder why D Rockefeller is such an important figure when he holds no office? Politicians kiss his ass....why? Everyone knows the Rockefellers but all they know is "they are rich"

josh24601
02-08-2008, 07:08 PM
All I'm saying...

If you are going to be telling people that the Fed charges the US (and us) interest on money it prints, and that the Fed charges the US an insane amount of money....

You have to answer who at "the Fed" actually collects this money.

I give this thread 4 pages until somebody says Illuminati. I already see Rothchild and Rockefeller, so I know it's coming.

bmovers
02-08-2008, 07:13 PM
This is a great email to pass around to people to educate them on the Fed.

I highly highly highly recommend adding a link to amazon's page on The Creature From Jekyll Island, because the reviews of that book are pretty incredible.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0912986212

kyleAF
02-08-2008, 08:03 PM
All I'm saying...

If you are going to be telling people that the Fed charges the US (and us) interest on money it prints, and that the Fed charges the US an insane amount of money....

You have to answer who at "the Fed" actually collects this money.

I give this thread 4 pages until somebody says Illuminati. I already see Rothchild and Rockefeller, so I know it's coming.

It's kept in their coffers. They currently have about 725 Billion dollars in reserves (Federal "reserve"), last I checked. The data can be found at their website. I'm not sure how much is in dollars and how much is just in numbered account entries.

Who gets to invest it? That's the question.

Mini-Me
02-08-2008, 08:28 PM
All I'm saying...

If you are going to be telling people that the Fed charges the US (and us) interest on money it prints, and that the Fed charges the US an insane amount of money....

You have to answer who at "the Fed" actually collects this money.

I give this thread 4 pages until somebody says Illuminati. I already see Rothchild and Rockefeller, so I know it's coming.

josh24601, someone actually already answered your question:

The fed is owned by 8 member banks and ownership is secret.

The argument is made that congress has authority over the Fed, but then go tell that to Ron Paul who IS in congress and has been trying to reign in the Fed for decades!

Also, i've read somewhere on a website that the Fed gives our government back some or all of the interest we pay in the form of rebates... anybody know about this?

The whole point is that nobody knows for sure exactly who owns the Fed, because nobody's ever been able to do an audit! The Federal Reserve is a corporation, but it's owned and operated in complete secrecy. The mere fact that nearly everything about it is kept secret is a testament to its immense power and influence. The obvious answer to your question is, "The richest banks in the world own the Fed," but due to the secrecy of the Fed's shareholders, nobody can name any names and supply written proof of the individual banks and their ownership share. Furthermore, since we can't determine the individual banks and their prominence with absolute certainty, we can't determine the largest shareholders of those particular banks, either. However, it stands to reason that these banks are long-time dynasties of the Rockefeller and Rothschild type, as opposed to "run-of-the-mill" banks like Fifth Third. We really can't get any more specific without making educated guesses, but it's obvious that the Fed is not owned by ordinary citizens like you or me. josh24601, your tone seems rather condescending, implying that you somehow think it's ridiculous that shadowy families like the Rockefellers and Rothschilds might be behind the Federal Reserve. If you disagree, please enlighten us: Who do YOU think owns the Fed? Or do you think the Fed itself is just a figment of our overactive imaginations?

IMPORTANT EDIT: I sought out this post because I remember making it, and apparently I may have been incorrect. In another thread, AceNZ posted a link to this (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/3616/FedReserveFacts.html) site, which "debunks some myths" about the Fed. Some of the things it asserts (with explanations, sources, etc.) are that the Fed indeed has been audited (and is audited frequently), and it lists the banks that own the Fed. It also states that the Fed repays almost all interest given to them by the Treasury (minus operating costs). Although I still disagree strongly with the author's belief that the Fed should continue to exist (fractional reserve banking and "fiat money as debt" are travesties that keep the population collectively enslaved, and on the whole, permanently "in the red" - and the Fed is an instrument of this), it's an interesting read. I haven't looked into the sources cited as the basis for these arguments, but at the very least, the arguments on the site seem to be more well backed-up than the "telephone game" we've apparently been playing. Perhaps the only reason we believe the Fed hasn't been audited is because of the whole thing, "Say something a thousand times and it becomes true."

Psycho792
02-08-2008, 08:33 PM
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. "

SVS2K
02-08-2008, 10:48 PM
Didn't I also read somewhere.... that most if not all of our income tax goes toward interest to pay off the govt's loans from the Fed? Or.......?

If so, that's another good point to make about how much the Fed is dominating our lives.

Chester Copperpot
02-08-2008, 10:58 PM
That's a great question. I'm assuming that since the Fed is a private organization the same rules apply that apply to any company. However, I don't have any info on this. Does anyone know for sure?? I'm sure there is a lot more to learn.

No rules apply to the fed.. The Fed MAKES the rules.. seriously.

Chester Copperpot
02-08-2008, 11:02 PM
The fed is owned by 8 member banks and ownership is secret.

The argument is made that congress has authority over the Fed, but then go tell that to Ron Paul who IS in congress and has been trying to reign in the Fed for decades!

Also, i've read somewhere on a website that the Fed gives our government back some or all of the interest we pay in the form of rebates... anybody know about this?


The Fed remits most of its 'profits' which only means that it remits any interest to the federal govt which it directly received from owning govt bonds...

Its just for show IMO, as the fed doesnt remit any interest if it sells or transfers those bonds to member banks.. Nor does it remit any profit that it makes from lending money to banks, etc. The fed can pretty much do anything it wants accounting-wise and nobody will be able to say boo.

On average the fed "earns" $22 Billion or so, and remits about $19 Billion to the treasury.. Again just for show.. since they literalyy earn hundreds of billions of dollars a year, um probably more like a trillion.

josh24601
02-08-2008, 11:10 PM
Sorry, but I'm a pretty intelligent person that just has never been very interested in economic (that is changing).

And I still don't get where you are saying the money goes. If I don't, I can assure you that anybody you are trying to educate about this that isn't as eager as I am to learn won't get it.

Do they keep it? Does it go into a "reserve" they control? Does it go to the US treasury? Is the Fed a profit or non-profit organization? Who makes the profit?

BigRedBrent
02-08-2008, 11:33 PM
Sorry, but I'm a pretty intelligent person that just has never been very interested in economic (that is changing).

And I still don't get where you are saying the money goes. If I don't, I can assure you that anybody you are trying to educate about this that isn't as eager as I am to learn won't get it.

Do they keep it? Does it go into a "reserve" they control? Does it go to the US treasury? Is the Fed a profit or non-profit organization? Who makes the profit?

This may explain some of that. I tried to include the absolutely most important information in as little text as I could. Anyone who don't know thus stuff should be shitting bricks after they find out about it.

We need Educational Ads !!!
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=114669

Geckomeister
02-08-2008, 11:43 PM
From what I understand the Bank of England (yet another private bank) owns the largest share of the Federal Reserve. So much for freedom from England's rule. They may still control the U.S. secretly. The City of London, a district of several blocks, which is a separate entity from Municipal London, is apparently the true financial center of the world. It is there that the Bank of England is headquartered as well as other institutions which control the world's economy.
As a thought - since the Federal Reserve is indeed a private corporation, should they not be reporting their income to the IRS and paying taxes on it, just as any other corporation does? Is this not treason? Is the Federal Government, the IRS, the Treasury and every Federal entity that deals with the Federal reserve not behaving in a treasonous manner by not carrying out their responsibility to treat the Federal Reserve as any other corporation? Should not the many people who are responsible for failing to carry out thier duties be put on trail and sentenced to jail for their complicity in this scheme? Should not the Federal Reserve have it's assets seized by the IRS for not reporting their income and for not paying taxes on it? I think I heard somewhere that creating money in an unconstitutional manner is an especially grievous crime, with the possible penaly of death. Perhaps someone can shed some more light on this matter.

BigRedBrent
02-08-2008, 11:56 PM
From what I understand the Bank of England (yet another private bank) owns the largest share of the Federal Reserve. So much for freedom from England's rule. They may still control the U.S. secretly. The City of London, a district of several blocks, which is a separate entity from Municipal London, is apparently the true financial center of the world. It is there that the Bank of England is headquartered as well as other institutions which control the world's economy.
As a thought - since the Federal Reserve is indeed a private corporation, should they not be reporting their income to the IRS and paying taxes on it, just as any other corporation does? Is this not treason? Is the Federal Government, the IRS, the Treasury and every Federal entity that deals with the Federal reserve not behaving in a treasonous manner by not carrying out their responsibility to treat the Federal Reserve as any other corporation? Should not the many people who are responsible for failing to carry out thier duties be put on trail and sentenced to jail for their complicity in this scheme? Should not the Federal Reserve have it's assets seized by the IRS for not reporting their income and for not paying taxes on it? I think I heard somewhere that creating money in an unconstitutional manner is an especially grievous crime, with the possible penaly of death. Perhaps someone can shed some more light on this matter.

I think they do pay taxes. I am sure they have many ways of reducing the taxes they pay though.

SilentBull
02-11-2008, 10:53 AM
I modified my original post a little and put in digg. Digg it please. This is how we can get the sheeple to listen. They are just angry at the wrong people. They get angry at the rich and ask the government for help because they don't know that the government itself is the problem.

http://digg.com/political_opinion/The_Biggest_Secret_in_USA_Why_The_Dollar_Is_Worth_ Nothing

Chester Copperpot
02-11-2008, 10:57 AM
I think they do pay taxes. I am sure they have many ways of reducing the taxes they pay though.

federal reserve is not subject to income taxes

Chester Copperpot
02-11-2008, 10:58 AM
Sorry, but I'm a pretty intelligent person that just has never been very interested in economic (that is changing).

And I still don't get where you are saying the money goes. If I don't, I can assure you that anybody you are trying to educate about this that isn't as eager as I am to learn won't get it.

Do they keep it? Does it go into a "reserve" they control? Does it go to the US treasury? Is the Fed a profit or non-profit organization? Who makes the profit?


IM not sure who you are asking this question to. But there is no 'reserve' anywhere just fyi.

CurtisLow
02-11-2008, 11:13 AM
If I could pick just one thing to change in Gov it would be. Get rid of the Federal Reserve.

I think it's the one thing that pisses me off the most!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

theantirobot
02-11-2008, 11:23 AM
The way I explain it to people is in a nutshell, if you have a dollar, that means someone else owes the federal reserve a dollar. The Federal Reserve can make loans whenever they want.

strapko
02-11-2008, 11:28 AM
The executive order Kenedy put out had nothing to do with harming the FED or banks. It has been debunked.

IRO-bot
02-11-2008, 12:00 PM
The executive order Kenedy put out had nothing to do with harming the FED or banks. It has been debunked.

Where did that come from?

Edu
02-11-2008, 12:06 PM
The executive order Kenedy put out had nothing to do with harming the FED or banks. It has been debunked.I heard he woke up one morning and thought to himself "I think I'll print some silver certificates just for fun", no particular reason, just fun.

dbhohio47
02-11-2008, 12:38 PM
Here is a link that might help answer the question. It says that "After paying its expenses, the Federal Reserve turns the rest of its earnings over to the U.S. Treasury. "

Link: http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm

lastnymleft
02-11-2008, 01:03 PM
The Federal Reserve charges the US Treasury a fixed 6% for every dollar that the Fed creates out of thin air. That 6% is paid to the owners of the Fed as a dividend. It's not quite correct to say that the Fed is a private corporation, like Fed Ex. It's the beneficial ownership of the shares in the bank, and the *BENEFITS* themselves (ie the 6%) that are privatized.

It's federal in that it came about by an act of Congress, but Congress can only nominate the Chairman. The rest of the board, the beneficial ownership of the shares, and the actual benefits, are all private.

Who private? Who knows. THAT's the story.

A GREAT question that should be asked at the next Presidential debate:

"The Federal Reserve banking system charges 6% interest on every dollar that it creates out of thin air. Who should receive the benefits of the creation of that money, the American people, or privately-owned banks behind the Federal Reserve? And do you pledge that when you are in office, you will make it so?"

Or some variation thereof, to similar effect.

TruthAtLast
02-11-2008, 01:13 PM
Here is a link that might help answer the question. It says that "After paying its expenses, the Federal Reserve turns the rest of its earnings over to the U.S. Treasury. "

Link: http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm


A link to the Federal Reserve site? Yeah, because I would expect them to just say right on the site that they've orchestrated the largest transfer of wealth the world has ever known.

:(

The following language was taken right from the house of representative minutes located at:
http://commdocs.house... (http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/bank/hba44338.000/hba44338_0.htm)



Start>>
Now let's talk about the dollar note. It costs four cents to print, you said.

Mr. ALLISON. Yes. These are rough??

Mr. METCALF. You rounded out, I understand.

Mr. ALLISON. Yes, I said those were ballpark numbers.

Mr. METCALF. But then the Federal Reserve, essentially, issues it into circulation.

Mr. ALLISON. Yes.

Mr. METCALF. And what do they do with that? They get 96 cents for every one dollar bill that goes into circulation, if it costs four cents. What do they do with that 96 cents? What do they buy with it?

Mr. ALLISON. Yes, actually, the Federal Reserve buys a Treasury bill or Government security of some type worth one dollar.

Mr. METCALF. And, thus, we pay interest directly or indirectly on every Federal Reserve note in circulation; over $400 billion.

Mr. ALLISON. Let me make clear that the Federal Reserve buys those notes from the public; that is, those were Government securities that the Treasury had issued in the past; they're already put into circulation. They're a consequence of past budgetary deficits by the Federal Government. So, instead of the Treasury paying interest to the public or some other holder, it's paying to a different holder. This holder, however, the Federal Reserve System, returns all of the interest?unlike all other holders?returns all of the interest to the Treasury.

Mr. METCALF. Not all of the interest.

Mr. ALLISON. At the margin, all of the interest. The Federal Reserve, as you know, keeps an amount necessary to cover our own budget, and that's about the first $2 billion, roughly, of earnings; keeps enough to add a small increment to an account called ''surplus,'' which is retained earnings. That's a few hundred million, and pays a dividend to member banks, another few hundred million, and then 100 percent of the balance over that goes back to the Treasury.

Mr. METCALF. Right. You take out your expenses, and give the rest to the Treasury which is fine. I just wanted to make that clear. It seems like a strange system where we could issue the money directly as we do our coins, and gain the seigniorage, and, instead, we allow the Fed to issue it, and then we pay interest on it out of the Treasury, and then part of that interest comes back to us. It seems like an arcane system that could have been invented only by somebody who was mentally deranged.

[Laughter.]

I think we're mentally deranged to continue it.

Chairman CASTLE. Mr. Allison did not invent this system. I just want to make sure everybody understands that here.

[Laughter.]

>> End

The only conspiracy is a theory not proven, here as you can see it is a proven fact that Americans are being sold out for the wealth of the elitist who LAUGH about it.


Below is some good information found here:
http://www.apfn.org/APFN/fed_reserve.htm

ARTICLE 1, SECTION 8 OF THE CONSTITUTION STATES THAT CONGRESS SHALL HAVE THE POWER TO COIN (CREATE) MONEY AND REGULATE THE VALUE THEREOF.

IN 1935 THE SUPREME COURT RULED THAT CONGRESS CANNOT CONSTITUTIONALLY DELEGATE ITS POWER TO ANOTHER GROUP.

Rothschild, a London Banker and a member of the most powerful and wealthiest banking family in the history of the world, wrote a letter saying:


"It (Central Bank ) gives the National Bank almost complete control of national finance. The few who understand the system will either be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favours, that there will be no opposition from that class... The great body of the people, mentally incapable of comprehending, will bear its burden without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical (contrary) to their interests."

The FED began with approximately 300 people or banks that became owners (stockholders purchasing stock at $100 per share - the stock is not publicly traded) in the Federal Reserve Banking System. They make up an international banking cartel of wealth beyond comparison. The FED banking system collects billions of dollars in interest annually and distributes the profits to its shareholders. The Congress illegally gave the FED the right to print money (through the Treasury) at no interest to the FED. The FED creates money from nothing, and loans it back to us through banks, and charges interest on our currency. The FED also buys Government debt with money printed on a printing press and charges U.S. taxpayers interest. Many Congressmen and Presidents say this is fraud.

Who actually owns the Federal Reserve Central Banks? The ownership of the 12 Central banks, a very well kept secret, has been revealed:


Rothschild Bank of London
Warburg Bank of Hamburg
Rothschild Bank of Berlin
Lehman Brothers of New York
Lazard Brothers of Paris
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
Goldman, Sachs of New York
Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York


These bankers are connected to London Banking Houses which ultimately control the FED. When England lost the Revolutionary War with America (our forefathers were fighting their own government), they planned to control us by controlling our banking system, the printing of our money, and our debt.

The individuals listed below owned banks which in turn owned shares in the FED. The banks listed below have significant control over the New York FED District, which controls the other 11 FED Districts. These banks also are partly foreign owned and control the New York FED District Bank.


First National Bank of New York James Stillman National City Bank, New York Mary W. Harnman
National Bank of Commerce, New York A.D. Jiullard
Hanover National Bank, New York Jacob Schiff
Chase National Bank, New York Thomas F. Ryan Paul Warburg William Rockefeller Levi P. Morton M.T. Pyne George F. Baker Percy Pyne Mrs. G.F. St. George J.W. Sterling Katherine St. George H.P. Davidson J.P. Morgan (Equitable Life/Mutual Life) Edith Brevour T. Baker


How did it happen? After previous attempts to push the Federal Reserve Act through Congress, a group of bankers funded and staffed Woodrow Wilson's campaign for President. He had committed to sign this act. In 1913, a Senator, Nelson Aldrich, maternal grandfather to the Rockefellers, pushed the Federal Reserve Act through Congress just before Christmas when much of Congress was on vacation. When elected, Wilson passed the FED. Later, Wilson remorsefully replied (referring to the FED), "I have unwittingly ruined my country".

Now the banks financially back sympathetic candidates. Not surprisingly, most of these candidates are elected. One of the biggest ways to accumulate debt is through WAR. Wonder my McCain in the "annointed" candidate?

The bankers employ members of the Congress on weekends (nickname T club -out Thursday...-in Tuesday) with lucrative salaries. Additionally, the FED started buying up the media in the 1930's and now owns or significantly influences most of it.

Presidents Lincoln, Jackson, and Kennedy tried to stop this family of bankers by printing U.S. dollars without charging the taxpayers interest.

Today, if the government runs a deficit, the FED prints dollars through the U.S. Treasury, buys the debt, and the dollars are circulated into the economy. In 1992, taxpayers paid the FED banking system $286 billion in interest on debt the FED purchased by printing money virtually cost free. Forty percent of our personal federal income taxes goes to pay this interest. The FED's books are not open to the public. Congress has yet to audit it.

Congressman Wright Patman was Chairman of the House of Representatives Committee on Banking and Currency for 40 years. For 20 of those years, he introduced legislation to repeal the Federal Reserve Banking Act of 1913.

Congressman Henry Gonzales, Chairman of a banking committee, introduces legislation to repeal the Federal Reserve Banking Act of 1913 nearly every year. It's always defeated, the media remains silent, and the public never learns the truth. The same bankers who own the FED control the media and give huge political contributions to sympathetic members of Congress.

Mini-Me
02-16-2008, 09:12 AM
I just now edited a post I made on the third page, but I think it would be a good idea to repost it at the bottom to keep this discussion going. I'm mentally exhausted right now, so I'm going to wait for another time to wade through the truth of what TruthAtLast (and others) posted vs. the truth of what is on the site I'm linking to below...
Really, I have no idea at the moment "which way is up" here. ;) Still, this way at least we're exposed to another take on the matter...so we don't look like idiots, caught with our pants down. :p It'll be interesting if it turns out we've had a lot of our facts wrong. From the edit to my other post:

IMPORTANT EDIT: I sought out this post because I remember making it, and apparently I may have been incorrect. In another thread, AceNZ posted a link to this site (http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/3616/FedReserveFacts.html), which "debunks some myths" about the Fed. Some of the things it asserts (with explanations, sources, etc.) are that the Fed indeed has been audited (and is audited frequently), and it lists the banks that own the Fed. It also states that the Fed repays almost all interest given to them by the Treasury (minus operating costs). Although I still disagree strongly with the author's belief that the Fed should continue to exist (fractional reserve banking and "fiat money as debt" are travesties that keep the population collectively enslaved, and on the whole, permanently "in the red" - and the Fed is an instrument of this), it's an interesting read. I haven't looked into the sources cited as the basis for these arguments, but at the very least, the arguments on the site seem to be more well backed-up than the "telephone game" we've apparently been playing. Perhaps the only reason we believe the Fed hasn't been audited is because of the whole thing, "Say something a thousand times and it becomes true."

emilysdad
02-16-2008, 10:52 AM
Sorry, but I'm a pretty intelligent person that just has never been very interested in economic (that is changing).

And I still don't get where you are saying the money goes. If I don't, I can assure you that anybody you are trying to educate about this that isn't as eager as I am to learn won't get it.

Do they keep it? Does it go into a "reserve" they control? Does it go to the US treasury? Is the Fed a profit or non-profit organization? Who makes the profit?

Josh: Another poster stated only 5% of "money" is in actually in paper around the world. This is caused by fractional reserve banking. Thus, most banking is simply electronic. There is no money. All the transactions are electronic. The electronic money is used to "buy" wealth. Transfer the electronic wealth into real assets. Just a thought.

TruthAtLast
02-16-2008, 01:46 PM
Perhaps the only reason we believe the Fed hasn't been audited is because of the whole thing, "Say something a thousand times and it becomes true."

We believe the FED hasn't been audited because it hasn't. Hundreds of Congressmen over the years have said the same thing and they have way more access to information than we do. Ron Paul has said it publicly as well.

Hundreds of letters have been sent to the FED over the last few decades from Congress DEMANDING access to Fort Knox and a complete inventory (with Congress members present) of the the gold reserves. The FED has refused over and over again. The majority of assets that the FED has is fiat currency. So our debt money is backed by debt money. This fiat currency is only paper. There is nothing of value backing it. It only has value because everyone agrees it has value; because Congress says it has value; because courts have made law saying that the fiat currency MUST be accepted as repayment of debt.

Some congressmen in the past have even subpoenaed the Chairman of the FED and he refused to comply. The only information the Congress had access to was the M2 and M3 stats (given by the FED of course) but in 1987 the FED stopped providing that information to Congress as well.

There is of course a difference between the Federal Reserve Board of Governors and the Federal Reserve System. Most people think that the FED is ultimately controlled by the Government by the fact that the president appoints the members of the Federal Reserve Board including the chairman. But because each of the 7 members of the Board of Governors serve 14 year terms which are spread 2 years apart, a president would have to get elected at the right time to coincide with the expiration of the term of one of the board members, then replace 4 members in the next 8 years (assuming this president could get re-elected after the FED destroys the economy to prove its need to exist and blame the downturn on the current president).

In this way a Government really "OF THE PEOPLE" could gain control of the Board of Governors. But this is assuming that such a president could get elected in the first place will all of the forces at play against them. The other side of the equation is Congress who is also influenced, ignorant of the problem, or corrupted by the FED.

Spending is the lifeblood of the Congress. For the majority in Congress, it is more about just BEING IN CONGRESS, than it is about serving the best interests of the people. This is why earmarks are so important as they borrow money we don't have to send government contracts and funds back to their constituents so that they can get re-elected. They cave to the pressures of lobbyists that help fund their future campaigns while also lining their pockets and maintaining their lifestyle.

Our Government is addicted to drugs. They are crack whores (just and analogy) and their dealer is the FED. Their drug of choice is of course money and power.

But a true Revolution could work if pursued from all sides. But there is a major problem when you don't have a central leadership of a movement. Unions succeed because they are bound together for a single purpose. Often times there is significant sacrifice and hardship that it takes to make real change. The writers strike is an example. Suddenly people have no work and no source of income. If they were negotiating by themselves, they would settle for much less.

It is this action that I fear when the Revolution comes. People are often uneducated and a "compromise" will eventually be presented that people will feel is "good enough". But these people are professional negotiators. They hide their intentions in a web of legal jargon and twisted meanings. Most American's get overexposed and tired.

Proof? How many people are on these forums now? Where are all of the supporters at? All of these people were rattling their swords and were very enthusiastic, and now only a few remain. We look on the News and see people dying every day and reports about the war in Iraq, but most people don't REALLY care. I know that is a horrible thing to say but it is true. There is a disconnect and people are immune to it. They might be outraged for a few minutes, then they flip the channel to American Idol and everything is OK again.

That is the problem with this movement (or any movement). Many of our liberties are taken away so slowly that we don't even notice it. We'll hear a horror story about some abuse of power but it didn't happen to us or someone we know so we forget about it.

But let's say something really drastic happened like a nuclear attack on one or several of our cities (like in the TV show Jericho). This may have the opposite effect that we want. What could galvanize the people into overthrowing this Government would likely instead add so much FEAR (because it would be blamed on some unknown terrorists) that Americans would give up any last ounce of privacy and liberty they have left. Believe me, this WILL happen eventually and I think it will probably happen in my lifetime (though I pray to God that I'm proven wrong).

Really, the only way to succeed is to be extremely organized and infiltrate the Government at all levels. More than anything else Congress fears the MOB. The problem is that it is difficult to organize 1 million or even 20 million people around a single cause. They have been misinformed, or trust a Media who deceives them.

But though we would need to be organized, we would need to do so under the guise of decentralization; in a way that we don't appear to be a threat. We need to beat them at their own game. Take over precincts, districts, and states. There are major obstacles here and some people have posted some of the stories they've encountered just trying to become a PCO or get submit signatures. I keep thinking of the person who was trying to submit those signatures and was given the run around. If she was flanked by 200 other supporters, how much of a hassle would she have been given?

We have a difficult task ahead of us. I just hope that this movement doesn't fade away... but I can already see it happening. I feel like the movement was just staring to hit its stride. A 3rd party run would be a major message. Suddenly people who couldn't vote for Ron Paul (like some people I know in California who were registered Independent) would find a home. Suddenly the Republicans would have to take notice as there is no way they could take on us AND the democrats. Suddenly a polarized Democratic party would have another choice. More than any other year, this would be the year that a real message could be made. And even if Ron didn't win... you can be sure he would have a HUGE impact on the results of the election. Our Government would have no choice but to address the masses.

Ok, enough of my rant... sorry. :D

strapko
08-16-2008, 01:22 PM
I heard he woke up one morning and thought to himself "I think I'll print some silver certificates just for fun", no particular reason, just fun.

You need to read the executive order more closely. Kennedy was not going to bring us back on a silver standard. In fact he believed in big government and fiat money.