Does a connection with vote fraud in Iowa help or hurt the campaign?

[jpa]

I would like to know what the forum thinks about this issue:

Here is the interview where Jim Conduit associates the vote fraud issue with the Ron Paul campaign, and threatens to stop the straw poll.
http://media.libsyn.com/media/mickelson/mickelson-2007-08-08.mp3

Here is iowa media coverage of the issue:
http://www.kcci.com/news/13851881/detail.html?taf=des

[ronpaulitician]

Once it becomes known that the person in charge of making sure everything's in order is a member of the Romney team... I don't think this can hurt.

[DeadheadForPaul]

Jim Conduit needs to get a grip

[Richie]

If it happens and is made known to the public, it might actually help.

[Mani]

Hurts, because the Iowa Diebold machines aren't the touch screens, they are the optical scanners with the paper trial.

We sound like idiots because any machine with the word Diebold is pure evil without hearing what type of machine it is.

[jpa]

I am a bigger supporter of transparent voting, and very against diebold etc.

BUT...

This lawsuit is absolute brain damaged dumb idea. Suing the Iowa GOP 2 days before the straw poll? Over what? Counting the votes in public? (instead of in front of a Ron Paul campaign staffer).

What about working with them months BEFOREHAND?

This is hijacking a the Ron Paul campaign, plain and simple. It's a good cause, but that doesn't excuse hijacking.

I could care less what the Iowa GOP bosses think of us. However canceling the Iowa Straw Poll will absolutly piss off Iowa GOP citizens, who I DO care about. They take a lot of pride in this event. A federal lawsuit 2 days beforehand to stop the event sucks.

[DeadheadForPaul]

I agree JPA. This guy is trying to hijack the Ron Paul campaign in order to advance his own agenda. If you truly care about Dr. Paul's campaign would not create such bad PR. It makes us look like a bunch of nutjobs and I've gotten that reaction from people who have heard about this

[Wyurm]

My personal opinion is that I wish he would back off the Iowa GOP, there are already people doing exit polls. There is no reason for him to annoy the GOP and make us all look like we are trying to make a pre-emptive excuse if Ron Paul doesnt get enough votes. It really does shed a bad light on the campaign.

However, I understand why he's doing it and I do sympathise, I just wish he would chill. But, you can't tell an angry cat what to do.

[Man from La Mancha]

I am a bigger supporter of transparent voting, and very against diebold etc.

BUT...

This lawsuit is absolute brain damaged dumb idea. Suing the Iowa GOP 2 days before the straw poll? Over what? Counting the votes in public? (instead of in front of a Ron Paul campaign staffer).

.

How do you count electrons buried deep inside computer circuits running by some guys program you can't question? I don't think diebold programs are open source.

I think addressing vote fraud right away before the primaries is the time to do it. The attention the straw polls gets is a great way to get some nation wide attention to this vital issue. Unless it is a paper vote there will never be verifiable count. I don't see how clear plastic boxes and some rented tables and 50,000 paper ballots would cost that much. Heck it would be fun to see the candidates themselves and their volunteers on public TV count the votes. That won't cost anything. I also think Ron's "coat of armor" his keen intellect can handle anything. I like his demeanor just as it is level headed and no extreme ranting. It is fine for Jims Condit group to do it on the side as long as he remembers not to relate it to Ron at all. The other reason the other candidates aren't objecting to the diebold count is their more afraid insulting the GOP than Ron is. They have to go back and keep getting paid as puppets or they might lose their old jobs.

Beside do people think anything that is said about vote fraud and Ron will get much MSM. They like to keep real quiet about that kind of stuff and Ron. Calling GOP HQ is useless, who do you thinks wants the machines.

I can see where ,when asked about this vote fraud stuff in Iowa he says that his campaign had nothing to do with it and even told their supporters not to bother the GOP, but he has no control over what other free people do.

[mport1]

Like I said before, Conduit basically said that this entire process needs to change or the straw poll needs to be canceled. So he is continuing with the law suit.

Do you guys not realize the absurdity of this? This is ONE DAY before an extremely important event for the GOP and we are basically trying to change the whole operation. I think it is extremely important that all the votes are counted, but this should have been in the works a LONG time ago and with absolutely NO MENTION of Ron Paul's name. Now we have really pissed off the the Iowa GOP. We need to pick our battles. This should not have been done like this right before the straw poll. Now the RP campaign is in a bad place with the Iowa GOP (and don't think they won't tell others about this).

[jpa]

My understanding is Ron Paul staffers are allowed to view the "calibration" of the machine (spot checking the count) as per the agreement between the Ron Paul campaign and the Iowa GOP as far back as last feb.

The whole setup stinks, I do not disagree. But that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about:

- Jim Conduit has already gone on record with the media associating this lawsuit with the Ron Paul
- the media is already reporting on it, with ron paul's name clear and center
- what does the average Iowan think about the above?

My questions for La Mancha (since I know you are a big Jim Conduit supporter)
1) Tommorrow, when the judge gets the lawsuit, and the media swarm Bob (Shultz?) and Jim, are they going to further link the Ron Paul campaign? Have they even talked to the HQ about the association?

2) Do you really think cancelling the straw poll a good idea? (a lot of supporters put a lot of time & money into making Ron Paul successful here)

[mport1]

My understanding is Ron Paul staffers are allowed to view the "calibration" of the machine (spot checking the count) as per the agreement between the Ron Paul campaign and the Iowa GOP as far back as last feb.

The whole setup stinks, I do not disagree. But that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about:

- Jim Conduit has already gone on record with the media associating this lawsuit with the Ron Paul
- the media is already reporting on it, with ron paul's name clear and center
- what does the average Iowan think about the above?

My questions for La Mancha (since I know you are a big Jim Conduit supporter)
1) Tommorrow, when the judge gets the lawsuit, and the media swarm Bob (Shultz?) and Jim, are they going to further link the Ron Paul campaign? Have they even talked to the HQ about the association?

2) Do you really think cancelling the straw poll a good idea? (a lot of supporters put a lot of time & money into making Ron Paul successful here)

Not to mention that 40,000+ voting at $35 a piece is a HUGE amount of money lost for the GOP. Hm, I wonder if they will be a little upset with RP and his supporters?

[max]

THET ARE AGAINST US ANYWAY! AND if RP gains steam, they'll turn on on us even harder..

Who cares about pissing off enemies that you will NEVER win over anyway? It's still eraly enough to expose Diebold. If we do nothing, all the primaries will be a waste of time.

The GOP hates us! Why cant you grasp this essential point?

[mport1]

THET ARE AGAINST US ANYWAY! AND if RP gains steam, they'll turn on on us even harder..

Who cares about pissing off enemies that you will NEVER win over anyway? It's still eraly enough to expose Diebold. If we do nothing, all the primaries will be a waste of time.

The GOP hates us! Why cant you grasp this essential point?

So you want to piss of the GOP, who's support we desperately need because of some deranged conspiracy that they will be rigging the votes to silence Ron Paul? We cannot cast aside an entire group of people like this because we think (or they do) hate us now. News flash, Ron Paul has very little support in the real world. His supporters are loyal, but there are a relatively small number of us scattered throughout the country. They are not worried at all about us.

[jpa]

THET ARE AGAINST US ANYWAY! AND if RP gains steam, they'll turn on on us even harder..

Who cares about pissing off enemies that you will NEVER win over anyway? It's still eraly enough to expose Diebold. If we do nothing, all the primaries will be a waste of time.

The GOP hates us! Why cant you grasp this essential point?

I think your view is out of touch with reality. Ron Paul is 10 term GOP congressman, running for the GOP nomination.

He absolutely needs the GOP (the people) support to win this thing. Why can't you grasp this essential point?

[DeadheadForPaul]

THET ARE AGAINST US ANYWAY! AND if RP gains steam, they'll turn on on us even harder..

Who cares about pissing off enemies that you will NEVER win over anyway? It's still eraly enough to expose Diebold. If we do nothing, all the primaries will be a waste of time.

The GOP hates us! Why cant you grasp this essential point?

I dont say this often, but you're a fucking idiot.

The GOP is not against us. I am in a Campus Republicans organization in which 3 of the 5 officers are Ron Paul fans. I just went to a local GOP event and convinced 3 lifetime Republicans to switch from Tancredo and Thompson to Paul.

Stop this US vs. THEM bullshit with the Party that Dr. Paul is seeking the nomination from! What the hell is wrong with you?

[McDermit]

It would have been fine if they kept RP's name out of it.

But shit, now you have RP supporters attacking the GOP, RP implying that he has concerns, and Romney standing up and saying he thinks everything will be fair. The average Ames-goer doesn't know that Romney has team members in charge of Ames, and just sees the problems that the RP camp has brought to town.

[blazin_it_alwyz]

I agree with what the rest of the people here are saying. Don't give the media, or the IOWA GOP any more reasons to dislike Paul. I also don't understand why he had to associate Paul with that at all, that only hurts him, whether you believe they will skew his results or not

and I happen to believe that there is a big chance some of these people want to skew the results...

But the way he went about it was all wrong. It's kind of like the 9/11 conspiracy theories. I have sifted through most of the research, and I happen to believe some parts of it. But do we need to associate that with Ron Paul? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Ron Paul doesn't even believe in that.

We do EVENTUALLY need to do something about the machines though. But a couple of days before the straw poll? Someone obviously didn't think this through. If he was as paranoid as I am (I don't live anywhere NEAR Iowa) he should of volunteered to participate as a worker or something.

But FOR THE RECORD, I don't trust those machines, especially after one of the developers testified that it would be easy to rig the machines to skew the results in favor of any candidate.

[jpa]

Reports from Iowa say this is losing us votes

http://ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=120673&postcount=64

[Electrostatic]

OMFG, Anyone who can't see how much this will hurt us is %^%^.... The people voting in the straw poll tomorrow ARE the Iowa GOP... For Christ's sake.