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christagious
02-08-2008, 11:11 AM
Okay, I looked up the definition of a BC:
A brokered convention refers to a situation in United States politics where there are not enough delegates obtained during the presidential primary and caucus process for a single candidate to obtain a majority for the presidential nominating convention. Since no candidates receive enough votes on the first ballot to win the nomination, the convention is brokered through political horse-trading and multiple ballots.


What I don't understand is how we could even win one since the establishment favors McCain. What's going to stop the uncommitted delegates from just going towards McCain, or even Huckabee?

Can somebody explain this to me so that I can explain it to other people?

IRO-bot
02-08-2008, 11:12 AM
The whole point was us becoming those delegates.

fedup100
02-08-2008, 11:15 AM
Here is the answer and it is Paul's secret plan.......

PLEASE READ THE EMAILS BELOW TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE CAN WIN. THE FOLLOWING LINK IS ALSO A GOOD READ. PLEASE GO TO YOUR CAUCUS AND BECOME A DELEGATE. Thanks for all you are doing to save our country!

The Strategy is Working... A Must Read...
http://ron-paul-campaign.blogspot.com/2008/02/super-tuesday-winner.html
----- Original Message -----
Becoming a delegate takes less time than it does to read the following:


PEOPLE PLEASE READ THIS SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THAT WE CAN WIN THE NOMINATION AND STOP LISTENING TO THE MSM FOR YOUR INFO!
Posted February 6th, 2008 by SGP

I hope someone will put this on the front page so it doesn't get lost.

The MSM is not reporting how to become the nominee in a situation like this so I will tell you to stop getting your info from the MSM.

I know many of you are bummed about yesterday BUT THAT IS BECAUSE YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW THE ELECTION SYSTEM WORKS : Let me explain to you the reality of how to become the nominee.

First stop looking at who wins each states popular vote for most of these states the vote by the people is really nothing but a straw poll and have no real bearing on who will become the nominee. The only way this matters i s if 1 person receives 1192 delegates that are bound by state rules to be committed to that candidate. So if a candidate like McCain has 600 delegates now and he doesn't reach 1192 most of the delegates the state awarded him mean nothing and keep in mind in most of the states most of the people that represent the 600 for McCain are actually Ron Paul supporters. NOW there is no possible way that anyone in the race can achieve this goal now because of the major split in state wins by the candidates.

So what happens now you ask? You look at the number of delegates that Dr. Paul has that are uncommitted to the other candidates and will support him. these delegates are not decided by the popular vote ie: straw poll of the people. Since no one will have enough delegates to skate them through to the nomination we now must look at how many delegates NOT VOTES but delegates Dr. Paul has that are 100% uncommitted to the other candidates and will be 100% for Dr. Paul and are free to vote for whom they wish.

This race will go all the way to the convention for there is no other way for someone to receive the nomination until the convention.

The RNC will convene its annual Winter Meeting - and voters will continue to cast their ballots in the nation's primaries and caucuses. Candidates for delegate and alternate delegate to the convention will be elected - and thousands of convention participants and guests will begin planning their trips to Minneapolis-Saint Paul The first week in September 2008

SO WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN?

This means that all of the people that registered to become a delegate for Dr. Paul can go to the convention and cast their vote for Dr. Paul, now think about what i just said : Do you think for one second that all the people that voted for Dr. Paul and filed to become a delegate will not show up at the convention to vote for the good Doctor? Of course they will just like they battled the rain and the sleet and the 15 below zero winter weather to knock on doors and wave signs spreading our message.

Now i assure you that even though we didn't win the popular vote in many states WE DID PICK UP THE MAJORITY OF DELEGATES THAN ALL THE OTHER CANDIDATES IN MOST EVERY STATE EXCEPT A FEW. So yes they won the straw poll and we won what counts which is delegates.

Doesn't Dr. Paul need to WIN 5 states to be on the ballot at the convention for the nomination?

NO THIS IS NOT TRUE for people were just confused on how it actually works.

We only need the majority of delegates from 5 states to be put on the ballot NOT THE POPULAR VOTE OF 5 STATES and i assure you we have picked up the majority of uncommitted delegates for Dr. Paul in more than 5 states.

Do any of you remember seeing posts by myself and many others that said BECOME A DELEGATE? There is still time in most states to become a delegate for the convention and we are picking up more of them every day.

So please STOP you worry too much because you do not understand how the election system works and you thought we lost didn't you?

The fact is Dr. Paul is a genius in his strategy and we are further ahead in delegates than you think and we can win the nomination.

I hope this gives a better understanding of how we have been winning even though most of you thought we were not.

NOW LETS KEEP WORKING!

Dr. Steve Parent




--
This message was sent by Stuart Grant (boulder@dccnet.com) from The Bellingham Ron Paul 2008 Meetup Group.
To learn more about Stuart Grant, visit his/her member profile

DealzOnWheelz
02-08-2008, 11:18 AM
they don't committ until they are at the convention

So basically at the convention our goal as delegates for Ron Paul is to convince enough of the other delegates that the ONLY WAY THE GOP can get in the White House is with Ron Paul


Ron will get to speak at the convention.


We will use polls that show Ron Paul doing tremendously well against democrat candidates(especially Hitlery) And then we bring out the statistics


70% of Americans want out of Iraq
Gop has dropped in members by like 20%
exit polls show ROn Paul with a good amount of Independant and Democrat support


At the COnvention all people will be thinking is how to get the GOP in the WHitehouse

Most of them are party pullers and will do WHATEVER IS BEST FOR THE PARTY

So we must sell them on ROn Paul as being That.

And if we do that then EVERYTHING CHANGES


MEDIA MUST ACKNOWLEDGE US AND THEN WE GET FUNDS FROM THE NAT'L GOP

AND THEN WE WIN

fabijo
02-08-2008, 11:27 AM
What I don't understand is how we could even win one since the establishment favors McCain. What's going to stop the uncommitted delegates from just going towards McCain, or even Huckabee?

Can somebody explain this to me so that I can explain it to other people?

Read the long story in my signature on the Republican National Convention in 1880. The GOP was mainly pulling for Grant and thought they had it in the bag. He was close, but not close enough to get majority vote. The balloting went on for days before just ONE SINGLE DELEGATE cast his vote for James Garfield - someone who wasn't even running for President.

Later, 16 more delegates voted for Garfield. Then Blaine figured to send his delegates to vote for Garfield since the convention was getting nowhere. Then Sherman did the same thing. James Garfield won the Republican Nomination, then went on to win the presidency.

I just read that story yesterday because someone on these boards linked to it. It is very inspiring to think of the possibilities when things start going a little chaotic.

Vet_from_cali
02-08-2008, 11:28 AM
dont you need to win 5 states to be able to participate in the convention?

Seanmc30
02-08-2008, 11:34 AM
Now i assure you that even though we didn't win the popular vote in many states WE DID PICK UP THE MAJORITY OF DELEGATES THAN ALL THE OTHER CANDIDATES IN MOST EVERY STATE EXCEPT A FEW. So yes they won the straw poll and we won what counts which is delegates.


Holy crap, I didnt know this....wait, I thought we only had 42 while McCain had 600? How does that work?

ambiguousscion
02-08-2008, 11:36 AM
Here is another explanation: http://ron-paul-campaign.blogspot.com/2008/02/brokered-convention-gop-nomination-five.html

noztnac
02-08-2008, 11:41 AM
The GOP nomination is tainted. A 3rd Party run is the only way.

ambiguousscion
02-08-2008, 11:52 AM
3rd Party run won't happen, it would have already had to start.

familydog
02-08-2008, 11:55 AM
Here is the answer and it is Paul's secret plan.......

PLEASE READ THE EMAILS BELOW TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE CAN WIN. THE FOLLOWING LINK IS ALSO A GOOD READ. PLEASE GO TO YOUR CAUCUS AND BECOME A DELEGATE. Thanks for all you are doing to save our country!

The Strategy is Working... A Must Read...
http://ron-paul-campaign.blogspot.com/2008/02/super-tuesday-winner.html
----- Original Message -----
Becoming a delegate takes less time than it does to read the following:


PEOPLE PLEASE READ THIS SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THAT WE CAN WIN THE NOMINATION AND STOP LISTENING TO THE MSM FOR YOUR INFO!
Posted February 6th, 2008 by SGP

I hope someone will put this on the front page so it doesn't get lost.

The MSM is not reporting how to become the nominee in a situation like this so I will tell you to stop getting your info from the MSM.

I know many of you are bummed about yesterday BUT THAT IS BECAUSE YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW THE ELECTION SYSTEM WORKS : Let me explain to you the reality of how to become the nominee.

First stop looking at who wins each states popular vote for most of these states the vote by the people is really nothing but a straw poll and have no real bearing on who will become the nominee. The only way this matters i s if 1 person receives 1192 delegates that are bound by state rules to be committed to that candidate. So if a candidate like McCain has 600 delegates now and he doesn't reach 1192 most of the delegates the state awarded him mean nothing and keep in mind in most of the states most of the people that represent the 600 for McCain are actually Ron Paul supporters. NOW there is no possible way that anyone in the race can achieve this goal now because of the major split in state wins by the candidates.

So what happens now you ask? You look at the number of delegates that Dr. Paul has that are uncommitted to the other candidates and will support him. these delegates are not decided by the popular vote ie: straw poll of the people. Since no one will have enough delegates to skate them through to the nomination we now must look at how many delegates NOT VOTES but delegates Dr. Paul has that are 100% uncommitted to the other candidates and will be 100% for Dr. Paul and are free to vote for whom they wish.

This race will go all the way to the convention for there is no other way for someone to receive the nomination until the convention.

The RNC will convene its annual Winter Meeting - and voters will continue to cast their ballots in the nation's primaries and caucuses. Candidates for delegate and alternate delegate to the convention will be elected - and thousands of convention participants and guests will begin planning their trips to Minneapolis-Saint Paul The first week in September 2008

SO WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN?

This means that all of the people that registered to become a delegate for Dr. Paul can go to the convention and cast their vote for Dr. Paul, now think about what i just said : Do you think for one second that all the people that voted for Dr. Paul and filed to become a delegate will not show up at the convention to vote for the good Doctor? Of course they will just like they battled the rain and the sleet and the 15 below zero winter weather to knock on doors and wave signs spreading our message.

Now i assure you that even though we didn't win the popular vote in many states WE DID PICK UP THE MAJORITY OF DELEGATES THAN ALL THE OTHER CANDIDATES IN MOST EVERY STATE EXCEPT A FEW. So yes they won the straw poll and we won what counts which is delegates.

Doesn't Dr. Paul need to WIN 5 states to be on the ballot at the convention for the nomination?

NO THIS IS NOT TRUE for people were just confused on how it actually works.

We only need the majority of delegates from 5 states to be put on the ballot NOT THE POPULAR VOTE OF 5 STATES and i assure you we have picked up the majority of uncommitted delegates for Dr. Paul in more than 5 states.

Do any of you remember seeing posts by myself and many others that said BECOME A DELEGATE? There is still time in most states to become a delegate for the convention and we are picking up more of them every day.

So please STOP you worry too much because you do not understand how the election system works and you thought we lost didn't you?

The fact is Dr. Paul is a genius in his strategy and we are further ahead in delegates than you think and we can win the nomination.

I hope this gives a better understanding of how we have been winning even though most of you thought we were not.

NOW LETS KEEP WORKING!

Dr. Steve Parent




--
This message was sent by Stuart Grant (boulder@dccnet.com) from The Bellingham Ron Paul 2008 Meetup Group.
To learn more about Stuart Grant, visit his/her member profile

Why do you keep spamming this?

Campusanis
02-08-2008, 11:58 AM
I know that we picked up many more uncomitted delegates but are some of those really officially listed for other candidates? This would of course greatly change the numbers (and remember we've got lots of weird MSM reports about delegate distribution in some states).

andrewk78
02-08-2008, 12:02 PM
Holy crap, I didnt know this....wait, I thought we only had 42 while McCain had 600? How does that work?

Don't rely on the MSM for your data.
Our whole plan from the get go as I understand it was this. We have the zealous supporters who will show up to the caucuses and go on and vote for only Dr. Paul. From what I understand the MSM "awards" delegates like this.

X state has 10 delegates, and has a non binding straw poll. The straw poll results come back for Z. Nominee and he has taken 50% in the NON BINDING straw poll state wide. Therefore the MSM assumes that Z. Nominee will get 5 delegates. This is not how it will work though. I would even go as far as to say that in states that are not winner take all Dr. Paul has more delegates than any other candidate.
If this is not how it works someone correct me. I am a delegate to the county caucus and do you think there is any way in hell that I will ever vote for any non Ron Paul supporter? No RP supporter who is a delegate will ever for for someone other then RP. Read the story about the 1880 brokered convention.

The majority of straw polls mean NOTHING. I don't understand why everyone thinks the sky is falling. WE SHOULD HAVE KNOW THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

andrewk78
02-08-2008, 12:04 PM
Why do you keep spamming this?

He spams it cause people don't get it yet.

fabijo
02-08-2008, 12:05 PM
Here is another explanation: http://ron-paul-campaign.blogspot.com/2008/02/brokered-convention-gop-nomination-five.html

Thanks for that great info.

deanne
02-08-2008, 12:06 PM
He spams it cause people don't get it yet.

yeah I hadn't seen it before.
is it really true? what are this guy's credentials/occupation (the author)?

familydog
02-08-2008, 12:09 PM
He spams it cause people don't get it yet.

Oh I see. Spamming ok as long as you agree with it.

fabijo
02-08-2008, 12:13 PM
Even if Ron Paul does not get 5 states before the convention, and if the convention goes into a brokered convention, couldn't Ron Paul "demonstrate the support of a majority of the delegates from each of five (5) or more states" by the delegates from some states during the convention?

I don't read anywhere in the rules that the five state minimum needs to be acquired prior to the convention. It just says prior to the nomination.

AUwarrior
02-08-2008, 12:19 PM
Oh I see. Spamming ok as long as you agree with it.

This thread is about a brokered convention and his info is related to that so I dont see how it is spam.

andrewk78
02-08-2008, 12:37 PM
Even if Ron Paul does not get 5 states before the convention, and if the convention goes into a brokered convention, couldn't Ron Paul "demonstrate the support of a majority of the delegates from each of five (5) or more states" by the delegates from some states during the convention?

I don't read anywhere in the rules that the five state minimum needs to be acquired prior to the convention. It just says prior to the nomination.

correct

fedup100
02-08-2008, 12:44 PM
dont you need to win 5 states to be able to participate in the convention?

uh read the post, the answer is NO!

Doesn't Dr. Paul need to WIN 5 states to be on the ballot at the convention for the nomination?

NO THIS IS NOT TRUE for people were just confused on how it actually works.

We only need the majority of delegates from 5 states to be put on the ballot NOT THE POPULAR VOTE OF 5 STATES and i assure you we have picked up the majority of uncommitted delegates for Dr. Paul in more than 5 states.

Madsci30
02-08-2008, 12:49 PM
Ron Paul will be able to give a speech to all the delagates at the convention. The media won't be able to mess with that. So we would hope that when the delegates hear the message they get hooked like we did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4xW35x0f9U

fedup100
02-08-2008, 12:51 PM
Why do you keep spamming this?

I keep posting this to every downer troll post and to all the links of the lost and wandering who are jumping ship and keep asking the same question over and over.....how can he win now?

The real spam on this forum is the millions of posts that start with.........."Well it's over", "Should we stop giving to the campaign", "Sorry to say, but I say now we go Huck or whatever", "So why is being a delegate important", "How can he win now, he didn't take one state".......ad nauseum. Why is there nothing from the campaign? Well read my post over and over until you get it. You have heard from the campaign, this is their game plan and it is working.

We need all supporters to read it and understand it and apply it. We need people to get excited because they are winning and do not know it.

We need to get back on the ship and give him the money he needs to go all the way to the convention!!

fedup100
02-08-2008, 12:53 PM
yeah I hadn't seen it before.
is it really true? what are this guy's credentials/occupation (the author)?

The Bellingham Washington meetup group.

RickNHouston
02-08-2008, 12:55 PM
THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE MUST ATTEND .... THE PRE-CURSOR TO THE NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONVENTION ... WE NEED TO GET SOMETHING ORGANIZED FOR THIS .... HUGE GLOBAL ENERGY NEWS COVERAGE... WE NEED 100,000 PAULITES AT THIS CONVENTION! !!

http://www.houstonspresidentialsummit.com/


BRING IT ON McCAINIACS !!!

Bradley in DC
02-08-2008, 12:57 PM
Here is the answer and it is Paul's secret plan.......

PLEASE READ THE EMAILS BELOW TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE CAN WIN. THE FOLLOWING LINK IS ALSO A GOOD READ. PLEASE GO TO YOUR CAUCUS AND BECOME A DELEGATE. Thanks for all you are doing to save our country!

The Strategy is Working... A Must Read...
http://ron-paul-campaign.blogspot.com/2008/02/super-tuesday-winner.html

That post is a load of crap

Analysis and recommendations have to be very state-specific. Taking info for one state and urging it in other states with different rules is counter-productive--which is exactly what you're doing here.

On top of that, there is just so much totally bad information here.

First stop looking at who wins each states popular vote for most of these states the vote by the people is really nothing but a straw poll and have no real bearing on who will become the nominee. The only way this matters is if 1 person receives 1192 delegates that are bound by state rules to be commited to that candidate. NOW there is no possible way that anyone in the race can achieve this goal now because of the major split in state wins by the candidates.

This is a load of crap on so many levels: votes do have bearing on choosing delegates that choose the nominee; one can get 1192 votes from unbound and bound delegates; there are enough votes outstanding for McCain to win outright.


Now i assure you that even though we didn’t win the popular vote in many states WE DID PICK UP THE MAJORITY OF DELEGATES THAN ALL THE OTHER CANDIDATES IN MOST EVERY STATE EXCEPT A FEW. So yes they won the straw poll and we won what counts which is delegates.

[Redacted by Moderator]


Do any of you remember seeing posts by myself and many others that said BECOME A DELEGATE? There is still time in most states to become a delegate for the convention and we are picking up more of them every day.

fedup100
02-08-2008, 12:59 PM
Thanks Bradley for clearing that up for me and 35k other ex supporters, I will now vote for someone else and I am sure the majority of the Paul supporters will do the same, thanks again.

jacmicwag
02-08-2008, 01:05 PM
Well, the rules are quite different from state to state - that I know for sure. Let's just get as many elected delegates as we can and go from there.

Bradley in DC
02-08-2008, 01:05 PM
Thanks Bradley for clearing that up for me and 35k other ex supporters, I will now vote for someone else and I am sure the majority of the Paul supporters will do the same, thanks again.

[Redacted by Moderator] If you want Dr. Paul to win, learn the rules in your state, play the game and keep working.

[Redacted by Moderator]

familydog
02-08-2008, 01:06 PM
That post is a load of crap

Analysis and recommendations have to be very state-specific. Taking info for one state and urging it in other states with different rules is counter-productive--which is exactly what you're doing here.

On top of that, there is just so much totally bad information here.


This is a load of crap on so many levels: votes do have bearing on choosing delegates that choose the nominee; one can get 1192 votes from unbound and bound delegates; there are enough votes outstanding for McCain to win outright.



[edit for quote]

Hence my spam comment.

fedup100
02-08-2008, 01:11 PM
How dare you talk to me in that manner. Answer the above post with the facts then and the truth you seem to holding only unto yourself. You are the one that needs to grow up, you just shot your best shot at Ron Paul's campaign to tank it for good. Your the big expert are so it seems, so break it down big expert with truth and facts as to how that post was a load of crap.

Can you be helpful with your vast knowledge. Can you try to use common sense when you make a post like, how might this affect someone that reads this. Or, can you tell me how your response the my post was beneficial to the campaign?

dawnbt
02-08-2008, 01:12 PM
That post is a load of crap

Analysis and recommendations have to be very state-specific. Taking info for one state and urging it in other states with different rules is counter-productive--which is exactly what you're doing here.

On top of that, there is just so much totally bad information here.


This is a load of crap on so many levels: votes do have bearing on choosing delegates that choose the nominee; one can get 1192 votes from unbound and bound delegates; there are enough votes outstanding for McCain to win outright.



[edit for quote]


I couldn't disagree with you more. This is a great post! Thank you OP for the wonderful and informative post!

JulioForPaul
02-08-2008, 01:19 PM
Why does Bradley in DC shit on any thread that is telling us the truth. The "spam" thread is not "full of crap". It is mostly true. Sure, there are different rules for each state, but most of the delegates will be unbound in a brokered convention. That is the point of his posts. Delegates do matter and Ron Paul is doing very well in this regard.

If you (Bradley in DC) have any facts as to why Ron Paul supporters should give up, PLEASE SHARE. You are adding nothing constructive whatsoever.

PaulTriumph
02-08-2008, 01:22 PM
[QUOTE=fedup100;1218331]Here is the answer and it is Paul's secret plan.......

PLEASE READ THE EMAILS BELOW TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE CAN WIN. THE FOLLOWING LINK IS ALSO A GOOD READ. PLEASE GO TO YOUR CAUCUS AND BECOME A DELEGATE. Thanks for all you are doing to save our country!

The Strategy is Working... A Must Read...
http://ron-paul-campaign.blogspot.com/2008/02/super-tuesday-winner.html

WOW, I knew Dr. Paul had a plan, but I never even guessed it would be THIS genius!! Of course he is just biding his time until the convention gets closer. WHy else would he be sitting on all those donations when the other campaigns are going broke scrambling after their so-called primary "victories"? And look who's dropping out and who's still standing!!

WE WILL PREVAIL-- ON TO THE BROKERED CONVENTION!!

JulioForPaul
02-08-2008, 01:22 PM
And why are all the "brokered convention" threads being moved to a part of the board where no one sees it. As of today this is probably the most important subject for the grassroots of Ron Paul supporters. This is the whole point of the Ron Paul campaign.

Feelgood
02-08-2008, 01:43 PM
Here is the answer and it is Paul's secret plan.......snip

Please stop spamming the forums with this post? It is really getting old...

@Mods:

Can you please do something about all the spam? This is ridiculous already. :(

MsDoodahs
02-08-2008, 01:51 PM
And why are all the "brokered convention" threads being moved to a part of the board where no one sees it. As of today this is probably the most important subject for the grassroots of Ron Paul supporters. This is the whole point of the Ron Paul campaign.

Information on the brokered convention has been moved for several days now. This is not new. The best route to take, for now, is to start topics on that subject in the National Convention subforum.

Third party threads should be started in the Alternatives to Official Campaign subforum in Central.

Hope that helps. :)

MN Patriot
02-08-2008, 01:57 PM
And why are all the "brokered convention" threads being moved to a part of the board where no one sees it. As of today this is probably the most important subject for the grassroots of Ron Paul supporters. This is the whole point of the Ron Paul campaign.

Yes, every Ron Paul supporter should have been clearly and repeatedly told that this is the strategy of the campaign. They should have explained how this will work long ago. But then of course the neo-cons would have been prepared for us showing up to the caucuses and nominated their own delegates.

Personally, I think the brokered convention plan is a bad one if that is truly the intention. A brokered nominee is weak, not a great amount of support from the party members. I am hoping that Ron switches parties and runs as a Libertarian, so that it will be guaranteed that he is on the ballot in November, and have his supporters focus on getting the word out to the American people rather than being involved in backroom party political struggles with Republicans.

The Libertarian Party should be on the ballot in all 50 states. Every congressional district will have a LP candidate running with Ron's name recognition. A third of the states will have Senate LP candidates repeating the same thing Ron is saying. Plus hundreds of state legislature candidates for the LP, and governors, etc.

andrewk78
02-08-2008, 02:01 PM
Yeah just pack it up and move on. WTF

Regardless of what happens I follow Dr. Paul to whatever end. This is about so much more then him. Can you ever go back to the way things were again? Can you be happy siting back and know there is a better way? Go vote for someone else stfu and get the hell out. I am so damn tired of all these people.

We live in a country that is nothing more then a former shadow of itself. I vote for Dr. Paul if for no other reason then to make a point. The good doctor if nothing else is getting enough votes that the powers that be are going to have to notice. Things from here on out will NEVER be the same. I will never be the same. I will never again be able to sit back and watch this once wonderful country destroy itself.

We need to give each other hope and continue to move this platform forward. If all you plan to do is vote for Dr. Paul and if he doesn't win you are done, then it's been nice knowing ya thanks for the vote see ya later. As much as we would like to change the country over night it probably wont happen. We need to be in this for the long haul and not fading away because of a few minor setbacks.

Are you in this to win? Or are you in this as long as things go good?

Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill.

Bradley in DC
02-08-2008, 04:24 PM
Here is another explanation: http://ron-paul-campaign.blogspot.com/2008/02/brokered-convention-gop-nomination-five.html

It is not "another" explanation--it is the same load of crap that have I have been debunking here and elsewhere.

tank
02-08-2008, 05:20 PM
Bradley... why do you keep saying it's crap? Are you a precinct captain? If so, which precinct and what's your district number? This would help clear up a lot since you claim to know so much. What experience do you have? Please let us know the facts rather than your opinion.

On the daily paul, there are MANY people who are delegates and precinct captains that said this is exactly how it works and agreed with the post -- but rules vary from state to state. The author even said that in his post.

I've read through the GOP rules myself and there are so many loop holes, that in all honesty, you'd have to be a lawyer to understand everything stated. So unless you're a lawyer, I think this strategy is actually right on the money since most others that are, in fact delegates, approved it on DP.

Liberté
02-08-2008, 05:37 PM
We only need the majority of delegates from 5 states to be put on the ballot NOT THE POPULAR VOTE OF 5 STATES and i assure you we have picked up the majority of uncommitted delegates for Dr. Paul in more than 5 states.
[/COLOR][/SIZE]

According to RonPaul2008.com we have 42 National Delegates, and by their own estimate we do not have the majority in any state... What are you talking about??



With the results of many of the “Super Tuesday” primaries and caucuses now finalized, the Ron Paul campaign is now projecting that it has at least 42 delegates to the national convention secured.

Lou337
02-08-2008, 05:43 PM
According to RonPaul2008.com we have 42 National Delegates, and by their own estimate we do not have the majority in any state... What are you talking about??

He's talking about how a very good portion of McCain's delegates are RP supporters. They will be the majority when they vote, the majority for the states they represent. They will be representing Paul as well.

Liberté
02-08-2008, 06:03 PM
He's talking about how a very good portion of McCain's delegates are RP supporters. They will be the majority when they vote, the majority for the states they represent. They will be representing Paul as well.

There is no state where we have the majority of delegates (pledged to another candidate or not.) As far as I can see the only chance we would have is in LA, if we won the lawsuit there AND the Pro-life party voted for Ron Paul too. <--- I wouldn't count on that.

From what it looks like to me McCain will probably have a couple hundred extra delegates more then the required 1191 at the Convention.. so it should all be done in vote 1.

I really don't get all the energy people are putting into a brokered convention idea, it wouldn't work. Instead I would like to see people focus more on grass roots candidates, and getting as many National Delegates for Ron Paul so he can walk into the Convention with a 100+ delegates.. that would make a strong statement.

Zeeder
02-08-2008, 06:04 PM
According to RonPaul2008.com we have 42 National Delegates, and by their own estimate we do not have the majority in any state... What are you talking about??

Until the delegates are actually selected to got to the National Convention Nobody has a majority. What is is talking about is that if Ron Paul Supporters are a majority of those delegates(people).........that is all that is needed in 5 states to be nominated AND suspend rules, raise cain etc....

The way the rules read we don't have to even have a majority of Ron Paul supporters in five states. We could simply have a majority of delegates that hate mccain with enought passion to suspend rules and have a debate or nominate someone else ie: Fred Thompson Ghandi whoever.

No1ButPaul08
02-08-2008, 06:04 PM
Bradley... why do you keep saying it's crap? Are you a precinct captain? If so, which precinct and what's your district number? This would help clear up a lot since you claim to know so much. What experience do you have? Please let us know the facts rather than your opinion.

On the daily paul, there are MANY people who are delegates and precinct captains that said this is exactly how it works and agreed with the post -- but rules vary from state to state. The author even said that in his post.

I've read through the GOP rules myself and there are so many loop holes, that in all honesty, you'd have to be a lawyer to understand everything stated. So unless you're a lawyer, I think this strategy is actually right on the money since most others that are, in fact delegates, approved it on DP.

Because it is crap. McCain is steamrolling to the nomination and yet people seem to think a brokered convention is going to be a lock. At best there's a 5% chance of a brokered convention. Bradley knows more about this process than 99.999% of this board. So do I. We are currently putting together the "facts" so people can see how dire the situation is, and what needs to be done

Zeeder
02-08-2008, 06:14 PM
Because it is crap. McCain is steamrolling to the nomination and yet people seem to think a brokered convention is going to be a lock. At best there's a 5% chance of a brokered convention. Bradley knows more about this process than 99.999% of this board. So do I. We are currently putting together the "facts" so people can see how dire the situation is, and what needs to be done

5% is pretty good odds compared to the chances that Ron Paul would even make it this far.

And your wrong. If we have 5 states with majority Ron Paul Supporters as delegates(Not states he won. Not delegates he won). Then there is a 100% chance of brokered convention by Suspending the rules. See Rule 32.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/34775

Now the question is can we get our people as delegates in 5 states. Nevada , louisiana are both possibilities.

Liberté
02-08-2008, 06:27 PM
Because it is crap. McCain is steamrolling to the nomination and yet people seem to think a brokered convention is going to be a lock. At best there's a 5% chance of a brokered convention. Bradley knows more about this process than 99.999% of this board. So do I. We are currently putting together the "facts" so people can see how dire the situation is, and what needs to be done

You are right there No1, there is about a 99%+ that McCain will wrap up the nomination in Vote 1. When Romney dropped out he basically endorsed McCain. Romney and Fred are meeting with McCain this week to discuss conservative voter issues and how best to unite the party for McCAIN. Huckabee is practically drooling over a Veep possiblity.

The party is closing ranks around McCain, by the time convention comes around he will sweep it... Republicans are nothing if not good at closing rank. The fact that McCain wasn't egged at the C-Pac should demonstrated that.

I know of not a single state where we can get a majority of delegates, even those pledged to another candidate. Don't look backwards for this, if we are going to get 5 states it will be in the coming months. But don't fool yourself, even in a brokered convention (which is almost impossible) Ron Paul winning a brokered convention is ALMOST Impossible.. we are talking about a 1/10000 shot.

tank
02-08-2008, 06:58 PM
Because it is crap. McCain is steamrolling to the nomination and yet people seem to think a brokered convention is going to be a lock. At best there's a 5% chance of a brokered convention. Bradley knows more about this process than 99.999% of this board. So do I. We are currently putting together the "facts" so people can see how dire the situation is, and what needs to be done

Let me ask you this -- Romney dropped out, right? Yet he won all those supposed delegates from the states, around 200+ delegates. But WHERE does it say in the rules that those states are still bound to any candidate if they drop out of the race, even if transferred? If Romney transfers the delegates to McCain, where does it say in the rules that the delegates can be transferable and they are still BOUND to that transfer during the first ballot process?

I sent an email off to Real Clear Politics to have them investigate this as well, and they wrote me back saying "Interesting point, we'll look into it." They said they would get back to me.

Bradley in DC
02-08-2008, 07:08 PM
Bradley... why do you keep saying it's crap? Are you a precinct captain? If so, which precinct and what's your district number? This would help clear up a lot since you claim to know so much. What experience do you have? Please let us know the facts rather than your opinion.

On the daily paul, there are MANY people who are delegates and precinct captains that said this is exactly how it works and agreed with the post -- but rules vary from state to state. The author even said that in his post.

I've read through the GOP rules myself and there are so many loop holes, that in all honesty, you'd have to be a lawyer to understand everything stated. So unless you're a lawyer, I think this strategy is actually right on the money since most others that are, in fact delegates, approved it on DP.

Let me repost again, my comments that no one refutes:
there is just so much totally bad information here.

First stop looking at who wins each states popular vote for most of these states the vote by the people is really nothing but a straw poll and have no real bearing on who will become the nominee. The only way this matters is if 1 person receives 1192 delegates that are bound by state rules to be commited to that candidate. NOW there is no possible way that anyone in the race can achieve this goal now because of the major split in state wins by the candidates.

This is a load of crap on so many levels: votes do have bearing on choosing delegates that choose the nominee; one can get 1192 votes from unbound and bound delegates; there are enough votes outstanding for McCain to win outright.


Now i assure you that even though we didn’t win the popular vote in many states WE DID PICK UP THE MAJORITY OF DELEGATES THAN ALL THE OTHER CANDIDATES IN MOST EVERY STATE EXCEPT A FEW. So yes they won the straw poll and we won what counts which is delegates.

This is just delusional ranting: someone call for a straight-jacket. The delusions are based on an understanding of the process from Anson's site that is, to be charitable, well-meaning but laughable:


Do any of you remember seeing posts by myself and many others that said BECOME A DELEGATE? There is still time in most states to become a delegate for the convention and we are picking up more of them every day.

Let me add that McCain won California and other primary states where the candidate himself picks his slate of "delegate candidates" who support him. The voters then chose them as delegates to the convention. NONE of them are "stealth" Paul supporters, much less a majority of them. It is a load of crap from a delusional post.

Bradley in DC
02-08-2008, 07:14 PM
5% is pretty good odds compared to the chances that Ron Paul would even make it this far.

And your wrong. If we have 5 states with majority Ron Paul Supporters as delegates(Not states he won. Not delegates he won). Then there is a 100% chance of brokered convention by Suspending the rules. See Rule 32.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/34775

Now the question is can we get our people as delegates in 5 states. Nevada , louisiana are both possibilities.

It's good you're looking at the RNC by-laws. I've been posting them here many, many times. What you show is that if we get a majority of delegates in five states, we are eligible to be nominated. That's all. It does NOT show a 100% chance of brokered convention. To suspend the rules we'd need another state too. But ask yourself, why would McCain delegates want to change the rules against themselves?

No1ButPaul08
02-08-2008, 07:19 PM
5% is pretty good odds compared to the chances that Ron Paul would even make it this far.

And your wrong. If we have 5 states with majority Ron Paul Supporters as delegates(Not states he won. Not delegates he won). Then there is a 100% chance of brokered convention by Suspending the rules. See Rule 32.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/34775

Now the question is can we get our people as delegates in 5 states. Nevada , louisiana are both possibilities.

It takes a majority or delegates to MOTION to suspend the rules. It would still need a majority vote.

That would be like saying it takes a majority of 5 states to win the nomination. It's just like getting on the convention ballot. It takes a majority of 5 states to MOTION RP getting on the convention ballot.

Is this right Bradley?

Bradley in DC
02-08-2008, 07:26 PM
uh read the post, the answer is NO!

Doesn't Dr. Paul need to WIN 5 states to be on the ballot at the convention for the nomination?

NO THIS IS NOT TRUE for people were just confused on how it actually works.

We only need the majority of delegates from 5 states to be put on the ballot NOT THE POPULAR VOTE OF 5 STATES and i assure you we have picked up the majority of uncommitted delegates for Dr. Paul in more than 5 states.


Fedup,

We're all disappointed with the official campaign staff. Repeatedly citing the delusional rantings of a madman does not win us the nomination.

We're all frustrated and emotions are high because we all here care so much for the future of our country. What is important is for us to remain focused on winning as many national convention delegates as possible. This is half time.

The blog post you keep citing is wrong. Plain and simple. I have shown here repeatedly: McCain can get the nomination from votes from bound and unbound delegates no matter what the lunatic says. He tries to parse the five state rule in ways that are absolutely contrary to their meaning.

We have not (yet?!) won a majority of delegates in any state yet. Period.

Rather than fighting among ourselves (and I'm sorry you took personally comments directed to the substance of a blog post NOT to you), we need to work together to win as many delegates as possible in the second half of the contests.

The five state rule says, as you correctly point out here, that we need a majority of delegates from five states in order to be nominated. The blog post you cite twists and turns clear rules into what he wishes, not to what reality is.

The reality is that all of us here on this forum are on the same side and need to work together. I've explained why that site is wrong and no one has refuted my analysis. I've been posting the RNC by-laws on this forum for many, many months. I and a few others have been poring over them to make sure we are as successful as possible.

NoMoreApathy
02-08-2008, 07:29 PM
they don't committ until they are at the convention

So basically at the convention our goal as delegates for Ron Paul is to convince enough of the other delegates that the ONLY WAY THE GOP can get in the White House is with Ron Paul


Ron will get to speak at the convention.


We will use polls that show Ron Paul doing tremendously well against democrat candidates(especially Hitlery) And then we bring out the statistics


70% of Americans want out of Iraq
Gop has dropped in members by like 20%
exit polls show ROn Paul with a good amount of Independant and Democrat support


At the COnvention all people will be thinking is how to get the GOP in the WHitehouse

Most of them are party pullers and will do WHATEVER IS BEST FOR THE PARTY

So we must sell them on ROn Paul as being That.

And if we do that then EVERYTHING CHANGES


MEDIA MUST ACKNOWLEDGE US AND THEN WE GET FUNDS FROM THE NAT'L GOP

AND THEN WE WIN

In better times in this country, that may have been the case. Not anymore though.

The establishment is not just the GOP establishment, or the Democratic establishment. Parties, sides of the aisle, those are paradigms. Both parties have been hijacked, and there are goals bigger than perceived party goals.

We all know that war and death will continue under a Hillary presidency, and probably an Obama presidency, considering how much he panders to AIPAC.

More war and global hegemony has pretty much been the stated status-quo. A Ron Paul presidency threatens EVERY BIT of that status-quo.

A Ron Paul presidency will never happen under the conditions you listed.

Either America wakes up and a healthy majority demands Ron Paul, or the status-quo continues. It's the only way.

fedup100
02-08-2008, 07:31 PM
Thank you for this post. i agree we are or should be working towards the same goal.

Now, with that said, you clearly point out that he cannot win a brokered convention and that McCain has it wrapped up, then you go on to say we need to get as many delegates as possible going forward?

I'm sorry, I do not understand why we need the delegates if it is pointless.

tank
02-08-2008, 07:36 PM
It's good you're looking at the RNC by-laws. I've been posting them here many, many times. What you show is that if we get a majority of delegates in five states, we are eligible to be nominated. That's all. It does NOT show a 100% chance of brokered convention. To suspend the rules we'd need another state too. But ask yourself, why would McCain delegates want to change the rules against themselves?

There is no guarantee of brokered convention -- and for anyone to think 100% chance would be foolish. To suspend the rules, you might have Michigan too -- because right now there are some delegates asking for help because they are all unbound and vote shortly. There are some people in the Daily Paul asking for help on this matter now. A Michigan delegate said this on a blog post:

"All of Michigan's delegates were declared uncommitted when Romney dropped out. Next week we go to Lansing to vote for National delegates. Michigan may still send national delegates for Ron Paul. Send out the signs, get out in your district and let people know Dr. Paul has strong support. I will need point to you to get other delegates enthused. They are looking for anything but McCain."

So all hope is not lost. It will be very difficult to get a brokered convention though, this I agree with, however it's not at all impossible. To think so would be the opinion of a pessimist -- which means he probably picked the Patriots over the Giants too. :D

tank
02-08-2008, 08:06 PM
The reality is that all of us here on this forum are on the same side and need to work together. I've explained why that site is wrong and no one has refuted my analysis. I've been posting the RNC by-laws on this forum for many, many months. I and a few others have been poring over them to make sure we are as successful as possible.

Let me ask you this Brad -- Romney dropped out, right? Yet he won all those supposed delegates from the states, around 200+ delegates. But WHERE does it say in the rules that those states are still bound to any candidate if they drop out of the race, even if transferred? If Romney transfers the delegates to McCain, where does it say in the rules that the delegates can be transferable and they are still BOUND to vote for the endorsed candidate during the first ballot process?

My point is, if they are NOT BOUND during the first ballot, then this means that ALL of Romney's delegates can vote for anyone they choose. And if they can, then the odds just went up -- maybe not that great, but up nonetheless.

fabijo
02-08-2008, 08:15 PM
I never saw any posts that said we are guaranteed a brokered convention. The whole reason that people want Ron Paul delegates is IN CASE there is a brokered convention. Sure, some states have the delegates chosen by the candidate that gets them. Other states just let any Republicans become delegates. They're bound by what the caucuses and primaries decided (at least for the first round, and sometimes the second and third round), but if it becomes a brokered convention, we want those people on our side before they even show up to the convention. That is why it is not useless to fight for delegates in those states that McCain has won or for states that Romney or Huckabee has won.

Yes, our goal is to win as many states as possible. But we definitely want people to become delegates in the states that are still open for delegates - even if they have already had their primary or caucus. We don't want to be left hanging in September if there is a brokered convention and we gave up on delegates we could have squeezed in.

therealjjj77
02-08-2008, 08:42 PM
dont you need to win 5 states to be able to participate in the convention?

That rule is listed under "Temporary Rules" for a reason. When it goes brokered, nearly anything goes. Anyone could end up being the nominee.

tank
02-08-2008, 08:45 PM
They're bound by what the caucuses and primaries decided (at least for the first round, and sometimes the second and third round), but if it becomes a brokered convention, we want those people on our side before they even show up to the convention. That is why it is not useless to fight for delegates in those states that McCain has won or for states that Romney or Huckabee has won.

For all disbelievers, this post pretty much explains the strategy giving us a chance to make a difference.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=116036

It makes perfect sense to me that they are NOT BOUND in the first ballot now because the Candidate who won the state dropped out. And now we have a chance towards doing something about it. Imagine if all the states did this as well. We could get the majority of delegates within all the states Romney won by voting for our own supporters to be state delegates.

Of course this is only for Michigan thus far, but it would make sense to me if all the other states did the same thing.

The question is, what are we going to do about it? Come on Michigan residents, get out there now and become state delegates!!! :)

No1ButPaul08
02-08-2008, 09:02 PM
For all disbelievers, this post pretty much explains the strategy giving us a chance to make a difference.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=116036

It makes perfect sense to me that they are NOT BOUND in the first ballot now because the Candidate who won the state dropped out. And now we have a chance towards doing something about it. Imagine if all the states did this as well. We could get the majority of delegates within all the states Romney won by voting for our own supporters to be state delegates.

Of course this is only for Michigan thus far, but it would make sense to me if all the other states did the same thing.

The question is, what are we going to do about it? Come on Michigan residents, get out there now and become state delegates!!! :)

For all believers, prove to me McCain doesn't have 633 bound and 66 unbound for 699 delegates total. Also 311 are availabe from that states that have voted. McCain is sure to pick up some of those.

fabijo
02-08-2008, 09:09 PM
Okay, yes. McCain can get more delegates. So we should just stop? I really don't understand the goal in discouraging people from trying to become delegates.

noztnac
02-08-2008, 09:13 PM
I go with the second option listed in this article.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/thornton/thornton42.html

No1ButPaul08
02-08-2008, 09:14 PM
Okay, yes. McCain can get more delegates. So we should just stop? I really don't understand the goal in discouraging people from trying to become delegates.

Where have I or Bradley ever discouraged people from becoming delegates. People act like a brokered convention is a lock. We're here to bring people back to reality.

tank
02-08-2008, 09:16 PM
No time - gotta get more delegates for Michigan... but good luck with your plan thingie. :)

Liberté
02-08-2008, 09:18 PM
Let me repost again, my comments that no one refutes:
there is just so much totally bad information here.


This is a load of crap on so many levels: votes do have bearing on choosing delegates that choose the nominee; one can get 1192 votes from unbound and bound delegates; there are enough votes outstanding for McCain to win outright.



This is just delusional ranting: someone call for a straight-jacket. The delusions are based on an understanding of the process from Anson's site that is, to be charitable, well-meaning but laughable:



Let me add that McCain won California and other primary states where the candidate himself picks his slate of "delegate candidates" who support him. The voters then chose them as delegates to the convention. NONE of them are "stealth" Paul supporters, much less a majority of them. It is a load of crap from a delusional post.

You are right on!

tank
02-08-2008, 09:21 PM
Where have I or Bradley ever discouraged people from becoming delegates. People act like a brokered convention is a lock. We're here to bring people back to reality.

The way you both are talking, you are implying that McCain is a lock -- and that is clearly not the case yet. He is ahead but hasn't won anything yet... and that is the reality.

fabijo
02-08-2008, 09:21 PM
Where have I or Bradley ever discouraged people from becoming delegates. People act like a brokered convention is a lock. We're here to bring people back to reality.

I guess I just haven't been reading where people are saying we're sure to have a brokered convention. People are posting about possibilities because lots of RP supporters are losing heart and need to hear about all the possible situations that give hope. We need to spread encouragement and hope so that people do not give up.

I can see your concern about making sure people aren't led to believe we're definitely having a brokered convention. It just comes across that you are trying to stop people from believing in the possibility, which then sends the message that it is pointless to even become delegates.

tank
02-08-2008, 09:28 PM
I can see your concern about making sure people aren't led to believe we're definitely having a brokered convention. It just comes across that you are trying to stop people from believing in the possibility, which then sends the message that it is pointless to even become delegates.

Exactly. They are sending the message that the ONLY WAY TO WIN is to use their plan to stop McCain. Whether or not that is their intent, that is the way it is coming off.

fabijo
02-08-2008, 09:33 PM
I just read the plan. If we cast our votes to Huck, we run the risk of him getting the nomination. There are still enough delegates left to push Huck over the 1191 barrier. I would hate for the plan to backfire like that.

Liberté
02-08-2008, 09:34 PM
The way you both are talking, you are implying that McCain is a lock -- and that is clearly not the case yet. He is ahead but hasn't won anything yet... and that is the reality.

McCain is a lock, unless he dies or gets convicted of a felony John McCain WILL be the GOP Nominee. :( Heck! Romney, Fred, and Rudy are all supporting him now... even the radio hosts are starting to whine the "well, let’s back McCain over Clinton/Obama). When Huckabee drops, he will support McCain too...

If (and that is a HUGE IF) there was a brokered convention Romney, Fred, etc... Type person would have the best shot... but it wouldn't happen anyway, McCain will take it in the first vote, with plenty of delegates to spare.

This race is over! :( The movement has just begun!!! :) We haven't lost... we have won... and when Ron Paul walks into the National Convention with 100+ delegates that will be a powerful Statement. That is why we need to keep getting delegates.

We learned a lot during this race, 2012 will be better. We have leverage in 2008; remember the GOP candidate probably can't win if RP runs 3rd Party! Ron Paul can wring concessions out of McCain. :D

tank
02-08-2008, 09:38 PM
There is a LOT OF RISK that the brokered convention will even work... but it appears that is the current plan, and whether or not some people disagree, they should still try to participate rather than scream "It's unrealistic" and provoke others for not even trying.

People keep speaking about realities -- well the reality is, if we don't try, then it surely won't work at all.

tank
02-08-2008, 10:25 PM
We learned a lot during this race, 2012 will be better. We have leverage in 2008; remember the GOP candidate probably can't win if RP runs 3rd Party! Ron Paul can wring concessions out of McCain. :D

There's not going to be a third party run. Ron Paul just said so in latest blog post, which was just today. Here is that blog post:

February 8, 2008

Whoa! What a year this has been. And what achievements we have had. If I may quote Trotsky of all people, this Revolution is permanent. It will not end at the Republican convention. It will not end in November. It will not end until we have won the great battle on which we have embarked. Not because of me, but because of you. Millions of Americans -- and friends in many other countries -- have dedicated themselves to the principles of liberty: to free enterprise, limited government, sound money, no income tax, and peace. We will not falter so long as there is one restriction on our persons, our property, our civil liberties. How much I owe you. I can never possibly repay your generous donations, hard work, whole-hearted dedication and love of freedom. How blessed I am to be associated with you. Carol, of course, sends her love as well.

Let me tell you my thoughts. With Romney gone, the chances of a brokered convention are nearly zero. But that does not affect my determination to fight on, in every caucus and primary remaining, and at the convention for our ideas, with just as many delegates as I can get. But with so many primaries and caucuses now over, we do not now need so big a national campaign staff, and so I am making it leaner and tighter. Of course, I am committed to fighting for our ideas within the Republican party, so there will be no third party run. I do not denigrate third parties -- just the opposite, and I have long worked to remove the ballot-access restrictions on them. But I am a Republican, and I will remain a Republican.

I also have another priority. I have constituents in my home district that I must serve. I cannot and will not let them down. And I have another battle I must face here as well. If I were to lose the primary for my congressional seat, all our opponents would react with glee, and pretend it was a rejection of our ideas. I cannot and will not let that happen.

In the presidential race and the congressional race, I need your support, as always. And I have plans to continue fighting for our ideas in politics and education that I will share with you when I can, for I will need you at my side. In the meantime, onward and upward! The neocons, the warmongers, the socialists, the advocates of inflation will be hearing much from you and me.

Sincerely,

Ron

He also mentioned that a brokered convention was next to zero happening. Now that people know THE REALITY, let's get back to business and continue to get those delegates!!