To those leaving the GOP because you don't like the party leadership...

[literatim]

Are you going to renounce your citizenship as well?

[grizzums]

:rolleyes: Not making the connection...

[Delaware]

I'm not sure whether i'm going to stay Republican or join the Libertarian Party.

[Ex Post Facto]

I think he's saying are you giving up?

[Thunderbolt]

Are you going to renounce your citizenship as well?


What kind of question is this? The GOP is a statist organization that wants as much government power as possible. I am against government power. That is why I supported Ron Paul. I did not support Ron Paul because he was in the GOP, I supported him in spite of it.

I am trying to get my country BACK. It has been stolen and I have no desire to let the thieves have it without a fight. I am 64 years old and I will fight until the day I die.

The GOP has stolen our country. The Dems have stolen our country. All statists steal it every single day. The GOP are statist. The Dems are statist.

Ron Paul is fighting against statism.

[grizzums]

I think he's saying are you giving up?

If thats the case...absolutely not....not even close.

I thought maybe he was attempting to correlate wanting to leave (or giving up on) the GOP with wanting to leave (or giving up on) our country.

[jbuttell]

Coming from a Libertarian here (errm, now i'm a republican...) I suggest we wait till the GOP convention. If Ron Paul gets the nod, lets consider staying Republican, otherwise - jump back to whatever pond you came from.

yeah?

.jeremy

[literatim]

It is the people within the party that decides what the party supports. Just like it is the people within our government that decides what it is our government does. If you want to change either, you need to work within the system. There is no going outside the system to change it.

To change our country, you will need to change the party because the two parties are entrenched with all the power. You want to change the party's direction? Work within the local GOP, help set your local platform and get Ron Paul Republicans elected at both local and national levels.

Ron Paul is a Republican and most assuredly will always be a Republican.

[Malakai0]

Or do what the religious right did years ago, and the Republican Liberty Caucus (RP is a member, was a chairman) are trying to do now, take back the republican party from within.

The religous right were extremely successful no? And 3rd parties have never gotten a congressman or better elected, no? Why not go with what works!

See the RLC sticky at the top of this forum... taking back the party (like RP himself decided to try to do after his LP run experience) is a far more achievable goal than creating a viable third party, which hasn't been done for 150 years IIRC. Look how great RP did now compared to as LP in 88. The deck is stacked folks, you gotta infiltrate from within.


This is in the sticky, but it's true so I'll reiterate. If the "Ron Paul Revolution" breaks off into several smaller groups we will lose our power. We should really stick with and become really active in the GOP, and make the republican liberty caucus or some other sub-org within the GOP for ourselves a major power within the party. Look at how much the religious right are pandered too by the R leadership and candidates, we want to do that for ourselves and the constitution! We are stronger together ya know?

[bcreps85]

Our best bet at taking the country back is taking the GOP back, which we can do from the ground up if we stay involved.

[Shink]

I'm in both camps. I hate the GOP as is. I don't think prospects are super positive that we'll change enough of it. However, I am not hopeless about it, I think we can change some ideology. I won't change for now for several reasons: I have yet to complete my delegate process for Ron, and I will vote for Ron Paul Republicans before I switch to anything.

[a2planet2]

A lot of people look at the GOP as having drifted so far from its original principles, and seeing the Democrats promise not to support their principles, are unable to find a home in either.

But having argued for some time against the hegemony of the two parties, I must admit that the idea of raising other parties to the par of the others seems like a bad move right now. Having now become familiar with how the party works, it seems like a colossal effort to develop a third party when the Republicans already have the operation in place (not to mention, a base which, at its heart, largely agrees with us more than the next candidate anyway).

I can't see how it would be more practical to try to topple the GOP from the outside rather than win it from within. It's like knocking down a building and re-building it because all of the lightbulbs were broken, and the people who would have just changed the bulbs decided there were too many to be worth the trouble.

That said, if there's a floor fight at the national convention and the party goes with McCain, and it turns out the building has more problems than just the lightbulbs...

But, it's far too early to make that determination. And if we really support him, we should let Ron be the one to call it.

[tsetsefly]

now is the chance to infiltrate the republican party, dont leave it.

[literatim]

I tell you one thing. Those that leave the party, were never really apart of the movement to begin with.

[RobJinFlorida]

National Campaign Underway!



http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=115814

[Molly1]

We can't leave.

We're all delegates to the National Convention! ;)

[Thunderbolt]

I tell you one thing. Those that leave the party, were never really apart of the movement to begin with.

Those that stay in the GOP don't know what this movement is.


The GOP is not some amorphous group with no substance. It has some very rigid ideals.

Such as:

• Strengthening our Military.
• Deploying a missile defense system.
• Strengthening our ties NATO.
• Protecting the homeland and acheiving a sustained level of success and progress in Iraq.


http://safety.gop.com/GroupPage.aspx? That is the National GOP website link.

and this:


• Providing Support for Faith-Based and Community Organizations
• Support of the New Freedom Initiative, which provides support of freedom and independence for individuals with disabilities
• Support of Partial Birth Abortion Ban and "Connor's Law"

and this:


• A new high school initiative to help states hold high schools accountable for teaching all students and to provide effective interventions for those students who are not learning at grade level.
• Increasing reading skills for America’s striving readers by providing a focus on improving the reading skills of high school students who read below grade level.
• Accelerating mathematics and science achievement dedicated to support projects to accelerate the mathematics achievement of all secondary students, and especially low-achieving students.
• Accelerating student achievement with Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate.
• Promoting Scholastic Achievement with State Scholars.

(For those of you that like Government interference in our schools you will be very happy with this party).

And this:

The President's Advanced Energy Initiative promotes America's four main sources of electricity: coal, nuclear, natural gas, and renewable sources.
• Nuclear Power is abundant and affordable, clean, and safe.
• President Bush is encouraging the research and development of Clean-Coal technologies, which is by far America’s most abundant and affordable energy resource.
• President Bush's FY2007 budget proposed $44 million in funding for wind energy research and other alternative and renewable resources.

(That is 44 million of your money that the GOP is happy to donate to large energy companies. If you are happy with this, then why on earth were you supporting Ron Paul?)

etc. etc. etc.

For those of you that came here for a small governement you will not find it in the official platform of the National Republican Party.

The Libertarian party has this to say:

"Libertarians believe the answer to America's political problems is the same commitment to freedom that earned America its greatness: a free-market economy and the abundance and prosperity it brings; a dedication to civil liberties and personal freedom that marks this country above all others; and a foreign policy of non-intervention, peace, and free trade as prescribed by America's founders."

http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml

I suggest you stick to the party that actually fits your beliefs rather than force feeding your beliefs down other people's throats. If you fit better in the Libertarian party, then perhaps that is where you belong.

[Thunderbolt]

I agree however, that we must all stay in the GOP as long as we will be able to have any effect on Ron Paul becoming President.

[nodope0695]

What kind of question is this? The GOP is a statist organization that wants as much government power as possible. I am against government power. That is why I supported Ron Paul. I did not support Ron Paul because he was in the GOP, I supported him in spite of it.

I am trying to get my country BACK. It has been stolen and I have no desire to let the thieves have it without a fight. I am 64 years old and I will fight until the day I die.

The GOP has stolen our country. The Dems have stolen our country. All statists steal it every single day. The GOP are statist. The Dems are statist.

Ron Paul is fighting against statism.

+ MDCCLXXVI

I can't put it any better than Mr. Thunderbolt, so I'll just say, "HERE, HERE!"

[nbhadja]

This is a movement to take back the country, not the GOP.

But I agree taking over the GOP is the best way, until it proves utterly useless due to extreme GOP resistance it should be our focus.

It seems like the GOP would rather kill itself then let us win.

[Thunderbolt]

This is a movement to take back the country, not the GOP.

But I agree taking over the GOP is the best way, until it proves utterly useless due to extreme GOP resistance it should be our focus.

It seems like the GOP would rather kill itself then let us win.

The GOP stopped Ron Paul from speaking earlier this year. How much more extreme can you get? Did you forget they refused to have him on their websites as an actual candidate at one point? Have you watched Fox news lately? If you think the GOP is going to let you punks march in and take it over and change every one of their official positions on the issues, then you are dreaming. Go read the National Republican website.

[jonahtrainer]

Are you going to renounce your citizenship as well?

Have you read about Galt's Gulch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged)?

I hope everyone here has their 'last plane account' in order.

The GOP (and all parties) like countries (USA or Iraq) are merely brands like Coke or Pepsi. Each has to weigh the benefits with the costs. When the sweet nectar of freedom is drained from the can it is to be crushed, melted and reshaped. I'm not sure being around the US, or even a US citizen, while it goes through the crushing and melting process, will be very pleasant. The moochers and looters are already isolating themselves from the world (I know several Swiss and Austrian bankers who no longer take US citizens as clients) and as a result of their predatory practice the few productive in the US are leaving in droves.

[r3volution]

you need to realize alot of people here registered republican just to vote Ron Paul . most of them would have gone back to there party either way .

[LibertyEagle]

I tell you one thing. Those that leave the party, were never really apart of the movement to begin with.

I personally don't think that is fair, literatim. Ron Paul's principles are more than just about a political party. Americans from across the political spectrum joined together in this movement, because they wanted our Constitution reinstated.

The Republican party does not have a lock on that. Nor, do they have a lock on promoting liberty. Far from it. In fact, the party who once embodied the libertarian-conservative principles of Barry Goldwater, now differs very little from the Democratic party.

[LibertyEagle]

The GOP stopped Ron Paul from speaking earlier this year. How much more extreme can you get? Did you forget they refused to have him on their websites as an actual candidate at one point? Have you watched Fox news lately? If you think the GOP is going to let you punks march in and take it over and change every one of their official positions on the issues, then you are dreaming. Go read the National Republican website.

I think he's talking about us taking over the GOP. Once upon a time, there used to be a quite powerful wing of the Republican party, full of libertarian-conservatives. Many, called themselves, Goldwater-Republicans.

[eccitante]

I will leave the party, but not until Ron's fight in 2008 is over.... I will stand with him to the end of this mission.... It is not at all likely he would endorse McCain, so why stay with the republican party.... unless we can wrest control from the neocons, we should let the party die its slow death imo.... But I will wait and see what Ron does, and what, if anything, he recommends. I must say though, like the posts above, if it looks like true conservatives can regain control I would certain want to play a role in that, but I really don't think that is likely, so many in the party are pro war....

[BigRedBrent]

Coming from a Libertarian here (errm, now i'm a republican...) I suggest we wait till the GOP convention. If Ron Paul gets the nod, lets consider staying Republican, otherwise - jump back to whatever pond you came from.

yeah?

.jeremy

Agreed!

[Russellk30]

I tell you one thing. Those that leave the party, were never really apart of the movement to begin with.

Well...If you are so bent on using unreasonable logic, you might as well follow through and apply you absolutism to Ron Paul as well. He gave up on the republican party in the past, so he must not be part of the movement.

If you plan on limiting the participation in this movement to only those that whole-heartedly support the Republican Party, you better plan on losing over half of the supporters currently involved.

Are you trying to push people away?

[Russellk30]

I think he's talking about us taking over the GOP. Once upon a time, there used to be a quite powerful wing of the Republican party, full of libertarian-conservatives. Many, called themselves, Goldwater-Republicans.

What exactly did these Goldwater conservatives accomplish with all of their supposed power?

[theseus51]

I tell you one thing. Those that leave the party, were never really apart of the movement to begin with.

I'm not going to do anything with the Republican party after this. I went door to door for Ron Paul, caucused for him, donated money and yeah. Giving up one's citizenship is a lot different than un-joining a voluntary association. I guess I could be principled and leave the US, but all my friends and family and job and things are in the US. I guess I'm not THAT principled.

Leaving the Republican Party is the same as leaving any other organization you feel has gotten too corrupt, and too far away from the original goal of the organization. By your logic, nobody should ever leave any organization, and should stay with every organization they join, to "fix" it.

You can call me whatever names you want, but I'm done with this big government, warmonger, fascist Party.

[MN Patriot]

Are you going to renounce your citizenship as well?

Partisans like you are why this country is in such bad shape. Obviously your allegience is to the Republican Party first, and principles such as freedom are somewhere behind that.

I hope Ron runs as a Libertarian, every congressional district has a Libertarian running, and the Republican Party is destroyed.

Then Americans will have two real choices, not just one like they do now.

[constituent]

I tell you one thing. Those that leave the party, were never really apart of the movement to begin with.

lol.

wouldn't it be better to take over the GOP and squash the opposition...


completely reframe all debate/discussion?