Are we pissing in the wind?

[Alabama Supporter]

I am beginning to question the sanity of some of you folks. McCain has 700+ delegates. We royally sucked on Super Tuesday. The MSM will not acknowledge or even cover RP.

What is giving you people hope that he can actually win this thing?

[coyote_sprit]

We hope for a brokered convention but the outcome looks obvious at this point.

[anewvoice]

and on an electric fence, it's quite a rush!

this is not only about this election, this is about recruiting folks to our side, gaining precious voting district data.....

[literatim]

Because we understand how the entire process works?

We also know how to distinguish between what the media says and what is really happening underneath the surface.

[Paulitical Correctness]

Optimism never hurt nobody.

The disappointment might be tenfold in the end, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with being a dreamer.

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

[ronpaulitician]

I think with Romney suspending his campaign, our options have been narrowed down.

We can stay in the GOP fight, hoping to get some rather meaningless victories towards the end, and maybe a speaking engagement at the convention, in the hope of prepping a 2012 RP run.

We can draft Paul to run as an independent or third party candidate, which would still allow us to prep for an eventual 2012 RP run, but which may endanger Paul's seat in Congress.

Other options?

[RonPaulFever]

Agree with the OP. A lot of my fellow meetup folks still have hope and sound extremely delusional. A smart man knows when he has been beaten.....I'm not saying Ron should drop out, but everyone in the world outside of this forum knows that the campaign is done.

Still, we have to carry on in one way or another. Now that my state's primary is over and our campaign office is closing, my focus from now on will be vote fraud.

[Scott Wilson]

Optimism never hurt nobody.

The disappointment might be tenfold in the end, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with being a dreamer.

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

The dreamers referred to in that song were communists. :eek:

[ronpaulfan]

I am beginning to question the sanity of some of you folks. McCain has 700+ delegates. We royally sucked on Super Tuesday. The MSM will not acknowledge or even cover RP.

What is giving you people hope that he can actually win this thing?

Ron Paul supporters are not immune from sheeplitis.

[Broadlighter]

Even if Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination, the more damage we do to the GOP, the more we damage their ability to damage the country even more.

[DirtMcGirt]

I want to see how many votes we get now that RP is the only statesman and logical person left...

[ronpaulyourmom]

Get on board for the next phase... indy run. Rasmussen poll end of jan says we poll 11% if the nominees are Obama and McCain. Why does everybody talk about Independent run like it's impossible? We'd be in a better position than we were for the GOP nomination from day one.

www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com

[ronpaulitician]

The disappointment might be tenfold in the end, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with being a dreamer.
My pessimism saved me from being crushed by Brady's poor play (read: mechanics were off due to injury) in the Superbowl :)

[ronpaulitician]

Get on board for the next phase... indy run.

www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com
I'm in. Pledged $1,000.

[Paulitical Correctness]

My pessimism saved me from being crushed by Brady's poor play (read: mechanics were off due to injury) in the Superbowl :)

I wanted the Giants to win. :)

[Dr.3D]

"Are we pissing in the wind?"
No the main stream media is pissing on everybody's legs and telling them it's raining.

[ronpaulfan]

Are we pissing in the wind?

Don't knock the urine shower. After all, Ghandi drank his own pee.

[literatim]

McCain does not have 700 delegates. He has 700 estimated delegates assuming he can survive in all those states when it comes to state delegates electing national delegates.

There are many battles on the legal side that need to be finished. McCain will be losing Louisiana's 41 delegates that they 'estimate he has'. McCain may also be losing New York's and New Jersey's delegates due to extensive election fraud.

[Zydeco]

I am beginning to question the sanity of some of you folks. McCain has 700+ delegates. We royally sucked on Super Tuesday. The MSM will not acknowledge or even cover RP.

What is giving you people hope that he can actually win this thing?

2008 is going to be an unprecedented year in this country's history. Wires are crossing. No one knows how it's going to play out, but it might not be through normal channels.

[LibertyEagle]

Geez people... I'm sure glad George and the boys didn't give up this easily, or we'd still be owned by the crown.

[Young_Apprentice]

If there's a chance, even a small one, for him to win, shouldn't we keep going? The conventions not till May; still a long time for things to happen.

[TheNewYorkTony]

Knowing WW III is right around the corner is driving me. Ya think that 7 different internet cables were cut by mistake?? Kinda funny how Irans communications are haulted after the announcement that they are no longer accepting the US dollar. Other arab nations have threatened to do the same and most likely will. If that happens ,we will be paying over $5 per gallon before spring and our dollar will be worthless. War is a comin and John mcCain must be stopped

[No1ButPaul08]

McCain does not have 700 delegates. He has 700 estimated delegates assuming he can survive in all those states when it comes to state delegates electing national delegates.

There are many battles on the legal side that need to be finished. McCain will be losing Louisiana's 41 delegates that they 'estimate he has'. McCain may also be losing New York's and New Jersey's delegates due to extensive election fraud.

Bullshit, he has around 720 delegates. To say otherwise is blindly pumping up faith. Most of McCain's delegates are in states where he picked them, and they won't leave until he releases them. He might lose 50 delegates, that still gives him 400 more than anyone else

[Shellshock1918]

I am beginning to question the sanity of some of you folks. McCain has 700+ delegates. We royally sucked on Super Tuesday. The MSM will not acknowledge or even cover RP.

What is giving you people hope that he can actually win this thing?

The same thing that kept Washington going after being defeated by the British again and again and again.

[jkaufmann]

I will support Ron Paul all the way. I'm writing him in, and donating money to several of the Ron Paul Republicans running for Congress and Senate. I'm in it for the long haul.


One thing I am curious about though; If all Huck, Paul and Romney delegates ban together, and remaining primary states left to vote unite on Huckabee, would that smite McCain? I already voted for Paul in GA. So I couldn't change my vote to HucK in the primary if I wanted to.. But is it possible to kick McCain out of the nominee status?

[mahopaul]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

[LibertyEagle]

"Are we pissing in the wind?"


Ask, and you shall receive.... ;) For your listening pleasure....

http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/mediaplayer.asp?ean=008811256326&z=y&track=13&disc=1

edited - Lest you forget, young lady:


Please show better leadership on these boards :P


lol...

[Alabama Supporter]

You guys are nuts, but I love your commitment to RP.

[RickyJ]

We can stay in the GOP fight, hoping to get some rather meaningless victories towards the end, and maybe a speaking engagement at the convention, in the hope of prepping a 2012 RP run.

This might not be a bad option. But if Hillary starts universal health care coverage we may never get a person like Ron Paul elected short of a real revolution. I really like the idea of Ron Paul coming back in 2012. He would be 76, but he is in great shape and will get many more supporters by then since the country will be so much worse off in 4 years. Imagine if we had 3 whole years to get ready for a campaign. We would be much better organized and have enough donations before it starts to not have to worry about raising any more.

[Roxi]

mccain does not have 700 delegates.... the numbers being reported are "projected delegates"

they claimed he got 40 something out of missouri.... however missouri delegates are not decided til march 15

[Rhys]

Mostly we're learning how to do this shit. I don't know about you guys, but I never tried to get someone elected before this. Next time, I'll actually know what to do months ahead of time... as will you all. The further we take this, the more we learn. It's not about Ron Paul being president, it's about how he taught us how to get our country back. In the beginning I didn't think he'd have half the chance he has now, so I don't see why I would be disappointed at our 'failure' to achieve a miracle. We've done so much more than what is obvious. It's like my father always taught me, you can't gauge a president's success until 20 years after he's left office.... same here.

[MsDoodahs]

Ask, and you shall receive.... ;) For your listening pleasure....

http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/mediaplayer.asp?ean=008811256326&z=y&track=13&disc=1

"pissin' in the wind....it's blowing all over my friends..."

OMG, that is the funniest thing I've heard in a while!

edited to add note to self:


Please show better leadership on these boards :P



[Moderator: Guess you're outta luck, little buddy.] ;)

[seapilot]

Agree there is time to pick battles and wait to fight another day. The thing is this is more than winning now but to acknowledge our own existence in this corrupt society that we all now realize that we live in. When they dont acknowledge RP they really are saying to us that believe in his ideas that we dont exist either. To give up is to say that we really dont exist and it wont matter what we do.

Never could have thought that we would end up being the last 3 out of 11 with almost total media black out or ridicule. We made it this far because of all of us, not from pimping by the media, rich billionaires help, but by the labor, persistance, tenacity and out of the box creativity of individual Americans that made this country great.

Every day we campaign for Ron Paul is another day we spread the message of liberty and freedom. We wake up new people that we convince to learn about Ron Paul , as it causes them to understand what this whole country is all about. The constitution may be on life support but the dream is alive and well in every supporter here.

Every person you get to vote for RP is the proverbial middle finger to the establishment and the media. This is a freedom movement and RP happens to be the vehicle for the moment. Remember the minority is always right the majority is always wrong.

[ronpaulitician]

I wanted the Giants to win. :)
I wasn't unhappy to see them win. I like the way they played this year, and liked the way their rookies performed. And happy to see Strahan get his ring.

[pcosmar]

HOPE
I had little before Ron Paul.
The other options are all worse.
Amazing things have happened, and can yet happen.

[JonathanR]

When (not if) the GOP loses this election and we get a socialist nightmare in office, they will have to take a look at why they lost and reevaluate their platform. Although we may be only polling around 5% on average, that is a BIG chunk of votes that the GOP would desperately love to have and they cannot ignore (especially if they lose by anywhere near that margin).

[ronpaulitician]

The conventions not till May; still a long time for things to happen.
I thought the convention was in September...

[LibertyEagle]

Ask, and you shall receive.... ;) For your listening pleasure....

http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/mediaplayer.asp?ean=008811256326&z=y&track=13&disc=1


:D

[ronpaulitician]

Imagine if we had 3 whole years to get ready for a campaign. We would be much better organized and have enough donations before it starts to not have to worry about raising any more.
Not 3 years to get ready, but 3 years to actively campaign.

I can already see the "Ron Paul told you so" banners over freeway overpasses in 2009.

[LiveToWin]

If you know what will happen should Ron Paul not get elected, you would never give up the fight.

I will Never give up the Fight.

[Xyrus2]

When (not if) the GOP loses this election and we get a socialist nightmare in office, they will have to take a look at why they lost and reevaluate their platform. Although we may be only polling around 5% on average, that is a BIG chunk of votes that the GOP would desperately love to have and they cannot ignore (especially if they lose by anywhere near that margin).

Have you seen McCain's platform? It will be socialist no matter who wins.

~X~

[tomveil]

Not 3 years to get ready, but 3 years to actively campaign.

I can already see the "Ron Paul told you so" banners over freeway overpasses in 2009.

Yup. I'm not taking my stickers off the car ;)

BTW - Would buy "Ron Paul told you so" stickers ;)

[ronpaulitician]

Have you seen McCain's platform? It will be socialist no matter who wins.

~X~
We've had a socialist platform for decades now.

True capitalism = near 0% taxation
Socialism = 50% taxation
True communism = near 100% taxation

I think the tax burden in the US is between 45 and 55 percent or something like that. That's only mildly better than the socialism I left behind when I left my country of birth, Holland, where I believe the tax burden to be between 55 and 65 percent.

[Revolution9]

The dreamers referred to in that song were communists. :eek:

And the communist who wrote that took down the military industrioal complex over Viet Nam with a guitar and some pyjamas. Fuck off with yer brainwashing. If GW Bush put the hit out on Lennon you can bet it was not because he was a commie..Jerkoff.

Randy

[Ironyinc]

We've had a socialist platform for decades now.

True capitalism = near 0% taxation
Socialism = 50% taxation
True communism = near 100% taxation

I think the tax burden in the US is between 45 and 55 percent or something like that. That's only mildly better than the socialism I left behind when I left my country of birth, Holland, where I believe the tax burden to be between 55 and 65 percent.

Actually, true ideological communism is zero taxation. It's just that every time that it has been implemented in practice by a modern state it has been done by totalitarianism which wants to control everything and therefore the governments do take all the citizen's money.

There is a big difference between communism in practice and communism in theory, and to say true communism is full taxation is just wrong.

[ronpaulitician]

Yup. I'm not taking my stickers off the car ;)
Didn't Ross Perot have a much easier time on his second run than he did on his first?

Even if people disagree with Ron, at least they know his name now. It's been less than a year. Of course we'll be disappointed if he's not president in '09, and this country will continue to go in the wrong direction (probably a bit faster, at that), but at least we'll have something to look forward to and a name to bring up when we hear people complain about how bad it is.

[LibertyEagle]

And the communist who wrote that took down the military industrioal complex over Viet Nam with a guitar and some pyjamas. Fuck off with yer brainwashing. If GW Bush put the hit out on Lennon you can bet it was not because he was a commie..Jerkoff.

Randy

Uh... I didn't hear any talk about any Dreamers in "Pissin' in the Wind". Were you talkin' about a different stanza, than I heard? ;)
http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/mediaplayer.asp?ean=008811256326&z=y&track=13&disc=1

[Philmanoman]

Now that Romney has dropped...as far as I know...everyone at my work is voting for Ron Paul,including the 2 owners.Its a small business and theres about 11 of us and its likely that they will recruit some new RP supporters as well.

[ronpaulitician]

Actually, true ideological communism is zero taxation.
The elimination of private property constitutes 100% taxation in my book.

[Jesubub]

I love this movie:
http://www.trashzombies.net/images/covers/troll3.jpg

[MsDoodahs]

Actually, true ideological communism is zero taxation. It's just that every time that it has been implemented in practice by a modern state it has been done by totalitarianism which wants to control everything and therefore the governments do take all the citizen's money.

There is a big difference between communism in practice and communism in theory, and to say true communism is full taxation is just wrong.

True communism is the complete absense of all property rights, meaning they don't have tax you because they frikken own you, and everything you produce.

Advocating something like that here is ... not smart.

[freelance]

2008 is going to be an unprecedented year in this country's history. Wires are crossing. No one knows how it's going to play out, but it might not be through normal channels.

We don't have a clue what "events" may take place between now and the convention and/or November. The economy could totally collapse by then. Who knows? Stranger things have happened. There are any number of future events that could wake up the majority and change the entire course of our country. We all sit around talking like the evil forces are the only players. We don't know what kind of good forces are out there, because you can bet that they're silent. I wonder if we wouldn't be a quicker course to hell in a handbasket if some of those forces weren't working behind the scenes. WE JUST DON'T KNOW! And, it's pretty hard to predict the future when we don't have all the facts.

You signed up for the ride of your life. If you're uncomfortable, then buckle up your seat belt.

[nullvalu]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

LMAO

We gotta take these bastards! Now we could do it with conventional weapons, that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!

[LEK]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Japan...right?

[pacelli]

The media is doing everything in its power to undermine the RP grassroots and the Hucks grassroots. Do not be fooled.

[The New Revere]

Someone still has to show me proof of these 700 mccain delegates. Is the MSM suddenly psychic?

[Crickett]

Agree with the OP. A lot of my fellow meetup folks still have hope and sound extremely delusional. A smart man knows when he has been beaten.....I'm not saying Ron should drop out, but everyone in the world outside of this forum knows that the campaign is done.

Still, we have to carry on in one way or another. Now that my state's primary is over and our campaign office is closing, my focus from now on will be vote fraud.

What you do not understand yet, is that WE are just getting started...

[Crickett]

Good for you, because RP made no mention of a 3rd party run on the conference call tonight.

[Melissa]

Agree there is time to pick battles and wait to fight another day. The thing is this is more than winning now but to acknowledge our own existence in this corrupt society that we all now realize that we live in. When they dont acknowledge RP they really are saying to us that believe in his ideas that we dont exist either. To give up is to say that we really dont exist and it wont matter what we do.

Never could have thought that we would end up being the last 3 out of 11 with almost total media black out or ridicule. We made it this far because of all of us, not from pimping by the media, rich billionaires help, but by the labor, persistance, tenacity and out of the box creativity of individual Americans that made this country great.

Every day we campaign for Ron Paul is another day we spread the message of liberty and freedom. We wake up new people that we convince to learn about Ron Paul , as it causes them to understand what this whole country is all about. The constitution may be on life support but the dream is alive and well in every supporter here.

Every person you get to vote for RP is the proverbial middle finger to the establishment and the media. This is a freedom movement and RP happens to be the vehicle for the moment. Remember the minority is always right the majority is always wrong.





I just copied and pasted this to everyone in my email contacts ---yes this is what we are fighting for please send this to everyone---great post to the author

[familydog]

Assuming we can get a brokered convention, what makes peeople think all these delegates for John McCain actually like him and will stick with him?

[Gimme Some Truth]

I think with Romney suspending his campaign, our options have been narrowed down.

We can stay in the GOP fight, hoping to get some rather meaningless victories towards the end, and maybe a speaking engagement at the convention, in the hope of prepping a 2012 RP run.

We can draft Paul to run as an independent or third party candidate, which would still allow us to prep for an eventual 2012 RP run, but which may endanger Paul's seat in Congress.

Other options?

Ron will be 76/77 in 2012 , im not sure if he'd feel like goin thro all this again.

Im still hopeful of a brokered convention.

I am also hopeful of an independent run against Hillary and McCain. With the help of alot of the Obama folks we could very well get the 1st independent elected to the White House :) .

I am still hopeful of Ron Paul's message spreading thro a new founding fathers-esque generation. Namely ... us!

.

[WilliamC]

I am beginning to question the sanity of some of you folks. McCain has 700+ delegates. We royally sucked on Super Tuesday. The MSM will not acknowledge or even cover RP.

What is giving you people hope that he can actually win this thing?

Define win.

Then watch this (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958).

Repeat.

[No1ButPaul08]

Assuming we can get a brokered convention, what makes peeople think all these delegates for John McCain actually like him and will stick with him?

Because in most of the states he won, he picked his slate

[familydog]

Because in most of the states he won, he picked his slate

How can you tell? I'm intrigued.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

The election is 9 months from now. How much support did RP have 9 months ago? If RP doesn't get the Republican nomination, so be it. It has been a great springboard to the next phase. The rEVOLution isn't Dependant on the Republican Party. RP has said several times now that he is in it as long as we support him and raise money for him. We can wake enough people up over the next 9 months to take it.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

Ron will be 76/77 in 2012 , im not sure if he'd feel like goin thro all this again.

Im still hopeful of a brokered convention.

I am also hopeful of an independent run against Hillary and McCain. With the help of alot of the Obama folks we could very well get the 1st independent elected to the White House :) .

I am still hopeful of Ron Paul's message spreading thro a new founding fathers-esque generation. Namely ... us!

.

By 2012 the Constitution will pretty much be history if we don't change course. It's now or never.

[Hook]

If any girls are, I wanna watch. :D

[homah]

I don't believe he is going to win the nomination at this point, but who else am I supposed to support? There is no other candidate that is acceptable.

[westmich4paul]

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Hell no and it aint over now! Ya know what the negative people may be right, maybe we aint got a chance in hell, but I know one thing if, just if, we got one tiny little microcosmic chance, or even if we do not have a pot left to piss in, I want Ron staying in swinging the message of freedom all the way. So I lose some flippen money. Hell I've lost more at casinos in my life and I wasn't having half as much fun. Let every last person out there hear you Ron all the way till Nov if we can keep it going. It is the least we can do for not listening for the past 30.

[PathIveMade]

Here's a note.... I'm not done. Ohio hasn't voted yet, and it's likely we'll be down to 2 by then. Ron Paul vs. McCain. We have 88 delegates up for grabs. We will win Ohio for RP, and then take whatever steps are necessary when/if those steps reveal themselves. In the mean time... read below.



Now that Romney is out of the race:

1) Far fewer voters will show up to the primaries and caucuses

2) Republicans that don't support McCain (and there are a lot of them) only have two candidates to cast a protest vote for

3) When Romney fully drops out (it's only "suspended" right now) his delegates are unbound.

We stay the course.

We have secured a bare minimum of 24, and we're projecting 42 delegates from Super Tuesday. Plus delegates from Louisiana, which we may win outright. We're also still facing the likely possibility of a brokered national convention, which means that all of the delegates will ultimately vote at the national convention not for whom they were bound by their primary or caucus, but for whomever they choose. Which means:

WE CAN STILL WIN THE NOMINATION. And moreover, we will force the Republican Party to choose between McCain or Paul. And they will either choose Paul or go the way of the Whigs.

Please remain committed and confident. We must not only maintain our commitment, but we must also help others who have lost faith in the campaign. The media is (as usual) misinforming the public, this time by telling them that the primary is the only thing that counts. WRONG. If you become a delegate, if you go to your county convention, if you help elect Ron Paul delegates to your state convention, we are still in the race.

This is what we must do.

[Ironyinc]

True communism is the complete absense of all property rights, meaning they don't have tax you because they frikken own you, and everything you produce.

Advocating something like that here is ... not smart.

I don't mean to sound as if I am advocating it, I just wish to remove quite a bit of the ignorance about what communism actually is versus how it's always been implemented through statism. While I can see how a 100% communistic society might be nice, I believe that it grossly overestimates the average human's benevolence.

Though you are right about there being a lack of property rights, I do not know who "they" are in the term "they frikken own you." If you mean the government, then you are misguided as in a true communism there isn't a need for a government as people use what land they need to produce what goods they want. They get from their neighbors what goods they need to survive and give to others what they have extra. There are no property rights because the idea is, if you aren't using the land you don't deserve to have it over someone else who could use the land and contribute to society.

So I hope you can see that it isn't at all what you describe. And once again, I am completely against statism and mostly against communist theory, but not entirely (it just makes out people to be a bit too good for my tastes).

[Anti Federalist]

Yes...yes we are.

[TheTexan]

In hindsight the reason for our loss is clear.

We didn't have enough blimps. Needed at least 5-6 for this to work

[showpan]

Yes...yes we are.

lol...you resurrected a post from 2008...wtg

Ok, with that being said, serious question here. Why can't more Libertarian candidates just bite the friggin bullet and run as Republican????
I know that is against our religion in so many ways...lol... but I now feel it is the only way to actually gain a voice and slowly eliminate the neocon Rhinos. They do it!!!! Almost all of the Republicans are running on a fraudulent ticket. They don't deserve to be in the conservative party let alone ANY party other than the neocons for that matter. When are Libertarians going to get with the times and learn to play the game under rules that have changed dramatically. Trump done more for the conservative voice and OUR cause than Libertarians have done in years.

The original OP asked "Are we pissing in the wind"
the answer to that is yes.....and I'm being optimistic....lol

[Anti Federalist]

In hindsight the reason for our loss is clear.

We didn't have enough blimps. Needed at least 5-6 for this to work


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDBKzpiaVfM

[acptulsa]

lol...you resurrected a post from 2008...wtg

Ok, with that being said, serious question here. Why can't more Libertarian candidates just bite the friggin bullet and run as Republican????

Happens all the time. Republican primary voters never hear of them, because they can't afford to run slick ads during baseball games.

[showpan]

Happens all the time. Republican primary voters never hear of them, because they can't afford to run slick ads during baseball games.

Example: Here in Indiana, Donald Rainwater ran for Governor and lost terribly because Indiana is a GOP states and most people here vote straight party line even though they know our Holcomb is a Rhino. If he had ended up on the ballot as GOP he would have took it without any blimps....lol....if he had ran as GOP during the primary, he would have won the ballot because everyone here is fed up with Rhino's but not enough to hand it to Democrats. Holcomb was the only GOP choice in the primary.

[acptulsa]

Example: Here in Indiana, Donald Rainwater ran for Governor and lost terribly because Indiana is a GOP states and most people here vote straight party line even though they know our Holcomb is a Rhino. If he had ended up on the ballot as GOP he would have took it without any blimps....lol....if he had ran as GOP during the primary, he would have won the ballot because everyone here is fed up with Rhino's but not enough to hand it to Democrats. Holcomb was the only GOP choice in the primary.

Everybody here is sick of RINOs but not enough to hand it to Democrats, too. But Nathan Dahm ran for Senate, had yard signs all over, campaigned like a fiend, was welcomed into homes all over by people who begged their friends and neighbors to come listen, and didn't even make the runoff because the cog-in-the-machine candidates had advertising budgets and honest men don't.

No, Libertarian candidates don't win either. But at least they get on the general election ballot where disaffected Democrats (the fastest-growing demographic by far) and independent voters can use them as a protest vote. You know. Voters who actually pay attention.

[showpan]

No, Libertarian candidates don't win either. But at least they get on the general election ballot where disaffected Democrats (the fastest-growing demographic by far) and independent voters can use them as a protest vote. You know. Voters who actually pay attention.

Your "protest" vote is what helps place the Democrats. You might as well vote for them...lol

again, I say this with the hopes that somebody reading this knows that the only way the Libertarian party will ever be significant is if we invade the Republican party and take it over like the neocons have done. You can't win if you don't play.

[PAF]

Your "protest" vote is what helps place the Democrats. You might as well vote for them...lol

again, I say this with the hopes that somebody reading this knows that the only way the Libertarian party will ever be significant is if we invade the Republican party and take it over like the neocons have done. You can't win if you don't play.

I'm no lover of libtards, but, win what? Getting off the gold standard (R)? No New Taxes (R)? TSA (R)? Patriot Act (R)? Not ending the FedDeptEd (R)? 6 year extension of 702 (R)? Nationalized Healthcare and OWS (R)? Corporate Welfare (R)? The biggest increase in debt this country ever had (R)?

There aren't enough libertarians who could even make a dent in the machine. Best work local and focus on that.

[PAF]

..

[showpan]

I'm no lover of libtards, but, win what? Getting off the gold standard (R)? No New Taxes (R)? TSA (R)? Patriot Act (R)? Not ending the FedDeptEd (R)? 6 year extension of 702 (R)? Nationalized Healthcare and OWS (R)? Corporate Welfare (R)? The biggest increase in debt this country ever had (R)?

There aren't enough libertarians who could even make a dent in the machine. Best work local and focus on that.

So you don't think that if we had more voices like Rand that we wouldn't make any gains....lol....that's ridiculous, how do you think the neocons started!!!!!

[PAF]

So you don't think that if we had more voices like Rand that we wouldn't make any gains....lol....that's ridiculous, how do you think the neocons started!!!!!

By my nature I am an individualist. Government by it's definition is evil. So don't count me in. Rand and Massie are solid, but they are the rare exception. If you think lobbyists, money and power are going to let Massie's fill the house, or anywhere close to have an effect, I've got news for you. Government is expert at giving little bones here and there to keep a little hope up and their system alive. It ultimately comes down to The People, of which for the most part want nothing to do with liberty or fiscal responsibility. They want/need their MIC contracts, pharmaceutical jobs, WELFARE, and won't allow themselves to be downsized or eliminated.

You know why they keep voting Mike Kelly (R-CD3), even though he has the record of a democrat? Because he makes sure his constituents are taken care of - at the expense of liberty and any sense of fiscal responsibility. I speak to them all the time at committee, breakfasts, political events, they would never in a thousand years vote for somebody like Massie.

Don't let me stop you. If you can make a positive change, all the power to you. I have tried repeatedly over more than a decade and come up zilch. On the Records get thrown into the trash.

[showpan]

You know why they keep voting Mike Kelly (R-CD3).

He's 74 and his clock is ticking away....I say that but then remind myself of Kissinger who is 99 and still an NWO neocon leader...lol...or Biden who gets lost leaving the podium....lol
I will always be an optimist. We must continue to fight for small gains, if one strategy isn't working, then on to the next!!!!

[BarryDonegan]

Things have come so far in our direction since those days. All the Republicans know we were right. They're now victims of the Patriot act and anti terror laws

[Dr.3D]

Things have come so far in our direction since those days. All the Republicans know we were right. They're now victims of the Patriot act and anti terror laws
And people are waking up to the fact the Main Stream Media has been lying to us the whole time.

[osan]

I'm no lover of libtards, but, win what? Getting off the gold standard (R)? No New Taxes (R)? TSA (R)? Patriot Act (R)? Not ending the FedDeptEd (R)? 6 year extension of 702 (R)? Nationalized Healthcare and OWS (R)? Corporate Welfare (R)? The biggest increase in debt this country ever had (R)?

Republicrat. Demopublican.

Two sides.

Same rotten coin.