Ron Paul Should Not Run As 3rd Party!! Here Is Why! Video!!! must watch!

[mysticgeek]

Here is a video from Cafferty! This is a great video on why 3rd party never wins. I must admit that it is sad as hell! But ... RP knows exactly why we need to be in the Republican party!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gYF_K5p38E

The Fight Has Just Begun!!!!!!! :cool:

[mysticgeek]

bump for the fact that this is a must watch YO!

[KevinR]

good vid :o

[Lord Xar]

I have a question for you, IF PEROT got 20% as a third party - what does that tell you?

IT IS POSSIBLE, not probable, BUT POSSIBLE.

This great nation was not founded on probable, but a possibility.

Also, this is the NEWS giving us this info. The VERY MSM that censors,hides, manipulates etc.....

So, who will you trust? The VERY MSM or your heart?

[colecrowe]

Yep, that's it...I'll give up because of that video! Ron Paul iNDEPENDENT for President 2008! See my sig and pledge!

Ron Paul said that he will continue to run as long as he continues to get support: canvassing and financing. He's not stupid. He will be able to see when continuing to run Republican will be a futile waste. Then if he has the support he mentioned, he will have to keep going. Key points:

1. A brokered convention is not going to happen.

2. Canvassing is done for in half the states as of now, unless he goes iNDY. If he goes iNDY, on the other hand, we would have 8 months to canvass and get 200,000 plus precinct captains.

3. ...:

my dad said he'd donate another 500 to Paul (IF he announces 3rd party) (he donated 200 on Dec. 16th--but that was when it seemed like he REALLY could maybe, possibly win the Nom. I would donate 500 the day he declares (even though it will hurt financially), whereas I can't afford to give anymore (I gave just over a 1,100 in Q4 to the cause--so shut up) for his Republican run; and gramps would probably wager another 1776.00

The 2nd and 3rd tier, broader-base of supporters aren't (many or most of them) going to donate MORE--if they already have once--because TO THEM it is obvious or at least nearly certain that he's not going to get the Nom from the Republican party (I'm not saying I believe that--but they DO). However, they would be very willing and enthusiastic about supporting him in an iNDEPENDENT run.

[Joe3113]

I have a question for you, IF PEROT got 20% as a third party - what does that tell you?

IT IS POSSIBLE, not probable, BUT POSSIBLE.

This great nation was not founded on probable, but a possibility.

Also, this is the NEWS giving us this info. The VERY MSM that censors,hides, manipulates etc.....

So, who will you trust? The VERY MSM or your heart?

+1

We need to go until November and beyond.

This is not about what is practically possible, it's about people's god-given right to life and liberty.

[colecrowe]

The people who never provide evidence are the "go down with the GOP ship" folks. Unless your evidence is the horrible returns in half the states, the lack of growth of Paul's numbers, results, and fundraising over the last month within the GOP (just about everybody that votes for him has to register Republican). and some faith in a now-impossible dream of a brokered convention.

Check out this poll: Already Republican or only did so for Ron Paul? : http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1197657


Can't these rabid pro-indy people privide some sort of evidence to back up these claims? Because your family have seen the light, means it will be the same all across the America?

[hueylong]

Perot was polling in the 30's when he went crazy and dropped out. He got back in 60 days later -- and STILL got 19%.

Think about it.

[colecrowe]

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/poll-an-independent-president/

July 20, 2007, 5:08 pm Poll: An Independent President (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/poll-an-independent-president/)

By Megan Thee (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/author/mthee/)

In a New York Times/CBS News Poll taken last week, half of Americans said a president who is neither a Republican nor a Democrat could govern effectively.
And with 6 in 10 Republican primary voters and almost 4 in 10 Democratic primary voters saying they are not satisfied with their party’s current slate of candidates for the presidential nomination, the political environment could be ripe for an independent candidate to break into the race.
[THAT'S HALF]
Michael Bloomberg, a newly minted independent who says he’s not intent on making a run for the White House even though he just switched affiliations, is largely unknown by most Americans. Six in 10 registered voters said they haven’t heard enough about him yet to have an opinion; 9 percent view him favorably; 9 percent unfavorably; and 18 percent said they are undecided.
The current poll suggests that Americans are significantly more optimistic about the chances of a third-party president meeting with success, than they were in 1995 before the Bill Clinton-Bob Dole-Ross Perot contest. In the summer of 1995, just 30 percent of Americans said an independent president could govern effectively and 61 percent said such a president would encounter serious problems dealing with Congress.
Forty-four percent of those polled recently said such a president would have trouble dealing with Congress.

Independents and Republicans are significantly more supportive of a third-party president than are Democrats. Similarly, younger Americans are more open to the idea of an independent president — as respondent age increases, the incidence of those saying an independent could govern effectively decreases.

[colecrowe]

Yeah--we couldn't get on the ballots WITH SEVEN MONTHS TO DO SO?! Whatever. What a bunch of crap. How the F did Perot do it? We have way more grassroots than he did. And DON'T SAY, "With his billions." He spent 65 million--look on wikipedia. What cost $65000000 in 1990 would cost $107,402,877.98 in 2007. source: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi


You know what's really "never gonna happen"? The Republican nomination. So for people that want ONE THING and one thing only--Ron Paul to be in the whitehouse--an iNDY run must be discussed. For all you that care more about "changing the GOP", fine--you can continue to argue your point that that would be better than a Ron Paul win in the General.


An independent run is virtually impossible.
The ballot access battle is ridiculously difficult and would never happen
if Ron Paul tried to go independent.

With the sheer numbers of grassroots supporters already keyed in
the feasibility of undercutting the MSM stranglehold in the general election exists.
The organization does not cease to exist - who wants to abandon hope?
Not while we are still organized - that would be nuts.
Let us keep this thing together - no matter what.

The biggest part of making a third-party run is already in place.

The only realistic choice is to go with the Libertarian Party.

I won't vote for anyone but Ron Paul, no matter what happens.

But all this is still premature - let's wait for the results.
It is only a few hours until all the rest of the cards are on the table.

[colecrowe]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287190,00.html




FOX News Poll: Third Party President Good for Country

Thursday, June 28, 2007
By Dana Blanton
http://www.foxnews.com/images/foxnews_story.gif
E-MAIL STORY (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287190,00.html#)
PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION (http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,287190,00.html) NEW YORK — Nearly half of Americans think it would be good for the country if an independent candidate (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:siteSearch%28%27independent%20candidate%27%29 ;) won the 2008 presidential election, according to the latest FOX News Poll. And despite acknowledging the improbability of the candidate winning, a majority says they would consider voting for an independent for president.
Opinion Dynamics Corp. conducted the national telephone poll of 900 registered voters for FOX News from June 26 to June 27. The poll has a 3-point error margin.
More than twice as many voters think it would be good for the country if an independent candidate were to win the White House in 2008 than think it would be bad (45 percent good, 19 percent bad). In addition, there is rare partisan agreement on the issue as 42 percent of Democrats and 44 percent of Republicans think electing an independent candidate would be good for the country, as do 56 percent of self-described independents.
• Click here to view full results of the poll. (pdf) (http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/062807_release_web.pdf)
Furthermore, a 67 percent majority says they would consider casting their ballot for an independent — including more than 6 in 10 Democrats and Republicans.
Even so, most people believe independent candidates have little chance of success: 31 percent of voters think a qualified independent has a reasonable chance of winning a presidential election, while a 63 percent majority thinks it’s unlikely.
(Story continues below)
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FOX News Poll: Third Party President Good for Country (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287190,00.html)
FOX News Poll: Bush Approval Rating Hits New Low (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287195,00.html)
FOX News Poll: Jobs More Important Than Endangered Species (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,282392,00.html)
FOX News Poll: Clinton, Giuliani Seen as Top White House Candidates (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,282354,00.html)
FOX News Poll: Public Says Enforce Existing Immigration Laws (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,282375,00.html)Full-page FNC Poll Archive (http://www.foxnews.com/column_archive/0,2976,86,00.html)
"It appears that many voters believe a vote for a candidate who has little chance of winning still is not a wasted vote," said Opinion Dynamics Vice President Lawrence Shiman. "A substantial percentage of both parties are willing to consider supporting independent candidacies regardless of the candidate’s chances of winning."
Given the amount of attention to New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s party affiliation switch from Republican to independent, and the subsequent speculation about him entering the 2008 race, the poll asked people how they would vote in a 3-way race.
The recent media coverage fails to move the numbers much from earlier in the month. Bloomberg’s 7 percent support is unchanged, and obviously puts him far behind the major party front-runners Democrat Hillary Clinton (39 percent) and Republican Rudy Giuliani (37 percent).
Paris Better Known Than Romney, Thompson
Among the presidential hopefuls, Giuliani is not only one of the best known, but he also continues to be viewed the most positively, receiving a 54 percent favorable rating. Most voters are also familiar with Republican candidate John McCain — 47 percent have a favorable opinion of him and only 5 percent don’t know him.
Republicans Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson are much less well known than the other Republican and Democratic candidates. In fact, more people say they have "never heard of" Thompson, Romney and Bloomberg, than Paris Hilton — only 7 percent of Americans were unable to express an opinion of her.
Today, even though one in five Americans (22 percent) say they have never heard of Romney, that represents a noticeable improvement from earlier this year when 43 percent didn’t know him (Jan. 30-31, 2007). However, as many voters have an unfavorable opinion of Romney (26 percent) as have a favorable opinion (25 percent). His favorable rating is 39 percent among Republicans.
Thompson’s name recognition is also picking up — 32 percent say they have never heard of him today, down from 53 percent in March. His favorable rating is 30 percent overall and 46 percent among Republicans, with 16 percent of all voters holding an unfavorable view.
For Bloomberg, 20 percent have never heard of him, an improvement from 35 percent last month (15-16 May 2007). Bloomberg’s current favorable rating is 23 percent, with 24 percent holding an unfavorable view. Attitudes toward Bloomberg are similar among Democrats (25 percent favorable) and Republicans (22 percent favorable).
The Democratic contenders are well known to voters, as majorities are able to offer an opinion on each of them. About half of Americans have a favorable view of John Edwards (49 percent), Clinton (46 percent) and Barack Obama (46 percent). Al Gore’s favorable rating is 48 percent.
For a political comparison, President Bush’s current favorable rating is 37 percent and virtually all Americans express an opinion.
For a popular culture comparison, 7 percent of Americans say they have a favorable opinion of Paris Hilton (73 percent unfavorable) and 7 percent have never heard of her.
Standings in the Primaries
In the race for the Republican nomination, Giuliani retains the leader spot at 29 percent followed by McCain at 17 percent, Thompson at 15 percent, Romney at 8 percent and Newt Gingrich at 8 percent. Giuliani is up 7 points from earlier this month, though still 10 percentage points down from 39 percent in February.
Among Democrats, Clinton strengthens her front-runner status with the support of 42 percent (up 6 points), followed by Obama at 19 percent (down 4 points), Gore at 14 percent and Edwards at 10 percent.
When Gore is taken out of the mix, Clinton’s standing improves to 47 percent, Obama 21 percent and Edwards 13 percent.
Where People Are Learning About The Candidates
Television clearly is the most popular place to get information about the presidential candidates, but there are certainly many other options these days. The poll finds that 88 percent of voters are getting information about the candidates from television coverage, 69 percent from newspapers and 51 percent radio coverage.
Internet news sites are a source for 38 percent of Americans, which is distinguished from these specific online sources: 11 percent say they use blogs, 7 percent YouTube and 4 percent use MySpace to learn about the candidates.
About twice as many Americans think Conservative radio talk shows (38 percent) have more influence on politics these days than Liberal Internet blogs (17 percent).
Finally, 53 percent of voters today think it is too early for the 2008 presidential candidates to be campaigning — up from 47 percent who thought so four months ago (February 13-14).

[Jeremy]

Well we already "got it going"... but I agree, this is too hard

[Deborah K]

I have a question for you, IF PEROT got 20% as a third party - what does that tell you?

IT IS POSSIBLE, not probable, BUT POSSIBLE.

This great nation was not founded on probable, but a possibility.

Also, this is the NEWS giving us this info. The VERY MSM that censors,hides, manipulates etc.....

So, who will you trust? The VERY MSM or your heart?



Well put. I agree.

[TheNewYorkTony]

Sounds like Ron Paul has the ingredients to make this happen. he can get the money for sure !! Do it Ron Do It !!!

[HollyforRP]

I have a question for you, IF PEROT got 20% as a third party - what does that tell you?

IT IS POSSIBLE, not probable, BUT POSSIBLE.

This great nation was not founded on probable, but a possibility.

Also, this is the NEWS giving us this info. The VERY MSM that censors,hides, manipulates etc.....

So, who will you trust? The VERY MSM or your heart?

exactly.

[Thanehand]

Ingredients to make this happen!?? Put down whatever it is you are smoking.

Q. $100 Million?

A. No. Not even close.

Q. Can get on the ballot in all states as an independent?

A. No. Some states have a rule stating if you've ran in another party already, you can't.

Q. Polling high?

A. No. Not even close.

Q. Media coverage?

A. No. Do I have really have to explain that he'll get less as an independent?

Q. Will be able to get into the debates?

A. NO! THEY BARELY LET HIM IN NOW!


You are delusional if you think Ron stands a chance at a 3rd party run. People need to quit talking about these tangents and FOCUS on the 20+ states that still have primaries coming up.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

It is possible to win as an independent candidate. We have a rare opportunity, since I've seen several polls showing Americans haven't been this angry with both parties since 1992. The GOP has been part of the battle all around. That (R) hangs around Ron Paul's neck like an albatross, and possibly explains why many of the independents flocking to Obama never even saw him: they are simply so disgusted with the party they didn't look at the Republican field.

McCain vs. Hillary is the dismal scenario most conducive to a successful Ron Paul independent bid. And it's very possible this is what's going to come out of the contests, especially if both Romney and Obama are out by spring. For now, let's just keep working hard for Dr. Paul until he makes a decision on what to do, even though independent seems to be the best option at this point.

[IDefendThePlatform]

Ingredients to make this happen!?? Put down whatever it is you are smoking.

Q. $100 Million?

A. No. Not even close.

Q. Can get on the ballot in all states as an independent?

A. No. Some states have a rule stating if you've ran in another party already, you can't.

Q. Polling high?

A. No. Not even close.

Q. Media coverage?

A. No. Do I have really have to explain that he'll get less as an independent?

Q. Will be able to get into the debates?

A. NO! THEY BARELY LET HIM IN NOW!


You are delusional if you think Ron stands a chance at a 3rd party run. People need to quit talking about these tangents and FOCUS on the 20+ states that still have primaries coming up.


1) Money:
$100 million although unlikely, is possible. We raised $20 million in the last 3 months and $5 million in Janurary, so with 8-9 months to work with, and a much larger potential pool of donaters, plus the continued canvassing in all 50 states I think $60 million is certainly within reach.

2) Ballot access:
This has been talked about in other threads, but to sum up what I've seen, RP is a cinch in about 45 states with our grassroots out gathering signatures. A few states have legal issues that we will have to battle, but I think those will pay for themself with the publicity that they provide. It took Perot 7 months to get on all the ballots (February 20th to September) and he stilled polled near 40% before dropping out. I have to think RP, with the internet and grassroots in his corner, would be even better at this than Perot.

3) Poll Numbers:
Rasmussen's latest poll showed RP already polling 7-11% as an independent in a national 3 or 4 person race. This despite name recognition of at best 50% of the population. Give us 9 months to turn on that other 50% and we double our support right there. Also, in a three way race we could win with 34-40% of the votes.

4) Media coverage:
Ok, you've got a point there. However, the biggest advantage to the Indy run is a solid 9 months of grassroots campaigning. I know many of you have been here a long time, but I don't think the grassroots, meetups, etc. really took off until late fall, say October-ish. That means we had only been at this 3 months when the primaries started in early January. 8-9 months with the amount of people we have now would be huge.

5) Debates:
Ive seen 15% mentioned as the threshold for getting into the debates as an Indy. I think this is definitely achievable, because the debates are not until after the conventions in late September and October. Plus, if Bloomberg and/or Nader run they could debate each other much earlier than that.

Now for the disclaimer. That was an admittedly rosy projection and I think our odds of actually winning are pretty long. But I definitely think it is our best shot at this point, certainly better than our odds with a brokered convention, in my opinion.

Of course, whatever RP decides, I support 100%.

[Thanehand]

It is possible to win as an independent candidate. We have a rare opportunity, since I've seen several polls showing Americans haven't been this angry with both parties since 1992.

THE MEDIA WILL NOT LET THE PUBLIC KNOW THAT AN INDEPENDENT CANDIDATE IS RUNNING, ESPECIALLY IF IT IS RON PAUL.

Sorry for yelling, but the media is not about to let Ron Paul try to come in a backdoor to steal their show of white vs. black vs. man vs. woman vs. liberal vs. conservative, particularly when they mostly all want a Democrat in office.

[BigRedBrent]

Forward this to every supporter everywhere as soon as possible:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1201693

[HollyforRP]

He shouldn't run as the label independant. Independants are the ones that have all the problems getting their name on the ballot.

If he takes that road, he should choose Libertarian

[colecrowe]

THE MEDIA WILL NOT LET THE PUBLIC KNOW THAT AN INDEPENDENT CANDIDATE IS RUNNING, ESPECIALLY IF IT IS RON PAUL.

Sorry for yelling, but the media is not about to let Ron Paul try to come in a backdoor to steal their show of white vs. black vs. man vs. woman vs. liberal vs. conservative, particularly when they mostly all want a Democrat in office.

That is why infomercials are essential. On every network, a couple times. Then a 25 million dollar Independence Day money bomb and 200,000 + precinct captains...pledge now RonPaulWhitehouse.com

[morerocklesstalk]

He shouldn't run as the label independant. Independants are the ones that have all the problems getting their name on the ballot.

If he takes that road, he should choose Libertarian

I think people are weighing the pros and cons of running on an established party and feel that almost every party will come with baggage of preformed notions about it.

I worry that the Libertarian label will push potential voters on both the right and left away.

[Akus]

Here is a video from Cafferty! This is a great video on why 3rd party never wins. I must admit that it is sad as hell! But ... RP knows exactly why we need to be in the Republican party!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gYF_K5p38E

The Fight Has Just Begun!!!!!!! :cool:

a-fucking-mazing

People are pissed at Bush and McCain and Hillary and they think they're all crooks. Yet STILL Ron Paul is in single digits. Holy shit we're stupid.

[morerocklesstalk]

That is why infomercials are essential. On every network, a couple times. Then a 25 million dollar Independence Day money bomb and 200,000 + precinct captains...pledge now RonPaulWhitehouse.com

Instead of money bombs for the blimp, why not just have a TV bomb or something like that. We could buy tons of ads that way.

I think with the 2 party system we could just gain recognition by focusing on people who are sick of partisan politics and fed up with people who don't speak to/for them. If McCain and Clinton are the canidates, just show them a list of where they rank on money from lobbyists.

We can make being the "little guy" into a huge advantage. Who can't relate to that?

[spudea]

but what is the benefit of dropping Republican now? Staying Rep gets him into debates, gets him "some" mentions in the news, and also lets him attack the other reps for not being conservatives.

[morerocklesstalk]

but what is the benefit of dropping Republican now? Staying Rep gets him into debates, gets him "some" mentions in the news, and also lets him attack the other reps for not being conservatives.

By all means I want him to stay until the convention is decided. It's free press and publicity.

If he is thinking about running independent, I hope he begins courting the other canidates like Thompson, Romney and Huckabee for potential endorsements.

[Ex Post Facto]

Nice video. I don't think it excludes Ron Paul. I mean there are hurdles, but Ron Paul has the following to make it happen. Imagine him with a wealthy VP, supporting him. He could do very well, and Ron Paul shouldn't think he won't do well.

[lonestarguy]

The vast lion share of Ron Paul supporters fully intend to continute to strive to see that Paul does as well as possible in the remaining state primaries and caucuses (Phase A). It's all a part of the continuation of Paul's name recognition and freedom message. We win, in an important sense, even though the MSM thinks we are losing. How have we won? Because the Paul campaign has awoken untold thousands of voters to the freedom message and amassed a huge volunteer base. But we must continue winning by............

Then, we have to work like hell to get Ron Paul to run yes, 3rd Party on the Libertarian or Constitution Party ticket (Phase B). It would be too cost prohibitive to try and gain ballot access as an independent. What we are accomplishing is not only a chance for Paul to win the White House, but we are winning in the further dissemination of the freedom message to those vast ocean of voters who are sick of the possibilities of a president Barack McClinton. So, Thane, with all due respect sir, we win in any case, as Ron Paul campaign continues to keep the message in front of the voters. But this time we get a chance to really play hard ball by Paul making the harsh comparisons to voters of his policies versus the statist candidates Barack McClinton. While the Paulian grassroots focus like lasers in their individual precincts.

So you see, we win either way. Critical mass may be reached in this election or the next. But we must refuse from ever leaving a void where the two statist parties are left to de-fraud the country once again with their false promises of welfarism and warfarism. Can you truly imagine sitting silent while the country goes down the tubes?

see the lessons learned that we can apply in Phase B//3rd party campaign http://www.nolanchart.com/article2532.html

[HollyforRP]

I think people are weighing the pros and cons of running on an established party and feel that almost every party will come with baggage of preformed notions about it.

I worry that the Libertarian label will push potential voters on both the right and left away.


Label followers will follow labels. Message followers will follow the message.

Independants have the most difficulty getting their names on the ballots where as an established party will have their name on the ballot.

I mean hell, how many independants and democrats switched to republican to vote for Ron Paul??

[qh4dotcom]

If the GOP and Democratic nominees are McCain and Hillary...they have millions of people who can't stand them....plus McCain and Hillary will be revealing each other's dirt and are likely to be fighting like cats and dogs...those millions will be forced to vote 3rd party or Independent.

[morerocklesstalk]

Label followers will follow labels. Message followers will follow the message.

Independants have the most difficulty getting their names on the ballots where as an established party will have their name on the ballot.

I mean hell, how many independants and democrats switched to republican to vote for Ron Paul??

It's a mixture of label and message. We would be naive to believe that appearance has nothing to do with this.

I know in a previous poll on this message board today about 1/2 were previous 3rd party/indie supporters or democratics. I was registered Libertarian before the caucus in my state, so I have no hate for them but there is a stigma attached to the name.