Running 3rd Party is Not What It Seems

[Rob]

I've done A LOT of work for the campaign in Michigan and have met many different supporters. I can say with certainty that in Michigan, the majority of Ron Paul supporters are Republicans or disaffected Republicans. The majority are also Christians.

These boards are NOT representative of who is voting for us.

I'd estimate (from Michigan) we have about 65% of some type of Republicans making up our voters and about 75% Christians. The number of truthers that support Ron Paul is also very low I'd estimate about 10 to 15 percent. Again this is from my experience in Michigan.

If you looked at these forums, you'd think the majority were liberal atheists, and that may well be true about these forums, but now out in the real world.

I'd also like to add there are major discrepancies between the average Ron Paul voter and the "hardcore supporters"

Atheists, marijuana activists, peace activists, and truthers make up a disproportionate part of our "hardcore" supporters.

This is all very important and you need to think about the big picture. If we run independent, you can expect everyone on the forums and all the hardcore supporters to still supporter Ron Paul, but we're going to lose a substantial chunk of our base. If you think that people who already vote for Ron Paul won't vote for the Republican nominee, you haven't been talking enough to our casual voters, and believe me we have MANY of them.

Wherever Ron goes, I'll vote for him, but be aware many will not. How many of you have actually worked for a 3rd party candidate that is not a billionaire?

If you think things are bad now, you haven't seen anything yet.

[RageAgainstDC]

we're going to lose a substantial portion of our base if we continue to lose and it begins to look more and more like we have no hope of winning. i'd bet every dollar in my pocket that atleast 10-15% of the people who would've voted for ron paul before now won't because he "has already lost". an independent run is our only chance at not only the presidency, but continuing the growth of our movement.

besides, i'd rather have the system be against me than have the people who are running the party i'm trying to get nominated for be against me.

[Jae0]

Not true. No one around here knows who Ron Paul is. This gives us the advantage of having things stacked out way. Only talking about the good he's done in states, the donations he's received, and talking about his stances on the issues.

[Johncjackson]

Well, we also have the chance to pickup Inds, Dems, and Libertarians- you know those people who dont vote in GOP primaries.

[freejack]

let's give him a chance to let his message out during the brokered convention. eyes will be opened and hearts will be turned. he may not win the GOP nomination but the momemtum he gains from the convention will allow him to run as a strong indenpendent.

[Rob]

Well, we also have the chance to pickup Inds, Dems, and Libertarians- you know those people who dont vote in GOP primaries.

That's all true, but most Dems are just as opposed to voting 3rd party as most Republicans. We won't even get the entire Libertarian vote, there are many in the party who oppose him strongly for not being Libertarian enough. If Ron tries to get the nomination of the Libertarian Party, he'll ACTUALLY get opposition, probably only about 15%, but that should give you an idea of how that may not be the best idea.

[Jae0]

Well, we also have the chance to pickup Inds, Dems, and Libertarians- you know those people who dont vote in GOP primaries.

I also know a lot of people who hate the republican party and would love to give them a kick in their ass.

There are also a lot of first time voters around here that could end up in our basket.

[ToryNotion]

i hope the decision comes down to what is the best way to keep getting the message of adherence to the constitution, limited government, sound money, freedom, peace and prosperity out there. i think dr paul will continue as long as his efforts help spread the message. it taken generations of persistent effort my the enemies of freedom to get us in this mess so the fix won't come overnight either

[RageAgainstDC]

Not true. No one around here knows who Ron Paul is. This gives us the advantage of having things stacked out way. Only talking about the good he's done in states, the donations he's received, and talking about his stances on the issues.

...meanwhile everything these people are reading in the paper and hearing on television refute your claims that ron is succeeding. face it, the media has pretty much screwed us on that one.

[Jae0]

...meanwhile everything these people are reading in the paper and hearing on television refute your claims that ron is succeeding. face it, the media has pretty much screwed us on that one.

HA! You assume the people around here even listen to anything political. They dont. I know my people around here. The majority dont watch the debates. They dont watch news for politics. And most of them cnt even name all of the people running.

[RageAgainstDC]

That's all true, but most Dems are just as opposed to voting 3rd party as most Republicans. We won't even get the entire Libertarian vote, there are many in the party who oppose him strongly for not being Libertarian enough. If Ron tries to get the nomination of the Libertarian Party, he'll ACTUALLY get opposition, probably only about 15%, but that should give you an idea of how that may not be the best idea.

that's precisely why you go independent. noone wants to call themselves a libertarian or green party member, but the majority of the electorate (in some places) is registered independent.

[familydog]

I've done A LOT of work for the campaign in Michigan and have met many different supporters. I can say with certainty that in Michigan, the majority of Ron Paul supporters are Republicans or disaffected Republicans. The majority are also Christians.

These boards are NOT representative of who is voting for us.

I'd estimate (from Michigan) we have about 65% of some type of Republicans making up our voters and about 75% Christians. The number of truthers that support Ron Paul is also very low I'd estimate about 10 to 15 percent. Again this is from my experience in Michigan.

If you looked at these forums, you'd think the majority were liberal atheists, and that may well be true about these forums, but now out in the real world.

I'd also like to add there are major discrepancies between the average Ron Paul voter and the "hardcore supporters"

Atheists, marijuana activists, peace activists, and truthers make up a disproportionate part of our "hardcore" supporters.

This is all very important and you need to think about the big picture. If we run independent, you can expect everyone on the forums and all the hardcore supporters to still supporter Ron Paul, but we're going to lose a substantial chunk of our base. If you think that people who already vote for Ron Paul won't vote for the Republican nominee, you haven't been talking enough to our casual voters, and believe me we have MANY of them.

Wherever Ron goes, I'll vote for him, but be aware many will not. How many of you have actually worked for a 3rd party candidate that is not a billionaire?

If you think things are bad now, you haven't seen anything yet.

Risky post on a day like this lol.

Good post though. One question (out of the many) that all these third party/independent pushers won't answer is this. Ron Paul appeals mostly to the right. He appeals to those in the middle and on the left as well as we have seen, but it wasn't nearly enough to do very much in the primary as most of them were voting for Obama and Clinton. So here is the question. If we can't win over a majority of the people on the right, how can we win as an independent or third party?

[RageAgainstDC]

HA! You assume the people around here even listen to anything political. They dont. I know my people around here. The majority dont watch the debates. They dont watch news for politics. And most of them cnt even name all of the people running.

well, that may be the case where you are, but it's not a strategy that will work nationally. trust me. people know who the frontrunners are, atleast in general. i think the primary results prove that..

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

You're leaving out the fact that millions of antiwar people would NEVER vote in a GOP primary.

You are also leaving out millions of anti-amnesty people who would flock to us.

Ron got 63% of indepenents in NV.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

that's precisely why you go independent. noone wants to call themselves a libertarian or green party member, but the majority of the electorate (in some places) is registered independent.

Indepenent is ten times better than Libertarian Party. People WANT to vote "independent."

[RageAgainstDC]

Risky post on a day like this lol.

Good post though. One question (out of the many) that all these third party/independent pushers won't answer is this. Ron Paul appeals mostly to the right. He appeals to those in the middle and on the left as well as we have seen, but it wasn't nearly enough to do very much in the primary as most of them were voting for Obama and Clinton. So here is the question. If we can't win over a majority of the people on the right, how can we win as an independent or third party?

because the conservatives we are trying to win aren't conservatives. they're neocons. your statement assumes that we should have an easier time winning conservatives because we share their ideology, but we don't. they're warmongers. also, we're running for the nomination of a party that would sooner shoot themselves in the face than nominate our candidate.

[noztnac]

Why do people suddenly think the Republican Party will suddenly quit screwing Ron Paul over in a brokered convention?

[familydog]

because the conservatives we are trying to win aren't conservatives. they're neocons. your statement assumes that we should have an easier time winning conservatives because we share their ideology, but we don't. they're warmongers. also, we're running for the nomination of a party that would sooner shoot themselves in the face than nominate our candidate.

Well, then why the hell didn't the "real conservaitves" vote for Paul in the primary?

[Rob]

Why do people suddenly think the Republican Party will suddenly quit screwing Ron Paul over in a brokered convention?

We don't, we don't expect to win, we just hope for it. At the same time, many of us are reflecting that in many ways we've already won. We've almost quintupled the size of the libertarian movement in less than a year. We're also looking for ways to utilize this new base of support and to continue to grow it. (See my signature).

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

Why do people suddenly think the Republican Party will suddenly quit screwing Ron Paul over in a brokered convention?

Some people are still in a fantasy land.

The people with brains around here are rallying around an independent run.

[Rob]

Indepenent is ten times better than Libertarian Party. People WANT to vote "independent."

Some certainly do, but most "independents" are really incognito Democrats or Republicans who call themselves "indecent" to make themselves feel like they're individualistic even though they're not.

(See entire Emo and Goth "movements" for good analogies).

[WRellim]

I've done A LOT of work for the campaign in Michigan and have met many different supporters. I can say with certainty that in Michigan, the majority of Ron Paul supporters are Republicans or disaffected Republicans. The majority are also Christians.

These boards are NOT representative of who is voting for us.

I'd estimate (from Michigan) we have about 65% of some type of Republicans making up our voters and about 75% Christians. The number of truthers that support Ron Paul is also very low I'd estimate about 10 to 15 percent. Again this is from my experience in Michigan.

If you looked at these forums, you'd think the majority were liberal atheists, and that may well be true about these forums, but now out in the real world.

I'd also like to add there are major discrepancies between the average Ron Paul voter and the "hardcore supporters"

Atheists, marijuana activists, peace activists, and truthers make up a disproportionate part of our "hardcore" supporters.

This is all very important and you need to think about the big picture. If we run independent, you can expect everyone on the forums and all the hardcore supporters to still supporter Ron Paul, but we're going to lose a substantial chunk of our base. If you think that people who already vote for Ron Paul won't vote for the Republican nominee, you haven't been talking enough to our casual voters, and believe me we have MANY of them.

Wherever Ron goes, I'll vote for him, but be aware many will not. How many of you have actually worked for a 3rd party candidate that is not a billionaire?

If you think things are bad now, you haven't seen anything yet.

I'm going to go out on a limb here with a *wild guess* on my part, but something tells me that (at least around these parts) the most rabid "truthers"** who also seem to be the most vocal for a 3rd party run -- those "truthers"...

do not vote.

They shout, they "Chase Rudy" they help with sign waves and banner paintings, and maybe even other campaign duties... but the most rabid "truthers" simply do not and will not actually go out and vote.

Even for Ron Paul. Even in lower percentages that the ever-mythical "youth vote."

Why? Pure speculation, but I think it could be called "Paranoia."

Because voting typically requires registering. It thus puts you into yet another database, which is then integrated into other databases and used for other purposes (jury duty, etc).




**Clarification: By most rabid "truthers" I do NOT mean "truther" in the sense of people who believe we have not learned the truth about 911. I fit THAT description. No, I mean the bullhorn guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ouz24ibMiI) because, bullhorn guy, we love ya, but I don't think it's working (or worse, maybe it is, but just not in the way you want.)

[stevedasbach]

i hope the decision comes down to what is the best way to keep getting the message of adherence to the constitution, limited government, sound money, freedom, peace and prosperity out there. i think dr paul will continue as long as his efforts help spread the message. it taken generations of persistent effort my the enemies of freedom to get us in this mess so the fix won't come overnight either

+1776

[Maltheus]

I live in one of the most conservative counties in Colorado. All of his supporters here would jump ship and follow him. That's not a problem. And we get so many people coming in to the office who'd like to support Paul, but they weren't Republicans. Many of our "Republicans" have only been so for a few months. I definitely believe our base would grow if we went third party and I kind of think Paul has no choice, if he wants to keep up the fundraising.

Also, I watched a McCain supporter get booed off the stage last night by 400 people. A couple were even threatening violence. It was surreal. These people are never gonna rally around McCain. As a 3rd party candidate, they'd have no choice but to vote for Paul.

[RageAgainstDC]

Well, then why the hell didn't the "real conservaitves" vote for Paul in the primary?

they didn't obviously. that's why we lost. that's why we need to run independent, so the movement can continue and the message can get out. keep thinking... itll come to you eventually ;)

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

I live in one of the most conservative counties in Colorado. All of his supporters here would jump ship and follow him. That's not a problem. And we get so many people coming in to the office who'd like to support Paul, but they weren't Republicans. Many of our "Republicans" have only been so for a few months. I definitely believe our base would grow if we went third party and I kind of think Paul has no choice, if he wants to keep up the fundraising.

Also, I watched a McCain supporter get booed off the stage last night by 400 people. A couple were even threatening violence. It was surreal. These people are never gonna rally around McCain. As a 3rd party candidate, they'd have no choice but to vote for Paul.

Great post.

[WRellim]

Some people are still in a fantasy land.

The people with brains around here are rallying around an independent run.

Oh, wow. So this is what your argument has descended to? An ad hominem attack against anyone who doesn't 100% agree with what YOU personally want to do.

I am UN-impressed.

[TurtleBurger]

Maybe just wishful thinking, but I think a lot of conservatives are going to get a serious case of buyer's remorse once they get a good look at what they nominated. A McCain-Clinton election leaves even mainstream conservatives out in the cold. If there's ever a time when a third party has a chance (and I'm not saying there is) it would be this year.

[familydog]

I'm going to go out on a limb here with a *wild guess* on my part, but something tells me that (at least around these parts) the most rabid "truthers"** who also seem to be the most vocal for a 3rd party run -- those "truthers"...

do not vote.

They shout, they "Chase Rudy" they help with sign waves and banner paintings, and maybe even other campaign duties... but the most rabid "truthers" simply do not and will not actually go out and vote.

Even for Ron Paul. Even in lower percentages that the ever-mythical "youth vote."

Why? Pure speculation, but I think it could be called "Paranoia."

Because voting typically requires registering. It thus puts you into yet another database, which is then integrated into other databases and used for other purposes (jury duty, etc).




**Clarification: By most rabid "truthers" I do NOT mean "truther" in the sense of people who believe we have not learned the truth about 911. I fit THAT description. No, I mean the bullhorn guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ouz24ibMiI) because, bullhorn guy, we love ya, but I don't think it's working (or worse, maybe it is, but just not in the way you want.)

The key here in your post is speculation.

These pro-indy run people offer up no evidence to back up their claims that Paul will raise 100 million dollars, get into all the debates, get massive media attention, and get million and million and millions of more voters. The claims are anecdotal and are rediculous. Can all that happens? Maybe, you never know. But blind faith in this crap is scary.

[firebirdnation]

I live in one of the most conservative counties in Colorado. All of his supporters here would jump ship and follow him. That's not a problem. And we get so many people coming in to the office who'd like to support Paul, but they weren't Republicans. Many of our "Republicans" have only been so for a few months. I definitely believe our base would grow if we went third party and I kind of think Paul has no choice, if he wants to keep up the fundraising.

Also, I watched a McCain supporter get booed off the stage last night by 400 people. A couple were even threatening violence. It was surreal. These people are never gonna rally around McCain. As a 3rd party candidate, they'd have no choice but to vote for Paul.

I agree, and I even think the major talk show hosts who HATE McCain would eventually support RP for President. I may be wrong, but lets take a look at the alternative!:eek:

[Rob]

I live in one of the most conservative counties in Colorado. All of his supporters here would jump ship and follow him. That's not a problem. And we get so many people coming in to the office who'd like to support Paul, but they weren't Republicans. Many of our "Republicans" have only been so for a few months. I definitely believe our base would grow if we went third party and I kind of think Paul has no choice, if he wants to keep up the fundraising.

Also, I watched a McCain supporter get booed off the stage last night by 400 people. A couple were even threatening violence. It was surreal. These people are never gonna rally around McCain. As a 3rd party candidate, they'd have no choice but to vote for Paul.

You need to make the distinction between supporters and voters. There tend to be 4 or more voters for every supporter we have. Just look at the number of donators vs. voters we have. I agree with you, all supporters will follow; the people who sign wave and go to meetups will follow. The voters will not.

[Rob]

Maybe just wishful thinking, but I think a lot of conservatives are going to get a serious case of buyer's remorse once they get a good look at what they nominated. A McCain-Clinton election leaves even mainstream conservatives out in the cold. If there's ever a time when a third party has a chance (and I'm not saying there is) it would be this year.

I'm sorry but I think that is just wishful thinking. America is moving disturbingly close to a mob rule. People seem to seem to play "follow the leader" more and more. Sure, they may complain about McCain, but I'll bet come election time, they vote Republican anyway. It wouldn't be the first time something like this happened. How many Dems who didn't like Kerry actually voted for someone else? Mind you they had socialist Nader and very anti-war Badnarik to choose from.

[jpa]

Exit polls have shown most RP supporters are aethist...

[Jae0]

What happens to his delegates he has now if he changes party run?
How does he get on the ballots in the next states where the deadlines have passed or where he's already on as republican?
How can he run for Congress as Republican but President as third party?
How does he explain to the next states that their work doesnt matter and they're going to have to start all over again with canvassing?

^^ anyone?

[Rob]

Exit polls have shown most RP supporters are aethist...

Please cite a source.

[Maltheus]

You need to make the distinction between supporters and voters. There tend to be 4 or more voters for every supporter we have. Just look at the number of donators vs. voters we have. I agree with you, all supporters will follow; the people who sign wave and go to meetups will follow. The voters will not.

I was talking about supporters in my first paragraph, but I was talking about voters in the second. I think there's a lot of voters out there who will simply never vote for McCain. That wasn't so clear to me before last night. Hillary vs. McCain will lead to so much disaffection in this country, that we might stand a shot.

I agree that a 3rd party bid would be a longshot and it would mean Dr. Paul has to give up his congressional seat, but I think it's the best chance he has. If he stays in for a brokered convention (which probably won't be brokered at this point), then he won't be able to afford to get the word out between now and then. They're practically broke. He needs to go third party if he wants to raise more money. The longer he stays in, the more people he wakes up.

[ronpaulitician]

An independent or third party run may be an uphill battle, but I know plenty of Republicans who say they won't vote for McCain, and I also know plenty of Democrats who say they won't vote for Clinton. On top of that, I've heard a lot of people who like what Ron Paul has to say say that they won't support him as long as he runs in the GOP.

[Maltheus]

Please cite a source.

The CNN exit polls for Nevada showed that Paul did best among Catholics and Atheists, so it's true for that state anyway. I live in a very religious area and I'd say that it's about 50/50 religious/non-religious supporters.

[colecrowe]

Thank you for the good, reasoned post. Great info. But I disagree with you saying that we will lose "substantial support". We don't have substantial support. We have like 8% support--at the VERY most (average it out--and be realistic--you will agree it's 8% at the very most--and it's way too late for a brokered convention).

I disagree and don't think we get support mainly from christian/republican types--I think that is unique to your experience--and besides, that ground obviously isn't that fertile compared to other, broader ground--just look at our results, even in Michigan, your example. But, also, I absolutely have never thought we would get our support from pot smokers, truthers, etc.

Our support comes, and will come in a HUGE way if we go iNDY, from people who are anti-war, pro-constitution, and most importantly TIRED OF BEING LIED TO, TIRED OF LOBBYISTS, AND HUNGRY FOR THE TYPE OF STATESMAN ONLY RON PAUL IS.

People will vote for Ron Paul for his record that is so amazing, and so different, even if they disagree with some of his stances. Proof: The same exact thing made me, my wife, my father-in-law, father, grandpa-in-law, and on and on (including many family members I never proselytized to!) choose Paul: HIS HONESTY--the fact that he's not a "politician" like ALL the others. Once they hear that he has never gotten lobbyist money, never changed his stances, AND ONCE THEY HEAR HIM SPEAK, they are hooked.

But not the GOP sheep--the pro Iraq war types. That is why we have to get out of the GOP.

If we go iNDY, we will also get all the anti-war GOPers. Plus, we might get more GOPers than that if McCain is the nominee--because of immigration and character (he cheated on his wife and is married to his mistress now).

Plus, we haven't got to capitalize on running anti-war ads, especially with veterans in them supporting him. We need to make a much bigger deal about the amazing amount of money he raised from military members (more than all the Republicans put together) in ads, etc.

We also haven't capitalized on his being an Obstetrician for 30 years, and so much more. His name recognition is extremely dismal--we need a fresh start with exposure in every state--not just those left in the GOP race.



I've done A LOT of work for the campaign in Michigan and have met many different supporters. I can say with certainty that in Michigan, the majority of Ron Paul supporters are Republicans or disaffected Republicans. The majority are also Christians.

These boards are NOT representative of who is voting for us.

I'd estimate (from Michigan) we have about 65% of some type of Republicans making up our voters and about 75% Christians. The number of truthers that support Ron Paul is also very low I'd estimate about 10 to 15 percent. Again this is from my experience in Michigan.

If you looked at these forums, you'd think the majority were liberal atheists, and that may well be true about these forums, but now out in the real world.

I'd also like to add there are major discrepancies between the average Ron Paul voter and the "hardcore supporters"

Atheists, marijuana activists, peace activists, and truthers make up a disproportionate part of our "hardcore" supporters.

This is all very important and you need to think about the big picture. If we run independent, you can expect everyone on the forums and all the hardcore supporters to still supporter Ron Paul, but we're going to lose a substantial chunk of our base. If you think that people who already vote for Ron Paul won't vote for the Republican nominee, you haven't been talking enough to our casual voters, and believe me we have MANY of them.

Wherever Ron goes, I'll vote for him, but be aware many will not. How many of you have actually worked for a 3rd party candidate that is not a billionaire?

If you think things are bad now, you haven't seen anything yet.

[colecrowe]

Exit polls have shown most RP supporters are aethist...

Absolutely! Irrefutable. Go look at any exit polls on CNN. (Not atheist really--but just average Christian like the majority of Americans.

I am an evangelical, but I am in the minority. The churches voted for bush--and will now vote for Huck or McCain or even Romney. Never Paul.

Those in my church and other churches I know who are anti-war or that have been to Iraq or had family there, support Ron Paul however.

[morerocklesstalk]

An independent or third party run may be an uphill battle, but I know plenty of Republicans who say they won't vote for McCain, and I also know plenty of Democrats who say they won't vote for Clinton. On top of that, I've heard a lot of people who like what Ron Paul has to say say that they won't support him as long as he runs in the GOP.

Just look at it here out in the West. We are running very high percentages and if Romney is not in the equation I really believe that we could garner some of their support. Ron Paul defended Mitt Romney's faith while on Leno and I think people will respect that if you show them the clip.

We will be the ONLY conservative in a race against McCain and Clinton.

[colecrowe]

check out my sig...

[Satyricon]

This is what I posted in another thread as it relates to a possible third party run:

This is why I believe that if he's going to make the effort to run third party, it is IMPERATIVE that he get in the debates. Getting on the ballots is not enough IMO.

I would not expect a win even if he DOES get into the debates, but I believe that people will hear what he has to say and agree with it and he can, at the very least, have the impact that Perot did.

I am not trying to be a downer or a "troll" or anything of the short, but I believe that Ron does not want to run third party if he's just going to burn through all his money trying to get on ballots and then have nothing after that, nor any debate coverage. That is not something I'm sure he wants to go through again nor should he because I believe it is wasted effort. The better thing to do in that scenario would be to push the Congressional effort as has been discussed.

It should be interesting and I will support him no matter what transpires.

[colecrowe]

The only way to utilize the extremely powerful precinct captain system is to go iNDY. Then we can work in all 50 states instead of only the half that are left. And we can get real support (from outside the GOP). And we will have 8 months to do it.


Stop with the indy crap. If Paul decides to do that I will back him, but he has very good reason not to. First of all you will still get the "I am not going to wast my vote" bull crap from a ton of people who think an independent will never be able to win anyway. Second, a brokered convention may still be a possibility and our best shot. If that fails then we can think about independent. But until one of those things happens please give this crap a rest. Please!

1. A brokered convention is not going to happen.

2. Canvassing is done for in half the states as of now, unless he goes iNDY. If he goes iNDY, on the other hand, we would have 8 months to canvass and get 200,000 plus precinct captains.

3. ...:

my dad said he'd donate another 500 to Paul (IF he announces 3rd party) (he donated 200 on Dec. 16th--but that was when it seemed like he REALLY could maybe, possibly win the Nom. I would donate 500 the day he declares (even though it will hurt financially), whereas I can't afford to give anymore (I gave just over a 1,100 in Q4 to the cause--so shut up) for his Republican run; and gramps would probably wager another 1776.00

The 2nd and 3rd tier, broader-base of supporters aren't (many or most of them) going to donate MORE--if they already have once--because TO THEM it is obvious or at least nearly certain that he's not going to get the Nom from the Republican party (I'm not saying I believe that--but they DO). However, they would be very willing and enthusiastic about supporting him in an iNDEPENDENT run.

[Jae0]

2. Canvassing is done for in half the states as of now, unless he goes iNDY. If he goes iNDY, on the other hand, we would have 8 months to canvass and get 200,000 plus precinct captains.


WRONG.

[colecrowe]

why? just because you pressed the CAPS LOCK button and then typed the letters w-r-o-n-g?


2. Canvassing is done for in half the states as of now, unless he goes iNDY. If he goes iNDY, on the other hand, we would have 8 months to canvass and get 200,000 plus precinct captains.


WRONG.

[speciallyblend]

My VOTE FOR RON PAUL IS ALREADY WRIITEN IN STONE, doesnt matter what the gop thinks anymore,they already blew it. my caucus last night proved the gop is pretty much clueless.Is that my fault? NOPE:) keep pushing Ron Paul,he truly is our only choice. gop or not

[speciallyblend]

what everyone fails to understand.

the gop doesnt want ron paul. thats reality.

[Maltheus]

my dad said he'd donate another 500 to Paul (IF he announces 3rd party) (he donated 200 on Dec. 16th--but that was when it seemed like he REALLY could maybe, possibly win the Nom. I would donate 500 the day he declares (even though it will hurt financially), whereas I can't afford to give anymore (I gave just over a 1,100 in Q4 to the cause--so shut up) for his Republican run; and gramps would probably wager another 1776.00

This is really the best argument for going 3rd party. We're out of money and nobody's gonna contribute more for some fleeting chance of being able to speak at a brokered convention. However, the day he announces 3rd party, you'll have a spontaneous money bomb of mammoth proportions.

[morerocklesstalk]

what everyone fails to understand.

the gop doesnt want ron paul. thats reality.

I've understood that for quite some time now.

I think many of us maybe living in a vacuum and surround ourselves with only like-minded people because the average, rank and file Republican hates us and don't even consider us a Republican.

[grizzums]

I still do not understand why people seem to have more loyalty to their party than their country...I just don't get it.

[krott5333]

I've done A LOT of work for the campaign in Michigan and have met many different supporters. I can say with certainty that in Michigan, the majority of Ron Paul supporters are Republicans or disaffected Republicans. The majority are also Christians.

These boards are NOT representative of who is voting for us.

I'd estimate (from Michigan) we have about 65% of some type of Republicans making up our voters and about 75% Christians. The number of truthers that support Ron Paul is also very low I'd estimate about 10 to 15 percent. Again this is from my experience in Michigan.

If you looked at these forums, you'd think the majority were liberal atheists, and that may well be true about these forums, but now out in the real world.

I'd also like to add there are major discrepancies between the average Ron Paul voter and the "hardcore supporters"

Atheists, marijuana activists, peace activists, and truthers make up a disproportionate part of our "hardcore" supporters.

This is all very important and you need to think about the big picture. If we run independent, you can expect everyone on the forums and all the hardcore supporters to still supporter Ron Paul, but we're going to lose a substantial chunk of our base. If you think that people who already vote for Ron Paul won't vote for the Republican nominee, you haven't been talking enough to our casual voters, and believe me we have MANY of them.

Wherever Ron goes, I'll vote for him, but be aware many will not. How many of you have actually worked for a 3rd party candidate that is not a billionaire?

If you think things are bad now, you haven't seen anything yet.

I've been a registered republican all my life, and up until 2 years ago I was a racist, homophobic neocon. I will gladly vote for Ron Paul no matter what party her runs for, as I have vowed to never vote for the party, but for the man (or woman).

[grizzums]

This whole party nonsense just has me continually shaking my head...

I voted for Bush Jr. (twice)...I voted for Dole...I voted for Perot (after Bush senior broke his promise)...so in my presidential voting career, I have voted pretty much entirely conservative...but I've always been open to vote ànother direction if need be...

The attraction for me, as I know many others for Paul was the message. I give a rats ass what party he's in now that my eyes have been opened to and I have heard "the message"... I'd vote for him as a Republican, a Democrat, an Independant,a Libertarian, a Constitutionalist, a Green Party candidate, hell, a Whig....I could care less.... I am voting for his MESSAGE and his RECORD to back it up... Isn't everybody else?

Help me understand...please. Why does it matter? If he has a message and plan that you believe in, and he has a record to prove that his message isn't a bunch of lip service, then what's the problem?

Do people today have no spine...generally speaking? I'm just dumbfounded by this notion that the OP brings up in that by going independent he'll lose a chunk of his base. Why?

[affa]

We can either continue to argue back and forth on this obviously divisive issue... OR... we could trust that the man himself, who obviously has a strategy. There is evidence everywhere - holding back $8 million, for example. Another good one - why else would he have a book written and ready for release in April entitled Revolution: A Manifesto?

There is a plan.

This is not to say we shouldn't discuss our options. But the arguing and name calling really needs to stop.

[DeafPalmdale]

This whole party nonsense just has me continually shaking my head...

I voted for Bush Jr. (twice)...I voted for Dole...I voted for Perot (after Bush senior broke his promise)...so in my presidential voting career, I have voted pretty much entirely conservative...but I've always been open to vote ànother direction if need be...

The attraction for me, as I know many others for Paul was the message. I give a rats ass what party he's in now that my eyes have been opened to and I have heard "the message"... I'd vote for him as a Republican, a Democrat, an Independant,a Libertarian, a Constitutionalist, a Green Party candidate, hell, a Whig....I could care less.... I am voting for his MESSAGE and his RECORD to back it up... Isn't everybody else?

Help me understand...please. Why does it matter? If he has a message and plan that you believe in, and he has a record to prove that his message isn't a bunch of lip service, then what's the problem?

Do people today have no spine...generally speaking? I'm just dumbfounded by this notion that the OP brings up in that by going independent he'll lose a chunk of his base. Why?

Well said. :cool:

[dvictr]

i'm a marijuana activist

[Maltheus]

There is evidence everywhere - holding back $8 million, for example.

Where did you hear that? I strongly doubt that we have that much left in our coffers. Maybe $5 million. We haven't been holding back much, spending-wise. More like drunken sailors.