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RonPaulFTFW
02-06-2008, 09:18 AM
Hillary will win.
McCain will win.

We can choose between hypocrisy, cowardice, and war. (Hilary)
Or we can choose war, greed, and stupidity. (McCain)

The corporations have won, and our country must hang its head in shame to the world that we can't make educated decisions.

I love Ron Paul. However, we must face facts. He's just not getting enough delegates, votes, and attention. We can't keep raising money telling people we'll win when we aren't winning much of anything. A few second places are great, (even though the second places we did get didn't win us much) but how can you convince people to vote for Ron Paul now in states that haven't voted?

"Hi, this little known senator from Texas will tell you the truth and save our country, but he only gets 3 percent of the vote, and has less than 20 delegates. Please vote for him in a primary that nobody will pay much attention to?"


I think our process doesn't allow for a Rope A Dope strategy anymore. You have to have Media momentum to win. It's a popularity contest to get dumb people to vote on a name and some images. We all laugh at Rudy, but we did the same thing he did. We didn't try hard enough in the big early states. And we didn't do so well in states we thought we'd win.

The media owns us all and their interests are those of the politicians who can snow blind us into mute acceptance.

And yes, Maybe if we hang in and build for another 8 years we can see a Ron Paul Like candidate do well.... But who knows if we'll have a country then? Or how much stronger the strangle hold of media will be by then? Do you think they will continue to allow us to use the internet after what they've seen happen with Ron Paul? Moves on net neutrality will increase 10 fold.

I think ... I honestly believe now that the only way this country will change is with armed revolution.

The apathy is too far reaching and the media too strong.

I'd love to hear somebody give me some real reasons to keep going. I love the hearty talk of sticking it out, and flexing our muscles, and learning, and trying harder........But I think we all need some hard, sober facts.

Ron also has a seat in congress to run for. If he's away trying to win a handful of delegates he could maybe lose his voice there.

Is it worth it?

jumpyg1258
02-06-2008, 09:27 AM
One things for sure about yesterday, the United States lost.

ambiguousscion
02-06-2008, 09:28 AM
Nobody lost cause it's not over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QuesoPantera
02-06-2008, 09:29 AM
The only way to get the media's attention now is to do what they've wanted all along, and announce a third party run. That's the story they are prepared to cover. They have written him off completely in the Repub race. All the wishful thinking is fantastic, guys but no one is willing to put him in front of the camera anymore in his current situation.

AgentOrange
02-06-2008, 09:34 AM
"Hi, this little known senator from Texas will tell you the truth and save our country, but he only gets 3 percent of the vote, and has less than 20 delegates. Please vote for him in a primary that nobody will pay much attention to?"


What do they have to lose by voting for Paul? If someone thinks McCain is a done deal, than what does it hurt to vote their conscience?

Not to mention, "In May of 1860, the votes of 233 delegates were required to win the Republican nomination. Abraham Lincoln arrived at that convention starting only with the support of the 22 delegates from Illinois. He went on to win the nomination."...

Keep repeating that, that is deep.

QuesoPantera
02-06-2008, 09:35 AM
Nobody lost cause it's not over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your statement is technically true, my friend, and I wish you the best.

Let's put this in football terms (as a Giants fan I've been using these analogies all week :D):

We're mid-way through the fourth quarter, and the score is 70-3. The game is not over, as with your assertion, but there is not enough time to win this one. We need to switch to soccer.

colin1
02-06-2008, 09:36 AM
The only way to get the media's attention now is to do what they've wanted all along, and announce a third party run. That's the story they are prepared to cover. They have written him off completely in the Repub race. All the wishful thinking is fantastic, guys but no one is willing to put him in front of the camera anymore in his current situation.

The MSM doesn't care about third party runs! They will not cover it. Do you remember ever seeing anything back in '88 (assuming you're old enough) when Ron ran as a Libertarian? I think it would be a titanic waste of time and resources. We should be marshalling our resources into continuing this grassroots effort in getting Ron Paul style candidates elected in local, state and national races. Let's not waste millions in some quixotic third party bid for President.

LFoDNH
02-06-2008, 10:12 AM
Yes, the system is broken and we are trying to fix it from the top down...
Sometimes a bottom up approach works better :)
http://www.freestateproject.org/
The Free State Project

Are you frustrated at the loss of freedom and responsibility in America, while the growth of government and taxes continues unabated? Do you want to live in strong communities where your rights are respected, and people exercise responsibility for themselves and in their dealings with each other?

If you answered "yes" to those questions, then the Free State Project has a solution for you.

What the Free State Project is... The Free State Project is an effort to recruit 20,000 liberty-loving people to move to New Hampshire. We are looking for neighborly, productive, tolerant folks from all walks of life, of all ages, creeds, and colors who agree to the political philosophy ... that government exists at most to protect people's rights, and should neither provide for people nor punish them for activities that interfere with no one else.

What the Free State Project is not... We are not a political action organization. We are not tied to any political party or organization; we do not run candidates for election, we do not financially support or endorse candidates, and we do not oppose or endorse legislation. All these things will be done by local activist organizations with which many Free Staters are involved.
Please check it out and ask any question in the forum.
Disclaimer: I am not a freestater; I lived in NH well before the FSP started. We need more freedom loving people to help our fight. NH already told the Fed to pound sand when we outright rejected the Real ID Act as “contrary and repugnant” to the New Hampshire and U.S. Constitutions.

Lois
02-06-2008, 10:16 AM
We can fight our a**es off, but as long as there is Voter Fraud, it's all for nothing.

Wake up, Sheeple. :rolleyes:

ambiguousscion
02-06-2008, 10:17 AM
Your statement is technically true, my friend, and I wish you the best.

Let's put this in football terms (as a Giants fan I've been using these analogies all week :D):

We're mid-way through the fourth quarter, and the score is 70-3. The game is not over, as with your assertion, but there is not enough time to win this one. We need to switch to soccer.

The problem with that analogy is that you are supposing that you are a spectator watching TV, so all you do is "change channels". I guess if you want to change channels, go right ahead, I see myself as being at the live game cheering on the team... there is no other game when you are at the field, this is it and thus all you can do is change strategies not rules, not games. You work harder and smarter.

rancher89
02-06-2008, 10:17 AM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=113790

I have two posts that I've been sharing, both came from the worldwide meetup page, but were reposted from ronpaulforums I think. I don't think anyone will mind me reposting them here. (If you have the link to the original poster, please respond to me in a pm and I'll insert it into this message.) The idea is that we still have a chance, a choice--it's not over yet.

Repost #1
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We can win this nomination through a brokered convention but need to be in a better position delegate wise, to do it. A post by bcreps85 in http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=113466&page=2 (post 12) got me to thinking:

?...there are more than 20 states left, and we are the only ones with any money left. After Super Tuesday everyone else just plans to coast through on momentum...as far as everyone else knows the races are pretty much over after tonight. The MSM will crown McCain as king and everyone will just assume he has nothing to worry about after tonight. No reason to stop now.?

Considering our strengths and weaknesses, we are in a better position now than for previous primaries and caucuses.

We are weak when we have to depend on the MSN to get the message out. Cramming all the super Tuesday states together makes us very dependent on the coverage whey will give us and minimizes our superior grassroots support. People can't help other states when their own state has a primary the same day. We have a lot of support, but swarming spread out primaries gives us a force multiplier the other campaigns don't have.

Strengths:

Our numbers.
Our ability to raise money via money bombs
Our support structure (artists, video, bands, tech ppl, etc.)
Our infrastructure (communication problems make this a disadvantage too)
Left over materials
Contact lists of supporters
We have established networks and have experience.
Geography
The precinct leader campaign has been very successful at raising our poll numbers. The problem is that we have so few precincts covered. If we did it right, we could cover all the precincts. That's how we can win. Well, at least get us to convention with a good chance.

We have had some very successful projects in the past that we should emulate. Right now, people are working on a more or less every state for themselves basis for the remaining states. My proposal is to bring back the regional coalitions concept, like we did in Iowa. Do one for each grouping of states on a particular date.

For each:

Have a mini-moneybomb to help fund it as well as chipins for projects.
Set up a Operation NH / Live Free or Die for housing and feeding supporters from the next states.
Coordinate regular Meetups (every weekend or longer) for supporters in the neighboring states to come and help canvas/lit drop/phone bank/GOTV.
Set up a state HQ if there is not one already there.
Arrange with neighboring states, the collection and transfer of surplus material.

Make this a deliberate process. Make sure every one of those and probably others are covered.


These are the groupings of states on the same date. I suggest we set up a project and form regional coalitions for each. The territories we'd have to look at, single states on a date we might want to group into a project with another date(s) :

02/09/2008GuamRepublican
02/09/2008KansasRepublican
02/09/2008LouisianaRepublican


02/12/2008DistrictofColumbiaRepublican
02/12/2008MarylandRepublican
02/12/2008VirginiaRepublican


02/19/2008WashingtonRepublican
02/19/2008WisconsinRepublican


02/23/2008American SamoaRepublican
02/23/2008Virgin IslandsRepublican
02/24/2008PuertoRicoRepublican


03/04/2008OhioRepublican
03/04/2008RhodeIslandRepublican
03/04/2008TexasRepublican
03/04/2008VermontRepublican


03/11/2008MississippiRepublican


04/22/2008PennsylvaniaRepublican


05/06/2008IndianaRepublican
05/06/2008NorthCarolinaRepublican


05/13/2008NebraskaRepublican


05/20/2008KentuckyRepublican
05/20/2008OregonRepublican


05/27/2008IdahoRepublican


06/03/2008New MexicoRepublican
06/03/2008South DakotaRepublican

Start working actively a month before each states primary or caucus if we have that much time. Start early. This campaign has track record of doing things at the last minute.

I believe you have to go back 2 weeks to get something on TV - that's handing them the media and money. Go back at least a week, ideally a month for fund raising, etc. You have to plan ahead. Work precincts for the month leading up to the election, if possible.


Yes, it's all ?obvious? and ?common sense?, but the difference is doing it.



Repost #2
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Phase 2 of Ron Paul's Political Strategy --Multi post reposted Flo Huffman, Pat Armstrong

Body: [I have been waiting for today to send this. I didn?t want to send it before today, because we needed to focus on this day. Now it is almost over, and we can move onto the next phase. This is one in a series of essays I will send. I recommend following the link to Gary North?s site. There is a lot of useful information there. And, he was Ron Paul?s congressional aid in the 70?s. Follow the links in the articles, and here is another one on the media blackout http://www.garynorth.... {edit}
Phase 2 of Ron Paul's Political Strategy

Gary North

January 9, 2007 ....

In Phase 1 of Ron Paul's political strategy, he achieved national name recognition among conservatives and libertarians, raised over $28 million, assembled a huge data base -- a postage-free data base -- and got network TV interviews all over YouTube, which are permanent. Nothing like this has ever been done in the history of libertarianism.

The mainstream media perceive none of this. All they perceive is the vote percentages in the primaries. This is a good thing. The blinder the mainstream media are to what is really going on here, the better.

My concern is that his recent recruits will be equally as short-sighted. So, I am writing this report. ....

THE MEDIA'S MEMORY HOLE
Ron Paul has been unofficially dropped down the mainstream media's memory hole.

The decision of Fox News to exclude him from the televised debate in New Hampshire was indicative of what was soon to come. In reporting the New Hampshire election results, the press did not list his name, even though he came close to beating Giuliani. It is clear that the mainstream media will no longer report on his campaign. He has become an also-ran even while he is still running.

The man-bites-dog aspect of his campaign -- the size of his on-line fund-raising -- is no longer media worthy. His numbers in the primaries are too low to pose a threat to the Establishment in 2008. He is yesterday's news.

He can and should maintain the official position that he is still running for President. That position will be non-news. Non-news is just what the doctor ordered.

When the media finally go away, he can get down to business.

What I am about to describe is a strategy that involves quietly moving below the media's radar. There is no reason for him to announce to the media, "My campaign has now moved to phase 2." I am sure he won't.

PHASE 2 ....

Every day that he stays in this race is another day of gathering e-mail addresses and (I hope) zip codes.

No less than 80% of his campaign spending should be devoted to running ads that produce e-mail addresses, zip codes, and donations for running more ads. Everything else is peripheral.

What I propose here is a strategy for long-term political victory. I am willing to post the basics of this strategy here because I am not posting all of it. It will therefore get no attention from the mainstream news media. This article is "hidden in plain site." It is sufficient that a hard core of his hard corps see it here and forward it to friends. My recommended strategy begins with word of mouse.

The mainstream media have a very short attention span. When you think "mainstream media" think "attention deficit disorder." The media simply cannot ADD things up. They cannot and will not connect the dots.

It is amazing what a dedicated group can accomplish at the bottom of the media's memory hole.

The two crucial questions are these: (1) How dedicated is Ron Paul's hard corps? (2) How future-oriented are they as individuals?


Out of cyberspace has come a total of $28 million in donations to Ron Paul's campaign. There will be more before the Republican national convention. If spent wisely -- and not all in 2008 -- this money can become the foundation of a new political movement.

The most important asset this movement possesses is a political leader with the following attributes:

A consistent worldview
A voting record to match this worldview
Widespread trust
A national audience
Three decades of real-world experience
A bully pulpit: a seat in Congress
A Congressional research staff
Several million dollars in his campaign kitty
E-mail lists (no postage or printing costs)
Supporters who are fed up with the political system
YouTube presence
New, low-cost, decentralized communications technologies
Technologically savvy supporters: "nerds with attitude"

Before his presidential campaign, Ron Paul was known to a small core of hard-money newsletter subscribers (old folks) and readers of LewRockwell.com. He was not nationally known. He is now. The media made this possible. So did YouTube. Those YouTube videos of his network guest appearances can become recruiting tools for a long-term program of recruiting and training.

This would not have been technologically possible in 2004.

Today, a new group of people know him, trust him, and will pay attention to what he recommends. It is an identifiable group: e-mail addresses and donation receipts. He can communicate with them very inexpensively. He can do it through his campaign organization. He does not need to involve his Congressional staff.

THE KEY TO POLITICAL SUCCESS

The key to political success is not an overnight grab for power at the top. The key is a 50-year program of replacement at the bottom. But, because of the American economy's prospects, we do not have 50 years. My guess is, we have a decade, if things go well -- less if they don't.

At the bottom of the political pyramid, people are becoming fed up. This would be my recommended political slogan: Fed up?. The Federal government are facing bankruptcy. The Federal Reserve System is going to have to fund the Federal government with fiat money. When Medicare goes bust and Social Security follows, the Federal Reserve will inflate. The dollar will decline another 95%, as it has since 1914, only faster.

When checks from ....Washington.... no longer buy much, there will be a monumental political transformation. This is the central premise of my recommended strategy.

The goal of Ron Paul's supporters should be to be in positions of influence locally, all over the country -- in 3,000+ counties, in every precinct. This should be done one precinct at a time. ....

This is stealth politics, and it is now a viable strategy for Ron Paul's hard corps. It was not a year ago.

If this political education program included an updated version of what was called the Kasten system of local electioneering, Ron Paul's troops could begin to run against and replace local political officials. In the mid-1970's, when Ron Paul first came to Congress, the Free Congress Foundation made Kasten-based training materials available. These materials need updating to include digital communications. They don't need much else.

If Ron Paul's hard corps is not in this for the long haul, then this strategy will fail. It deserves to fail. If people will not commit time as well as money, politics will remain business as usual.

Ludwig von Mises was correct: we are in a war of ideas. Ideas will win institutionally only after they have become the operational first principles of an influential minority of voters -- not just in leap year's four-year national presidential cycle -- but also in every nook and cranny of the political system.

The strategy of replacement must be educational in the broadest sense. It must be evangelical: the good political news. It must be extended by people who see themselves as lifetime missionaries. But we don't have a lifetime. We have maybe a decade. We are in a race against the falling dollar.

If Ron Paul will provide the leadership, he can spearhead a national movement whose goal is to roll back the state to its Constitutional limits -- its 1791 limits, meaning the Bill of Rights. All ten of them. This movement must be based on a systematic, well-thought-out campaign to roll back the civil government in every area of life in which it is operating unconstitutionally.

That should keep us busy.

TAFT'S FAILURE

The old Right's last nationally known politician was Senator Robert A. Taft. He lost the Republican nomination to Eisenhower in 1952. He died of cancer in July, 1953.

He preached limited government. In foreign policy, he was a non-interventionist. After he died, his views disappeared from American politics. He left no legacy -- no comprehensive body of writings, no hard core supporters, no mailing lists, no training materials. He left nothing.

The only other comparable figure to Taft in modern American politics was Howard Buffett. He was never nationally known. He left the House of Representatives in 1953, just when Eisenhower took over. His son Warren has rejected his father's libertarian views.

We have lived in a political wasteland ever since 1953. It is time for a change. This change has now begun. Will it be extended?

With Ron Paul, Taft's ideas have been revived. This took 55 years, plus the Internet.

If it takes another 55 years to reverse the statist juggernaut, so be it. But the prevailing debt level in the ....United States.... will not allow another 55 years of uninterrupted prosperity. The economic crisis will come sooner. So will the attempted solutions. As real estate guru Jack Miller says, "When the public calls for a man on a white horse, there will be a lot of guys out there with brown horses and whitewash." So, we will need people with high-pressure hoses.

A COMPREHENSIVE EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM

I am proposing a program in political education. It is like no other program in American history. It involves two aspects.

Homeschool Curriculum. He must begin with the next generation. How about a high school curriculum in civics edited by Dr. Paul? It would begin with the Articles of Confederation and take the story to the present. It would be structured in terms of this theme: the hijacking of ....America

Call it the Ron Paul's Freedom Curriculum.

Then there would be a U.S. history course presenting the same story, but not just in politics. How did the hijacking operate across the boards: in education, in art, in literature, in economics, in science, in the media? ....

Next, how about an economics course based on Austrian economics? ....

How about a course on money and banking, one that shows the dark side of fractional reserve banking and the Federal Reserve System? ....

I am in marketing. I assure you: the "branding" potential for a Ron Paul home school curriculum is huge. ....

This could all be put on a single DVD, which would include audio files and documents. Dr. Paul's FREE organization could get it into the mail for $5. Sell it for $200, and use the money to develop more materials and advertise the course. ....

He should oversee the creation of this curriculum. His motivation: the assumption that his grandchildren deserve a better curriculum than anything available today. Then he can sell it to the rest of his supporters. ....

Political Education. The educational program must also involve local political training. He should set up a website on how to become influential in a precinct. Use as a model the book by ex-Communist Douglas Hyde, Dedication and Leadership. Get there early. Stay late. Be helpful. Gain people's trust. Say little. Then, when some disaster is proposed, calmly give reasons why it should not be supported. ....

Get five people to do this together in a precinct, each choosing only one disaster to undermine. Raise doubts. Maybe add an amendment that guts it. But, election by election, move the precinct toward limited government. ....

The strategy is to move the rank and file toward liberty. The tactic is not to be obstructionist. That gets people nowhere. The goal is to raise doubts at key points, calling into question the messianic state, program by program, budget by budget. ....

Focus on local issues, where local influence can make a difference. Ignore any national issue that the party has made a primary goal. Concentrate on those local issues about which the opposition doesn't care too much and will not expend much time, energy, and money to implement. ....
Get experience. Get support. Get respect. Then get elected, or get some future Ron Paul elected. ....

The Primary Goal. The primary goal here is not to slice away at the salami of the American empire. The primary goal is to get positioned locally with numerous officials so as to present a united front against the Federal government when it begins to falter. When the Feds' money buys nothing, the hard corps needs to be influential locally to block all attempts of the Feds to impose controls over the local economy. This has been known historically as the doctrine of interposition. ....

Has this ever worked in the past? It worked during the Stamp Act crisis, 1765-70. It worked during the years leading up to the revolution, 1770-75. ....

NO NEW TAXES, NO NEW BONDS ....

People must be trained to monitor all tax hikes and bond issues and mobilize against them. ....

If municipalities cannot float new bonds issues, local politicians will have to face the voters after a tax hike. Those who do this can then be mobilized against at the next election. ....

The public is always ready to hear a bad word against taxes and bonds. It is just that so few bad words are ever heard. ....

Local activists must be trained in stealth politics to monitor the local government's stealth spending programs. ....

How about a home school course on local government? Who could oppose that? What would students learn to do? Monitor the city council. Monitor the committees. Post websites that openly discuss what is going on. Let in some digital sunlight! ....

How would the city council oppose this? What politician wants to attack some well-scrubbed teenager with space on Blogspot or MySpace? "Every politician who opposes civics education for our youth, please stand up!" ....

Local politicians are skilled at hiding things from the local media, which are bought and paid for by local advertisers. They are not prepared to deal with the Web. ....

As fewer people read the local newspaper, the ability of local politicians to spin or control the flow of information shrinks. At the same time, e-mail grows, RSS feeds grow, and digital communications expand. ....

Ron Paul is uniquely in a position to work with home school parents to distribute digital blowtorches to be used against local politicians who are skating on thin ice. ....

How about training how to do mass mailings of Vote No postcards just before a bond issue vote is held? Mail the cards by first class stamped mail. This way, there is no warning. If necessary, mail them from outside the county. Let them hit on the Saturday before the vote. The cards direct people to a web site that goes into detail about how much money the bonds will cost property owners. ....

Can you imagine the havoc such unanticipated mailings could do to local politicians with big plans to expand the government? ....

I even have some domain names set aside if Dr. Paul want to take ownership of them. ....

UNDER THE RADAR ....

Precinct by precinct, town by town, county by county, a decentralized political movement could begin to undermine the legitimacy the existing political structure. It can do so politely, helpfully, and sympathetically. ....

The central issue is legitimacy. The supreme goal is to undermine the legitimacy enjoyed by the prevailing central state. This task is doable. We have the U.S. Treasury and the Federal Reserve System working for us: a debt disaster to be funded by fiat money. ....

When the dollar dies, political legitimacy dies with it. This is the central premise of my recommended strategy. ....

Hardly anyone wants to do this kind of invisible work: laying the foundations for a decentralized program of comprehensive political replacement. I call it the dogcatcher strategy. It is based on this familiar slogan: "I wouldn't vote for him if he ran for dogcatcher." So, run against him. Start at the bottom. Then move up. Don't make a premature grab for power. ....

As Wee Willie Keeler said of a baseball player's wisest hitting strategy, "Hit 'em where they ain't." ....

Most people want to start higher than dogcatcher. They want applause. They want credit. They want recognition. And they want all this soon. There are very few exceptions. The main exceptions are the handful of families that have dominated the politics of ....America.... for over two centuries. This is why they still rule. ....

In a C-Span interview with Gore Vidal in 2000, Vidal made a fascinating comment. He said that the real rulers of ....America.... over the past 250 years -- the first families -- do not care if the media expose scandals among the "hired help" (politicians), but they do not allow embarrassing reports of their families and lives. ....

Reversing the statist juggernaut would take a long time if it were not for Federal deficits, the level of government debt, and the Federal Reserve System. The steady build-up of debt has taken three generations, beginning in World War I. Debt has spread to every nook and cranny of the international economy. At some point, the bills will come due. The ability of the Establishment to delay this event has amazed a lot of us. But the reality of debt that compounds far faster than economic growth is inescapable: default. ....

When the day of default arrives, we can get out from under the radar. ....

CONCLUSION ....

The top of the political pyramid is controlled by the Establishment. This means the Establishment will become the donkey into which a ten thousand pins can be stuck when the economy implodes. ....

But who will do the sticking? ....

Ron Paul has millions of dollars to spend. The way to spend it is on ads that draw people to a website that gets them to sign up. The web page should also ask them for their zip code. ....

If he can assemble a series of e-mail lists tied to zip codes, he can turn this nation around, assuming that his followers are serious enough to commit time and money to a program that will seem frustrating for years. ....

This is not kamikaze politics. It is stealth politics. It is possible only through steady work, but work with a specific goal: to place principled people in positions of local authority in preparation for the day the dollar dies. ....

Some group will exercise such local authority. Better us than them -- the fundamental principle of all politics. ....

The American Establishment -- political, economic, media, and educational -- has bet the farm on a program of control from the top. Technology is moving the other way, toward control from the bottom. Newspapers are dying, except for the Wall Street Journal. The TV networks are dying: lower market share every year. Printed political magazines are dying. Subscription publications are dying. Reporters are being laid off -- permanently. Columnists are graying, and their pensions are in doubt. ....

Isn't the Web wonderful? The Establishment's outlets of official opinion are like the Titanic. They have hit the digital iceberg and are sinking. ....

Matt Drudge has more grass roots political influence than the New York Times, and everyone in the game of politics knows it. This fact galls liberals, but there is not a thing they can do about it. The Web has changed the rules of the political game -- and most other games as well. ....

Ron Paul's philosophy of civil government is consistent with control from the bottom. This is his great advantage. I hope he presses this advantage. ....

Note: I served as Congressman Paul's research assistant during his first term in Congress, 1976....

nayjevin
02-06-2008, 10:23 AM
I think I've given up on this country. The system is completely broke beyond repair.

I had to get to this point before I could ever build myself back up to the supporter I am today. That was years ago.

rtil
02-06-2008, 10:28 AM
Half the reason we're fighting is because we know the system is broken. It's up to all of us to carry Ron Paul's message throughout this country. And remember - it starts locally.

Voluntaryist
02-06-2008, 10:32 AM
Is it worth it?

Well it sure isnt worth giving up, if thats what your asking.

Fight for whats right. Whether you use a soapbox, ballot box, or ammo box, dont stop fighting for a better tomorrow.

Whats next? Congressional runs? Local board runs? More spreading of the ideas of liberty and peace?

My question is, why STOP now? :cool:

amistybleu
02-06-2008, 10:34 AM
What do they have to lose by voting for Paul? If someone thinks McCain is a done deal, than what does it hurt to vote their conscience?

Not to mention, "In May of 1860, the votes of 233 delegates were required to win the Republican nomination. Abraham Lincoln arrived at that convention starting only with the support of the 22 delegates from Illinois. He went on to win the nomination."...

Keep repeating that, that is deep.

The power of the unknown.;)

amistybleu
02-06-2008, 10:35 AM
Well it sure isnt worth giving up, if thats what your asking.

Fight for whats right. Whether you use a soapbox, ballot box, or ammo box, dont stop fighting for a better tomorrow.

Whats next? Congressional runs? Local board runs? More spreading of the ideas of liberty and peace?

My question is, why STOP now? :cool:

Never surrender for what is right.

Bubba
02-06-2008, 11:30 AM
We can fight our a**es off, but as long as there is Voter Fraud, it's all for nothing.

Wake up, Sheeple. :rolleyes:

HEAR HEAR!!!! :( Bump

Sad but true. Hello? Anybody home? Florida 2000 anyone?

Stallheim
02-06-2008, 12:30 PM
#11 in this thread is a long read but exceptionally good. Will this be the web site that connects us? Some will leave when the election is over, many may leave before we get to that point. But for those of us who want to stay connected, no matter what happens, and those of us who want to begin work on the next stage of the grassroots revolution, where do we meet? Going deep under radar but not feeling alone, perhaps 50 or 100 or 150 thousand strong: this is very exciting stuff. Green Mountain Boyz style

ArrestPoliticians
02-06-2008, 12:37 PM
We didn't try hard enough in the big early states. And we didn't do so well in states we thought we'd win.


They couldve done much more in NH, that is true. They left that state up to the grassroots completely. But in Iowa, Ron brought in 350 students, including myself.

raiha
02-06-2008, 12:37 PM
no one is willing to put him in front of the camera anymore in his current situation.

No one ever was.

Fox McCloud
02-06-2008, 12:39 PM
I've lost nearly all faith in this country and have given up on it too--I've not given up on Ron Paul, and I'll continue to push him, tell about him, and instruct people on the things going on in this country...it doesn't matter if he wins or loses, it's about standing for what is right....I have my doubts about a brokered convention (though I hope for one), and I have my doubts that we'd do well in a brokered convention (still, I hope)....that doesn't mean I've given up, and won't vote or continue to campaign for him...it just means that I don't think he'll get the nomination or the Presidency.

The OP has an excellent point--when we've only gotten 5-10% in most states, and 10-20% in like..3-5 States, the media isn't going to give us any attention...and convincing someone to vote for Ron Paul now? It's like convincing a hard-core Republican/Democrat to vote for an Independent---not very many will budge--some that may like him will avoid him because "well, he only has 5%...and 11 delegates".

Have we lost? Not yet...we've only lost once the general election has passed and Ron isn't the President.

I'd say our biggest possible loss, however, would be that Ron doesn't get the Presidency and he loses his seat in Congress....if both of those things happen, then I will truly say this country's physical end (not the "original intend" type...I mean blood in the streets, cities burning kind of end) will be in the very near future...if we lose him, then all of Congress will be on "their" side, the Presidency will be on "their" side, as will most of the judicial system.

like I said, I haven't given up on Ron--I never will..I'll always fight and always campaign (until the end of November)...I've just given up hope on America and the vast majority of its people.

RonPaulFTFW
02-06-2008, 12:48 PM
I haven't given up on him.

I'm trying to see reason and help him win congress.

Not dream about a presidential convention that won't happen.

The sooner we're honest with ourselves the better we'll be as a movement.

sidcrowe
02-06-2008, 12:49 PM
I think ... I honestly believe now that the only way this country will change is with armed revolution.

The apathy is too far reaching and the media too strong.

Hmmm...well, as long as somebody else said it, I guess I can quote it, without getting arrested.

I haven't been here for awhile; slow computer...I just check in quick at dailypaul for the latest. After all, I am Canadian, and can't really do too much...can't donate, can't campaign for Paul :(

It's like...Bush stole the election, then you had another, and all you had to choose from was Bush and his secret society brother Kerry. Then you voted for the Democrats taking control of the Senate from Republicans, and the Dems just delivered more war.

Now, all you're gonna have to choose from are representatives from BOTH of those ruined, lying parties. If it wasn't Ron Paul, then what did it matter, anyway? Edwards? Giuliani? Any different from Romney, or Obama, McCain or Clinton?

Both parties will bring you more war, and more spending, and more debt. Both parties will continue to ruin your country on purpose. What will the mainstream corporate media do? It will ignore the suffering of most poor, working people. It will pay attention to Superbowls and celebrities instead, like it always had.

I'll continue to write comments on youtube videos and hope for something at the convention, but I feel you guys will have a McCain/Clinton choice, and what choice is that? How much more punishment can you people take before you are turned into a third-world banana republic?

If Ron Paul would've been given his fair share of coverage, or even HALF that of "front runner" Giuliani, Ron Paul would be the Republican candidate, and he would have absolutely fucking SMOKED the Democrat candidate, and he would be President of the United States of America. But no...

Both parties poisoned by the CFR and pushing for the NWO, and with the media cheering it on, and ignoring and making fun of anybody else who disagrees.

More killing, more spending and taxing, more debt and poverty.

Nobody to vote for, and nobody reporting the truth.

I can't say anything more, but I'd like to.

Can you imagine what I'd say?

RonPaulFTFW
02-06-2008, 12:50 PM
They couldve done much more in NH, that is true. They left that state up to the grassroots completely. But in Iowa, Ron brought in 350 students, including myself.

It wasn't enough.

We should have fired every gun there to get second or third and then spread our message.

then we'd have had more people to donate.

DahuiHeeNalu
02-06-2008, 12:54 PM
Ron Paul isn't a Senator He is a Congressman from Texas.

sidcrowe
02-06-2008, 01:00 PM
We should have fired every gun there to get second or third and then spread our message; then we'd have had more people to donate.

That's what I thought, too.

If Ron Paul has any money left, I hope he blows it all on a national, half-hour talk, and really lets loose.

The00viper
02-06-2008, 01:01 PM
Your statement is technically true, my friend, and I wish you the best.

Let's put this in football terms (as a Giants fan I've been using these analogies all week :D):

We're mid-way through the fourth quarter, and the score is 70-3. The game is not over, as with your assertion, but there is not enough time to win this one. We need to switch to soccer.

Actually, we're at halftime in the locker room yelling at one another trying to figure out why we're losing 35 to 3.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WO4tIrjBDkk

CurtisLow
02-06-2008, 01:32 PM
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3250/sheeptvcr6.jpg

sidcrowe
02-06-2008, 06:14 PM
Ditto.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

:mad:

RonPaulFTFW
02-06-2008, 06:23 PM
You know, just calling "sheeple" every time somebody interjects some reality isn't any better than being a "sheeple".

Think of something new to call people please.

qh4dotcom
02-06-2008, 07:48 PM
Hillary will win.
McCain will win.

We can choose between hypocrisy, cowardice, and war. (Hilary)
Or we can choose war, greed, and stupidity. (McCain)

The corporations have won, and our country must hang its head in shame to the world that we can't make educated decisions.

I love Ron Paul. However, we must face facts. He's just not getting enough delegates, votes, and attention. We can't keep raising money telling people we'll win when we aren't winning much of anything. A few second places are great, (even though the second places we did get didn't win us much) but how can you convince people to vote for Ron Paul now in states that haven't voted?

"Hi, this little known senator from Texas will tell you the truth and save our country, but he only gets 3 percent of the vote, and has less than 20 delegates. Please vote for him in a primary that nobody will pay much attention to?"


I think our process doesn't allow for a Rope A Dope strategy anymore. You have to have Media momentum to win. It's a popularity contest to get dumb people to vote on a name and some images. We all laugh at Rudy, but we did the same thing he did. We didn't try hard enough in the big early states. And we didn't do so well in states we thought we'd win.

The media owns us all and their interests are those of the politicians who can snow blind us into mute acceptance.

And yes, Maybe if we hang in and build for another 8 years we can see a Ron Paul Like candidate do well.... But who knows if we'll have a country then? Or how much stronger the strangle hold of media will be by then? Do you think they will continue to allow us to use the internet after what they've seen happen with Ron Paul? Moves on net neutrality will increase 10 fold.

I think ... I honestly believe now that the only way this country will change is with armed revolution.

The apathy is too far reaching and the media too strong.

I'd love to hear somebody give me some real reasons to keep going. I love the hearty talk of sticking it out, and flexing our muscles, and learning, and trying harder........But I think we all need some hard, sober facts.

Ron also has a seat in congress to run for. If he's away trying to win a handful of delegates he could maybe lose his voice there.

Is it worth it?

It's not necessarily that people reject Ron Paul's message...it's that most people don't even know who he is much less his message. ..but yes, the MSM has influenced many people to vote for other candidates.

After reading hundreds of Ron Paul comments on blogs, Digg, Youtube, etc. I have noticed that most comments are positive about Ron Paul or neutral like the "He can't win" comment...few people are criticizing him or have the attitude that they will always vote against him.

According to this poll Ron Paul started his presidential bid rather late...which hasn't given him enough time for people to hear about him and rise in the polls compared to the other candidates.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/charts/2008_election_primaries/republican_primaries_chart.html

Note that the other candidates who have numbers higher than him have been around longer.

ArrestPoliticians
02-06-2008, 08:15 PM
It wasn't enough.

We should have fired every gun there to get second or third and then spread our message.

then we'd have had more people to donate.

we had third locked until someone erased our phonebanking database(no joke). RP mailed NAU stuff to half the state.

sidcrowe
02-07-2008, 04:14 PM
Yeah, what can we do except call people "sheeple?"

The CFR-owned media treated Ron Paul like dogshit from the start.

It was like a big buffet, and Ron Paul represented all the people who worked for their food, and Hillary and the rest represent the ones who steal it (NWO, bankers, etc).

Everyone else was stuffing their fat faces, and when Ron Paul walked up to get a share he worked for, he was slapped in the face, punched from behind, and kicked in the nuts. After he fell to the ground, the others got together to spit on him and laugh.

That's what happened, friends. That's what they did to our man. I don't blame you guys anymore. I'm not angry with Americans. You guys are under the same Elite thumb we are, but the battle is yours, not ours. I was gonna raise money and give it to the couple Americans I know (DON'T WORRY I DIDN'T DO IT), but then I was told that was illegal.

It's just a bunch of Elite CFR NWO motherfuckers and their propaganda machine, the mainstream media, which simply ignored Ron Paul and played up the others so he could not win.

That Elite owns us all. They create wars, waste our money, plunge us into debt, steal our wealth, and force us to work, work, work, work, work to pay off that banker debt and interest.

All we can do is work, work, work or try to come up with a scam to rip off our neighbours.

We work and drink, watch the big game, and work, and drink. If we don't, we live in a cardboard box.

WE ARE SLAVES.

Think you can stop the war, the spending, the killing? Think you have a fair chance? Try, and see what happens. We had ONE MAN who was up for it, and look what happened. Ron Paul never had a chance. We cannot vote for a man to change all that crap, because he was fucked from the start.

A third party? Nope. Media won't cover it. Forget it.

We had our fun. We challenged the Elite, and they laughed at us.

Go back to work, slaves...the bankers want their interest paid, and there isn't a goddamn thing you can do about it.

Oh, wait, doesn't the Constitution say... ?

Never mind

Elijah
02-07-2008, 04:17 PM
Hillary will win.
McCain will win.

We can choose between hypocrisy, cowardice, and war. (Hilary)
Or we can choose war, greed, and stupidity. (McCain)

The corporations have won, and our country must hang its head in shame to the world that we can't make educated decisions.

I love Ron Paul. However, we must face facts. He's just not getting enough delegates, votes, and attention. We can't keep raising money telling people we'll win when we aren't winning much of anything. A few second places are great, (even though the second places we did get didn't win us much) but how can you convince people to vote for Ron Paul now in states that haven't voted?

"Hi, this little known senator from Texas will tell you the truth and save our country, but he only gets 3 percent of the vote, and has less than 20 delegates. Please vote for him in a primary that nobody will pay much attention to?"


I think our process doesn't allow for a Rope A Dope strategy anymore. You have to have Media momentum to win. It's a popularity contest to get dumb people to vote on a name and some images. We all laugh at Rudy, but we did the same thing he did. We didn't try hard enough in the big early states. And we didn't do so well in states we thought we'd win.

The media owns us all and their interests are those of the politicians who can snow blind us into mute acceptance.

And yes, Maybe if we hang in and build for another 8 years we can see a Ron Paul Like candidate do well.... But who knows if we'll have a country then? Or how much stronger the strangle hold of media will be by then? Do you think they will continue to allow us to use the internet after what they've seen happen with Ron Paul? Moves on net neutrality will increase 10 fold.

I think ... I honestly believe now that the only way this country will change is with armed revolution.

The apathy is too far reaching and the media too strong.

I'd love to hear somebody give me some real reasons to keep going. I love the hearty talk of sticking it out, and flexing our muscles, and learning, and trying harder........But I think we all need some hard, sober facts.

Ron also has a seat in congress to run for. If he's away trying to win a handful of delegates he could maybe lose his voice there.

Is it worth it?

Your signature says ...
Why I Support Ron Paul.
NEVER GIVE UP ON RON PAUL!!

Your thread title says...
I think I've given up on this country. The system is completely broke beyond repair.

Be a patriot and defend this country against it's government. It's gonna take some time. This is just the beginning...

sidcrowe
02-08-2008, 04:12 AM
If I was an American, I would keep donating and telling people, going door to door, and dressing up like V to draw attention.

I will still keep adding comments to youtube vids, and finding out all I can about Ron Paul, and I will hope for a miracle too AND will support him finishing the run or also running as a third-party candidate...

...but without a miracle, I don't know how he can win this "brokered convention" thing.

Like the other guy said FIRST, and I'm only QUOTING him...ah, I better not quote him...

Maybe you can try to get your military bigwigs to go for a coup. I don't know what else can stop more of this insanity. How many times can you say, "Take back this country," before there's no country left to take back? How many more years until the Chinese and the bankers call in the loans and destroy America?