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View Full Version : Giving credit to Huckabee - what could we learn?




ronpaul4pres
02-06-2008, 01:31 AM
Huckabee had very little money - way less than Ron Paul. Except after Iowa, he was pretty much blacked out by the media, too. He had little air time at the last debate, even. But, look at what he was able to pull off!

Obviously, his message to the people carried him. And, his use of some of Ron Paul's messages helped, too. But, has anyone here with some credentials done a serious analysis of how he was able to do so much with so little? Does it really come down to one issue: religion?

derdy
02-06-2008, 01:33 AM
Huckabee had very little money - way less than Ron Paul. Except after Iowa, he was pretty much blacked out by the media, too. He had little air time at the last debate, even. But, look at what he was able to pull off!

Obviously, his message to the people carried him. And, his use of some of Ron Paul's messages helped, too. But, has anyone here with some credentials done a serious analysis of how he was able to do so much with so little? Does it really come down to one issue: religion?


You almost had it. It's religion and pro-war no matter how many of our boys it takes.

tomveil
02-06-2008, 01:34 AM
Preach more and want to kill brown people?

Kalash
02-06-2008, 01:34 AM
Huckabee had very little money - way less than Ron Paul. Except after Iowa, he was pretty much blacked out by the media, too. He had little air time at the last debate, even. But, look at what he was able to pull off!

Obviously, his message to the people carried him. And, his use of some of Ron Paul's messages helped, too. But, has anyone here with some credentials done a serious analysis of how he was able to do so much with so little? Does it really come down to one issue: religion?

It's not just religion.

It's the public speaking thing.
He has charisma.

And it helps that he's speaking from the common philosophy - of collectivism.

His positions make sense to people.


Unlike Ron Paul's positions which go against everything they've been taught all their lives...

smartguy911
02-06-2008, 01:36 AM
he abused the hell out of religion, strongly supports war and jacked some of Dr. Paul's ideas.

MrZach
02-06-2008, 01:36 AM
Huckabee had very little money - way less than Ron Paul. Except after Iowa, he was pretty much blacked out by the media, too. He had little air time at the last debate, even. But, look at what he was able to pull off!

Obviously, his message to the people carried him. And, his use of some of Ron Paul's messages helped, too. But, has anyone here with some credentials done a serious analysis of how he was able to do so much with so little? Does it really come down to one issue: religion?

Huckabee's campaign employed some VERY shrewd tactics that involved religion - mainly purchasing email lists and secretly campaigning through religious organizations that most of your Evangelicals look to on how to vote - we're talking people who barely watch the news at all, and that is a LOT of people.

The MSM blackout doesn't hurt Ron Paul as much as we think. There are a LOT of people who have no clue about the election - but they read their weekly newsletters or magazines from all these small groups, especially Christian organizations.

Huckabee is a VERY shrewd guy. He knows how to work it, and he worked it through the back door of all those little publications and email lists and got right into people's homes directly through the sources they trusted - which were not news media outlets.

That is what to be learned from the Huckabee campaign. The man knew exactly what he was doing. It is working very well.

Paul10
02-06-2008, 01:38 AM
...

gaazn
02-06-2008, 01:39 AM
he uses religion like a sword, first taking out brownback for being catholic. now he is focusing on taking out romney for being mormon. is he america's ahmadinejad?

texasbelle
02-06-2008, 01:39 AM
Unlike Ron Paul's positions which go against everything they've been taught all their lives...

I agree. I think Ron Paul's positions have to "click" in your head and then it all makes sense! Intelligence means a lot too! ;) I have never heard of blowback until Ron Paul, but it makes so much sense. People gravitate to Huck because he is humorous and says catchy things. RP tells the truth and doesnt sugar coat anything! Most people want the warm fuzzies. :rolleyes:

hyoomen
02-06-2008, 01:39 AM
As a secularist I can't imagine it came down entirely to religion, though America has become infamous among the world community for sort of backsliding into an overwhelmingly irrational religiosity over the past decade or so. Granted, if you look at the states in which Huckabee did well, it does seem as though religious views similar to his own reign supreme.

As for the actual reason he has received so much support, the only logical conclusion I can come up with is that he is an alternate to McCain (of whom conservatives are very hesitant) and Romney (whom nobody seems to entirely trust).

I know this, though: if Ron Paul could speak as well as Huckabee, there'd be one less reason for people to dismiss his message of freedom.

ronpaul4pres
02-06-2008, 01:43 AM
Huckabee's campaign employed some VERY shrewd tactics that involved religion - mainly purchasing email lists and secretly campaigning through religious organizations that most of your Evangelicals look to on how to vote - we're talking people who barely watch the news at all, and that is a LOT of people.

The MSM blackout doesn't hurt Ron Paul as much as we think. There are a LOT of people who have no clue about the election - but they read their weekly newsletters or magazines from all these small groups, especially Christian organizations.

Huckabee is a VERY shrewd guy. He knows how to work it, and he worked it through the back door of all those little publications and email lists and got right into people's homes directly through the sources they trusted - which were not news media outlets.

That is what to be learned from the Huckabee campaign. The man knew exactly what he was doing. It is working very well.

Thank you.

Could Ron Paul have played up his extremely strong religious background just as well or better than Huckabee?

Do you think that would have offended the non-religious and atheists in our movement?

bcreps85
02-06-2008, 01:44 AM
Huckabee had very little money - way less than Ron Paul. Except after Iowa, he was pretty much blacked out by the media, too. He had little air time at the last debate, even. But, look at what he was able to pull off!

Obviously, his message to the people carried him. And, his use of some of Ron Paul's messages helped, too. But, has anyone here with some credentials done a serious analysis of how he was able to do so much with so little? Does it really come down to one issue: religion?

Well, there isn't much to learn from Huckabee, except maybe being more charismatic when speaking, which has little to do with Huck's successes.

Huck's successes are almost entirely because of MSM attention and religious people who like to force their views on everyone else.

HollyforRP
02-06-2008, 01:45 AM
he abused the hell out of religion, strongly supports war and jacked some of Dr. Paul's ideas.

Yes he did jack Ron Paul's ideas. He also did get more media attention and it seems that the media wanted to pass off Huckabee as Ron Paul to confuse people and it did work.

knappz
02-06-2008, 01:46 AM
Well shit, lets just put a gold star on forehead.

bcreps85
02-06-2008, 01:46 AM
Do you think that would have offended the non-religious and atheists in our movement?

I am not an atheist, but I am agnostic with many atheist friends so I will stab at this one. If he talked about forcing his religion on others like Huckabee does, then we would have been turned off to Ron Paul. If he played up his religion while making it a point that he wasn't going to force it on us or change the constitution to conform with the Bible, then we would look past it.

We don't mind religious people -- just so long as they don't give us crap about our views or try to force theirs on us...

MrZach
02-06-2008, 01:47 AM
Thank you.

Could Ron Paul have played up his extremely strong religious background just as well or better than Huckabee?

Do you think that would have offended the non-religious and atheists in our movement?

It isn't as much as playing up the religious angle as it is using the religious angle to get your foot in the door of the numerous religious publications. You declare your positions from there, but if you sell yourself to World magazine as "Hey, I'm one of you guys - let me talk about how my Christian values have influenced my politics," then you have a massive audience right there which probably isn't looking anywhere else for guidance. Then you do this with those major groups and you've got it.

That's how Huckabee garnered the home school vote even though a look at his actual record in Arkansas shows how horribly inhospitable he has been to home schoolers.

buffalokid777
02-06-2008, 01:48 AM
Huckabee had very little money - way less than Ron Paul. Except after Iowa, he was pretty much blacked out by the media, too.

Put your hands up and step away from the bong.

I don't know what reality you have been living in, but the one i exist in has seen nothing but a major MSM push for the Huckster from the Value voters debate right up until a week before the last debate which the Huckster stated he didn't come to play refferee.

MrZach
02-06-2008, 01:49 AM
Well, there isn't much to learn from Huckabee, except maybe being more charismatic when speaking, which has little to do with Huck's successes.

Huck's successes are almost entirely because of MSM attention and religious people who like to force their views on everyone else.

True - Huckabee is a VERY good speaker. That carries a lot of currency these days - people don't really listen as much to what you're saying as much as they listen to how you say it. It is sad, but you really need to be the "complete package" to compete anymore...

BreakYourChains
02-06-2008, 01:51 AM
Huckabee was not blacked out.

First, he stole Ron Paul's platform, and he is a polished speaker and just said it in a way the people could understand. Huck's platform now is Ron Paul's platform, minus the war part and the fair tax. Huck even tried to steal the birthright citizenship point, but that was not well received, so he dropped it.

Second, he still got media coverage. His name was still in all of the polls, he was still listed on all of the websites everywhere, and he still was on front page of most Sunday papers before this vote, in an election guide. Ron Paul was not in the papers.

Third, some stupid bi_ch girl did an awful video, mocking Huckabee and Christianity, etc. This was shown over and over yesterday on CNN, and I think this probably angered the Christians to go and vote for him. Perhaps Huck had it made? It was deplorable, and I am ashamed that this young woman did this. I was even angered by it, and I cannot stand this phony Huckster. It was entirely tasteless. You cannot imagine what effect this had on Christians, and how quickly the word would get out. I watched it last night and it was 7400 views. Now, it is 33, 207. Word of mouth travels quickly on this kind of thing. Perhaps nothing came from the video.

Fourth, Numbers USA had a comparison chart they did, and it shows Huck as excellent on almost all of their questions about illegal immigration. Also, I just noticed on their site, they were actually telling their people to vote certain ways in certain states, so they could beat McCain, even though they were for Ron Paul as well! I looked at their site late last night I think, so this could have done some damage today as well, since illegal immigration IS a big issue.

But, Huck was not blackballed by the media. He got less than equal time, but he got time and he was not dropped off of the face of the earth. The only thing we can learn from him is how to make jokes and tell stories to get votes.

armand61685
02-06-2008, 01:56 AM
Huckabee had very little money - way less than Ron Paul. Except after Iowa, he was pretty much blacked out by the media, too. He had little air time at the last debate, even. But, look at what he was able to pull off!

Obviously, his message to the people carried him. And, his use of some of Ron Paul's messages helped, too. But, has anyone here with some credentials done a serious analysis of how he was able to do so much with so little? Does it really come down to one issue: religion?

It's because people are ignorant and dumb...

Nash
02-06-2008, 01:56 AM
1) Charisma
2) Pragmatism

m72mc
02-06-2008, 01:58 AM
Huckabee had very little money - way less than Ron Paul. Except after Iowa, he was pretty much blacked out by the media, too. He had little air time at the last debate, even. But, look at what he was able to pull off!

Obviously, his message to the people carried him. And, his use of some of Ron Paul's messages helped, too. But, has anyone here with some credentials done a serious analysis of how he was able to do so much with so little? Does it really come down to one issue: religion?

It´s called Free Press.

aravoth
02-06-2008, 02:00 AM
Huckabee had very little money - way less than Ron Paul. Except after Iowa, he was pretty much blacked out by the media, too. He had little air time at the last debate, even. But, look at what he was able to pull off!

Obviously, his message to the people carried him. And, his use of some of Ron Paul's messages helped, too. But, has anyone here with some credentials done a serious analysis of how he was able to do so much with so little? Does it really come down to one issue: religion?

Lesson learned? Don't ever give this fucker a hint of help at any coneverntion again, fuck him. That's what we could learn.

ronpaulblogsdotcom
02-06-2008, 02:01 AM
Yes Religion and that the MSM is not calling him a crackpot, libertarian, dope smoking, brothel running, gold bug.

The night before Super Tuesday the coverage was gushing for him. CNN had him as the main picture for the politics main page. And the lead story. And the MTV debate story which was all about him, none about Paul,clinton or Obama in that MTV story. And the polls for Republicans omitted Paul but showed Huck. That was 4 things about Huck on the front page and none for Paul. None.

He is being propped up as the alternate to McRomney.

Enzo
02-06-2008, 02:07 AM
Lesson learned? Don't ever give this fucker a hint of help at any coneverntion again, fuck him. That's what we could learn.

Exactly!

What is all this "giving credit to Huckabee" crap?

Fuck that guy! He is scum.

ronpaul4pres
02-06-2008, 02:22 AM
1) Charisma
2) Pragmatism

Interesting. So, you don't think it was the message so much as it was the presentation?

MrZach
02-06-2008, 02:25 AM
TOTALLY... It is sad, but Huckabee is so smoothe he could take a crap, wrap it in tin foil, stick fish-hooks in and and sell it as earrings to almost every Evangelical out there... *wink*

Nash
02-06-2008, 02:32 AM
Interesting. So, you don't think it was the message so much as it was the presentation?

Ron Paul was selling the message from an ideological point of view. He should have been selling it from a pragmatic point of view.

Ideologues run campaigns to educate. Pragmatists run to win.

ronpaul4pres
02-06-2008, 02:50 AM
Ron Paul was selling the message from an ideological point of view. He should have been selling it from a pragmatic point of view.

Ideologues run campaigns to educate. Pragmatists run to win.

I'm almost afraid to say that makes a lot of sense. Based upon certain statements in all of his stump speeches, I think he sold the message from exactly the point of view he wished to sell it.

We have a self-directed movement based on the Constitution instead of a President trying to force us to follow it. Maybe that was the (Libertarian) point after all?

WRellim
02-06-2008, 03:02 AM
Huckabee had very little money - way less than Ron Paul. Except after Iowa, he was pretty much blacked out by the media, too. He had little air time at the last debate, even. But, look at what he was able to pull off!

Obviously, his message to the people carried him. And, his use of some of Ron Paul's messages helped, too. But, has anyone here with some credentials done a serious analysis of how he was able to do so much with so little? Does it really come down to one issue: religion?

NO. That is only a partial (but valid and important) component of his "run."


What most people are NOT aware of is that Huckabee began running well before Dr. Paul, and he began by doing the "rounds" of all the talk-shows, radio-call-in shows, etc that he could... I know because I recall hearing an HOUR LONG interview with him on January 17 of 2007 (listen RealAudio from archives here (http://clipcast.wpr.org:8080/ramgen/wpr/bme/bme070117m.rm)) -- last year.

Aside: For those who claim the media demonstrated "hate" or "bias" towards Dr. Paul when they asked "Why are you running when you can't possibly win -- no one knows who you are?" -- well, I got news for you. As the above show demonstrates, Huck was treated the same way and asked essentially the same question, and it was asked in a somewhat condescending manner as well (though the host, Ben Mehrens is probably the LEAST biased I have ever listen to).

The point here was NOT that *that* many people were listening or could have even cared LESS about Presidential candidates at that point in time (as the host states several times... with "Why start running so EARLY?" etc.)

No Huckabee was NOT REALLY trying to win a lot of votes at that point in time -- what he was ACTUALLY DOING was good, solid PR work in the form of "buttering up" the media -- in this case, the talk show hosts. He was being a GOOD guest, was punctual, friendly, answered questions nicely, etc. etc. -- In other words he was winning OVER the media as his "friend" -- doing them a favor by giving something TO them, and making them think about him as "a nice man."

He did this routine for SEVERAL MONTHS, making the "rounds" of as many talk-shows as possible (with the publication of the "book" being the "hook" to get the interviews and stimulate the dialog, etc.) AND, keep in mind that as most of these talk-shows are done "remotely" over the phone with the guest sitting comfortably at home (or in a local studio near their home) -- the cost is virtually non-existent.

This type of "advance work" is done ALL THE TIME -- by movie stars in advance of their movies being released, by book authors in advance of (or following) their books publications, etc.

Since at certain times of the year these shows are virtually STARVING for content, they are often quite open to booking such guests.


So what that all means is that Huckabee started a full-on publicity and MEDIA-relations junket VERY early in the campaign. That way, when the early straw polls and things happened, virtually ALL of the radio and TV people were already familiar with his name and WHO he was, and even possibly remembered a few details of information about him and/or the "issues" that he discussed, etc.

Which means that while the general PUBLIC still had ZERO name recognition for Mike Huckabee -- just about everyone in BROADCAST MEDIA were VERY familiar with him. And if he showed a special affinity to say, "Christian Radio Talk Shows" -- who are normally even MORE starved for material and guests -- can you blame him?


Now a year ago, Dr. Ron Paul was NOT doing a media-junket. 6 months ago, he was NOT doing a media-junket (even though he had just published a VERY topical "book"). Why? Well, in the main because Ron Paul has a "built in buyer audience" for his book, and really doesn't try to do much to "sell" the things -- he has no publicist or sales manager trying to generate interest in the book sales or anything of the kind. In fact, he's pretty complacent and confident that his book sales will be pretty similar to the sales of his previous books, and his many fans and supporters are already aware that he published a book, etc.

Problem is, one reason ALL presidential candidates have books published is in order to DO that book-interview-circuit; and they do THAT in order to kozy up to the press and get them "familiar" with you.


So, when Iowa Straw Poll time came around, Huckabee was being talked about on Iowa Radio and Iowa Christian Radio -- not simply because he was a pastor -- but because he was a pastor who the Radio Hosts already "knew," who they had already "interviewed" and whose book they had possibly even already skimmed or read (with, quite conveniently, his name and picture & brief bio on the back cover, etc.)

PR my friends, good solid PR -- better than $10M in the bank to a relatively unknown Presidential candidate -- just takes a little brains, time, and effort.

SIDE NOTE: Believe it or not, the Ben Mehrens show DID do a one hour interview of Dr. Paul as well -- listen RealAudio here (http://clipcast.wpr.org:8080/ramgen/wpr/bme/bme070815l.rm) or download MP3 here (http://www.wpr.org/wcast/download1.cfm?mp3file=bme070815l.mp3&iNoteID=69847) -- on August 15, 2007. But -- and this is important -- the interview was at the instigation of the SHOW and it's listeners requests, NOT because the campaign was actively pursuing such interviews.


BTW for those of you NOT fortunate enough to live in Wisconsin, IMHO you are sadly missing a real treat in Ben Mehrens' show on Wisconsin Public Radio (http://www.wpr.org/merens/). He's a fairly unique creature in media -- intelligent, knowledgeable, well read, and pretty fair in his interview style and format. Fortunately for everyone, they archive all the shows online.

WRellim
02-06-2008, 03:25 AM
I'm almost afraid to say that makes a lot of sense. Based upon certain statements in all of his stump speeches, I think he sold the message from exactly the point of view he wished to sell it.

We have a self-directed movement based on the Constitution instead of a President trying to force us to follow it. Maybe that was the (Libertarian) point after all?

There's a LOT of validity to that statement. Actually, I would go even further and say that he isn't trying to SELL anyone anything at all.

He is trying to teach -- or perhaps even LESS egotistically, to share what he has learned (and if anyone of equivalent learning gets to spend time with him, I would venture he would like to discuss and debate the MERITS of ideas around various issues.)

Truth be told, I think he rather clearly illustrates that he is someone who really doesn't WANT to be President, which just further demonstrates his intelligence (only a fool would really WANT that job.)

All the more reason he is the only one that is running who is therefore actually qualified for the job. (We haven't had someone like THAT since George Washington!)

Ron LOL
02-06-2008, 03:36 AM
As distasteful as I find just about everything even remotely related to Mike Huckabee, he's a far better speaker than Ron Paul. RP always manages to end up sounding like "Crazy, Cranky Grandpa Paul" even when he's making the most academically correct of points.

RP also has difficulty staying "on point" in interviews. I say "on point" in quotes because we know that when RP goes off on what seems like a tangent, it's ultimately related to what he was originally asked about...but we only know this having already studied his positions. It's silly for Ron Paul to (seemingly) assume that people will actually go out of their way to follow up and study something he's discussed.

Another big issue is that Ron Paul tends to talk at length about what's broken, how badly it's broken and how we're all doomed instead of offering solutions.

Huckabee brings nothing appealing to the table, but he just about bleeds charisma when he isn't totally overdoing his folksy BS.

Edit: actually, you know what, I think people could have warmed up to Ron Paul on all the issues above...I did. Ultimately I think it comes down to Ron Paul having had either TOTALLY INCOMPETENT media relations folks, or just none at all...difficult to choose which is worse. But all the talk of canceling interviews last minute and folks not being able to get Ron Paul on their shows is just total, total garbage. By all accounts, Ron Paul could have been all over the MSM and chose (or his campaign staff did, anyway) not to. That, I think, more than anything, is what did us in. Not that I'm calling it quits.

Ron LOL
02-06-2008, 03:39 AM
There's a LOT of validity to that statement. Actually, I would go even further and say that he isn't trying to SELL anyone anything at all.

He is trying to teach -- or perhaps even LESS egotistically, to share what he has learned (and if anyone of equivalent learning gets to spend time with him, I would venture he would like to discuss and debate the MERITS of ideas around various issues.)

Truth be told, I think he rather clearly illustrates that he is someone who really doesn't WANT to be President, which just further demonstrates his intelligence (only a fool would really WANT that job.)

All the more reason he is the only one that is running who is therefore actually qualified for the job. (We haven't had someone like THAT since George Washington!)

Unless I'm just totally sleepy and misreading things...this is one of the most insightful posts I've ever read at ronpaulforums. Thanks.

westmich4paul
02-06-2008, 04:51 AM
I have said this from the begining, the biggest thing that Ron has compared to Mike is the plain facts on the issues. The biggest advantage Mike has on Ron is his speaking ability and a way to get his message out to the most dumbest of the herd. The camapaign should have gotten Ron a speech coach and I am not saying Ron needed to go in with a script but he definately needs to realize that most sheep look completely traumatized when he speaks because they have no clue. Example Ron's monetary policy instaed of telling people how the devaluization of the dollar is causing us economic turmoil he would be better telling people. Isn't everyone here sick of paying over 3.oo a gallon for gas? 3.50 for a gallon of milk? Do you know why you pay this rediculous price? it has nothing to do with supply and demand. it is because the Federal reserve is making your dollar worthless and they are doing it little by little so you all do not storm the gates of washington.

Thomas Paine
02-06-2008, 05:04 AM
Huckabee had very little money - way less than Ron Paul. Except after Iowa, he was pretty much blacked out by the media, too. He had little air time at the last debate, even. But, look at what he was able to pull off!

Obviously, his message to the people carried him. And, his use of some of Ron Paul's messages helped, too. But, has anyone here with some credentials done a serious analysis of how he was able to do so much with so little? Does it really come down to one issue: religion?

Huckabee didn't waste money on a blimp to nowhere.

CanadiansforRP
02-06-2008, 05:19 AM
Thing thing is that Ron Paul supporters care and know about the issues but they are a vocal minority versus McCain supporters, Romney supporters and Huckabee supporters who are 99% sheeple who don't even know about their positions but are voting for them based on personality, religion, who is perceived to be more conservative, who is more charismatic, etc. They follow the TV, their pastors, or talk show hosts.

What I love about Ron Paul (and what I think most people love about him) is that he doesn't comprise his belief in the constitution, in freedom, in personal liberty, and that he doesn't pander to voters or lie to get votes. However that is also his biggest weakness because by not pandering to the majority of voters who are sheep and by not comprising he doesn't have a chance at taking away Evangelicals from Huckabee or economic conservatives from Romney, or moderates from McCain. That is the facts.

Also Ron Paul is passionate about his beliefs which is awesome but when he speaks he gets over excited and talks to fast. He needs to come off as more personable during interviews and debates but still maintain the passion and conviction.

The Evangelicals won't like Paul's position on freedom to use drugs or be a prostitute. They also won't like that although he is pro life he wouldn't change the constitution to ban it.

hawks4ronpaul
02-06-2008, 05:38 AM
Huckabee:

Polished speaker
Funny (Obama gets laughs too; angry McCain is the mystery)
Conveys positivity (despite certain incidents)
Adapts message to what is working (stealing RP ideas)
Earned grassroots through church networks
Earned media (good PR habits)
Free media (I never heard, "unelectable fringe extremist candidate Mike Huckabee")

Note that most of those factors are in RP's control.

RP has said several times that he does not try to network, such as "Roe" contacting him rather than the other way around.

RP's staff should be initiating and maintaining these people/media relations even if RP does not.

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/

LBT
02-06-2008, 06:07 AM
The average voter can only understand 3 of the candidates. These 3 have been given the tick of approval by the channels they get their information.

From this, Huckabee is simply more likeable than McCain and Romney. Hence the vote drift toward him, despite his not receiving as much media attention.

His likeability is a mixture of his humor, dumbed down rhetoric, confident and clear speaking manner. I doubt the 75% who were not his religious diehards, who voted for him, could describe what policies he has that differentiated him to the degree that it effected their votes. I expect they just liked him more.

When / if more conservatives think he can win the nomination, I expect many more will flood to his camp.

InLoveWithRon
02-06-2008, 06:51 AM
NO. That is only a partial (but valid and important) component of his "run."


What most people are NOT aware of is that Huckabee began running well before Dr. Paul, and he began by doing the "rounds" of all the talk-shows, radio-call-in shows, etc that he could... I know because I recall hearing an HOUR LONG interview with him on January 17 of 2007 (listen RealAudio from archives here (http://clipcast.wpr.org:8080/ramgen/wpr/bme/bme070117m.rm)) -- last year.

Aside: For those who claim the media demonstrated "hate" or "bias" towards Dr. Paul when they asked "Why are you running when you can't possibly win -- no one knows who you are?" -- well, I got news for you. As the above show demonstrates, Huck was treated the same way and asked essentially the same question, and it was asked in a somewhat condescending manner as well (though the host, Ben Mehrens is probably the LEAST biased I have ever listen to).

The point here was NOT that *that* many people were listening or could have even cared LESS about Presidential candidates at that point in time (as the host states several times... with "Why start running so EARLY?" etc.)

No Huckabee was NOT REALLY trying to win a lot of votes at that point in time -- what he was ACTUALLY DOING was good, solid PR work in the form of "buttering up" the media -- in this case, the talk show hosts. He was being a GOOD guest, was punctual, friendly, answered questions nicely, etc. etc. -- In other words he was winning OVER the media as his "friend" -- doing them a favor by giving something TO them, and making them think about him as "a nice man."

He did this routine for SEVERAL MONTHS, making the "rounds" of as many talk-shows as possible (with the publication of the "book" being the "hook" to get the interviews and stimulate the dialog, etc.) AND, keep in mind that as most of these talk-shows are done "remotely" over the phone with the guest sitting comfortably at home (or in a local studio near their home) -- the cost is virtually non-existent.

This type of "advance work" is done ALL THE TIME -- by movie stars in advance of their movies being released, by book authors in advance of (or following) their books publications, etc.

Since at certain times of the year these shows are virtually STARVING for content, they are often quite open to booking such guests.


So what that all means is that Huckabee started a full-on publicity and MEDIA-relations junket VERY early in the campaign. That way, when the early straw polls and things happened, virtually ALL of the radio and TV people were already familiar with his name and WHO he was, and even possibly remembered a few details of information about him and/or the "issues" that he discussed, etc.

Which means that while the general PUBLIC still had ZERO name recognition for Mike Huckabee -- just about everyone in BROADCAST MEDIA were VERY familiar with him. And if he showed a special affinity to say, "Christian Radio Talk Shows" -- who are normally even MORE starved for material and guests -- can you blame him?


Now a year ago, Dr. Ron Paul was NOT doing a media-junket. 6 months ago, he was NOT doing a media-junket (even though he had just published a VERY topical "book"). Why? Well, in the main because Ron Paul has a "built in buyer audience" for his book, and really doesn't try to do much to "sell" the things -- he has no publicist or sales manager trying to generate interest in the book sales or anything of the kind. In fact, he's pretty complacent and confident that his book sales will be pretty similar to the sales of his previous books, and his many fans and supporters are already aware that he published a book, etc.

Problem is, one reason ALL presidential candidates have books published is in order to DO that book-interview-circuit; and they do THAT in order to kozy up to the press and get them "familiar" with you.


So, when Iowa Straw Poll time came around, Huckabee was being talked about on Iowa Radio and Iowa Christian Radio -- not simply because he was a pastor -- but because he was a pastor who the Radio Hosts already "knew," who they had already "interviewed" and whose book they had possibly even already skimmed or read (with, quite conveniently, his name and picture & brief bio on the back cover, etc.)

PR my friends, good solid PR -- better than $10M in the bank to a relatively unknown Presidential candidate -- just takes a little brains, time, and effort.

SIDE NOTE: Believe it or not, the Ben Mehrens show DID do a one hour interview of Dr. Paul as well -- listen RealAudio here (http://clipcast.wpr.org:8080/ramgen/wpr/bme/bme070815l.rm) or download MP3 here (http://www.wpr.org/wcast/download1.cfm?mp3file=bme070815l.mp3&iNoteID=69847) -- on August 15, 2007. But -- and this is important -- the interview was at the instigation of the SHOW and it's listeners requests, NOT because the campaign was actively pursuing such interviews.


BTW for those of you NOT fortunate enough to live in Wisconsin, IMHO you are sadly missing a real treat in Ben Mehrens' show on Wisconsin Public Radio (http://www.wpr.org/merens/). He's a fairly unique creature in media -- intelligent, knowledgeable, well read, and pretty fair in his interview style and format. Fortunately for everyone, they archive all the shows online.

The timeline argument is a good one. good post.

IRO-bot
02-06-2008, 06:57 AM
You know, I think it was his "Charisma". He stole alot of his ideas from Ron Paul. He is a very polished speaker, although he blinks like a crack addict. It's sad but I think people just go for that stuff more.

It does give me hope though. If a fool like Huckabee, who has no real morals, is a corrupt politician can win, then I have hope. Why?

Have any of you heard Rand Paul speak? Check out his YouTube in Minnesota. He is amazing. That is why I have hope!!!

No offense guys, but I will be the first to admit that Ron's public speaking isn't that great.

Myerz
02-06-2008, 07:03 AM
Can anyone say CFR?

abbgt1
02-06-2008, 07:08 AM
In Georgia, his support of the Fair Tax made a big difference. He doesn't win without it. I'm a Fair Tax supporter if we HAVE TO collect that revenue for a period of time while shrinking Fed spending. He got the people in GA who normally vote Libertarian with the Fair Tax support (Neal Boortz gave him his endoresement which helped him carry the state......Neal finally had a legit libertarian to support in Ron but Neal is toomuch of a Hawk & he went with the pro-war / Fair Tax candidate)

Now the irony is that Hucks proposals amount to a larger Federal Gov't, he just has a better way to collect the revenue. I like RP's idea better for a flat tax at 0%.

gjdavis60
02-06-2008, 07:12 AM
Huckabee is a good public speaker, but mainly he exploited an existing market (evangelicals) with a familiar product.

Ron had to create his base out of disparate factions of dissatisfied voters from other groups. A much tougher job. I don't think different tactics would have accelerated our movement significantly. We can "Monday morning quarterback" until we die, but unless our criticism is intended improve future outcomes, it is not useful, imo.

This movement has unlimited potential.

FreeTraveler
02-06-2008, 07:13 AM
What I learned from the HICK.

It's easy to win. Wrap yourself in a flag, carry a cross, and sell out to the CFR.

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross." ~ Sinclair Lewis

robert4rp08
02-06-2008, 07:14 AM
He's personable.

DGambler
02-06-2008, 07:52 AM
What can we learn from Huckabee? Well, let's have Ron call himself a preacher and go to churches as a guest "preacher" (we promise we won't campaign at the altar).

True story, Huckabee did this in Georgia... I had several people tell me during the exit poll... I was planning on voting for XXXX, but Huckabee came to my church on Sunday and preached and I just had to vote for him now.

Mitt Romneys sideburns
02-06-2008, 08:05 AM
MEDIA

You guys seriously say he had no media coverage? They talked about him EVERY FUCKING DAY
. . .

"McCain, blah blah, Rudy 9/11, blah blah Mormon, blah blah, and someone like a Huckabee could be a possible dark horse"

::Next day::

"9iu11iani, Mccain, Romney has 5 wives. . . And you never know, one of the second tier guys like Mike Huckabee could move up."

::Next day::

"Rudy Reagan, John Reagan, Mitt Reagan, you also have some of the other lesser know candidates like Mike Huckabee."

:: Next Day::

"Rudy is a cross dresser, McCain is old and broke, Mitt is a Mormon. . . Lets not forget there is also Mike Huckabee."

::Huckabee moves to the front::

"Wow, where did that come from?"

FTL
02-06-2008, 08:14 AM
Huck uses jokes to smooth away negative subjects. He can play guitar and make you smile even though your kids are being killed and mamed in a needless war.

He wants to make the parents think that their sons and daughters are fighting an honoarble war. People don't want to hear that all that killing was wrong.

It's just more feel good lies, just like preachers feed the sheep at churches to make people feel good about their wrong doings.

constituent
02-06-2008, 08:15 AM
it just proves that the media can make and/or break a candidacy..

that people will vote how they're told.

but i think we knew this all along.... or,well, put it this way...

who didnt?

constituent
02-06-2008, 08:17 AM
MEDIA

You guys seriously say he had no media coverage? They talked about him EVERY FUCKING DAY
. . .

"McCain, blah blah, Rudy 9/11, blah blah Mormon, blah blah, and someone like a Huckabee could be a possible dark horse"

::Next day::

"9iu11iani, Mccain, Romney has 5 wives. . . And you never know, one of the second tier guys like Mike Huckabee could move up."

::Next day::

"Rudy Reagan, John Reagan, Mitt Reagan, you also have some of the other lesser know candidates like Mike Huckabee."

:: Next Day::

"Rudy is a cross dresser, McCain is old and broke, Mitt is a Mormon. . . Lets not forget there is also Mike Huckabee."

::Huckabee moves to the front::

"Wow, where did that come from?"

and meet the press last week, "the final four"

and the press all weekend and monday/tuesday, "a five candidate race"
"down to five candidates" blah blah blah.

therealjjj77
02-06-2008, 08:17 AM
Huckabee had very little money - way less than Ron Paul. Except after Iowa, he was pretty much blacked out by the media, too. He had little air time at the last debate, even. But, look at what he was able to pull off!

Obviously, his message to the people carried him. And, his use of some of Ron Paul's messages helped, too. But, has anyone here with some credentials done a serious analysis of how he was able to do so much with so little? Does it really come down to one issue: religion?

His meeting with Richard N. Haass back in September, the President of CFR. From that subsequent meeting, Richard N. Haass became his foreign policy adviser. And then Huckabee got all the media attention he wanted at no cost.

I don't think Ron Paul should compromise like that.

ronpaul4pres
02-06-2008, 07:53 PM
There's a LOT of validity to that statement. Actually, I would go even further and say that he isn't trying to SELL anyone anything at all.

He is trying to teach -- or perhaps even LESS egotistically, to share what he has learned (and if anyone of equivalent learning gets to spend time with him, I would venture he would like to discuss and debate the MERITS of ideas around various issues.)

Truth be told, I think he rather clearly illustrates that he is someone who really doesn't WANT to be President, which just further demonstrates his intelligence (only a fool would really WANT that job.)

All the more reason he is the only one that is running who is therefore actually qualified for the job. (We haven't had someone like THAT since George Washington!)

Thank you.

I don't think, though, that one should run for the Presidency if one doesn't actually want to be President. That is a recipe for disaster. If Ron Paul didn't want to be President, well, we just lived the "disaster."

dougr583
02-06-2008, 07:58 PM
This is a joke, right? Learn from Huckabee? You have to be kidding.

Huckabee is the poster-boy for all that is evil in politics. Well, one of the many poster-boys.

MooCowzRock
02-06-2008, 08:12 PM
We could learn that selling out the principles that made America great gets you support.

pepperpete1
02-06-2008, 08:32 PM
His meeting with Richard N. Haass back in September, the President of CFR. From that subsequent meeting, Richard N. Haass became his foreign policy adviser. And then Huckabee got all the media attention he wanted at no cost.

I don't think Ron Paul should compromise like that.

Do you know for a fact that his tv ads were for free? Not that anyone is paying any attention to the fact that all the broadcasters and licensees are to keep political files on all the appearances of the political candidates and allow ALL the candidates equal time.

They also are not allowed to offer air time to one candidate at one price and the others at another.

This can be found in the FCC rules and regs.

Huckabee is clever enough to pick up on those issues that Ron Paul received applause from the audiences at the debates and incorporated those subjects into his platform, NO IRS, etc., his web site is a replica of RP's.

I think that now that John Edwards is no longer in the running we should "steal" his Lee Iacocca theme, may be a good idea to get an endorsement from the man himself.

wfd40
02-06-2008, 08:36 PM
Huckabee's campaign employed some VERY shrewd tactics that involved religion - mainly purchasing email lists and secretly campaigning through religious organizations that most of your Evangelicals look to on how to vote - we're talking people who barely watch the news at all, and that is a LOT of people.

The MSM blackout doesn't hurt Ron Paul as much as we think. There are a LOT of people who have no clue about the election - but they read their weekly newsletters or magazines from all these small groups, especially Christian organizations.

Huckabee is a VERY shrewd guy. He knows how to work it, and he worked it through the back door of all those little publications and email lists and got right into people's homes directly through the sources they trusted - which were not news media outlets.

That is what to be learned from the Huckabee campaign. The man knew exactly what he was doing. It is working very well.

This can all be condensed down to 2 words...
Ed Rollins


Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee scored a major victory Thursday when he secured the support of prominent GOP insider Ed Rollins, who will serve as national chairman of Huckabee’s campaign.

Rollins, who has struggled with recent campaigns, was known as the campaign manager behind Ronald Reagan’s landslide reelection in 1984.

In recent years, Rollins has been associated with K.T. McFarland, but he continues to be regarded as a stalwart of Republican consultants.

The fact that he would throw his support behind Huckabee lends the former governor some Republican institutional credibility, especially as he appears to be surging in the early states.

We passed this guy up???? Laughing the F out loud

thuja
02-06-2008, 08:39 PM
one thing that would not be learned from him and his family is care and compassion for animals. i do not wish to see his name again.

Thomas Paine
02-06-2008, 08:41 PM
The only thing we can learn from Mike Huckabee is that if you deliberately lie, cheat, steal ideas and deceive the voters, then you will win some GOP primaries/caucuses.

Thomas Paine
02-06-2008, 08:43 PM
This can all be condensed down to 2 words...
Ed Rollins



We passed this guy up???? Laughing the F out loud

Ed Rollins has been long overrated. Bonzo the chimpanzee could have successfully managed Ronald Reagan's re-election campaign in 1984 given Reagan's popularity and Walter Mondale's boring personality.

WRellim
02-06-2008, 08:43 PM
In Georgia, his support of the Fair Tax made a big difference. He doesn't win without it. I'm a Fair Tax supporter if we HAVE TO collect that revenue for a period of time while shrinking Fed spending. He got the people in GA who normally vote Libertarian with the Fair Tax support (Neal Boortz gave him his endoresement which helped him carry the state......Neal finally had a legit libertarian to support in Ron but Neal is toomuch of a Hawk & he went with the pro-war / Fair Tax candidate)

Now the irony is that Hucks proposals amount to a larger Federal Gov't, he just has a better way to collect the revenue. I like RP's idea better for a flat tax at 0%.

You've all been DUPED then.

The so-called FAIR TAX is really nothing more than very nicely setup government TRAP. The MAIN people it is aimed at are the increasing number of "self-employed."


Consider Hillary's proposal for health care and the need to "garnish" the wages of people who are NOT insured.

Well, one of the MAIN groups of people who are "uninsured" (other than illegal immigrants) are the self-employed. Now how is she going to "garnish" a portion of wages from their paychecks... they don't HAVE paychecks.


BUT... under the FAIR TAX system... they, like everyone else would be paying that 30% (or higher) tax on everything they buy. AND, of course, getting that nice little "prebate" check in the mail every month (or actually electronically deposited into a government registered checking account!)

And when the Government decides that you've been a BAD LITTLE BOY because you didn't buy (and register your purchase of) an appropriate health care insurance policy (or car insurance, or pass your latest cholesteral blood test, or whatever the heck ELSE they want to check)... then they simply "suspend" the payment of your PREBATE. And if you've done something REALLY egregiously wrong... well they'll just have the remaining balance in that registered account "locked" (temporarily, of course) until you correct it in whatever fashion your overlords deem is appropriate.


Its so utterly and deviously simple it is ridiculous.

But YOU'VE already fallen for it, haven't you! :eek:


Understand, with the "FAIR Tax" and the "PREBATE CHECKS" -- they will have EVERYONE by the short hairs. "Don't be BAD or we'll take away your monthly check!"

Don't believe it? Just find someone who has had their CURRENT government check (for military pension, Soc Sec, Disability or whatever) subject to a "temporary suspension" -- how long would YOU last if you lost 20% to 30% of your income???

They would all but the most stouthearted and frugal among us "groveling" within 3-6 months, guaranteed.

And since it can all be done with an "administrative suspension" there will be NO NEED for any of that fuss about due-process or trial-by-jury or anything like that. Just a little checkmark next to your name in a database.

BYE BYE NOW!

wfd40
02-06-2008, 08:44 PM
Lesson learned? Don't ever give this fucker a hint of help at any coneverntion again, fuck him. That's what we could learn.

imo, our giving him West Virginia early in the morning gave the huckaboo a TON of Free coverage all afternoon while polls all over the country were still open... and so brought out a sea of fence sitters in a bunch of states that now wanted to vote for the guy without a chance who all of a sudden seemed to have one..

In other words, we should have taken the 2 delegates from Romney and given him all of the momentum..

762x54r
02-06-2008, 08:52 PM
It's not just religion.

It's the public speaking thing.
He has charisma.

And it helps that he's speaking from the common philosophy - of collectivism.

His positions make sense to people.


Unlike Ron Paul's positions which go against everything they've been taught all their lives...

insightful.

itshappening
02-06-2008, 09:02 PM
imo, our giving him West Virginia early in the morning gave the huckaboo a TON of Free coverage all afternoon while polls all over the country were still open... and so brought out a sea of fence sitters in a bunch of states that now wanted to vote for the guy without a chance who all of a sudden seemed to have one..

In other words, we should have taken the 2 delegates from Romney and given him all of the momentum..

we effectively finished off Romney with that move, so it was smart. keep it all split up is the idea.... Romney could have swept the place otherwise

ronpaul4pres
02-06-2008, 09:03 PM
It's not just religion.

It's the public speaking thing.
He has charisma.

And it helps that he's speaking from the common philosophy - of collectivism.

His positions make sense to people.


Unlike Ron Paul's positions which go against everything they've been taught all their lives...

insightful.

I agree. Ron Paul's ideas although the best and correct ideas were too different for many to swallow all at once.

So, as we push our Revolution forward, how do we break up our "radical" message into, shall I say, bite-size pieces that are more easy to swallow by more people?

nightlight
02-06-2008, 09:08 PM
Huckabee had very little money - way less than Ron Paul. Except after Iowa, he was pretty much blacked out by the media, too. He had little air time at the last debate, even. But, look at what he was able to pull off!

Obviously, his message to the people carried him. And, his use of some of Ron Paul's messages helped, too. But, has anyone here with some credentials done a serious analysis of how he was able to do so much with so little? Does it really come down to one issue: religion?

Two words: Ed Rollins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Rollins).

http://www.nndb.com/people/648/000056480/ed-rollins.jpg

Tina
02-06-2008, 09:11 PM
Huckabee had very little money - way less than Ron Paul. Except after Iowa, he was pretty much blacked out by the media, too. He had little air time at the last debate, even. But, look at what he was able to pull off!

Obviously, his message to the people carried him. And, his use of some of Ron Paul's messages helped, too. But, has anyone here with some credentials done a serious analysis of how he was able to do so much with so little? Does it really come down to one issue: religion?

You learn how the establishment controls the media and how the media then pulls the publics strings. 'Just look at Mcnuts quick rise right after Hucks quick rise. Both manufactured by the media showing them to be winners. That is all to be learned.

rg123
02-06-2008, 09:19 PM
dug this one out of my archives it is the face time the candidtes recieved in 2007
up to August naturally since then Rons went down remeber November he was the
supposed frontrunner and the cross commercial and Huck went viral as soon as
the CFR got involved mostly through MSNBC as they have many CFR members
amongst them.

McCain & Huckabee were 1st & 2nd

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/08/candidate_face_time_on_news_networks_/

ronpaul4pres
02-06-2008, 09:27 PM
dug this one out of my archives it is the face time the candidtes recieved in 2007
up to August naturally since then Rons went down remeber November he was the
supposed frontrunner and the cross commercial and Huck went viral as soon as
the CFR got involved mostly through MSNBC as they have many CFR members
amongst them.

McCain & Huckabee were 1st & 2nd

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/08/candidate_face_time_on_news_networks_/

Awesome! Thank you for sharing that.

I just found another one: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/chart-tracking-face-time/