Stop Calling the Iowa GOP!

[mport1]

Message from Jeff Frazee

"Everyone who is calling the Iowa GOP over these diebold machines is doing a tremendous disservice to the Ron Paul campaign. Stop it. You are destroying relationships and turning the Iowa GOP against Ron Paul.

The campaign is taking every reasonable precaution we can to ensure a fair vote, and we ask that you leave it up to the campaign to speak with the Iowa GOP. They know Ron Paul supporters are not satisfied with the voting process, and any further phone calls only causes more problems for the campaign.

Focus your attention on turning out to vote for Ron Paul in Ames on Saturday as we are trying to do. Stop creating more problems than necessary.

Please spread this message far and wide within the Ron Paul community.

Thanks,
Jeff Frazee
National Youth Coordinator - Ron Paul 2008"

[spacebetween]

Bump

[Ron Paul Fan]

I didn't think people were actually calling the Iowa GOP. Basically they're getting worried over a problem that we don't even know will actually occur yet and they should stop bothering the Iowa GOP. If Ron Paul doesn't do as well as people think he will I fear they'll blame it on the machines and not his lack of time spent in Iowa. Please stop pestering these people about a problem at the Iowa Straw poll 3 days before the straw poll even begins!

[paulaholic]

Looks like Ron's non-interventionist policy is ideal in this situation as well ;) .

Leave it to people like Fooliani to pester enemies. Let's take the high road.

[PatriotOne]

The Iowa GOP goes out of their way to use corruptable Diebold machines even though they are perfectly aware of the issues with them. Then they want to extort money from Ron Paul because we demand accountabilty to make sure the machines were not manipulated. And now we are suppose to worry about upsetting the Iowa GOP because people are upset at their screw you, we don't care if we are using corrupt voting machines attitude? Unbelievable!


Message from Jeff Frazee

"Everyone who is calling the Iowa GOP over these diebold machines is doing a tremendous disservice to the Ron Paul campaign. Stop it. You are destroying relationships and turning the Iowa GOP against Ron Paul.

The campaign is taking every reasonable precaution we can to ensure a fair vote, and we ask that you leave it up to the campaign to speak with the Iowa GOP. They know Ron Paul supporters are not satisfied with the voting process, and any further phone calls only causes more problems for the campaign.

Focus your attention on turning out to vote for Ron Paul in Ames on Saturday as we are trying to do. Stop creating more problems than necessary.

Please spread this message far and wide within the Ron Paul community.

Thanks,
Jeff Frazee
National Youth Coordinator - Ron Paul 2008"

[JosephTheLibertarian]

lol what can they do about it

[spacebetween]

lol what can they do about it

Let's not stir the hornet's nest for one thing.

[Santana28]

to be honest... i SERIOUSLY doubt there will be any tinkering with the Iowa Straw Poll vote, even with the capabilities to do so in place.

This is the first true test for the candidates. There are still what, 10 candidates? Half of them are going to drop out afterwards anyways. The supposed "Top Teir" candidates are either skipping altogether, or downplaying their expectations - and they will all be watching VERY closely the spread of the results. In fact, it would only do them a disservice to tamper with the first REAL vote tabulation - they need that data in order to figure out exactly HOW to tamper with the votes in the future, if thats indeed what they are planning to do.

Plus, its probably much more different to alter the vote records among so many candidates without at least one irregularity coming up. Once the field is wittled down, it will be much more feasible.

I agree with Jeff - we don't need to be screaming at people for something that hasn't even occurred yet. Its far better to let the campaign threaten recourse then to play our hand too early.

My thoughts.

[Ron Paul Fan]

Let's not stir the hornet's nest for one thing.

Yep, we should be striving for a forum policy of non-intervention like the Constitution tells us. People are anticipating there will be a problem at the event before the event has started. Does that make any sense? And why would people calling in even attach themselves to Ron Paul? If you're going to call in, don't even mention his name! They're doing him a tremendous disservice and I'm embarassed to be associated with it and I'm sure Ron Paul is too.

[ghemminger]

They - The Establishment - Are totally unprepared for what is happening on the internet....they don't realize that a phone number if published -

Has access by 1000's of people instantaneously - there is no way in Hell they can contain people getting angry on such a large scale...;)

[PatriotOne]

People are anticipating there will be a problem at the event before the event has started. Does that make any sense?

Actually it does make sense to suspect foul play. Why else would the Iowa GOP go out of thier way to use machines known to be corruptable in the first place? Did they not have any other options? Why would they not want to ensure the legitamacy and confidence of their straw poll by using something far less controversial? Why are they refusing to do a double check at the very least?

IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE as to why they would be using these machines in the first place unless there is something fishy going on and their refusal to address it is even more suspicious.

This "let's wait and see" attitude is really disheartening. Moaning and groaning AFTERWARDS sounds like sore loser stuff. Making a statement BEFORE suspected (and rightfully so) manipulation is much stronger.

[trispear]

They are the ones who demanded $184K for a fair vote, a service any combination of campaign volunteers could have rendered for free.

In 2004, there were 40,000 votes. It sounds like they want about $4 a vote to count it properly.

Maybe it should be the Iowa GOP that should quit whining and do their job properly.

[Lord Xar]

make sure the meetups get this message too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kenc9]

Actually it does make sense to suspect foul play. Why else would the Iowa GOP go out of thier way to use machines known to be corruptable in the first place? Did they not have any other options? Why would they not want to ensure the legitamacy and confidence of their straw poll by using something far less controversial? Why are they refusing to do a double check at the very least?

IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE as to why they would be using these machines in the first place unless there is something fishy going on and their refusal to address it is even more suspicious.

This "let's wait and see" attitude is really disheartening. Moaning and groaning AFTERWARDS sounds like sore loser stuff. Making a statement BEFORE suspected (and rightfully so) manipulation is much stronger.

This is what worries many that are aware of these guys,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold_Election_Systems

"""Jeff Dean, Senior Vice-President and Senior Programmer at Global Election Systems (GES), the company purchased by Diebold in 2002 which became Diebold Election Systems, was convicted of 23 counts of felony theft for planting back doors in software he created for ATMs using, according to court documents, a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of two years[7]. In addition to Dean, GES employed a number of other convicted felons in senior positions, including a fraudulent securities trader and a drug trafficker[8].

In December 2005, Diebold's CEO Wally O'Dell left the company following reports that the company was facing securities fraud litigation surrounding charges of insider trading[9]."""

[Slugg]

Bump

[freelance]

We have no way of knowing what the campaign is doing to cultivate state parties and press. Why don't we concentrate on winner the heart and minds of voters?

[kickzman]

Hopefully after the straw poll, the candidates list will slim down. I am hoping atleast 2 guys call a quits, namely; Hunter and Tommy Thompson.

[LibertyEagle]

What I don't understand is why anyone has felt the necessity to tell the Iowa GOP WHO you are supporting, when calling in about the Diebold machines. What does it have to do with the point of the call, anyway?

[AOXOMOXOA]

This event is, of course, nothing but a fund raiser for the Iowa Republican Party. Let's not forget that.

Do I want to see Dr. Paul win? You bet I do.

Do I think these machines are unreliable? Yes.

As the lead poll worker in my precinct I deal with awful voting machines that I don't like as best as I can because those are the cards I've been dealt. But when someone comes in and starts giving me a hard time about the machines, even though I probably dislike the machines even more than the complainer does, I find myself getting upset with the complainer. So let's take the advice of the national campaign and turn our efforts to getting Dr. Paul's Iowa supporters to participate in the straw poll. We can't forget that we will need the cooperation of the Iowa GOP to eventually get Dr. Paul into the White House.

[LibertyEagle]

No joke. It makes no sense whatsoever to ALIENATE THE ENTIRE IOWA GOP over this, for a straw poll.

[disinter]

They are the ones who demanded $184K for a fair vote, a service any combination of campaign volunteers could have rendered for free.

In 2004, there were 40,000 votes. It sounds like they want about $4 a vote to count it properly.

Maybe it should be the Iowa GOP that should quit whining and do their job properly.

Bingo!

[stevedasbach]

Actually it does make sense to suspect foul play. <snip>
IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE as to why they would be using these machines in the first place unless there is something fishy going on and their refusal to address it is even more suspicious.

Or perhaps, these are the machines that they use in Ames for regular elections, and they are just using what is readily available for the straw poll.

As to why they are using machines to count 40,000 votes instead of counting them all by hand ... do you really need to ask?

[max]

Those scumbags will do anything to stop us ANYWAY...so why are you worried about upsetting them!...

They intend to rig these machines and those of you who dont speak up now will feel like fools if Ron Paul gets just 3% because the machines were rigged

[LibertyEagle]

According to mport1, Jeff from campaign HQ asked us to stop.

As far as upsetting the Iowa GOP goes... it is THESE people that we have to get on our side. Do you recall "delegates" and what part they play?

Please use your heads, folks. This seems to have turned into a lynch mob and is not serving us well at this point.

[ZandarKoad]

I agree there is cause for concern. I think everyone SHOULD call and complain. BUT DON'T FREAKING TELL THEM WHO YOU WANT TO WIN. That should not be a topic that even comes up.

[Ron Paul Fan]

Those scumbags will do anything to stop us ANYWAY...so why are you worried about upsetting them!...

They intend to rig these machines and those of you who dont speak up now will feel like fools if Ron Paul gets just 3% because the machines were rigged

No, those of you who are calling and associating yourselves with Ron Paul are the fools and maybe he will get 3% because that's a more accurate representation of his support in the state than what some of you think his support is. It's just unbelievable that people are calling and complaining and telling them you're Ron Paul supporters. Naked aggression is the province of dictators and rogue states and this is the danger of a preemptive first strike doctrine. I really fear that if Dr. Paul doesn't get the % that some of you think that he will get that this forum will be even more overrun with crazy "the machines are rigged" threads than it already is. We just need to calm down and focus on getting votes for the straw poll.

[mport1]

You guys are being too paranoid and the result is us pissing off the Iowa GOP which is a HUGE no-no. The campaign has told us to stop and we should. I just hope that if Ron polls really low something similar will not be organized.

For future reference, you should never mention Ron's name if you do something like this. It is completely unnecessary and counterproductive.

[LibertyEagle]

Meetup message received....

The campaign is advising to STOP calling the Iowa GOP. Please read the
following message from Jeff Frazee:

Everyone who is calling the Iowa GOP over these diebold machines is
doing a tremendous disservice to the Ron Paul campaign. Stop it. You are
destroying relationships and turning the Iowa GOP against Ron Paul.

The campaign is taking every reasonable precaution we can to ensure a
fair vote, and we ask that you leave it up to the campaign to speak with
the Iowa GOP. They know Ron Paul supporters are not satisfied with the
voting process, and any further phone calls only causes more problems
for the campaign.

Focus your attention on turning out to vote for Ron Paul in Ames on
Saturday as we are trying to do. Stop creating more problems than
necessary.

Please spread this message far and wide within the Ron Paul community.

Thanks,
Jeff Frazee
National Youth Coordinator - Ron Paul 2008

[PatriotOne]

Or perhaps, these are the machines that they use in Ames for regular elections, and they are just using what is readily available for the straw poll.

As to why they are using machines to count 40,000 votes instead of counting them all by hand ... do you really need to ask?

Are you saying it makes much more sense that they are shipping in machines that have been proven to be corruptable? I'm sure rthey had plenty of options and yet they choose thse machines? Don't you think they could easily find volunteers that wouldn't charge a dime to do hand counts? They could in a NY second and yet they refuse to do so. Instead they want to charge 180k for something they could have done for free by volunteers. How does this make sense to you? Everyone needs to wake up and smell the coffee here.

At this point, I wish the campaign would have demanded to know exactly what the vote procedures were going to be a long time ago and then refused to participate because of this obvious and blatant refusal to insure this was legitimate. Could have saved the campaign $ and all the supporters energies participating in this sham.

[PatriotOne]

It is whoever decided to use the Diebold Machines that should be ashamed, not the people complaining. It is a slap in the face to all Americans after everything that has been exposed about those things.

[AZ Libertarian]

Have any of you seen this?

http://www.votefraud.org/open_letter_straw_poll_part_1.htm

Especially take notice of Mr. Jim Condit Jr.'s story "WHY SHOULD YOU LISTEN TO THIS GUY? WHY SHOULD YOU TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS?"

Very enlightening.

[freelance]

It is whoever decided to use the Diebold Machines that should be ashamed, not the people complaining. It is a slap in the face to all Americans after everything that has been exposed about those things.

I'm as concerned as the next person, and I think that every single Diebold machine should be TRASHED yesterday!

That said, every single time we've thought it was the end of the world, guess what? Ron Paul has known exactly what he was doing, and it worked out. Remember the debate last weekend? Damn if we weren't hanging the crepe. Then, lo and behold, when FOX tried like hell to discredit him (I don't care what any of you say--Julie Bandaros was NOT giving RP a chance to clear the air), he came through with flying colors. Where's the proof?

Did you see his Web site stats spike that very day?

OF COURSE I'm in a panic over these machines. They've been used before... But, I do have enough faith in the campaign staff to do what they request. They KNOW what they're doing.

[LibertyEagle]

Meetup message received....

The campaign is advising to STOP calling the Iowa GOP. Please read the
following message from Jeff Frazee:

Everyone who is calling the Iowa GOP over these diebold machines is
doing a tremendous disservice to the Ron Paul campaign. Stop it. You are
destroying relationships and turning the Iowa GOP against Ron Paul.

The campaign is taking every reasonable precaution we can to ensure a
fair vote, and we ask that you leave it up to the campaign to speak with
the Iowa GOP. They know Ron Paul supporters are not satisfied with the
voting process, and any further phone calls only causes more problems
for the campaign.

Focus your attention on turning out to vote for Ron Paul in Ames on
Saturday as we are trying to do. Stop creating more problems than
necessary.

Please spread this message far and wide within the Ron Paul community.

Thanks,
Jeff Frazee
National Youth Coordinator - Ron Paul 2008

I repeat....

[Akus]

I didn't think people were actually calling the Iowa GOP. Basically they're getting worried over a problem that we don't even know will actually occur yet and they should stop bothering the Iowa GOP. If Ron Paul doesn't do as well as people think he will I fear they'll blame it on the machines and not his lack of time spent in Iowa. Please stop pestering these people about a problem at the Iowa Straw poll 3 days before the straw poll even begins!
I actually did call.

[tsetsefly]

at least they know there is real support out there, lol, but yes people should stop calling, the message got through...

ps. im new(to the forums) btw...

[Nefertiti]

Sometimes I think some of Ron Paul's supporters are attracted to him simply because they believe he will be a perpetual losing underdog as the result of conspiracies and it gives them something to raise hell over and they take a perverse pleasure in that. I don't know if this is people who feel persecuted themselves in their own lives but it is really growing old.

Even the front runners are the subject of negative press, on a much more regular basis. And if I were the press I would think twice about even running a positive piece on Ron Paul lest someone find a misplaced comma and a barrage of threatening emails and phone calls were to result. I would think twice if I were organizing a debate to invite him lest someone find the lighting on his tie to be to their distaste.

Grow some skin people! There is nothing more unattractive than people who have exaggerated ideas that they are being persecuted. No one wants to be around them nor hear anything they have to say. They are the kind of people everyone else in the office or in the classroom talks about behind their backs. You will be treated exactly like you regard yourself. This is REALITY.

Ron Paul needs supporters who will be continually upbeat about him and his chances of winning, who believe he WILL beat the odds or whatever obstacles are put in front of him because he has a winning message, not because he has a pack of attack dogs, and who will roll with the punches and not get their panties and briefs in a bunch every time someone else says something about him they don't agree with. Life and campaigns are not perfect but no one likes whiners.

[Man from La Mancha]

I saw no post previous to this one advocating to call and complain on this board, I don't think it came from here. But saying that and its only a straw poll I think it is great to let these people know that vote fraud won't be tolerated. Now is the time to take a stand and get this straightened out in "only a straw vote" before the primaries begin. This issue has to be second only to getting Ron Paul votes and supporters. Why should we care who gets upset. I want them to know vote fraud in the primaries is a jailable offense. Let their butts start burning now.

Edit added... I now see someone did suggest calling. I have to read all post between the time s I'm off line befor I speak

.

[ThePieSwindler]

What bothers me is not calling the Iowa GOP, but people calling it, saying they are Ron paul supporters, and going hysterical about it. I'll bet there were truthers/Alex Jones listener types (i like alex jones, dont get me wrong) that called and were rude and forceful to the Iowa GOP. Simply saying you are a concerned citizen, and that you are worried for ALL the candidates that there might be voter fraud because Diebold machines are known to be lacking in security. Mention nothing about who you support. Of course its too lat efor that now, since they'll just automatically assume its a Ron paul supporter, so just stop calling altogether!

[spacebetween]

I saw no post previous to this one advocating to call and complain on this board, I don't think it came from here. But saying that and its only a straw poll I think it is great to let these people know that vote fraud won't be tolerated. Now is the time to take a stand and get this straightened out in "only a straw vote" before the primaries begin. This issue has to be second only to getting Ron Paul votes and supporters. Why should we care who gets upset. I want them to know vote fraud in the primaries is a jailable offense. Let their butts start burning now.

.

Yeah, I don't know where it originated from, but I got a message from my Meet-Up which seemed to advocate calling the Iowa GOP. Our Meet-Up leader later forwarded Jeff's message along, though.

[ChicagoLawyer]

Sometimes I think some of Ron Paul's supporters are attracted to him simply because they believe he will be a perpetual losing underdog as the result of conspiracies and it gives them something to raise hell over and they take a perverse pleasure in that. I don't know if this is people who feel persecuted themselves in their own lives but it is really growing old.

Even the front runners are the subject of negative press, on a much more regular basis. And if I were the press I would think twice about even running a positive piece on Ron Paul lest someone find a misplaced comma and a barrage of threatening emails and phone calls were to result. I would think twice if I were organizing a debate to invite him lest someone find the lighting on his tie to be to their distaste.

Grow some skin people! There is nothing more unattractive than people who have exaggerated ideas that they are being persecuted. No one wants to be around them nor hear anything they have to say. They are the kind of people everyone else in the office or in the classroom talks about behind their backs. You will be treated exactly like you regard yourself. This is REALITY.

Ron Paul needs supporters who will be continually upbeat about him and his chances of winning, who believe he WILL beat the odds or whatever obstacles are put in front of him because he has a winning message, not because he has a pack of attack dogs, and who will roll with the punches and not get their panties and briefs in a bunch every time someone else says something about him they don't agree with. Life and campaigns are not perfect but no one likes whiners.

Exactly. Please calm down everyone. When you freek out like this it just scares Republican primary voters away. What do you think Ron Paul is doing? Running for the Republican primary. See how the two match up?

[mport1]

Sometimes I think some of Ron Paul's supporters are attracted to him simply because they believe he will be a perpetual losing underdog as the result of conspiracies and it gives them something to raise hell over and they take a perverse pleasure in that. I don't know if this is people who feel persecuted themselves in their own lives but it is really growing old.

Even the front runners are the subject of negative press, on a much more regular basis. And if I were the press I would think twice about even running a positive piece on Ron Paul lest someone find a misplaced comma and a barrage of threatening emails and phone calls were to result. I would think twice if I were organizing a debate to invite him lest someone find the lighting on his tie to be to their distaste.

Grow some skin people! There is nothing more unattractive than people who have exaggerated ideas that they are being persecuted. No one wants to be around them nor hear anything they have to say. They are the kind of people everyone else in the office or in the classroom talks about behind their backs. You will be treated exactly like you regard yourself. This is REALITY.

Ron Paul needs supporters who will be continually upbeat about him and his chances of winning, who believe he WILL beat the odds or whatever obstacles are put in front of him because he has a winning message, not because he has a pack of attack dogs, and who will roll with the punches and not get their panties and briefs in a bunch every time someone else says something about him they don't agree with. Life and campaigns are not perfect but no one likes whiners.

DITTO!

[paulitics]

What I don't understand is why anyone has felt the necessity to tell the Iowa GOP WHO you are supporting, when calling in about the Diebold machines. What does it have to do with the point of the call, anyway?

exactly. This is a bipartisan issue.

[Badger Paul]

Please don't destoy the thing we all love with mindless zealotry. Everyone clam down and get back to work helping RP?

[ThePieSwindler]

Please don't destoy the thing we all love with mindless zealotry. Everyone clam down and get back to work helping RP?

I agree - all the negative energy could be converted to positive energy to help further the cause. CALL IOWANS i just made my first couple phone calls - i was nervous as hell but we NEED to do it.

[WannaBfree]

It boggles my mind that some would think it is wrong to question the GOP about their use of voting machines which have been proven to be hackable. This isn't a Ron Paul issue - it's an issue about free elections in our country and should concern every American. At the very minimum the GOP made a bad decision to use these machines. They should get feedback for this.

Those of you who believe that this is all just paranoid conspiracy stuff should educate yourself. Here are some videos:

Rigged USA Elections Exposed (12 min)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2615703918066275099

Princeton University Exposes Diebold Flaws (10 min)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6590793631232799613

Bush Family Fortunes (60 min)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8187301869971500776

Vote Fraud website:
http://www.votefraud.org/

Much more info can be found searching 'diebold' or 'vote fraud'.


"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." - Stalin

[ThePieSwindler]

It boggles my mind that some would think it is wrong to question the GOP about their use of voting machines which have been proven to be hackable. This isn't a Ron Paul issue - it's an issue about free elections in our country and should concern every American. At the very minimum the GOP made a bad decision to use these machines. They should get feedback for this.

Those of you who believe that this is all just paranoid conspiracy stuff should educate yourself. Here are some videos:

Rigged USA Elections Exposed (12 min)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2615703918066275099

Princeton University Exposes Diebold Flaws (10 min)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6590793631232799613

Bush Family Fortunes (60 min)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8187301869971500776

Vote Fraud website:
http://www.votefraud.org/

Much more info can be found searching 'diebold' or 'vote fraud'.


"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." - Stalin


As i've said earlier in the thread, it IS an issue we need to hold them accountable for. Unfortunately, it was approached the wrong way. It needed to have been approached from the standpoint of "concerned citizens" worried about hacking and failure of the Diebold machines. Instead, it was approached as a Ron Paul issue by many, and now even if you DO call and mention it respectfully as a concerned citizen, it will be assumed that you are another Ron Paul "fanatic". Now that its attached to his name, its a problem. If the calls had been made from the proper approach of general concern from the get-go, i would advocate continuation of calls. Unfortunately its too late for that now.

What REALLY miffs me is not the use of the diebold, but the fact that the Iowa GOP has openly stated that they will not have a recount. If you're going to use these machines, fine, but at LEAST have a paper trail. The fact that they are refusing to have a hand recount, and that other campaigns are ok with that, reeks of something fishy. But we CANNOT alienate ourselves from the Iowa GOP either.

[Tofubadguy]

I agree there is cause for concern. I think everyone SHOULD call and complain. BUT DON'T FREAKING TELL THEM WHO YOU WANT TO WIN. That should not be a topic that even comes up.

I agree completely. First of all where's the god damned link to any official blog or Ron Paul centric/endorsed info site? I have seen copy and paste myspace alerts about this message from Jeff Frazee, I've seen the same text copy and pasted here too.... without any link to any official or very involved site in the Paul campaign that endorses this message from Jeff Frazee.

I can see the wisdom in the message it self and do think there is something redeeming in it's reason for being. But number 1, Where is the message from? Where was it posted to besides freaking myspace? And where the endorsement for this message from headquarters?

I haven't called them yet and wouldn't anyway, but why is this linkless message gaining so much blind support? I see sheeple.

LINK!!!!!!!

[DeadheadForPaul]

The people who are paranoid about the Diebold machines need to chill out. They wont need to rig the elections if you continue to turn people off with your conspiracy theorist rantings. GET A GRIP

[ThePieSwindler]

The people who are paranoid about the Diebold machines need to chill out. They wont need to rig the elections if you continue to turn people off with your conspiracy theorist rantings. GET A GRIP

Agreed, they would probably only rig it if Ron paul was really seen as a threat. They do rig them (the owner of Diebold Election Machines said "we need to do everything we can to get Bush in the white house" back in 2004) but they aren't going to go after someone who is a 2nd tier candidate at this point. It still REALLY bothers me that there is no accountability and they refuse to be accountable, but it doesnt automatically mean they are out to get Ron.

[DeadheadForPaul]

Those scumbags will do anything to stop us ANYWAY...so why are you worried about upsetting them!...

They intend to rig these machines and those of you who dont speak up now will feel like fools if Ron Paul gets just 3% because the machines were rigged

People like you turn off 10 people for every 1 that I turn onto the Paul campaign.

Not everyone is out to get us or Ron Paul. This is not the X-Files

Do you have proof that they intend to rig the machines? No. In fact, they probably will not need to if we continue to alienate the leaders of the GOP and the average voter.
What is this? The LaRouche campaign? Some people are certainly acting like his supporters

[Man from La Mancha]

All this is a good learning and adjustment kind of thing for Ron and all of us. This is only the first semi official battle we have to face and next time there won't be as many unknowns. I will be very curious how this plays out so I can figure what to do next time. I really like these forums. I get see view points I haven't considered.

[PatriotOne]

It boggles my mind that some would think it is wrong to question the GOP about their use of voting machines which have been proven to be hackable. This isn't a Ron Paul issue - it's an issue about free elections in our country and should concern every American. At the very minimum the GOP made a bad decision to use these machines. They should get feedback for this.

Those of you who believe that this is all just paranoid conspiracy stuff should educate yourself. Here are some videos:

Rigged USA Elections Exposed (12 min)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2615703918066275099

Princeton University Exposes Diebold Flaws (10 min)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6590793631232799613

Bush Family Fortunes (60 min)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8187301869971500776

Vote Fraud website:
http://www.votefraud.org/

Much more info can be found searching 'diebold' or 'vote fraud'.


"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." - Stalin

I am sitting here wondering how fast I can sell my house and move out of the country after seeing how so many people on this board are worried about alienating the very same Iowa GOP that that is intentionally using voting machines know to be manipulated to steal elections. The complacency on this board is seriously disheartening and I am shaking my head in wonder at the ignorance of those advising everyone to just calm down and see what happens and play by their rules. I don't know how they expect anything is going to be different than the past stolen elections with this attitude of worrying about "offending the criminals". Ugh...I think I will start Googling Costa Rica....

[Man from La Mancha]

People like you turn off 10 people for every 1 that I turn onto the Paul campaign.

Not everyone is out to get us or Ron Paul.

Do you have proof that the intend to rig the machines? No. In fact, they probably will not need to if we continue to alienate the leaders of the GOP and the average voter. What is this? The LaRouche campaign? Some people are certainly acting like his supporters

Beg to differ, there is over 10 years of provable vote fraud. It has be addressed at every kind of voting machine vote. It is a conspiracy in the true definition of the word but is not the brainwashed term "conspiracy" that now means one who is nuts and should be ignored.

.

[paulitics]

What REALLY miffs me is not the use of the diebold, but the fact that the Iowa GOP has openly stated that they will not have a recount. If you're going to use these machines, fine, but at LEAST have a paper trail. The fact that they are refusing to have a hand recount, and that other campaigns are ok with that, reeks of something fishy. But we CANNOT alienate ourselves from the Iowa GOP either.


I agree, and their whole attitude raises a red flag. This process could have been done a dozen different ways, but they are choosing the road with the least accountability. Why?

I have my own opinions on this as well as this whole straw poll. I would be lying if I said I wasn't disenchanted, and based on their actions thus far, I have little confidance in the ethics of this straw poll.

But I agree that we should have approached this differently. The problem with grassroots is its entirely haphazard, there is never any orgainzed strategies. You get a couple of overzealous people, and it can become counterproductive.

I am in favor of an exit poll however. It is the least confrontational. Heck, this is a big event, and I'm sure exit polling is not anything unusual and will give US an idea if there was foulplay. Only if the discrepency is significant, should we even cry wolf. A sore loser approach, after the fact, can devestate us.
But even better, is their maybe an unbiased 3rd party, private organization that could conduct a straw poll for us? We may, not have any credibility, I mean afterall we are biased. Anyone else like that idea?

[LibertyEagle]

No one is complacent, PatriotOne. Campaign HQ asked us to stop, so don't you agree that we should do what they asked? It probably would have been just fine for us to call, but apparently some were telling the Iowa GOP that they were RP supporters and it was causing blowback towards the campaign.

[Nefertiti]

Quit twisting our words! Dissociating Ron Paul from the voting machines issue doesn't mean we don't believe that the voting machines issue is important. Read the forum topic: Ron Paul News and Discussion. Ask yourself how voting machines has anything to do with Ron Paul specifically, and then move the discussion of the voting machines to a more appropriate forum if you wish to discuss it.

[xita]

If you want to crusade about Debloid or Any Conspiracy theories - No matter how true you think they are:

Do NOT attach the Ron Paul Brand to it.

[ThePieSwindler]

If you want to crusade about Debloid or Any Conspiracy theories - No matter how true you think they are:

Do NOT attach the Ron Paul Brand to it.


ouch dude plz don't do that :( hurts mah eyez


666 posts, bitches.

[kylebrotherton]

I've heard from people close to the campaign that they're dealing with this, and we should focus on what they've asked us to focus on.

Just because it makes you feel good, doesn't mean your helping.

[Mort]

This forum is for electing Ron Paul. If the campaign asks us to do something, we do it!
Complaining about Diebold doesn't get us anywhere. There is no way we get all the machines changed in a short amount of time.

[DeadheadForPaul]

Sometimes I think some of Ron Paul's supporters are attracted to him simply because they believe he will be a perpetual losing underdog as the result of conspiracies and it gives them something to raise hell over and they take a perverse pleasure in that. I don't know if this is people who feel persecuted themselves in their own lives but it is really growing old.

Even the front runners are the subject of negative press, on a much more regular basis. And if I were the press I would think twice about even running a positive piece on Ron Paul lest someone find a misplaced comma and a barrage of threatening emails and phone calls were to result. I would think twice if I were organizing a debate to invite him lest someone find the lighting on his tie to be to their distaste.

Grow some skin people! There is nothing more unattractive than people who have exaggerated ideas that they are being persecuted. No one wants to be around them nor hear anything they have to say. They are the kind of people everyone else in the office or in the classroom talks about behind their backs. You will be treated exactly like you regard yourself. This is REALITY.

Ron Paul needs supporters who will be continually upbeat about him and his chances of winning, who believe he WILL beat the odds or whatever obstacles are put in front of him because he has a winning message, not because he has a pack of attack dogs, and who will roll with the punches and not get their panties and briefs in a bunch every time someone else says something about him they don't agree with. Life and campaigns are not perfect but no one likes whiners.


Amen, bro. You said exactly what I've been thinking

It's like watching a bunch of soccer players taking a fall in order to get the ref to blow the whistle for a penalty..except these players don't even care about the penalty, they're just doing it so they have an excuse as to why they failed

There is no better way to turn off normal voters than to scream "OMGz!! All the voting machines belong to the Illuminati! The international elite own the media and are keeping us down :( " Give me a break guys

[Tofubadguy]

If you want to crusade about Debloid or Any Conspiracy theories - No matter how true you think they are:

Do NOT attach the Ron Paul Brand to it.


I agree 100%

[ThePieSwindler]

FUCKING CALL IOWANS not the Iowa GOP. We NEED to get the word out more!

[Tofubadguy]

I've heard from people close to the campaign that they're dealing with this, and we should focus on what they've asked us to focus on.

Just because it makes you feel good, doesn't mean your helping.


No one is complacent, PatriotOne. Campaign HQ asked us to stop, so don't you agree that we should do what they asked? It probably would have been just fine for us to call, but apparently some were telling the Iowa GOP that they were RP supporters and it was causing blowback towards the campaign.


This forum is for electing Ron Paul. If the campaign asks us to do something, we do it!
Complaining about Diebold doesn't get us anywhere. There is no way we get all the machines changed in a short amount of time.

I suppose a few people here got a few special phone calls from headquarters...?
Again where is there a link to any official acknowledgment to this situation? I've said I agree with the message premise, but I'm not going to jump on a bandwagon unless I know it's freaking destination or who is driving it. Period.

[mackler]

I don't know what secret plans exist for dishonest tallying, nor whether such a thing will be detectable. But I'll say this: God help anyone who gets caught trying to fraudulently and materially manipulate the count. I'm peaceful, the official campaign is peaceful, and 99.9% of all the volunteers are peaceful. But there are certainly some lone nuts out there taking orders from no one but their own emotions.

PS. I don't see anything wrong with calling as an individual and indicating you want a fair and public count. Tell them you're a Romney supporter and you're worried that some rabid Ron Paul supporter is going to hack the machines and steal first place from the obvious front-runner.

hmm. that just gives me a thought...What if RP took first, and then the MSM tried to spin it as a result of faulty machines.

[WannaBfree]

I don't know what secret plans exist for dishonest tallying, nor whether such a thing will be detectable.

check these out for the answer:

Princeton University Exposes Diebold Flaws (10 min)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6590793631232799613

Rigged USA Elections Exposed (12 min)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2615703918066275099

[stevedasbach]

The following is being reported on the KCCI website:

"As I write this, we're working on getting to the bottom of a report that some supporters of candidate Ron Paul are threatening to file a lawsuit to stop the whole straw poll process."

If there is any truth to this, it's almost certainly related to the Diebold machine issue. And, whether or not a suit is actually filed, coverage like this makes Ron's campaign look bad in the eyes of the voters we need to reach.

PLEASE let Ron decide if/when legal action, protests, etc. are needed.

[LibertyEagle]

I suppose a few people here got a few special phone calls from headquarters...?
Again where is there a link to any official acknowledgment to this situation? I've said I agree with the message premise, but I'm not going to jump on a bandwagon unless I know it's freaking destination or who is driving it. Period.

I have twice posted the message from Jeff at campaign headquarters, which I received from my Meetup group organizer. Please scroll up to view it.

[PatriotOne]

No one is complacent, PatriotOne. Campaign HQ asked us to stop, so don't you agree that we should do what they asked? It probably would have been just fine for us to call, but apparently some were telling the Iowa GOP that they were RP supporters and it was causing blowback towards the campaign.

I can agree with the "not identifying yourself with RP" part during the Diebold protests. The pisser about that is that RP has some of the most informed and researched people on his side who know what the hell is going on. It's those same people who are attracted to RP BECAUSE they are aware of all the issues surrounding the corruptness. Many of the RP supporters tried to warn us about this a long time ago.....and here it is happening. That's not a coincidence, it's because they are aware of their tactics and have lived through it first hand in some cases. It's kind of a double edged sword that there are so many dragons that need to be slayed in this election and RP supporters are the ones that know about them and are concerned about it (for a VERY good reason). There ARE conspiracies going on and will be throughout the whole freaking campaign. Voting machines are a biggie because everything will be for nothing if something isn't done about them. Those of us who are informed KNOW this. Not because it is just a theory...because it has already happened and is history. What is too stop them from doing it again? Apparently nothing, because first thing out of the gate for this election they are using the very same machines that stole elections of the past. It just makes me want to cry :(

Hopefully people have made enough noise about this by now and know how closely people will be watching them that they won't dare cheat. But thinking that all we can do is hope and pray for things to be fair now and in the future during this election is the criminals wet dream. If people in this campaign and the supporters don't realize this, I guarantee we have already lost the Presidential election because of fraud. We are not only battling for RP popularity and getting the word out, we are also battling fraud....period.

I'm gong to go curl up in the fetal position now and hopefully fall asleep to regain some energy. Thinking about all the battles to fight is really exhausting :(

Can you please figure out a way to defeat the vote fraud problem while I rest now? It would be much appreciated :) . Sorry about the long post.

[LibertyEagle]

Meetup message received....

The campaign is advising to STOP calling the Iowa GOP. Please read the
following message from Jeff Frazee:

Everyone who is calling the Iowa GOP over these diebold machines is
doing a tremendous disservice to the Ron Paul campaign. Stop it. You are
destroying relationships and turning the Iowa GOP against Ron Paul.

The campaign is taking every reasonable precaution we can to ensure a
fair vote, and we ask that you leave it up to the campaign to speak with
the Iowa GOP. They know Ron Paul supporters are not satisfied with the
voting process, and any further phone calls only causes more problems
for the campaign.

Focus your attention on turning out to vote for Ron Paul in Ames on
Saturday as we are trying to do. Stop creating more problems than
necessary.

Please spread this message far and wide within the Ron Paul community.

Thanks,
Jeff Frazee
National Youth Coordinator - Ron Paul 2008

Hopefully, third time is a charm. :)

[Ron Paul Fan]

The following is being reported on the KCCI website:

"As I write this, we're working on getting to the bottom of a report that some supporters of candidate Ron Paul are threatening to file a lawsuit to stop the whole straw poll process."

If there is any truth to this, it's almost certainly related to the Diebold machine issue. And, whether or not a suit is actually filed, coverage like this makes Ron's campaign look bad in the eyes of the voters we need to reach.

PLEASE let Ron decide if/when legal action, protests, etc. are needed.

Oh god, at least let the straw poll actually occur before you do this crap! I can't believe people are doing this and feel the need to associate themselves with Ron Paul. We can achieve much more in peace than we can with these needless, undeclared, unconstitutional wars. These people frighten me, they frighten me and they're doing much more harm than good.

[stevedasbach]

Even if you don't identify yourself as a Ron Paul supporter, ANY complaints about Diebold machines are going to be attributed to the Paul campaign.

Ron, through his campaign staff, has asked that his supporters not call the Iowa GOP about this -- period. If we truly support him, we will honor his request.

[DeadheadForPaul]

The following is being reported on the KCCI website:

"As I write this, we're working on getting to the bottom of a report that some supporters of candidate Ron Paul are threatening to file a lawsuit to stop the whole straw poll process."

If there is any truth to this, it's almost certainly related to the Diebold machine issue. And, whether or not a suit is actually filed, coverage like this makes Ron's campaign look bad in the eyes of the voters we need to reach.

PLEASE let Ron decide if/when legal action, protests, etc. are needed.

Goddamnit.
"As I write this, we're working on getting to the bottom of a report that some supporters of candidate Ron Paul are threatening to file a lawsuit to stop the whole straw poll process.

KCCI's Michelle Parker is tracking down the story, and I hesitate to even mention it, because his Web site mentions nothing, and the campaign is still talking like all is normal.

I just got off the phone with Michelle, who said she talked with Paul, who knows nothing about any lawsuit and while the official campaign folk say they are concerned about accuracy of the straw poll count they are NOT threatening any lawsuits. We'll have the story on "NEWSCHANNEL 8 at SIX.""

nice going

[LibertyEagle]

The following is being reported on the KCCI website:

"As I write this, we're working on getting to the bottom of a report that some supporters of candidate Ron Paul are threatening to file a lawsuit to stop the whole straw poll process."

If there is any truth to this, it's almost certainly related to the Diebold machine issue. And, whether or not a suit is actually filed, coverage like this makes Ron's campaign look bad in the eyes of the voters we need to reach.

PLEASE let Ron decide if/when legal action, protests, etc. are needed.

Oh crap!!! People seriously need to grow some brains. This is not the kind of publicity we need right now. The straw poll matters, of course it does. But, it is not the primary. Very few people in Iowa even know who the hell Ron Paul is, much less know his stances on the issues. If we don't get his message spread to people, it won't matter whether the voting machines are crooked as all hell, because our man would still lose.

Dr. Paul is a rock star on the internet. We have done our jobs well. Now, we have to take the word out beyond our computers into the neighborhoods in our own cities and towns. Think of all the people we are missing who don't live on the internet. People who only know what they see on TV. We've got to get the message to THEM.

[WannaBfree]

Even if you don't identify yourself as a Ron Paul supporter, ANY complaints about Diebold machines are going to be attributed to the Paul campaign.

If this is true, it is pretty stupid considering this subject is being discussed on numerous NON Ron Paul related sites, and it is a subject of concern for many informed citizens.

[Highmesa]

I'm gong to go curl up in the fetal position now and hopefully fall asleep to regain some energy. Thinking about all the battles to fight is really exhausting :(

Here's some advice P1.

Take a piece of paper and write down all the battles you are, or want to fight. Fold that piece of paper up and put it in your sock drawer.

Now, forget all the battles except for the battle to get Ron elected. In November 08, when Ron wins, then go back and pull out your piece of paper.

My guess, is that some of those battles will be moot, and the political environment will be much freindlier for you to fight the battles you still have left.

[WannaBfree]

The following is being reported on the KCCI website:

"As I write this, we're working on getting to the bottom of a report that some supporters of candidate Ron Paul are threatening to file a lawsuit to stop the whole straw poll process."

If there is any truth to this, it's almost certainly related to the Diebold machine issue. And, whether or not a suit is actually filed, coverage like this makes Ron's campaign look bad in the eyes of the voters we need to reach.

PLEASE let Ron decide if/when legal action, protests, etc. are needed.


Someone is quoting someone from another forum (?) who mentions an uncomfirmed rumour by an unknown source that some Ron Paul supporters might be filing a lawsuit. And some people here are reacting like it's the end of the campaign!

[Tofubadguy]

I suppose there is one good thing about this. Lots of people are learning about the Diebold machines for the first time. If the Paul campaign plays it's cards right this whole thing and it's exposure would be absolutely positive.

The spontaneous supporters, grass roots, not centrally organized, this was not ordered by headquarters, can't be responsible for everyone who supports you... etc, etc...

And then start in with... "But while we're on the subject, the Diebold machines everywhere do need to be looked at closer. Here are the states who have de-certified them, here is testimony from a designer of the system, etc, etc.

If we're smart enough, and reading through this today I have my doubts, this could be nothing but good news.

[WannaBfree]

The shills are having to work really hard today.

[mackler]

If the campaign asks us to do something, we do it!

Yes master.

[ghemminger]

Someone is quoting someone from another forum (?) who mentions an uncomfirmed rumour by an unknown source that some Ron Paul supporters might be filing a lawsuit. And some people here are reacting like it's the end of the campaign!

Yup this is real...My meetup oragnizer had me sit on a conference call and it was a group thatwas planning the parallel election...I remember them saying somthing about legal action and signing avidavits...this is a group (non-Internet_ pushing this foward....

[Ninja Homer]

Goddamnit.
"As I write this, we're working on getting to the bottom of a report that some supporters of candidate Ron Paul are threatening to file a lawsuit to stop the whole straw poll process.

KCCI's Michelle Parker is tracking down the story, and I hesitate to even mention it, because his Web site mentions nothing, and the campaign is still talking like all is normal.

I just got off the phone with Michelle, who said she talked with Paul, who knows nothing about any lawsuit and while the official campaign folk say they are concerned about accuracy of the straw poll count they are NOT threatening any lawsuits. We'll have the story on "NEWSCHANNEL 8 at SIX.""

nice going

This is probably about the on-air battle between Jim Condit and Chuck Laudner on WHO with Jan Mickelson this morning. Jim Condit was talking about filing a lawsuit.

Podcast available: http://www.mickelson.libsyn.com/

[Wyurm]

I've seen alot of people telling others how horrible it is to call the Iowa GOP and act like a fool, however, who said anyone on this forum is calling and saying they are with the Ron Paul campaign? This message is useless and pointless unless delivered to the actual source. I suggest finding out where a call to action that told supporters to call the Iowa GOP started, and make sure to give THEM this info.

[Tofubadguy]

Hopefully, third time is a charm. :)

Yes, we've all read this copy and paste message with no source other than the guys name. This is not a link.

Maybe it's the Paul campaigns idea to completely ignore the people calling in to the GOP which will put them in a good plausible deniability stance. But if it is of such a concern, they should put something on one of their sites, as it would only take like 5 minutes to do, and clearly state their positions on these alleged rumors of all the calls, lawsuits, etc....

This whole thing seems like a setup really. I've been waiting for something similar for a while. Ron Paul is likely to do very well if not win in Iowa. We should look into this as much as possible to see where it really stemmed from, because this is exactly what they've been waiting for.

LINK...?

[Nefertiti]

This is probably about the on-air battle between Jim Condit and Chuck Laudner on WHO with Jan Mickelson this morning. Jim Condit was talking about filing a lawsuit.

Podcast available: http://www.mickelson.libsyn.com/

You may be right:

http://www.rense.com/general77/stop.htm

http://www.votefraud.org/ron_paul_stop_the_votefraud_page.htm

[Tofubadguy]

http://www.kcci.com/politics/index.html

There is nothing I can find as of now about this story there. But it is a LINK which maybe handy if there winds up being something there.

[LibertyEagle]

Yes, we've all read this copy and paste message with no source other than the guys name. This is not a link.

Maybe it's the Paul campaigns idea to completely ignore the people calling in to the GOP which will put them in a good plausible deniability stance. But if it is of such a concern, they should put something on one of their sites, as it would only take like 5 minutes to do, and clearly state their positions on these alleged rumors of all the calls, lawsuits, etc....

This whole thing seems like a setup really. I've been waiting for something similar for a while. Ron Paul is likely to do very well if not win in Iowa. We should look into this as much as possible to see where it really stemmed from, because this is exactly what they've been waiting for.

LINK...?

As I said, it was a message forwarded to us from our Meetup Organizer. Jeff Frazee from campaign headquarters sent it to him.

I assume the same exact message was sent to every Meetup organizer. If you doubt its authenticity, contact your own Meetup organizer.

[LibertyEagle]

I've seen alot of people telling others how horrible it is to call the Iowa GOP and act like a fool, however, who said anyone on this forum is calling and saying they are with the Ron Paul campaign? This message is useless and pointless unless delivered to the actual source. I suggest finding out where a call to action that told supporters to call the Iowa GOP started, and make sure to give THEM this info.

It has been on this board. There are multiple thread about this subject.

[Wyurm]

It has been on this board. There are multiple thread about this subject.

With people saying to call the Iowa GOP? I'm fairly certain this is the real source: http://www.mickelson.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=243359

[LibertyEagle]

With people saying to call the Iowa GOP? I'm fairly certain this is the real source: http://www.mickelson.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=243359


Hardly. This whole subject has been talked about for days on this board and I'm not saying there was anything wrong with doing so, either. It's just that now, the campaign has asked us to back off. This all started as I recall, from an article that came out that talked about the Diebold machines and provided the phone numbers.

Here's one for you:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=11182

[freelance]

It's there:

http://www.kcci.com/news/13850441/detail.html

Kevin Cooney's Daily Screenshot

The State Fair or the Iowa Straw Poll? Which will be more entertaining this weekend? Let us do some analysis, shall we?

First off, for a look at what the straw poll is, a brief background can be found in Wednesday's Washington Post.

The official explanation is at the GOP's Web site.

I'll be talking to our political analyst Dennis Goldford about it this Saturday morning on Newschannel 8's Weekend morning news.

Goldford is watching for three specific things Saturday in Ames. First, how Mitt Romney does. Goldford said Romney has an "Iowa based strategy" and needs a good showing in the straw poll (as well as the caucuses) to move beyond Iowa. Second, who will emerge as the "evangelical conservative alternative?" Goldford points out the strength of this group within the Iowa GOP. Third, how much will the "herd" be thinned? Who will come out of the straw poll with their tail between their legs...limping legs at that?

Like I said, Goldford will be on the weekend morning news so I hope you'll join us.

One article in particular that grabbed me about this was in Wednesday morning's Des Moines Register. Columnist John Carlson really questions a lot of what's happening.

I called Carlson on Wednesday to talk about it. Is he cynical about this? The Register columnist is bothered by what he calls a "created event." He said he has no problem with GOP doing whatever it wants to raise money -- and this is the biggest fundraiser for the Iowa GOP.

However, political pundits and Republicans from outside of Iowa often have taken aim at the Iowa straw poll for a variety of reasons.

One is that it only shows who has the most money (each vote costs a minimum of $35, not including expenses incurred by the candidates for tents and food and materials.)

Another criticism is that Iowa is taking "two bites from the apple" by getting all the early coverage from the caucuses and now a pre-caucus event. Carlson told me he thinks it's a "phony bite of the apple."

"After all the campaigning, political reporters finally have some real numbers to report a score. But it's a score that represents nothing," Carlson said.

He also points out that as much as reporters have said that it's only a straw poll and nothing official, they’ll still be reading a lot into the numbers.

"You watch," he said. "Sunday morning 'Meet the Press,' (CBS' Bob) Schieffer and (ABC's George) Stephanopoulos will have plenty to say."

Finally, Carlson put it this way, It's like an "NFL pre-season game that's covered like a playoff game."

Agree or disagree, you have got to appreciate the thoughts. Thanks John.

As I write this, we're working on getting to the bottom of a report that some supporters of candidate Ron Paul are threatening to file a lawsuit to stop the whole straw poll process.

KCCI's Michelle Parker is tracking down the story, and I hesitate to even mention it, because his Web site mentions nothing, and the campaign is still talking like all is normal.

I just got off the phone with Michelle, who said she talked with Paul, who knows nothing about any lawsuit and while the official campaign folk say they are concerned about accuracy of the straw poll count they are NOT threatening any lawsuits. We'll have the story on "NEWSCHANNEL 8 at SIX."

But remember we started out asking the question: Straw Poll or State Fair? So in the interest of fairness we must compare!

While the GOP will have some (but not all) of its candidates speaking and handing out food and fliers in Ames, the state fair has the Cornflake Cloggers, marble shooting, and the Rock 'n' Roll reunion, just to name a few.

(And lots of food on sticks)

Such a tough choice!

snip...

[mport1]

This shit is ridiculous. People need to think before they act. Everything is not a conspiracy, and everybody is not out to get us. Just chill out. This energy could be used in so many better ways like actually trying to get Iowans to go vote for Paul.

We are starting to really make a bad name for ourselves as supporters and all of this reflects on Ron whether we like it or not.

[ghemminger]

This shit is ridiculous. People need to think before they act. Everything is not a conspiracy, and everybody is not out to get us. Just chill out. This energy could be used in so many better ways like actually trying to get Iowans to go vote for Paul.

We are starting to really make a bad name for ourselves as supporters and all of this reflects on Ron whether we like it or not.

This has been planned by a (non-internet) group for quite some time......I guess a NEWS story is a brewing!:(

[mport1]

Yes, we've all read this copy and paste message with no source other than the guys name. This is not a link.

Maybe it's the Paul campaigns idea to completely ignore the people calling in to the GOP which will put them in a good plausible deniability stance. But if it is of such a concern, they should put something on one of their sites, as it would only take like 5 minutes to do, and clearly state their positions on these alleged rumors of all the calls, lawsuits, etc....

This whole thing seems like a setup really. I've been waiting for something similar for a while. Ron Paul is likely to do very well if not win in Iowa. We should look into this as much as possible to see where it really stemmed from, because this is exactly what they've been waiting for.

LINK...?

Dude, the campaign can't call you every time they want to tell us something. They have got to get the message out to us any way they can. Jeff Frazee directly told us this, so why not just accept that?

[Bergie Bergeron]

It was posted on Facebook by Jeff Frazee himself.

[PatriotOne]

I hope they ended up doing this myself.

And for all of those worried about "offending" the GOP, go back to supporting Ron Paul the best way you know how and get out of the way of those who are trying to insure your support counts for something. They have a right to do this and they have good reason to do this. You should be thankful people are out there sticking their necks out and taking the heat and trying to take back your most basic rights.

I really get sick of clueless people trying to stop those who have a fricken clue.


http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2007-08-05.htm

On Tuesday, August 7, 2007, a letter is delivered to the Iowa Republican Party and the State and County Boards of Elections. The letter is signed by various good-government and election reform organizations and holders of $35 tickets that entitle them to vote in the Ames Straw Poll. The letter says that unless the following 10-point program is agreed to, a court order will be sought to enjoin and prohibit the Ames Straw Poll until the reforms are agreed to:

1. From the time the voter votes to the time the results of the vote are publicly announced, all paper ballots are never out of the view of the public.

2. Instead of being deposited into a black box, each completed paper ballot is deposited into a numbered, clear-plastic, container that is in clear public view all day. The number on the container matches a number on the machine. The numbers are 4 inches high, black on white.

3. Each candidate on the ballot has the Right to have an observer present for an inspection by the County of each container. The single inspection is scheduled to take place 9:55 am at each of the 60 vote stations.

4. Surrounding each vote station at a distance of 30 feet from the numbered clear plastic container is a rope beyond which any person can quietly stand to quietly observe the clear-plastic containers and the number of voters.

5. As the voting period ends, each ballot box is set on one of two 72” cafeteria-style tables that have been set up at each of the 60 voting stations. There, the ballots are separated and hand counted.

6. Besides two members of the staff of the County or State Board of Elections, each candidate has a Right to have a representative participate in the counting process. All county and candidate Counters must agree on the candidate allocation of each vote. Once all Counters are in agreement on the allocation of all votes, the result of the count is read aloud for public consumption.

7. The paper ballots are then returned to the numbered, clear-plastic containers, which are then transported to a central location, -- never out of view of the county and candidate observers or the general public.

8. At the central location, the containers are placed inside an area that has been roped off. Within the roped off area, chairs have been set up for the county and candidate counters.

9. As each numbered container arrives at the central location, the results of the hand-counted vote is read aloud by one of the County observers and entered into a computer for projection onto a screen in the room and for posting on the County and State websites.

10. After the results of the vote from each of the 60 vote stations is read aloud, the cumulative totals from the hand-counts are agreed to by the county and candidate Counters, read aloud and entered into the computer for projection onto the screen in the room and for posting on the County and State websites. This process is continued until the results of the vote at all 60 vote stations have been read aloud and added to the prior total.

NOTE: The Ames Straw Poll is the very first contest that has any meaning in the run up to the Presidential election. The People need to do everything possible to insist that elections are fair and votes are counted properly. Besides the possibility of a court order on the side of a fair vote count there is a serious effort underway by Citizens For a Fair Vote Count and the “Vote In Sunshine Project” to conduct a “Citizens’ Exit Poll” that would include a signed, notarized affidavit by the voter stating who he/she voted for. For more information about the Citizens’ Exit Poll go to www.votefraud.org.

The Iowa Republican Party can be expected to resist this “open and honest vote count” process at the Straw Poll. Therefore, Citizens For a Fair Vote Count urgently needs 200 volunteers to help conduct the double-check on the easily rigged Diebold machines at Ames this Saturday (August 11, 2007), and they need some funds for the printing of “exit poll” pamphlets, signs and paper ballots and the tents. There will also be filing fees and other costs associated with any legal action. Please volunteer and/or contribute to help us accomplish this vital step for honest elections everywhere. A breakthrough is needed now.

NOTE: Whatever gets painted on the canvas of history depends on the people we see when we look into the mirror.
Here is what you can do:

1. If you live in Iowa, make sure you are in Ames next Saturday to VOTE. Talk to your friends and relatives; pool your money and car pool. How or whether you are registered to vote makes no difference. All you need is proof that you are 18 or over and that you live in Iowa.

2. Whether you live in Iowa or another state, be in Ames next Saturday as a volunteer. To VOLUNTEER, click here.

3. Whether you live in Iowa or another state, and whether or not you are in Ames next Saturday as a volunteer, please
DONATE money to cover expenses.

To donate to the Citizens for a Fair Vote Count “Vote in Sunshine” effort at the Ames, Iowa Straw poll: go to www.PayPal.com , hit the tab that says: “Send Money”, then send to: action@networkamerica.org.
You will have the option to use VISA, MASTERCARD, AMEX, etc.

OR by sending a check/money order to:
Network America, PO Box 11555, Cincinnati, Ohio 45211

To donate to the WTP Foundation, please click here: Donation.

4. Whether or not you live in Iowa and you would like to SHARE A RIDE with someone else to Ames, click here.
(You will be directed to the volunteer page)

5. If you do not live in Iowa, but you know people who do, let them know how important it is for them to vote in the Ames Straw Poll. FORWARD THIS MESSAGE!

[Nash]

I hope they ended up doing this myself.

And for all of those worried about "offending" the GOP, go back to supporting Ron Paul the best way you know how and get out of the way of those who are trying to insure your support counts for something. They have a right to do this and they have good reason to do this. You should be thankful people are out there sticking their necks out and taking the heat and trying to take back your most basic rights.

I really get sick of clueless people trying to stop those who have a fricken clue.



I think it's fantastic that this is happening and am grateful that there are organizations out there that are looking to ensure that stuff like this has oversight. At the very least you are getting the word out that this type of stuff can happen.

However, to attach Ron Paul's name to it, when he is in fact participating in the event himself makes him look like a hypocrite. If he feels the vote tallies are corrupt then he probably shouldn't be participating in the event at all. If he does participate and complains about the outcome it just looks like sour grapes. Electorates absolutely hate that.

So I echo what others have said: I have no problem with this organization doing what they feel they need to do and in fact I support the movement in general, but Ron Paul isn't campaigning on this and that's not a tenet of his campaign message and to intertwine the two is not fair to national. It might be "the right thing to do" but unfortunately in the eyes of the public it comes off as "bitter".

I'm irritated that Condit was on Mickelson's show as a Ron Paul supporter instead of a "concerned citizen". Keep the issues separate please if you aren't already doing so (I know most of you are).

[RPR-omaha]

Dude this is idiotic. If you had a problem with the straw poll you should have sued when they first went to diebolds. Doing it now makes you look like a moron. People need to quit their bitching. Ron Paul is the only canidate that has the money to survive a poor showing. Too many people on this forum enjoy thinking everyone is out to get them. Like the last poster said chill. If you can't do that then smoke a bowl so you can relax. People need to quit wasting their time on this crap and actually work to help Ron Paul get in office.

[CurtisLow]

We all know Ron Paul is leading the pack!
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7886/ronpaulracedeesmf3.jpg

[dmitchell]

New article about this in the Des Moines Register.

Straw-poll voting looks secure. But the caucuses? (http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/OPINION01/708090364/-1/NEWS04)


There's a spat brewing inside the Iowa Republican Party over the counting of results in Saturday's straw poll in Ames.

Some Ron Paul supporters are worried that the count won't be honest and that results could be hacked or manipulated so their guy shows poorly.

Bring up the "Twilight Zone" music here. State GOP officials say some of these folks are paranoid. They say Paul is probably going to do poorly on his own, and the complaints are just an attempt to discredit and cloud what is likely to be a crummy finish.

Ames Straw Poll Gets Legal Challenge (http://www.kcci.com/politics/13851881/detail.html)


This weekend's Republican Straw poll is being challenged.

That comes from a national group that is threatening legal action over the voting machines that the Republican Party of Iowa is using.

A supporter of Republican candidate Ron Paul, who is not connected to the campaign, made the legal threat, NewsChannel 8 reported.

Paul said he doesn't know anything about a possible lawsuit and would not want one if it's frivolous.

"Everyone wants an honest election. So if there's a question, this is the time the question should be asked," Paul said.

This is very embarrassing.

[FluffyUnbound]

There's probably no need for anyone to try to fudge the straw poll results now, because this new lawsuit makes everyone supporting Ron Paul look so ridiculous that the campaign is now probably screwed with the Iowans who will be doing the voting anyway.

All this "Oh noes Itz da Dieboldz!" crap costs you more votes than would ever be stolen.

[Sematary]

There's probably no need for anyone to try to fudge the straw poll results now, because this new lawsuit makes everyone supporting Ron Paul look so ridiculous that the campaign is now probably screwed with the Iowans who will be doing the voting anyway.

All this "Oh noes Itz da Dieboldz!" crap costs you more votes than would ever be stolen.

After having read a couple of the stories in this "newspaper" I wouldn't take it seriously even if I did read it. They obviously have zero credibility as a newspaper because they can't even get the simplest of facts straight. Either way, After watching the Fairfield video, I can safely say that anyone who truly supports what Ron Paul has to say is going to be swayed by this nonsense.

[MozoVote]

Doing this two months ago would have made sense. Filing this case now just makes the petitioners look unreasonable. Getting the clear boxes, the ropes, organizing the tables, etc will take more than 2 days so effectively it is like asking the straw poll date to be changed (something which would be very expensive for vendors and merchants who have planned around the August 11 date).

I suspect the (local) judge will not make any injunction to delay the poll to allow for changes. He'll tell the petitioners they need evidence of wrongdoing afterwards.

[Johnnybags]

Doing this two months ago would have made sense. Filing this case now just makes the petitioners look unreasonable. Getting the clear boxes, the ropes, organizing the tables, etc will take more than 2 days so effectively it is like asking the straw poll date to be changed (something which would be very expensive for vendors and merchants who have planned around the August 11 date).

I suspect the (local) judge will not make any injuction to delay the poll to allow for changes. He'll tell the petitioners they need evidence of wrongdoing afterwards.

at this point, and all you need to know about support is how many people Ron draws and how loud his message resonates. He will get more than the 2 percent the "polls" are reporting. I think its going to be his day to win em over since very few know him. Its a beginning of real cash coming in. Thats the battle to stay in, not some bought straw poll for Mitt although I would love it if Mitts vote is spread around to Huckabee,Paul,Tancredo and Brownback to dilute his money machine. If he wins by single digits its Mitts failure that will be the headlines.

[CasualApathy]

bump

[jmdrake]

We should keep this in perspective. Ron Paul's campaign will certainly get a bump if it does well. But it won't die if it doesn't. Remember this straw poll is basically a fund raiser for the republican party in Iowa. How many independents are really going to vote in it anyway? That opposed to independents and frustrated democrats who may jump ship and vote for Dr. Paul in the actual caucuses.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[ARealConservative]

at this point, and all you need to know about support is how many people Ron draws and how loud his message resonates. He will get more than the 2 percent the "polls" are reporting. I think its going to be his day to win em over since very few know him. Its a beginning of real cash coming in. Thats the battle to stay in, not some bought straw poll for Mitt although I would love it if Mitts vote is spread around to Huckabee,Paul,Tancredo and Brownback to dilute his money machine. If he wins by single digits its Mitts failure that will be the headlines.

Has anybody looked over John Cox's issues?

He is Ron Paul on dang near everything except foreign policy. I'm worried that the undecided who like Paul's domestic policy choose Cox based on foreign policy.

http://www.cox2008.com/cox/issues/

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

As has been said here, this has done tremendous damage to the campaign.

I don't know if y'all are too young, too naive, or too caught up in paranoia to understand just what Ron Paul is trying to do here. He is trying to win the nomination of the REPUBLICAN PARTY. You don't piss off the people you are trying to reach. What does the CONSERVATIVE who's on the fence between Tancredo and Paul think of this when he reads it? What does the economic libertarian who might not be 100% against the war who's undecided think?

You have to be a little more politically savvy here, folks. Not everyone who's going to vote Paul is 100% in lockstep with him. You start to piss off Republicans who agree with Paul on most issues, you give Tancredo all those votes.

There are places to fight this battle without making it public BEFORE any primary takes place. Will you just please let the process move forward and work on getting DELEGATES pledged to Paul, PLEASE!

Libertarians and cross-over Democrats aren't going to give Paul the nomination. You are deluding yourselves if you think he can run a viable third-party campaign. Don't piss off people that are potential voters.

[mport1]

New article about this in the Des Moines Register.

Straw-poll voting looks secure. But the caucuses? (http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/OPINION01/708090364/-1/NEWS04)



Ames Straw Poll Gets Legal Challenge (http://www.kcci.com/politics/13851881/detail.html)



This is very embarrassing.

Holy shit! I am so pissed off. This nonsense never stops. Stop the conspiracy theories, you guys are destroying the campaign. Every day there is some kind of new trouble being stirred up because of stuff like this. I am so fed up with this shit. I would rather you guys just sit on the sidelines than do counterproductive stuff like this. Sorry, need to calm down but my blood is boiling.

Why don't you guys just stop and focus on the real issues? Something we can all agree on, and the only thing we should focus on if we want Ron to get elected.

[dmitchell]

GOP works to secure straw poll (http://www.qctimes.com/news/elections/doc46ba9133b39b2373106164.txt)


The party says its unofficial, nonbinding straw poll will accurately reflect attendees' presidential preferences, at least on one hot day in August. Campaigns spending mountains of cash to win the poll and boost their hopes of winning the real Iowa caucuses are banking on it.

"It is very important, that's why we've gone to all these extremes," said Chuck Laudner, executive director of the Republican Party of Iowa. "We're spending thousands and thousands of dollars to put in all these levels of security."

But questions are being raised, particularly by supporters of Republican presidential hopeful Ron Paul, about the party's plan to use optical-scan voting machines manufactured by Diebold Election Systems. Voting machines manufactured by the company have come under fire after California researchers found they might be vulnerable to computer hackers.

Although some of Paul's most vocal supporters are taking to radio call-in shows and online blogs to cry fraud, his campaign is not sounding alarm bells.

No other campaigns have raised concerns about the voting process.

"We don't have huge concerns," said Jesse Benton, communications director for the Paul campaign.

He said Paul backers want a hand-count of paper ballots to confirm the machine count.

"We're just asking for transparency to make sure there's fairness in this whole voting process," Benton said.

Laudner insisted that the Diebold machines being used at the straw poll to scan ballots are not the same machines sparking controversy in Florida, California and elsewhere. He said the devices will not be hooked to a network, so hacking would not be a threat to the straw poll.

He also said there will be transparency. Representatives of each candidate will be allowed to monitor voting and vote-counting. Counting will be overseen by auditors and not the party.

"This fear factor they’re trying to spread is ridiculous," Laudner said.

[Shink]

Holy shit! I am so pissed off. This nonsense never stops. Stop the conspiracy theories, you guys are destroying the campaign. Every day there is some kind of new trouble being stirred up because of stuff like this. I am so fed up with this shit. I would rather you guys just sit on the sidelines than do counterproductive stuff like this. Sorry, need to calm down but my blood is boiling.

Why don't you guys just stop and focus on the real issues? Something we can all agree on, and the only thing we should focus on if we want Ron to get elected.

Raising a fuss over the machines to anyone other than the campaign may be a bad idea, but couldn't we all agree that we want the votes counted fairly and securely? There's a difference between wanting a fair count and trumpeting that it's guaranteed to be rigged.

[DeadheadForPaul]

As has been said here, this has done tremendous damage to the campaign.

I don't know if y'all are too young, too naive, or too caught up in paranoia to understand just what Ron Paul is trying to do here. He is trying to win the nomination of the REPUBLICAN PARTY. You don't piss off the people you are trying to reach. What does the CONSERVATIVE who's on the fence between Tancredo and Paul think of this when he reads it? What does the economic libertarian who might not be 100% against the war who's undecided think?

You have to be a little more politically savvy here, folks. Not everyone who's going to vote Paul is 100% in lockstep with him. You start to piss off Republicans who agree with Paul on most issues, you give Tancredo all those votes.

There are places to fight this battle without making it public BEFORE any primary takes place. Will you just please let the process move forward and work on getting DELEGATES pledged to Paul, PLEASE!

Libertarians and cross-over Democrats aren't going to give Paul the nomination. You are deluding yourselves if you think he can run a viable third-party campaign. Don't piss off people that are potential voters.

I dont think some of the people "on" the Paul campaign give a shit if he wins or loses. I'm furious. This paranoid "the illuminatiz are out to getz me" screaming, irrational bullshit is destroying this campaign. Maybe it makes sense in Alex Jones land but for 99.9% of the American public, you people look like lunatics. I've already had 3 different people ask me now about why Ron Paul wants to stop the Iowa Straw Poll.

Honestly, up front: shut the fuck up and get Paul elected

[nexalacer]

If you want to crusade about Debloid or Any Conspiracy theories - No matter how true you think they are:

Do NOT attach the Ron Paul Brand to it.


qft.

[mport1]

I dont think some of the people "on" the Paul campaign give a shit if he wins or loses. I'm furious. This paranoid "the illuminatiz are out to getz me" screaming, irrational bullshit is destroying this campaign. Maybe it makes sense in Alex Jones land but for 99.9% of the American public, you people look like lunatics. I've already had 3 different people ask me now about why Ron Paul wants to stop the Iowa Straw Poll.

Honestly, up front: shut the fuck up and get Paul elected

Seconded.