Convention in 4th Place vs Independent Run?

[dircha]

Based on what happened in WV, we already know that the Huckabee camp would cut a backroom deal to throw his support behind McCain at the convention in a bid for Vice President if it were even necessary, and there is nothing we can do about it.

What point, then, would there be to Paul staying in this thing? Anyone?

I think Paul could do very well in a Clinton vs McCain general election as an independent, and he has got to be thinking the same.

He would be the only anti-war vote.

[EvilEngineer]

We'd still run into the media black out problem

[ForrestLayne]

I just read this on another forum...

"In May of 1860, the votes of 233 delegates were required to win the Republican nomination. Abraham Lincoln arrived at that convention starting only with the support of the 22 delegates from Illinois. He went on to win the nomination."

This is why a brokered convention is so important! Abraham Lincoln won with less than 10% of the delegates to start off.

it can be done

[ArrestPoliticians]

I say to hell with it, lets just do the independent run. We have the infrastructure(17k precinct leaders, 100k meetup members, 1500 meetups), we have some money, I say SCREW THEM and we run third party, unless Bloomberg runs. I think we have a shot at winning, I really do. He can run Constitution Party and get on all the ballots.

The only problem with this is if its Hillary/Mccain, Bloomberg will run. If either Obama or Romney wins, RP should run.

[Shink]

We'd still run into the media black out problem

I think the real focus now should be keeping this movement from disbanding. NWO got the job done on the (s)election.

[nullvalu]

I think the real focus now should be keeping this movement from disbanding. NWO got the job done on the (s)election.

How's this for a concept for everyone then? Quit playing Armchair Campaign Manager, and just wait to see what Ron Paul decides to do!!

[ForLibertyFight]

I say to hell with it, lets just do the independent run. We have the infrastructure(17k precinct leaders, 100k meetup members, 1500 meetups), we have some money, I say SCREW THEM and we run third party, unless Bloomberg runs. I think we have a shot at winning, I really do. He can run Constitution Party and get on all the ballots.

The only problem with this is if its Hillary/Mccain, Bloomberg will run. If either Obama or Romney wins, RP should run.

Paul/Bloomberg ticket anyone?

[IDefendThePlatform]

How's this for a concept for everyone then? Quit playing Armchair Campaign Manager, and just wait to see what Ron Paul decides to do!!

Ron has said he will stay in the race as long as his supporters continue to be enthusiastic and want him in it. I would like to convince others on this forum to get excited about an indy run (as I am) and hopefully contribute to convincing RP to run.

Also, I am writing off the animosity in this thread and others as the result of frustration from our single digit results today. I still love you all.

[Feelgood]

Enough of the independent talk already, it isnt going to happen. :rolleyes:

[Jeremy]

We'd still run into the media black out problem

I know Glenn Beck has said he'd have Paul on his show if he ran independent. And he was VERY serious. Others would probably do the same (Tucker?).

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

Independent run is the only option now. Don't give up on Ron just because the stupid-ass GOP rejected him. They are a failed party going down the tubes.

It's Ron to the White House or bust.

[Feelgood]

ArrestPoliticians ==> added to ignore list

Please stop the third party talk. It is not going to happen...

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

ArrestPoliticians ==> added to ignore list

Please stop the third party talk. It is not going to happen...

No, you stop trolling, god dammit. :mad:

Indy run is all we have left, so if you're not down for it, then LEAVE.

[derekjohnson]

You never know what could happen...Rush Coulter and the rest of the conservative talking heads have already said McCain isn't conservative enough. Many Obama supporters out there refuse to vote for Hillary. Huckabee and Obama both do very well with younger voters, who may consider switching to Paul if their candidate isn't an option. If it is Hillary and McCain, Paul could make a respectable showing as a third party candidate.

[dreicher]

Sorry, but it's time to go independent or 3rd party. Republicans are lost and won't be finding their way back any time soon. RP is a bright light trying to shine in a black hole.

Call me a troll if you want, but here goes...

Ron Paul should just say "to hell with it" and run outside the 2-parties. He has a strong base of support already and can spend the next 4 months banking his money for a run. Based on tonight, McCain, Romney and Huck are all going to be in until the convention and who needs that noise. He's not going to break out (the MSM won't let it happen) and he's not going to win the convention (sorry, but the Old Republican Guard will obviously foist any warm body up to see that doesn't happen).

There are a TON of people outside the 2-party system that would love a third option, and - quite frankly - when the smoke clears there are going to be a lot of people in their parties that feel as though they got screwed and could defect. Instead of trying to convince the hardest-headed 30% of the populace - let's go after the 70% who we can get to.

Here is all I need to know:

1. Will Ron consider an independent run if he has the support?
2. How much will it cost (broken down by month from here to November) to make it happen?
3. What needs to be in place by when to see that he is on every ballot?

Dr. Paul, you have a platform that appeals to a massive number of people. You have a legion of supporters that will work together to bring your voice to an audience that will appreciate and accept it. Your key policies are supported by more than 70% of Americans - let us focus on turning them into believers and let the other idiots clamor for the 30% they already have.

Dr. Paul - please reconsider an outside run for the White House. I know it is a lot to ask of you, but your country needs you now more than ever - even if they don't yet recognize it. I will support you until November either way, but I ask you to give us supporters the tools we need (put every American in play) so that we can watch you be sworn in next January. We can do this. We will do this.

[Brian4Liberty]

I say SCREW THEM and we run third party, unless Bloomberg runs.
...
The only problem with this is if its Hillary/Mccain, Bloomberg will run.

Lol! Bloomberg was the anti-Paul. His hints at running were meant to counter Paul. If it's Hillary and McCain, there isn't a chance in hell of Bloomberg running. He's with them.

[AlexMerced]

I would say the best bet to take over the legislative branch... http://www.libertywarchest.com

a indpendant run would be fun and all... but it'd distract us from out legislative runs and we'll end up with no offices.

[dreicher]

I would say the best bet to take over the legislative branch... http://www.libertywarchest.com

a indpendant run would be fun and all... but it'd distract us from out legislative runs and we'll end up with no offices.

Not if we won. Then we'd have 1, but a pretty freakin' big 1.

[IDefendThePlatform]

I would say the best bet to take over the legislative branch... http://www.libertywarchest.com

a indpendant run would be fun and all... but it'd distract us from out legislative runs and we'll end up with no offices.

That's a good point about not losing focus on the legislature, but the whole reason any of us are here now is because of this presidential campaign. Think how many more we could recruit to our cause with 8 more months of indy campaigning. I really think an RP independent run would help pro-liberty republicans running for other offices more than anything. RP exposes thousands to the ideas of liberty every extra day he is in the race. Just my opinion.

[crazyfingers]

Ron has said that he will not make a 3rd party/independent run. "I'm ruling it out" and "not gonna happen" were his exact words. He is not going to give up his seat in Congress for an independent run which is doomed from the start. Some people here have the right idea. We need to use the excitement this campaign has generated to build a powerful, long-lasting grassroots movement. If we all pull together, we can get enough liberty-minded people into the House and Senate to really make a difference in this country. I suspect RP will provide some direction but it will be left largely up to us.

[BigRedBrent]

I know Glenn Beck has said he'd have Paul on his show if he ran independent. And he was VERY serious. Others would probably do the same (Tucker?).

He already had him on his show. A lot of good it did him. Anyone who thinks he would get any better media coverage if he ran as independent should think again.

The biggest thing that the media does for a candidate is to show clips of them all the time and talk favorably of them all the time. Putting them on shows does not help a fraction as much since a lot of people will not even listen to them talk. Ron Paul will never get a fraction of this that the other candidates do.

Just keep trying to get people to watch the movie "America: Freedom to Fascism". It works and I would bet a very large portion of the first supporters had watched that movie. Once you are educated you know something must be done about all of this.

[colecrowe]

SPREAD IT FAR AND WIDE (indy run bomb) - www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com: (http://www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com/) http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=113132

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

Get ready for the independent run!!

It's the White House or bust!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BigRedBrent]

Stop with the indy crap. If Paul decides to do that I will back him, but he has very good reason not to. First of all you will still get the "I am not going to wast my vote" bull crap from a ton of people who think an independent will never be able to win anyway. Second, a brokered convention may still be a possibility and our best shot. If that fails then we can think about independent. But until one of those things happens please give this crap a rest. Please!

[scandinaviany3]

Strange thing about a convention...you never know what is going to happen.

You never know what is going to happen between now and then.

And you make the most important thing happen. You connect with all of america between now and then for future republican or independent runs of the movements.

The last reason alone is why Dr. Paul should go all the way to convention even if he gets no more advertisements.

He has gotten quite a few seconds whereever he campaigned smarterly and hit the issues, etc.

But this movement is just warming up...many things can happen between now and next year.

If Hillary and McCain win we have no choice but to fight to the bitter end and beyond....and we can be sure our army will greatly increase if this happens.

This is not a time to make a perot support group mistake all over again....we are fighting for our country, not just our party.

This fight must go, on and on end on, convention and candidate after candidate

[IDefendThePlatform]

Strange thing about a convention...you never know what is going to happen.

You never know what is going to happen between now and then.

And you make the most important thing happen. You connect with all of america between now and then for future republican or independent runs of the movements.

The last reason alone is why Dr. Paul should go all the way to convention even if he gets no more advertisements.

He has gotten quite a few seconds whereever he campaigned smarterly and hit the issues, etc.

But this movement is just warming up...many things can happen between now and next year.

If Hillary and McCain win we have no choice but to fight to the bitter end and beyond....and we can be sure our army will greatly increase if this happens.

This is not a time to make a perot support group mistake all over again....we are fighting for our country, not just our party.

This fight must go, on and on end on, convention and candidate after candidate


I admit that none of us can predict for sure what would happen at a brokered convention. However, at this point, I feel very safe in saying that no amount of back room dealing will get RP a sniff at the nomination. We are an anti-war campaign running for the nomination of a pro-war party. What would be the justification for taking the nomination from one of the top 3 and giving it to a guy who consistently gets single digit results? I hope I'm wrong.

The other question I keep asking myself is, What message would garner the most attention and support from now until the convention in September:

1) "I'm Ron Paul and I'm running for a nomination that I am almost mathematically eliminated from." (almost no interest from most people)

or

2) "I'm Ron Paul and I've decided to run Independent for President because the two party system has failed." (at least some interest and a new audience to target)

I obviously prefer the latter. Further the cause by striking while the iron is hot (or at least semi-warm).

[ProfNo]

At this point, it is clear to me that the Rep party is beyond saving.

They are warmongers, plan and simple. There is no changing that....

I hoped that Republicans would see the light, see that McCain, Romney and Huck are fake conservatives I will only bring destruction.

I want Ron Paul to keep going, and at this point an independent run seems the only option.

The problem is that the media will never talk about him and ignore him just like they have so far. I don't know how we get past this hurdle...

[literatim]

Ron Paul isn't going to run as an independent nor 3rd party.

[colecrowe]

Stop with the indy crap. If Paul decides to do that I will back him, but he has very good reason not to. First of all you will still get the "I am not going to wast my vote" bull crap from a ton of people who think an independent will never be able to win anyway. Second, a brokered convention may still be a possibility and our best shot. If that fails then we can think about independent. But until one of those things happens please give this crap a rest. Please!

1. A brokered convention is not going to happen.

2. Canvassing is done for in half the states as of now, unless he goes iNDY. If he goes iNDY, on the other hand, we would have 8 months to canvass and get 200,000 plus precinct captains.

3. ...:

my dad said he'd donate another 500 to Paul (IF he announces 3rd party) (he donated 200 on Dec. 16th--but that was when it seemed like he REALLY could maybe, possibly win the Nom. I would donate 500 the day he declares (even though it will hurt financially), whereas I can't afford to give anymore (I gave just over a 1,100 in Q4 to the cause--so shut up) for his Republican run; and gramps would probably wager another 1776.00

The 2nd and 3rd tier, broader-base of supporters aren't (many or most of them) going to donate MORE--if they already have once--because TO THEM it is obvious or at least nearly certain that he's not going to get the Nom from the Republican party (I'm not saying I believe that--but they DO). However, they would be very willing and enthusiastic about supporting him in an iNDEPENDENT run.

[colecrowe]

Ron Paul isn't going to run as an independent nor 3rd party.

that would be the most horrible thing to happen in my lifetime, IF that were true.

But, it's not.


Paul has said repeatedly that he will not run 3rd party. Why would he lie to us like that?

No he hasn't!

He is absolutely right--and honest--to say that he "has no intention of going iNDEPENDENT or Third Party" because, right now (at least before today's results), his only intention is to win the Republican nomination. He 100% fully intends (or intended) to wholeheartedly run and try his best to win as a Republican while he is running as such, and he says so. He has NEVER, EVER said "I will not run iNDY". He has never, ever said "I will never run iNDY". But IF it becomes clear he cannot win the nomination, then he can go independent.

I would be very, very, very sad if he didn't go iNDY. He could win it, especially against Hillary (and she seems like the chosen one (it's all about the superdelegates).

Actually, I will say this... If it appears that the GOP will be utterly, hopelessly lost, as in completely abandoning constitutional and conservative ideals like protection of civil liberties, small, limited government, national sovereignty, and a non-interventionist foreign policy, then maybe Ron Paul and his 10% base that exists now should all sign up under the banner of a new coalition, maybe it could be a party, maybe call it the Conservative Party. That way we go into the contest for the General election with some orginization--and if it catches on maybe it could beat down the Republican Party that so many conservatives are fed up with. Also, any Ron Paul Republicans could join the Conservative Party (or whatever it is) and could run for Congress and state seats under its banner in the upcoming election, especially if they don't make it in their primaries.

We could create "the Conservative party" with our email, fundraising, and canvassing lists--and, of course, with our delegate lists. Although I still don't know if that would be better than iNDY. The reason I say that is because we might alienate the Libertarians and Constitution party folks, whereas we wouldn't if we went iNDY--but they are only like 4% of the voting public if that. "Conservative Party" (or another name possibly) would get us the Buchananites and many others I'm sure.

We WILL win iNDY.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

At this point, it is clear to me that the Rep party is beyond saving.

They are warmongers, plan and simple. There is no changing that....

I hoped that Republicans would see the light, see that McCain, Romney and Huck are fake conservatives I will only bring destruction.

I want Ron Paul to keep going, and at this point an independent run seems the only option.

The problem is that the media will never talk about him and ignore him just like they have so far. I don't know how we get past this hurdle...

Welcome, brother. :)

[colecrowe]

www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com (http://www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com/) <--pledge here.


Face it, the GOP has rejected us. There is no plausible path to the nomination after today, none. The next stage in our ideological struggle to save this country is to undertake an Independent run for the White House. I realize there are a lot of naysayers on this issue. Some people think it's insanely hard to do and that it cannot be done. I submit the following points to argue otherwise. If you agree, please help me spread word about the site and make sure to signup today. :D


Ballot Signatures:
We need to gather about 800,000 signatures nationwide to get on the ballots. We have a wonderful precinct captain system to help accomplish this, and I've read reports that to hire collectors to do the job would cost about 3 million dollars. It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that we cannot collect these signatures.

Sore Loser Laws:
Only four states in the country present possible issues with Sore Loser laws: Texas, Ohio, South Dakota, and Mississippi. There may be legal grounds to dispute these laws. More information here (http://www.ballot-access.org/2007/01/12/sore-loser-laws-dont-generally-apply-to-presidential-candidates/) and here (http://www.ballot-access.org/2007/07/20/do-sore-loser-laws-apply-to-presidential-candidates/)

Votes:
Polling done by Rasmussen a week ago showed that Ron Paul would garner between 7-11% of the vote in four-way matchups that included Bloomberg, Paul, and the GOP/Dem nominees. More info here. (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/will_michael_bloomberg_ron_paul_run_third_party_ca mpaigns_in_2008)

Debates:
Perot got in them before, no reason we cant pull it off as well. If the polling above is true, then the media might actually let us in. Double digit support is the key, and it looks like we might be able to manage that.

A New Era:
We've learned some important lessons and made some mistakes, but the campaign activities have improved at the official level, and the grassroots got their much needed wakeup call that our attention starved methods are not very effective. We still have powerful weapons at our disposal, namely the 24 hour news cycle, new media, high name recognition, record high voter dissatisfaction, etc... Most importantly, we have the winning message and the dedication to spread it. Educating people takes time, we shouldn't give up yet.

..

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

I urge all true Ron Paul supporters to put the www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com URL in their signatures.

[colecrowe]

I urge all true Ron Paul supporters to put the www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com (http://www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com) URL in their signatures.

will do. first time i'll have had a sig.

[flames2dust77]

How's this for a concept for everyone then? Quit playing Armchair Campaign Manager, and just wait to see what Ron Paul decides to do!!

Thank you! Someone who makes some damn sense around here!

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

will do. first time i'll have had a sig.

You are a patriot, sir.

[colecrowe]

You are a patriot, sir.

LOL! for making a sig :)