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View Full Version : it's time to start thinking 3rd party run




sicsempertyrannis
02-05-2008, 07:44 PM
I know many people don't want to hear that but the republicans/media would not let it happen even if had enough support. Plus a 3rd party announcement will create an immediate bump in fund raising

We've fought a helluva fight... and who hear wants to stop now? I surely don't... a 3rd party run will let us fight all the way till the end. Either the libertarian or constitutution party...both have ballot access so it won't be a problem and both parties will support Ron 100%. Let's keep going!

MayTheRonBeWithYou
02-05-2008, 07:45 PM
It would likely be an independent run, not third party. The model to look at is Ross Perot in 1992.

TNFreedom
02-05-2008, 07:50 PM
It would likely be an independent run, not third party. The model to look at is Ross Perot in 1992.


Agreed. If he doesn't do any better than 3-4% in any state tonight then he needs to walk, no since wasting cash for those kind of results. Money would be MUCH better spent gearing up for an independent run. Lots of work to be done, its difficult to get on the ballot in alot of states and very very difficult to get into the debates which would be an absolute must.

MayTheRonBeWithYou
02-05-2008, 07:51 PM
Ron has already said he would take a look at where he stands right after Feb 5.

The fact is, Ron is simply running in the THE WRONG PARTY.

sicsempertyrannis
02-05-2008, 07:52 PM
Much time money and effort will have to be wasted just on ballot access if we run independent. I don't really think Perot is a good model to use either.... he was a billionaire and could buy primetime television slots to get his message out. We can't do that unless I hit the mega millions tonight and Ill buy time myself.

luvthedoc08
02-05-2008, 07:53 PM
so why is it better to run independent then 3rd party?

yanksforpaul
02-05-2008, 07:53 PM
Ron has already said he would take a look at where he stands right after Feb 5.

The fact is, Ron is simply running in the THE WRONG PARTY.

He's running in the wrong country. This one is done.

robert4rp08
02-05-2008, 07:53 PM
RNC or bust.

MayTheRonBeWithYou
02-05-2008, 07:54 PM
Much time money and effort will have to be wasted just on ballot access if we run independent. I don't really think Perot is a good model to use either.... he was a billionaire and could buy primetime television slots to get his message out. We can't do that unless I hit the mega millions tonight and Ill buy time myself.

We have plenty of money and people to get on ballots. Perot already blew down most of the barriers, so it won't be much of a problem getting Ron on the ballots.

Perot only spent about 60 million on his campaign. Ron can easily raise more than that, plus he only needs 15% to get into the debates. Right now, 90% of Americans don't even know who the hell Ron Paul is. So keep your chins up, people.... this is just the beginning!!

TNforPaul45
02-05-2008, 07:56 PM
I am starting to doubt that Paul would do well even in a third party run....Independents have shown one thing in this primary: They're not voting for Paul.

sicsempertyrannis
02-05-2008, 07:56 PM
And nobody wants to quit... so 3rd party run is the only option.

Myerz
02-05-2008, 07:56 PM
Agreed. If he doesn't do any better than 3-4% in any state tonight then he needs to walk, no since wasting cash for those kind of results. Money would be MUCH better spent gearing up for an independent run. Lots of work to be done, its difficult to get on the ballot in alot of states and very very difficult to get into the debates which would be an absolute must.

He's having to fight to just be included in the debates now!

slacker921
02-05-2008, 08:01 PM
"He's running in the wrong country. This one is done." .. not quite yet.. but the people being nominated will seal the deal.

I seriously doubt a 3rd party run would overcome this problem (http://journalism.org/node/9515). I don't mean to be negative, but I don't think the media will allow it to happen no matter what party he runs under. That said.. I'd get behind it and do all I could to help Ron Paul in a run against the media.

And.. I will not vote for any of the other candidates - Republican or Democrat.

colecrowe
02-05-2008, 08:03 PM
Plus a 3rd party announcement will create an immediate bump in fund raising

We've fought a helluva fight... and who hear wants to stop now? I surely don't... a 3rd party run will let us fight all the way till the end. Either the libertarian or constitutution party...both have ballot access so it won't be a problem and both parties will support Ron 100%. Let's keep going!

my dad said he'd donate another 500 to Paul (IF he announces 3rd party) (he donated 200 on Dec. 16th--but that was when it seemed like he REALLY could maybe, possibly win the Nom. I would donate 500 the day he declares (even though it will hurt financially), whereas I can't afford to give anymore (I gave just over a 1,100 in Q4 to the cause--so shut up) for his Republican run; and gramps would probably wager another 1776.00

The 2nd and 3rd tier, broader-base of supporters aren't (many or most of them) going to donate MORE--if they already have once--because TO THEM it is obvious or at least nearly certain that he's not going to get the Nom from the Republican party (I'm not saying I believe that--but they DO). However, they would be very willing and enthusiastic about supporting him in an iNDEPENDENT run.

IF he doesn't do well enough in the next month or two, and then makes the calculated decision to run iNDY, and then declares say in March, and starts campaigning and runs a couple infomercials to pique some interest (emphasised because it's the most essential part), we could pick one perfect day, and make sure to have two months to plan it--and do everything in our power to make it better and bigger than the Tea Party. Independence Day would make so much sense--the country could declare it's independence from the parties, the special interests and lobbyists, the IRS, the Bankers, the Bush war and the Bush and McCain shamnesty, and the tax and spend Democrats--and we'd have 3 or however many months to prepare for it and drum up support. We could set a goal of 25 million in one day, and hope to shatter it. And then Ron Paul would have July, August, September, and October to spend it and raise more all along--while all along, for those 4 plus months, we could fill every precinct captain position and canvass and call every house--while Iraq continues exploding and the economy collapses.

MayTheRonBeWithYou
02-05-2008, 08:03 PM
"He's running in the wrong country. This one is done." .. not quite yet.. but the people being nominated will seal the deal.

I seriously doubt a 3rd party run would overcome this problem (http://journalism.org/node/9515). I don't mean to be negative, but I don't think the media will allow it to happen no matter what party he runs under. That said.. I'd get behind it and do all I could to help Ron Paul in a run against the media.

Part of the media blackout is our own fault. Ron has been doing TERRIBLE in the primaries, so his coverage goes away. Trust me, if Ron would have won NH or SC, he would be on the cover of every magazine in the country. The real problem is the GOP. Ron is simply in the wrong party. The GOP is lost, and they reject his antiwar and pro-liberty views.

colecrowe
02-05-2008, 08:07 PM
He is absolutely right--and honest--to say that he "has no intention of going iNDEPENDENT or Third Party" because, right now (at least before today's results), his only intention is to win the Republican nomination. He 100% fully intends (or intended) to wholeheartedly run and try his best to win as a Republican while he is running as such, and he says so. He has NEVER, EVER said "I will not run iNDY". He has never, ever said "I will never run iNDY". But IF it becomes clear he cannot win the nomination, then he can go independent.

I would be very, very, very sad if he didn't go iNDY. He could win it, especially against Hillary (and she seems like the chosen one (it's all about the superdelegates).

But I wish everyone would stop always saying Third Party. Just say iNDEPENDENT. I think that it would be horrible to go third party. He has to go independent (unaffiliated). Maybe people disagree with me? But if he went Lib. he couldn't get more than 5-10% guaranteed because 90% of voters would think they could never vote Libertarian--can anyone say repeal drug laws, abolish social security, and open borders? He could maybe get 10-15% if he went Constitution Party. But Independent he could win it--especially against Hillary and McCain.

********

Actually, I will say this... If it appears that the GOP will be utterly, hopelessly lost, as in completely abandoning constitutional and conservative ideals like protection of civil liberties, small, limited government, national sovereignty, and a non-interventionist foreign policy, then maybe Ron Paul and his 10% base that exists now should all sign up under the banner of a new coalition, maybe it could be a party, maybe call it the Conservative Party. That way we go into the contest for the General election with some orginization--and if it catches on maybe it could beat down the Republican Party that so many conservatives are fed up with. Also, any Ron Paul Republicans could join the Conservative Party (or whatever it is) and could run for Congress and state seats under its banner in the upcoming election, especially if they don't make it in their primaries.

ruggedindividualist
02-05-2008, 08:08 PM
I agree with you folks. I don't know if he needs to go 3rd party or independent but he is not getting much benefit anymore from running as a Republican. They are making him look like a loser and harming more than the few shreds of publicity are worth. He ought to announce it giving the story to "The American Conservative" Magazine to break and the campaign needs to plan on being ignored by the Old Media. Supporters are going to have to teach and spread the message door to door since the MSM is sandbagging and the GOP is cheating him. RP has a lot of supporters. We will all have to be the media. Too bad the churches are so nondiscerning. It would be great to have the churches spread the word like Mel Gibsons "Passion" internet-grassroots marketing. People are just dumbed down, an awful lot just don't "get it". They think "liberty" is what we're spreading in Iraq. Who in their right mind could vote for plainly insane McCain??

Devil_rules_in_extremes
02-05-2008, 08:10 PM
I know many people don't want to hear that but the republicans/media would not let it happen even if had enough support. Plus a 3rd party announcement will create an immediate bump in fund raising

We've fought a helluva fight... and who hear wants to stop now? I surely don't... a 3rd party run will let us fight all the way till the end. Either the libertarian or constitutution party...both have ballot access so it won't be a problem and both parties will support Ron 100%. Let's keep going!

How is a 3rd party run going to stop the media blackout? They will ignore Ron Paul and his message EVEN MORE if he runs 3rd party. This is where the problem lyes. In the Corporate Media.

Cleaner44
02-05-2008, 08:11 PM
I am starting to doubt that Paul would do well even in a third party run....Independents have shown one thing in this primary: They're not voting for Paul.

Uh, they can't in most primaries, remember?

Cleaner44
02-05-2008, 08:11 PM
How is a 3rd party run going to stop the media blackout? They will ignore Ron Paul and his message EVEN MORE if he runs 3rd party. This is where the problem lyes. In the Corporate Media.

Exactly.

familydog
02-05-2008, 08:12 PM
so why is it better to run independent then 3rd party?

Because Ross Perot did it, duh!

ceakins
02-05-2008, 08:15 PM
What the fuck is wrong with you people, it's not even over yet. It aint over till the fat republican sings.

Andrew76
02-05-2008, 08:16 PM
Yes, I disagree as well. He's struggling now as it is, getting shafted at the debates, getting scammed in Louisiana and other places I'm sure and wildly ignored by the MSM. If this doesn't work out, and it's admittedly MORE costly to run as an independent - frankly, I think the writing is on the wall. It won't happen.

In the meantime, I'm trying not to vomit on myself as I see state after state voting for McCain. What is wrong with people? "We've had enough of Bush Jr., so we'll elect someone just as stupid as him, but more cynical, condescending and evil." He is a horrible man. If your friends are voting for this man, reconsider who you're friends with.

fj45lvr
02-05-2008, 08:21 PM
don't give up his congressional seat with 3rd party which he won't win anyhow.

vote for Constitution party candidate if you are conservative on immigration and liberty for all humans.

BarryDonegan
02-05-2008, 08:23 PM
you're wrong in saying that independents voted for so-and-so.

the majority of americans have not voted, and will not vote.

those are true independants, and they can be lead to vote for anyone.

RlxdN10sity
02-05-2008, 08:24 PM
I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sick of hearing this crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The one thing I know is gonna happen every time RP is interviewed is the person asking questions is gonna say " do you plan to run 3rd party?", and that is my cue to puke. Then I come on the site that is supposed to be the heart of RP support and I see a freakin thread titled " Its time to start thinking 3rd party run." Well I tell ya what time it is. It is time for all you 3rd party run freaks to get the hell off the f@*#ing internet and hit the streets to get the message out. It ain't time to run 3rd party until the Doc. says its time, and guess what, he's sayin GOP convention or bust! So get up and make it happen or get the @$*k out of the way.

Joseph Hart
02-05-2008, 08:26 PM
If he decides to run Independent then maybe Lou Dobbs will listen more.

Minuteman
02-05-2008, 08:27 PM
Thinking about it lately. If it comes down to McCain/Hillary, I really think we might have a good shot on a 3rd party run

colecrowe
02-05-2008, 08:27 PM
I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sick of hearing this crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The one thing I know is gonna happen every time RP is interviewed is the person asking questions is gonna say " do you plan to run 3rd party?", and that is my cue to puke. Then I come on the site that is supposed to be the heart of RP support and I see a freakin thread titled " Its time to start thinking 3rd party run." Well I tell ya what time it is. It is time for all you 3rd party run freaks to get the hell off the f@*#ing internet and hit the streets to get the message out. It ain't time to run 3rd party until the Doc. says its time, and guess what, he's sayin GOP convention or bust! So get up and make it happen or get the @$*k out of the way.

Sounds like you need to reread your tagline

Nobody is going to stop canvassing--no matter what. But almost everyone is hoping that if it becomes clear that he obviously can't get the Nom., he will go iNDY.

All I hear is yelling, and all I see is willful blindness, from the anti-iNDY folks.

Keep yelling. We however are hopeful for a Ron Paul whitehouse. We don't care if it is w/ out the GOP.

expatriot
02-05-2008, 08:30 PM
An independent run is virtually impossible.
The ballot access battle is ridiculously difficult and would never happen
if Ron Paul tried to go independent.

With the sheer numbers of grassroots supporters already keyed in
the feasibility of undercutting the MSM stranglehold in the general election exists.
The organization does not cease to exist - who wants to abandon hope?
Not while we are still organized - that would be nuts.
Let us keep this thing together - no matter what.

The biggest part of making a third-party run is already in place.

The only realistic choice is to go with the Libertarian Party.

I won't vote for anyone but Ron Paul, no matter what happens.

But all this is still premature - let's wait for the results.
It is only a few hours until all the rest of the cards are on the table.

IDefendThePlatform
02-05-2008, 08:31 PM
I support an RP independent run. McCain + Huckabee pooling their delegates at the convention pretty much seals our fate. I think we can accomlish a lot more with 8 months of independent campaigning than slugging along to a convention where we have almost no chance of winning at this point.

Feelgood
02-05-2008, 08:34 PM
I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sick of hearing this crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The one thing I know is gonna happen every time RP is interviewed is the person asking questions is gonna say " do you plan to run 3rd party?", and that is my cue to puke. Then I come on the site that is supposed to be the heart of RP support and I see a freakin thread titled " Its time to start thinking 3rd party run." Well I tell ya what time it is. It is time for all you 3rd party run freaks to get the hell off the f@*#ing internet and hit the streets to get the message out. It ain't time to run 3rd party until the Doc. says its time, and guess what, he's sayin GOP convention or bust! So get up and make it happen or get the @$*k out of the way.

Agreed. My advice, do as I do, add these defeatist talkers to your ignore list. I did, nearly half of this thread, I never saw. Either these people were already on my ignore list, or have just been added. As is now, the original author of this thread. Put them on ignore. Eventually they will only be talking to themselves, and maybe then they will just go away...

HippyInASuit
02-05-2008, 08:35 PM
Keep dreaming! Unfortunately we do not have enough money for a 3rd party candidacy :(

colecrowe
02-05-2008, 08:35 PM
Yeah--we couldn't get on the ballots WITH SEVEN MONTHS TO DO SO?! Whatever. What a bunch of crap. How the F did Perot do it? We have way more grassroots than he did. And DON'T SAY, "With his billions." He spent 65 million--look on wikipedia. What cost $65000000 in 1990 would cost $107,402,877.98 in 2007. source: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi


You know what's really "never gonna happen"? The Republican nomination. So for people that want ONE THING and one thing only--Ron Paul to be in the whitehouse--an iNDY run must be discussed. For all you that care more about "changing the GOP", fine--you can continue to argue your point that that would be better than a Ron Paul win in the General.


An independent run is virtually impossible.
The ballot access battle is ridiculously difficult and would never happen
if Ron Paul tried to go independent.

With the sheer numbers of grassroots supporters already keyed in
the feasibility of undercutting the MSM stranglehold in the general election exists.
The organization does not cease to exist - who wants to abandon hope?
Not while we are still organized - that would be nuts.
Let us keep this thing together - no matter what.

The biggest part of making a third-party run is already in place.

The only realistic choice is to go with the Libertarian Party.

I won't vote for anyone but Ron Paul, no matter what happens.

But all this is still premature - let's wait for the results.
It is only a few hours until all the rest of the cards are on the table.

Diana
02-05-2008, 08:35 PM
I initially read the title as "time to start drinking" heh, not a bad idea! :p

Feelgood
02-05-2008, 08:36 PM
Thinking about it lately. If it comes down to McCain/Hillary, I really think we might have a good shot on a 3rd party run

No, actually he wont. It is either Republican nomination, or not at all. Stop kidding yourself. :rolleyes:

Johnnybags
02-05-2008, 08:41 PM
It started as a McCain/Clinton dog and pony show 2 years ago and thats where it ends, the only choice for Paul was and is as an independent/third party. See all the free air time McCain got to rise from the dead? Maybe after his book comes out Ron will change his mind. If he wants to be president. Americans will have to be homeless and eating government cheese before they stop listenng to the boob tube tell em who to vote for. Never understimate the lack of intelligence of the American voter. I talked to one kid today that said he cannot vote for Paul because he will tax us to death? I just shook my head. People are dumb folks.

IDefendThePlatform
02-05-2008, 08:42 PM
Yeah--we couldn't get on the ballots WITH SEVEN MONTHS TO DO SO?! Whatever. What a bunch of crap. How the F did Perot do it? We have way more grassroots than he did. And DON'T SAY, "With his billions." He spent 65 million--look on wikipedia. What cost $65000000 in 1990 would cost $107,402,877.98 in 2007. source: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi


You know what's really "never gonna happen"? The Republican nomination. So for people that want ONE THING and one thing only--Ron Paul to be in the whitehouse--an iNDY run must be discussed. For all you that care more about "changing the GOP", fine--you can continue to argue your point that that would be better than a Ron Paul win in the General.

Right on the money. Plus, going out and getting the signatures is an excellent excuse to introduce RP to a lot of people.

Soccrmastr
02-05-2008, 08:44 PM
You guys are fucking idiots. Still about half the states to go, and we havent even had the convention yet. Why run independent? Fucking retard OP.

FluffyUnbound
02-05-2008, 08:49 PM
You guys are fucking idiots. Still about half the states to go, and we havent even had the convention yet. Why run independent? Fucking retard OP.

Well, if you wait until the GOP convention in the summer, it's too late to go third party after that.

As a practical matter, Ron has to make a decision by April 1. That would give him time to get the LPA nomination [which he could secure without a lot of effort, but which has to get done by May] and to get on the ballot in the states the LPA doesn't cover.

It's fine to campaign hard for the GOP nod because that introduces voters to Paul and lays the groundwork for later.

No independent candidate in my lifetime had 17000 precinct captains in February. No independent candidate in my lifetime had the fundraising capacity Ron has [other than Perot who had his own dough.]

TNFreedom
02-05-2008, 08:54 PM
I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sick of hearing this crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The one thing I know is gonna happen every time RP is interviewed is the person asking questions is gonna say " do you plan to run 3rd party?", and that is my cue to puke. Then I come on the site that is supposed to be the heart of RP support and I see a freakin thread titled " Its time to start thinking 3rd party run." Well I tell ya what time it is. It is time for all you 3rd party run freaks to get the hell off the f@*#ing internet and hit the streets to get the message out. It ain't time to run 3rd party until the Doc. says its time, and guess what, he's sayin GOP convention or bust! So get up and make it happen or get the @$*k out of the way.

I was drawn to Ron Paul because I have never seen or heard a more logical, grounded politician or leader. The people who introduced me to Ron Paul got my ear because of their logical and grounded way of talking about the issues. When I hear you people revolt over talk of an independent run I scratch my head and wonder why we like the same candidate. To continue spending money pursuing the Republican nomination would be totally illogical and ridiculous at this point. An independent or third party run is the only logical option now. We still have a boat load of cash and an independent run would reengerize all of us and likely get the money and support pouring back in. We would have seven months to make some magic happen and I think we could do it.

armand61685
02-05-2008, 08:55 PM
Ron has already said he would take a look at where he stands right after Feb 5.

The fact is, Ron is simply running in the THE WRONG PARTY.

+1

TNFreedom
02-05-2008, 09:06 PM
You guys are fucking idiots. Still about half the states to go, and we havent even had the convention yet. Why run independent? Fucking retard OP.

Nice language. Good way to show your intelligence while you are calling someone else a retard. Are you 18 or 19?

Gustogus
02-05-2008, 09:07 PM
Live to fight another day folks.

Stay in the fight till the convention. If all goes Well Dr. Paul plays Kingmaker. We fight for liberty caucus concessions in the next elections. We move a few bits of our agenda along.

Politics isn't a sprint, its a marathon. The most important part is that we show the media and the country that we're not a fly by night operation. We have to prove we're not just a bunch of kiddies jumping on the most recent fad and riding it into the ground to only be distracted by the next shiny object.

Stick with the RNC, get our people into Republican seats, push the agenda. Even if Dr. Paul won the RNC nomination he's fighting the Republican uphill battle of following the "George and Dick" show. If we do this right we set ourselves up to take the White House in 4-8 years. We are poisded to capture the disillusioned section of the Republican party (which is rather large these days).

A revolution isn't won in a single battle folks. Honestly if the Libertarian party were smart they would be jumpign ship to join us, they could take over an entire major party right now. Think about it, Universal Healthcare is set as a Democratic agenda for their next President. Our economy is tanking. The president just presented a 3.1 trillion dollar budget with a 400 billion dollar deficit. Imagine what this could look like in 4 years. Imagine if we had the framework started by Dr. Paul to say "We told you so". Imagine if we could say that from the megaphone that is the Republican Party.

There is a whole lot riding on Dr. Paul not just winning this thing, but doing well all the way to the convention.

It's a marathon folks, if your attention span can't handle it perhaps politics isn't for you....

Flash
02-05-2008, 09:09 PM
Libertarian party IMO.

Then may be he can run as a congressman again as a Republican? I'm not sure how that works.

colecrowe
02-05-2008, 09:10 PM
Keep dreaming! Unfortunately we do not have enough money for a 3rd party candidacy :(

Perot only spent 65 million--look on wikipedia. What cost $65,000,000 in 1990 would cost $107,402,877.98 in 2007. source: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi

We would need probably 100,000,000

That is doable, especially considering this very limited anecdotal evidence...


my dad said he'd donate another 500 to Paul (IF he announces 3rd party) (he donated 200 on Dec. 16th--but that was when it seemed like he REALLY could maybe, possibly win the Nom. I would donate 500 the day he declares (even though it will hurt financially), whereas I can't afford to give anymore (I gave just over a 1,100 in Q4 to the cause--so shut up) for his Republican run; and gramps would probably wager another 1776.00

The 2nd and 3rd tier, broader-base of supporters aren't (many or most of them) going to donate MORE--if they already have once--because TO THEM it is obvious or at least nearly certain that he's not going to get the Nom from the Republican party (I'm not saying I believe that--but they DO). However, they would be very willing and enthusiastic about supporting him in an iNDEPENDENT run.

me3
02-05-2008, 09:10 PM
Not going to happen. Ron's going to defend his congressional seat.

armand61685
02-05-2008, 09:10 PM
I was drawn to Ron Paul because I have never seen or heard a more logical, grounded politician or leader. The people who introduced me to Ron Paul got my ear because of their logical and grounded way of talking about the issues. When I hear you people revolt over talk of an independent run I scratch my head and wonder why we like the same candidate. To continue spending money pursuing the Republican nomination would be totally illogical and ridiculous at this point. An independent or third party run is the only logical option now. We still have a boat load of cash and an independent run would reengerize all of us and likely get the money and support pouring back in. We would have seven months to make some magic happen and I think we could do it.

+1

colecrowe
02-05-2008, 09:18 PM
Not going to happen. Ron's going to defend his congressional seat.

That will be so much better than having a Ron Paul iNDY president in January. 1 out of 435 or whatever it is, who's never gotten a bill past committee. Yeah another 8 years or whatever in the house is so important compared to being president. I maintain it would be a worthy sacrifice. He has to try to win the white house.

MayTheRonBeWithYou
02-05-2008, 09:23 PM
You guys are fucking idiots. Still about half the states to go, and we havent even had the convention yet. Why run independent? Fucking retard OP.

What a completely stupid and retarded post. Fail.

MayTheRonBeWithYou
02-05-2008, 09:26 PM
Not going to happen. Ron's going to defend his congressional seat.

Who gives a shit about his stupid Congressional seat? He will win it easily anyway.

90% or more of the American people have never even heard of Ron and they do not know his message. We need another 8 months to spread the word about him in the general election. Ron can get into the debates and mop the floor with these jokers. He will pick up all the anti-illegal and tons of antiwar folks. If Obama loses, Ron Paul has an actual chance of winning the White House.

Don't be a defeatist.

MayTheRonBeWithYou
02-05-2008, 09:27 PM
I am starting to doubt that Paul would do well even in a third party run....Independents have shown one thing in this primary: They're not voting for Paul.

Oh, like the 63% of independents who voted for him in Nevada??

blakjak
02-05-2008, 09:30 PM
I was against it at first, but after tonight's results, it's becoming apparent that there will not be a brokered convention. So bring on the 3rd party/independent talk.

Anthony T
02-05-2008, 09:31 PM
If Ron isn't winning now what difference does a 3rd party do?

ruggedindividualist
02-05-2008, 09:35 PM
I'm not understanding the hostility over campaign strategy and that is all talking about ditching the GOP is. I have no problem with anyone who is that threatened by discussing strategy ignoring my posts. Feel free. Your mind is locked up anyway. Calling names and obscenities isn't rational argument. It's all up to RP and I trust his decisions on it. The GOP is hurting RP and a lot of the party aren't even conservative anymore. The Establishment fears RP running indie or 3rd party (outside the matrix) and as the economy continues to tank folks will be more receptive to alternatives. He will get no media exposure (but he's sure not getting it now). They learned their lesson with Perot and folks are even dumber now. I'd go so far as to say that we can count on MSM exposure to be negative, the way they portrayed Perot and Dean as nuts when they wanted rid of them. I don't see any advantage in RP being a kingmaker at the convention. They are all liars and cheats, what can he possibly get from them?

expatriot
02-05-2008, 09:38 PM
Stay in the fight till the convention. If all goes Well Dr. Paul plays Kingmaker.

Yuck - Imagining Ron Paul lending support to any of those totems is horrible.
Even if Ron Paul asked I would never vote for those goons.


Honestly if the Libertarian party were smart they would be jumping ship to join us, they could take over an entire major party right now.
Actually we probably outnumber the Libertarian Party right now.
Just by showing up it would become ours 'lock stock and barrel'.


Think about it, Universal Healthcare is set as a Democratic agenda for their next President. Our economy is tanking. The president just presented a 3.1 trillion dollar budget with a 400 billion dollar deficit. Imagine what this could look like in 4 years. Imagine if we had the framework started by Dr. Paul to say "We told you so".
So true and very well put.


Imagine if we could say that from the megaphone that is the Republican Party.
That megaphone is controlled by the same people who will control it 4 years from now.

All that said, let us continue this marathon together,
whatever Ron Paul decides to do.:D

blakjak
02-05-2008, 09:38 PM
If Ron isn't winning now what difference does a 3rd party do?

We're still gaining supporters, the message still has not reached many people.

It's all about the message, not the ultimate result.

RlxdN10sity
02-05-2008, 09:40 PM
Sounds like you need to reread your tagline

Nobody is going to stop canvassing--no matter what. But almost everyone is hoping that if it becomes clear that he obviously can't get the Nom., he will go iNDY.

All I hear is yelling, and all I see is willful blindness, from the anti-iNDY folks.

Keep yelling. We however are hopeful for a Ron Paul whitehouse. We don't care if it is w/ out the GOP.

I'm not anti-Indy. The fact is there is one General in this revolution and he is running in the GOP primaries. If and when the time comes to make a decision to alter campaign strategy he will make the call and we will support him in that effort. Pre-maturely debating this topic only takes away focus and energy from the current effort and lends legitimacy to concerns of voters who might otherwise support Ron in the GOP except that they suspect he may ultimately run outstide the GOP. All arguments such as this one serve no other purpose than to distract from the task at hand and are rendered moot by the fact that it is not up to any of us to do anything other than get out the message and the vote to support our champion.

Paul4Prez
02-05-2008, 09:40 PM
I seriously doubt a 3rd party run would overcome this problem (http://journalism.org/node/9515). I don't mean to be negative, but I don't think the media will allow it to happen no matter what party he runs under. That said.. I'd get behind it and do all I could to help Ron Paul in a run against the media.



The chances for winning the Republican nomination are out the window after today. A third party run is our only chance to win now.

With 9 more months of grassroots campaigning, we could get around the media blackout, and get information directly to the voters -- all of them.

Ballot access isn't trivial, but we could handle that, easily. The Libertarian Party gets on the ballot in 48+ states every year, and we have 4 times as many volunteers as they do, and ten times as much money.

colecrowe
02-05-2008, 09:42 PM
We could create "the Conservative party" with our email, fundraising, and canvassing lists--and, of course, with our delegate lists. Although I still don't know if that would be better than iNDY. The reason I say that is because we might alienate the Libertarians and Constitution party folks, whereas we wouldn't if we went iNDY--but they are only like 4% of the voting public if that. "Conservative Party" (or another name possibly) would get us the Buchananites and many others I'm sure.

We WILL win iNDY.

MayTheRonBeWithYou
02-05-2008, 09:42 PM
If Ron isn't winning now what difference does a 3rd party do?

90% of Americans have never heard of Ron Paul. Not only that, but the GOP was the worst possible party to be running in, since Ron is antiwar and pro-freedom, two ideas that make him like a disease to the GOP.

Once we leave the GOP, Ron can start running anti-war ads, and truly unleash his message.

Also, if it comes down to McPain and Hitlery, Ron picks up millions and millions of antiwar and anti-illegal voters. We might even pick up a lot of hardcore conservatives, because they will never vote for McShame.

morerocklesstalk
02-05-2008, 09:43 PM
We're still gaining supporters, the message still has not reached many people.

It's all about the message, not the ultimate result.

We have only been exposed to small percentage of Republican voters. Most people do not know us and that includes many Republicans and most Independents that I meet. I'm suprised we do as well as we do in these primaries since the GOP really seems to dispise us.

Most Independents that I know are conservative on finances but open to a plethora of social freedoms. They would love Ron Paul's message of states rights and his consistent stance against Iraq.

With McCain vs. Clinton, we would be the only real anti-war canidate from day one.

colecrowe
02-05-2008, 09:44 PM
200,000 precinct captains, infomercials, and a 25 million dollar Independence Day money bomb!

Jimmy2e
02-05-2008, 09:47 PM
Guys I Think I have A Very Simple Answer To Both Sides Of This Argument.

Support Ron Paul And Let Him Make His Own Choice.

If he runs 3rd party then hell we will all be along for the ride and be there for him, if he keeps going as a republican hell lets give it our best and show we aren't faux support, and if he drops out lets keep the ideas alive and prepare for 2012 when the world will finally here the voice of freedom, prosperity, and reason.

virginiakid
02-05-2008, 09:49 PM
No 3rd Party. Independent? Maybe.

virginiakid
02-05-2008, 09:50 PM
BTW, this is a movement. Ron Paul helped us get a movement started. We need to support each other in our runs for office etc... Continue to build the grassroots for a 2012 presidential run.

Gustogus
02-05-2008, 09:50 PM
Yuck - Imagining Ron Paul lending support to any of those totems is horrible.
Even if Ron Paul asked I would never vote for those goons.


We don't have to vote for them. We just need Dr. Paul to get concessions for the next election from the National. He's dealing with Primary Delegates, not endorsements



Actually we probably outnumber the Libertarian Party right now.
Just by showing up it would become ours 'lock stock and barrel'.

Even so, if we adopted a more libertarian leaning message and drew them into the party we would have alarger pool to draw from for candidates.




So true and very well put.


thanks :)



That megaphone is controlled by the same people who will control it 4 years from now.

Despite the prevalent internet theory, the pentaverate [sp?] is not in control of American Politics. Evangels got a seat at the table because they were loud, as did the neo-cons.

Learn your Republican Party History.
Reagan and Bush 1 were mortal enemies between the Neo-Con sect (Bush) and the Goldwater Sect (Reagan), Bush as the VP was the concession to the Neo-Cons come convention time.

They weren't anointed from on high by the Rothchilds, they fought tooth and nail for years to take the control they have now. They took the long view and look at where they sit. We can do the same if people would just open their eyes!



All that said, let us continue this marathon together,
whatever Ron Paul decides to do.:D


Agreed

expatriot
02-05-2008, 09:56 PM
Guys I Think I have A Very Simple Answer To Both Sides Of This Argument.

Support Ron Paul And Let Him Make His Own Choice.

If he runs 3rd party then hell we will all be along for the ride and be there for him, if he keeps going as a republican hell lets give it our best and show we aren't faux support, and if he drops out lets keep the ideas alive and prepare for 2012 when the world will finally here the voice of freedom, prosperity, and reason.

Amen to waiting his decision.
We can suggest, recommend and plead, but it is his life, after all.

If we need to wait for 2012 I suggest we all get some kind of mail drop service
set up for supporters because those of us not rounded up for FEMA camps
will probably be living under bridges by then.
(Excepting, of course, those drafted and sent off to fight on the Eastern Front.)

On second thought, maybe waiting for 2012 is not such a good idea...

morerocklesstalk
02-05-2008, 10:01 PM
No 3rd Party. Independent? Maybe.

Agreed. We gain no more traction by adopting the title of an exsisting or even new party.

Richandler
02-05-2008, 10:04 PM
I'm thinking that even if it doesn't work we can give more exposure than ever as to why 3rd parties don't have a chance in the Presidential Race. I think that it worth a shot going for of course to win, but also to make a statement about media bias and these elections. We have the grandest opportunity to create a well documented event with a known outcome. We have a chance to give a filmmaker the ultimate opportunity to expose the system and the government corruption.

colecrowe
02-05-2008, 10:19 PM
SPREAD IT FAR AND WIDE (indy run bomb) - www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=113132

morerocklesstalk
02-05-2008, 10:22 PM
I'm thinking that even if it doesn't work we can give more exposure than ever as to why 3rd parties don't have a chance in the Presidential Race. I think that it worth a shot going for of course to win, but also to make a statement about media bias and these elections. We have the grandest opportunity to create a well documented event with a known outcome. We have a chance to give a filmmaker the ultimate opportunity to expose the system and the government corruption.

Here in Nevada, Ron Paul got 17-18% I believe. In a Republican only contest, no less, where you had to register a month before.

If we get some of the Obama supporters who refuse to back Hillary, and maybe some Romney supports who hate McCain we can really get the train going.

colecrowe
02-05-2008, 10:29 PM
we got 14% here in Nevada. But probably 45% of the delagates.

morerocklesstalk
02-05-2008, 10:31 PM
Yup I am one of those delegates.

mdevour
02-05-2008, 11:06 PM
I'm with Dr. Paul whichever course he chooses, from an independent run, or a fusion candidacy under a new party banner, to simply returning to his congressional district and seeing what he can do with the influence this effort has gathered to him. Or winning the presidency, of course! ;)

Can I point up one other thought I haven't heard from anyone else?

Think 1976, when Ronald Reagan failed to get the Republican nomination.

Then imagine an incumbent Democrat whose administration is crippled by crisis and failure... and the election of 1980 that brought us the Reagan revolution.

Ask yourself if, given another 4 years, we might be better prepared to win this battle?

Ron Paul would be elected at age 76 and re-elected at age 80. Maybe that's too old, maybe it's not. I wouldn't blame him if he decided to retire instead! :D

Think about it.

Mike D.

morerocklesstalk
02-05-2008, 11:09 PM
I think the Republicans have hurt themselves for a while. If Hillary or Obama wins, which I would imagine if either runs against McCain, than we would have to face an 8 year stretch most likely as both are very big names.

There is no better time than now to run independent.

Michael Landon
02-05-2008, 11:20 PM
Ron Paul won the Constitution Party nomination in Minnesota over the weekend. :)

colecrowe
02-05-2008, 11:46 PM
The ratio of new donors to repeat donors (about 40% and INCREASING) means that his support is growing and growing. But, more importantly, I think it means that people are less and less willing to give more if they've already given once, twice, or five times (like myself, my father, grandfather, and army buddies)--unless he is going to go iNDY. I just can't afford it. But I could make myself afford another 500 or even way more if he went iNDY because I know he could win! (don't give me crap--I gave over $1,000 in Q4, as well as about 20-30 hours of canvassing and calling--I know not enough time, but I would do 3 times that when he declared iNDY because I have a much less demanding schedule now)

Jae0
02-05-2008, 11:47 PM
I just want the rest of us states to get a say! I dont care what party he runs after that. But these people who have already voted suddenly feel like they have all the say and us other states dont mean shit.

colecrowe
02-05-2008, 11:50 PM
I just want the rest of us states to get a say! I dont care what party he runs after that. But these people who have already voted suddenly feel like they have all the say and us other states dont mean shit.



Primary Calendar: http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/calendar.asp (http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/calendar.asp)

Month

Date
Feb.

9

Kansas Republican caucus
Louisiana


12
District of Columbia
Maryland
Virginia


19
Washington
Wisconsin

March

4
Ohio
Rhode Island
Texas
Vermont


11
Mississippi
April

22

Pennsylvania
May

6
Indiana
North Carolina

13
Nebraska
West Virginia primary

20
Kentucky
Oregon

27
Idaho Republican primary
June

3
Montana primary
New Mexico Republican primary
South Dakota
August

Aug. 25-28
Democratic National Convention — Denver, CO
September

Sept. 1-4
Republican National Convention — Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN

colecrowe
02-06-2008, 12:37 AM
www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com (http://www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com/) <--pledge here.


Face it, the GOP has rejected us. There is no plausible path to the nomination after today, none. The next stage in our ideological struggle to save this country is to undertake an Independent run for the White House. I realize there are a lot of naysayers on this issue. Some people think it's insanely hard to do and that it cannot be done. I submit the following points to argue otherwise. If you agree, please help me spread word about the site and make sure to signup today. :D


Ballot Signatures:
We need to gather about 800,000 signatures nationwide to get on the ballots. We have a wonderful precinct captain system to help accomplish this, and I've read reports that to hire collectors to do the job would cost about 3 million dollars. It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that we cannot collect these signatures.

Sore Loser Laws:
Only four states in the country present possible issues with Sore Loser laws: Texas, Ohio, South Dakota, and Mississippi. There may be legal grounds to dispute these laws. More information here (http://www.ballot-access.org/2007/01/12/sore-loser-laws-dont-generally-apply-to-presidential-candidates/) and here (http://www.ballot-access.org/2007/07/20/do-sore-loser-laws-apply-to-presidential-candidates/)

Votes:
Polling done by Rasmussen a week ago showed that Ron Paul would garner between 7-11% of the vote in four-way matchups that included Bloomberg, Paul, and the GOP/Dem nominees. More info here. (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/will_michael_bloomberg_ron_paul_run_third_party_ca mpaigns_in_2008)

Debates:
Perot got in them before, no reason we cant pull it off as well. If the polling above is true, then the media might actually let us in. Double digit support is the key, and it looks like we might be able to manage that.

A New Era:
We've learned some important lessons and made some mistakes, but the campaign activities have improved at the official level, and the grassroots got their much needed wakeup call that our attention starved methods are not very effective. We still have powerful weapons at our disposal, namely the 24 hour news cycle, new media, high name recognition, record high voter dissatisfaction, etc... Most importantly, we have the winning message and the dedication to spread it. Educating people takes time, we shouldn't give up yet.

..

cindy25
02-06-2008, 12:39 AM
the model to use is the winning model of James Buckley in the 1970 US Senate race in which he WON as a minor party candidate (Conservative) in the 2nd most liberal state.

Ross Perot lost.

PennCustom4RP
02-06-2008, 12:41 AM
I too think that a 3rd party run is certainly something for RP to consider, given these points.

The LP supports Ron Paul as their candidate, so by de facto, the RP platform becomes the LP platform.

Many Libertarians re-registered as republicans to support RP, and will more than likely leave the GOP following their respective primary dates, and certainly will bring those other GOP supporters of RP who feel disenfranchised by the shunning of the neo-con agenda, the GOP not representing the same conservative beliefs that they do.

The LP is an established party, having ballot access in most states, a much better avenue to take than starting a new party.

Our grassroots effort is something that Perot didn't have, and our money raising ability can rival and surpass what Perot spent on his campaign. At least our money raising efforts were consistently reported, albeit with surprise.

Many others of the GOP do not like McCain, and if he becomes the GOP nominee, will not vote for him.

Many Dems do not like Hillary, or Obama, and see them the same as the status quo of politics, no better than the McRomneys...all seen as pandering liars, not to be trusted.

If Bloomburg and Nader enter the race, this would give legitimacy by their name recognition, along with Ron Paul, the credibility of a 3rd party/Independent run, giving the American people more choice other than the anointed two party system.

Any 3rd Party run with name recognition is NEWS, even if not invited to the GOP/DNC debates, they can debate each other, and I have no doubt, The MSM will have to cover it, if for no other reason, but to not be scooped by another network by ignoring it.

The more choices, the more the people feel they are represented, the more defused the vote, only 34% needed to win.

Ron Paul can bring to light the liberal conservativeness and warmongering of McRomney, and the tax and spend politics of the Hillobama, as the war and economy have become the major issues this cycle.
The MSM wants to ignore all this, until they have no choice, because it came up and bit them on the ass.
Then the truth will be told.

lasenorita
02-06-2008, 12:54 AM
I think we should prepare for a third-party or an Independent run or at the very least, let others know about the possibility. Consider it a fair warning to the GOP. If they want to keep the White House, their only choice is to nominate Ron Paul. Half a million people voted for him today --- people who have done their research and stood up for their country despite the ridicule and media blackout.

It's still too early yet to start threatening an Independent run, though. Ron Paul is still in the race (and will most likely be in it all the way to September). But it'd be nice to keep the GOP establishment and the other candidates on their toes... :D

MayTheRonBeWithYou
02-06-2008, 12:58 AM
I think "Independent" is better than LP for now, although we are incredibly grateful for the support of the LP. I think it will be a lot easier for anti-illegal Republicans and anti-war Dems, as an example, to cast a vote for Ron Paul as an "Independent" rather than "Libertarian Party." Fairly or unfairly, the LP is considered pretty fringe, and it conjures up thoughts of drug legalization and prostution other such things. I'm not saying it's fair, I'm just saying it's the perception. At some point, after the 08 race, we could come together under the banner of the LP, or perhaps a newly envisioned party called the Liberty Party or something like that.

morerocklesstalk
02-06-2008, 01:03 AM
I think running on the Libertarian party ticket would kill our chances with disgruntled Dems and even some angry Republicans.

Name and appearance mean a lot. I know when I tell my peers that my favorite canidate is Republican, they look at me funny and don't really want to find out more about Dr. Paul. So I would hate to have a similar problem as a Libertarian.

By running Independent we have no stigma attached and we can really reach people with just our message, no baggage.

expatinireland
02-06-2008, 01:33 AM
One thing we should have learned is that it takes one hell of a lot of organisation to operate a campaign properly.

The sooner a decision is made to go independent, the better.

Canvassing for an independent run needs to start asap as many people will need to be registered to vote - every person of voting age will be a prospect for us.

The message needs to be refined ie RP is talking over peoples heads when addressing the FRB and monetary policy - this might be ok for the college campus but not for the average Joe.

No need to go with a tired old brand with an existing 3rd party as the media will only use that to marginalize the campaign.

expatinireland
02-06-2008, 01:38 AM
It's still too early yet to start threatening an Independent run, though. Ron Paul is still in the race (and will most likely be in it all the way to September). But it'd be nice to keep the GOP establishment and the other candidates on their toes... :D

It will be too late to mount an independent campaign if we wait till September.

If we wait till September, my support will be lukewarm as I know we won't have a chance of getting the job done.

colecrowe
02-06-2008, 01:41 AM
It will be too late to mount an independent campaign if we wait till September.

If we wait till September, my support will be lukewarm as I know we won't have a chance of getting the job done.

QFT

smartpeople4ronpaul
02-06-2008, 01:42 AM
I know many people don't want to hear that but the republicans/media would not let it happen even if had enough support. Plus a 3rd party announcement will create an immediate bump in fund raising

We've fought a helluva fight... and who hear wants to stop now? I surely don't... a 3rd party run will let us fight all the way till the end. Either the libertarian or constitutution party...both have ballot access so it won't be a problem and both parties will support Ron 100%. Let's keep going!

Hey little 10-post- New Member, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!! You'd better get outta here. We don't need some brand new member giving us negativity.

morerocklesstalk
02-06-2008, 01:52 AM
It will be too late to mount an independent campaign if we wait till September.

If we wait till September, my support will be lukewarm as I know we won't have a chance of getting the job done.

I kind of disagree. If McCain and Clinton are the two choices that are set in stone, coming in as an independent would really provide some momentum for many voters that may not like either canidate. (Ex- Thompson, Romney, Obama, and Edwards supporters).

If Ron Paul is saving his money, I would love to see media blitz of ads maybe a week after the last of the two canidates are anounced.

The Right wing talk shows could really garner us some support if they were having to face the options of voting for McCain or Hillary. We will be the anti-war canidate.

literatim
02-06-2008, 01:52 AM
If Ron Paul decides at some time he wants to run 3rd party (which he won't). There should be a new party, the Change Party. I am seriously freaking tired of all those candidates shouting "change" as if they will change anything.

expatinireland
02-06-2008, 03:37 AM
If Ron Paul decides at some time he wants to run 3rd party (which he won't). There should be a new party, the Change Party. I am seriously freaking tired of all those candidates shouting "change" as if they will change anything.

If the 3rd party option was chosen it would need definitely need to be a new brand.
RP would just end up getting marginalised again as a Libertarian or other existing 3rd party candidate.

I don't know the rules, but this late in the process I imagine it would be difficult to get a new party up and running in time for November.

GoRon2008
02-06-2008, 04:00 AM
I would just like to say I will double my last donation if Ron announces 3rd party Run.

colecrowe
02-06-2008, 12:02 PM
I would just like to say I will double my last donation if Ron announces 3rd party Run.


iNDY NOT Third Party!

But, yes, that is absolutely right. People are not going to keep donating if there is an insistence on continuing to run for the Republican Nomination, since he can't win it.

He can win as an independent however.

see my sig...

MayTheRonBeWithYou
02-06-2008, 12:07 PM
If Ron Paul decides at some time he wants to run 3rd party (which he won't). There should be a new party, the Change Party. I am seriously freaking tired of all those candidates shouting "change" as if they will change anything.

Ahhh!! you're starting to come around! :eek: