IT'S NOW OFFICIAL - Mainstream Media Hi-jacked the 2008 Presidential Election!

[Menthol Patch]

Lets face facts for a moment.

It's now obvious that CNN, Fox News, and the rest of the mainstream media have hi-jacked this election. They have done so by marginalizing, ignoring, avoiding mentioning, and now almost totally denying the existence of Ron Paul. This is in addition to calling him an isolationist and falsely claiming he is a racist (while ignoring the fact that McCain stated a few years ago he hates "gooks"). They have 100% without a doubt stolen this election.

Do we have a chance to win in a total blackout of Ron Paul? Of course we have a chance. But that chance is very small. The media is giving hundreds of millions of dollars of free publicity to the other candidates. Ron Paul is now receiving almost zero. We cannot compete financially with this. In order to make up the difference we would have to raise a hundred million dollars. That is not likely to happen.

We are in a horrible situation. The mainstream media is NOT relenting. They are in control of this election and they are determined to do whatever it takes to stop Ron Paul from gaining support.

Lets say we lose the Republican nomination. What happens then? Do we really think a third party run would be any more successful? It would not. The only reason Ron Paul was allowed in the debates so far is because he was running as a Republican. If he ran as an independent or a third party candidate he would be ignored even more, would not get into any of the debates, and would receive very few dollars in media attention.

So what can we do?

The only option I see is to start some kind of drive started where each and every one of us promises to convert a large number of people to vote for Ron Paul. This would have to be enforced somehow. Also, every Ron Paul supporter would have to participate. If this is to have a chance every single Ron Paul supporter on the planet would have to join.

I think such a project would be doable. But it would have to be started quickly so we could get the word out to all Ron Paul supporters and have them start converting people in a short period of time.

If we want to win we have to come up with something NOW and implement it FAST.

[RoyalShock]

Menthol, you're a great patriot, but there is an element of reality that must be considered. No matter how much educating and converting is done, a write-in campaign will not end in victory.

I absolutely plan on writing in Dr. Paul (if he isn't the nominee). But for me it is now an issue of making sure my vote goes only to a candidate that deserves it and that it sends a message. I now feel my vote is more powerful to use on the right candidate, than the "electable" one.

After that, it's back to the Congress for Dr. Paul and the other "Ron Paul Republicans" (hopefully).

But RP is still in this!!!

[linusPAULing]

MSM has been telling us who should be president for decades. This is nothing new.

One great thing about the RP campaign is that it's waking up at least 10% of the population to this fact.

[tomveil]

I'm torn.

Part of me wants to rebuild the country from the ground up. One congressman/woman at a time.

Another part of me thinks we don't have that much time, and wants to get the hell out before it all goes to crap.

*sigh*

[FreeTraveler]

This would have to be enforced somehow. Also, every Ron Paul supporter would have to participate. If this is to have a chance every single Ron Paul supporter on the planet would have to join.

No. I don't take "enforcement" from the local gestapo, and you don't qualify either. RP's smarter than you think, and it's not over yet. Let's let him keep driving. Also, join your county Republican party and start flooding the meetings with Ron Paul Republicans. They're already dis-spirited, and will be even worse if McCain is the candidate. The party is ripe for picking. Join the Republican Liberty Caucus for national co-ordination.

[linusPAULing]

I'm torn.

Part of me wants to rebuild the country from the ground up. One congressman/woman at a time.

Another part of me thinks we don't have that much time, and wants to get the hell out before it all goes to crap.

*sigh*

Where would you go that's in better shape?

[fj45lvr]

Its elementary dear watson.

Business doesn't change a whole lot. Its all about the Benjamins....um, I mean Euros!!

[mannycp]

This is about the message, not Ron Paul.

[AHIGHERGOD]

MSM has been telling us who should be president for decades. This is nothing new.

One great thing about the RP campaign is that it's waking up at least 10% of the population to this fact.

;)
Correct. With the internet now the game has changed

[tomveil]

Where would you go that's in better shape?

Costa Rica, Belize, Italy, New Zealand, Australia are all places that I'm looking at.

If the government would just leave me the fuck alone, I would be more than happy living somewhere in the hills of the US. But because the government is basically ruining the economy of the entire country, EVERYBODY is going to suffer.

Give me 50 feet of beach-front property and leave me alone, and that's the place for me. :)

[WarningSLO]

I can't even count how many times I've heard today that there are only 5 candidates left. It really is unbelievable.

[Menthol Patch]

The fact is we must increase our support base and do so quickly if we want to win the Republican nomination.

How can we do this?

[transistor]

never again will i trust the mainstream media and i've been showing the light to all my friends and family

thank god for the internet

[SWATH]

I think we need a password protected sub-forum!

[Join The Paul Side]

I think we need to go to old school advertising tactics to get around this MSM bullshit. Billboards everywhere. Mailers everywhere. Routine protests outside their broadcast studios. Bus wraps, car wraps. We should even try to get his picture on soda cans, bottled water, cereal boxes and things of that nature. Flyers which point out the MSM BlackOut and why it is occurring.

Radio ads. Not just on AM stations with talking heads, but rock stations, hip hop stations, and techno startions.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. :cool:

[Exarel]

I'm torn.

Part of me wants to rebuild the country from the ground up. One congressman/woman at a time.

Another part of me thinks we don't have that much time, and wants to get the hell out before it all goes to crap.

*sigh*

I know your feeling, except part of me also thinks people deserve it.. but i know thats not fair. I've debated this within myself for a while, i've come to the conclusion that at the VERY least, RP deserves my 100% effort, and thats all that counts for me.

[linusPAULing]

;)
Correct. With the internet now the game has changed

Let's hope we can keep it that way for a while!

[Agora]

don't forget : http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3629/mediaronpaular9.jpg

[latkinson6]

never again will i trust the mainstream media and i've been showing the light to all my friends and family

thank god for the internet

Show all your friend this vid: (3 parts)
http://www.metacafe.com/tags/outfoxxed/

I had to watch this again last. Keeps me away from the tv news

[bluto20]

I think we need a password protected sub-forum!

I 2nd that.

[Rhys]

The problem to me is, I'm getting unbelievably angry at the media and I have nothing to take it out on. It's not like I can call Ted Turner and swear at him. My sister just called and asked if Ron Paul dropped out because the media hasn't said anything about him. MY OWN SISTER thought he dropped out, and I've been on the campaign. Think of the people who don't know us... what must they think about Ron Paul?!?!

I want to throw something. If I hear that there's only 3 people running in the GOP!!! I mean, even on NPR for God's sake. It's a fucking lie and obviously we know it... i mean for fucks sake how is it even legal for NPR to lie about this? They're funded with TAX DOLLARS!

WHY CAN THE MEDIA LIE?!?!?!?!?!? GAJKGA:UGd:kjgf:kfweau:eigkjaSGJ;KFGASD;IUFEG;UISD GFKJD

[Ara825]

I think we need a password protected sub-forum!

YES!

[Benaiah]

I'm torn.

Part of me wants to rebuild the country from the ground up. One congressman/woman at a time.

Another part of me thinks we don't have that much time, and wants to get the hell out before it all goes to crap.

*sigh*

I'm out of here as soon as my fiancé graduates school. For those of you who believe in God, look up Mystery Babylon in the King James. This place is a gonner.

[ronpaulfollower999]

I think we need a password protected sub-forum!

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54

[Menthol Patch]

Seriously, what can we do to triple our support base in a few weeks?

[slantedview]

I'm torn.

Part of me wants to rebuild the country from the ground up. One congressman/woman at a time.

Another part of me thinks we don't have that much time, and wants to get the hell out before it all goes to crap.

*sigh*

yea but where are you going to hide? we'll have an NAU to go with the EU before we know it. there's nowhere safe in the world. we have to stay here and fight.

[Menthol Patch]

They keep on saying that Huckabee won 18 delegates in West Virginia! He did not!

This is what I'm talking about. We cannot win if they keep on lying about us. Our only chance is to think of something we can do to triple our numbers in a few weeks.

[Matt Collins]

Please distribute the below information to your meetup members. If the media starts to screw us tonight in their coverage, we need to flood their phone lines.

Here is the DIRECT line to the Fox News Desk in NYC:
212-301-5800

Here another number for them:
212-301-5860

If anyone cares it was listed here:

http://affiliates.foxnewsradio.com/media/static_content/FOX_Talk_Program_Clock.pdf



All story pitches from affiliates are directed here:
cnnfutures@cnn.com


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[tomveil]

yea but where are you going to hide? we'll have an NAU to go with the EU before we know it. there's nowhere safe in the world. we have to stay here and fight.

Well, I guess I'll be the first to say it.

The NAU may be better than what the USA is turning into.

[Menthol Patch]

The NAU would be worse.

[tomveil]

The NAU would be worse.

Worse than now? Sure.

Worse than after 4 years of Hillary or McCain?

[JimInNY]

The Window War (http://www.lizmichael.com/windowwa.htm) is a neat little FICTION story about a similar time in recent history, except the villains were the parties themselves.

[FreeTraveler]

They keep on saying that Huckabee won 18 delegates in West Virginia! He did not!

This is what I'm talking about. We cannot win if they keep on lying about us. Our only chance is to think of something we can do to triple our numbers in a few weeks.

Yes, he did. The deal is to replace three delegates with Ron Paul supporters. They will still be bound in the first vote at the convention, but free to vote as they choose after that.

[slantedview]

Well, I guess I'll be the first to say it.

The NAU may be better than what the USA is turning into.

nah. at least we still have a constitution to fight for and hope for. once we get an NAU, the constitution might be officially tossed out.

[bootstrap]

If any of you believe this country has one chance in a million, you are very naive.

Overt in-your-face daily corruption generates barely a peep - and even then, only in the forums of the abused.

Americans have thoroughly habituated lies, fraud, scams, deceit, fiction, fantasy and pure unadulterated BS for generations. So thorougly have americans habituated insanity, they no longer even notice overt lies. So thoroughly have americans embraced fascism, they consider the core ideas of liberty to be obscene.

Make no mistake, to elect Ron Paul president in 2008 *was* the last chance, and an extraordinarily slim chance at that, given the forces aligned against liberty. He would be a lamb in a lions den.

I planned to abandon ship before I learned Ron Paul was running, and I have not changed my plans. I encourage every single one of you to abandon ship before this titantic disaster goes vertical and starts heading straight downward. Liberty, freedom, individual rights are states of existence, not places. The USA you imagine is long, long gone. You've been living in the USSA for decades already. If it wasn't already obvious, the 3.11 trillion dollar budget is proof the USSA is being purposely destroyed, to make the population absolutely scream for any super-fascist "solution" to their shopping-mall misery. Why is the world not yet treating the USSA like the banana republic it is? Because it is a banana republic with nukes. That's it. But they're fed up, and they should be. So are we all.

Finally, I will note that we still do have about one chance in a million - though maybe that is a tad optimistic. What chance is that?

One last "money bomb". The kind of "money bomb" that might actually shake people up enough to consider an alternative - the only alternative who has spoken about the US economy "going bankrupt" at the debates.

If everyone in this forum sold all their stocks and bonds immediately (and buy gold with the revenue), it might just barely be enough - combined with the decline already in progress - push the markets over the edge. That is the only chance in a million left, and frankly, you are all better off holding real money (gold) than fictional, fantasy, fraudulant counterfiet money. In fact, what kind of supporter of liberty holds federal reserve notes, and thereby supports the corruption? :-(

One final money bomb? A *real* money bomb is what is called for.

[tomveil]

If any of you believe this country has one chance in a million, you are very naive.

Overt in-your-face daily corruption generates barely a peep - and even then, only in the forums of the abused.

Americans have thoroughly habituated lies, fraud, scams, deceit, fiction, fantasy and pure unadulterated BS for generations. So thorougly have americans habituated insanity, they no longer even notice overt lies. So thoroughly have americans embraced fascism, they consider the core ideas of liberty to be obscene.

Make no mistake, to elect Ron Paul president in 2008 *was* the last chance, and an extraordinarily slim chance at that, given the forces aligned against liberty. He would be a lamb in a lions den.

I planned to abandon ship before I learned Ron Paul was running, and I have not changed my plans. I encourage every single one of you to abandon ship before this titantic disaster goes vertical and starts heading straight downward. Liberty, freedom, individual rights are states of existence, not places. The USA you imagine is long, long gone. You've been living in the USSA for decades already. If it wasn't already obvious, the 3.11 trillion dollar budget is proof the USSA is being purposely destroyed, to make the population absolutely scream for any super-fascist "solution" to their shopping-mall misery. Why is the world not yet treating the USSA like the banana republic it is? Because it is a banana republic with nukes. That's it. But they're fed up, and they should be. So are we all.

Finally, I will note that we still do have about one chance in a million - though maybe that is a tad optimistic. What chance is that?

One last "money bomb". The kind of "money bomb" that might actually shake people up enough to consider an alternative - the only alternative who has spoken about the US economy "going bankrupt" at the debates.

If everyone in this forum sold all their stocks and bonds immediately (and buy gold with the revenue), it might just barely be enough - combined with the decline already in progress - push the markets over the edge. That is the only chance in a million left, and frankly, you are all better off holding real money (gold) than fictional, fantasy, fraudulant counterfiet money. In fact, what kind of supporter of liberty holds federal reserve notes, and thereby supports the corruption? :-(

One final money bomb? A *real* money bomb is what is called for.

*nods*

I had a 7 year plan to get away from the country, but more because of the society. (Endless advertising, material possessions being more important than being a 'good' person, etc) After finding Ron Paul, I put all those plans on hold and thought that MAYBE we still had a chance to turn it around. Now that 7 year plan is a 4 year plan, and I HOPE that we have 4 years left.

[Mattsa]

Lets face facts for a moment.

It's now obvious that CNN, Fox News, and the rest of the mainstream media have hi-jacked this election. They have done so by marginalizing, ignoring, avoiding mentioning, and now almost totally denying the existence of Ron Paul. This is in addition to calling him an isolationist and falsely claiming he is a racist (while ignoring the fact that McCain stated a few years ago he hates "gooks"). They have 100% without a doubt stolen this election.

Do we have a chance to win in a total blackout of Ron Paul? Of course we have a chance. But that chance is very small. The media is giving hundreds of millions of dollars of free publicity to the other candidates. Ron Paul is now receiving almost zero. We cannot compete financially with this. In order to make up the difference we would have to raise a hundred million dollars. That is not likely to happen.

We are in a horrible situation. The mainstream media is NOT relenting. They are in control of this election and they are determined to do whatever it takes to stop Ron Paul from gaining support.

Lets say we lose the Republican nomination. What happens then? Do we really think a third party run would be any more successful? It would not. The only reason Ron Paul was allowed in the debates so far is because he was running as a Republican. If he ran as an independent or a third party candidate he would be ignored even more, would not get into any of the debates, and would receive very few dollars in media attention.

So what can we do?

The only option I see is to start some kind of drive started where each and every one of us promises to convert a large number of people to vote for Ron Paul. This would have to be enforced somehow. Also, every Ron Paul supporter would have to participate. If this is to have a chance every single Ron Paul supporter on the planet would have to join.

I think such a project would be doable. But it would have to be started quickly so we could get the word out to all Ron Paul supporters and have them start converting people in a short period of time.

If we want to win we have to come up with something NOW and implement it FAST.

You are up against such powerful forces of darkness.

I empathise with your rant but it really wont help. You'll just thicken your arteries

Please read and understand what you are up against

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2908.shtml

It's an excellent article and sums up where we are........

[freelance]

I'll post this again. I went to school with a couple of sisters who escaped Cuba while it was still possible. It left quite an impression. I'm outta here before the curtain comes crashing down. It's either Costa Rica or Panama.

Check them both out:

escapeartist.com

[Menthol Patch]

I know what we are up against.

[Ginobili]

Costa Rica, Belize, Italy, New Zealand, Australia are all places that I'm looking at.

If the government would just leave me the fuck alone, I would be more than happy living somewhere in the hills of the US. But because the government is basically ruining the economy of the entire country, EVERYBODY is going to suffer.

Give me 50 feet of beach-front property and leave me alone, and that's the place for me. :)

lol, I want to go to Italy or Australia too... lets go, if it gets too SHTF ish! :P

[Jim_Karr]

I agree so. They did hijack this election. I got pissed about my nephew and the school saying Ron Paul doesn't and was quite loud when I told my mother about it and it was BS. She told me to grow up, and then she says Ron Paul isn't on the news. Yep, it was hi jacked and she just proved it. She is not into politics at all and she help confirm this thread by what she said. She is not and will not register to vote and will never be. She will not vote never ever so getting her to is out of the question. But she did confirm this thread.

[tomveil]

lol, I want to go to Italy or Australia too... lets go, if it gets too SHTF ish! :P

Start a chip-in :D lol

[ThomasJ]

Actually I am hoping for a secession from the Union.. I hope Montana secedes. Starts following the constitution and all is well.

I doubt that will happen but here is to hoping.

[tomveil]

Actually I am hoping for a secession from the Union.. I hope Montana secedes. Starts following the constitution and all is well.

I doubt that will happen but here is to hoping.

Interesting and kinda ties to a thread I thought about. I'll post it tommorrow because of the super tuesday madness. :)

[Mattsa]

*nods*

I had a 7 year plan to get away from the country, but more because of the society. (Endless advertising, material possessions being more important than being a 'good' person, etc) After finding Ron Paul, I put all those plans on hold and thought that MAYBE we still had a chance to turn it around. Now that 7 year plan is a 4 year plan, and I HOPE that we have 4 years left.

And here am I planning to marry my American GF and emigrate to America.

You might think I'm insane.......

But I live in the UK.

The UK was the globalists' guinea pig for enslavement. They've been destroying the UK for 50 years and they've made a fine job of it. Living here is a nightmare. It is a prison. The UK is Americ'a destiny.

But I'd still elect to live in America any day. I have faith in the American people to fight this enslavemnet whereas the British people acceped slavery without a fight.

You must stay in America and fight

There's nowhere else to go anyway..........

[Mattsa]

Don't be fooled by an escape to Australia or New Zealand

They got 'The matrix' established there too

[Energy]

You are up against such powerful forces of darkness.

I empathise with your rant but it really wont help. You'll just thicken your arteries

Please read and understand what you are up against

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2908.shtml

It's an excellent article and sums up where we are........


That's an incredible article.

"Most corrupt and legally sanctioned forms of tyranny hide in plain sight as democracies with free elections. The toughest lesson is that ALL elections are distractions. Nothing conceals tyranny better than elections."

"Elections just mask economic tyranny and slavery."

"The compulsion to vote is a political narcotic that sustains democratic tyranny."

[Mattsa]

That's an incredible article.

"Most corrupt and legally sanctioned forms of tyranny hide in plain sight as democracies with free elections. The toughest lesson is that ALL elections are distractions. Nothing conceals tyranny better than elections."

"Elections just mask economic tyranny and slavery."

It's a cracking article

It's the best assessment of the state of things I've read for ages.

It is also terrifying :mad:

Someone should pin that article on the forum for people to read

[Vet_from_cali]

shit been official for awhile now

[emilysdad]

http://www.yahoo.com/s/800859

OP is correct. We are being played. MSM is showing us their power and throwing it our faces.

[ArrestPoliticians]

100% right, blame the media, hate the media, and run for office based on that. I know I am.

[kyleAF]

I'm torn.

Part of me wants to rebuild the country from the ground up. One congressman/woman at a time.

Another part of me thinks we don't have that much time, and wants to get the hell out before it all goes to crap.

*sigh*

To quote Clinton: "It's the economy, stupid". Ironic that his wife needs to take his advice now.

There may not be a chance to fix this from the ground up. We're "all in" right now.

[tomveil]

And here am I planning to marry my American GF and emigrate to America.

You might think I'm insane.......

But I live in the UK.

The UK was the globalists' guinea pig for enslavement. They've been destroying the UK for 50 years and they've made a fine job of it. Living here is a nightmare. It is a prison. The UK is Americ'a destiny.

But I'd still elect to live in America any day. I have faith in the American people to fight this enslavemnet whereas the British people acceped slavery without a fight.

You must stay in America and fight

There's nowhere else to go anyway..........

Well, I'd sure as hell get out of the UK too :) And there ARE places to go. And there will be places to go in the future. As we've seen here, not EVERYBODY is brain-dead. :)

[tomveil]

There may not be a chance to fix this from the ground up. We're "all in" right now.

That's exactly what I'm afraid of. Can we actually survive 4 years of McCain/Hillary?

[Baseline]

Yes, the elections are run by the MSM's brainwashing. We know this.

I see it in my family too with the older people and those that don't do their own research and instead just rely and trust what they see on the TV.

My 57 year old mother, 58 year old father, and my 30-something sister's all don't bother do do their own research, and they all think Ron Paul dropped out of the race a month ago.

They all perfectly fall into the category of todays typical American that takes the msm as the word of god that can never be wrong.

And with the passing grade in schools dropping even more, I can't imagine how much dumber the next generation will be.

[disciple]

I'm out of here as soon as my fiancé graduates school. For those of you who believe in God, look up Mystery Babylon in the King James. This place is a gonner.

Right on.

[Wingman]

The Moon Beckons It Beckons Oh It Beckons To The Stars Jupiter And Beyond!!!!

[gilliganscorner]

There is something that might work.

We need to consider what would happen if RP does not win. There is a great thing that came out of the campaign ... we became aware of each other. There will be more RP's in the future. How do I know? It might be cynical, but we have proved there is a market for his message. Their will be others to step up in the near future. Maybe Rand Paul. Who knows? We will have to seperate the wheat from the chaff, that's all.

I want to leave you with a thought. Have you read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged? Remember Galt's Gulch and what it was?

In order to diffuse government, the answer lay in trading outside of taxation and Federal Reserve notes. If we can network via a P2P software, similar to Bit Torrent, but we use that technology for transactions between each other using credits that are fully redeemable in gold or silver, the government loses power.

As Alexander Haig, U.S. Secretary of State said in 1982: "Let them march all they want, as long as they continue to pay their taxes."

Once we figure out a way to trade with each other outside of the system, we have a non-zero chance of success.

Cheers

PS. I suggest anyone reading this take action before this forum closes - and we lose touch with each other.

[ruggedindividualist]

I'm afraid that new "Homegrown Terrorism" Bill has been tailor made in anticipation of PO'd Ron Paul supporters. They are grinding their boots in our faces and daring us to not like it. We are a test case. Even if RP gets nowhere today, good will come of this. People are having their eyes opened. I knew the media was biased but really had no clue of how bad it was until this election cycle. I don't believe it's new, it's just more visible with the internet to capture and replay every crummy trick and comment.

[sheepledog]

If any of you believe this country has one chance in a million, you are very naive.

Overt in-your-face daily corruption generates barely a peep - and even then, only in the forums of the abused.

Americans have thoroughly habituated lies, fraud, scams, deceit, fiction, fantasy and pure unadulterated BS for generations. So thorougly have americans habituated insanity, they no longer even notice overt lies. So thoroughly have americans embraced fascism, they consider the core ideas of liberty to be obscene.

Make no mistake, to elect Ron Paul president in 2008 *was* the last chance, and an extraordinarily slim chance at that, given the forces aligned against liberty. He would be a lamb in a lions den.

I planned to abandon ship before I learned Ron Paul was running, and I have not changed my plans. I encourage every single one of you to abandon ship before this titantic disaster goes vertical and starts heading straight downward. Liberty, freedom, individual rights are states of existence, not places. The USA you imagine is long, long gone. You've been living in the USSA for decades already. If it wasn't already obvious, the 3.11 trillion dollar budget is proof the USSA is being purposely destroyed, to make the population absolutely scream for any super-fascist "solution" to their shopping-mall misery. Why is the world not yet treating the USSA like the banana republic it is? Because it is a banana republic with nukes. That's it. But they're fed up, and they should be. So are we all.

Finally, I will note that we still do have about one chance in a million - though maybe that is a tad optimistic. What chance is that?

One last "money bomb". The kind of "money bomb" that might actually shake people up enough to consider an alternative - the only alternative who has spoken about the US economy "going bankrupt" at the debates.

If everyone in this forum sold all their stocks and bonds immediately (and buy gold with the revenue), it might just barely be enough - combined with the decline already in progress - push the markets over the edge. That is the only chance in a million left, and frankly, you are all better off holding real money (gold) than fictional, fantasy, fraudulant counterfiet money. In fact, what kind of supporter of liberty holds federal reserve notes, and thereby supports the corruption? :-(

One final money bomb? A *real* money bomb is what is called for.

+1 this

[lastnymleft]

I had a 7 year plan to get away from the country, but more because of the society. (Endless advertising, material possessions being more important than being a 'good' person, etc) After finding Ron Paul, I put all those plans on hold and thought that MAYBE we still had a chance to turn it around. Now that 7 year plan is a 4 year plan, and I HOPE that we have 4 years left.

The economy will collapse catastrophically into depression before the end of the next President's first term. If Dr Paul is in the White House, there's a chance that the worst of it will be over within a couple of years. If not, expect MUCH longer, and MUCH worse. I wouldn't feel comfortable about making plans for 4 years out, and hoping for the best in the interim.

[tomveil]

The economy will collapse catastrophically into depression before the end of the next President's first term. If Dr Paul is in the White House, there's a chance that the worst of it will be over within a couple of years. If not, expect MUCH longer, and MUCH worse. I wouldn't feel comfortable about making plans for 4 years out, and hoping for the best in the interim.

*nod*

This is exactly it. And as bad as the US dollar is, it's amazing what you can get with it other places..........

Gotta find me a foriegn gal to marry I guess :(

[bootstrap]

This is a short note to others who have just started thinking about leaving this titantic mess before they get trapped aboard it. I have been making plans to leave the USSA for some time now - only a few months on my countdown clock! The following observations might help some of you considering the same.

No nation on earth respects liberty or individual rights in a fundamental way. That's a fact, jack. Accept it. But also understand that conditions vary widely in different countries (and different parts of countries). So leaving *is* worthwhile.

After very extensive and careful investigations and thought, I have come to some conclusions. If you honestly care about personal liberty in a real, serious, personal way, you do *not* want to select the large country with the best reputation for "liberty" and "civil/human rights". This will undoubtedly surprise many of you, but the reality is more subtle.

You are better off choosing a specific location that contains people who are very predominantly gentle, honest, friendly, non-materialistic, largely self-sufficient. In practice, this occurs only in what city-dwellers might call "the boonies". On the other hand, what city dwellers call "boonies", I call "hopelessly overcrowed", so factor that in. Okay, that's what I consider the most important factor. Second, you do not want to focus as much on the supposed *type* of government, as the *power* or *scope* or *range/influence* of the government. The smaller the government, the less they are able to pay or organize their goons to get in your face. I have found places populated by people with the qualities I described. Consider this: some of these people have never earned or spent any money in their entire lives. In many of these places, the people rarely if ever see anyone associated with the powers-that-be in these country. Which means, the *are* mainly left alone - in fact. You care about "in fact" or "in theory"? You decide.

I understand that a change of this magnitude is too much for many people. Yes, even though I am certain most people would be utterly thrilled they made the move "after-the-fact", most people (especially gringos) are deeply chicken feet. But not everyone. If you really care, and this is not just a talking exercise or trivia like choosing which football team to root for, consider these observations.

To those people talking about islands (in other threads) --- I have looked into this too. And yes, even I am considering whether it is worth trying to organize a collection of liberty fans to buy an island. This *is* practical. Unfortunately, the threads/messages I have seen (for some wacky reason, maybe co-incidence) are discussing islands just offshore (and in the territory of) large existing countries. Very dangerous idea! An island is a fantastic idea, but you want to buy an island that is not part of any large well established country. A country composed entirely of thousands of islands may be workable in some cases.

In the long run, the only viable places for liberty are --- asteroids (and beyond).

I may start a thread about this............ soon.