Think LONG TERM - Why 3rd party is bad & staying GOP is good!

[WRellim]

Think LONG TERM - Why 3rd party is bad & staying GOP is good!

As Ron Paul himself has stated many times, the deck is completely stacked AGAINST all 3rd party candidacies -- they have to waste majority of their time and money attempting to get on the ballot, the Demopublican party prevents them from participating in Debates, etc.

Ron Paul MUST continue to run in the GOP primaries -- and we must stand by him (regardless of the official campaign's errors or inadequacies) -- for several IMPORTANT reasons:

1) If Ron STAYS in the race, while ALL the others drop out, he then become THE SOLE focal-point for dissent within the party (i.e. "Send a signal to the GOP -- we don't LIKE McCain!" ) And then Ron Paul BECOMES the "lesser of two evils" and that old meme works FOR US -- do NOT underestimate this, it is the BEST way to breach into double digits as we pickup many Huckabee AND Romney votes! (And if/when the GOP nominee LOSES the general election -- whether massively vs Obama or just barely vs Clinton -- we can emerge as the STRONGEST element within the party... saying "WE TOLD YOU SO!" -- and "Now join US and win, or get out of our way!")

ALSO, a VERY important side benefit is that the NEO-CONS (as illustrated by Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh) with their INSANE propensity for ILLOGIC -- are ALREADY in the process of REMOVING THEMSELVES from the Republican party (by LOUDLY voting/advocating Democrat or staying home).

2) The convention itself is still a long ways away. John McCain (or whoever the "anointed" nominee is after Super-Tuesday) could easily pop a blood vessel (while having a temper tantrum) or suffer an unexpected aneurysm (he's NOT looking too well these days) or start babbling even MORE nonsense, or be hit by the proverbial "bus" and suffer one of many possible different fates between now and the convention. (Among which AFTER Democrats convention -- which is far earlier -- they will likely begin attacking the "anointed" GOP candidate, even before the GOP picks one, by the convention Ron may be looking better and better to the GOP in general).

What I mean by this: Do you know HOW Barack Obama became a United States Senator?

Simple: He stayed IN THE RACE. He was not expected to win against well-funded Jack Ryan... then a little unexpected "scandal" thing happened on the way to the coronation, his crown got broken, and Jack Ryan left the race, virtually handing it to Obama. Republicans scrambled... but Obama won mainly because he was there.

3) One very IMPORTANT LONG-TERM aspect of this campaign is that a LOT of Liberty-minded people have gotten involved in their local GOP party groups. (You did too, didn't you? If not you're missing the point.) -- many of them have ALREADY stepped into local leadership roles, and IF WE STAY, more people can do so in the future! Which means we can CHANGE the party from within -- exactly as Ron Paul advocates.

If Ron were to LEAVE the party for an independent run, many of his supporter would either LEAVE those posts, or would be looked at as traitors. COMPLETELY NEGATING all the work that has been done at a local level, and destroying any chance for LONG-TERM reform.

4) We overestimate our Size and Abilities. We look at the Meetup maps, we see over 1,500 groups with over 100,000 members and think WOW! And it *IS* an AMAZING accomplishment, but it is TINY. That's right, it is TINY compared to the size and scope of a full-blown MAJOR POLITICAL PARTY, even the minority Republican party is far larger. In my state, we have 29 meetups, and probably close to 1,000 meetup members. But our state has 72 counties, and 5.5 Million people. Our GOP has a presence, a party of some type within virtually every county.

(Aside: Many of the meetup organizers in cities around the country have hundreds of members in their groups and are quite proud of their "size" -- whereas many of the more rural groups have a dozen members or less. Strangely the size of the large meetups is not so much a demonstration of their group's prowess as it is their location -- they typically have a SMALLER percentage of their actual population. The rural groups often have two, three or even five times the ratio of the cities... but all groups are small compared to the size and history of the political parties.)

Our size in opposition to that party is minuscule, both in numbers and resources. BUT as a faction WITHIN that party (whose members are often LESS involved than our own) -- we can use our "weight" to far greater affect -- especially if we do so LONG-TERM by accepting positions and duties within the party.

HOW? In most cases, simply by showing up on a regular basis, and volunteering. The local Congressional District Chairperson is in his late-twenties. How did he get to be District Chairman? Well, when he was just 19 (NINETEEN!) he volunteered to "help" as an "assistant" and became vice-chairman of the local COUNTY party -- mainly because there was no one else willing. Within 6 months, the local county party chairman retired and moved away -- by default he was promoted to County Chairman. When something similar happened two years later with the District Chairman, he was "promoted" to that spot -- again mainly because the OTHER county chairmen did not want to do the job. So basically by being there and volunteering (fool) with a few short years he is in charge of one of the major Congressional District party positions. If he persists, within a few years he may end up as state party chairman (a post which has already changed hands several times in the last few years).

So the point of it all is this -- Ron Paul spent the past 30 YEARS of his life -- 20+ of which working within the party. If we multiply that to THOUSANDS of "Ron Pauls" like us, and we remain dedicated to the cause, even for just ONE more election cycle... gaining ground and support along the way ...THEN how can we fail?


And a closing thought to echo the one in my first point above. If the GOP nominee is NOT Ron Paul then they will very likely LOSE the general election. When that happens, that previously "victorious" nominee will not look so good ...and his most "rabid" supporters will lose heart and essentially leave the party in disillusion (they will NOT attend meetings, in part out of shame). Which means in the LOCAL PARTY MEETINGS during the spring of 2009 -- when most LOCAL party officers are chosen -- We can step into the void and BECOME the Republican Party, be in control of the tiller, and turn the ship around to take advantage of the GROWING demographic-driven voters for Liberty!

THAT is why we must stay and fight the LONG fight. This is just one battle in a century long "war" and the winner is the group that stays for the LONG TERM and does NOT RETREAT. (Armys mainly lose wars NOT by dying, but by losing heart and running away.)

[sgrooms]

Exactly

[skiingff]

x2

Ron Paul Republicans NEED NOT vote party line just b/c they are working to bring liberty back to the party...

[Jim_Karr]

Yes but it doesn't mean we as supporters have to vote Republican though. They won't get my vote unless Ron Paul is the nomination. I won't vote Republican this year for anyone but Ron Paul. Need to let this sink into their heads.

[Cleaner44]

3rd party will only be viable when we convert to preferential or runoff voting.

[Join The Paul Side]

The third party or Indy run idea is only bad until we are mathmatically out of the GOP race or lose the brokered convention.

I refuse to vote for the GOP candidate unless it is Ron Paul.

If Ron Paul does not get the GOP nomination and does not run third party or Indy I will either write him in or vote Dem if I can't (not sure how to write in a candidate if my state uses damn machines).

Fuck the GOP. :mad:

[WRellim]

Yes but it doesn't mean we as supporters have to vote Republican though. They won't get my vote unless Ron Paul is the nomination. I won't vote Republican this year for anyone but Ron Paul. Need to let this sink into their heads.

What you do within the privacy of the voting booth is ENTIRELY up to you. :D


But we need to all GET ACTIVE -- within our LOCAL Republican Party -- ACTIVE, VOCAL and steadfast.

You (and I) may not be able to work for (or even vote for) their Presidential candidate this year -- BUT WE CAN SUPPORT AND WORK ON OTHER Republican campaigns -- especially LOCAL campaigns, which in a year like this need ALL the help they can get!

Find a local Republican Assemblyman or State Senator who is up for re-election and help with HIS or HER campaign -- and strike up the cause with them -- you can PROBABLY find common ground on LOCAL and STATE issues, and work to win them over to LIBERTY with your passion and commitment.

Learn your State GOP's platform by heart -- or better yet, get involved in your State's GOP Convention and HELP REWRITE that platform as one that pushes FORWARD LIBERTY!


And never forget (or let THEM forget) that the nominee who LOSES the general election will drag down a LOT of the party with him, and since the party does NOT want to blame George W. Bush for anything... who do you think they WILL blame... that's right, the candidate who LOSES.


The party as a whole will turn away and THAT candidate's name will become like "voldemort" -- unspoken (but out of disgust rather than fear!) Think, how much "respect" does anyone have for Bob Dole? How often do you hear his name mentioned?

THAT is the task at hand.

It is NOT quick, it is NOT easy... but if we stick together, we CAN WIN! It's just gonna take a few years.... Next time we'll be better prepared, BETTER organized and unstoppable. Are you up for it? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySESr0qcGhE)

[pcosmar]

The hardest part of promoting Ron Paul has been his association with the republican party.
more often than not, as soon as people saw Republican on fliers or SlimJims I heard NO THANKS.
The Republican Party has a lot of negative baggage.
I was hoping that the party would embrace Ron, but they have done just the opposite.
I support Ron Paul, PERIOD....

[RockEnds]

I think it's Ron Paul's decision, and I'll support whatever he decides. The country's in real trouble. I'm sure he'll make a wise choice based on years of experience in the political arena and a vast amount of knowledge on the current state of the union.

[acptulsa]

The hardest part of promoting Ron Paul has been his association with the republican party.
more often than not, as soon as people saw Republican on fliers or SlimJims I heard NO THANKS.
The Republican Party has a lot of negative baggage.
I was hoping that the party would embrace Ron, but they have done just the opposite.
I support Ron Paul, PERIOD....

It certainly makes more sense to take the Republican party back for the people than to try to take the Democratic party over for true conservatism. Try explaining it to people that way and see what they say.

I've found it to be a conversation stopper.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

The hardest part of promoting Ron Paul has been his association with the republican party.
more often than not, as soon as people saw Republican on fliers or SlimJims I heard NO THANKS.
The Republican Party has a lot of negative baggage.

This is true. Very true. His association with republicans has been anything but helpful with our grassroots efforts.

Since republican party insiders do everything they can to marginalize him, his entire success has relied on grassroots support, and it's not easy to constantly debunk the lies they tell.

You have some good points OP, but I will not be volunteering anything for those people. So, I'm supposed to volunteer for 4 years to hope it has some effect? If you came accoss a battered spouse, would you suggest that they volunteer for 4 years, do what their spouse asks of them, and hope they can change things?

[xerigen]

I am only associated with the GOP because of Ron Paul. Once this election is over I am completely disenfranchised with it. I don't care about it and frankly it needs to go.

[Freemason]

Stay in the congress and never be heard from again or make a huge statement and make an indy run. hmmm? This is the last chance for Ron to make a big difference in the race. If all else fails then he stays in the congress always voting no and getting no coverage. No matter what he decides I will support him though.

[pennycat]

Great thread. And props to WRellim for writing such a thought provoking article. And I agree with Pcosmar that when I've mentioned the word Republican, I routinely loose 30 percent of people.

My thoughts are that the Republican party is in the middle of an identity crisis. I want to be around to pick up the pieces. If the party was strong I'd be more inclined to leave. But extreme weakness of this sort only comes around once in a blue moon.

Besides all of the above, we need a LOT of practice in winning the average voter to our side. Let's be honest, RP's support is tiny and not going anywhere. Sure the media plays a big role in this, but it is obvious to me after month's of canvassing that America is not yet ready for a message of peace, prosperity, and liberty. It is up to us to educate them. Working within the Republican party is a ready made classroom for us.

If we ever could get our freedom message adopted by the GOP, it would give us tremendous credibility with the common voter. I do believe whole-heartedly in the Ron Paul rEVOLution, but pragmatically we must change course at this time. Later we can return to a more radical agenda.

[literatim]

I am only associated with the GOP because of Ron Paul. Once this election is over I am completely disenfranchised with it. I don't care about it and frankly it needs to go.

...and the GOP isn't going anywhere. That is why the only way to fix the system is to infiltrate the system and change it ourselves.

[Rede]

Exactly!

There are a lot of people on here who just don't get it, but have some confidence that Ron Paul isn't stupid and knows all of the above. Further, Ron has run as the Libertarian candidate before and knows that a third party run won't be worthwhile, especially in the face of the Ron Paul Republican movement.

[FreeTraveler]

This is true. Very true. His association with republicans has been anything but helpful with our grassroots efforts.



Only someone who has never been involved in a third-party run could say something like that. Go look at how much exposure and how many votes Dr. Paul got in 1988 on the Libertarian ticket; or go look for the same info for the 2004 Libertarian or Constitutional Party candidates.

[pcosmar]

Only someone who has never been involved in a third-party run could say something like that. Go look at how much exposure and how many votes Dr. Paul got in 1988 on the Libertarian ticket; or go look for the same info for the 2004 Libertarian or Constitutional Party candidates.

It has nothing to do with the republican party.
It has everything to do with the Grassroots effort. The party has opposed us, Ron, and everything we have been doing.
They have been IN THE WAY. They can join us or become irrelevant.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

The GOP TROLLS are out in full force on the board today!

Don't listen to these GOP party hacks trying to discourage an independent run. The GOP has treated Ron like a disease, and they are about to get a huge wakeup call.

Ron Paul has a solid chance of actually WINNING in Novemeber with an independent run, instead of what these GOP trolls want him to do, which is to give up.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

Only someone who has never been involved in a third-party run could say something like that. Go look at how much exposure and how many votes Dr. Paul got in 1988 on the Libertarian ticket; or go look for the same info for the 2004 Libertarian or Constitutional Party candidates.

The times have changed. The GOP is in a freefall, spending and wars are out of control, and the internet has changed EVERYTHING. Ross Perot could have won in 1992, and he still picked up about 20 MILLION votes in the general election, even after dropping out of the race! We can do even better than that, and teach the big-government, endless-war, civil-rights trampling GOP a lesson they will never forget.

Ron Paul can WIN this November if we back his independent run!

Please don't troll this board telling us Ron can't win and that he should just give up if the GOP doesn't nominate him. F*ck that! The GOP has treated Ron like dirt!

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

This is true. Very true. His association with republicans has been anything but helpful with our grassroots efforts.



Only someone who has never been involved in a third-party run could say something like that. Go look at how much exposure and how many votes Dr. Paul got in 1988 on the Libertarian ticket; or go look for the same info for the 2004 Libertarian or Constitutional Party candidates.


That only tells me that you know absolutely nothing about me.

But, I'll add something to my earlier statement. Yes, it gave him the small push he needed to get a grassroots following. But his association with republicans has not helped him in the last 5-6 months. They are dead set against him. His party has tried to stop him from being elected to congress. It's not a new thing that they actively work against Paul, even though he's the only bright spot in their entire field of candidates in terms of fundraising and real support from real supporters.

I stand by this absolutely:

His association with republicans has been anything but helpful with our grassroots efforts.

[spivey378]

great post

even if he makes a 3rd party push we can still take over the vulnerable GOP

[FreeTraveler]

Why do you assume that because I advocate taking over the Republican Party, I won't support Dr. Paul in a third-party run? One of these issues is short-term, the other is long-term, and they are not mutually exclusive.


The times have changed. The GOP is in a freefall, spending and wars are out of control, and the internet has changed EVERYTHING. Ross Perot could have won in 1992, and he still picked up about 20 MILLION votes in the general election, even after dropping out of the race! We can do even better than that, and teach the big-government, endless-war, civil-rights trampling GOP a lesson they will never forget.

Ron Paul can WIN this November if we back his independent run!

Please don't troll this board telling us Ron can't win and that he should just give up if the GOP doesn't nominate him. F*ck that! The GOP has treated Ron like dirt!

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

Why do you assume that because I advocate taking over the Republican Party, I won't support Dr. Paul in a third-party run? One of these issues is short-term, the other is long-term, and they are not mutually exclusive.

Sorry, yes, I agree with this. I think the independent run is what will send shockwaves through the GOP. They will stop mocking us and treating us like a disease, in the hopes that we will not continue to run candidates against them in the general elections. It's clear right now that the GOP has zero respect for Ron or our message. That will all change soon.

[WRellim]

I am only associated with the GOP because of Ron Paul. Once this election is over I am completely disenfranchised with it. I don't care about it and frankly it needs to go.

The above is what I refer to as the "groundhog" mentality.

In understand it because I've been there... for many years I've been there.

Groundhog you say? Yes... it's a routine where every four years (and sometimes eight years) you pop your head above the political landscape HOPING for it to be "springtime" -- see some shadow that spooks you, and then duck back underground again.

It's the Ralph Nader, Ross Perot, and Libertarian Party philosophy -- every four years they work like the dickens to build up a national extra-major-party political structure, waste most of their effort just trying to be heard and get on the ballot -- attempt to sieze the crown and the kingship (which will magically solve everything) -- and then after failing... they become depressed and scatter (or try to stay together and get divided over egos and minor irrelevant points and split there effort into two or more separate factions).

And all the while, the major parties keep virtually ALL of the local offices, use them as training grounds and mines for upper level candidates and RULE over everything above ground as suits them.

Well, THIS TIME, I not only peeked above ground, but I climbed OUT of the HOLE and found that the shadow is only a "scarecrow" put there on purpose to keep me below ground.

AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

I prefer the Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan example; the RON PAUL example. THIS TIME, I'm staying ABOVE ground -- and IN the party -- VOICING MY OPINIONS as eloquently as I can. They wanna keep the party alive, they're gonna NEED US to do so, and if we stick together, WE CAN BEGIN TO DICTATE TERMS.


But if y'all wanna duck back underground again and wait for the farmer to bring the garden hose and flood you out... so be it. (Something tells me you didn't do much more than peek out anyway. BOO! :eek: )

[Rob]

I encourage everyone reading this thread to read the "Take Over the GOP" thread I started and join the Republican Liberty Caucus. Ron Paul himself is a member!

[WRellim]

Sorry, yes, I agree with this. I think the independent run is what will send shockwaves through the GOP. They will stop mocking us and treating us like a disease, in the hopes that we will not continue to run candidates against them in the general elections. It's clear right now that the GOP has zero respect for Ron or our message. That will all change soon.

No... what they will do is use you (and Ron Paul) as the scapegoat reason for WHY they lost to the Democrats...

Just like the Democrats use Ralph Nader as the whipping-boy for why they lost in 2000.

And as a result, they will HATE the message of Liberty that much more... and it will take EVEN LONGER to free this country.


Now Ron Paul will decide to do whatever he decides to do -- but to me he is a smart man, and as he is running for Congress again, AS A REPUBLICAN again... I think (as he has said REPEATEDLY) that he is in this for the LONG HAUL -- and failing the nomination or a major move at the convention -- then he will STILL be around in CONGRESS, but hopefully this time as the "head" of a new (albeit small but doughty) faction of LIBERTY-MINDED Republican congressmen.

And you want to abandon him.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Sorry, yes, I agree with this. I think the independent run is what will send shockwaves through the GOP. They will stop mocking us and treating us like a disease, in the hopes that we will not continue to run candidates against them in the general elections. It's clear right now that the GOP has zero respect for Ron or our message.


Zero respect is putting it mildly.

[Michael Ingram]

I agree completely

+1776

[XelR8r]

Uh, no...

You could take over every single local GOP chapter, elect every city, state, and national official as a "Ron Paul Rep." and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. You think Rove and Ailes are going to run away? They will use you and your elected as tools, they wrote the book. You're gonna show up looking for directions newbie, and the boy's are gonna work you like Geppeto.

Ask Nader how that taking back the party shit works out.

No, a fresh face with brand new power brokers is the only way. It's all about the money. The GOP is about to lose all power, they will then lose all funding from the Military industrial Complex, broken banks, busted real estate sharks, etc. Money follows power, Ron Paul supporters are power. We can do what ever we want as long as we stay united.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

No... what they will do is use you (and Ron Paul) as the scapegoat reason for WHY they lost to the Democrats...

Just like the Democrats use Ralph Nader as the whipping-boy for why they lost in 2000.

And as a result, they will HATE the message of Liberty that much more... and it will take EVEN LONGER to free this country.

Now Ron Paul will decide to do whatever he decides to do -- but to me he is a smart man, and as he is running for Congress again, AS A REPUBLICAN again... I think (as he has said REPEATEDLY) that he is in this for the LONG HAUL -- and failing the nomination or a major move at the convention -- then he will STILL be around in CONGRESS, but hopefully this time as the "head" of a new (albeit small but doughty) faction of LIBERTY-MINDED Republican congressmen.

And you want to abandon him.

You are the one who is abandoning Ron's race for the White House. You want him to take his beatings and whippings from these cackling, war-mongering GOP douchebags who mock and mistreat him, then silently slink back to his worthless seat in the congress where all he can do is lodge "protest votes." I would rather get Ron INTO the White House.

Ron Paul has about 10% name recognition nationwide. When I canvass here in OC, 90% of the houses don't know anything about him. This campaign has only begun, and you are trying to urge people to quit!!!

It's the White House or bust in 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who gives a shit what the GOP thinks of us??? They already treat us like dirt.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

No... what they will do is use you (and Ron Paul) as the scapegoat reason for WHY they lost to the Democrats...

Just like the Democrats use Ralph Nader as the whipping-boy for why they lost in 2000.

And as a result, they will HATE the message of Liberty that much more... and it will take EVEN LONGER to free this country.

So, let me get this straight. You have a group of people that you fear will lie about you. As a result of that fear, you want to do what? Infiltrate them and change their sphere of influence? Or maybe I don't understand that.

If I were to find someone telling lies about me, I'd confront them with truth. The fear that people will tell lies about me... there's seriously not time in the day to worry about that, let alone plan my future actions around such a scenario. Maybe you'd call it short sighted, but most people would call me absolutely paranoid with that type of thought process.

Look. There's nothing wrong with liberty minded people staying in the GOP and trying to help it along. Paul running independent only helps that along as more people are exposed to the message. As more people are exposed to that message, it's a good thing for people who wish to stay in the GOP and change it from within. An independent Paul run is good for GOP reformers.

[WRellim]

Uh, no...

You could take over every single local GOP chapter, elect every city, state, and national official as a "Ron Paul Rep." and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. You think Rove and Ailes are going to run away? They will use you and your elected as tools, they wrote the book. You're gonna show up looking for directions newbie, and the boy's are gonna work you like Geppeto.

Ask Nader how that taking back the party shit works out.

No, a fresh face with brand new power brokers is the only way. It's all about the money. The GOP is about to lose all power, they will then lose all funding from the Military industrial Complex, broken banks, busted real estate sharks, etc. Money follows power, Ron Paul supporters are power. We can do what ever we want as long as we stay united.


Gee, sounds GREAT XelR8r...

Which way are you turning?

Is Ron Pal going to run Libertarian Party? (Which part of the Libertarian party I might add -- Most of CATO supports the war and HATES Ron Paul much more than the Republican party does).

Or are you going to run him as Constitution Party? (Do you know which points on there platform are in agreement with Ron Paul and which parts are anathema to him?)

Or perhaps you want to try to use the remnants of the Reform Party? (The old Ross Perot shell that was fractured into 1000 pieces by Pat Buchanan).

Or some type of hodge-podge "fusion" candidacy?

Or you're planning on creating your OWN party... with < 100,000 strong (not everyone will come along you know).

Or perhaps Ron has other plans -- perhaps he plans on "storming" the convention and if necessary leaving with a "Rump" portion of the Republican Party itself (it has definitely happened in brokered conventions!) At the very least this would give him potentially a LOT more exposure via the Convention dust-up and the drama and it's aftermath being played out on LIVE TV nationwide -- certainly a LOT more than he would get by running independent NOW.


Whichever choice that would be made would LOSE a portion of his support... 10% (or perhaps more) would stay behind in the GOP, another 10% might abhor the LP, or the CP -- and a significant number would laugh (wisely) at a completely independent run. Strangely enough the Rump Party might give him the most support of all.


But now here we come down to brass tacks: Has Ron Paul actually given you even a HINT of which of the above would entice him? Which way he would turn?


Or has he instead been telling us all to GET INVOLVED, to BECOME DELEGATES and local REPUBLICAN PARTY PEOPLE... (which does NOT mean blindly voting the party line, Ron Paul never has, but he has remained viable in the party).


Hmm... Who exactly is it that wants this Independent, 3rd party run? Ron Paul? Or You?

Perhaps if Ron Paul is some type of -- what did you call us, "GOP TROLLS" (I'm certain Ron would appreciate that wonderful label, having been a GOP party member most of his life) -- yes, then perhaps he would NOT care for your attitude, and might not take too much cognizance of your opinions.


Truth is, your colors are showing. You did not follow Ron's advice -- you did NOT join your local GOP, you are not part of the effort to become or elect delegates for him, and you are not really trying to help him turn the GOP ship around, are you... Instead all you are is a "supporter" who has maybe donated and then spent a lot of time calling Ron Paul and those who DID follow Ron Paul's advice... GOP TROLLS!

Hmmmm...

[WRellim]

You are the one who is abandoning Ron's race for the White House. You want him to take his beatings and whippings from these cackling, war-mongering GOP douchebags who mock and mistreat him, then silently slink back to his worthless seat in the congress where all he can do is lodge "protest votes." I would rather get Ron INTO the White House.

Ron Paul has about 10% name recognition nationwide. When I canvass here in OC, 90% of the houses don't know anything about him. This campaign has only begun, and you are trying to urge people to quit!!!

It's the White House or bust in 2008!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who gives a shit what the GOP thinks of us??? They already treat us like dirt.


Really, at what GOP event were you, personally, treated like dirt?


Truth be told, the only time I've been treated with ANYTHING less than respect by a Republican was at a private briefing (where I had prepaid my $1K per person "donation") after a Ron Paul rally ...and the offending "snobbish" people were Ron's Campaign Chairman and Campaign Manager.

I am treated with great respect, and even a willingness to listen to my political arguments and positions and beliefs by virtually every Republican I have encountered, whether it is the various members in my local county party, my County GOP chairman, the District Chairman, and even the State Party Chairman -- indeed, even in strong disagreements with my Congressman, I am still treated respectfully.

They are nowhere near as rude and uncouth as you are (see above posts... you so quickly descend into name-calling, and over-generalizations, why?)

You see, with every word you write, you really just emphasize more and more that you have probably NOT participated in ANY of your local party events. (And you are quite possibly constructing your picture of what a "Republican" is entirely from your own imagination and Hollywood movies... or who knows where.)

You want Ron Paul to do these things for you... but you are unwilling to do much for him (certainly haven't done much of anything he has asked regarding becoming a party member and worked towards being a delegate, have you? Perhaps that is why you are so anxious for an independent run.)

[Goldwater64]

What I mean by this: Do you know HOW Barack Obama became a United States Senator?

Simple: He stayed IN THE RACE. He was not expected to win against well-funded Jack Ryan... then a little unexpected "scandal" thing happened on the way to the coronation, his crown got broken, and Jack Ryan left the race, virtually handing it to Obama. Republicans scrambled... but Obama won mainly because he was there.


Sort of, but not exactly. Obama was ahead of Ryan before the scandal forced Ryan out.

[John P Slevin]

The hardest part of promoting Ron Paul has been his association with the republican party.
more often than not, as soon as people saw Republican on fliers or SlimJims I heard NO THANKS.
The Republican Party has a lot of negative baggage.
I was hoping that the party would embrace Ron, but they have done just the opposite.
I support Ron Paul, PERIOD....

Listen up you stupid GOPers. Thanks for this post.

[dblee]

Op +1000

[sdczen]

Many people here will only vote for Ron Paul. Whether he is the Republican nominee, 3rd party or write-in. The simple fact is that the 'party' system has failed us all. It has made the majority of Americans apathetic and lazy. Most of the population feel just fine about pulling the lever for their respective parties. Most do not even understand why or whom they are pulling said lever.

Realistically; Dr. Paul should stay in the GOP primary race until the end. Go all the way to the convention. If, after the convention there is a good opening to run 3rd party, then I say he should do it and we all should support him till the end. HOWEVER, if Dr. Paul decides NOT to run 3rd party after the convention, then this just HIGHLIGHTS the desperate need for a 3rd, 4th or 5th party. We simply cannot afford to allow the status quo to continue. Otherwise, we'll be thrown back into our apathetic cycle.

This movement is fantastic and will continue far beyond the elections this year. I would suggest we continue to grow in numbers, get elected locally & nationally. This is the beginning of a fantastic network. Whether it be in business or political. Stick together and fight on!

[thexjib]

Please don't troll this board telling us Ron can't win and that he should just give up if the GOP doesn't nominate him. F*ck that! The GOP has treated Ron like dirt!


the GOP has treated US like dirt....

[slantedview]

changing the party from within is exactly what needs to be done.

this is the type of thing that G. Edward Griffin advocates. Taking over the country from within, basically what the CFR has done, except we'd do it to further the cause of freedom, not collectivism and world government.

[RickyJ]

not sure how to write in a candidate if my state uses damn machines).


You can do it. I did in 2004 on Diebold machines. I don't know if my vote was counted, but I voted for Peroutka anyway.

[pacelli]

Ah, the GOP argument. If you guys don't see Ron Paul as the only true conservative running, then you've been bought off by somebody. I'll vote the way you tell me to vote when you endorse Ron Paul as the most conservative GOP candidate. You don't want Hillary Clinton to win, do you? I'm not a GOP loyalist-- the GOP should be loyalists to members of their own party.

[amonasro]

I think it's Ron Paul's decision, and I'll support whatever he decides. The country's in real trouble. I'm sure he'll make a wise choice based on years of experience in the political arena and a vast amount of knowledge on the current state of the union.

BAM. End of story. 100% agree. Let's cross the independent bridge when we reach it.

[Gustogus]

Uh, no...

You could take over every single local GOP chapter, elect every city, state, and national official as a "Ron Paul Rep." and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. You think Rove and Ailes are going to run away? They will use you and your elected as tools, they wrote the book. You're gonna show up looking for directions newbie, and the boy's are gonna work you like Geppeto.

Ask Nader how that taking back the party shit works out.

No, a fresh face with brand new power brokers is the only way. It's all about the money. The GOP is about to lose all power, they will then lose all funding from the Military industrial Complex, broken banks, busted real estate sharks, etc. Money follows power, Ron Paul supporters are power. We can do what ever we want as long as we stay united.

I'd rather ask Howard Dean...

I'm not sure people realize Obama was a Deaniac who later made the short list of the Dean Dozen in 2004.

DFA (Howard Deans campaign turned PAC) has been a force within the democratic party pushing a more fervent progressive agenda....

This is the kind of bottum up change we could have on the Republican Party. There is a major political party with all the massive groundwork laid for pushing an agenda. Right now they have fallen out of favor with the general public, and is therefore ripe for change, but never doubt that the groundwork is still all there.

Its not a matter or numbers, its a matter of activity, The neo-cons aren't a "majority" in the republican party, they are just the most vociferous, followed closely by the evangels. The fiscally conservative, small government wing of the party is probably just as numerous, just not nearly as loud. We don't have talk radio shows or sunday pulpits..... what we do have is the internet.

The neo-cons had there shot, as did the evangels, this is our oppurtunity to make the next election ours. It starts by using this medium of ours (don't kid yourself, the internet is ours) and pushing it into every corner of every republican election from here till the next nomination.

Dr. Paul has lit a fire to not only change this election, but to change the face of the party for years to come.

If we don't take advantage of it we only have ourselves to blame. I wish the best for Dr. Paul and will follow him wherever he decides to go this election cycle, but that doesn't mean I can't start planning for the next election.. the next state and congressional elections. This movement needs a farm team, and if we let the oppurtunity slip by us (the multitude of oppurtunities) because we're upset at how the MSM treated us we're not near as smart as we claim to be.

[pennycat]

I'd rather ask Howard Dean...

I'm not sure people realize Obama was a Deaniac who later made the short list of the Dean Dozen in 2004.

DFA (Howard Deans campaign turned PAC) has been a force within the democratic party pushing a more fervent progressive agenda....

This is the kind of bottum up change we could have on the Republican Party. There is a major political party with all the massive groundwork laid for pushing an agenda. Right now they have fallen out of favor with the general public, and is therefore ripe for change, but never doubt that the groundwork is still all there.

Its not a matter or numbers, its a matter of activity, The neo-cons aren't a "majority" in the republican party, they are just the most vociferous, followed closely by the evangels. The fiscally conservative, small government wing of the party is probably just as numerous, just not nearly as loud. We don't have talk radio shows or sunday pulpits..... what we do have is the internet.

The neo-cons had there shot, as did the evangels, this is our oppurtunity to make the next election ours. It starts by using this medium of ours (don't kid yourself, the internet is ours) and pushing it into every corner of every republican election from here till the next nomination.

Dr. Paul has lit a fire to not only change this election, but to change the face of the party for years to come.

If we don't take advantage of it we only have ourselves to blame. I wish the best for Dr. Paul and will follow him wherever he decides to go this election cycle, but that doesn't mean I can't start planning for the next election.. the next state and congressional elections. This movement needs a farm team, and if we let the oppurtunity slip by us (the multitude of oppurtunities) because we're upset at how the MSM treated us we're not near as smart as we claim to be.

One of the best posts I've ever read here! I'd also like to add that while some won't join our struggle to redirect the Republican party, many in our meetup groups are up for this. And I'm not just guessing, I'm in contact with most of the Florida meetup organizers and this is the path that most of us will be taking.

[WRellim]

One of the best posts I've ever read here! I'd also like to add that while some won't join our struggle to redirect the Republican party, many in our meetup groups are up for this. And I'm not just guessing, I'm in contact with most of the Florida meetup organizers and this is the path that most of us will be taking.

I liked it too... it is from someone who UNDERSTANDS that the GOP was hijacked by the neocons faction, after the Evangelical faction was "duped" into promoting GWB, and the Republithug faction (muscle servants of neocons) did the shenanigans in FL (and again in OH in 2004).

The problem as I see it, both from the "wide-view" of the forums, as well as the "close-view" of my own and nearby meetups is something like this. The RP supporters who are MOST vocal in wanting RP to run independent/3rd Party are the same ones who:

1) Never really liked (in fact HATED) that he is a Republican to begin with.

2) NEVER went along with ANY of the "program" of joining the party, becoming delegates, etc.

3) Basically (and YES, this is a generalization) are the faction of supporters who are really more about being "protesters" than doing anything to help the campaign -- i.e. around here they LOVE doing the "Chasing Rudy" thing, they like doing sign waves and marches and big signs and banners... any loud and or noisy or disruptive -- BUT they absolutely refuse to canvass door-to-door (or help at flea markets or other "lame" things that actually reach voters)!

4) They have wanted Ron to break off and run independent since the first day that they learned about him (hence they do not want to "waste" the effort of joining the party, etc).

5) Since he HASN'T left the party, and it is starting to look obvious that (in part) the fact that they never "got with the plan" is hurting him -- rather than reflect on their own failures, they would rather sacrifice the hard work put in by others (supporters as well as OTHER "RP Candidates" for Congress, etc.) -- because that would justify their own NON-involvement very nicely.

6) For the most part, they don't understand ANYTHING about the whole "election thing" and how people are chosen for President in this country (electors, delegates, caucuses, primaries -- its all too confusing).

7) They will jump ship for someone (anyone?) who IS running 3rd Party the instant they have a chance to -- especially if that person mentions the trigger word "conspiracy" etc.

8) I am coming to the conclusion that most are NOT worth the bother -- they will be "groundhogs" again and again -- and are only slightly more useful (?) than the sheeple in general (because both are an asset AND a liability).


ALL of that said, in my own heart, I truly WISH the Libertarian and/or Constitution Party WAS a viable option. In actual FACT that is where my heart lives.

BUT, the platform of the Republican party contains all the right words -- much like the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence before them. The MAJOR problem with all FOUR of those documents is that they are treated as "words on paper" by the candidates who succeed in being elected to office. The documents have no "TEETH" and they all require the PEOPLE to stay ACTIVE participants and to use their own VOICES, WALLETS, and endorsements/condemnations as the only form of "teeth" available.

[pennycat]

I think that one reason some of our movement doesn't want to do the 'Republican' party thing is because they don't see it as a fun activity. And to be fair, there is nothing like having 30-50 people take over a street corner.

What I think might help is explaining what is happening and show that we really are having an effect. If we can't demonstrate changes to these reluctant patriots, then perhaps they are right and going to the Republican party IS a waste. I think I can explain this, but I'll be the first to admit when this action is no longer yielding results.