View Full Version : Democratic debate now on MSNBC
SWATH
08-07-2007, 04:57 PM
Discuss the future of the new socialist America here.
FreedomLover
08-07-2007, 05:17 PM
what sounds better to you guys, obama/clinton, or clinton/obama ?
SWATH
08-07-2007, 05:19 PM
They all sound like a bunch of pander bears to the unions
Let's spend 40 Billion on this...let's spend 40 billion on that.
Where the F is that money gonna come from??
JosephTheLibertarian
08-07-2007, 05:20 PM
Discuss the future of the new socialist America here.
heh they'd lynch me if I were up there with meh free market principles :D what a bunch of jackasses, tax payers paying for sports stadiums? That's stupid.
jj111
08-07-2007, 05:21 PM
I think the Republican base is deluding themselves if they think anybody other than Ron can beat these Dems.
SeanEdwards
08-07-2007, 05:22 PM
Richardson: "I would make sure no wage disparity exists!"
It's just heartwarming to hear a Presidential candidate declare that he wants the authority to set wage levels.
mport1
08-07-2007, 05:22 PM
I can't watch this. I got really depressed last time thinking that one of these people will probably become President.
SWATH
08-07-2007, 05:23 PM
Biden: "the president's job is to create jobs"
SWATH
08-07-2007, 05:24 PM
Where the hell is Gravel?
Ron Paul Fan
08-07-2007, 05:24 PM
Where the hell is Gravel?
He wasn't invited.
JosephTheLibertarian
08-07-2007, 05:25 PM
notice how no one condemned NAFTA but socialist Kucinich? They're dancing
Lord Xar
08-07-2007, 05:26 PM
Let's spend 40 Billion on this...let's spend 40 billion on that.
Where the F is that money gonna come from??
YOU and ME! Who else?
See, socialism is the great lie..... it creates a HUGE base of poor, or lets say -- needy people, very few sit in the middle, and a select few own it all...
The one thing people don't get is, the more people who are needy and dependent the more powerful the government becomes... amnesty would have strengthened the government tremendously.
Socialism will breed contempt and mediocrity....
jj111
08-07-2007, 05:26 PM
Glad some of you have the stomach to watch this debate. Thanks, now I don't have to watch the garbage.
Wyurm
08-07-2007, 05:26 PM
Where the hell is Gravel?
Gravel is the democratic party's outcast. They don't like him because he thinks they are insane when they talk about using nukes and such. Can't be having any of that kind of talk in the "anti-war" party.
JosephTheLibertarian
08-07-2007, 05:26 PM
Hillary just said she's takin it all in ;) lol
Chase
08-07-2007, 05:27 PM
Democratic plan to fix our infrastructure: take billions and billions of deficit dollars to pay the workers, take away everyone's guns and ammo, melt them down, and use the molten metal to reinforce the structures.
JosephTheLibertarian
08-07-2007, 05:28 PM
I feel bad for Gravel.. the most decent guy running for their party gets ousted ugh
SWATH
08-07-2007, 05:28 PM
I'm about to turn it off, I really do get angry and depressed watching this crap. What a bunch of arrogant pricks.
Richandler
08-07-2007, 05:28 PM
Wow, Clinton just pulled off the biggest BS stump speech.
Clinton is just Guiliani but instead of "9/11" and "terrorists" she says "Bush administration" and "right-wing machine."
JosephTheLibertarian
08-07-2007, 05:30 PM
stadium: let the free market build it
china: leave them alone and allow free trade
NAFTA: eliminate it
WTO: eliminate it
the funny thing is that workers would prosper most under a Dr. Paul administration, yet they don't know it LOL
Chase
08-07-2007, 05:30 PM
Oh my, we owe China money to pay for the war? I've never heard that before!!!
SWATH
08-07-2007, 05:31 PM
Notice how all of these jokers constantly say "we need to do this, we need to do that", whereas Ron Paul constantly says "we don't need to be doing this or that"
Damn I was just wanting to see Gravel rake these fools over the coals.
Is this an "official" debate? It says its a "forum". Like the thing RP was excluded from.
isufferfromronpaulfever
08-07-2007, 05:33 PM
Hillary says she doesn't want bad toy's from China. So does Edwards! Big joke.
mport1
08-07-2007, 05:33 PM
Couldn't keep away. This is sickening. They have NO idea what they are talking about.
Notice how all of these jokers constantly say "we need to do this, we need to do that", whereas Ron Paul constantly says "we don't need to be doing this or that"
Damn I was just wanting to see Gravel rake these fools over the coals.
Yeah im gonna have to stop watching if Gravel isn't there. I dont particularly like his politics, but he's a great "check" against the frontrunners most of the time, calling them out.
SeanEdwards
08-07-2007, 05:33 PM
Now they're all talking abut how CHINA manipulates its currency. :rolleyes:
SWATH
08-07-2007, 05:33 PM
Kucinich is on a roll
YOU and ME! Who else?
See, socialism is the great lie..... it creates a HUGE base of poor, or lets say -- needy people, very few sit in the middle, and a select few own it all...
The one thing people don't get is, the more people who are needy and dependent the more powerful the government becomes... amnesty would have strengthened the government tremendously.
Socialism will breed contempt and mediocrity....
It was a rhetorical question. It really needed no reply. :D
pazzo83
08-07-2007, 05:37 PM
Kucinich is on a roll
He's the only one I respect. I disagree with like 80% of his positions, but he's the only non-politician out there. He's a real person, like RP.
jj111
08-07-2007, 05:38 PM
Democratic plan to fix our infrastructure: take billions and billions of deficit dollars to pay the workers, take away everyone's guns and ammo, melt them down, and use the molten metal to reinforce the structures.
I think those police will keep those guns and ammo for themselves. A fringe benefit for the police state.
Ron Paul Fan
08-07-2007, 05:38 PM
Kucinich is on a roll
He's calling out all of them for not giving straight answers and I like it. Look for him to be the crowd favorite again on the Iraq war topic as he's the only one serious about troop withdrawal. I wish Gravel was here as well to call out the frontrunners.
Dartan
08-07-2007, 05:38 PM
"if you dig a hole deep enough, you get to china. We're there"
nice
Lord Xar
08-07-2007, 05:40 PM
He's calling out all of them for not giving straight answers and I like it. Look for him to be the crowd favorite again on the Iraq war topic as he's the only one serious about troop withdrawal. I wish Gravel was here as well to call out the frontrunners.
Maybe he will be omitted from the next debates....
notice how he is NEVER in the media too!
FreedomLover
08-07-2007, 05:40 PM
This is what it's come to. The idiotic fringe in both the democratic and republican parties have become the parties themselves, and only one man remains to put these fools in their place.
We'll need a Ron paul candidate for the next 50 elections to right the wrongs these self-righteous special-interests bufoons will (and already have) inflict on the country.
jj111
08-07-2007, 05:41 PM
Who said the China line?
And how did they get away with excluding Gravel?
Richandler
08-07-2007, 05:42 PM
Kucinich is on a roll
Seriously if he doesn't get some recognition after the debate we need to throw it into the massive amounts of censorship in the media evidence.
kalami
08-07-2007, 05:44 PM
Apparently, if we elect Biden he will serve as president for two countries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Joe_Biden#Iraq
GODDAMN i hate Bush too ,but can Clinton say anything without mentioning him?
Johnnybags
08-07-2007, 05:47 PM
on the demcrap sites, I actually would pick him over the other jokers any day. Lets give Dennis a nice boost later on. Shall we?
Dartan
08-07-2007, 05:49 PM
Does Clinton's big fake smile scare the hell out of anyone else?
isufferfromronpaulfever
08-07-2007, 05:50 PM
Obama just doesn't have it.
They boo'd Clinton, yay! But that's probably cause it's Obama's home town.
jj111
08-07-2007, 05:52 PM
Ticket will of course be Clinton/Obama.
Only Ron Paul can save us from the next wave of totalitarianism.
Johnnybags
08-07-2007, 05:52 PM
front by 11 lengths, gets his backers excited and then stops, fading fast. I cannot believe an empty suit could even go this far but with the MSM as a jockey, it sure helps.
jj111
08-07-2007, 05:53 PM
They boo'd Clinton, yay! But that's probably cause it's Obama's home town.
Now that I want to see on You Tube!
What did they boo her for?
MEBuckeye
08-07-2007, 05:53 PM
She just said "you shouldn't always say everything you think if your running for president".
Gee thanks for the transparency?
kalami
08-07-2007, 05:54 PM
msnbc.com has a live feed, but it's down
wow i cant believe Biden used that womens question to spout his crap about pakistan.. that is rude and insulting IMO.
Starks
08-07-2007, 05:57 PM
Poor Biden, the crowd hates him...
ShaneC
08-07-2007, 05:58 PM
on the demcrap sites, I actually would pick him over the other jokers any day. Lets give Dennis a nice boost later on. Shall we?
Send me some links. I don't agree with everything he wants, but I'd take him over any of the other Dems on that stage tonight.
UCFGavin
08-07-2007, 05:59 PM
i want to see the debate :( kucinich and gravel are the only two of the democrats i have any respect for.
kalami
08-07-2007, 06:00 PM
gee I wonder why VA is poorly runned...
isufferfromronpaulfever
08-07-2007, 06:01 PM
i want to see the debate :( kucinich and gravel are the only two of the democrats i have any respect for.
It's a shame Gravel didn't make this debate. Kucinich is kicking ass though.
Starks
08-07-2007, 06:02 PM
Kucinich has great ideas, but he looks like a damn troll...
Awww, feel sorry for that dude :(.
UCFGavin
08-07-2007, 06:02 PM
It's a shame Gravel didn't make this debate. Kucinich is kicking ass though.
kucinich and gravel always perform well at the debates. its a shame kucinich's domestic policy sucks, i would consider voting for him.
ARealConservative
08-07-2007, 06:03 PM
every question is being delivered by a crybaby now.
I can't stomach how weak the average American has become.
every question is being delivered by a crybaby now.
I can't stomach how weak the average American has become.
The guy was screwed over because of the American system that we need to change.
Bluedevil
08-07-2007, 06:05 PM
God I hate Edwards, he is an embarassment to my state.
The guy was screwed over because of the American system that we need to change.
No kidding, that man was NOT a crybaby, hes been screwed. Hes routing for the wrong team however, but cut him some slack.
Dartan
08-07-2007, 06:06 PM
She got booed again for admitting she voted against privatized Social Security.
Starks
08-07-2007, 06:06 PM
God I hate Edwards, he is an embarassment to my state.
The Democrats are supposed to be the lesser of 2 evils... Why do you hate him?
MEBuckeye
08-07-2007, 06:08 PM
No kidding, that man was NOT a crybaby, hes been screwed. Hes routing for the wrong team however, but cut him some slack.
The man said he still has 2/3 of his pension left. He may not be able to afford full health care but he can buy emergency health insurance for himself and his spouse. Also, he said his wife has contributed 30 years to their family. That means they have adult children. Go to them for charity, not me.
Starks
08-07-2007, 06:10 PM
The man said he still has 2/3 of his pension left. He may not be able to afford full health care but he can buy emergency health insurance for himself and his spouse. Also, he said his wife has contributed 30 years to their family. That means they have adult children. Go to them for charity, not me.
You're right, to an extent. That guy should be sucking the teats of AARP and Medicaid.
The man said he still has 2/3 of his pension left. He may not be able to afford full health care but he can buy emergency health insurance for himself and his spouse. Also, he said his wife has contributed 30 years to their family. That means they have adult children. Go to them for charity, not me.
Well ok then.. i admit im only half watching this thing. I missed the part where he said he had 2/3 left.. sue me! :)
austinphish
08-07-2007, 06:14 PM
Seriously - no Gravel? That is outrageous.
Starks
08-07-2007, 06:14 PM
Wow... Biden is getting zero love tonight...
kalami
08-07-2007, 06:16 PM
These guys lack a very basic understanding in economics. For example, Unions are generally bad for the economy and share a lot of the "evils" associated with corporations. How would it look if the Republicans participated in a debate hosted by GE or Ford?
Richandler
08-07-2007, 06:16 PM
Yah the more I watch this the more I see it as just a bunch of people saying, "some things in my life suck please fix everything so I don't have to have responisbility."
Damn Hillary just called everyones kids a walking test.
Starks
08-07-2007, 06:17 PM
These guys lack a very basic understanding in economics. For example, Unions are generally bad for the economy and share a lot of the "evils" associated with corporations. How would it look if the Republicans participated in a debate hosted by GE or Ford?
I disagree.
Without unions, corporations would trample all over the laboring class. Unions are needed to keep corporations in check and even cancel out their underhanded policies.
kalami
08-07-2007, 06:20 PM
I disagree.
Without unions, corporations would trample all over the laboring class. Unions are needed to keep corporations in check and even cancel out their underhanded policies.
I'm not arguing one for the other. Unions are pretty damaging. They slow economic growth through raising prices and creating unemployment, and have the lobby power to protect their labor monopolies.
MEBuckeye
08-07-2007, 06:21 PM
Well ok then.. i admit im only half watching this thing. I missed the part where he said he had 2/3 left.. sue me!
Sorry, I got a little worked up. I guess I'll admit that the current system is screwing him a little. If the free market were allowed to exist, his premiums could be lower.
FreedomLover
08-07-2007, 06:21 PM
Would you rather the candidates give the workers the middle finger and say "**** OFF!" from their podiums?
And yes... I believe in personal responsibility...
I would rather they didnt do either.
SeanEdwards
08-07-2007, 06:22 PM
Olbermann is a good moderator. I like how he told Osama to stfu.
Swmorgan77
08-07-2007, 06:23 PM
Biden: "the president's job is to create jobs"
LOL. Well I wish Bush would do his job and free up his own then... along with Cheny's right after Ron Paul is named speaker of the House.
kalami
08-07-2007, 06:24 PM
Olbermann is a good moderator. I like how he told Osama to stfu.
Are you kidding? This has been the most unrestrained debate i've seen.
Starks
08-07-2007, 06:24 PM
I'm not arguing one for the other. Unions are pretty damaging. They slow economic growth through raising prices and creating unemployment, and have the lobby power to protect their labor monopolies.
What alternatives would you suggest? I can't think of any other way to effectively protect the rights of workers without hogtying the corporate elites.
SeanEdwards
08-07-2007, 06:25 PM
Are you kidding? This has been the most unrestrained debate i've seen.
Really? I wasn't watching that closely. I just saw him slap Osama mid-bombast and thought it was cool.
Sorry, I got a little worked up. I guess I'll admit that the current system is screwing him a little. If the free market were allowed to exist, his premiums could be lower.
No biggie! Were all friends here :) Right on about the free-markets!
Johnnybags
08-07-2007, 06:26 PM
At least he exhibits some thought process.
Starks
08-07-2007, 06:26 PM
Damn It Dennis! Stay On The Damn Question!
rajibo
08-07-2007, 06:31 PM
I will not be able to deal with four years of Hillary's squawking if she is elected.
kalami
08-07-2007, 06:32 PM
What alternatives would you suggest? I can't think of any other way to effectively protect the rights of workers without hogtying the corporate elites.
You should reframe your statement as "effectively protect the rights of due paying members" because Unions are hateful towards non-members, thus they don't protect the rights of workers in general. I'm not trying to justify the abuses committed by corporations, but I do know that those abuses can only occur with the compliance of the government through favorable court rulings and non-enforcement of the laws.
Starks
08-07-2007, 06:35 PM
Didn't Edwards bring up this story at the Youtube debate.
pazzo83
08-07-2007, 06:36 PM
Hahah, oh Kucinich
Starks
08-07-2007, 06:37 PM
Hahah, oh Kucinich
You scoff at getting rid of NAFTA and the WTO?
kalami
08-07-2007, 06:38 PM
Hahah, oh Kucinich
Wow a "worker's whitehouse." Not only do these guys need to read a basic economics book, they also need to read a history book that covers the Soviet Union and it's demise.
pazzo83
08-07-2007, 06:45 PM
You scoff at getting rid of NAFTA and the WTO?
Nah, I agree with that, I mean I respect Kucinich, I disagree with most of his points, but it is refreshing to hear a non-BSer up there.
I like this though, gives everyone equal time and 19,000 mixed crowed cheering. Are they doing one for Republicans? That'd be tight hearing people go crazy for Paul!
kalami
08-07-2007, 06:47 PM
I like this though, gives everyone equal time and 19,000 mixed crowed cheering. Are they doing one for Republicans? That'd be tight hearing people go crazy for Paul!
Should find a different audience which isn't made up of Labor Unionists.
Richandler
08-07-2007, 06:49 PM
Yah they should do it in Texas.
MozoVote
08-07-2007, 06:56 PM
SERIOUSLY, PEOPLE.
We don't have chance to vote for RP here. When MSNBC does the "Who Won" polling, pile on for Kucinich!
I will. Not because I agree with him. But he had the tenacity to campaign in every state in 2004 and get all the delegates he could at the convention. Let's home Ron does the same, even if he's behind.
VOTE KUCINICH!!
ShaneC
08-07-2007, 06:58 PM
No, if RP goes 3rd party, he's done.
I disagree.
There's enough of us who've heard his message, and enough constitutionalists, libertarians, independents, and disenfranchised "2-party voters"....
We could...with great difficulty, gather a great number of results. It wouldn't be easy though.
RP supporters are passionate.
I just hope that's enough, if it comes to a 3rd party ticket. :(
PatriotOne
08-07-2007, 06:59 PM
Oh crap. I night of bothered to watch this if I had remembered Olbermann was the moderator. Thank God for YouTube.
kalami
08-07-2007, 06:59 PM
it's being shown again at 12 est, I believe
ShaneC
08-07-2007, 06:59 PM
I didn't see anything impressive come from Olbermann though either. :(
JosephTheLibertarian
08-07-2007, 06:59 PM
A 3rd party can't win lol you'd need something REALLY big. Most general election voters are fools
ShaneC
08-07-2007, 07:01 PM
The voting machines are rigged, right?
MozoVote
08-07-2007, 07:04 PM
The voting machines are rigged, right?
They will be when thousands of bored Ron Paul spammers vote for Kucinich tonight! :D
JosephTheLibertarian
08-07-2007, 07:04 PM
The voting machines are rigged, right?
uhh I think the sheeple tend to vote the wrong way.
Starks
08-07-2007, 07:08 PM
3rd party candidates haven't won a single electoral vote since George Wallace in the 60s...
The free market in labor seems to raise wages and increase safety on its own, at least in my lifetime. Only about 20% of the private sector is unionized, yet most people don't work for minimum wage. They had a place once, but they are becoming increasingly irrelevant (Except in government, where the managers don't fight back since they don't have to foot the higher bill anyway)
JosephTheLibertarian
08-07-2007, 07:22 PM
How can anyone call these things "debates"? A debate is when you let people go at it for hours until there's only one person left or they all agree to end it. Our political system would be better if we had real debates.
Dartan
08-07-2007, 07:22 PM
Any sign of an internet poll on who won yet?
He can still run as third party if he wants, it's just that he has already said that he doesn't.
If he got up to ~10-15 million, he would have more money to spend than any Libertarian candidate ever. The last Lib candidate had something like $1.5 Million for the whole general. So he could make quite a difference if he did run 3rd party.
Without Gravel, it won't even be worth watching the debate.
Dartan
08-07-2007, 07:27 PM
Well, even if he doesn't win the nomination and doesn't run as an independent, I'll still vote for him. I do not believe in voting for the lesser of two evils (thats why I've never voted before).
ShaneC
08-07-2007, 07:31 PM
3rd party candidates haven't won a single electoral vote since George Wallace in the 60s...
Well, you know our slogan.
Hope For America and all that. It is time for a change, and there are a lot of people out there who want they change. We just have to reach them.
rg123
08-07-2007, 07:40 PM
Without Gravel, it won't even be worth watching the debate.
Sad he was not at that debate so many peoples children are not dieing in Iraq
because of him. I really like him not everything but certainly better than the whole
corrupt crop up there. Hillary is the "scientific" winner (cough)MSM choice. In other polls she is just a blib on the screen. Only the msm loves Clinton I have yet to meet someone who does. If she becomes president I will leave this country. I am not going to work all day and give my social security to 300 million Illegals. LaRaza is in charge of her campaign
Just watched a part of the debate about what they would do about "crumbling infrastructure" I was hoping that one of them would say something about how it would be better to let the states pay for their own bridges. That way they won't have to send their money to D.C. first and have the politically connected people take their 30% off the top before it goes back to the most politically connected states that will then use the money to build "bridges to nowhere". If the states kept their tax revenue, they could buy better bridges.
I think this mentality is why socialism will always be with us. It is far too successful to promise a bag full of goodies to people than it is to educate them about how better off they would be on their own.
MozoVote
08-07-2007, 07:57 PM
It sounds like Gravel could have attended. Maybe he chose not to, or is just too broke at this point to keep travelling.
Gravel a no-show
Seven of the eight contenders shared a covered stage at Soldier Field in 90-degree heat. Former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel, who did not complete the required AFL-CIO questionnaire, did not plan to attend.
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