None Of It Matters!

[lapi7]

Look, I'm sorry to be so negative but raw truth is often quite painful.

All the comments about how Ron Paul could win the election and all the support and all the effort and all the banners and all the signs and all the forums and all the contributions and all the meetup groups and all the volunteers and all the media ideas and all the work and all the effort and all the thousands of people at rallys and all the Internet support and all the forums and all the excitement and all the hopefulness and EVERY THREAD ON THIS FORUM and all the...etc. etc. etc.
DON"T MEAN SQUAT!!!

If the voting machines are rigged by the elite GOP powers (which they are) then "all the this and all the that" means NOTHING. Even if Dr. Paul walked on water and raised the dead, IF THEY WANT HIM TO LOSE HE WILL LOSE ! ! !
With these rigged voting machines you cannot beat what cannot be beaten even if Dr. Paul won EVERY vote ! ! !
END OF STORY ! ! !

At which point perhaps it would be time for a NEW type of revoloution ! ! !
Anyone got a Guillotine for George and Dick al la "Viva la France?" in 1789.

[Akus]

I'm still waiting for some news of a government agency monitoring the election precisely so this cannot happen.

[ctb619]

what is it exactly that you are proposing?

[Lord Xar]

I kinda agree with you..

They control the media, they control the machines....

[BLS]

Screw that.

First off, if you don't have anything positive to say, don't say it.
If you don't believe he'll win, leave and go back to what you were doing.
I, on the other hand, am not going anywhere.
We don't need negative feedback. There's 2000 articles around the nation doing that job already.

2nd, if Ron Paul has proof that he wins an election and they lie, cheat or steal, I'll immediately leave my house, gun in hand.

It's flat out time we took this nation back.

[joshdvm]

Unless there is any evidence of tampering, all such speculation is a waste of time.

[mconder]

and all the hopefulness and EVERY THREAD ON THIS FORUM and all the...etc. etc. etc.
DON"T MEAN SQUAT!!

This is a lie. When this is all over, we will have opened many minds and changed many hearts. Regardless of the outcome, we will have many new friends in the general "patriot community." Hopefully, Ron Paul has inspired a whole new generation of citizen statesmen who will also run for public office.

If our side could only have the persistence and commitment that the opposition has had in this country over the last century. Ron Paul is a great example of what it means to persevere and face what is evil and wrong regardless of the odds.

We all need to understand that Ron Paul is the beginning and not the end in this war.

[Lord Xar]

Screw that.

First off, if you don't have anything positive to say, don't say it.
If you don't believe he'll win, leave and go back to what you were doing.
I, on the other hand, am not going anywhere.
We don't need negative feedback. There's 2000 articles around the nation doing that job already.

2nd, if Ron Paul has proof that he wins an election and they lie, cheat or steal, I'll immediately leave my house, gun in hand.

It's flat out time we took this nation back.

Well, I dig what you are saying.. I do..

The thing is, many of us feel that we are fighting against a wall of force, and we have seen it tooo many times regarding the media, and these diebold machines...

You are right, we need to take back this nation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But to me, it is PRECISELY the control they have over us that got me involved. SO to have these feelings is not entirely bad, it stirs the heart... it makes one act.

The thing is, we have to be aware and keenly sensitive to who controls what.. for you must know your enemy if you intend to fight him....





Unless there is any evidence of tampering, all such speculation is a waste of time.


That is the problem, there is a TON of evidence in prior elections of tampering... that is the concern here. Do you not realize that their biggest tactic is to do the harm, then retract.... you understand. We, the american people, are complacent and we acquiese to any capitulation that is given AFTER the fact... case in point, is that Des Moines hit piece... the damage is done. The print and online ad already did the trick.. they fix it at the end of the day.. will the retraction come? Perhaps, but whenever I seen retractions they are always in small print and insignificant..

same with the voting and EVERYTHING else... the damage gets done, and in a small time, poof... the hoopla blows over.... its a great tactic.. same with that shamnesty bill, we blew out of the water... but guess what? other parts of that bill have already been passed porked onto other bills.... and look what the democrates did with the welfare for illegals... alot of HOOPLA, but what will happen in a week..??? will it blow over too........

[Revolution9]

Look, I'm sorry to be so negative but raw truth is often quite painful.<snip overexcited babbling>


So must that gunpowder you have apparently been snorting. Calm down sonny:D

Best Regards
Randy

[ARealConservative]

and all the hopefulness and EVERY THREAD ON THIS FORUM and all the...etc. etc. etc.
DON"T MEAN SQUAT!!

This is a lie. When this is all over, we will have opened many minds and changed many hearts. Regardless of the outcome, we will have many new friends in the general "patriot community." Hopefully, Ron Paul has inspired a whole new generation of citizen statesmen who will also run for public office.

If our side could only have the persistence and commitment that the opposition has had in this country over the last century. Ron Paul is a great example of what it means to persevere and face what is evil and wrong regardless of the odds.

We all need to understand that Ron Paul is the beginning and not the end in this war.

I don't think it is a lie - just a logical fallacy, but otherwise I agree completely - good post.

Spreading truth is its own reward.

[Birdlady]

Screw that.

First off, if you don't have anything positive to say, don't say it.
If you don't believe he'll win, leave and go back to what you were doing.
I, on the other hand, am not going anywhere.
We don't need negative feedback. There's 2000 articles around the nation doing that job already.

2nd, if Ron Paul has proof that he wins an election and they lie, cheat or steal, I'll immediately leave my house, gun in hand.

It's flat out time we took this nation back.

You obviously don't understand what this person was trying to say. What they said is true. We are focusing on the WRONG thing. The machines are rigged so NO matter HOW MANY PEOPLE VOTE, RON PAUL WILL LOSE.

What can't you understand about that?

And your number 2 is really out of line. What the hell is that going to do? You yell at this person on the board for speaking their mind, yet you say if he loses and there is vote tampering you will take your gun with you? and do what? :rolleyes:

Calm down man. Words like that aren't NOT something to joke around about.

[Lord Xar]

and all the hopefulness and EVERY THREAD ON THIS FORUM and all the...etc. etc. etc.
DON"T MEAN SQUAT!!


We all need to understand that Ron Paul is the beginning and not the end in this war.

I wish I agreed with you... I am pushing forward like this IS THE END!

If any other candidate besides Ron Paul and to a lesser extent Tancredo or Duncan Hunter... do not win... forget it.. SPP will come to fruition, as will amnesty and open borders... and we will invade or nuke iran, probably solicalism will take hold ..... then what - is that when the new and improved revolution will happen?

I am not a defeatist, on the contrary... I am motivated MORE THAN EVER, and you all should be too.. this isn't just one battle of many.. to me, this is the FINAL BATTLE!

[BLS]

You obviously don't understand what this person was trying to say. What they said is true. We are focusing on the WRONG thing. The machines are rigged so NO matter HOW MANY PEOPLE VOTE, RON PAUL WILL LOSE.

What can't you understand about that?

And your number 2 is really out of line. What the hell is that going to do? You yell at this person on the board for speaking their mind, yet you say if he loses and there is vote tampering you will take your gun with you? and do what? :rolleyes:

Calm down man. Words like that aren't NOT something to joke around about.

Who's joking lady?

Maybe I misunderstood him. Maybe he was saying 'we're going to win'. But it sure didn't sound that way.

What I was saying is simple. And if people don't 'get it', then we have a problem.
Our country is run by people WE elect and they do nothing to represent OUR wishes. They pander to big business and illegal immigrants because they want to buy their votes. The only time they fix anything is when their jobs are threatened.

Listen...a brief history lesson will show you that when this country was threatened by tryanny, they grabbed their guns and fought for what was right.
The result was our Constitution and our Freedom. The 2nd ammendment was written because our forefathers knew the time may come where we may have to take up arms again, against a tyranny.

Where would I go.....not to WalMart. We need to take back our freedoms and stop the BS. You may not agree, and that's OK.

[Man from La Mancha]

There is someone working his butt off for this please supprt his efforts, He has been fighting this for 20 years and has experience. I have donated and will again this more important than anything else. This man wants to make showdown.

http://www.votefraud.org/ron_paul_st...fraud_page.htm

This is why people from all over the United States are coming to Iowa.
We need 200 volunteers to wear yellow "Vote in Sunshine" t-shirts and
take the "citizens' exit poll" verification ballots from those who have
already voted in the official Diebold election - AND WHO ALSO WANT TO
MAKE SURE THEIR VOTE COUNTS.

We need YOU! Our organizational meeting for already committed volunteers
- and those who are going to be joining the effort that night - will be
at 5 PM on Friday afternoon, August 10th, 2007 - at the Holiday Inn,
Conference Center, Charolais Room, 2609 Elwood Drive, Ames, IA 50010.
(This Holiday Inn is about one mile south of the Straw Poll location on
Iowa State University.)

Join the Meetup group at http://electionreform.meetup.com/165

ALSO, we still need about $1500 to $2000 to meet all the MINIMAL basic
expenses to make the alternative "citizens exit poll" happen. $2991 has
been collected as of this writing - and we have found some expenses that
push the need up to $5000 for just the basics - that means about $2000
is still needed. You can help by going to paypal.com - hitting send
money - and sending money to action@networkamerica.org - which is the
paypal address to the "Operation Ames Honest Election 2007" effort.
So now, if you've grasped all of the above, you see the crass, criminal,
vile attitudes and instincts of the national GOP leaders (Dems, too,
even worse, if that be possible) - and the leaders of the Iowa GOP are
going along? For what? Is career more important than country and family
and Faith?

The people of Iowa are great - the Iowa GOP leaders are disgracing them.

Last night, I sent to the Iowa GOP chairman, Mr. Ray Hoffman, a letter
from Citizens for a Fair Vote Count - a letter with potential legal
implications, holding up before the Iowa State GOP leadership two
choices, two paths:

1. Scrap the discredited Diebold Computers, use the same paper ballots
they were going to use, put the ballots in easily obtainable clear
plastic boxes in public view all day, and have designated HUMAN BEINGS
count them at a cafeteria table at each of the voting stations at the
end of the voting period - with representatives from all campaigns, and
citizens, watching and hearing as the votes are scrutinized and called
out. This path leads to the Iowa GOP leadership being heroes to the
whole nation and the whole world - finally SOMEONE in a leadership
position would have stood up to the Rothschild/Rockerfeller New World
Order and its Computer Votefraud Syndicate, thus leading the way to take
back our destiny as a nation.

2. The second path: use the discredited and disgraced Diebold computers
to "count" the Straw Poll vote. This path leads to winning the scorn of
every thinking person at the Iowa Straw Poll, in the state of Iowa - and
in the nation - as word spreads like wildfire across the nation. This
path will continue to build a righteous anger in normal Americans. And
it might lead to a "nasty" lawsuit with Mr. Ray Hoffman and all the
other Iowa GOP leaders - and the owners of Diebold in video-taped
deposition.

If this becomes necessary, Mr. Hoffman, the Iowa State GOP central
committee members, and the Diebold officials such as Mr. Urosevich -
will be filmed in deposition, will go up on the internet and onto DVD
for public viewing. -- In other words, via the deposition - they will be
coming to your living room TV or your home computer - and, at that
point, boy will they want to be anywhere else!

WHAT happens at the Ames, Iowa Straw Poll - is a microcosm of what
happens ot 49 ½ states at every primary and general election - since
1988! Do you see how earth-shattering this is? This can be a turning
point back to honest, verifiable voting in the USA!

If we are going to elect a GOOD and INDEPENDENT man as President - and
good and honest people as Congressmen - then we have to draw the line
somewhere!

Let us draw it at Ames this Saturday - a the Iowa Straw Poll 2007.

Everyone into the battle.


Jim Condit Jr.,
Director, Network America Ewire List
Director, Citizens for a Fair Vote Count
Mailing Address: PO Box 11339, Cincinnati, Ohio 45211

[BLS]

You obviously don't understand what this person was trying to say. What they said is true. We are focusing on the WRONG thing. The machines are rigged so NO matter HOW MANY PEOPLE VOTE, RON PAUL WILL LOSE.

What can't you understand about that?

And your number 2 is really out of line. What the hell is that going to do? You yell at this person on the board for speaking their mind, yet you say if he loses and there is vote tampering you will take your gun with you? and do what? :rolleyes:

Calm down man. Words like that aren't NOT something to joke around about.

Also, where's the proof that the machines are rigged??

Don't be a conspricy theorist please.

[Lord Xar]

Also, where's the proof that the machines are rigged??

Don't be a conspricy theorist please.

? I am confused. Are you talking about Diebold machines in general, or the specific ones that are gonna be used in Ames for the upcoming Straw Poll?

If you are talking generalities.. I am surprised, the DieBold machines have been proven again and again and again to be easily hijacked and manipulated by those who are "counting" in private....

Also, if you are looking for specific examples... well, watch "hacking democracy" and those pieces suggested by Jim Condit Jr.-- he references a few videos that "show it all"...

[Man from La Mancha]

Also, where's the proof that the machines are rigged??

Don't be a conspricy theorist please.


From Ernest Hancock on Freedom's Phoenix:

"I did my best to determine the method of validating the election
results and could get no "official" response until today. Mary Tiffany
is the Iowa State GOP Communications Director. After finally getting her
on the phone and introducing myself as a visiting radio talk show host
from Phoenix she was kind enough to take my questions seriously and
promised to get back to me today. I had planned to arrive at their
downtown office in Des Moines should she not call me by 4:30 pm Iowa
time. I was on my way to the Iowa State GOP HQ when I received Mary's
call at 4:35 pm. She was clear and straight to the point.

"Each campaign was welcome to have representatives witness the feeding
of the paper ballots into the counting computers but that there would
not be a manual count of any kind. I then asked what would happen to the
original paper ballots. She asked me to hold for a moment while she
checked. In our earlier phone conversation she said that I needed to
talk to "Eric" the Iowa State GOP's Political Director so I can only
imagine she was likely getting directions from him. She came back on the
line to say that the paper ballots would remain with the machines and
would not elaborate further. I asked if the paper would be destroyed and
she would not/could not answer.

"So there you have it. The same machines that California just
decertified 3 days ago and Florida is in the spot light about as well,
are going to be used to determine the future . . . ."

(End of quote from Ernest Hancock and his conversation with the Iowa
GOP.)

The whole article is found here:

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Feature-Article.htm?InfoNo=022071

[Revolution9]

There is someone working his butt off for this please supprt his efforts, He has been fighting this for 20 years and has experience. I have donated and will again this more important than anything else. This man wants to make showdown.

From your lips to the ear of God. as the saying goes..

I got the vision of white hatted Sheriff Ron Paul singlehandedly facing his back hatted gang of opponents on the Main Street in a dusty old New Mexico town. "It's time for a showdown boys. You ain't a gonna be harrassing the locals much longer now I am the new Sheriiff around here".

Best Regards
Randy

[lapi7]

Screw that.

First off, if you don't have anything positive to say, don't say it.
If you don't believe he'll win, leave and go back to what you were doing.


No way pal...I will not stand down simply because I say something that YOU don't want to hear. That's called Dictatorship, and that may be YOU but it's NOT me !

The issue of rigged Diebolt machines is being discussed all over the place. Even the main stream media is picking up on it.
The issue is valid and VERY IMPORTANT to all those whom have put in their blood, sweat and tears into Dr. Paul's campagin.

If you would like to politely disagree, as an articulte human being then that's your right...But don't you EVER AGAIN tell me what I can say or can't say on this or any other subject...I owe you nothing and am not answerable to you...you got that Jackson?

The matter bears no further discussion...

[Lord Xar]

No way pal...I will not stand down simply because I say something that YOU don't want to hear. That's called Dictatorship, and that may be YOU but it's NOT me !

If you would like to politely disagree, as an articulte human being then that's your right...But don't you EVER AGAIN tell me what I can say or can't say on this or any other subject...I owe you nothing and am not answerable to you...you got that Jackson?

The matter bears no further discussion...


cool down hotsauce :D

[nunaem]

Even if RP's votes are not counted fairly, it does not mean that creating RP voters is a waste of time.

[BLS]

No way pal...I will not stand down simply because I say something that YOU don't want to hear. That's called Dictatorship, and that may be YOU but it's NOT me !

The issue of rigged Diebolt machines is being discussed all over the place. Even the main stream media is picking up on it.
The issue is valid and VERY IMPORTANT to all those whom have put in their blood, sweat and tears into Dr. Paul's campagin.

If you would like to politely disagree, as an articulte human being then that's your right...But don't you EVER AGAIN tell me what I can say or can't say on this or any other subject...I owe you nothing and am not answerable to you...you got that Jackson?

The matter bears no further discussion...

OK, Einstein.....let me spell it out for you.

First, I did not say they were not hackable. I'm well aware the fact they are easily hackable. And YES, it is a concern.

2nd, Fine....be a whiner. I understand your concern. I really do.
Instead of whining, offer a solution. All I saw was whining. If you're gonna try to be a leader....lead.

3rd, nowhere did I say what you could or couldn't say buddy. Even if I did...what am I honestly going to do to stop you. I mean...really. :rolleyes:
I totally believe in freedom of speech, freedom of expression. What I personally don't care for is crybabies. I mearly suggested I didn't want you here if all you going to offer was negative opinions. I feel we have enough of them.
But it's not my site, or not my forum, so feel free to continue whining.

You got THAT....Jackson?

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

Alright, alright. You just talked me into donating $50 to Vote in Sunshine.

[Man from La Mancha]

Alright, alright. You just talked me into donating $50 to Vote in Sunshine.

Thanks for donation I feel Jim is going to work so hard on this, it will occupy his whole life.

BLS I think lapi7 just wanted to make thread to get attention to this very vital fact that has to solved or it's over. We all know Ron will win the Presidency if this is solved.

[Lord Xar]

OK, Einstein.....let me spell it out for you.

First, I did not say they were not hackable. I'm well aware the fact they are easily hackable. And YES, it is a concern.

2nd, Fine....be a whiner. I understand your concern. I really do.
Instead of whining, offer a solution. All I saw was whining. If you're gonna try to be a leader....lead.

3rd, nowhere did I say what you could or couldn't say buddy. Even if I did...what am I honestly going to do to stop you. I mean...really. :rolleyes:
I totally believe in freedom of speech, freedom of expression. What I personally don't care for is crybabies. I mearly suggested I didn't want you here if all you going to offer was negative opinions. I feel we have enough of them.
But it's not my site, or not my forum, so feel free to continue whining.

You got THAT....Jackson?


cool down hotsauce :D :D (you get two cause you seem even more agitated than the other person - now don't make me break out three!)

[BLS]

Thanks for donation I feel Jim is going to work so hard on this, it will occupy his whole life.

BLS I think lapi7 just wanted to make thread to get attention to this very vital fact that has to solved or it's over. We all know Ron will win the Presidency if this is solved.

You know, I totally agree.

But I've learned alot in my life from my Dad. And I've worked for him for over 13 years now.

He told me when he was the IT Manager at a Nuke Plant in MN, he had a sign on the door that said "don't come to me with a problem....come to me with a solution".

What I learned from that was this....don't whine and tell me something I probably already know. Offer me a solution.

I too, share his, and others major concern about the fact they may cheat or even flat out steal an election. But whining about it does NO good, and his diatribe reeked of just sulking about how all of our work will do no good. Talk about a fancy way to get supporters to feel like quitting. I just thought it was counter productive.

[BLS]

cool down hotsauce :D :D (you get two cause you seem even more agitated than the other person - now don't make me break out three!)

Dude, I pulled back the reigns BIGTIME compared to what I wanted to say.


But point taken (and yes, I did giggle...nice work):D

[EvoPro]

I don't see this link anywhere in this thread:

http://www.votefraud.org/ron_paul_stop_the_votefraud_page.htm

[beermotor]

I kinda agree with you..

They control the media, they control the machines....



So what?

This is why I like the Norse myths. Odin, here was a cat who KNEW HE WAS GOING TO LOSE, yet he fought anyway.

That's guts, my friends. You do the best you can for your people, for as long as you can, and die knowing you gave it your best shot, even if the deck was stacked against you.

Incidentally, I'm covered in viking tats, heh.

Anyway, the Havamal says some good stuff about this too: complaining is worthless, "it befits a Prince to be merry and glad until the day of his death." If Fate is woven, whining about it accomplishes nothing.

I think Christ has some good things to say about this stuff too ... put your faith in LOVE, and God, and things will be fine.

[Avalon]

So far Jim Condit has proposed nothing but awful ideas regarding the straw poll. I don't see why anyone would donate money to him.

[Man from La Mancha]

So far Jim Condit has proposed nothing but awful ideas regarding the straw poll. I don't see why anyone would donate money to him.


Do you know of anybody else that is coordinating anything else or has a better way of doing it? Can you be more specific in your criticism? We are always ready to learn of better ways at this late date. What's your plan on monitoring vote fraud?

.

[EvoPro]

So far Jim Condit has proposed nothing but awful ideas regarding the straw poll. I don't see why anyone would donate money to him.

This is his plan. what's so wrong with it?

This is why people from all over the United States are coming to Iowa. We need 200 volunteers to wear yellow “Vote in Sunshine” t-shirts and take the “citizens’ exit poll” verification ballots from those who have already voted in the official Diebold election – AND WHO ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THEIR VOTE COUNTS.

[WannaBfree]

These machines cannot be relied upon. They are used because they are rigged.

Rigged USA Elections Exposed
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2615703918066275099

Much more info available - just search 'diebold' at Youtube.

It's not who votes that counts, it's who counts the votes. - Joseph Stalin

[lapi7]

OK, Einstein.....let me spell it out for you.

First, I did not say they were not hackable. I'm well aware the fact they are easily hackable. And YES, it is a concern.

2nd, Fine....be a whiner. I understand your concern. I really do.
Instead of whining, offer a solution. All I saw was whining. If you're gonna try to be a leader....lead.

3rd, nowhere did I say what you could or couldn't say buddy. Even if I did...what am I honestly going to do to stop you. I mean...really. :rolleyes:
I totally believe in freedom of speech, freedom of expression. What I personally don't care for is crybabies. I mearly suggested I didn't want you here if all you going to offer was negative opinions. I feel we have enough of them.
But it's not my site, or not my forum, so feel free to continue whining.

You got THAT....Jackson?

OK BLS...agreed.

Let's bury the hatchet and be friends as I believe that everyone on this forum has the same objective...and that is to see to it that Dr. Paul is elected the next President of the United States.

However, the computerized voting issue could bring the hard work of tens of thousands to nought.

I don't believe that I'm whining as much as I feel and perhaps am articulating the frustration of many who may feel the same way.

As far as offering a solution to the problem...I wish I could. I am willing to entertain any viable suggestions as to how this great miscarrige of justice can be remedied.

Anyway...sorry I got hot.:)

[paulitics]

I'm glad it is something that is being taken seriously by some people here. It is WELL worth it. The vote fraud does occur for the same reason, any other corruption occurs when there is not enough oversight, accountability, or checks and balances. Its not a matter of conspiracy, its just a matter of human nature, and without oversight, people cannot be trusted to do the right thing with thousands of years of history to back that up.
So, I commend this effort being taken. Even if they know that we are try to do something, they may think twice about any funny business.

[BLS]

OK BLS...agreed.

Let's bury the hatchet and be friends as I believe that everyone on this forum has the same objective...and that is to see to it that Dr. Paul is elected the next President of the United States.

However, the computerized voting issue could bring the hard work of tens of thousands to nought.

I don't believe that I'm whining as much as I feel and perhaps am articulating the frustration of many who may feel the same way.

As far as offering a solution to the problem...I wish I could. I am willing to entertain any viable suggestions as to how this great miscarrige of justice can be remedied.

Anyway...sorry I got hot.:)

Peace my brother. We are, in fact, wearing the same colors.
Sorry I lost my top. I offer my apology as well.

I wish I had an answer that I could enforce as well.
There are some threads here that propose we drive to Iowa and do an exit poll, others suggest we all keep our receipts.

All are decent ideas, but there's not much (because of financial reasons) that I personally can do. I'll be totally honest, I'm in a huge financial crunch right now, even though I donated over $100 in the last month to RP HQ, the SPAM Spartanburg Project, and the Iowa radio ads. So what if I eat ramen for the next 2 weeks. It's worth it to me (plus I could lose a lb or 2 anyway :D )

I think we need to put our faith in the system. This election means alot, but it's not the final vote. If RP does very poorly, then we need to worry, regroup, reorganize, redouble our efforts and don't get fooled again.

[freelance]

From all I've read today, I'm really nervous about this straw poll. When I first read that Diebold machines were being used, I immediately thought the worst. Then, I thought, "Nah, they wouldn't! Not in IOWA, the heartland, for heaven's sake. Certainly not in a straw poll."

The stakes are high! Ron Paul is breathing down the neck of TPTB. You all have to know and BELIEVE that much. They've tried various means to silence RP since he first announced. They've ignored him, attacked him, called him a lunatic, tried to marginalize him. In each instance, they LOST! And, now, voila...Diebold to the rescue. And, just for good measure, a SECRET count with no recount.

Now that the details have been released, it should be obvious to us all that there is no legitimate reason for all of the secrecy surrounding the count--NONE! With ~50,000 people in attendance, there is no reason that they couldn't use paper ballots and optical readers for the tally, with a hand count a backup. So it takes a little longer. What's important here? Expediency or legitimacy? Well now, that depends on which side of the fence you sit, doesn't it?

I really believe that they will steal this straw poll if they have to! I don't think they will let Ron Paul come in dead last even if that's how he were to finish. It wouldn't look right. Wherever Ron Paul ends up in the pack after a Diebold straw poll, how will we know if that's his legitimate place?

Who in their right mind would think that the Supreme Court of the UNITED STATES would HALT a recount in order to SELECT a president in this country? If they got by with that, they'll get by with this.

In the scheme of the past 6.5 years, a stolen straw poll is small potatoes!

[constituent]

This is moot...


Do you really think Ron'd get Kinky'd?

[Man from La Mancha]

So what if I eat ramen for the next 2 weeks. It's worth it to me (plus I could lose a lb or 2 anyway :D ).

Could mix in a little SPAM too:D

[CJLauderdale4]

'It's Not the People Who Vote that Count; It's the People Who Count the Votes'

[stevedasbach]

Just curious -- exactly who do you think will be rigging the vote and to which candidate(s) will Ron Paul's votes be given to?

It seems to me that the people running the show in Ames are supporting a lot of different candidates and would have a very hard time reaching agreement on how to distribute Paul's votes. Also, they would have to assume that no one involved would talk to anyone about what they did, lest they be exposed. They may all want Paul out of the race, but otherwise they are in a bitter, nasty battle with each other for the nomination.

These are politicians -- the same politicians who otherwise can't find their butts with both hands. They may want to do this, but I'm skeptical that they are capable of pulling it off without getting caught.

Ron Paul's been doing politics a lot longer and more successfully than any of us. Let's have some confidence that he and his campaign team know what they are doing, and focus on doing what we can to improve his chances.

[constituent]

edited... misread... sorry.

[jonahtrainer]

Also, where's the proof that the machines are rigged??

At 4:02 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=lxGSXYUkplA). The CEO of Diebold wrote in a letter that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the President"

Consequently, this is exactly what happened and Ohio was the swing state in the 2004 election. Coincidence? Of course, some people refuse to believe the truth when it stares them in the face and hits them over the head.

[Avalon]

Do you know of anybody else that is coordinating anything else or has a better way of doing it? Can you be more specific in your criticism? We are always ready to learn of better ways at this late date. What's your plan on monitoring vote fraud?


my criticism of his plan three weeks ago and my plan (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=77455&postcount=9)

If you read this letter (the OP) you will find that

A) he claims that fraud will occur and that the straw poll was purposely designed with machines for fraud. Even if these are true they will cast a questionable pallor on the integrity of any results the group he leads comes up with.
B) he claims that paper ballots are the solution without any caveats. Yes, paper ballots are better than any machine based system we have today but they are also fraught with vulnerabilities. You need to verify every link of the chain because those comitting voter fraud will be exploiting the weakest link. Moving to a paper ballot would be a step in the right direction, but we need a lot more than that.
C) he disregards the intent and wishes of Ron Paul and his campaign to further his own goals. Read paragraph two of section 8 about how he wants hundreds of us to pressure Ron Paul into having a press conference on the manner if he won't agree to do so.

On to the letter you posted in here: "Last night, I sent to the Iowa GOP chairman, Mr. Ray Hoffman, a letter from Citizens for a Fair Vote Count - a letter with potential legal implications"

Give me a break...what potential legal implications? I don't see why the Iowa GOP can't rig their own poll if they don't want to, I don't see why they can't design it poorly, and I don't see why they can't kick each and every person with a "Vote in Sunshine" tshirt off the premises. And I doubt he expects to actually do the exit polling on the grounds (or he would have mentioned that win).

But even overcoming all those impracticalities...he needs his exit polling to bulletproof AND he needs very high turnout to be considered credible by the media or the people in spite of the media's branding.

If the GOP or media claims he fabricated ballots, he needs to be able to prove he couldn't have. If they claim someone must have bypassed his security measures to rig their exit poll (including simply approaching the exit poll multiple times to revote), he needs to be able to prove beyond all doubt they couldn't do so. If they claim directly soliciting voters to revote is bound to affect turnout composition (ie, people who voted for Romney are less likely to care about having their vote documented), he needs to have significant numbers to make this meaningless. If he's stupid enough to go with a non-anonymous form of exit polling, they'll jump all over that (people lying about their vote) like they did in the 2004 elections when exit polls were off by 30% in some cases.

So far he hasn't presented a fleshed out plan and we are but days away. It really seems like this is just a publicity stunt for himself.

[Avalon]

Just curious -- exactly who do you think will be rigging the vote and to which candidate(s) will Ron Paul's votes be given to?

It seems to me that the people running the show in Ames are supporting a lot of different candidates and would have a very hard time reaching agreement on how to distribute Paul's votes. Also, they would have to assume that no one involved would talk to anyone about what they did, lest they be exposed. They may all want Paul out of the race, but otherwise they are in a bitter, nasty battle with each other for the nomination.

These are politicians -- the same politicians who otherwise can't find their butts with both hands. They may want to do this, but I'm skeptical that they are capable of pulling it off without getting caught.

Ron Paul's been doing politics a lot longer and more successfully than any of us. Let's have some confidence that he and his campaign team know what they are doing, and focus on doing what we can to improve his chances.

What you don't understand is that it only takes one person with access to the machines (a month ago, the night before the poll, during the poll, or after but before the results are printed) or even the ticker tape the results are printed on to rig the entire poll. Further, a single voter can potentially rig a particular voting machine (Condit says there will be 60).