IMPORTANT! Why Ron Paul Must NEVER Run as an Independent.

[libertyanne]

I got an email this morning urging me to persuade Ron Paul to run as an independent or on a 3rd party ticket later on.

This is either from misguided supporters, or from people who really do not want us to fix America.

Why must this NEVER happen?

The elite know that what we are doing is working. They plan for the long run. Whether or not Ron Paul gets the nomination or becomes president, every day he is showing that the ONLY way we can take our country and economy back is to TAKE OVER THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

Every day, their supporters DIE. People like the evil men who stole votes in NH whom you can see in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKQEQ7qHvgM

The Ron Paul revolution is young,

Every day, we enrol and educate new members.

Using the systems already in place, such as the debates, the Ron Paul revolution has done miracles.

We have hundreds, possibly thousands of supporters who have spent their time and money becoming delegates. We can NOT abandon these people and switch parties.

Delegates are the secret weapon of the elite that were to be used against us. But in this case, that weapon will blow up in their faces.

Every single day, people become delegates and join the Republican Party. Every new election we, who knew next to nothing about politics, are learning about all the scams in the system.

The Revolution is not about one man.

It is about the message and changing the system.

The elite and bankers set up a great two party system for controlling America and it's money. They know that the only thing that can change that system is if we take over one of the parties, like a swarm of ants.

There are now, and probably always will be, MILLIONS of people who will hear of and vote for Ron Paul because he is a Republican. But who will NEVER hear of him if he is a third party candidate. This kind of thing has been proven over and over in the past.

Remember that the revolution will spread to state and local government as well, if we do it this way.

So, whether it is about this election for president, or later ones for the presidency or congress, the ONLY way that we will fix things is to keep doing what we are doing now. That is, charging the battlements of the Republican party and taking it over completely, so that one day the elections and candidates are honest.

The elite know that most of their power base are old.

Whatever happens, remain focused. The systems are already in place for us to save America using the Republican party. Any other way will lead to nothing. May the ants win.

[WilliamC]

Good post.

This is how the rEVOLution grows....

[roXet]

That is defiantly one strategy, but you have to consider the possibility that the Republican party is too far gone to save.

[MJfromCT]

Truth to Power

[Jae0]

We're busy running for the Republican nomination why are people hurting our efforts by continuing to bring up third party?

[Cleaner44]

That is defiantly one strategy, but you have to consider the possibility that the Republican party is too far gone to save.

It is not a matter of saving it, but remaking it in our new image. A new Republican party that stands for smaller government, lower taxes, more liberty and integrity.

[voytechs]

Agree 100% with you. We need to take our government back the presidency is just one part of many.

[ItsTime]

Starting a new party is to hard, just ask the libertarians how their movement is going... We need to take back the Republican party. Starting with congress!

This is the main reason we need to keep Ron Paul in the race. We need to find the "hot spots" in all 50 states! This way we can get "Ron Paul Republicans" into congress! We have found hot spots in Jefferson in Iowa, Northern Maine, South West New Hampshire, Middle West New Hampshire, a few places in FL and MI. Carson City NV, Pershing NV. We need to, identify and help support those running for congress and local offices!

Many many more areas that I failed to list. But you get the point.

[rdenner]

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POST I'VE SEEN ON THESE BOARDS IN DAYS!!!


Read it learn it ACCEPT IT!!

Ron Paul is not going third party PERIOD... The only way REAL change gets affected is by beating the Republican Party at it's own game. Win or lose come Super Tuesday we must stay commited to fundamentally changing the Republican Party and shaping it into our view of America.

LEARN THE TRICKS and bylaws of your local GOP and BEAT THEM AT THEIR OWN GAME!! I have been harping on this at the local level for several months now. I think people are just now understanding what this means.

I went to a local GOP club meeting here in Toledo. We gathered about 20 or so meetup members(it could have easily been double that, but we didn't want to draw to much attention). We tied Mitt in the straw poll they held.

Normally they get about 10 to 12 people to show up. With us and the other younger people that showed up, there was easily 45 people there. If we had PUSHED HARD we could have brought about 45 to 50 LUCAS COUNTY RON PAUL GOP members to that meeting.

We outnumber on the local level the entrenched GOP. THIS WILL BE THE ENDURING LEGACY OF RON PAUL'S CANDIDACY!!

NO THIRD PARTY PERIOD!!

Robert

[seeker1]

You GOP Loyalists are really desperate aren't you?

You keep telling us how we need to change the party, stay the course, blah blah blah. You keep pointing to other failures of third parties and that they have no chance of success and somehow that means we shouldn't bother.

I can see that it was a mistake to align with you folks. You only know one thing. Keep the masses polarized and off balance. Good luck with that. :cool:

[Jae0]

We're Still Running For Republican Nomination Incase You People Forgot.

Why Is This An Issue?

[scooter]

I still don't understand how the independent talk is hurting the current campaign? If the GOP doesn't come around after the convetion and name RP the candidate, then I would be disappointed if he didn't continue on all the way through the general election as an independent.

This is not a distraction to what is currently going on. It is a dream that some people have and I think it is perfectly fine for them to have it. Ron Paul going up against both major parties and taking them out would be an amazing triumph.

If Ron Paul ran as independent, it would be the most successful 3rd party campaign ever BECAUSE of the successful attempt for the GOP nomination.

I can see you worried about them losing focus on the primaries, but don't let them stop dreaming. The GOP is quite possibly too far gone. Stay positive, but don't lose the ability to reason with reality.

[libertyanne]

[QUOTE=scooter;1171886]I still don't understand how the independent talk is hurting the current campaign? If the GOP doesn't come around after the convetion and name RP the candidate, then I would be disappointed if he didn't continue on all the way through the general election as an independent.


---- The email I got wanted Ron Paul to change to Republican after Tuesday if he doesn't do well! That is way before the convention.

And if he is not a Republican, will he ever get back in Congress to help lead all the other Ron Paul supporters who become congressmen?

[Lou337]

Please stop talking about the independent run. What he does with his campaign is his business. We are going for the Republican nomination at the moment so please focus on one thing at a time.

If you want to help his chances of getting Super Tuesday results up, please donate to the Ron Paul Newspaper right now.

How many people are undecided until the last day? About 30%? This paper will spread the word, but they need the last bit of funds. We have raised about $5,196 and some cents but they need $6,000.

Translation: Only $800-ish more is needed to get them out.

Please spread the word. This is one time where your money really equals votes.

[LukeNM]

I am an "R" and will only vote for an "R". Third parties do not have a chance, please face up to that fact. I have done the protest vote thing in the past and that did not work for me...

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

You GOP Loyalists are really desperate aren't you?


Seems like it. Paul will run as he chooses, and I'll vote for him regardless. Right now, I'm supporting his run for the republican nomination. When he leaves, I leave. It's a very simple course to follow, for a very simple mind like mine.

I will not be supporting any other GOP candidates unless they're good enough to get Paul's endorsement. Otherwise, it's like sticking with an abusive spouse hoping they'll change someday. No thanks.

[Feenix566]

Ron Paul running as a third party candidate (again) would be a bad idea, and here's why:

In our system of democracy, we elect our leaders directly. This mechanism CAUSES the two-party system. How? Because fear is a much more powerful motivator than hope. People don't vote FOR a candidate, they vote AGAINST a candidate. The best way to vote against a candidate is to vote for the guy who's most likely to beat them. That's how you end up with a two party system. Nobody wants to "waste their vote" on a candidate who's not going to win, except for us idealists. Unfortunately, there aren't enough idealists to win the election.

For instance, my cousin is voting for Romney because she listens to a lot of talk radio and she's afraid of a McCain presidency. She's not voting for Romney because he inspired her with his views, she's voting out of fear. I think you'll find this sort of attitude in the vast majority of voters. Even in a primary race, where parties don't matter, it still inevitably becomes a decision between two candidates, because fear plays such a huge role.

If Ron Paul runs as a third party candidate, he may get millions of votes. He may even get tens of millions of votes. But he won't win any states, because he won't beat the Dems or Reps in any states, because too many people will be voting out of fear and not hope. Then it will be reported in the MSM that Ron Paul got zero electoral votes, and that will reinforce the image that third parties can't do anything. Those tens of millions of votes will mean nothing.

The electoral college keeps the two-party system in place. Why else do you think we still have it? Until that gets abolished, there's just no point in running for President as a third party.

Just for the record, I voted for Badnarik in 2004.

[familydog]

I got an email this morning urging me to persuade Ron Paul to run as an independent or on a 3rd party ticket later on.

This is either from misguided supporters, or from people who really do not want us to fix America.

Why must this NEVER happen?

The elite know that what we are doing is working. They plan for the long run. Whether or not Ron Paul gets the nomination or becomes president, every day he is showing that the ONLY way we can take our country and economy back is to TAKE OVER THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

Every day, their supporters DIE. People like the evil men who stole votes in NH whom you can see in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKQEQ7qHvgM

The Ron Paul revolution is young,

Every day, we enrol and educate new members.

Using the systems already in place, such as the debates, the Ron Paul revolution has done miracles.

We have hundreds, possibly thousands of supporters who have spent their time and money becoming delegates. We can NOT abandon these people and switch parties.

Delegates are the secret weapon of the elite that were to be used against us. But in this case, that weapon will blow up in their faces.

Every single day, people become delegates and join the Republican Party. Every new election we, who knew next to nothing about politics, are learning about all the scams in the system.

The Revolution is not about one man.

It is about the message and changing the system.

The elite and bankers set up a great two party system for controlling America and it's money. They know that the only thing that can change that system is if we take over one of the parties, like a swarm of ants.

There are now, and probably always will be, MILLIONS of people who will hear of and vote for Ron Paul because he is a Republican. But who will NEVER hear of him if he is a third party candidate. This kind of thing has been proven over and over in the past.

Remember that the revolution will spread to state and local government as well, if we do it this way.

So, whether it is about this election for president, or later ones for the presidency or congress, the ONLY way that we will fix things is to keep doing what we are doing now. That is, charging the battlements of the Republican party and taking it over completely, so that one day the elections and candidates are honest.

The elite know that most of their power base are old.

Whatever happens, remain focused. The systems are already in place for us to save America using the Republican party. Any other way will lead to nothing. May the ants win.

Oh boy. You've opened up a can of worms :p

Be prepared to be called a traitor, GOP lackey, unpatriotic, etc.

[rdenner]

So let's say Ron Paul wins by some miracle as an independent/libertarian/constitution party. THEN WHAT? By his own admission he needs the people's representatives to help him make the changes we need. Those will be controlled 100% by either the Dems or the Repubs..

This movement I'm sorry to say is bigger than Ron Paul and Dr Paul understands this. We are building an unstoppable force here. UNDERSTAND what I'm talking about here.

I HAVE BEEN IN THIS MOVEMENT for over 15 years so DON"T ANY OF YOU doubt my commitment to this cause. All of you Johnny come lately's don't have a fucking clue as to how hard it is to fight against the system. Those of us in this movement who have been doing it for decades know what we're talking about. I personally have been involved in Libertarian(big L) politics since about 1992. And we are worse off now than we were 15 years ago.

We have a golden opportunity to reshape a MAJOR POLITICAL party at the grass roots level. WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU REMAKE THE WHEEL??? The infrastructure is there and waiting for us to take it over.

In some areas of this country we could take over without so much as a fight. Like in Lucas County Ohio, there is essentially no GOP whatsoever as we've been dominated by scandal and Dems for so long, it's not even funny.

With the 120 Plus Ron Paul supporters on Meetup ALONE, we could take over in a heart beat.

That's just one county in ONE STATE. We have over 1800 Meetups of different sizes, not to mention the Facebooks and others out there.

You will be sorely disappointed if you think that Ron Paul is going to go back on his word and jump ship to be an Independent. The Libertarian Party for the most part has turned it's back on all of us anyways. They are to busy fighting with each other to bother helping us out in this revolution.(talking about the entrenched Libertarian hierarchy)..

If you want this movement to mean something, than you better get your head around this idea and embrace it.

Robert

[Iwantchange]

I agree with parts of this, but not all of it. I don't think by running for an Independent people are going to forget that the republican party is broken or discourage people to run for the republican party. And you said you yourself the bankers and the elites own both parties so why not make the biggest statement of all and get an Independent elected. I think America wants change and their willing to vote Independent to get that change.

I know several republicans that already plan on voting for the democrats if Obama wins, but if Clinton wins they've made the premeditated statement that there going to vote Independent instead of voting for the lesser of two evils.

[Karmus]

Decent idea from the OP but I think the more revolutionary and helpful thing to this nation would be to do away with this disgusting two party system. It polarizes politics and creates a competetive environment where party lines are more important than liberty, freedom, and whats good for America. Democrats and Republicans are just that, not Americans, and that is what we really need. I sincerely believe that Ron should run 3rd party or AT LEAST keep the threat available. The benefits of this is that Ron poses a severe threat to the Republican's chances this coming November, so in order to prevent him from defecting to a third party they may just offer him a really important position at the RNC. Just speculation but it will definitely be interesting to see how this pans out.

[pcosmar]

We don't have 20 or 30 years to get it right.
We don't have 10 years.
If we don't turn it around in the next 2 years, the game is OVER.
Ron Paul is the only hope of doing this peacefully.

I am working to that end.
I am preparing for otherwise.

The GOP is the problem, not the answer.

[Kade]

The systems are already in place for us to save America using the Republican party.

WHAT?! You mean the Party of massive military spending, suspension of civil liberties, legislating vice, and absolute corporatism? Are you smoking mad?

I'd prefer my tax money going to educating a few folks over allowing the Constitution to be torn to shreds by an out of control zeitgeist controlling fascist party. Sorry.

[airborne373]

Taking back the Republican Party is the only real option.

[nullvalu]

I urge everyone here to watch this video, An Idea Whose Time Has Come (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958), especially any of you who may disagree with the OP. This is absolutely crucial and is why I'm organizing people to get involved as Precinct Committeemen within the GOP.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

The GOP Trolls and Hacks are getting desperate, people! You know what this means. They see the writing on the wall.

Soon Ron will launch his independent run and change the country forever!!

[pcosmar]

The Republican Party is only the vehicle of the Revolution for now.
If it gets us where we want to go, fine.
If it does not, it gets left on the side of the road.

I have NO loyalty to this Corrupt system.

[DeadtoSin]

I want am a backer of reforming the Republican party. I think that is the best idea, but I'll go with what the majority here seems to want.

You know, had the Republican Party simply tried to make it so that Ron Paul was treated as fairly as Giuliani, Romney, and McCain, I MIGHT have voted for the candidate they picked. I would have done this out of a sense of fair play, since we legitimately lost the election.

If Ron Paul does not get the nomination this go-around, I will be punishing the Republican Party because of how unfairly we are a group were treated. I feel like my vote was basically spit on, why should I offer it up to the very group that spit on my vote?

They need to be punished, but just so that they understand that next election that we can and will steal the vote from them again if they treat us unfairly.

Some people say it is like being a spoiled brat to note vote for the candidate the party picks, and that the world isn't fair. "Sure, Ron Paul should have gotten more time, but the world isn't fair."

Then when they say that I tell them that its going to be really unfair when all the Ron Paul supporters yank the election out from under the party and give it to the Democrats.

[sgrooms]

the revolution will NOT happen in a year. whether he gets elected this year or not.

when RP gets elected, you think all of a sudden that the house and senate are going to agree with him on everything? of course not!!

ESPECIALLY if we run as independent. running independent in the general election, whether or not we win, WILL only hurt and slow down this revolution.

[Feenix566]

The GOP Trolls and Hacks are getting desperate, people! You know what this means. They see the writing on the wall.

Soon Ron will launch his independent run and change the country forever!!

I can understand where you're coming from, but believe me: I am no GOP loyalist. I'm just being realistic.


The Republican Party is only the vehicle of the Revolution for now.
If it gets us where we want to go, fine.
If it does not, it gets left on the side of the road.

I have NO loyalty to this Corrupt system.

Consider this: The GOP is made up mostly of old people, and people with outdated views. They're folks who support ideas like constitutional amendments to ban flag burning and gay marriage, and who think these ideas are the most pressing of the day. They're the kind of people who think that Barack Obama's candidacy is the worst thing to ever happen this country because of the color of his skin.

Young and well informed people don't ascribe to these kinds of ideas. And it's only a matter of time before those who do think this way all die of old age. I know that sounds insensitive, but it's true.

In other words: if the GOP is forced to rely on its current base of support, its demise is inevitable! The party will NEED to find a new base as its current base dies off.

We can be that new base, or we can sit around lamenting the two-party system while the Democrats turn the USA into the Soviet Union. The decision is ours.

[seeker1]

I am an "R" and will only vote for an "R". Third parties do not have a chance, please face up to that fact. I have done the protest vote thing in the past and that did not work for me...

Thanks for your honesty. I know you "R" not alone and most of the other "R"'s feel like you do.

All for "R" and "R"s for "R"s- the three musket-"R"-s cheer.

Voting for Bush worked for you, did it?:cool:

[Mortikhi]

If it took the neocons 20 years to take over the party, how long would it take us?

I dont have 20 years worth of patience.

[nullvalu]

If it took the neocons 20 years to take over the party, how long would it take us?

I dont have 20 years worth of patience.

As long as it takes. Unfortunately this is not a war that can won overnight. The sooner we realize this, the sooner we can all come up with practical ideas for our movement.

[scooter]

What is with all of this Republican loyalty? The Republican Party is dead. Their "conservative" base is really "neoconservative."

I say put equal effort into reforming that party and possibly creating new ones. If Ross Perot could get 20% of the national vote after dropping out of the race, it is definitely possible.

And this argument that him being "independent" will make him less viable in office is absurd. He is practically a libertarian in the Republican party anyway. The GOP will be against him regardless of how he runs.

Now, I say put all of your focus into the primaries because that's what we're working on for now. But to say that you'll basically give up if Ron decides to stay in the race longer, then you really shouldn't be here anyway.

For the guy who said... I am an "R" and will only vote for an "R"... that's the reason why we are so screwed right now. Both the Dems and the Repubs are terrible parties. The more you believe the BS about "oh no must vote Republican to save from Clinton" the worse it will get.

WAKE UP. Both parties are basically the same! Try to reform one of them, but if it doesn't work, don't just fall back in line!!!

[roXet]

I am an "R" and will only vote for an "R". Third parties do not have a chance, please face up to that fact. I have done the protest vote thing in the past and that did not work for me...

Then YOU are the problem. If you head is that far up your ass I don't understand how you got to be a RP supporter.

[nullvalu]

Ok this flame bating is not going to get us anywhere.

After the election, regardless of an independent run, Ron Paul will still be a Republican. I doubt most of us are "loyal" to the party. This is about taking over the party, not about joining up and getting cozy with the status quo of the party.

[Jim_Karr]

We're busy running for the Republican nomination why are people hurting our efforts by continuing to bring up third party?

To keep the GOP worried. I say we threaten to vote 3rd party and the GOP will loose for sure as they are certain to do so without Ron Paul supporters.Without us the Democrats will win hands down.

[Feenix566]

Ok this flame bating is not going to get us anywhere.

After the election, regardless of an independent run, Ron Paul will still be a Republican. I doubt most of us are "loyal" to the party. This is about taking over the party, not about joining up and getting cozy with the status quo of the party.

You are correct, sir.

I think people's reluctance to be associated with the GOP stems from a collectivist mindset that dictates that all members of the GOP are the same. We're not collectivists, folks! We think for ourselves, and we must understand that the D and the R are just labels, and they don't dictate our opinions.

[qh4dotcom]

If Ron Paul does not get the Republican nomination and does not run independent...then he has no chance of ever becoming U.S President...unless he wants and is physicaly able to do so in 2012 at the age of 76.

[nullvalu]

You are correct, sir.

I think people's reluctance to be associated with the GOP stems from a collectivist mindset that dictates that all members of the GOP are the same. We're not collectivists, folks! We think for ourselves, and we must understand that the D and the R are just labels, and they don't dictate our opinions.

Absolutely. And hell, if you want, organize a parallel infiltration into the Democrat party as well. Why the hell not? I mean - today you vote for R or D and it makes no difference - big gov't wins. Why not take over both parties and give people no choice in the opposite direction - R or D = small gov't. :cool:

[FindLiberty]

Election laws suck in ILL-n-NOISE

Sore Loser Law - One Bite at the Apple

CORRECTION : this applies only to state not federal

I don't know if this may stop RP from 3rd
party, or even a write-in. Many states have an
election law" or two, or three, ...or a zillion:
Ya can't run in Nov (another party) unless
ya win in da Primary! (for that election
cycle)

I'm not sure about this law, and
it may not even apply since it's designed

CORRECTION : this applies only to state not federal
to prevent "minor" parties ballot access
when the local political machine crushes 'em
the FIRST time. GOP is not minor, but it may
soon be chopped and diced %-o

WHO EVER GET ELECTED TAKES THE BLAME
for the mess/war we are in/headed deeper into...
So, the democratic party takes the blame? ;-)

Maybe the LP will rise from those ashes in 2012,
if there are humans living (above ground) by then.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Newspapers leave Ron Paul off of the list of candidates!
Fughgettaboutit? NEVER! Next, Door-2-Door or done?

[Revolution9]

That is defiantly one strategy, but you have to consider the possibility that the Republican party is too far gone to save.

Then let's bury the corpse and give birth to the child. We have an obstetrician on duty. Get the coroner to sign the death certificate and let's roll.

Best
Randy

[Mortikhi]

As long as it takes. Unfortunately this is not a war that can won overnight. The sooner we realize this, the sooner we can all come up with practical ideas for our movement.
Have fun then. I won't raise my children in this country if it keeps the course she is presently on.

[Revolution9]

You GOP Loyalists are really desperate aren't you?

You keep telling us how we need to change the party, stay the course, blah blah blah. You keep pointing to other failures of third parties and that they have no chance of success and somehow that means we shouldn't bother.

I can see that it was a mistake to align with you folks. You only know one thing. Keep the masses polarized and off balance. Good luck with that. :cool:

You can pull up your drawers and stop bleating tomfoolery from your rectum now.

HTH
Randy

[Feenix566]

If Ron Paul does not get the Republican nomination and does not run independent...then he has no chance of ever becoming U.S President...unless he wants and is physicaly able to do so in 2012 at the age of 76.

This isn't about Ron Paul. It's about the message.

As Dr. Paul has said himself many times, he's just one man. It's the message that matters.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

You can pull up your drawers and stop bleating tomfoolery from your rectum now.

HTH
Randy

If you don't like talk about an iNDY run, you better not come back after Feb 6th, because the momentum is already starting to build, and anti-independent trolls like you will be marginalized sooner than you can imagine.

The tide is already shifting.

Ron is 72 years old. It's this year or never.

On to the White House!!

[nullvalu]

Have fun then. I won't raise my children in this country if it keeps the course she is presently on.

No offense man, but you sound pretty apathetic. I URGE you to take a little time and watch this video, it sealed my convictions to stand up and do something. G. Edward Griffin's analogy on apathy in this video is spot-on. Please watch it and let me know if you feel any different after viewing.. Big thanks to torchbearer for sharing this link with me yesterday.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958

[tamor]

Remember Ron Paul has run for a third party and knows how bias this country is against a third party candidate.

[John P Slevin]

You can pull up your drawers and stop bleating tomfoolery from your rectum now.

HTH
Randy

Or, Revolution9, you simply can acquaint yourself with some simple facts of life. Start with the one which tells ANY logical, sentient being that Ron Paul NEVER had a chance for the GOP nomination...then, go from there.

Of course, you will not take the logical course, will you.

[sutt205]

There is not even a question about this as far as I'm concerned. If Dr. Paul doesn't get the nomination it is over for him unless he runs 3rd party. We all know we will get more exposure if that happens than if it doesn't. Win or lose it helps the message if he runs all the way through the general election.

I do agree that are best chance for change in the long run is over running the GOP. The people who are against this are thinking about it the wrong way. It isn't about what the GOP is today but what it will become if our message of freedom becomes the platform. The GOP is in shambles because of its idealology. It is just sitting there ready for us to storm in and take it. When we do take it over I suggest putting a RP in front of the GOP. RPGOP How do you like us now.

[Revolution9]

The GOP Trolls and Hacks are getting desperate, people! You know what this means. They see the writing on the wall.

Soon Ron will launch his independent run and change the country forever!!

Ya know something junior. I ain't no Republican hack. Did not like Reagan or Bush or Bush or Dole or McCain or any of the SOB's. But I love Ron Paul. The only politician worth supporting on the entire planet. I was basically ant-political.. I understood the whole system since 1981 and what they were up to and watched them do it step by step. You keep harping on with the same broken record third party bullsht. You are a youngster.. You will get crushed and marginalised and eventually give up as a third paruy. You will get nowhere and it will take you forty years to do so. but that doesn't matter to your peabrained bb in a boxcar mentality. You think we should all sacrifice our treasure and time so that some stupid egotripper can have his peurile wet dream of a third party run..just to show them who is boss. Well, what you will show them is your ass for a firm and lasting boot to the curb.

You wanna stick it to the man. Become the man. A third party is simply the teenager in the mailroom. So..before you go shooting your piehole off again with bogus proclamations of fictional futures and divisive rhetoric, grab a clue or two from those who were in the trenches while you were still crapping mustard in your diapers.

Randy

[Karsten]

My loyalty was NEVER to the Republican Party. I had to hold my nose to swtich to Republican to be able to vote for Ron Paul. I cannot wait until after February 5th when I can go back to being independent.

I was under the impression that the Ron Paul Revolution was an American Revolution, not a Republican Revolution.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

Or, Revolution9, you simply can acquaint yourself with some simple facts of life. Start with the one which tells ANY logical, sentient being that Ron Paul NEVER had a chance for the GOP nomination...then, go from there.

Of course, you will not take the logical course, will you.

Some of these anti-iNDY trolls either have no knowledge of the GOP and how it works, or they are literally trolls trying to derail Ron's independent run out of loyalty to that failing party. It's sad to see.

Also, by trolling against the iNDY run, they are causing average RP supporters to lose hope and leave us. If all your hopes are tied to this stupid, corrupt GOP primary, you get disheartened when RP doesn't win primaries. If your real goal is an independent run, then the primary losses never bother you at all, because you know you are working toward a larger goal.

The anti-iNDY folks will be put in their place soon enough. Have patience and watch what happens. The tide is already turning against them, so they have become openly desperate, as eveidenced by this thread.

[Menthol Patch]

I could care less about the Republican Party.

I do not support the Republican Party.

[seeker1]

You can pull up your drawers and stop bleating tomfoolery from your rectum now.

HTH
Randy

The GOP loyalists only care about their party and fear an independent run at the presidency. So where's the bleating tomfoolery?

I'm afraid you sound like the GOP sheep to me with your foolish talk.

Too funny. But I just don't get it.:cool:

[Karsten]

I could care less about the Republican Party.

I do not support the Republican Party.

+1

[skiingff]

Look, I've been a member of the Libertarian Party for 2 years. Way before I even knew who Ron Paul was. I, too, won't vote for a candidate unless I agree with his or her general philosophy.

However, I realize the Libertarian Party is mostly an educational organization, and doesn't run advertisements to expand its base, etc. The 2 main parties, however, have hundreds of PACs and organizations dedicated to funding and electing their respective candidates.

I will remain a member of the LP for principle, but until we take over the Republican Party and change the election laws, the laws will always be biased against 3rd parties and make it impractical to run as one.

That's why we need to register R and do our part to change the party. The party is dying, the older neocons won't be here forever, and it'll be wide open for the taking.

That's my .02

[seeker1]

My loyalty was NEVER to the Republican Party. I had to hold my nose to swtich to Republican to be able to vote for Ron Paul. I cannot wait until after February 5th when I can go back to being independent.

I was under the impression that the Ron Paul Revolution was an American Revolution, not a Republican Revolution.

I was under that same impression.

the Ron Paul Revolution is an American Revolution, not a Republican Revolution!:cool:

[Bilgefisher]

I could care less about the Republican Party.

I do not support the Republican Party.

Same here, but I simply don't get why everyone thinks he'll run independent. You support the man because he is honest and sticks to his guns. Then why in the hell do you think he will go against what he has said 100 times. He will not run as an independent. Perhaps I missed something here, but he seems to have spelled it out pretty clearly.

[Karsten]

It's amazing to me the loyalty that some of you have to the Republican Party. Please remember, though, that the majority of Ron Paul supporters are Independents, or come from another party who switched over to vote for Ron Paul. Most of us couldn't care less about the Republican Party. If the Republican Party died tomorrow I couldn't care less.

[Karsten]

Same here, but I simply don't get why everyone thinks he'll run independent. You support the man because he is honest and sticks to his guns. Then why in the hell do you think he will go against what he has said 100 times. He will not run as an independent. Perhaps I missed something here, but he seems to have spelled it out pretty clearly.

I guess it's just hope. I'm hoping for that 1% chance that he does. I know that's unlikely, but it would be cool if he did.

[literatim]

MayTheRonBeWithYou, crawl back into the hole you came out of, please.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

Look, I've been a member of the Libertarian Party for 2 years. Way before I even knew who Ron Paul was. I, too, won't vote for a candidate unless I agree with his or her general philosophy.

However, I realize the Libertarian Party is mostly an educational organization, and doesn't run advertisements to expand its base, etc. The 2 main parties, however, have hundreds of PACs and organizations dedicated to funding and electing their respective candidates.

I will remain a member of the LP for principle, but until we take over the Republican Party and change the election laws, the laws will always be biased against 3rd parties and make it impractical to run as one.

That's why we need to register R and do our part to change the party. The party is dying, the older neocons won't be here forever, and it'll be wide open for the taking.

That's my .02


Unfortunately the neocons are not the only problem in the GOP. The "Christian Conservative" and "Family Values" people are incredibly strong and basically have a stranglehold on the party, and will for decades to come. They will never, ever accept a candidate who wants to legalize drugs, period. It will never, ever happen. You are suggesting that we fight a battle that can never be won. Read Sun Tzu. All battles are won or lost before they are ever fought. We must choose fights we can WIN, and battlefields where we are not at such a huge disadvantage from the start.

The country is literally starving for an independent choice.

[nullvalu]

I have no problem with an independent run, or those who are promoting it. My only question for you folks is what will you do after this election is over? Randy, through all his fire spitting wording, is absolutely right. A third party solution in this country will not work, and Ron Paul knows this. The only reason he would consider doing it is to try to expand the base of freedom fighters for the future.

Those who are saying this isn't a Republican Revolution are also absolutely correct! It's not! Taking over that party is a means to keep our movement going. It has nothing to do with party loyalty.

[literatim]

We have 6 months of primaries and caucuses ahead. Ron Paul is not going to give up his House seat to run 3rd party or as an independent. Give it up.

[skiingff]

Unfortunately the neocons are not the only problem in the GOP. The "Christian Conservative" and "Family Values" people are incredibly strong and basically have a stranglehold on the party, and will for decades to come. They will never, ever accept a candidate who wants to legalize drugs, period. It will never, ever happen. You are suggesting that we fight a battle that can never be won. Read Sun Tzu. All battles are won or lost before they are ever fought. We must choose fights we can WIN, and battlefields where we are not at such a huge disadvantage from the start.

The country is literally starving for an independent choice.

I live in liberal Northern Virginia. We can easily take over the GOP here.

For more conservative areas, yes, it will take some time and effort, but in order to change the system you must first infiltrate it. Change comes from within.

The GOP is a dying breed, and I feel Ron Paul realizes this. Rand Paul (Ron Paul's son) specifically said at one rally that we could take over the GOP if we just attended the poorly-attended local meetings. I believe this.

Again, I don't mind being in the LP and being a non-affiliated voter (we don't have voter affiliations in Virginia), but I will also fight to get our local Ron Paul Republicans support they deserve.

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

We have 6 months of primaries and caucuses ahead. Ron Paul is not going to give up his House seat to run 3rd party or as an independent. Give it up.

The same tired lies. SHOW EVIDENCE that Ron cannot run iNDY and keep his seat.

WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE???

[skiingff]

P.S. If we become GOP delegates, we can help determine the GOP platform ;)

Get it?

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Same here, but I simply don't get why everyone thinks he'll run independent. You support the man because he is honest and sticks to his guns. Then why in the hell do you think he will go against what he has said 100 times. He will not run as an independent. Perhaps I missed something here, but he seems to have spelled it out pretty clearly.

I don't think that's an accurate characterization of his comments on the matter.

[seeker1]

MayTheRonBeWithYou, crawl back into the hole you came out of, please.

It would be funny, if it weren't so sad.

BTW, I see you got out your concordance to dazzle us with your liberty bible verses. I can see where you'd have a problem with a free thinker.:cool:

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." -Buddha

[Karsten]

P.S. If we become GOP delegates, we can help determine the GOP platform ;)

Get it?

I'd rather help determine the American platform.

I could care less about the GOP.

[Ball]

If Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination, the best thing that can happen for this country is if the GOP collapses utterly.

From the beginning, the Republican Party is the party of Great Awakening progressives like Huckabee. The Republican party was formed out of crazy militarists out of the Henry Clay mold, and now McCain. The Republican party is the party of subsidies, tariffs, centralization of power, and corporate favoritism.

The ONLY time the Republican party could have been considered pro-liberty was after the FDR Democrats pushed through the New Deal, forcing all the sane politicians the other way. They never overturned the New Deal, and now, they won't even get rid of the DoE. Hell, the government has never EVER expanded at the rate it did during the Republican-dominated congress with Dubya. This should have been predictable, but it turns out most Republicans (voters) are dupes who think they control this beast.

The Republican party is now nearly completely comprised of crazy pro-war authoritarians who use every dirty trick in the book to keep their power. They continue to dangle liberty in front of your nose in order to keep the party alive. Why you want to be fooled like this is beyond me, maybe you bought into the whole "OMG, the Democrats are going to destroy America!" BS. What's destroying America is self-delusion by the voters and divide & conquer tactics by the elite. However, it all falls apart if there aren't two establishment parties.

So you know what? SCREW THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!

[Bilgefisher]

I don't think that's an accurate characterization of his comments on the matter.

By all means explain where I am wrong. Please let me know.

[Karsten]

If Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination, the best thing that can happen for this country is if the GOP collapses utterly.

From the beginning, the Republican Party is the party of Great Awakening progressives like Huckabee. The Republican party was formed out of crazy militarists out of the Henry Clay mold, and now McCain. The Republican party is the party of subsidies, tariffs, centralization of power, and corporate favoritism.

The ONLY time the Republican party could have been considered pro-liberty was after the FDR Democrats pushed through the New Deal, forcing all the sane politicians the other way. They never overturned the New Deal, and now, they won't even get rid of the DoE. Hell, the government has never EVER expanded at the rate it did during the Republican-dominated congress with Dubya. This should have been predictable, but it turns out most Republicans (voters) are dupes who think they control this beast.

The Republican party is now nearly completely comprised of crazy pro-war authoritarians who use every dirty trick in the book to keep their power. They continue to dangle liberty in front of your nose in order to keep the party alive. Why you want to be fooled like this is beyond me, maybe you bought into the whole "OMG, the Democrats are going to destroy America!" BS. What's destroying America is self-delusion by the voters and divide & conquer tactics by the elite. However, it all falls apart if there aren't two establishment parties.

So you know what? SCREW THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!

Yeah. I mean, the big government tyrant Lincoln was the first Republican President.

[nullvalu]

If Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination, the best thing that can happen for this country is if the GOP collapses utterly.

From the beginning, the Republican Party is the party of Great Awakening progressives like Huckabee. The Republican party was formed out of crazy militarists out of the Henry Clay mold, and now McCain. The Republican party is the party of subsidies, tariffs, centralization of power, and corporate favoritism.

The ONLY time the Republican party could have been considered pro-liberty was after the FDR Democrats pushed through the New Deal, forcing all the sane politicians the other way. They never overturned the New Deal, and now, they won't even get rid of the DoE. Hell, the government has never EVER expanded at the rate it did during the Republican-dominated congress with Dubya. This should have been predictable, but it turns out most Republicans (voters) are dupes who think they control this beast.

The Republican party is now nearly completely comprised of crazy pro-war authoritarians who use every dirty trick in the book to keep their power. They continue to dangle liberty in front of your nose in order to keep the party alive. Why you want to be fooled like this is beyond me, maybe you bought into the whole "OMG, the Democrats are going to destroy America!" BS. What's destroying America is self-delusion by the voters and divide & conquer tactics by the elite. However, it all falls apart if there aren't two establishment parties.

So you know what? SCREW THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!

You make many good points, but you are still completely missing the point. You can not sit back and wait for the system to collapse and all the cards to fall into place like how it happens in your dreams and imagination. It won't happen. You have to make it happen with action. So what are you going to do??

[Dave39168]

The GOP is already a well established force. The best thing to do it to fix it. Become active in your GOP. It is broken right now, but it will probably be easier to fix it than to start our own party. Currently, we are making a lot of progress in the GOP (it seems). And as long as we are continuing to advance within the party, I see no reason to go 3rd party and have to start all over. Right now we are getting 5-15% or more of the republican's support for Paul. I'd say that is pretty good. considering we started with practically nothing. Currently, the best way to advance our ideas is through the republican party. If things change in the future, then we can revamp. but right now 3rd party would be a mistake.

(not saying i won't write him in anyway, but him actually declaring a 3rd party run will hurt him. And as a republican congressman it wouldn't look to good either.)

[nullvalu]

The GOP is already a well established force. The best thing to do it to fix it. Become active in your GOP. It is broken right now, but it will probably be easier to fix it than to start our own party. Currently, we are making a lot of progress in the GOP (it seems). And as long as we are continuing to advance within the party, I see no reason to go 3rd party and have to start all over. Right now we are getting 5-15% or more of the republican's support for Paul. I'd say that is pretty good. considering we started with practically nothing. Currently, the best way to advance our ideas is through the republican party. If things change in the future, then we can revamp. but right now 3rd party would be a mistake.

(not saying i won't write him in anyway, but him actually declaring a 3rd party run will hurt him. And as a republican congressman it wouldn't look to good either.)

Absolutely. It will be incredibly easy to do this, compared to other avenues. I don't want to spell out the details of what exactly we're up to in my county, but I have to say it will not be hard at all to do this starting at a local level. And like someone else already pointed out, most of the people who are currently involved are farkin' old! Not to be too morbid, but these people won't be around much longer! We can easilty step in & pick up the pieces.. AGAIN it has NOTHING to do with party loyalty, and EVERYTHING to do with using the tools already available to us to attain our goals. Why reinvent the wheel when we can simple improve upon it?

[Mortikhi]

No offense man, but you sound pretty apathetic. I URGE you to take a little time and watch this video, it sealed my convictions to stand up and do something. G. Edward Griffin's analogy on apathy in this video is spot-on. Please watch it and let me know if you feel any different after viewing.. Big thanks to torchbearer for sharing this link with me yesterday.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958

It's not apathy, is scared-shittedness. I can't have a family in this country once TSHTF.

My options are emigrate or take up arms. Since the search for the latter is an exercise in futility, I will be doing the former.

[nullvalu]

It's not apathy, is scared-shittedness. I can't have a family in this country once TSHTF.

My options are emigrate or take up arms. Since the search for the latter is an exercise in futility, I will be doing the former.

Please, you didn't watch that video I sent you. "Abandoning Ship" is a symptom of apathy. Please watch that video. This is a global problem. You can not run away. You can not hide. It will not solve the problem, and it will not make your life or your family's lives any better. I'm also raising a family, I have 3 kids under the age of 7. I know what you're feeling. But I'd rather fight for a better world for them than run away. Remember, as a father, your primary role is to teach leadership skills to your children. This may not necessarily be PC but it's true. What does the action of giving up teach your children?

[Mortikhi]

Please, you didn't watch that video I sent you. "Abandoning Ship" is a symptom of apathy. Please watch that video. This is a global problem. You can not run away. You can not hide. It will not solve the problem, and it will not make your life or your family's lives any better. I'm also raising a family, I have 3 kids under the age of 7. I know what you're feeling. But I'd rather fight for a better world for them than run away. Remember, as a father, your primary role is to teach leadership skills to your children. This may not necessarily be PC but it's true. What does the action of giving up teach your children?
I can't watch the video now ( at work ) but if/when we leave, I will teach them that even a rat knows when to abandon a sinking ship.

By all means, stay here and keep getting taxed at 50% + whatever percentage it will take to keep social security afloat once the boomers retire.

On the way to work today, I was listening to NPR and how just a few thousand rebels were taking over a country in Africa to restore democracy. They are real men. We....well we are well-fed spineless sloths.

[hueylong]

FUNNY how NEW MEMBERS are always telling Dr. Paul what he can NEVER do.

If he believes it serves the interests of America, and a return to Constitutionalism -- Dr. Paul will run Independent or 3rd Party.

If he does -- the R3VOLUTION will support him 110%. And so will I.

[RonPaulFTFW]

I think we should continue to reform the Republican Party.

It's our best chance.

Making a third party will take at least 30-40 years I bet.

[nullvalu]

I will teach them that even a rat knows when to abandon a sinking ship.

I'm so fucking happy that our founding fathers didn't think like that. They'd have thrown in the towel after the Battle of Bunkerhill! And today, we'd all be worshiping a king on the other side of the ocean. Sad. :mad:

[Ball]

If Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination, the fewer people who vote for the party, the better.

I don't have to lift a finger to destroy the party, Bush did it for me. Just about the only good thing he ever did.

You say it'll be easy to take over the party, and yet after all the money poured into them what respect have we garnered? Look what happened at the DC straw poll.

You may as well suggest we take over the Socialist party.

[Mortikhi]

I'm so fucking happy that our founding fathers didn't think like that. They'd have thrown in the towel after the Battle of Bunkerhill! And today, we'd all be worshiping a king on the other side of the ocean. Sad. :mad:
Our founding fathers had a backbone and were ready to go to war.

Are you?

[tomveil]

Sadly, I think that if RP doesn't win, it won't matter. We won't have TIME to take over the GOP. Or start a 3rd party. If he doesn't win, the country will be totally bankrupt by the time the next president is done with their 1st term.

[DeanToPaulIn4Years]

Disagree completely.

[Rede]

If Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination, the fewer people who vote for the party, the better.

I don't have to lift a finger to destroy the party, Bush did it for me. Just about the only good thing he ever did.

The issue isn't the effect running as a third party will have on the Republican Party but the effect it will have on the credibility of the Ron Paul Revolution and the Ron Paul Republicans running for Congress. Long term, we're better off reforming the Republican Party and getting some like-minded people in Congress than spending all our time trying to get on the ballot every four years.

[N13]

I'm N13 and I approve of this thread.

[Ball]

Making a third party will take at least 30-40 years I bet.

When new parties are created, the change is rapid.

If we're the only ones keeping the Republican party afloat, then better to push them under.

The neo-cons are evidently a very successful minority, and they don't care what party they latch onto.

The Republican leadership aren't our friends. They give us NO respect. Stop showering them with money.

[nbhadja]

Can't believe some of you GOP lovers won't vote outside of your party.

Look if RP doesn't get the republican nomination, it will be better for him to run as an independent/3rd party than for him to not run at all. It's that simple.

[Ball]

BTW, if you haven't noticed, we're giving the Republicans a chance. There has never been a clearer choice, and we see what's happening. Please, don't fool yourself into believing the GOP is merely passive in Ron being shut out. Look what happened in Louisiana!

I'm not saying don't run as a Republican, if you wish. If the GOP is as weak as you say, then you may run unopposed. Unfortunately, you're living in a dream world, as evidenced by the GOP actively running candidates AGAINST Ron every two years (backed by our other friend, the NRA).

What am I missing here? I'm not going to spend my time and treasure to help the GOP destroy America.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

By all means explain where I am wrong. Please let me know.

I've never seen him make a statement on the matter completely ruling out a 3rd party or independent run. They've tried to paint him in that corner 100s of times, because they fear an independent run from him. He always has the same "not entirely ruling anything out" answer.

He will manage his political career as he sees fit. A 3rd party or independent run is not counter to anything he's ever said. It's obvious that the entire mainstream media and even his own party are completely against him.

Had he been given a fair shot and the rest of the electorate didn't want what I want, then I'd just have to deal with that personally. Instead, they've marginalized huge accomplishments and tried to smear him at every turn.

Unless he drops out, I'm campaigning until November. His party affiliation is of no concern to me.

[The Only Woj]

True Conservative Bruce Wayne: The Republican party isn't beyond saving ... give me more time, there are good people here.

Neo-con Ra's Al Ghul: How can you defend a party so corrupt we have infiltrated every level of it's infrastructure?

...

Ron Paul shouldn't run 3rd party. He should run as a Republican, but on the ballot under the name the Constitution Party or Libertarian. But I think having a parallel campaign to the GOP would be interesting. Fact of the matter is, if Ron doesn't go through the national, the message is going to stop here. Lots don't pay attention until the general election starts up. No matter what, Ron has to keep his voice heard.

[IDefendThePlatform]

I am personally of the opinion that it is more important that RP run in the general election and continue to spread the message of individual liberty than it is for him to quietly return to his Republican congressional seat. I think an independent run will actually do more to help the Ron Paul Republicans running for various offices than if RP just returned to his previous position.

[IDefendThePlatform]

Interesting from wikipedia about Ross Perot's Independent run in 1992:

[edit] 1992 presidential candidacy

Ross Perot on the cover of Time MagazineOn February 20, 1992, he appeared on CNN's Larry King Live and announced his intention to run if his supporters could get his name on the ballot in all 50 states. With such declared policies as balancing the federal budget, firm pro-choice stance, expansion of the war on drugs, ending outsourcing of jobs, opposition to gun control, belief in protectionism on trade, his support of the Environmental Protection Agency and enacting electronic direct democracy via "electronic town halls," he became a potential candidate and soon polled roughly even with the two major party candidates.

Perot's candidacy received increasing media attention when the competitive phase of the primary season ended for the two major parties. President George H.W. Bush was losing support, and Democratic nominee Bill Clinton was still suffering from the numerous scandal allegations made in the previous months. With the insurgent candidacies of Republican Pat Buchanan and Democrat Jerry Brown winding down, Perot was the natural beneficiary of populist resentment toward establishment politicians. On May 25, 1992 he was featured on the cover of Time Magazine with the title "Waiting for Perot", an allusion to Samuel Beckett's play Waiting for Godot.[5]

With several months to go until the Democratic and Republican conventions, Perot filled the vacuum of election news, as his supporters began petition drives to get him on the ballot in all 50 states. This sense of momentum was reinforced when Perot hired two savvy campaign managers in Democrat Hamilton Jordan and Republican Ed Rollins.

Accompanying the surge in support for Perot was increased scrutiny of his background. Reports surfaced of Perot hiring private investigators to obtain personal information about business and political adversaries. His temperament was brought into question by some who claimed that he exhibited irritability and an authoritarian management style. Around the same time, Perot was criticized for a remark made during a speech at the NAACP convention. Perot was sympathizing with the plight of African Americans during tough economic times, but referred to his audience as "you people", a phrase that was loudly objected to by some members of the audience, and deemed insensitive by the media.

These developments had an adverse impact on Perot's campaign and his approval rating in opinion polls was no longer rising. On July 16, 1992, Perot reconsidered running for the presidency, even if he was not placed on all 50 state ballots. At that time he was only on 24 state ballots. He was encouraged by the selection of the Democratic party ticket of Bill Clinton and Al Gore at the Democratic National Convention.

Nevertheless, in September he qualified for all 50 state ballots. On October 1, he announced his intention to start running again. He explained his earlier withdrawal by claiming that Republican operatives had wanted to reveal compromising photos of his daughter, which would disrupt her wedding, and he wanted to spare her from embarrassment. Scott Barnes, a private investigator and security consultant who had testified to that effect and supported Perot's story would later, in 1997, reveal that he had tricked Perot into believing that it was true, but it was a hoax he created with others outside any political campaign. Barnes was a Perot supporter, and believed if it were revealed Republicans were involved in dirty tricks, it would harm Bush's candidacy.[6]

He campaigned in 16 states and spent an estimated $65.4 million of his own money. Perot employed the innovative strategy of purchasing half-hour blocks of time on major networks for infomercial-type campaign ads; these ads garnered more viewership than many sitcoms, with one Friday night program in October attracting 10.5 million viewers.[7]

Perot's running mate was retired Vice Admiral James Stockdale, a well-respected former Vietnam prisoner of war (POW). Perot was a long-time supporter of POWs. In December 1969 he organized and flew to North Vietnam in an attempt to deliver 30-tons of supplies to beleaguered American POWs in North Vietnam. Although North Vietnam blocked the flights, the effort was instrumental in bringing the plight of those POWs to the world's attention and their captors soon began treating them better.[2]

At one point in June, Perot led the polls with 39% (versus 31% for Bush and 25% for Clinton). Just prior to the debates, Perot received 7-9% support in nationwide polls. It is likely that the debates played a significant role in his ultimate receipt of 19% of the popular vote. Although his answers during the debates were often general, many Democrats and Republicans conceded that Perot won at least the first debate.[citation needed] In debate he is noted to have said: "Keep in mind our Constitution predates the Industrial Revolution. Our founders did not know about electricity, the train, telephones, radio, television, automobiles, airplanes, rockets, nuclear weapons, satellites, or space exploration. There's a lot they didn't know about. It would be interesting to see what kind of document they'd draft today. Just keeping it frozen in time won't hack it."[citation needed]

Perot displayed his contempt for the Washington establishment as he denounced Congress for its inaction. Washington, Perot said,

… has become a town filled with sound bites, shell games, handlers, media stuntmen who posture, create images, talk, shoot off Roman candles, but don't ever accomplish anything. We need deeds, not words, in this city.[citation needed]

In July, while Perot was pondering whether to run for office, his supporters established a campaign organization United We Stand America. Perot was late in making formal policy proposals, but most of what he did call for were intended to reduce the deficit. He wanted a gasoline tax increase and some cutbacks of Social Security.

In the 1992 election, he received 18.9% of the popular vote - approximately 19,741,065 votes - (but no electoral college votes), making him the most successful third-party presidential candidate in terms of the popular vote since Theodore Roosevelt in the 1912 election. Perot managed to finish second in two states: In Maine, Perot received 30.44% of the vote to Bush's 30.39% (Clinton won Maine with 38.77%); In Utah, Perot received 27.34% of the vote to Clinton's 24.65% (Bush won Utah with 43.36%).

According to Ronald Rapoport and Walter Stone (2005), Perot's appeal came from two sources. First was his outsider, crusading zeal that made the major parties seem reactionary. Second, he adopted specific positions that had been abandoned by both parties — he was nationalistic and isolationist; he was conservative in social policy. He opposed free trade. He was above all a crusader for a balanced budget, as he warned of the horrors of the national debt.

A detailed analysis of the voting demographics revealed that Perot's support drew heavily from across the political spectrum, with 20% of his votes coming from self-described liberals, 27% from self-described conservatives, and 53% coming from self-described moderates. Economically, however, the majority of Perot voters (57%) were middle class, earning between $15,000 and $49,000 annually, with the bulk of the remainder drawing from the upper middle class (29% earning over $50,000 annually).[8]

Based on his performance in the popular vote in 1992, Perot was entitled to receive federal election funding for 1996. Perot remained in the public eye after the election and championed opposition to NAFTA, urging voters to listen for the "giant sucking sound" of American jobs heading south to Mexico should NAFTA be ratified.

[VoteForRonPaul]

I was under the impression that the Ron Paul Revolution was an American Revolution, not a Republican Revolution.
Beautiful man!
And I believe that this is the opinion of the majority of Ron Paul's supporters.
But I also cannot deny that throw Ron Paul I have learned many things about the Republican party things which I would never knew if I did not listen to a man like him.
But knowing that the principles of the Republican party are good is totally meaningless if the so called Republican party has been hijacked by the most corrupt people in this country.
This party has only one chance which is Ron Paul and this chance is only a right now chance(no later) and if they would not wakeup and give him this chance then they better blame themselves for later consequences.
It is totally wrong to award this party with our loyalty if they fail this time to recognize us.

[steve005]

bump

[WRellim]

Can't believe some of you GOP lovers won't vote outside of your party.

Look if RP doesn't get the republican nomination, it will be better for him to run as an independent/3rd party than for him to not run at all. It's that simple.

Which tells me that you are NOT involved with your local GOP.

So you imagine that they are all some BIG, BAD, BOGEYMEN.


Most of the GOP -- like in my state of Wisconsin -- do NOT want or like McCain, really don't like Romney or Huckabee either -- they ONLY reason they do not support Ron Paul is because many of them are still "attached" to Bush and their insane Iraq War -- they rest just don't know WHAT to think.

THE "support" for that war WILL CHANGE -- as soon as a DEMOCRAT takes power and "owns" the Iraq War. If they are true Neo-cons they will leave the party and go for HRC (like Ann Coulter is doing) or they will stay home (like Rush Limbaugh).


The only local Republicans I have met who actually SUPPORT John McCain are essentially the really OLD folks who were (strangely enough) in the MINORITY back in 2000 in supporting McCain against the BUSHCO machine. Within a few years they will be either inactive, or quite frankly, dead.


Currently the rest of the party feels like they are having McCain "shoved" down their throats by the MEDIA and subsequently a few people in positions of power (who themselves do not LIKE McCain but feel they HAVE TO push for members to support "whoever" the primaries "choose") -- and the REASON they are pushing that is because otherwise -- like you, they will NOT vote for the Republican candidate. (And as a minority party losing ground every day, they need EVERY VOTE).

We CAN take over the Republican Party... but only if we stay ACTIVE ALL ALONG THE WAY to the next election.

You can't play "groundhog" and just stick your head up once every four (or worse eight) years and expect to make any solid difference. (That is one of the MAIN problems with all 3rd parties -- since they have few or no elected officials, they "disappear" between election cycles, lose every inch of ground they gained, and have to work hard to reclaim it again.)

[puppetmaster]

Lets take over all parties!! that way we don't ever lose our country!!

[nbhadja]

Which tells me that you are NOT involved with your local GOP.

So you imagine that they are all some BIG, BAD, BOGEYMEN.


Most of the GOP -- like in my state of Wisconsin -- do NOT want or like McCain, really don't like Romney or Huckabee either -- they ONLY reason they do not support Ron Paul is because many of them are still "attached" to Bush and their insane Iraq War -- they rest just don't know WHAT to think.

THE "support" for that war WILL CHANGE -- as soon as a DEMOCRAT takes power and "owns" the Iraq War. If they are true Neo-cons they will leave the party and go for HRC (like Ann Coulter is doing) or they will stay home (like Rush Limbaugh).


The only local Republicans I have met who actually SUPPORT John McCain are essentially the really OLD folks who were (strangely enough) in the MINORITY back in 2000 in supporting McCain against the BUSHCO machine. Within a few years they will be either inactive, or quite frankly, dead.


Currently the rest of the party feels like they are having McCain "shoved" down their throats by the MEDIA and subsequently a few people in positions of power (who themselves do not LIKE McCain but feel they HAVE TO push for members to support "whoever" the primaries "choose") -- and the REASON they are pushing that is because otherwise -- like you, they will NOT vote for the Republican candidate. (And as a minority party losing ground every day, they need EVERY VOTE).

We CAN take over the Republican Party... but only if we stay ACTIVE ALL ALONG THE WAY to the next election.

You can't play "groundhog" and just stick your head up once every four (or worse eight) years and expect to make any solid difference. (That is one of the MAIN problems with all 3rd parties -- since they have few or no elected officials, they "disappear" between election cycles, lose every inch of ground they gained, and have to work hard to reclaim it again.)

I normally went for the GOP before RP showed me the truth. I hated the democrats, and still do hate those communists. And I still would go for the GOP vs the illegal, welfare loving commucrats.

But RP running independent is far more productive than him not running at all (If he doesn't get the republican nomination).

And most of the GOP here in Florida would take Mitt over Ron Paul anyday. Sadly many have become brainwashed to think that preemptive war is effective and a good thing.

[VoteForRonPaul]

I have no problem with an independent run, or those who are promoting it. My only question for you folks is what will you do after this election is over? Randy, through all his fire spitting wording, is absolutely right. A third party solution in this country will not work, and Ron Paul knows this. ] for the future.
Well, I have to disagree here
First, who said that Ron Paul knows that a third party would not work? Ron Paul himself when he first ran for president in this election he has never thought that his message would get such a massive following. He never thought in it. But now he knows it! and he knows how serious this movement is and how sincere the followers are.
The situation now is 180 degree different from 20 years ago when he ran as a 3rd party before.
The Republican party has only one chance right now to restore their party and they know it. Ron Paul is the only Republican who can win this election without fraud or diebold and they better gain it or they would lose it forever.



The only reason he would consider doing it is to try to expand the base of freedom fighters
I have to agree here. And that is the main point. I myself so willing to donate for this 3rd party every month in case the republican party decides to sacrifice Ron Paul in this election. You cannot tell the Democrats and the independents who came over "keep fighting within a corrupt party" this would be a joke.
We all need to start a new pure start and enough of the junk of two parties and as you have said "expand the base of freedom fighters" I do not think RP would win if he runs as a third party but I do not care, what I care for is that this movement has to turn into something. And if Ron Paul does not unite us into something, very soon we will all banish and we will be forgotten and most likely we will be scattered between Republicans or Democrats and independents, which is the same old story. I really cannot take the moment to think that any of those jerks who are working for the MSM would be laughing at us or at our forgotten memory I just cannot think of it, that would bring me a heart attack, common guys. Together we can shake those big dirty heads! If we support the 3rd party with the same effort we have been doing for so long, within two years this small party would be a major party. All what I am saying is an assumption of what should be done if the Republican party would turn us down this time. It is all in their hands right now (they gain it or they lose it).

[1000-points-of-fright]

I have a question for all you GOP haters. If Ron Paul gets the nomination and wins the presidency he will be the head of the Republican party and his platform will be the GOP platform. Will you still hate the GOP and refuse to support it? If so, then you are no better than those who will only vote for a Republican.

If not, then your problem is not with the Republican party but with the current leadership and membership of the party. Change that and there's no problem.

Personally, I don't care. Both the GOP take-over and the independent run work for me.

[nullvalu]

I have a question for all you GOP haters. If Ron Paul gets the nomination and wins the presidency he will be the head of the Republican party and his platform will be the GOP platform. Will you still hate the GOP and refuse to support it? If so, then you are no better than those who will only vote for a Republican.

If not, then your problem is not with the Republican party but with the current leadership and membership of the party. Change that and there's no problem.

Personally, I don't care. Both the GOP take-over and the independent run work for me.

I agree with you except for your last statement. These are 2 separate things, the independent run I have no problem with because it keeps him in the race and his message front & center.

But we also have to think about what we'll do after the race. If you don't like the idea of taking over the GOP then fine, don't do that. But for god sake, DO NOT DO NOTHING.

[1000-points-of-fright]

But we also have to think about what we'll do after the race. If you don't like the idea of taking over the GOP then fine, don't do that. But for god sake, DO NOT DO NOTHING.

Obviously. I was implying that there's no reason why we shouldn't do both.

[John P Slevin]

Can't believe some of you GOP lovers won't vote outside of your party.

Look if RP doesn't get the republican nomination, it will be better for him to run as an independent/3rd party than for him to not run at all. It's that simple.

Absolutely.

[nullvalu]

Absolutely.

I'm not disagreeing with that. But I'm more concerned about what the GOP haters are going to do after the election, this is my only point. I hate the GOP as much as the next person, I voted for Badnarick in '04. But at the end of the day, Ron Paul will still be a Republican, and I just happen to think our best chances for progress are to take over the GOP. Become a part of the Republican Liberty Caucus, as another person pointed out in a separate thread.

My only point is that if the above plan is not for you, that's completely fine - just don't be idle. Come up with your own plans to promote liberty and follow through.

[sb10]

This is a tough call. If Romney and McCain remain neck to neck after Tuesday, with RP a respectable #3, gambling on a brokered GOP convention might be the way to go.

On the other hand, the Republican label turns off some Independents.

Is it easier to clean out the Augean stables or build a new clean stable from scratch?

[Ball]

I have a question for all you GOP haters....

Let me stop you right there...

I have no principled position against supporting any party, including the Communist Party. It's a matter of WHAT THEY DO and WHY!

Now, let's look at how the GOP has treated Ron Paul...

(forums reels in shock, horror, disgust, etc.)

and WHY do they treat him like this? Because the GOP are a bunch of FASCIST WAR MONGERS who want to KEEP IN IRAQ and TRAMPLE ON YOUR RIGHTS. Hell, it's not even that principled! They just want MONEY (including yours).

But hey, I'm still giving them a chance, eh? I don't buy the whole kill them with kindness approach though. Ron Paul supporters in DC tried this, and they got spat in the face. As the party shrinks, they will want to close the ranks even more.

The GOP gets what they deserve. You can create a voting block without attaching yourself to a political party, then vie for attention. If you want to run for office, the party you choose ought to be based on local conditions, not the fact that the Ron's a Republican (who is kicked in the shins routinely).