Military Contractor

[UziSprayTF]

So I know this military contractor (Areospace related). This guy isn't super high up, but he is connected. He said that "they" have been talking about how much money they would make if Ron Paul does win the presidency because it would force many many many countries to actually build a real army. He listed these:

Canada
Germany
Japan
S. Korea
Turkey
Greece
France
Poland
Saudi Arabia
Qatar
Kuwait
Malaysia
Australia
Israel

Off the top of his head. And he has done business with at least half those countries. *Shrug* Just food for thought about where the smart money might go next election.

[CorkyAgain]

Interesting angle. Thanks!

[Anna Karenina]

Hey, that's an excellent talking point. I never considered that before.

[RPsupporterAtHeart]

I'm not sure I follow this at all.

I'm Canadian, so I won't go into that area. But why for example is a country like Germany on this list? Because the U.S. has a base there?

If that is the case it is wildly inaccurate.

[freelance]

I'm not sure I follow this at all.

I'm Canadian, so I won't go into that area. But why for example is a country like Germany on this list? Because the U.S. has a base there?

If that is the case it is wildly inaccurate.

Because if we no longer play policeman to the world, all those other countries will have to take responsibility for their own security. Why would we stay in Germany with a Ron Paul administration?

Excellent point, OP. I had never thought of it that way.

[Sey.Naci]

But other countries wouldn't feel so threatened if it weren't for US foreign policy stirring up the international pot.

[dirka]

Why aren't foreign countries helping Paul??

I would have thought that there are some European millionaires that would be willing to pay for a lot of things for paul. But alas, i guess not.

[Bubba]

So I know this military contractor (Areospace related). This guy isn't super high up, but he is connected. He said that "they" have been talking about how much money they would make if Ron Paul does win the presidency because it would force many many many countries to actually build a real army. He listed these:

Canada
Germany
Japan
S. Korea
Turkey
Greece
France
Poland
Saudi Arabia
Qatar
Kuwait
Malaysia
Australia
Israel

Off the top of his head. And he has done business with at least half those countries. *Shrug* Just food for thought about where the smart money might go next election.



What if they had a war and nobody showed up?

[RPsupporterAtHeart]

Because if we no longer play policeman to the world, all those other countries will have to take responsibility for their own security. Why would we stay in Germany with a Ron Paul administration?

Excellent point, OP. I had never thought of it that way.


Because if we no longer play policeman to the world, all those other countries will have to take responsibility for their own security. Why would we stay in Germany with a Ron Paul administration?

Excellent point, OP. I had never thought of it that way.


But that is the flaw in this point which i'm calling attention to just in case someone decides to use this as an argument and refers to that list. Germany doesn't need the U.S. there as it is because it is already strong, which in itself backs Ron Paul.

However, the problem in the statement made by the OP is that it proves Ron Pauls stance with inaccurate information which should never be brought up when defending the position. It should actually be quite the opposite., especially the part about making money from the countries as contractors.

Germany for example: Is one of the worlds most powerful armies currently. They produce and maintain arguably the worlds current most poweful tank the Leopard2A6 MBT. They don't have a massive personnel number, sitting roughly around 250k, but it is backed by highly advanced technology and training. As well their airforce is phasing out U.S. purchased and operated aircraft such as the Phantom and replacing it with a large compliment of Eurofighter Typhoons, when done will make it the second largest air force in Europe.

Turkey is in the same boat, as is France, Japan(more recently) and others..


I don't know who this "contractor" is, but if this is the list he gave he needs a serious lesson about world military. To me it seems to be simply playing off considerable misinformation a lot of people take as fact about the world outside of the United States. The States may have the most technologically advanced armed forces on the planet by far, but there are some very very powerful military outside of the commonly mentioned U.S. China, Russia, Israel, Britain circle. And they don't rely on the U.S. for protection or production for anything.

[Crickett]

Why aren't foreign countries helping Paul??

I would have thought that there are some European millionaires that would be willing to pay for a lot of things for paul. But alas, i guess not.

They would for SURE if they could but you have to be a US citizen to contribute.

[steve005]

They would for SURE if they could but you have to be a US citizen to contribute
no you don't, my mom sent money and she is a german.

[andy mcdee]

no you don't, my mom sent money and she is a german.

Uhm It's kind of wrong to fill in the box that states "I am an American citizen". FEC will probably weed out any foreigners when they sum it up.

[gerryb]

I've been wondering this myself. The Power-Elite want the US to militarily dominate the world.

But the actual companies they control would probably do much better under Ron Paul's platform.

Think about how we got out of the depression in the late 1930's early 1940's... We sold weapons. We will do the same thing to get out of our coming depression.

Hopefully it is due to countries arming themselves for armed-neutrality when the US is forced to remove it's bases during foreclosure, and not due to a world war.

[axiomata]

Interesting angle. I would think Japan and Taiwan would have a lot of interest in buying our arms should we stop being their crutch.

[Grandson of Liberty]

But other countries wouldn't feel so threatened if it weren't for US foreign policy stirring up the international pot.

Umm, there's a hibernating bear in the east they might be a bit concerned about. :cool:

[Rhys]

yeah there's no way these countries wouldn't need more military if we left. that's why RP calls it military subsidies. One little high tech tank aint gonna do it for Germany... sorry. Not when Russia could use just one tactical field nuke.

[LBT]

A Ron Paul administration would lead to decreased militarization worldwide.

I doubt any companies providing military products would be enthusiastic about Ron Paul winning the election.

[fufurios]

I'm not sure I follow this at all.

I'm Canadian, so I won't go into that area. But why for example is a country like Germany on this list? Because the U.S. has a base there?

If that is the case it is wildly inaccurate.

We've got 70,000 american soldiers in our country.

[RPsupporterAtHeart]

We've got 70,000 american soldiers in our country.

And you also have 250-280k of your own as well, backed by very good equipment. It is most definitely one of the more powerful military organizations in the world, let alone Europe. I know the economics of 70,000 troops leaving would not be a great hit for the country, but the security aspect is not right.

[UziSprayTF]

The way he put it was like this:

"If a country KNEW for sure that the US wouldn't come to their rescue if they were attacked what do you think they would do?"


The answer, at least for the short to med term, is obvious.

Assume for a second that the United States would spend 1.6% - 1.8% as opposed to 4.1% of GDP on the military (conservative 2005 est) given that Ron Paul won the
election.

Canada - 1.1% of GDP on the military would rise
Germany - 1.5% of GDP on the military would rise
Japan - 0.8% of GDP on the military would nearly double
S. Korea - 2.7% of GDP on the military would rise
Turkey - 5.3% of GDP on the military would rise slightly
Greece - 4.3% of GDP on the military would rise slightly
France - 2.6% of GDP on the military would rise
Poland - 1.7% of GDP on the military would rise greatly
Saudi Arabia - 10% of GDP on the military would rise slightly
Qatar - 10% of GDP on the military would rise slightly
Kuwait - 5.3% of GDP on the military would more than double
Malaysia - 2.0% of GDP on the military would rise
Australia - 2.4% of GDP on the military would rise greatly
Israel - 7.3% of GDP on the military would rise

That's a lot of new toys to sell around the world.

[Radiofoot]

yeah there's no way these countries wouldn't need more military if we left. that's why RP calls it military subsidies. One little high tech tank aint gonna do it for Germany... sorry. Not when Russia could use just one tactical field nuke.

So you're saying that if US troops stay, then Russia won't use tactical field nukes? If they want to, they'd use them regardless.

Which is highly unlikely anyway, because using nuclear weapons is not only likely to turn the world against them even more, but they run the risk of MAD.

Besides, Germany doesn't just have one of them tanks, and in time of conflict they could easily produce more.

[RPsupporterAtHeart]

Right now Russia is undergoing a massive countrywide re-arm project that will last the next 6-10 years. Brand new top of the world tank designs, multi-role fighters and anti-missile, anti-air nets. If Russia decides it wants to attack someone, there is really nothing the U.S. is going to do about it. In all seriousness though, what in the world would Russia have to gain nowadays by attacking Germany.

Germany, although lessened in that last decade is a powerful industrialized country that had restriction placed on it after wwii. If they need to mobilize against any threat they would have no problem doing so. High Industry, High technology and high training.

If you think for a moment Canada's % of military to GDP is going to rise because the States won't come to it's rescue, you have really underestimate things.

Canada doesn't fear invasion because there are only 4-5 countries in the world that could successfully launch one at us. 4 of them never would and the 5th is Russia. You think if Russia invaded Canada the U.S. wouldn't hit back? Anybody else that could try wouldn't even make it 100km from our shores. And in any kind of situation like that it would be protracted and the Canadian military machine would mobilize itself.

There are some countries on that list that would be severely out of luck. But in reality, they would get their materials from somewhere else if needed. Russia is the single largest distributor of military weapons in the world. China is starting to be, and the Uk will always sell for money, just as France. A country doesn't need to spend a large % of it's GDP to military if it can protect it's interests.

[ForTheRevolution]

interesting idea