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View Full Version : Are you going to switch to Libertarian after the elections, or stay Republican?




krott5333
02-03-2008, 04:01 AM
I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and I think the best bet in the long run is to stay Republican.

The libertarian ideals of freedom and liberty are mainstream views, but often people don't realize its exactly what they want until they actually hear the message. And in my opinion, the best way to get that message to the masses is through mainstream parties and changing the Republican party from the inside-out, ground-up.

Run for office. Get involved locally. Talk to your neighbors. Continue to be the spreaders of truth.

Just never forget who you are and for whom you work.

sirachman
02-03-2008, 04:06 AM
Stay Republican and take back the Republican party!

No matter where we all came from whether it be apathy, the Democratic party, the Republican party, the Constitution party, the Libertarian party, or any other we have all come together as Ron Paul Republicans and we should stay so in order to STAY UNIFIED in a fight for the good of all American citizens, a fight that will not end on election day but continue on throughout the 50 states and beyond. We have a mission to elect deserving representatives who believe as we do in the fifty states and to master campaigns of future presidents. We can do this we the children of this new R[EVOL]UTION but to do so we must not waver, we must stand together to take back the Republican party and the country!

jbuttell
02-03-2008, 04:06 AM
Respectfully, if Ron Paul doesn't get in, I'll be switching to Libertarian. I will seriously consider staying republican if Ron Paul is elected.

krott5333
02-03-2008, 04:18 AM
It would not be a bad idea for our newly-revised Republicans and Republican groups to coordinate with libertarians and libertarian groups.

sirachman
02-03-2008, 04:31 AM
It would not be a bad idea for our newly-revised Republicans and Republican groups to coordinate with libertarians and libertarian groups.
Unite them all under the banner of the revolution, we are all under the Ron Paul banner now but after the election we will still be a part of a unified revolution and hopefully we will unite as Ron Paul Republicans to elect local leaders and look ahead at future presidental elections like I said. I have nothing against voting for a libertarian thats running on the paul platform but if we all united under the same banner in a currently existing and currently damaged party we could take it completely with work and have more name recognition plus the boast that we pushed out the neocons.

krott5333
02-03-2008, 04:34 AM
Unite them all under the banner of the revolution, we are all under the Ron Paul banner now but after the election we will still be a part of a unified revolution and hopefully we will unite as Ron Paul Republicans to elect local leaders and look ahead at future presidental elections like I said. I have nothing against voting for a libertarian thats running on the paul platform but if we all united under the same banner in a currently existing and currently damaged party we could take it completely with work and have more name recognition plus the boast that we pushed out the neocons.

When many of us become prominent Republican party leaders, a public endorsement of a Libertarian candidate, while controversial, could be very powerful.

However, in the nearer future, libertarian (small l) Republicans will be far easier to elect and mobilize, because as Ron Paul has stated, freedom is popular.

libertarian4321
02-03-2008, 04:36 AM
If Ron Paul wins the nomination, I'll stay in the Republican Party.

Otherwise, screw the neocon warmongers, I'm out...

Benaiah
02-03-2008, 04:37 AM
I think that we should stay Republicans and take the party back.

krott5333
02-03-2008, 04:40 AM
I think that we should stay Republicans and take the party back.

I agree, and I don't think it will be as difficult as it sounds. Many people are leaving the party, tired of the big government lies and big government wars. The party is going to have to change, and it WILL change as it is flooded with Ron Paul Republicans. The party is not merely an intangible entity. The party is defined by its members and supporters.

Russellk30
02-03-2008, 04:42 AM
I think I'll stick with the Libertarians. The Republican Party may be salvageable, but the light at the end of the big government social tyrant warmonger tunnel of doom has yet to appear.

krott5333
02-03-2008, 04:46 AM
I think I'll stick with the Libertarians. The Republican Party may be salvageable, but the light at the end of the big government social tyrant warmonger tunnel of doom has yet to appear.

So you'll rely on people like myself to provide that light?

LibertyRevolution
02-03-2008, 04:49 AM
I think that trying to takeover the Republican party is hopeless and thats what this election is showing. They are too well rooted, to wel funded, its an impossible goal. Right now people hate Republicans, they hate bush. We are better off being an indepentant or Libertarian.

misconstrued
02-03-2008, 04:54 AM
Seeing how many in the Libertarian party have treated Paul (Reason, Cato, etc) gives me serious reservations about joining the party.

Harbinger
02-03-2008, 05:00 AM
I voted Michael Badnarik in 2004 although I was not a registered Libertarian. I do like most of the positions of the Libertarian party (essentially, libertarian [little L] positions), but I think there is still more name recognition with the Republican party. Many people will simply vote for whoever the Republican (or Democrat) candidate is and consider voting "third party" to be "throwing away their vote".

While I think that the Republican party has been seriously damaged by the neocons it may still be salvagable. You can agree with the Libertarian party platform and candidates, and even vote for them when they run, but I think the best way to make an impact will be through the Republican party.

Consider how little air time Dr. Paul gets in the main stream media. Now think of how often you have heard the Libertarian party mentioned for any reason, much less the Presidential election. As more people become aware of the issues facing our country, and the real solutions that libertarianism and fiscal conservatism / small government provide, the Libertarian party may stand a chance at increasing its profile. Until then it seems best to work on the Republican party.

dblee
02-03-2008, 05:03 AM
You can't take over a major political party in one election cycle.

It takes time. I think I'll stay republican and try to change the party from within.

At any rate, I can not agree with the libertarian stance on illegal immigration. Also, it seems like a lot of the more old guard libertarians are just as snobby and resistant to change as the old guard republicans.

Aballistar
02-03-2008, 05:04 AM
I would call myself a libertarian, but I reject the whole idea of parties on principle. I vote based on individual persons, not the party they represent. I will continue to stay an independant, but will switch to whatever party I need to each election year to vote for my guy in the primaries.

Harbinger
02-03-2008, 05:08 AM
I think that trying to takeover the Republican party is hopeless and thats what this election is showing. They are too well rooted, to wel funded, its an impossible goal. Right now people hate Republicans, they hate bush. We are better off being an indepentant or Libertarian.

Honestly, I think a huge impact has been made. The so-called "neo conservatives" hijacked the party in short order (although admittedly they were working on their socialistic platform at least as early as George Bush Sr.) and rapidly turned the party into big-government pro-welfarism out-of-control big spenders.

Ron Paul gets, on average, 10% or so of the support among Republican voters, at least per the early primaries and caucuses. The support would likely be significantly greater if people could be convinced that he were a "viable" candidate. Very few disagree with the message Dr. Paul puts out (except for those who are so deeply entrenched, personally or financially, in continuing the Iraq war).

This 10% (possibly far greater) is a wedge right in the middle of the giant crack that has been breaking up the Republican party. The neocons managed to hijack the party in less than a few years time. The momentum of this libertarian / small government / fiscal conservative / Constitutional movement has a real chance of continuing to build, driving out the neocons and socialists, and restoring the republic.

At no point in recent history has the libertarian message seen such massive support. Even Michael Badnarik, who did a great job campaigning in 2004 as the Libertarian candidate did not come close in the amount of support, both in voters and in money, as Ron Paul has running on a very similar message but as a Republican.

Russellk30
02-03-2008, 05:15 AM
So you'll rely on people like myself to provide that light?

I wont rely on you. I like the Libertarian philosophy just fine and have no problem staying and expanding that party, but if individuals like yourself are able to promote limited government from within the Republican Party, good for you.
The Republican evolution into an aggressive liberal organization was decades in the making and I don’t have the passion to reverse that trend because it started around the same time I was born.
Besides that, I think a viable third party in this country would be good for politics in general. I don’t want to choose between a turd sandwich and a giant douche, that’s just not very productive. :)

Russellk30
02-03-2008, 05:20 AM
Seeing how many in the Libertarian party have treated Paul (Reason, Cato, etc) gives me serious reservations about joining the party.

Reason and Cato (liberal libertarians/cosmo's) are not associated with the Libertarian party. The Libertarian Party has actually been more than receptive toward Ron Paul. Many potential candidates have endorsed him and the party administration has said they would like it if he sought their nomination. They have also provided party resources to help out his republican campaign.

Russellk30
02-03-2008, 05:26 AM
I would call myself a libertarian, but I reject the whole idea of parties on principle. I vote based on individual persons, not the party they represent. I will continue to stay an independant, but will switch to whatever party I need to each election year to vote for my guy in the primaries.

That is a great philosophy. I am sure it will serve you well. If everyone could be convinced to follow suit this country might actually resemble what the founder intended.

krott5333
02-03-2008, 05:32 AM
You can't take over a major political party in one election cycle.

It takes time. I think I'll stay republican and try to change the party from within.

At any rate, I can not agree with the libertarian stance on illegal immigration. Also, it seems like a lot of the more old guard libertarians are just as snobby and resistant to change as the old guard republicans.

I wouldn't mind open borders if it weren't for the entitlement-system and the leeching of social programs by illegal immigrants.

Lord Xar
02-03-2008, 05:51 AM
Stay Republican and take back the Republican party!

No matter where we all came from whether it be apathy, the Democratic party, the Republican party, the Constitution party, the Libertarian party, or any other we have all come together as Ron Paul Republicans and we should stay so in order to STAY UNIFIED in a fight for the good of all American citizens, a fight that will not end on election day but continue on throughout the 50 states and beyond. We have a mission to elect deserving representatives who believe as we do in the fifty states and to master campaigns of future presidents. We can do this we the children of this new R[EVOL]UTION but to do so we must not waver, we must stand together to take back the Republican party and the country!

hmm. I have though on this for a bit. I have been a republican for over 20 years and its not getting better - only worse. Bush and co (the neocons and their propaganda machine) have all but destroyed the Republican party. So much so, that I think what you have now is a very corrupt and ineffectual and nontrusting evil shadow of what the Republican party is.

I don't think there is any saving the Republicans. I mean, you have vote fraud in NH and a complete reluctance to "solve the issue", you have shenanigans in LA and 'that is okay" - its this whole fabric of corruption that extends beyond mere acts, but a mindset. The republicans have been completely overrun and hijacked by those who are not republicans or if they are - they 'play by the new rules' and would rather see their party ruined than admit there is something completely wrong.

Bush allowed this. His handlers allowed this.

There is nothing left. I am definetly leaving. I just don't know where.

Libertarians are okay except I am not about their immigration policy. That is a make or break thing for me - some have said they are readjusting their platfrom. But unless they do that, I can't see believing in open borders.

If they adopted the "Ron Paul" platform, then yes.. otherwise.. who is to say.

Maybe I'll just go independent. But I am for sure leaving the Republicans.

Listen, you can't take back a party that doesn't want to "go back" - they have a GREAT OPPORTUNITY RIGHT NOW! Instead, they play shenanigans and support McCain. You tell me, is that a Republican part that "wants" to go back. Not only that. The MSM has been totally co-opted to serve neither party, but their own agenda.

Unless someone instills the fear of god in those in power - then there is not recourse, imho.

aspiringconstitutionalist
02-03-2008, 05:57 AM
I was a Republican before I supported Ron Paul, and I'll be a Republican afterwards. Doesn't mean I'll vote for their candidates, but I'm going to remain involved in the Republican Party because it's MY party, and it needs to be taken back from the neocons.

the Winner is (R0N P@uL)
02-03-2008, 05:57 AM
Democrat for Life.....

Ron Paul was the exception to the rule.....

expatriot
02-03-2008, 06:13 AM
I think I'll stick with the Libertarians. The Republican Party may be salvageable, but the light at the end of the big government social tyrant warmonger tunnel of doom has yet to appear.

It's a tunnel ? - are you sure? All this time I thought it was a sewer...

Somebody ought to tell the LP to start getting their affairs ready for September 5
Just in case. :cool:

Sandy
02-03-2008, 06:25 AM
I wouldn't mind open borders if it weren't for the entitlement-system and the leeching of social programs by illegal immigrants.



Open borders is what the people who want a one world gov't love, they want a NAU so why would anyone be for this? It helps the globalists, and does not lead to freedom any more than leaving your house unlocked/open for anyone to pass through it and doing/taking what they want while passing through it does. Open borders with any criminal that could pass through and unmaneagable growth in population with American jobs being sent overseas, people being laid off, and major economic problems, no thanks!! Controlled borders with managed legal immigration will help maintain freedom, not the other way around. Protecting America is important, and I'm not going to feel 'liberal' guilt if non Americans complain. Immigration to plenty of other countries is strict and for good reason, more power to them.

A nation without borders is no nation at all. The open borders ordeal is 'progressive', not libertarian like some libertarians try to make it out to be. The LP is not perfect, and it is not just compromised Cato for example that is the problem. The LP in general also has a problem knowing when to lead and when to follow, too. Too much hyper individualism going on imo and a reason for plenty of problems.

Staying with the Rep party, it can change with focus and determination, Rome wasn't built overnight. Lots of new RP Republicans joining and even running.

familydog
02-03-2008, 06:31 AM
Originally I wanted to switch back to the Libertarian party, but the more I think about it the more I want to just stay Republican. The reason is that Ron Paul has planted the seeds of conservative ideals once again in the party. So even if he doesn't win, and we have a Hillary presidency, we win. Once Hillary starts getting us into overseas adventures like her husband and doesn't do much about getting out of Iraq, you think Hannity, Boortz, Limbaugh, etc are going to be cheerleaders for her? Paul we live to see his Republican coalition (that is unless he switches runs as third party or independent and screws all that up). I'd like to be part of that to help it succeed.

hocaltar
02-03-2008, 06:51 AM
Even if RP were elected I would still switch back to independent. My reasoning is simple. One good apple in a sack of shit isn't worth changing anything for. Don't get me wrong I sucked it up and changed my party identification in Florida so I could vote for RP; now, I am changing back.

Infact, I reccomend we do an "abandon the Repbublican Party bomb!" If 1 million people left the Republican party in one day. Talk about sending a message! Hell, they may even give RP credit.

constituent
02-03-2008, 06:56 AM
neither. i'll give assistance to others running for office regardless of party affiliation, as long as they are pro-paul platform candidates...

but otherwise i'm done w/ anything politics after this.

hillbilly
02-03-2008, 06:58 AM
I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and I think the best bet in the long run is to stay Republican.

The libertarian ideals of freedom and liberty are mainstream views, but often people don't realize its exactly what they want until they actually hear the message. And in my opinion, the best way to get that message to the masses is through mainstream parties and changing the Republican party from the inside-out, ground-up.

Run for office. Get involved locally. Talk to your neighbors. Continue to be the spreaders of truth.

Just never forget who you are and for whom you work.

Sounds good. That's exactly what I'm doing, too. I know there's others who want to go outside of the 'box' to change the system & that's great! We need to be coming at it from as many angles as they are coming at us. We need folk on the inside & on the outside; from way out on the fringe to tight-knit inner circles. The only way we have a chance is if we rip this 'box' apart from as many different directions as we can think of.

Too may elected officials have conveniently forgotten that they are supposed to be serving We the People.

constituent
02-03-2008, 07:00 AM
Open borders is what the people who want a one world gov't love, they want a NAU so why would anyone be for this? It helps the globalists, and does not lead to freedom any more than leaving your house unlocked/open for anyone to pass through it and doing/taking what they want while passing through it does.

wow, you're so very wrong.

i want open borders and i'm opposed to one world gov't/nau... in fact, i'm opposed to gov't.

uhhh... it would lead to my freedom to cross that little ditch we call the rio grande at will, w/out needing permission and w/out having to show my papers.

freedom means freedom for everyone, even those you disagree w/, that includes me and millions of others in s. texas who would just as soon see a fence on the red and natchez than the rio grande.

once again, i'm no globalist. i'm a texan!

dblee
02-03-2008, 07:04 AM
"If you want to change the system, it's easier to do so from within rather than throw bricks at it from outside."

seeker1
02-03-2008, 07:20 AM
Stay Republican and take back the Republican party!

No matter where we all came from whether it be apathy, the Democratic party, the Republican party, the Constitution party, the Libertarian party, or any other we have all come together as Ron Paul Republicans and we should stay so in order to STAY UNIFIED in a fight for the good of all American citizens, a fight that will not end on election day but continue on throughout the 50 states and beyond. We have a mission to elect deserving representatives who believe as we do in the fifty states and to master campaigns of future presidents. We can do this we the children of this new R[EVOL]UTION but to do so we must not waver, we must stand together to take back the Republican party and the country!

I am not a republicrat or a demoblican and have no intention of trying to reform a party to meet my ideals. I was an independent before and only joined the republicrats to vote for RP in the primary.

All this GOP loyalism reminds me of the original loyalists that didn't want to give up their cushy lives for the revolution.

jrich4rpaul
02-03-2008, 07:23 AM
I'm staying Republican

seeker1
02-03-2008, 07:26 AM
neither. i'll give assistance to others running for office regardless of party affiliation, as long as they are pro-paul platform candidates...

but otherwise i'm done w/ anything politics after this.

That's been my position for more than 25 years.:cool:

FreeTraveler
02-03-2008, 07:27 AM
I think that we should stay Republicans and take the party back.

+1000

I'll be registered Republican, but probably vote for Libertarian candidates in most races, unless there's an RPR running for that spot.

FreeTraveler
02-03-2008, 07:31 AM
I think that trying to takeover the Republican party is hopeless and thats what this election is showing. They are too well rooted, to wel funded, its an impossible goal. Right now people hate Republicans, they hate bush. We are better off being an indepentant or Libertarian.

No, we're not. The game is completely stacked against a third party, as Dr. Paul has explained repeatedly. (As an aside, how do we expect other people to believe him, if we don't believe him ourselves?) At the LOCAL level, the Republican party is totally demoralized, and guess WHO elects the state and national leadership of the party?

If we're REALLY interested in a revolution, we can take over the party by the 2010 elections. If most of us are Sunshine Soldiers and Summer Patriots who want to sit behind a keyboard and whine, the rest of us will have to take our country back by exercising the Second Amendment.

FreeTraveler
02-03-2008, 07:35 AM
neither. i'll give assistance to others running for office regardless of party affiliation, as long as they are pro-paul platform candidates...

but otherwise i'm done w/ anything politics after this.

Great, so until we're in a totally hopeless situation and it's time to brush off the Second Amendment, you're gonna quit?

krott5333
02-03-2008, 07:39 AM
hmm. I have though on this for a bit. I have been a republican for over 20 years and its not getting better - only worse. Bush and co (the neocons and their propaganda machine) have all but destroyed the Republican party. So much so, that I think what you have now is a very corrupt and ineffectual and nontrusting evil shadow of what the Republican party is.

I don't think there is any saving the Republicans. I mean, you have vote fraud in NH and a complete reluctance to "solve the issue", you have shenanigans in LA and 'that is okay" - its this whole fabric of corruption that extends beyond mere acts, but a mindset. The republicans have been completely overrun and hijacked by those who are not republicans or if they are - they 'play by the new rules' and would rather see their party ruined than admit there is something completely wrong.

Bush allowed this. His handlers allowed this.

There is nothing left. I am definetly leaving. I just don't know where.

Libertarians are okay except I am not about their immigration policy. That is a make or break thing for me - some have said they are readjusting their platfrom. But unless they do that, I can't see believing in open borders.

If they adopted the "Ron Paul" platform, then yes.. otherwise.. who is to say.

Maybe I'll just go independent. But I am for sure leaving the Republicans.

Listen, you can't take back a party that doesn't want to "go back" - they have a GREAT OPPORTUNITY RIGHT NOW! Instead, they play shenanigans and support McCain. You tell me, is that a Republican part that "wants" to go back. Not only that. The MSM has been totally co-opted to serve neither party, but their own agenda.

Unless someone instills the fear of god in those in power - then there is not recourse, imho.

You make some valid points, and cause me to be still somewhat undecided as to what I want to do. However, keep in mind that Ron Paul and his subsequent movement has awoken a massive network of like-minded individuals.

Where do we go from here?

FreeTraveler
02-03-2008, 07:39 AM
I am not a republicrat or a demoblican and have no intention of trying to reform a party to meet my ideals. I was an independent before and only joined the republicrats to vote for RP in the primary.

All this GOP loyalism reminds me of the original loyalists that didn't want to give up their cushy lives for the revolution.

There are only two ways to take back our country. One is to take over one of the two existing parties, the other is to exercise the Second Amendment. The revolutionaries are going to try for plan A before plan B. The loyalists are going to sit on the sidelines.

If you're not willing to take over the Republican Party, you're either satisfied with the status quo, or willing to wait 'till things get so bad it's time for the Second Amendment.

So are you the loyalist that's satisfied with things the way they are, or are you bunkering in and buying food and ammunition expecting things to fall apart? I don't see any other choices?

FreeTraveler
02-03-2008, 07:41 AM
That's been my position for more than 25 years.:cool:

Gee, that's sure worked out well for the country, hasn't it?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

krott5333
02-03-2008, 07:43 AM
wow, you're so very wrong.

i want open borders and i'm opposed to one world gov't/nau... in fact, i'm opposed to gov't.

uhhh... it would lead to my freedom to cross that little ditch we call the rio grande at will, w/out needing permission and w/out having to show my papers.

freedom means freedom for everyone, even those you disagree w/, that includes me and millions of others in s. texas who would just as soon see a fence on the red and natchez than the rio grande.

once again, i'm no globalist. i'm a texan!

This is what I'm thinking as well. How can we possibly keep illegals out without keeping ourselves in?

krott5333
02-03-2008, 07:44 AM
I am not a republicrat or a demoblican and have no intention of trying to reform a party to meet my ideals. I was an independent before and only joined the republicrats to vote for RP in the primary.

All this GOP loyalism reminds me of the original loyalists that didn't want to give up their cushy lives for the revolution.

I'm just trying to think of the best way to make long-term changes in government.

There is no loyalty to any party, simply a loyalty to one's country.

John P Slevin
02-03-2008, 07:48 AM
Seeing how many in the Libertarian party have treated Paul (Reason, Cato, etc) gives me serious reservations about joining the party.

You've got this wrong. Reason and CATO both are Republican organizations. Funders of Reason and CATO are funders of many campaigns nationwide, and most of their money goes Republican...none, to my knowledge, goes to Libertarian candidates.

As for how the LP has treated Paul, the LP gave its' presidential nomination to Paul in 1988, long before the Ron Paul Revolution. And, he ran on the same message at that time as he runs today.

The Republican Party is the war party, corrupt beyond repair. It locks insurgents out of the process through ballot access restrictions and onerous campaign finance regulations.

Sure, the Republican Party is no more corrupt than the D Party, but is that a reason to be a Republican?

BenjFranklin
02-03-2008, 07:49 AM
The day after I cast my vote for Dr. Paul in my state's Republican primary, I'm switching back to the Libertarian Party. I feel like I need a shower.

Menthol Patch
02-03-2008, 07:57 AM
The Republican Party is an abomination just like the Democratic Party. I do NOT support the Republican Party. I only support Ron Paul.

Menthol Patch
02-03-2008, 07:58 AM
The day after I cast my vote for Dr. Paul in my state's Republican primary, I'm switching back to the Libertarian Party. I feel like I need a shower.

The Libertarian Party has been taken over by big government neo-cons. The Libertarian Party is no longer principled.

seeker1
02-03-2008, 08:01 AM
Gee, that's sure worked out well for the country, hasn't it?

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

So don't blame me.

The way I see it, my stategy, which by the way was writing in Ron paul for the last six elections, seems to be paying off.

Ignorance is bliss.:cool:

Eponym_mi
02-03-2008, 08:10 AM
AFAIC, hard-core theocrats (Huckabee), corporatists (Romney), and fascists (McCain/Bush) will still have too much influence within the Republican party after this election. They may not want to vote, but they'll still be there. These interest groups represent all that is bad in the party. The Republican platform would have to move much closer toward libertarian principles and positions in order to keep me interested.

robert4rp08
02-03-2008, 08:10 AM
Ron Paul Republican, i.e., Ronpaulican for life

BenjFranklin
02-03-2008, 08:16 AM
The Libertarian Party has been taken over by big government neo-cons. The Libertarian Party is no longer principled.

I read their platform and postions and find them to be very principled. I can find very few ideas that can even remotely be considered neo-con. As a matter of fact, they were practically begging Ron Paul to seek their nomination. As to who is actually running the party I have no idea about that, but they can't be all bad if they want Dr. Paul at the top of their ticket.

haigh
02-03-2008, 08:17 AM
Be Together.
Be Nimble.
Don't play the ball till it lands.

seeker1
02-03-2008, 08:19 AM
There are only two ways to take back our country. One is to take over one of the two existing parties, the other is to exercise the Second Amendment. The revolutionaries are going to try for plan A before plan B. The loyalists are going to sit on the sidelines.

If you're not willing to take over the Republican Party, you're either satisfied with the status quo, or willing to wait 'till things get so bad it's time for the Second Amendment.

So are you the loyalist that's satisfied with things the way they are, or are you bunkering in and buying food and ammunition expecting things to fall apart? I don't see any other choices?

What is your fascination with the Republican party? As though it is different from the democrat party?

They are the same thing and conttrolled by the money interests in this country.

There is no saving it or taking it over. You're dreaming if you think you can.

We are the revolution. Ron Paul supporters.

Funny, I don't see the Republican or Democratic Parties in the Constitution only "We the People" from the Declaration of Independence.


There's more at stake here than your second amendment rights.:cool:
-------------------------------------------------------
"If the liberties of America are ever compleatly ruined, of which in my opinion there is now the utmost danger, it will in all probability be the consequence of a mistaken notion of prudence, which leads men to acquiesce in measures of the most destructive tendency for the sake of present ease.

When designs are form'd to rase the very foundation of a free government, those few who are to erect their grandeur and fortunes upon the general ruin, will employ every art to sooth the devoted people into a state of indolence, inattention and security, which is forever the fore-runner of slavery--

They are alarmed at nothing so much, as attempts to awaken the people to jealousy and watchfulness; and it has been an old game played over and over again, to hold up the men who would rouse their fellow citizens and countrymen to a sense of their real danger, and spirit them to the most zealous activity in the use of all proper means for the preservation of the public liberty, as 'pretended patriots,' 'intemperate politicians,' rash, hotheaded men, Incendiaries, wretched desperadoes, who, as was said of the best of men, would turn the world upside down, or have done it already."
---Samuel Adams

homah
02-03-2008, 08:19 AM
I'm going to stay Republican for now in case I need to vote for any Ron Paul Republicans at the local level.

virginiakid
02-03-2008, 08:20 AM
I'll stay independent for the most part. But will begin a crusade in my county/city to take it back over. Then will take the republican party over through the state.

FreeTraveler
02-03-2008, 08:20 AM
AFAIC, hard-core theocrats (Huckabee), corporatists (Romney), and fascists (McCain/Bush) will still have too much influence within the Republican party after this election. They may not want to vote, but they'll still be there. These interest groups represent all that is bad in the party. The Republican platform would have to move much closer toward libertarian principles and positions in order to keep me interested.

Have you been to the Republican Executive Committee meeting in your county? The old ways are getting the national press, but it's not unusual now to see 40% or more of the ACTIVE local members are Ron Paul Republicans. THIS is how we take over, by being active at the Grassroots, and taking over the party from the bottom up.

Ignore the national media, they're months behind what's actually happening on the ground.

AlexMerced
02-03-2008, 08:21 AM
I like the Libertarian and Constitution parties, but again, that's like preaching to the choir.

The Point, at least to me is to wins the hearts and minds. The easiest ones to convert first are those in the Republican party. Honestly some of us should even attempt to join the democrats and begin shaking up their ranks.

It's about winning from withoin, people are colectivist and will be more willing to change their ideas if they don't have to change their labels.

Lucille
02-03-2008, 08:23 AM
Ron stays in the Republican party because he knows third parties are not viable and he can get more done from the inside. And also, because he is a Republican. It's the party that went astray.

This is one purpose of the Revolution. To force change from within. If people just abandon the fight after this one election, what good will it have done? There is certainly more opportunity to do that now than there was before Paul's candidacy, with the enthusiasm of the grassroots. Remember what those kids said to Frank? "We are the Republican Party!" It's true.

I will stay a Republican (as I've been for decades). I will continue to write my Congressmen and Senators and urge them to take libertarian stances on policy, and support libertarian-minded politicians on the local and state level. "All politics are local."

The success of Paul's campaign is because of his message, and the grassroots' enthusiasm for it. It has created an environment where politicians like Flake, Sanford, Barr and Johnson can all benefit from it in the coming years. More will run, and it's essential the grassroots support those candidacies.

Paul's Manifesto is coming out soon. I'm sure it will contain good advice on how to continue the Revolution and initiate change from within. He will also continue to pick up support after the election, through speaking engagements, books, interviews, etc.

This thing is really just getting started.

(And anyone who pledges to go back to the Democrat Party to support their Socialist platform, has a fundamental misunderstanding of both Dr. Paul's message and the Constitution. )

Menthol Patch
02-03-2008, 08:28 AM
I read their platform and postions and find them to be very principled. I can find very few ideas that can even remotely be considered neo-con. As a matter of fact, they were practically begging Ron Paul to seek their nomination. As to who is actually running the party I have no idea about that, but they can't be all bad if they want Dr. Paul at the top of their ticket.

They are pathetic. Do some research about what happened in the LP recently. The LP has been watering down it's message for the past couple of years. A bunch of neo-cons from the Republican Party has taken control of the LP.

DAFTEK
02-03-2008, 08:28 AM
If Ron Paul is not elected i will tell the Republican party to go Fuk them selfs and register Independent! Democrats can kiss my ass too. If McWar is unstoppable and Ron drops out i will push and vote for Hillary and email every media and newspaper agency and state why i did it. Hopefully this will get to the GOP why they lost so many people.

That lizard neck gerbil cheek robocop body warmonger lunatic belongs back in the hole they dragged him out of!

Menthol Patch
02-03-2008, 08:29 AM
I used to be a Libertarian. Now I am a Libertarian, but not a member of the Libertarian Party.

seeker1
02-03-2008, 08:37 AM
Ron stays in the Republican party because he knows third parties are not viable and he can get more done from the inside. And also, because he is a Republican. It's the party that went astray.

This is one purpose of the Revolution. To force change from within. If people just abandon the fight after this one election, what good will it have done?

I just want you to show me the influence on the Republican Party Ron Paul has had.

Show me the coalitions. Show me the bills passed. Show me anything that resembles that he has been a force to change the Republican Party.

Look at the way the GOP treats one of its own.

It's a fantasy.

Ron Paul supports the Constitution. He is a lone voice in the wilderness. While Ron Paul may be a Republican, he is the only Constitutionalist running and that is why I support him.

There is no changing the Republicrat Party.

Eponym_mi
02-03-2008, 08:38 AM
Have you been to the Republican Executive Committee meeting in your county?

Yeah...they think we're a cult. Seriously, little has changed....look at the polls! Theocrats, corporatists, and facsists are well represented. Any movement toward libertarian principles will be very temporary (this election cycle only). These groups will only give lip service to keep people like me/us from voting for anyone else other than the Republican they choose.

Lucille
02-03-2008, 08:40 AM
I just want you to show me the influence on the Republican Party Ron Paul has had.

Show me the coalitions. Show me the bills passed. Show me anything that resembles that he has been a force to change the Republican Party.

Look at the way the GOP treats one of its own.

It's a fantasy.

Ron Paul supports the Constitution. He is a lone voice in the wilderness. While Ron Paul may be a Republican, he is the only Constitutionalist running and that is why I support him.

There is no changing the Republicrat Party.

No one said it was going to happen over night, or that it would be easy.

Paul hasn't given up. Why do you want to?

seeker1
02-03-2008, 08:41 AM
Yeah...they think we're a cult. Seriously, little has changed....look at the polls! Theocrats, corporatists, and facsists are well represented. Any movement toward libertarian principles will be very temporary (this election cycle only). These groups will only give lip service to keep people like me/us from voting for anyone else other than the Republican they choose.

That's the truth of this situation, not the fairy tale version.

Thanks for posting this.:cool:

raystone
02-03-2008, 08:44 AM
we are already gaining back the Republican party....in our county GOP party, a senior long time GOP party leader became a Ron Paul fan, sees he is the only real Republican. And, of course, he's getting a lot of company from local RP fans new to the county GOP, and the other young members. The county GOP straw poll was one of hundreds across the country where he took 1st or 2nd.

the GOP is weak and fallible, the limited government/low taxes base is still there. They just need to be persuaded we shouldn't use moral authority as a basis for interventionism

seeker1
02-03-2008, 08:46 AM
No one said it was going to happen over night, or that it would be easy.

Paul hasn't given up. Why do you want to?

You mean on the Republicrat party?

I didn't sign on to support the party. I am supporting the man and his principles. Like I have for the last six elections. At no time did Ron Paul suggest I become a Republicrat. He simply says what his platform is, used to be the Republican platform, but that it isn't anymore.

I support the man, the movement, but not the party.:cool:

John P Slevin
02-03-2008, 08:47 AM
No, we're not. The game is completely stacked against a third party, as Dr. Paul has explained repeatedly. (As an aside, how do we expect other people to believe him, if we don't believe him ourselves?) At the LOCAL level, the Republican party is totally demoralized, and guess WHO elects the state and national leadership of the party?

If we're REALLY interested in a revolution, we can take over the party by the 2010 elections. If most of us are Sunshine Soldiers and Summer Patriots who want to sit behind a keyboard and whine, the rest of us will have to take our country back by exercising the Second Amendment.

And Dr. Paul's logic bears close examination.

Since Republicans and Democrats make all those ballot access and campaign finance laws which restrict the rights of Americans who opt to be active in third parties, Dr. Paul suggests sticking with the corrupt people to make things better because you can't do it as an honest outsider.

There is no defense of Dr. Paul's repeated statements that since the deck is stacked against third parties one shouldn't bother with 'em. There is a great deal to question about anyone thinking they can reform the Republican Party. Ask Dr. Paul how much success he's had in over 30 years trying to bring about smaller, less intrusive government and in reforming the Republican Party from within...the correct answer is ZERO.

Lucille
02-03-2008, 08:51 AM
That's the truth of this situation, not the fairy tale version.

Thanks for posting this.:cool:

Negative and self-defeating much?

Just get out now if the only option you see after the election is to go to the corner and suck on your binky and cry.

I would never abandon the movement. NEVER. It's just getting started.

Maybe the establishment was right about the bulk of Ron's supporters. A bunch of liberals, and not in the classic sense.

seeker1
02-03-2008, 08:55 AM
Negative and self-defeating much?

Just get out now if the only option you see after the election is to go to the corner and suck on your binky and cry.

I would never abandon the movement. NEVER. It's just getting started.

Maybe the establishment was right about the bulk of Ron's supporters. A bunch of liberals, and not in the classic sense.

if you're trying to prove my point.

You can't reason. So you resort to name calling. You'll go far as a republicrat loyalist.

Thanks for the conversation, but I'll be moving on now. Good luck with your recruiting.:cool:

John P Slevin
02-03-2008, 08:57 AM
Negative and self-defeating much?

Just get out now if the only option you see after the election is to go to the corner and suck on your binky and cry.

I would never abandon the movement. NEVER. It's just getting started.

Maybe the establishment was right about the bulk of Ron's supporters. A bunch of liberals, and not in the classic sense.

This movement is NOT just getting started. Ron Paul has brought alot of new people into a movement which has been going for decades.

It is mistaken to think the thing just started as it is mistaken to think any one of us should adopt the Republican Party just because Ron Paul happens to be one...

What's needed very definitely is for energetic, motivated supporters to encourage Ron Paul to continue the fight, outside the Republican Party if necessary.

Don't tarry, just keep on fighting...and supporters must also advise him not to spend any more time with crooks, liars and thieves...sure, he's still in congress, where thieves are thick, but why ask for more of the same by sticking with the irredeemably corrupt Republican Party?

Lucille
02-03-2008, 09:05 AM
we are already gaining back the Republican party....in our county GOP party, a senior long time GOP party leader became a Ron Paul fan, sees he is the only real Republican. And, of course, he's getting a lot of company from local RP fans new to the county GOP, and the other young members. The county GOP straw poll was one of hundreds across the country where he took 1st or 2nd.

the GOP is weak and fallible, the limited government/low taxes base is still there. They just need to be persuaded we shouldn't use moral authority as a basis for interventionism

Well said.

There is no way "National Greatness Conservatism" can remain viable. First, they cannot afford it. Second, they're not much different than the Democrats. (When you get right down to it, they're JFK Democrats.)

We need to reach out to the defcons, and convince them that a strong defense is far more effective than a weak offense. The Bush Doctrine is a losing battle.

We need to reach out to the socons, and convince them that big-government is not the way to help people, because big-government only makes things worse.

We need to reach out to the ficons (libertarian and business factions) of the party, that has been leaving the Republican party since 2000, and draw them back into the fold.

We need to reach out to all the new Republican voters, both young and old, that Paul has garnered, and convince them to stick with us.

We need to work together, not scatter and give up.

Ron Paul is the Barry Goldwater of our time. Do not abandon the movement. Stay in the Republican Party, where Paul is. It's your party, too. It's time to take it back.

Lucille
02-03-2008, 09:11 AM
if you're trying to prove my point.

You can't reason. So you resort to name calling. You'll go far as a republicrat loyalist.

Thanks for the conversation, but I'll be moving on now. Good luck with your recruiting.:cool:

I offered you plenty of reason. Third parties aren't viable, change the party from within, don't give up.

WWRPD? Quit?

Eponym_mi
02-03-2008, 09:11 AM
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/Eponym_mi/RPvsNeocons.jpg

This is my take on where RP supporters probably fall vs neocon republicans. The neocons are red, have control of the Republican party...and they're not going to change.

John P Slevin
02-03-2008, 09:17 AM
Ron stays in the Republican party because he knows third parties are not viable and he can get more done from the inside.

Now, quick, name ONE thing Ron Paul has got done in the Republican Party...quick now, JUST ONE THING.

Lucille
02-03-2008, 09:20 AM
The Goldwater Republicans didn't abandon the Republican party those many years ago like so many here want to. All the defeatists around here are depressing.

Maybe you'll come around after you've read Paul's new book.


The Revolution: A Manifesto
Book Description

This much is true: you have been lied to, robbed and used by your own government-the people you elected into office and the people you should be able to trust...


In a nation thirsty for change, THE REVOLUTION is Ron Paul's call to arms. Moving from topic to topic at a quick pace, whittling everything down to its bare essentials, Paul tackles everything facing us today: the false choices in American politics, foreign policy as it was laid out by the founding fathers, how we can achieve economic freedom, how we should view abortion, civil liberties and personal responsibility, and what role the government is supposed to play in our lives.

As Barry Goldwater defined conservatism in the 60s, Ron Paul redefines it for the 21st century with THE REVOLUTION.

John P Slevin
02-03-2008, 09:25 AM
The Goldwater Republicans didn't abandon the Republican party those many years ago like so many here want to. All the defeatists around here are depressing.

Maybe you'll come around after you've read Paul's new book.

No they didn't abandon the Republican Party. First, after the '64 defeat of Goldwater, the Goldwater loyalists were purged from the Republican Party.

Some slunk back, others helped to found the modern Libertarian Party.

Those who slunk back into the Republican Party got to see Ronald Reagan elected president, as their standard bearer.

Then, he proceeded to outspend all other administrations in the history of this nation COMBINED. Ronald Reagan, heir to the Goldwater Revolution, spent more than all other administrations COMBINED.

seeker1
02-03-2008, 09:27 AM
No they didn't abandon the Republican Party. First, after the '64 defeat of Goldwater, the Goldwater loyalists were purged from the Republican Party.

Some slunk back, others helped to found the modern Libertarian Party.

Those who slunk back into the Republican Party got to see Ronald Reagan elected president, as their standard bearer.

Then, he proceeded to outspend all other administrations in the history of this nation COMBINED. Ronald Reagan, heir to the Goldwater Revolution, spent more than all other administrations COMBINED.

Facts are stubborn things.:D

John P Slevin
02-03-2008, 09:34 AM
Facts are stubborn things.:D

Facts are stubborn, let's hope facts are more stubborn than those who seek to hold up the Republican Party as an example of something good, decent, or as retaining even a shred of morality.

Lucille
02-03-2008, 09:40 AM
No they didn't abandon the Republican Party. First, after the '64 defeat of Goldwater, the Goldwater loyalists were purged from the Republican Party.

Some slunk back, others helped to found the modern Libertarian Party.

Those who slunk back into the Republican Party got to see Ronald Reagan elected president, as their standard bearer.

Then, he proceeded to outspend all other administrations in the history of this nation COMBINED. Ronald Reagan, heir to the Goldwater Revolution, spent more than all other administrations COMBINED.

Yes, I know. I know all about Barry, Reagan and GHWB and the history of the neocons, and why the Libertarian party was formed. I've probably been voting longer than you've been alive.

You are all free to do what you want to.

I, for one, will not be FORCED out of the Party, which is exactly what the Neocons want. I will stay in the party where Paul is and fight and where I have a chance to initiate change, locally, statewide, and nationally. Like Paul.

Do what you want. Go third party, and let the Neocons have the party. Have fun getting .05% of the vote.

Like I said, maybe you'll come around once you've read the book. I'm done here because as I said, all this defeatism is depressing.

I leave you with this:

"We are the Republican Party!"

Ira Aten
02-03-2008, 09:44 AM
Quote: Respectfully, if Ron Paul doesn't get in, I'll be switching to Libertarian. I will seriously consider staying republican if Ron Paul is elected.


Wish you would reconsider, and here is why. You staying in the party, is the Neocon's worst nightmare.

We are a REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC structured by the Constitution, thus the reason the party was named Republican. The party needs to be repaired. The Libertarian party platform, is simply the original foundation of the Republican Party.

We need to re-take the Party. We need to persuade folks like Guliani, Rick Perry (the Trans Texas Corridor/Bildergerg Group Boy) that they have no future with the party, and create thousands of Ron Pauls. All it takes is to read the Constitution, study it, and then promise (oath of office) to govern "...in pursuance of" that document, and we can repair (and retain) America as a soveriegn nation.

The mindset of the current Neocons in the party of "...Oh, we can't maintain the initiatives our party was founded upon because everyone hates "partisans" so we will accept something close" is simply a mind game being played on America, in order to allow a core group of Bilderbergers to control our nation, and eventually create a one world government, with guess who running it.

Please resolve to change the party, as this is the closest we've ever come. The Ron Paul candidacy isn't about winning the nomination. It's about changing the party into thousands of Ron Pauls, and controlling the party to get our country back from the police state we are currently handing our freedom over to.
To

Lucille
02-03-2008, 09:44 AM
Wish you would reconsider, and here is why. You staying in the party, is the Neocon's worst nightmare.

We are a REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC structured by the Constitution, thus the reason the party was named Republican. The party needs to be repaired. The Libertarian party platform, is simply the original foundation of the Republican Party.

We need to re-take the Party. We need to persuade folks like Guliani, Rick Perry (the Trans Texas Corridor/Bildergerg Group Boy) that they have no future with the party, and create thousands of Ron Pauls. All it takes is to read the Constitution, study it, and then promise (oath of office) to govern "...in pursuance of" that document, and we can repair (and retain) America as a soveriegn nation.

The mindset of the current Neocons in the party of "...Oh, we can't maintain the initiatives our party was founded upon because everyone hates "partisans" so we will accept something close" is simply a mind game being played on America, in order to allow a core group of Bilderbergers to control our nation, and eventually create a one world government, with guess who running it.

Please resolve to change the party, as this is the closest we've ever come. The Ron Paul candidacy isn't about winning the nomination. It's about changing the party into thousands of Ron Pauls, and controlling the party to get our country back from the police state we are currently handing our freedom over to.
To

QFT!

John P Slevin
02-03-2008, 09:51 AM
Yes, I know. I know all about Barry, Reagan and GHWB and the history of the neocons, and why the Libertarian party was formed. I've probably been voting longer than you've been alive.

You are all free to do what you want to.

I, for one, will not be FORCED out of the Party, which is exactly what the Neocons want. I will stay in the party where Paul is and fight and where I have a chance to initiate change, locally, statewide, and nationally. Like Paul.

Do what you want. Go third party, and let the Neocons have the party. Have fun getting .05% of the vote.

Like I said, maybe you'll come around once you've read the book. I'm done here because as I said, all this defeatism is depressing.

I leave you with this:

"We are the Republican Party!"

The neocons already have a majority of the vote in enough elections to continually elect presidents and members of congress, control governorships and statehouses. They are not trying to force you out. They are counting on you feeling you better stick in there with them because you must win your elections. What bleepin nonsense.

And I'm 50 years old, so I don't think you've been at it for longer than I've been alive. If you have, you've been witnessing the Republican corruption the entire time. When are you going to learn that it is hopeless?

That is what you want to continue doing, sure, stick with it if it makes you happy because you get more votes...me, I'd rather support honest candidates and if I'm to be a member of any party, it's an honest party for me.

JGalt
02-03-2008, 09:53 AM
if RP doesn't win the Republican nomination I'm going Libertarian and writing him in for the general election, and I'm writing in Rand for Senator since nobody's running against Mitch McConnell again, and I know Rand is technically eligible.

seeker1
02-03-2008, 09:59 AM
I've probably been voting longer than you've been alive.


So, did you vote for Taft or Eisenhower in the primary? :D

Glad to see seniors using the web.

Truth-Bringer
02-03-2008, 10:22 AM
I've been thinking about this for awhile now, and I think the best bet in the long run is to stay Republican.

The libertarian ideals of freedom and liberty are mainstream views, but often people don't realize its exactly what they want until they actually hear the message. And in my opinion, the best way to get that message to the masses is through mainstream parties and changing the Republican party from the inside-out, ground-up.

Run for office. Get involved locally. Talk to your neighbors. Continue to be the spreaders of truth.

Just never forget who you are and for whom you work.

As far as working within the Party - yes, you should keep trying to transform the Republican Party.

BUT EVERYONE HERE ALSO NEEDS TO START DONATING MONEY TO LIBERTARIAN/CONSTITUTIONAL POLITICAL GROUPS SUCH AS:

http://www.theadvocates.org (with a nice picture of Dr. Paul on the front page)

http://www.lewrockwell.com

http://www.fff.org ("Outstanding Freedom Website" - Congressman Ron Paul's Liberty in Media Awards)

http://www.antiwar.com

http://www.isil.org

http://www.gunowners.org ("The only no-compromise gun lobby in Washington."
-Rep. Ron Paul)

http://www.norml.org

http://www.drugpolicy.org

And here's a longer list of links: http://www.liberty-tree.org/ltn/LibertyLinks.html


And if the Republicans run a statist for office - send them a message that you won't support such a candidate and vote Libertarian or Constitution Party in the general election. THAT will send a message.

Do not contribute to any of the Republican general funds - since they keep breaking their promises to support smaller government. If a candidate is worthy, such as Ron Paul, then only send them money directly.

pcosmar
02-03-2008, 10:29 AM
I am an Independent and will remain an Independent.
I have never been a member of any party.
however if the Republican party does not nominate, and continues their present tactics, I will consider them my enemy. I will do all in my power to undermine them.

Lucille
02-03-2008, 10:45 AM
So, did you vote for Taft or Eisenhower in the primary? :D

Glad to see seniors using the web. :D

You can wipe that smug grin off your face any time, McRomney.

I hope and pray your pessimism and complacency, and your horrible advice to leave the party, does not infect the young people who have registered as Republicans and joined in this fight.

You can only change it from within.

Eponym_mi
02-03-2008, 11:03 AM
You can only change it from within.

Why bother? You're tilting at windmills. You're suggesting that we're going to change the people in control of the party, which I believe is unlikely.

The only advantage to what you're suggesting is that it overcomes the inherent bias that is present against any group that is not part of the Republican or Democratic establishment.

I don't WANT to be a part of either of these parties. There are too many people within in them that oppose my views. They're both disgusting to me. I don't see how all the bias in our political system toward a 2 party system has not been ruled unconstitutional.

seeker1
02-03-2008, 11:04 AM
You can wipe that smug grin off your face any time, McRomney.

I hope and pray your pessimism and complacency, and your horrible advice to leave the party, does not infect the young people who have registered as Republicans and joined in this fight.

You can only change it from within.

Aren't they the Republicrats running in this race? The Party Favorites? You are really funny. :D <---smugly grinning

So did you vote for Taft or Eisenhower? Or were you just trying to claim some high ground with your age? I take it you're not 77?

Pessimism? For what? A corrupt two party system and the party loyalists that keep fomenting their devotion?

Complacency? Do you mean my being self-satisfied that I am unwilling to bow down at the Republicrat alter and swear my allegiance?

I hope the young people that registered to vote for Ron Paul will continue to uphold the values of the Constitution and vote their conscience and not feel obligated to support a candidate because of fear that their "party" will lose an election.

I appreciate your prayers.

Oh and by the way, you never did answer the question showing where Ron Paul has accomplished any change in the Republicrat party. Because you can't.

Well, I have way better things to do, so adios. :cool:

Original_Intent
02-03-2008, 11:18 AM
In my opinion it would be easier to retake the GOP from within (just like the neocons took it in the first place) than to build a third party up to being a real threat.

I think the critical thing is that whatever we do we try to stay consolidated. The worst outcome would be if we all went our separate ways and some went back to the CP, some back to the LP, some back to Dem, some stay in the GOP, and some go back to being uninvolved in politics.

If we stick together we are going to win this, but if we all go our separate ways and our coalition breaks apart, then we are back to square 0.

Eponym_mi
02-03-2008, 11:25 AM
In my opinion it would be easier to retake the GOP from within (just like the neocons took it in the first place) than to build a third party up to being a real threat.

I would only consider this a temporary solution. The endgame should be permanent elimination of the biased 2 party system. Otherwise, we'll be fighting the same battle again whenever some other bozos come along to take over the party.

Truth-Bringer
02-03-2008, 12:50 PM
In my opinion it would be easier to retake the GOP from within (just like the neocons took it in the first place) than to build a third party up to being a real threat.

I still think the best strategy is to fight Neocons and Collectivist Statists in the GOP on two fronts. Continue to be a member and try to influence people within the party, but donate money to the Libertarian Party and Libertarian political groups and vote for their candidates if the GOP nominates Neocons or Statists.



I think the critical thing is that whatever we do we try to stay consolidated.

That we should definitely do - but we can be consolidated in different projects. It doesn't all have to be about the Republican Party.

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
02-03-2008, 01:36 PM
Seeing how many in the Libertarian party have treated Paul (Reason, Cato, etc) gives me serious reservations about joining the party.

One great thing about this campaign is that it has undoubtedly exposed certain individuals and groups as not being what they've always said they were.



As for how the LP has treated Paul, the LP gave its' presidential nomination to Paul in 1988, long before the Ron Paul Revolution. And, he ran on the same message at that time as he runs today.

I think they also pretty much offered up their ballot access to him as their presidential nominee for this year too.


The Goldwater Republicans didn't abandon the Republican party those many years ago like so many here want to. All the defeatists around here are depressing.

I know at least a few who voted for Harry Browne.

This is likely the best and last chance we have to change things. What do you guys think things will look like after 4 years of McCain, Obama, or Hillary? If I'm lucky, I'll be in a shack somewhere shooting my own food. The alternative might be starving to death.

Russellk30
02-03-2008, 01:49 PM
It's a tunnel ? - are you sure? All this time I thought it was a sewer...

Somebody ought to tell the LP to start getting their affairs ready for September 5
Just in case. :cool:

Its actually a tunnel of doom. I think I would rather be stuck in a sewer. :D

Russellk30
02-03-2008, 02:16 PM
Yeah...they think we're a cult. Seriously, little has changed....look at the polls! Theocrats, corporatists, and facsists are well represented. Any movement toward libertarian principles will be very temporary (this election cycle only). These groups will only give lip service to keep people like me/us from voting for anyone else other than the Republican they choose.

Good point. Lets not forget that Reagan used rhetoric with a heavy libertarian tilt, but his policies were horrible. The Republican Party will move in the direction of Libertarianism only enough to get us to bite. It seems there is a back and forth cycle of the rhetoric over there years, but name one year that the size of government was actually reduced. The last three Republicans presidents were all elected to reduce the size of government at look where that got us. Why should we hope that the future holds anything different? Neocons and the religious right are numerous and not going anywhere. They had decades. They failed. Good riddance.

Russellk30
02-03-2008, 02:32 PM
You can wipe that smug grin off your face any time, McRomney.

I hope and pray your pessimism and complacency, and your horrible advice to leave the party, does not infect the young people who have registered as Republicans and joined in this fight.

You can only change it from within.

Calm down, he was just joking. He is not insulting you and his ideas are not an "infection." You are much too loyal to the Republican Party. Over the last half a century how many years did they manage to reduce the size of government? What exactly are you trying to save? Both parties are big government and you are hoping to change decades of just that. Good luck, but don’t insult people that have different views than your own especially when aversion to the Republican Party is a completely reasonable response to the countries current ills.

The Republican Party has some admirable philosophical roots, but so does the Democrat Party. Both are currently pushing big government. Change it if you can, but don’t be surprised or offended if every Ron Paul supporter doesn’t follow suit.

I consider myself Libertarian and until that party starts advocating big government, I will stay. I hope you are successful injected libertarian ideals into the Republican Party.

Crowish
02-03-2008, 02:43 PM
I'm going Libertarian. The 2 party system has caused a lot of problems.

literatim
02-03-2008, 03:03 PM
I wouldn't waste money on the Libertarian Party. They only care about the party and not about the overall picture. The Constitution Party puts the country above party affiliation.


I'm going Libertarian. The 2 party system has caused a lot of problems.

All 3rd parties have stagnated because there are laws that actively work against them. Joining the Libertarian Party will do nothing but hurt any hope of getting 3rd parties on equal ground.

hillbilly
02-03-2008, 03:07 PM
You can wipe that smug grin off your face any time, McRomney.

I hope and pray your pessimism and complacency, and your horrible advice to leave the party, does not infect the young people who have registered as Republicans and joined in this fight.

You can only change it from within.


But you see.... it's not only from within that change can happen.

The collective "they" (the dems & reps that make up the majority of our congress & of course the 'elite') are coming at us from so many angles, not just from within is gonna work anymore. We need to all kiss & make up & realize that we need to tear this box apart from ALL SIDES! From within & without, accepting the unique different areas that each of us are uniquely suited. Some of us work it better from within (like me & you) & some work it better from without. and that's ok.

That being said, I have to say that as long as the people I've seen posting here really do change their voter registration back to Ind or Una or Lib or Con or whatever.... it does make it harder for those of us who are actively trying to make a difference from within.

For those who aren't quite sure:

From Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary (1931):
• Republic: 1. A common wealth; a state in which the exercise of the sovereign power is lodged in representatives elected by the people. In modern usage, it differs from a democracy of democratic state, in which the people exercise the powers of sovereignty directly. 2. Common interests: the public.

• Conservative: Conservative (a) 1. Preservative; having power to preserve in a safe or entire state, or from loss or injury or waste. 2. Respecting old institutions, methods, customs, and the like; adhering to what is old or established; not given to change merely for the sake of change; said of persons and their principles; as, a conservative physician. 3. Within safe bounds; moderate; as, a conservative estimate; also, adhering to sound principles; believed to involve little risk; not speculative; as, a conservative investment; a conservative step in opposition.(n) 1. A person or thing tending to preserve from ruin or injury; a conserver. 2. One who aims to preserve from innovation or radical change; one who wishes to maintain an institution or form of government.

The above definition is why I am a Republican & why I will stay one. The Republicans of today are not representative of that definition & I am to change my lil corner as best I possibly can.

But change needs to happen all the way around, not just the Rep party.

hillbilly
02-03-2008, 03:09 PM
Oh yes, and Lucille--- I find this defeatism quite depressing myself, too.

AggieforPaul
02-03-2008, 03:13 PM
Stay Republican. There will be future Ron Paul Republians. Anybody with the resume and the money would be stupid not to try given Ron Paul's unprecedented fund raising success.

Russellk30
02-03-2008, 03:41 PM
Oh yes, and Lucille--- I find this defeatism quite depressing myself, too.

I fail to see how it is defeatist to not give the Republican Party a chance. I was never a Republican. My family members were never Republican. I am not giving up on anything. If anything, you see that only yourselves have been defeated because so many are giving up on the party. I am sorry. I hope things get better for you, but don’t make people feel guilty for not participating in a failed institution.

There have been many freedom movements within the Republican Party in the past, but all have failed. The core of the party will not accept libertarian principles anytime soon. You are unwilling to accept the arguments presented and wont respond in any meaningful manner beyond more persuasion and stating that you are “depressed.”

Sorry you are depressed, but I have never been so optimistic. This movement will go on with or without the Republican Party. They can help themselves and accept libertarian positions or they can ignore us and watch their base continue to shrink. Either way, no tear shall be shed from my eyes.

If you don’t want to give up on “Your" party, fine, but don’t insult the intelligence of those that do not want anything to do with an organization that has been either corrupt or inept for decades while actively suppressing civil liberties here at home and spreading fear and mistrust throughout the world.

wortguy
02-03-2008, 03:43 PM
Constitution Party for me, although I am all for the new Ron Paul Republicans taking over the party, but we will wait and see how that goes.

Russellk30
02-03-2008, 03:44 PM
Hillbilly

"Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our servant, not our master!"- Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson founded the Democratic Party. If you knew that you would also know that strict party affiliation and loyalty is a political flaw.

JeffSchulman
02-03-2008, 03:54 PM
I'm gonna do what Ron did, that is, become a lifetime national LP party member and stay registered Republican.

Goldwater Conservative
02-03-2008, 04:54 PM
The only reason we even have to have this discussion is because our voting laws make it impossible to express a preference other "this is my guy, I give a thumbs down equally to all the others." Reform that so you can rate, rank, or approve/disapprove candidates, and there will be no reason to stay with the GOP.

mhipshir
02-03-2008, 04:56 PM
Yes, of course. I've voted Libertarian since 1984. (I'm changing parties to vote for Ron Paul this primary.)

Immortal Technique
02-03-2008, 05:04 PM
http://www.constitutionparty.com/

Richandler
02-03-2008, 05:10 PM
If you register Libertarian it's completely useless. Libertarians will never win. Ever. The 2 party system is fine, it's just a matter of getting ethical individuals to run. I voted for a couple Libertarians last time and I realized I wasted my vote and would have been just as good not to vote at all.

Bradley in DC
02-03-2008, 05:13 PM
I for one will likely follow Dr. Paul's lead. That said, the LP is not recognized in DC so there is no benefit of leaving the Republican Party for me in that sense. One could be a registered Republican in DC AND simultaneously a paid up member of the LP (as I was for a time many years ago).

Goldwater Conservative
02-03-2008, 05:15 PM
I voted for a couple Libertarians last time and I realized I wasted my vote and would have been just as good not to vote at all.

1 = 0 ?

Quirkydude
02-03-2008, 05:22 PM
Under no circumstances will I vote for McCain. I am waivering on whether or not I would cast a vote for Romney. Romney said that Ron Paul "deserves to be laughed at". ...so no, I wouldn't vote for him either.

Number19
02-03-2008, 05:29 PM
Have you been to the Republican Executive Committee meeting in your county? The old ways are getting the national press, but it's not unusual now to see 40% or more of the ACTIVE local members are Ron Paul Republicans. THIS is how we take over, by being active at the Grassroots, and taking over the party from the bottom up...Listen to this patriot. This is the only way it will ever happen.

Eponym_mi
02-03-2008, 05:30 PM
The 2 party system is fine, it's just a matter of getting ethical individuals to run.

No, it sucks. Freedom loving people get lumped in with and trampled over by statists, which compromises everyone's position on a variety of issues. The two party system promotes mob rule and completely ignores minority views.

Moreover, the two party system is the antithesis of freedom. Why should anyone be limited to only two choices?

Number19
02-03-2008, 05:33 PM
Ron stays in the Republican party because he knows third parties are not viable...I don't know how widely it is known, but RP maintains his Lifetime membership in the Libertarian Party.

Eponym_mi
02-03-2008, 05:33 PM
Listen to this patriot. This is the only way it will ever happen.

Spare us the patriot crap. RP has been fighting this same battle for 30 years...nothing will change within the GOP.:rolleyes:

Number19
02-03-2008, 05:40 PM
Now, quick, name ONE thing Ron Paul has got done in the Republican Party...quick now, JUST ONE THING.It took me a few seconds to type this, but - he got elected to Congress.

Russellk30
02-03-2008, 05:42 PM
If you register Libertarian it's completely useless. Libertarians will never win. Ever. The 2 party system is fine, it's just a matter of getting ethical individuals to run. I voted for a couple Libertarians last time and I realized I wasted my vote and would have been just as good not to vote at all.

Are you.... God?! Thank you for looking into the future for us. I guess that settles this debate. Alright everybody, no more posts regarding this subject. God has spoken and we all know what to do now. Republican for life!:rolleyes:

seeker1
02-03-2008, 06:59 PM
It took me a few seconds to type this, but - he got elected to Congress.

In thirty years as a Republican in Congress what effect has he had on Congress?

seeker1
02-03-2008, 07:07 PM
If you register Libertarian it's completely useless. Libertarians will never win. Ever. The 2 party system is fine, it's just a matter of getting ethical individuals to run. I voted for a couple Libertarians last time and I realized I wasted my vote and would have been just as good not to vote at all.

By exercising your free will and voting your conscience, you WASTED your vote?

Why because your candidate didn't win? Is that all there is to this, picking the winning horse?

Obviously, my conscience is clear for having written in Ron Paul and never voting for Bush or Kerry. Did I waste it? NO! Did I win? NO!

But neither did those losers that voted for Bush/Cheney. They're guilty of selling us out just to win an election. Our country is near bankruptcy, over 4000 of our children have died, more than 1 million Iraqi's are dead but.....

Woohoo you GOP loyalists beat that sorry Kerry. The republicrats beat the demoblicans. You make me sick.:mad:

Not you Richandler...sorry for the rant at your expense.:cool:

hillbilly
02-03-2008, 07:23 PM
Hillbilly

"Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our servant, not our master!"- Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson founded the Democratic Party. If you knew that you would also know that strict party affiliation and loyalty is a political flaw.

LOL.... I've been accused of being a Jeffersonian Rep more than once....

I guess if I were to label myself I'd have to call myself a Constitutional Conservative Crunchy Christian. I'd like to try & help to effectively return the Rep party back to it's more conservative roots.

Why is it that this one reply is focused on & no one has anything to say about the one immediately prior?


But you see.... it's not only from within that change can happen.

The collective "they" (the dems & reps that make up the majority of our congress & of course the 'elite') are coming at us from so many angles, not just from within is gonna work anymore. We need to all kiss & make up & realize that we need to tear this box apart from ALL SIDES! From within & without, accepting the unique different areas that each of us are uniquely suited. Some of us work it better from within (like me & you) & some work it better from without. and that's ok.

That being said, I have to say that as long as the people I've seen posting here really do change their voter registration back to Ind or Una or Lib or Con or whatever.... it does make it harder for those of us who are actively trying to make a difference from within.

For those who aren't quite sure:

From Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary (1931):
• Republic: 1. A common wealth; a state in which the exercise of the sovereign power is lodged in representatives elected by the people. In modern usage, it differs from a democracy of democratic state, in which the people exercise the powers of sovereignty directly. 2. Common interests: the public.

• Conservative: Conservative (a) 1. Preservative; having power to preserve in a safe or entire state, or from loss or injury or waste. 2. Respecting old institutions, methods, customs, and the like; adhering to what is old or established; not given to change merely for the sake of change; said of persons and their principles; as, a conservative physician. 3. Within safe bounds; moderate; as, a conservative estimate; also, adhering to sound principles; believed to involve little risk; not speculative; as, a conservative investment; a conservative step in opposition.(n) 1. A person or thing tending to preserve from ruin or injury; a conserver. 2. One who aims to preserve from innovation or radical change; one who wishes to maintain an institution or form of government.

The above definition is why I am a Republican & why I will stay one. The Republicans of today are not representative of that definition & I am to change my lil corner as best I possibly can.

But change needs to happen all the way around, not just within the Rep party.

HillbillyDan
02-03-2008, 07:25 PM
what's up hillbilly?

hillbilly
02-03-2008, 07:37 PM
what's up hillbilly?

Well howdy there HillbillyDan! Nice to see there's more of us hillbilly-type folk round here. :cool:

Sippin on some moonshine, typin away; and yerself?

HillbillyDan
02-03-2008, 07:46 PM
Got a few beers here meself. Enjoying my freedom, while I can!:D

hillbilly
02-03-2008, 08:01 PM
Got a few beers here meself. Enjoying my freedom, while I can!:D

Ain't we all?

;)

HillbillyDan
02-03-2008, 08:12 PM
I think we need to press this as hard as we can until election day in Novemeber. I'll be voting for Dr. Paul even if he runs on no party. After that, we can make plans for the next wave of taking these bastards out of office, or whatever it is that must be done.

hillbilly
02-03-2008, 08:19 PM
I think we need to press this as hard as we can until election day in Novemeber. I'll be voting for Dr. Paul even if he runs on no party. After that, we can make plans for the next wave of taking these bastards out of office, or whatever it is that must be done.

I think you're right. I like to think that Dr. Paul is perhaps helping to set the stage for Rand in 4 years. If enough of us get actively involved in changing the system (from within & without), it would certainly be the beginnings of some real positive change.

If enough of us take charge & get active now, it can happen in 4 years. Dr. Paul's message is resonating far & wide among voters of all affiliations. We need to capitalize on that.

If Dr. Paul does not make it through the primaries, I will be writing him in period.

All that being said, I'm well prepared for the upcoming & perhaps inevitable "run fer them thar hills!".

nebulous
02-03-2008, 08:26 PM
Libertarian unless RP gets the Republican nomination then I may stay with this party. I only recently registered Republican so I can vote for RP in the primary.

John P Slevin
02-03-2008, 08:29 PM
Wish you would reconsider, and here is why. You staying in the party, is the Neocon's worst nightmare

Utter nonsense. You walking away from the GOP is what they fear. They already know most idiots will stay.

Number19
02-03-2008, 08:30 PM
In thirty years as a Republican in Congress what effect has he had on Congress?That wasn't the question I responded to previously. But to answer your question, other than being a lone voice advocating Constitutional government, he has accomplished very little as regards to beltway politics. One thing he has accomplished is that he has refused to be corrupted and has survived to be the founding father of the Ron Paul Revolution.

FreeTraveler
02-03-2008, 08:40 PM
That wasn't the question I responded to previously. But to answer your question, other than being a lone voice advocating Constitutional government, he has accomplished very little as regards to beltway politics. One thing he has accomplished is that he has refused to be corrupted and has survived to be the founding father of the Ron Paul Revolution.

One other thing he has done is kept the hope of freedom alive for some of us older voters who have been admiring him for many years. He is the single reason I have remained even marginally involved in politics for many years. How could I not, when he was working so hard, so alone?

John P Slevin
02-03-2008, 11:11 PM
I wouldn't waste money on the Libertarian Party. They only care about the party and not about the overall picture. The Constitution Party puts the country above party affiliation.



All 3rd parties have stagnated because there are laws that actively work against them. Joining the Libertarian Party will do nothing but hurt any hope of getting 3rd parties on equal ground.

This last statement is the most self-serving, self-aggrandizing statement ever. You, sir, or siress, never actually have done a damn thing for ballot access ever, anywhere, ever, have you? So, why don't you shut your friggin mouth?

You have nothing to offer, no experience, no expertise, so, again, SHUT THE F UP! YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

i SPEAK AS SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN THERE, AND I NEVER MET YOU, YOU IGNORANT, SELF-SERVING ANNONYMOUS IDIOT.

josephadel_3
02-04-2008, 02:24 AM
Dear God, have you seen the 2004 Republican platform. http://www.ontheissues.org/2004_GOP_Platform.htm WOW! It's actually quite frightening. Socialism, fascism, and Christianity, and paradoxes like the death penalty, all mixed into one. YAY!!!:rolleyes: As Ron Paul supporters, I know most of you are cringing at the majority of issues on this platform. The Republican platform is one big confusing lie. They mix the truth with lies, just like Satan. YAY!!!

I am assuming this is the most recent platform, but I know for a fact the Republican party must have been more libertarian in it its platform in the past. With a platform like this, I don't think I can remain Republican, but a good point is made that we must change it from within. However, it's gonna be a pain in the ass telling people, "I'm a Republican, but I don't support their current platform," and then answering their questions. I haven't made up my mind whether to stay republican or not. I was previously unaffiliated, and I think George Washington was right about political parties, that they will only divide the nation. Now we have these jackasses supporting the republican party no matter what. annoying indeed. I would rather switch to unaffilated, but that makes itmore difficult to support Paulites. Gonna have to make a pros and cons list.

FreedomProsperityPeace
02-04-2008, 03:49 AM
I'll probably stay Republican. Dr. Paul has the right idea. We need to work within the Republican Party and take it over as much as possible.

The LP really hasn't done anything, and I don't see them doing so in the near future. They haven't even nominated a candidate yet!

Plus, I don't want to keep flipping back and forth between parties so I can support a RP Republican when one comes along.

BuddyRey
02-04-2008, 03:50 AM
I haven't fully decided yet, but I think I'm going to stay with the Republican Party, join up with the RLC, and start working on trying to change the party from the inside.

raystone
02-04-2008, 04:57 AM
let's say we are on average 10% of the voting power now of the Republican party,

has anyone with more expertise than me done any analysis on what power that translates to at the GOP local level, e.g. ability to be voted in as chairs, running as state congressional and senate levels, etc. ? keeping in mind we are ACTIVE members

Scribbles
02-04-2008, 05:26 AM
I think I'll stay Republican as it will facilitate my eventual running for office far more than a third party could.

The Republican party is tool to leverage us into office. The benefit with using the Republican party is that there is still a significant base in the party that likes the ideas of liberty and strict constitutionalism, they've just been led with 'carrot on a stick' tactics into statism and socialism. Additionally the political system is set up in such a way that it is almost impossible to be a third party or independant.

But don't think I'll blindly vote for any Republican, I only vote for candidates that support well... basically a Ron Paul Platform, since I'm in about +99% agreement with it.

Also I would like to point out that we should all be supporting the local, congressional and Senate RP platform candidates as much as possible. Most of these guys need less than our average money bomb to basically secure their campaign.

seeker1
02-04-2008, 08:02 AM
That wasn't the question I responded to previously. But to answer your question, other than being a lone voice advocating Constitutional government, he has accomplished very little as regards to beltway politics. One thing he has accomplished is that he has refused to be corrupted and has survived to be the founding father of the Ron Paul Revolution.

We all support Dr. Paul and his commitment to us in the Congress.

In the context of changing the Republicrat Party for all his effort and access, it is a big zero.

Because it is a lost cause.

The two parties are the same party and accomplish the same ends. More government and less personal freedom for us.

There is no changing the Republican party, it is too entrenched. It's like a condemned building, we tried remodeling, but the sad reality is, it needs torn down and started again.

That's the only future for this revolution. :cool:

Wendi
02-04-2008, 09:36 AM
I will never support a republican candidate again. They have proved this year, that they are the worst enemies to our freedom.

statesman
02-04-2008, 12:02 PM
take the party back!

raystone
02-04-2008, 12:10 PM
I will never support a republican candidate again. They have proved this year, that they are the worst enemies to our freedom.

so....if Rand Paul runs as Republican for President ? if someone like Murray Sabrin (R), endorsed by Ron Paul for NJ Senator ran in your state ????

clouds
02-04-2008, 12:29 PM
I'd rather not be affiliated with the Libertarian party either. If I switch, it will be to independent.

BillyDkid
02-04-2008, 01:01 PM
If Ron get the nomination I will dedicate myself to the GOP. If he doesn't, I can't change my affiliation fast enough. I'm sure I'm not alone, but the GOP would rather die than welcome us or listen to us.

BillyDkid
02-04-2008, 01:02 PM
I will never support a republican candidate again. They have proved this year, that they are the worst enemies to our freedom.
I could't agree more. and I'm not even a Christian!!!

BillyDkid
02-04-2008, 01:03 PM
This last statement is the most self-serving, self-aggrandizing statement ever. You, sir, or siress, never actually have done a damn thing for ballot access ever, anywhere, ever, have you? So, why don't you shut your friggin mouth?

You have nothing to offer, no experience, no expertise, so, again, SHUT THE F UP! YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

i SPEAK AS SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN THERE, AND I NEVER MET YOU, YOU IGNORANT, SELF-SERVING ANNONYMOUS IDIOT. Hey, I don't agree with the post either, but we are all entitled to our opinions. Go easy, bud.

Number19
02-04-2008, 07:05 PM
We all support Dr. Paul and his commitment to us in the Congress.

In the context of changing the Republicrat Party for all his effort and access, it is a big zero.

Because it is a lost cause.

The two parties are the same party and accomplish the same ends. More government and less personal freedom for us.

There is no changing the Republican party, it is too entrenched. It's like a condemned building, we tried remodeling, but the sad reality is, it needs torn down and started again.

That's the only future for this revolution. :cool:
I don't disagree with this, it's just that I do see the truth in the statement that if the Republican Party is to be reformed, this reformation has to start at the precinct level and that it will take a very long time - likely a decade or more. What I mean is precisely what you said in your last few words - the existing party needs tearing down and rebuilt from the bottom up.

Of course it can be suggested that we don't have a decade.

By the way, I've been a Libertarian activist and a Lifetime Member since 1979. I've never cast a vote for any candidate other than a Libertarian candidate, with the lone exception of RP. Another by the way, I reside in Brazoria County ( Texas Congressional District 14 ). I've had the honor and pleasure of knowing and supporting Dr No for a very long time.

CJLauderdale4
02-04-2008, 07:16 PM
However, I also feel we should takeover the Democrat Party as well, and attack from both sides. Call me crazy, but the Democrats have taken many of the civil rights, pro-privacy, and anti-aggressive war stances that resemble Ron Paul. Why not try to run as one of them, and vote the Constitution when in office??? I have NEVER been a Democrat, but would label myself anything to make a change for the Constitution in this country. I don't care what they call me - I know who I am.

See, in many counties in America, the lemmings are so tied to an "R" or a "D" that it really doesn't matter what you say. Democrats always vote for the "D" candidate, and Republicans always vote for the "R" candidate. Hell, as we know, almost all of them are the same anyway.

So, in areas that always vote Democrat, run as one. In areas that always vote Republican, run as one. Let's takeover the nation one Congressional District at a time. It's only 435 races, and we only need 218 of them for a majority. Plus, we would hold the purse-strings on the budget. Man this would be AWESOME!!!

AFM
02-04-2008, 07:24 PM
Libertarian

seeker1
02-05-2008, 07:00 AM
I don't disagree with this, it's just that I do see the truth in the statement that if the Republican Party is to be reformed, this reformation has to start at the precinct level and that it will take a very long time - likely a decade or more. What I mean is precisely what you said in your last few words - the existing party needs tearing down and rebuilt from the bottom up.

Of course it can be suggested that we don't have a decade.

By the way, I've been a Libertarian activist and a Lifetime Member since 1979. I've never cast a vote for any candidate other than a Libertarian candidate, with the lone exception of RP. Another by the way, I reside in Brazoria County ( Texas Congressional District 14 ). I've had the honor and pleasure of knowing and supporting Dr No for a very long time.

I used to live on Surfside Beach and had the privilige of knowing Dr. Paul and his family as well, as a member of the SOB's. We owned the dome house that sat almost in the water back then and my mom was the judge holding court on our deck on the weekends.:cool:

Flash
02-09-2008, 08:38 PM
I want to register Libertarian one day.

http://lp.org/ Look at their new logo on their site "welcome to your new home". May be its trying to tell frustrated Conservatives to join their party. Since Mccain and Neo-Cons are messing up the Republican Party.

The only thing I disagree about their party is their "open-borders" policy.

georgedonnelly
02-10-2008, 10:40 AM
one of the problems is the 2 party system. the duopoly has a strict limit on which ideas are able to become "mainstream". we need to break that duopoloy and let a thousand political parties bloom. it's more representative, more democratic. allowing a small clique of people to control the gate to political office is oligarchic.

Mesogen
02-10-2008, 11:00 AM
Im going to stay independent. I guess my voter registration will be Republican until I change it, but in all actuality I cannot stand the Republican Party and I have never supported it. (or the Democratic Party either)

Truth-Bringer
02-10-2008, 11:56 AM
If you register Libertarian it's completely useless. Libertarians will never win. Ever. The 2 party system is fine, it's just a matter of getting ethical individuals to run. I voted for a couple Libertarians last time and I realized I wasted my vote and would have been just as good not to vote at all.

If you believe you will never win...then you are right. "Can't never could do nothing."

You waste your vote when you vote for the lesser of two evils - because you still wind up with evil.

ArrestPoliticians
02-10-2008, 01:20 PM
Ron Paul has endorsed the idea of staying Republican. Dont go against his wishes.

Malakai0
02-10-2008, 01:38 PM
It's hard to say. The GOP is dying and it would be great if the RP Republicans picked up the pieces.


But if McCain is the nominee, I don't think I can stay republican from a purely moral point of view.

So honestly I don't know yet. The republican liberty caucus seems very promising though, so I'm leaning towards staying R and joining that.

ArrestPoliticians
02-10-2008, 01:48 PM
It's hard to say. The GOP is dying and it would be great if the RP Republicans picked up the pieces.


But if McCain is the nominee, I don't think I can stay republican from a purely moral point of view.

So honestly I don't know yet. The republican liberty caucus seems very promising though, so I'm leaning towards staying R and joining that.

If Ron Paul can stay Republican, you can stay republican.

The Machine
02-10-2008, 02:07 PM
I am a member of the Libertarian Party and will remain so. I will switch my voter registration back to Independant. I registered GOP this cycle to allow me to become a delegate in my state GOP Convention for Dr. Paul.

It's funny that the party--Libertarian--which initially exposed me to Ron Paul, is the one that is getting a lot of negative feedback in this forum. It's my understanding that he is still a card carrying member of the LP...go figure.

bermein
02-11-2008, 01:34 PM
Abortion is the main reason why I'm going back to the libertarian party. They have it right and Ron Paul, even though I like almost everything else he says, doesn't represent my views when it comes to reproductive rights. The below is from www.lp.org and is what I believe:

-----------------------
I.8 Reproductive Rights

The Issue: The tragedies caused by unplanned, unwanted pregnancies are aggravated and sometimes created by government policies of censorship, restriction, regulation and prohibition.
Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on both sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.

The Principle: Individual rights should not be denied nor abridged on the basis of sex, age, dependency, or location. Taxpayers should not be forced to pay for other people's abortions, nor should any government or individual force a woman to have an abortion. It is the right and obligation of the pregnant woman regardless of age, not the state, to decide the desirability or appropriateness of prenatal testing, Caesarean births, fetal surgery, voluntary surrogacy arrangements and/or home births.

Solutions: We oppose government actions that either compel or prohibit abortion, sterilization or any other form of birth control. Specifically we condemn the practice of forced sterilization of welfare recipients, or of mentally retarded or "genetically defective" individual. We support the voluntary exchange of goods, services or information regarding human sexuality, reproduction, birth control or related medical or biological technologies. We oppose government laws and policies that restrict the opportunity to choose alternatives to abortion.

Transitional Action: We support an end to all subsidies for childbearing or child prevention built into our present laws.
--------------------