I encourage you all to excerise your 2nd ammendment rights

[PimpBlimp]

up up and away

[PimpBlimp]

bump

[SWATH]

I've never seen an AK go for a cool G though.

[literatim]

Doesn't belong in Grassroots.

[hillertexas]

I just bought my first gun last week (9mm)

[PimpBlimp]

Doesn't belong in Grassroots.

:D

Could a mod move it to general politics.

[smartpeople4ronpaul]

"Guns don't kill people, guns kill dinner."- Dale on the cartoon King of the Hill

[krott5333]

I've never seen an AK go for a cool G though.

yeah they get up there. From the bottom of the barrel $300 Romanian WASR to a vietnamese full-auto for about $12k (plus the 200 tax stamp :rolleyes: )

[RedLightning]

Good post, wrong section but good post. Buy a rifle and learn how to use it!

[the_bee]

Doesn't belong in Grassroots.




YES IT DOES!

It belongs everywhere

[the_bee]

If we are to remain a free nation it is important for us to understand the true purpose of the 2nd ammendment.



No, its not about the right to hunt or the right to target shoot. Nor is it just about your personal defense. It clearly states that "being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


It is your duty as an able bodied American citizen to keep and bear arms to protect this nation from internal fascism and external threats.



What a concept, the militia is in fact you and me. It is every responsible and able minded citizen adult in this nation. We are an army of 150 million+







Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If any politician tries to disarm the American populace under the guise of security remember what these gentlemen had to say.








And now we get to the good part. The reason I made this thread is to encourage all Ron Paul supporters, if you haven't already, purchase and maintain a military grade rifle.

The Rifles of Patriots:

AR-15
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/shamash_bucket/ar-15.jpg
Place of origin - United States United States
Cartridge - .223 Remington, 5.56 NATO
Muzzle velocity - 975 m/s (3,200 ft/s)
Effective range - 550 m (600 yd)
Price Range: 500$ - 1,500$

Pros
Light weight and low recoil
High capacity magazines
.223 caliber has good distance
Cons
Prone to jamming if not kept clean
.223 caliber is not good for large game

More information on this gun:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15
http://www.ar15.com/

AK-47
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb188/shamash_bucket/ak47.jpg
Place of origin - Soviet Union
Cartridge - 7.62x39mm
Muzzle velocity - 710 m/s (2,329 ft/s)
Effective range - 300 m (330 yd)
Price Range: 300$ - 1,000$

Pros
Cheap and Reliable
Large caliber
Cons
Heavy and lots of recoil
Less accurate at ranges beyond 100 yards

More information on this gun:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/

These are my two favorite choices. I own both of these love them equally. But there are many many other good rifles out there. If your interested I encourage you first educate yourself online and then go to a gun show in your area and browse whats available.

And for more awesome 2nd ammendment quotes from the founders visit this page. http://www.uhuh.com/guns/2ndquotes.htm

I applaud this post Please do not move this post
This is right out of the constitution itself

[Delaware]

bump

I'm only 19, Whats the age limit for owning one of these rifles (automatic?).

I know in Delaware i cant legally own a handgun until 21, but i can purchase a rifle or a shotgun.

[arbnranger]

Less accurate at ranges beyond 100 yards



That depends on who is using it.

[PimpBlimp]

bump

I'm only 19, Whats the age limit for owning one of these rifles (automatic?).

I know in Delaware i cant legally own a handgun until 21, but i can purchase a rifle or a shotgun.

18 is the age limit for owning a semi-automatic rifle like those pictured above.

I'm pretty sure 18 is the limit for owning an automatic also but I would look up your states requirements first. You will have to purchase a tax stamp and go through the background checks.

For all you youngins, I would suggest taking a fire-arms safety course if you are new to shooting. Remember these are not toys.
http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/find.asp

And if you have small children or irresponsible people are around, always purchase a gun safe.
http://www.patriotsafe.com/

[damoncrowe]

The AR 15 is probably that best all around. It is a small caliber, but still a great gun for deer. I killed a doe at 300 m w/ iron sights. The carbine is a 600 meter gun while the rifle is an 800 meter gun. Also you can buy ammunition for around $6.00 per 20 right now. This is a GREAT gun to buy and fun to shoot. I recommend the carbine model personally and there is no end to accessories that you can buy for them. Everyone SHOULD save up and buy one before some tyrant comes along and bans them. . . again.

[Joe3113]

I applaud this post Please do not move this post
This is right out of the constitution itself

+1

I know this is controversial but I like the idea of a RP Militia. (With a plan btw)

If anything breaks out i'll bring reinforcements from Australia. :D

But seriously, get a military grade rifle and learn how to use it.

[damoncrowe]

anybody ever heard of bump-firing?

[Mr. White]

bump

I'm only 19, Whats the age limit for owning one of these rifles (automatic?).

I know in Delaware i cant legally own a handgun until 21, but i can purchase a rifle or a shotgun.

#1 There's a very big difference between ownership and purchase

#2 Class III firearms (automatic) are expensive and involve jumping through a few extra Federal hoops. If you're really interested google class III ownership.

#3 State laws vary, don't ever take firearm leagl-advice from anyone but the Federal and State law. Contact the BATFE in writing if you have any questions or concerns.

[Grandson of Liberty]

people can still own guns?

Had no idea, being in California and all. :rolleyes:

[BillyDkid]

A long time ago I saw a video where a guy made little 22 full auto. It looked so cool and like such a blast. I wish I could find it again. If it wasn't illegal I would love to make one. It is so bizarre that it is illegal to do this or even to distill your own liquor - what a bizarre excuse for a free country. or even worse it's illegal to grow and smoke a particular plant. One fundamental tenant of any free society is that you own yourself. Clearly, in the view of most, we don't even own ourselves. If the government can tell you what you can ingest and put you in jail for ingesting it - you are not by any measure free.

[Delaware]

Those rifles pictured about are Semi-automatic? Thats what i plan on getting someday (Colt AR-15)

I've been wanting to learn how to shoot for a while, my dad got a handgun about a year ago after he almost got robbed.

[kotetu]

Make sure you take classes on firearm safety and proper use - get trained before you purchase. Many firing ranges will let you use their guys for free if you buy a year membership and buy the ammunition from them.

I plan to get myself and my wife trained soon, and by the end of the year I would like to own a Glock 19 9mm pistol.

[MusoSpuso]

YES IT DOES!

It belongs everywhere

+1776

[PimpBlimp]

Can we get this stickied? Thanks!

[hvac ak47]

ak47 vs ar15 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbe4maIL0A0

ak47 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rKg9SoVyE9g&feature=related

ar15 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tWygoxV_ApM

ak47 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jn9WcjsSr_I

ar15 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DaqutEUpEto

[OddballAZ]

Gotta love the totally unbiased videos of the last poster. AK's are indestructible and reliable as hell. But the video with the guy with the jamming AR probably hasn't cleaned his rifle ever. The video with the exploding AR has user who obviously didn't know what the hell he was doing. A properly built and maintained AR is just as reliable as an AK, as well as has the advantage of being a far more accurate rifle.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0

Both rifles are great. The important thing isn't which one is better. The most important thing is YOU HAVE ONE. Even if you live in the nicest, safest neighborhood you need to have a firearm. With the huge number of stupid people voting for socialists like Hillary and Obama, Communists like Edwards, and Fascists like McCain and Romney we are going to lose our country to the hordes of stupid, poor, lazy and elderly people who think it's their RIGHT to live off of your income and violate your rights.

Become a firearms owner, get a CCW, join a gun rights group like the NRA or GOA and an local or state groups that support your right to own a firearm.

[damoncrowe]

Skip the NRA. They are half-ass so to speak. They have no intention of protecting the rights of Americans who are in turn securing their liberties from the government. Go with Gun Owners of America who have by the way endorsed Paul. Larry Pratt is the president of GOA and a very good man. Do check them out.

[762x54r]

Skip the NRA. They are half-ass so to speak. They have no intention of protecting the rights of Americans who are in turn securing their liberties from the government. Go with Gun Owners of America who have by the way endorsed Paul. Larry Pratt is the president of GOA and a very good man. Do check them out.


GOA!!!!!!


NRA is a sellout.

[SeanEdwards]

I endorse this thread.

It's my opinion that every able-bodied citizen should equip themselves with essentially a standard infantry soldier loadout. We should all be ready to muster as militia in defense of our nation, community, or selves.

[damoncrowe]

Now, who has an explosives tax stamp? :)

[SeanEdwards]

Anyone know where I can pick up a bunch of RPG-7's , cheap?

:D

Those Russians sure know how to design effective infantry weapons. Their stuff just dominates battlefields around the world.

BTW, from my direct personal experience, the M-16 series is incredibly prone to jamming, and requires a lot of regular cleaning. On the other hand, it's a very easy to shoot weapon and pretty accurate. I don't have direct experience with a kalashnikov, but millions of AK toting insurgents around the world can't all be wrong.

[damoncrowe]

Anyone know where I can pick up a bunch of RPG-7's , cheap?

:D

Those Russians sure know how to design effective infantry weapons. Their stuff just dominates battlefields around the world.

BTW, from my direct personal experience, the M-16 series is incredibly prone to jamming, and requires a lot of regular cleaning. On the other hand, it's a very easy to shoot weapon and pretty accurate. I don't have direct experience with a kalashnikov, but millions of AK toting insurgents around the world can't all be wrong.
I keep hearing that and perhaps for long term use without the ability to clean that may be the case. On the other hand the AR can be field stripped with the firing pin removed in minutes, so cleaning the action is a snap. The ballistics and accesories is what sells it. Also if, for instance, your enemy shoots the .223, you can pick up their clips:) I am told, though that if one wants to buy a great AK, they should consider the kalashnikov. I have heard that there is not a better AK than this one and yes, this seems to be the weapon of choice around the world. It should be a great gun for close combat!

[OddballAZ]

I keep hearing that and perhaps for long term use without the ability to clean that may be the case. On the other hand the AR can be field stripped with the firing pin removed in minutes, so cleaning the action is a snap. The ballistics and accesories is what sells it. Also if, for instance, your enemy shoots the .223, you can pick up their clips:) I am told, though that if one wants to buy a great AK, they should consider the kalashnikov. I have heard that there is not a better AK than this one and yes, this seems to be the weapon of choice around the world. It should be a great gun for close combat!

Check out this video. An 11 year old girl completely field strips and reassembles an AR-15 in 53 seconds... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irykjLjuKo8

[Dequeant]

Exercise my 2nd amendment?

Are you KIDDING? Mine is already RIPPED like freaking Rambo!

[sidster]

My friend just picked himself up one of these... really sweet looking
weapon. Lighter than I expected it to be .223 around $650 or so.

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/big/su16A_01.jpg

[Dequeant]

imho......that looks hideous. Almost feel like i need a tetanus shot just looking at it.

[pcosmar]

imho......that looks hideous. Almost feel like i need a tetanus shot just looking at it.

It ain't pretty, but it is inexpensive and made in the USA.
$665.00 Man. recommended retail.
I have read some decent reviews..
A good cheep gun.

[damoncrowe]

Kel Tec makes some good guns, but for another 100 bucks or so why not go AR? I have a buddy with a Kel-Tec SUB 2000 .40 cal. and he loves it.
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=86051

[pcosmar]

Kel Tec makes some good guns, but for another 100 bucks or so why not go AR? I have a buddy with a Kel-Tec SUB 2000 .40 cal. and he loves it.
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/popup_image.php?pID=86051

They can be found at below suggested retail. :)

http://www.impactguns.com/store/kel_tec_su16.html

Kel-Tec SU-16-A Sport Utility Rifle 223 19"
$489.99
I looked, it took me about 6 seconds.

[Dequeant]

Kel-tec does make good guns.....

However, i don't forsee myself lugging that around any time soon. If i had that and an AR come the "end of the world", i'm pretty sure i'd leave that one where it was.....

[andrewk78]

AK-47 7.62mm stopping power....A good shot will take someones head off or can knock them back a few feet.

AR-15(M-16) .223 more designed to injure/maim....The round will tumble, move around and wreak havoc on someones insides.

[JimInNY]

Anything is better than nothing. If you can't afford $6-800 for nice AR or AK, then spend $100 - $150 on any number of surplus military bolt actions, but for heaven's sake, get something.

I started out cheaply with a Lee Enfield SMLE .303 British. Over time I was able to get myself a .223 semi auto Ruger Mini 14 for about $400. Then I bought my first AR 15, and then a 2nd one, and then an SKS... I think you get the point. Start somewhere, but start today.

Now I have pretty much anything covered. .22 for rabbit hunting, a .243 deer rifle, bolt actions in military calibers, a heavy barreled .308 for reaching out and touching things far away... whatever the situation, I have the medicine.

But, I would feel fine even just owning the old Lee Enfield, because with that, I could acquire anything else I needed if it ever got down to it.

As for organizing? Forget about it. The second you organize anything it will be infiltrated. Count on it.

Nope, the way to go is 10 million militias of one.

Like the old US Army ad campaign, I am a militia of one.

[PimpBlimp]

Anything is better than nothing. If you can't afford $6-800 for nice AR or AK, then spend $100 - $150 on any number of surplus military bolt actions, but for heaven's sake, get something.

I started out cheaply with a Lee Enfield SMLE .303 British. Over time I was able to get myself a .223 semi auto Ruger Mini 14 for about $400. Then I bought my first AR 15, and then a 2nd one, and then an SKS... I think you get the point. Start somewhere, but start today.

Now I have pretty much anything covered. .22 for rabbit hunting, a .243 deer rifle, bolt actions in military calibers, a heavy barreled .308 for reaching out and touching things far away... whatever the situation, I have the medicine.

But, I would feel fine even just owning the old Lee Enfield, because with that, I could acquire anything else I needed if it ever got down to it.

As for organizing? Forget about it. The second you organize anything it will be infiltrated. Count on it.

Nope, the way to go is 10 million militias of one.

Like the old US Army ad campaign, I am a militia of one.

:D

My first rifle was a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54r made in 1942. You can get those for less than 100$ and ammo is plentiful and dirt cheap.

[GoDrNo]

IMHO anyone looking for a semi auto rifle to have would be best off dropping the money on an AK and using the extra $600-$1k to buy a pump action 12 gauge and 2k -3k rounds of ammo for the ak. At this moment 5.56 ammo is off the hook expensive because of the war in iraq and the higher quality casing required by the round, but you can still get 1k rounds of 7.62x39 for around $200, not to mention the reliablitly issues the ar-15 has compared to the AK. AR-15 is a fine gun, but it does require a lot of attention to detail as far as cleaning and keeping clean, on the other hand you can pretty much bury an AK in a hole in the ground, dig it up shake the dirt out of the barrel and fire away.

But going back to the main point of the thread, yes it is about time for us to make sure if it is ever needed we have the ways and means to defend ourselves if necessary. I sold my guns when I met my wife (needed to clear up some old debt she had). I am just waiting for our tax return and her to finish this semester of school (so I can go back to work, thank god) and I am definately picking up an AK, shotgun, and most likely a bolt action .308 rifle for longer shots and hunting.

[youngbuck]

anybody ever heard of bump-firing?

I've tried to bump fire almost every semi-auto rifle I've shot. Pretty fun stuff.... too bad you can bump fire from the shoulder, only from the hip. The result is just a full auto blast that's very inaccurate!

As far as the AK vs AR goes, the AK is definitely the more rugged, simpler, and reliable design. The AR has a few inherent flaws in its design that cause it to be less reliable. I've had many more jams out of various ARs (yes, even when they are clean and well maintained, and using good ammo) then I have compared to various AKs. I would much sooner put my life in the hands of an AK, than an AR.

Good original post btw!

[JimInNY]

:D

My first rifle was a Mosin Nagant 7.62x54r made in 1942. You can get those for less than 100$ and ammo is plentiful and dirt cheap.

I have one of those in the cabinet. They are decent shooters for sure. :)

Mine's a 42 too, I think.

[JimInNY]

I've tried to bump fire almost every semi-auto rifle I've shot. Pretty fun stuff.... too bad you can bump fire from the shoulder, only from the hip. The result is just a full auto blast that's very inaccurate!

As far as the AK vs AR goes, the AK is definitely the more rugged, simpler, and reliable design. The AR has a few inherent flaws in its design that cause it to be less reliable. I've had many more jams out of various ARs (yes, even when they are clean and well maintained, and using good ammo) then I have compared to various AKs. I would much sooner put my life in the hands of an AK, than an AR.

Good original post btw!

Aside from worn out mags not feeding well, I have never had a jam in an AR15 and I have a combined 6 or 7 thousand rounds through the two I own.

The worn out mags got rebuilt post haste. :)

However, now that South African surplus .223 has dried up, I would love to have all those rounds back in their battle packs. Don't waste the shit like I did. lol

[hvac ak47]

Aside from worn out mags not feeding well, I have never had a jam in an AR15 and I have a combined 6 or 7 thousand rounds through the two I own.

The worn out mags got rebuilt post haste. :)

However, now that South African surplus .223 has dried up, I would love to have all those rounds back in their battle packs. Don't waste the shit like I did. lol

That might be a record!!! :D

[JimInNY]

That might be a record!!! :D

One is a Rock River Arms 16", the other a Bushmaster lower with a Les Baer 24" bull barreled upper.

Maybe they're just good rifles? :)

Or maybe it is just that I take decent care of them?

I do clean them pretty good after use, but I go very easy on the oil. I also make sure the gaps on the gas rings on the bolt are spaced evenly.

[SWATH]

AK-47 7.62mm stopping power....A good shot will take someones head off or can knock them back a few feet.

AR-15(M-16) .223 more designed to injure/maim....The round will tumble, move around and wreak havoc on someones insides.

Old wives' tale.

It's true the 7.62x39 has better barrier penetration but the 5.56x45 has FAR better terminal performance.

read up.
http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm

[mmarcman22]

I love exercising my 2nd amendment rights by firing my Colt H-Bar .223 on a periodic basis

[youngbuck]

Only with good ammo and the correct velocity (barrel length is much more important with the 5.56x45 than with 7.62x39). If you have a short barrel and velocity isnt sufficient, then there is a dramatic drop in terminal performance.

[Defining Obscene]

I've tried to bump fire almost every semi-auto rifle I've shot. Pretty fun stuff.... too bad you can bump fire from the shoulder, only from the hip.To the contrary, I've seen bump fires from the shoulder. Its not easy but heres some demonstrations

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMoIocLvPSA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzAk-LKF6pE

[Mark]

I don't own a gun. And if I did I wouldn't write about it in public. (Reference New Orleans after hurricane Katrina)

If you have any powder, keep it dry fight club.

[kyleAF]

Maybe I will. Right now, I have just a bolt action 30.06... which will take down just about anything on the planet. And a pistol of course...

I've fired the M-16, AR version, AK-47, and many many more. I like them all, and the relative performances are pretty well described in this thread. An SMG isn't a bad buy, either, IMO.

One other difference is the very distinctive "bark" of the AK... and that the thing will pretty much always work even if you fill it with sand and crappy ammo.

[pinkmandy]

We're ready here. And people who don't know may want to stockpile ammo. I've noticed the gun shops have been "running out" and not getting in shipments...

[TruckinMike]

Careful now... the public can be easily swayed and manipulated into believing that "YOU" are the bad guy. The fellow that this news clip is about had NO interest in harming anyone, but the ATF and Media sure made him out to be a bad guy. He was only stock piling ammo and provisions. He may have been a bit over zealous in his concerns of a collapse, but the Food and ammo was only for his safety. Of course, one never knows, maybe we should be doing the same...Was he wrong? http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=24a_1188833456&c=1

the UN on weapons and AMMO.http://disarmament.un.org/cab/smallarms/presskit/sheet22.htm

the UN is systematically trying to disarm citizens of all countries. They're recent successes are part to blame for the current ammo shortage.

We are not only losing gun rights but Land rights as well... http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bd5_1186599170

We are at WAR, either we fight the "soft" war NOW, or we fight the "hard" war later. Lets not get discouraged, because a hard war will be much much worse. Keep that in the back of your mind when you don't feel like canvassing, posting signs, or donating money.

TruckinMike

[Kingfisher]

I 'm Kingfisher and I approve this thread and the GOA.

[Mr.mark]

something to note about ak and ar15

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ee9_1190725613

[RedLightning]

something to note about ak and ar15

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ee9_1190725613

They guy just shooting the ar-15 from the hip(at about 34sec) is annoying. The sights are there for a reason! :rolleyes: That and the ak-47/74 is pretty much the same design.

[andrewk78]

Old wives' tale.

It's true the 7.62x39 has better barrier penetration but the 5.56x45 has FAR better terminal performance.

read up.
http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm

I go by what I was told in the army. Maybe right maybe wrong.

[Jim_Karr]

The reason the 223 is used along with FMJ rounds is to wound and not kill. The concept is it would cause the enemy to slow down and it would take someone out of battle to help the wounded. If they was dead there would be no need to help. I think the 223 is to small of a round to kill with less than a perfect shot. I don't know about anyone else here,but when I point a gun at something my intent is to kill. I really don't think a 223 can penetrate a flak jacket or a bodt armor of todays. I would suggest useing the 223 for headshots or up to the 308 version in the AR. for body shots.

[mtuckner]

I go by what I was told in the army. Maybe right maybe wrong.

Andrew, conservation of energy my friend. The force of impact imparted will be about or less than the kick of the rifle. Most people falling back are just from suprise or reaction to a hit, otherwise most people just drop like a sack of potatoes.

[PimpBlimp]

I will be gone for 6 months. Someone keep this bumped.

[weslinder]

Even though I don't have the same love of mil-spec rifles that some of you do, I still exercised my 2nd Amendment rights this week. I purchased a Para Ordnance 1911.

Stock photo:
http://www.para-usa.com/new/images/product_photo/PX745SGRphoto.gif

I just wanted something bigger to go with my trusty G19.

[admar2]

I exercise my right every day. :)


the 2nd amendment is the one that makes all the others possible.

[maeqFREEDOMfree]

I exercise my right every day. :)


the 2nd amendment is the one that makes all the others possible.

agreed. and a hearty "welcome" from a "gun-nut"