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View Full Version : What I saw tonight canvasing tonight




andrewk78
01-31-2008, 08:35 PM
I really really underestimated the knowledge of some of the general public I actually got a few question asked that I couldn't answer. And I am turning to you all for some help.

1.
One of them was even though the national debt is at 9 trillion plus, how much of that is actual dollars and how much of that is estimated debt, inflation ect ect?
I didn't really know how to explain how the national debt was figured, and I was asked this a couple of times.

2.
Another was if we do take a non intervention stance with the rest of the world will we beef up security at our borders since we wont be fighting the "terrorists" overseas?
One the above issue I explained how the current foreign policy was the case of the "terrorist" and if we hadn't put ourselves in this position to begin with we wouldn't be in this position, and then much like Dr. Paul I rolled it into the economy, the welfare state, and how it is affecting education. I actual got this person to agree with me on this, but they said while that is all true what will we be doing to stop extremists from attacking us here rather then there in the mean time. This person said that while these are great ideas it will take at least a generation for people to stop hating America for the policy that is currently in effect.
To this I really didn't know how to answer other then to say that Dr. Paul believes in a strong national defense.

Quite a few other issues were brought up ad I was able to speak to most of them, but these two I was really at a loss.

GraspingForPeace
01-31-2008, 08:38 PM
Answer for number 2- Yes

Trigonx
01-31-2008, 08:38 PM
1. 9 trillion dollar debt is actual dollars as of todays dollar value.


2. Absolutely, those soldiers will be at our borders.

Sey.Naci
01-31-2008, 08:39 PM
Re #2, RP has said US troops, including border guards, should come home to defend America's borders, coastline, etc., that defense will therefore be stronger. The notion that US troops are defending other countries rather than America is what boggles the mind. There's no way that the country's defense could be weaker by bringing the troops back to US soil. It can only become stronger.

andrewk78
01-31-2008, 08:41 PM
Re #2, RP has said US troops, including border guards, should come home to defend America's borders, coastline, etc., that defense will therefore be stronger. The notion that US troops are defending other countries rather than America is what boggles the mind. There's no way that the country's defense could be weaker by bringing the troops back to US soil. It can only become stronger.

I agree 100%, but did not want to say something that I thought to be true only to find out that I was wrong. I think it is far better to say I don't really know then to make up something and have that person find on their own that I lied.

driller80545
01-31-2008, 08:42 PM
Is 9 trillion money borrowed or money printed?

SigurdVolsung
01-31-2008, 08:42 PM
As for question #1, the actual dollar debt we owe is technically 9 trillion, however if you add in all the entitlements the government owes people its actually 50+ Trillion dollars they owe.

Question #2, fighting "terrorists" overseas with regular military formations only brings more terrorists to the fight against us (blowback). If we spent a chunk of

That trillion dollars a year on foreign policy on border security I doubt we would have to deal with any terrorist acts on U.S. soil. In fact a sizable chunk of our

border guards and the people who train borders guards and national guardsmen defending the border are being sent to Iraq instead of protecting us. So how

does that make us safer. The problem of getting people to stop hating us now is very easy to answer. Technically only 2 foreign terrorist attacks on U.S. soil have happened

in our history both by Osama and both at the World Trade Center. All the other attacks have been on foreign soil against U.S. targets, mainly our troops. Our

troops being on foreign soil = recruits for extremists. But also gives them ready made targets. Do you really think Al-Qaeda has the wherewithal to create

another attack on America? If we spent the money at home, recruits would dry up, and it would be that much harder for them to try and get into the U.S.

Joel High
01-31-2008, 08:42 PM
9 Trillion is the actual debt. If you look at it from an accounting point of view is is closer to 42 Trillion. The 9 Trillion does not count our liabilities or our future debt. Like all the money this country is obligated to spend on things like social security and medicare in the future with no new sources of revenue and no plans to cut spending in other areas.

belian78
01-31-2008, 08:45 PM
well, as far as the debt is concerned, i wouldnt be the best to answer that. however with the national defense, it only makes sense that bringing home our troops will make us safer. we wont be spreading our intel, navy, army etc.. around the world. they will be here, protecting this country. we would still have intel like the CIA working at a level of capacity to ensure we'd know of a possible imminent attack.

UKMan
01-31-2008, 08:49 PM
I actual got this person to agree with me on this, but they said while that is all true what will we be doing to stop extremists from attacking us here rather then there in the mean time.

Ask them how many times extremists have attacked the US in the last five years?

Jae0
01-31-2008, 08:51 PM
Ask them how many times extremists have attacked the US in the last five years?

They'll just say no ones come after us because we're already over there.

CTAC
01-31-2008, 08:51 PM
9T is just a goverment debt. Total debt on all mortgages, credit cards, goverment is about 60T. And it's all owed to Fed. Unless we reform the Fed it will collapse and ruin everything. I'm not certain yet that there is still a chance to save this country.

Eponym_mi
01-31-2008, 08:52 PM
1. The national debt is over $9.2 Trillion....grows everyday. That isn't an estimate...it is actual debt. This link might answer some questions for you:

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm

2. Withdrawing from hostile areas will alleviate some of the animosity, but there is still a small possibility that people hostile to the US would try to attack us. However, Dr. Paul favors a strong defense, including gathering intelligence. So, it isn't like we'd have our guard down. Actually, we're totally unprepared NOW...our troops are overextended and our borders are porous. Bringing troops home would provide for better defense.

UKMan
01-31-2008, 08:52 PM
Remind people that the USA's de(of)fense budget is 47% of the defense budget spent by every nation on the planet. That kind of puts it in perspective a bit..

Highstreet
01-31-2008, 08:53 PM
I really really underestimated the knowledge of some of the general public I actually got a few question asked that I couldn't answer. And I am turning to you all for some help.

1.
One of them was even though the national debt is at 9 trillion plus, how much of that is actual dollars and how much of that is estimated debt, inflation ect ect?
I didn't really know how to explain how the national debt was figured, and I was asked this a couple of times.


It is all money owed either to the Fed, US citizens, or Foreign Nations. For instance we borrow $3 Billion a day, plus print money to cover the deficit.


2.
Another was if we do take a non intervention stance with the rest of the world will we beef up security at our borders since we wont be fighting the "terrorists" overseas?
One the above issue I explained how the current foreign policy was the case of the "terrorist" and if we hadn't put ourselves in this position to begin with we wouldn't be in this position, and then much like Dr. Paul I rolled it into the economy, the welfare state, and how it is affecting education. I actual got this person to agree with me on this, but they said while that is all true what will we be doing to stop extremists from attacking us here rather then there in the mean time. This person said that while these are great ideas it will take at least a generation for people to stop hating America for the policy that is currently in effect.
To this I really didn't know how to answer other then to say that Dr. Paul believes in a strong national defense.

Quite a few other issues were brought up ad I was able to speak to most of them, but these two I was really at a loss.

Paul would be fighting the Terrorists. In fact, he's one of the only candidates saying he would actually go after them. What he wants to stop is the wasteful occupation of countries and attacking countries that haven't attacked us.

Paul has a 3 pronged FP.

1. Go after the Terrorists.
2. Wipe out their Reinforcement/ Supply lines by removing the motivation. This is the basics for anyone who is in the Military. Every great leader in a fight knows the wisdom of this move. (I don't argue about blame and all that. This is more of an intelligent Military Strategy than anything else)
3. Strong National Defense. Bring many of the troops home in phased steps according to what Military leaders deem is prudent. Bring home National Guard, so that States might be able to defend their own borders again. We have a much stronger military if 500,000 of them aren't babysitting Democracies around the globe. Their paychecks being spent here would be a huge boon to the economy, like nothing these "stimulus" packages are offering. Restrict Student visas from nations that support terrorism. Enforce the border.

driller80545
01-31-2008, 08:57 PM
Is 9 trillion equal to the amount of new money printed?

jawrightbiz
01-31-2008, 08:59 PM
Here are a couple of articles to show why our military is needed here

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/07/sebelius-tornado/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22935996/

zadrock
01-31-2008, 09:00 PM
Here's a quick overview of all future obligations of the US Government as of 2006. The most recent updated number that I've seen is $54 trillion.

http://www.gao.gov/special.pubs/longterm/exposurenew.html

"Publicly held debt" is just the total of all the bonds we've issued, plus the present value of all the interest payments.

Z

Highstreet
01-31-2008, 09:00 PM
Is 9 trillion equal to the amount of new money printed?

No. 9T is the Accumulated shortfall from every year we are in the Red as a nation. Every year we run in the red, we have a Deficit. We have to either borrow or print the shortfall. It's hundreds of Billions every year, and then there's the Billions that go directly to War Supplimentals that are never shown in the Budget.

driller80545
01-31-2008, 09:04 PM
No. 9T is the Accumulated shortfall from every year we are in the Red as a nation. Every year we run in the red, we have a Deficit. We have to either borrow or print the shortfall. It's hundreds of Billions every year, and then there's the Billions that go directly to War Supplimentals that are never shown in the Budget.

So how do we know how much has been borrowed and how much has been printed. I would think this should be fairly important.

kyleAF
01-31-2008, 09:04 PM
One the above issue I explained how the current foreign policy was the case of the "terrorist" and if we hadn't put ourselves in this position to begin with we wouldn't be in this position, and then much like Dr. Paul I rolled it into the economy, the welfare state, and how it is affecting education. I actual got this person to agree with me on this, but they said while that is all true what will we be doing to stop extremists from attacking us here rather then there in the mean time. This person said that while these are great ideas it will take at least a generation for people to stop hating America for the policy that is currently in effect.
To this I really didn't know how to answer other then to say that Dr. Paul believes in a strong national defense.

Well, then we'd best stop pissing them off now! That way, one generation from now, they'll have grown up liking us!

I mean, did this person think about what they were saying? Bombing them now WILL NOT make them more likely to like us at all!

andrewk78
01-31-2008, 09:07 PM
Well, then we'd best stop pissing them off now! That way, one generation from now, they'll have grown up liking us!

I mean, did this person think about what they were saying? Bombing them now WILL NOT make them more likely to like us at all!

It actually seemed like a pretty valid point in whole to me. They heard non intervention and I think they just assumed that meant weak military, I didn't know specifics so I just gave the comment that Dr. Paul believes in a strong national defense.

cswake
01-31-2008, 09:09 PM
1.
One of them was even though the national debt is at 9 trillion plus, how much of that is actual dollars and how much of that is estimated debt, inflation ect ect?
I didn't really know how to explain how the national debt was figured, and I was asked this a couple of times.
This unfortunately is a loan of 9 trillion. There are some positives and negatives to this though, as shown on this site:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html

You can see that the Federal Reserve was the creditor for 40% of the debt in 1998. (Printed money!) As a private institution, it collects interest off the money it "borrows" to our Government, then promptly donates all its net profits back to our Government. :)

This number should be more skewed to foreign creditors and the Federal Reserve as of 2008.


2.
Another was if we do take a non intervention stance with the rest of the world will we beef up security at our borders since we wont be fighting the "terrorists" overseas?
One the above issue I explained how the current foreign policy was the case of the "terrorist" and if we hadn't put ourselves in this position to begin with we wouldn't be in this position, and then much like Dr. Paul I rolled it into the economy, the welfare state, and how it is affecting education. I actual got this person to agree with me on this, but they said while that is all true what will we be doing to stop extremists from attacking us here rather then there in the mean time. This person said that while these are great ideas it will take at least a generation for people to stop hating America for the policy that is currently in effect.
To this I really didn't know how to answer other then to say that Dr. Paul believes in a strong national defense.

Quite a few other issues were brought up ad I was able to speak to most of them, but these two I was really at a loss.

That is correct. We are breeding a generation of people who will hate "us". I'd reply with a question and a comment about Paul's policies: wouldn't it better to stop antagonizing them now so that we don't have two or three generations? In the meantime, Paul proposes using our money saved to go on the defensive and *secure* our borders and limit visas to prevent them from entering our country. (ie. No student visas to terrorist nations - how the 9/11 hijackers got in)

thomaspaine23
01-31-2008, 09:27 PM
I really really underestimated the knowledge of some of the general public I actually got a few question asked that I couldn't answer. And I am turning to you all for some help.

1.
One of them was even though the national debt is at 9 trillion plus, how much of that is actual dollars and how much of that is estimated debt, inflation ect ect?
I didn't really know how to explain how the national debt was figured, and I was asked this a couple of times.

2.
Another was if we do take a non intervention stance with the rest of the world will we beef up security at our borders since we wont be fighting the "terrorists" overseas?
One the above issue I explained how the current foreign policy was the case of the "terrorist" and if we hadn't put ourselves in this position to begin with we wouldn't be in this position, and then much like Dr. Paul I rolled it into the economy, the welfare state, and how it is affecting education. I actual got this person to agree with me on this, but they said while that is all true what will we be doing to stop extremists from attacking us here rather then there in the mean time. This person said that while these are great ideas it will take at least a generation for people to stop hating America for the policy that is currently in effect.
To this I really didn't know how to answer other then to say that Dr. Paul believes in a strong national defense.

Quite a few other issues were brought up ad I was able to speak to most of them, but these two I was really at a loss.



9 trillion is the "actual" debt right now. Estimated debt is ~53 Trillion (including medicare and s.s.) So each person in the US owes roughly 30 thousand dollars (on top of the taxes they already pay) and is estimated to owe roughly 170 thousand on the future debt (again this is on TOP of the taxes we already pay)




#2 yes, Paul has said repeatedly he want to secure our borders, as that is the army's constitutional mandate

InLoveWithRon
01-31-2008, 09:30 PM
I really really underestimated the knowledge of some of the general public I actually got a few question asked that I couldn't answer. And I am turning to you all for some help.

1.
One of them was even though the national debt is at 9 trillion plus, how much of that is actual dollars and how much of that is estimated debt, inflation ect ect?
I didn't really know how to explain how the national debt was figured, and I was asked this a couple of times..

The US CURRENTLY in in a national debt of almost $10 Trillion by the end of the year.. Over $9 Trillion now and growing.. More importantly, the national debt is in line for $58 Trillion.. And there's proof for this

Here is the US comptroller David WAlker stating these FACTS.. David WALKER is the ACCOUNTANT for America.. He IS the US comptroller !! Listen to what he says here about halfway through the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-16u9x3tfE

That video will answer all your questions.. Watch ALL of it.. Especially David WAlker talking from the mid point to the end. This video is all you need.. Just copy it and give to everyone while you canvass.. End of story..

InLoveWithRon
01-31-2008, 09:34 PM
I really really underestimated the knowledge of some of the general public I actually got a few question asked that I couldn't answer. And I am turning to you all for some help.

1.
One of them was even though the national debt is at 9 trillion plus, how much of that is actual dollars and how much of that is estimated debt, inflation ect ect?
I didn't really know how to explain how the national debt was figured, and I was asked this a couple of times..

The US CURRENTLY is in a national debt of almost $10 Trillion by the end of the year.. Over $9 Trillion now and growing.. More importantly, the national debt is in line for $58 Trillion.. And there's proof for this

Here is the US comptroller David WAlker stating these FACTS.. David WALKER is the ACCOUNTANT for America.. He IS the US comptroller !! Listen to what he says here about halfway through the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-16u9x3tfE

Who better to explain things than the ACTUAL COMPTROLLER for America?? Nobody is more informed than him.. HE IS THE ACCOUNTANT FOR THE COUNTRY !!

That video will answer all your questions.. Watch ALL of it.. Especially David WAlker talking from the mid point to the end. This video is all you need.. Just copy it and give to everyone while you canvass.. End of story..

Pete
01-31-2008, 10:08 PM
So how do we know how much has been borrowed and how much has been printed. I would think this should be fairly important.

The debt is 100% borrowed with Treasury notes. These are very popular investments for pension funds, etc., plus foreigners who take a lot of our dollars in trade (e.g., China, Japan, Saudi Arabia). These "T-bills" are sold to the Federal Reserve, which will often graciously create new dollars in exchange. The Fed then resells the notes through the banking system.

Most of the dollars the Fed creates are digital, via bank credits. In other words, the Treasury sells the Fed a note in exchange for a credit in its checking account, which it can then spend. Whether money is actually printed or not depends on demand for the actual bills at various bank locations.

Funny video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as3AYVzWmOI

Now here is what is shocking: Virtually every dollar in circulation has been borrowed from the Federal Reserve and we are paying interest on it. That's right, we are paying the Fed interest on money created out of thin air, that is nothing but a dilution of the original money supply of 1913.

jglapski
01-31-2008, 11:09 PM
As mentioned:

$9.2 trillion current debt
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/r...publicdebt.htm

$54 trillion future obligations.
http://www.gao.gov/special.pubs/long...posurenew.html

The $9.2 trillion is after the Federal Reserve monetizes the debt by buying bonds and paying for them via fraudulent bookkeeping entries.

The question of how much money the Fed produces depends on exactly what you mean by "money." This link will explain a little bit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply#United_States