Some conversion arguments... needed

[Lord Xar]

A friend says...

1. If we don't have bases all over, others will fill that vacuum

2. They don't mind having us there. They want our bases there

3. We have a responsibility to be there in other countries

4. Fall of the roman empire was because of corruption

5. We stabilize the world with our military might

*****************

Do you know about keating 5? "Yeah, but all politicians are corrupt".

Did you know that he worked for Amnsety? "No... but..."

So, uhmmmm.. he is intelligent too. He just bought into the need that America needs to control the world, for our own protection.

[midevilmark]

tell your friend:
1) Nobody has seemed to fill Switzerland, Norway, Brazil, Tonga, etc when the US has not set up bases in these countries.
2) Ask them to pull up the news stories about the Japanese folks who rioted after a few American troops raped a 12 year old there a few years back.
3) So if we are not there are we being "irresponsible"? Should we deploy troops to Kenya right now, or to the Sudan because there is unrest? Tell them to either go themselves or send thier kid. The trouble makers always seemed to be pleased with the ugly Americans when show up.
4) Devalued Money, and streched too far for the Romans.
5) Is the middle east now more stable, how about south east Asia during the 1960's. We don't need to be there to ballast the world, the people in the area will police themselves.

Just one other question, why do we have over 100 bases in the EU, can't they defend themselves with 23 countries? What does this cost?

[constituent]

A friend says...

1. If we don't have bases all over, others will fill that vacuum

2. They don't mind having us there. They want our bases there

3. We have a responsibility to be there in other countries

4. Fall of the roman empire was because of corruption

5. We stabilize the world with our military might

*****************

Do you know about keating 5? "Yeah, but all politicians are corrupt".

Did you know that he worked for Amnsety? "No... but..."

So, uhmmmm.. he is intelligent too. He just bought into the need that America needs to control the world, for our own protection.


1) vacuum, lol.... we're the ones that sucks
seriously though, get rhetorical w/ him...
"you mean like the people who actually live there?"

2) "you have a source on that?" or attack "they" explaining
that we are an entire world of individuals, as are those in other
countries. neither your friend, nor fox news, nor medved speak
for anyone (let alone everyone) in this other countries

3) "we? so go." or, "a responsibility to whom?"
they respond, "the kurds" or the "people of darfur"
you respond, "no we have a responsibility to the elderly
and ill who paid into the social security system but are
facing getting ripped off. It's bad enough as it is that
they were forced into giving up their money in
the first place, but now... now it just get stolen?
friend, we cannot afford to protect or secure everyone
else and ourselves, we must choose. who is more important
to you, america or uzbekistan?"

4) "you really think the decline of rome came down
to that alone? what i want to know, since you're so well-versed
in history, is which rulers were responsible for the corruption
that single-handedly destroyed one of history's largest empires?"

-xar, you and i both know that rome was neither built, nor brought
down in a day. in fact, there was a time in hx where-as a history
professor once wisely put it-sacking rome was the hip thing to do.
it wasn't worth a damn, but hey, it was rome!

5) "prove it"

[Lord Xar]

oh, I argued with him.. or had a discussion. I know about Roman History, so I was good with that. I was also fine with other avenues of conversation. I was just wondering, give his topics= was here a magic bullet i was missing.

He said that IF we pulled our troops out of various countries, japan - korea.. THEN they would have to beef up their militaries which would cause arm races and create an environment for war.

[Goldwater Conservative]

1. If we don't have bases all over, others will fill that vacuum

Who? Do you really think China or Russia will build bases in Germany, Japan, and Iraq?


2. They don't mind having us there. They want our bases there

Who? The Iraqi population wants us out, and the government has come very close to asking us to leave. The Middle East certainly doesn't want us there. If you mean Europe and Japan, some do, but that's because our tax dollars go into their economies.


3. We have a responsibility to be there in other countries

No, we have a responsibility to protect America. If it doesn't protect America, it's not the job of our federal government or military. Incidentally, having our military overextended around the world, leaving ourselves wide open here at home, and spending hundreds of billions of dollars a year that we have to borrow from the Chinese is making us less safe.

Interesting report that illustrates exactly what I'm talking about: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22935996/


4. Fall of the roman empire was because of corruption

And open borders and an overextended empire. We're doing all of that right now.


5. We stabilize the world with our military might

Iraq is a good case study of this. Before the invasion: stable and secular. After the invasion: on the brink of a bloody civil war and religious fundamentalists getting elected to parliament or forming militias, all while the price of oil skyrockets.


Do you know about keating 5? "Yeah, but all politicians are corrupt".

Not Ron Paul.


Did you know that he worked for Amnsety? "No... but..."

Amnesty is amnesty. No excuse. Illegal immigration will destroy our country financially and culturally, and aside from gun rights secure borders are priority one in a strong national defense.